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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Main Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts and neighborhoods of North Main Street and South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois stretching from Whitman Street at the north, to Montague Street at the south.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1900-1930
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Along Main St., Rockford, Ill. [B&W]
Description
An account of the resource
Black and white image with a woman in white on the sidewalk.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1940
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109(I).457
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Main Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
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Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Main Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts and neighborhoods of North Main Street and South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois stretching from Whitman Street at the north, to Montague Street at the south.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1900-1930
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Armory - Rockford, Illinois [B&W]
Description
An account of the resource
Black and white photograph of the Armory building with "March 7 - 47" written on the back.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Cameo Greeting Card Co.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109(I).577
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Illinois National Guard Armory
Main Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
State Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts of East State Street and West State Street in Rockford, Illinois. The majority of views cover the era of 1900-1930.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1990
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ashton Building, Rockford, Ill.
Description
An account of the resource
Corner building with street car and horse and buggies in the streets.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1908
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
78.175.2
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Ashton Building
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
West State Street
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Main Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts and neighborhoods of North Main Street and South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois stretching from Whitman Street at the north, to Montague Street at the south.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1900-1930
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
At the corner of State & Main Sts., Rockford, Ill.
Description
An account of the resource
With horse and buggies/wagons and a trolley in the street, C. F. Henry Clothing Co. is on the left and Rockford National Bank, with its "clock" sign, is on the right.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1910
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109(I).78
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
C. F. Henry
Main Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
Rockford National Bank
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PDF Text
Text
Bruno Stasica:
World War II Paratrooper
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
For Midway Village and Museum Center
6607 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
�Bruno Stasica:
I was born September 22nd, 1921. I entered the Army in 1942. I went to the
28th division. After that I had my application in for the Air Force. They finally
called me to get to the Air Force. I went
overseas in 1942. Sometime in February
of 1943 __?__ 3 or 4 times. First combat
was in [Mindoro] Saw a lot of action
there. After that we went to __?__. Saw
a quite a lot of action down there. It was
hot and humid and a lot of stuff that I
wouldn’t like to talk about what I saw.
From there we took a rest and went to
Corregidor. We jumped on Corregidor
it’ll be February 16th, 1945, just before,
nine years since I jumped on Corregidor.
I probably stayed there until March 2nd
’til MacArthur came on the island when
everything was secured. We lost about
227 men, about 700 casualties. From
there we went back to our base camp.
From there we spent about two weeks
__?__ to Nago. Some outfit was there
but they needed some help. We didn’t
parachute there; we just come out and
helped them. I was fighting there until
we left about March 25th. I got wounded
April 12th and that was all __?__. That’s
all.
WILL: That was hard to hit. That was
nothing but rock.
WILL: You jumped out at Corregidor.
That was when you were first coming
back to take over Corregidor?
STASICA: A hospital in there and everything. And little railroad going through
there.
STASICA: Yeah.
STASICA: Yeah, rock. That’s what
they call it, The Rock.
WILL: Where did you take off from?
STASICA: Mindoro. All the way from
Mindoro down there.
WILL: Okay. So they had all ready
landed on Mindoro and secured that?
STASICA: Yeah. They secured that.
WILL: They secured the airfield.
STASICA: Yeah, it was all secured. The
Japanese were in a tunnel. Big beautiful
town there, hospital and everything like
that. But that’s just the way it was.
WILL: Was the tunnel in addition to the
tunnels that were there?
STASICA: Yeah.
WILL: Before the Japanese took over?
WILL: Take over the Philippines?
WILL: Did you see any evidences of
the U. S. troops that were there before
the Japs took over?
STASICA: Yes. I jumped at Corregidor.
That wasit was hard. Everybody, I’m
sure __?__ because you know, the terrain was terrible.
STASICA: No, I didn’t see any troops. I
justThey were captured when the Japs
took over.
�WILL: And the Japanese had been
they were there for at least 2 years.
Something like that.
WILL: They’re just on the other side of
the International dateline. So there must
be 14 or 15 hours ahead of us.
STASICA: About 2 years.
STASICA: Yeah. That’s what it was
when I got the news. But there was
something I could __?__, When I got
back to the states I had malaria bad. Had
that about 3 or 4 times.
WILL: Before you guys came back and
took over.
STASICA: Before we came back and
took over.
WILL: You went back afterwards. You
secured Corregidor. You went back to
Mindoro.
STASICA: Mindoro. Stayed there about
2 weeks. __?__ [Nago], That’s where I
was wounded, April 12th. The day Roosevelt died. I was the last of my party.
th
WILL: Thursday, April 12 wasn’t it?
STASICA: April 12, 1945.
WILL: You were in the hospital here,
then?
STASICA: Oh, yes. Well, I__?__ sometimes I had no place to go. I went to a
motel up the street. I was sick __?__.
WILL: When you came back, where
were you in the hospital?
STASICA: I was in the hospital in Indiana. After I came back I didn’t go to the
hospital __?__. I just had nothing
here.__?__. Mustering out pay and all
that stuff. That’s it.
WILL: It was a Thursday, wasn’t it?
WILL: Where did you get discharged?
STASICA: I don’t know if it was
Thursday, was it?
WILL: They’re ahead of us.
STASICA: In Indiana, Camp Atterbury,
Indiana. I got out January 9th, 1946. I
was still in the hospital about a year. I
was in El Paso, Texas, __?__. They gave
us a 60-day leave. Come back and
__?__will give you another 30 days.
Well, I got transferred to Indiana. Well,
what else do you want to know? (Laughter)
STASICA: Yeah, I know. Three or two.
WILL: Let’s get started again. Okay.
WILL: One.
STASICA: I went to Jump School in
Fort Benning, Georgia in 1942. I took
my training there for a month. Learned
to parachute __?__. Jumped off a tower
and everything like that. __?__ Job be-
WILL: I think so.
STASICA: I don’t remember what day
it was. That was the day that I knewI
think we’re ahead __?__ two days.
STASICA: I got the news in the morning that Roosevelt died. I got hit in the
afternoon.
�fore I earned my parachute, you know it
took me 5 days to make it.
WILL: Where did you get your basic
then?
STASICA: Georgia.
wasn’t with that bunch because I came a
little later. They were there 30 or 40
days. I come back to New Guinea when
we all come together. That’s about all I
know about that. We lost a lot of men
there. We have a lot of reunions now,
every year. I went and had lot of fun
there. Anything else?
WILL: In Georgia?
STASICA: Yes.
WILL: So you went through basic and
then went into Jump School right after
that.
WILL: Well, sure, I don’t know what
all they want so anything.
STASICA: Yes. I went after training to
the 28th Division. So after I went to
Jump School they shipped me overseas.
STASICA: Well, I was following a
tank. There’s 2 fellows beside me. Think
they both got killed there. The Japanese
opened up so fast, I don’t know what
happened. All I know my gun exploded.
That was the last of me. Jumped in the
hole or went back to first aid.
WILL: Direct to
WILL: So the M-1 got hit.
STASICA: Pacific.
STASICA: __?__ it blew right off.
Some guys said, “You looked like the 4th
of July.” What else? I should have gotten
prepared. On December 7th, 1944, I was
coming out of the Coronado Theater. It
was on a Sunday, heard the news the radio, Japan had bombed Pearl Harbor.
Well, I said, “Oh, my Gosh, what am I
gonna do now?” That’s about all. I
guess. I waited until I got in the service.
I was working at Roper’s. A machinist
with a 60 millimeter shell. I was single
at the time. I know I had to go so I just
back in 1942
WILL: And that was directly to the
Philippines?
STASICA: Not to the Philippines. New
Guinea.
WILL: New Guinea, and you were there
for
STASICA: Oh, about a year or a year
and a half.
WILL: Before you went up to the Philippines?
WILL: So you enlisted:
STASICA: Yes.
STASICA: Yah. That’s about all.
WILL: What did you do while you were
in New Guinea?
STASICA: We fought there __?__
when they first jumped down but I
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jim Will
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Bruno Stasica
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bruno Stasica
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born September 22, 1921, Bruno Stasica joined the Army in 1942 and then applied to the Army Air Force, ultimately becoming a paratrooper. He was discharged in 1946. He died May 15, 2007.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
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1f425d9f73da289093d0ea84f09b53c1
PDF Text
Text
Carl Edward Lind
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
�Carl Edward Lind
World War II Veteran
United States Navy
My name is Charles Nelson. I’m a volunteer
with the Midway Village in Rockford, Illinois,
which is cooperating with the statewide effort to
collect oral histories from Illinois citizens that
participated in the momentous events surrounding World War II. We are in the office of Midway Village in Rockford, Illinois, interviewing.
Carl Lind. Mr. Lind served in a branch of the
United States Armed Forces during World War
II. We are interviewing him about his experiences in that war.
NELSON: Please give us your full name and
place of birth. We would also like the names of
each one of you parents and did you have any
brother or sisters?
LIND: My name is Carl Edward Lind. My parents were Charles L. Lind and my mother’s was
Anna O. Lind, maiden name was Lindvall.
NELSON: Did you have any brothers or sisters?
LIND: I had one sister a year and a half older
named Jean my other sister died before I was
born.
NELSON: Are there any details about your parents and/or about your family that you would
like to give?
LIND: Well, both my parents emigrated from
Sweden around the turn of the century. My father was a pattern maker and had his own business in later years. He died when I was four
years old. I was brought up in Chicago and
moved out here by marriage.
NELSON: This part here, entering into the military service. What was life like before the war
and specifically during 1941?
LIND: Before the war, most of my memories
are of depression years. We didn’t have it too
hard. My dad had died and my mother had a
small income from insurance money. As I recall,
the war built up but I don’t have too much
memory of it until about the late 30s. Being in
high school we started getting a feeling of the
war going on in Europe. Around 39 or 40
things started tightening up as far as availability
of goods. Rationing. I don’t remember when that
started.
NELSON: How did you hear of December 7th,
1941, the bombing of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese? If so, where were you and what were you
doing at the time? What was you reaction to the
response of those around you?
LIND: I was in Chicago, stayed overnight with a
couple of friends. On Maxwell Street Sunday
morning. Heard this blaring over the radio but I
didn’t pay much attention to it until I got in the
car to go home. Found out what it was all about.
We were I believe aware that war was imminent
with us involved in it. I reported to work at 6 p.
m. that evening. I worked a twelve hour shift.
There was a lot of discussion going on at the
timea time to talk.
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or
developed any feeling about what had been taking place in Europe and Asia.
LIND: Growing up in Rockford and being dominated by conservative Republican papers, the
Chicago Tribune and the Rockford papers, we
were pretty much against getting in the war
family and community as a whole. Once the war
started, patriotism dominated our thinking.
NELSON: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
LIND: Oh, yes, but don’t ask me to remember.
NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of Hitler’s speeches ideas or actions?
LIND: Yes, I did. I had one good friend that had
read “Mein Kampf” and he got me to read a lit-
�tle bit about it. I read part of the book I never
read the whole book. I got the general gist of
what he was all about.
NELSON: What events led your entry into the
military service? Were you already in the service
draft or did you volunteer?
tough coming out of civilian life. The food was
terrible, it was hot and the gulf coast atmosphere
in the middle of summer was not too pleasant for
a northerner. Survived.
NELSON: Did anything special happen there?
LIND: No, no it was a fast six weeks as I recall.
LIND: After receiving one six month deferment
at Ingersoll Milling Company, I volunteered
part of it was a feeling of patriotism. I had been
in ROTC in high school. Two friends of mine
had enlisted. These were the factors.
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or
developed any feeling about what had been taking place in Europe or Asia?
LIND: Yes, I believe I had. My feelings were
that we should stay out of the war until we actually got involved in it. I was really unaware of
the Jewish situation over there. I knew Hitler
was our enemy.
NELSON: When and where were you inducted?
LIND: I was inducted in Chicago, July of 43.
NELSON: Do you have any special memories
of this event?
LIND: Well, yes. I took the train into Chicago,
stayed over night and reported in the morning,
early morning. After swearing in, we were put
on a troop train three days, 2 nights went
down to Mississippi.
NELSON: How old were you?
LIND: I was 19.
NELSON: What happened after you were inducted?
NELSON: Tell us about all the training camps
you attended.
LIND: I went from there to classification at San
Antonio. Let’s back up. We went from there to
basic training up to Augustana College, college
training detachment. Then from there went down
to the Classification Center in San Antonio.
Took our tests and qualified for navigation training. Went directly to Ellington Field, Houston,
Texas. And went through pre-flight and advanced navigation school.
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or passes?
LIND: Not until that time, no. After graduation I
got an eleven day leave I believe it was.
NELSON: What do you recall this period about
the places that you were stationed, the friends
you made, the association with civilians?
LIND: Well, basic training, some of our groups
went on to CDT, I’d already made friendships
with and at Augustana College there I spent
three months. We lived in an old Fraternity
House twenty-five of usand we formed
pretty close relationships. We got together in 46
or 47 right after the war. For 25 years we had
reunions maybe five of them in Rockford,
Illinois. We were all from the mid west and still
keep in touch with several of these friends.
NELSON: What was you military unit?
LIND: I reported down there to ___?___Field,
Mississippi for basic training.
LIND: Is this overseas?
NELSON: What did you think of the training?
NELSON: I would say, probably you were in
the Air Force, right? What were your assigned
duties?
LIND: The training? Well, I guess I figured the
training was necessary. Living conditions were
�LIND: I was a navigator. After graduating I was
assigned to crew training in Westover Field,
Massachusetts. We trained on a B-24 and then
spent about three months there actually. Then
we were assigned a brand new plane and flew
overseas in the winter of 43. Left in December.
Flew the North Atlantic route over Labrador,
Greenland, Iceland and down to England,
Northwest Africa and over to southern Italy.
NELSON: You were still assigned as a navigator?
LIND: Yes.
NELSON: What did you think of the nation’s
war effort up to this point?
LIND: Having worked at Ingersoll Milling
which was fully involved in wartime machinery,
I was quite enthused about what we were doing.
And I was enthused about my training and the
efforts we were making. It seemed that the war
was dragging on for an awful long time. We
were, I should say gung ho about the whole
thing.
NELSON: If you did not immediately enter the
combat zone, where did you go before entering
combat?
LIND: As I said, we went over the North Atlantic route and were immediately assigned upon
arriving in Italy to the 465th Bomb Group, 738th
Squadron.
NELSON: Tell us about your experience entering you first combat zone.
LIND: Well, we had an exciting trip over there.
Our first mission we flew up into Austria actually. Our first mission we had a runway problem
on the bomb run turned back. The mission was
64 below Fahrenheit. Outside of that the mission was pretty normal.
NELSON: Can you list for us in order of occurrence all subsequent action in which you were
involved? The high lights, I would say.
LIND: Well, I flew 24 missions, altogether
23 of them with my own crew. We had a few
harrowing experiences. I would say that 70% of
them were up over the Alps into southern Germany and Austria, Czechoslovakia. I did not see,
personally, any German aircraft in the air, being
over there during the last six months of the war.
We had good fighter coverage the whole time
but we did suffer from flack a few times. One
time we had one engine knocked out. Another
one was leaking oil real bad. The pilot asked for
a heading to Switzerland and I decided after a
few minutes that we were going to make it back
over the Alps, so we turned back. We lost very
few crews out of our squadron. I believe mainly
because we did not have the enemy aircraft attacking us, as was done in the early part of the
war.
NELSON: You didn’t have any casualties before?
LIND: No, outside of frozen feet. The radio operator was awarded the Purple Heart for this.
NELSON: How cold did it get while you were
up there?
LIND: 64 below on our first mission. It was not
anywhere near that as we had electrically heated
suits, electrically heated gloves, and shoes or
slippers we slipped inside of our boots.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change as
combat continued?
LIND: No, I think most fellows would say that
they were scared as heck on bomb runs, encountering any enemy opposition but most of us had
the feeling we would get back.
NELSON: Did you write many letters home?
LIND: Yes, I wrote, mostly to mother and sister
at home two to three times a week. And to other
friends in the service occasionally.
NELSON: Did you receive many letters and/or
packages and if so how often? What type of
things did you receive in packets?
�LIND: Well, we did receive some literature
from home a couple of books and candy a
couple of times. I remember getting two boxes
of Hershey bars one time, homemade cookies. I
received a book on the Italian language from a
friend in Rockford and some clothing articles.
NELSON: Did most of the other men write or
receive letters?
LIND: Yes.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of friendship with many or some of your combat companions?
NELSON: Tell us what the other men did to
celebrate America’s traditional holidays such as
Thanksgiving and Christmas.
LIND: Well, I am sorry to say that our Christmas, when we first arrived in Italy was not
something I brag about. We had just arrived a
few days before Christmas. We were assigned to
tents and our crew got together to have a little
social blowout on Christmas Eve. It was raining
steady outside and I think being over there in
Italy and being away from home the second time
at Christmas we kind of let loose with an unusual celebration.
NELSON: When did you return to the U. S.?
LIND: Definitely with our crew members.
NELSON: Have you remained in contact with
any of your World War II companions?
LIND: Yes, my co-pilot especially. He lives in
Waukegan, Illinois, and I see him several times
a year. We have had been together for reunions. Our squadron has reunions now. This will
be the sixth one this year, I believe.
NELSON: Prior to the end of the war, were you
aware of any civilian concentration camps that
existed? If so, please explain how you learned
about them and how much you knew at that
time.
LIND: Well, we knew they existed. I don’t recall that we were told where they were. A friend
of mine was in a prisoner of war camp near Vienna and found out later that he had been working on marshalling the yards that we actually
bombed.
NELSON: What was the highlight occurrence
of your combat experience or any other experience as you can remember?
LIND: Oh, I would say receiving my wings and
graduating as a navigator, receiving my 2nd Lieutenant rating. Probably the most exciting time
was on that one mission where we had an engine
knocked outwe were heading for Switzerland
throwing ammunition and other things out of the
plane to save weight.
LIND: Returned in June of 45.
NELSON: What happened when you arrived in
the U. S.?
LIND: We landed in Columbia, South Carolina,
as I recall. Very happy to be there. We were almost immediately given leave to go home. And
arriving back in Camp Grant in Rockford I was
met by my mother and sister and my best friend
that had been over there as a prisoner of war.
NELSON: Please tell us about your highest military rank and your decorations especially you
campaign decorations.
LIND: Well, I did receive a 1st Lieutenant rating
over in Italy, campaign ribbon for several different theaters of war and also an air medal with
one oak leaf cluster.
NELSON: This is in regard to return to civilian
life. How did you get along with the men with
whom you had the greatest contact in the service?
LIND: While in the service. I had no problems. I
was probably a little bit of a loner. I didn’t cause
any trouble. I, for the most part, got along great.
NELSON: Were there things you would do differently if you could do them again?
�LIND: That’s kind of a tough question to answer. Things went so fast for me. We did not
spend any time waiting around once I got in the
service. It was boom, boom, boom within one
year I had my wings.
LIND: Well, I was surprised I guess but I felt it
was a thing we had to do.
NELSON: What was the most difficult thing
you had to do during your period of military service?
LIND: No. I think we had to do it to save an
awful lot of American lives even though civilians were killed over in Japan.
LIND: I suppose just flying combat missions.
NELSON: When and where were you officially
discharged from the service?
NELSON: Is there any one thing that stands out
in your most successful achievement in military
service?
LIND: I feel in general that I did a good job as a
navigator that I was trained for. I received compliments from my pilot and co-pilot. We never
had any serious navigation problems.
NELSON: How did you hear about VE Day and
what was your reaction to it?
LIND: I was on a small train going through Alabama being transferred to Tampa, Florida, to
Barksdale Field, Louisiana. We were made
aware of it by a fire engine in a small town with
a big bannerthe war was over. We would liked
to have had a club car or something to go in and
celebrate. That was it. The next morning arriving
at Barksdale Field, we went to report. There was
nobody to report to. They had been out all
nightcarousing, I guess. Celebrating.
NELSON: How did you learn about VJ Day and
what was your reaction to it?
LIND: I got you mixed up. That was VJ Day
that I learned about on the train. VE Day, we
were over there in Italy and were sent to Rome
for a four day rest leave in May and learned
there the end of the war and the capitulation of
the German army and northern Italy at that time
and knew the war would soon be over. I was
back on the base when the war was over but we
purely expected it real soon.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the use of
the atomic bomb when it was first used against
Japanese civilians in August of 1945?
NELSON: Has your opinion changed in the last
fifty years?
LIND: I was discharged at Barksdale Field in
Louisiana.
NELSON: Do you remember the date?
LIND: It was right at the end of August of 45. I
had two weeks leave, as I recall, and started at
Beloit College as soon as I got home still on my
two weeks leave.
NELSON: Do you have any disability rating or
pension?
LIND: No.
NELSON: Do you have any opinions or theories about the nation’s military status or its policies?
LIND: No I can’t say that I do. I feel that we
have spent too much money on military but that
may have been a necessary evil.
NELSON: Do you have any contact with the
Veterans’ Administration?
LIND: Well, I still have my veteran’s insurance
policy. Just through that. That’s my only contact.
NELSON: You’ve never been in a VA hospital
or anything like that.
LIND: No.
NELSON: Would you like to tell us how your
family supported you during your military life.
�LIND: My mother and sister certainly didn’t
want to see me go into the service but they realized the situation and kept sending me letters
and packages. I had a lot of warm support from
them.
NELSON: Over the subsequent years, what has
this support meant to you?
[transcript ends abruptly]
�
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Carl Edward Lind
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Carl Edward Lind
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born about 1924, Carl E. Lind enlisted in the Airforce as navigator in July 1943. He was discharged in June 1945. Carl died January 9, 2019.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
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bc3ffa388bd7e975281fb19dd07b967c
PDF Text
Text
Charles Nelson
European Theater
World War II
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61073
Phone 815 397 9112
�Charles Nelson
We are at Midway Village, Rockford, Illinois.
Midway Village is cooperating with the
statewide effort to collect oral histories from
Illinois citizens who participated in the
momentous events surrounding World War II.
Charles Nelson:[My father’s name] was Otto
William Nelson and my mother's name was
Elvira Nelson. They were farmers out in the
Midwest, Cook County, Nebraska. During the
depression and through all of the dust storms,
they finally gave up and moved to Chicago back
in 1937.
Robert Nelson: Where did they come from?
CN: Both of them came from Sweden.
RN: In what year?
CN: My dad came a little bit before - I would
say about in 1916 or 1917. I don't remember
exactly when my mother came here.
RN: What thoughts did you have about the war
before United States became involved in the
conflict?
CN: I read a lot of articles about it in
newspapers and on the news radio about what
was happening in Europe and Asia. I knew that
eventually I probably would have to serve.
RN: How did you hear about the December 7th,
1941 bombing of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese?
CN: On that Sunday morning I was going over
to a friend of mine who lived about a half block
away. I was going down the alley and he came
out of the back door and hollered at me that the
Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor.
RN: What was your reaction and response at the
time?
CN: Well, I was very surprised and immediately
thought we'd get into it. We would just have to
wait and see what happens.
RN: Do you have any brothers or sisters?
CN: I have one sister. Her name is Annie.
RN: Are there any details about you parents or
your family that you would like to give us?
CN: They were both hard working immigrants
that tried to make a decent living and that
against terrific odds most of their lives. But they
always tried to make a good home for their
children.
RN: What was life like for you before the war?
Specifically back then in 1941? Where were you
working and what were you doing?
CN: Well, I got out of high school in 1940. It
was very difficult to get work in Chicago at that
time, so I was able to find a job at the Kraft food
Company where I worked for a year. As the war
progressed I was able to get a job in a defense
plant. I was able to ___?___.
RN: Did you have any feelings or had you
developed any opinions as to what was taking
place in Europe and Asia at that time?
CN: I think most of the young people at that
time were very concerned as to what was
happening in Asia and I think most of us
probably realized we'd have to get involved in it
right away.
RN: Do you recall reading newspaper accounts
of Hitler's aggression in Europe?
CN: I think most of us were knowledgeable
about what happened probably through the news
reels and the movies and the radio.
RN: Do you have any knowledge of Hitler's
speeches, ideas or actions at the time?
CN: Well, I thought the guy was crazy.
�RN: What events led to your entry into military
service?
CN: Well, like I said before, I was working at
this company in Chicago and then I go a 1A
Classification which meant that I would have to
go down and get involved with the draft. My
company gave me 180 days deferment because I
was working on something essential for the war
effort. After that was over I had a deferment for
120 days. In the last deferment I got 60 days.
Then I decided that since I had 60 days, it would
be a good time to get married. So my fiancée,
Marcella, and I decided to get married rather
than being apart. Then, I can't remember the
reason, I got an extension and after that a 6
months deferment because I was considered
valuable where I was working.
so I thought I'd have to take these tests again.
The captain asked if anyone had taken this test
before so I raised my hand and said that I had.
He said, "How come you're here again"? I told
him my story and asked for the name of the
person that did this to me. I told him and he
called the guy up and chewed him out right
there. Then he said "Don't worry. You're in the
Air Force".
RN: Well, what did you think of your trainingyour basic training?
CN: It was awesome for a young civilian just out
of high school. Hadn't been out of high school
too long. But you make it and do it.
RN: Did anything special happen to you when
you were there?
RN: What kind of defense plant was this?
CN: It was a screw company. They were making
all kinds of spools and bolts for different
customers that were probably using this in the
defense effort.
RN: When and where were you inducted?
CN: In Chicago, oh, I'd say it was in the middle
of December of 1942.
RN: What can you remember about the event of
being inducted?
CN: Well, at that time they were looking for an
awful lot of military people. I had always been
very interested in the military and such things so
I volunteered to get into the Air force. I took my
test then and passed. I was given a physical and
passed. That was normally 64 of the grade with
the tests we had to take. So then I was supposed
to report to (I think I was supposed to report at 8
o'clock to the staff sergeant. For some reason or
other I was a little late and he asked me what
time I was supposed to be there. I said around 8
o'clock. He said we don't mean around 8 o'clock,
we mean 8 o’clock; therefore you're out of the
Air Force and into the Infantry. So I was really
disappointed about that. Then I had to report to
Fort Sheridan in January 17th of 1944. I reported
to a room that was giving tests for the military
CN: No. the only thing I can remember was that
we went down to Miami Beach. We stayed in
real nice hotels rather than bivouac, and, like I
say, it was in January and 93-94 - beautiful
climate down there.
RN: You were stationed at Fort Sheridan and
taking leave in Miami?
CN: No, we were just at Fort Sheridan a few
days before they put us on a train for an
overnight ride and we went to Miami Beach.
The next morning we arrived at Miami Beach
and that's where we started basic training.
RN: What fort was at Miami Beach?
CN: I was right down on the beach where the
hotels were. The government was taking over
most of the hotels. We had different flights
occupying the different hotels. That's where we
stayed.
RN: What was your military unit?
CN: The military unit was the Army Air Force.
RN: Had you been assigned to any duties at this
point?
�CN: No, I hadn't. There was just a lot of
instructions. How to handle a rifle and that sort
of thing, and military . . .
RN: No flying at this point?
CN: No, no flying at this point. From Miami we
were sent to Kingman, Arizona. From there we
got into flying and also got into shooting at
targets and aircraft recognition which pertained
to being a gunner. We also had to be very
familiar with the different caliber of machine
guns. In fact, we had to know that so well that
we had to detail strip it and then blindfolded put
it all back together again without looking at it.
RN: What is detail stripping?
CN: Well, it was all the parts in the machine. I
can't remember how many parts there were.
Then after that when it's all taken apart, you'd
have to pick up each piece and put it back
together again while blindfolded.
RN: How long were you in Kingman?
CN: I think around Kingman maybe to about the
middle of the summer. Then we were sent back
to Florida to airplanes and that's where we met
our crew and where we officially met all the
pilots we were to fly with. We were with air
force pilots that had military gunnery training
and had to fly in formation and to get familiar
with each other's jobs. That was a lot of training.
Then we went overseas.
RN: When did you go overseas?
CN: I went overseas in November of 1944. We
flew to Georgia and then went down to
Savannah to pick up army airplanes (B17
bombers). Then flew on to Newfoundland and
then went up. The weather was real bad so we
stayed at the Newfoundland base for a month.
While we're at Newfoundland we had to guard
the air force planes every night. We had to sleep
on the plane and guard it. We continued to do
this and this went on for 30 days, guarding it.
We finally got decent weather to go, so 12
planes and the crew started toward England.
Eleven of us landed there and I don't know what
happened to the 12th airplane. He might have
had to turn around and go back.
RN: What did you do once you arrived in
England?
CN: We actually landed in Shetland, Scotland.
We were only there, I think, around 24 hours.
Then we went down to the mess hall, didn't like
to see the ___?___. Then they put us on a train
and sent us down to Norwich, England. From
there we went to our base in a little town named
___?___. Our base was amongst those three
little towns.
RN: What did you think of the country's war
efforts up to this point?
CN: I was very impressed. There were mistakes
but considered that this was the first time in this
war, we had to start from scratch. By the time I
got involved, I thought they were thoroughly
organized and we had ___?___ fighter pilot as
an instructor. The most ironic part of it is, he
was a German. He flew for the German Air
Force in World War I AT-17 Cessna Bobcat.
While we were at Fort Sumner, New Mexico, on
the 23rd of May, 1944, that I received my wings,
silver wings.
CN: I think when we first got involved in it, we
didn't realize that Russia was going to be
involved with us. As we got into more missions,
we realized that it would take a lot of ___?___ to
stay alive. I think we resolved the fact that, if
possible, we wouldn't get hit. But we always had
hope and a lot of courage to cheer us.
RN: What was it like in the airplane?
CN: Inside the airplane, it's like being in an
airplane except that we didn't have any extra
space. It was--it had no heat in there except
electric heat. Each individual was assigned a
heated suit, heated shoes, heated gloves. Of
course, we had clothing on top of that. The
temperatures we put up with was down as low as
55° below zero so if you lost a glove you'd get
frost bite immediately, so we had to be cautious
about the. Inside the airplane on the windows a
lot of frost would form so you had to continually
�scrape the frost off the window. In fact, also
oxygen--we had to have a lot of frozen water
that would form on the mouth at the mark that
would look like ___?___. So there were a lot of
things that could happen in an airplane that we
hadn't ever counted on. Without oxygen you
didn't--if you didn't have any oxygen, you could
get depressed by the lack of it.
RN: Did you use the guns on every mission?
me a bottle of wine in an unbreakable bottle.
Sometimes I'd pass the bottle around and by the
time it got back to me, it was empty. (laughter)
RN: Did most of the men write and received
letters?
CN: I didn't know anybody that didn't. I know in
my barracks they all received letters and
packages from home.
CN: No. There were some missions that there
were times we didn't see any fighters. They
might have been in the area but they didn't
necessarily attack our ship. But we were always
waiting for them.
RN: How many people lived in you barracks?
RN: How long did a mission last?
RN: So the entire crew stayed together there?
CN: The mission would last anywhere from 5
hours to 8 hours long.
CN: No, the officers had their own place.
Officers stayed there and enlisted men stayed in
their place.
CN: We had two crews that lived there. In my
barracks we had Lt. ___?___ and Lt. ___?___.
So the entire crew stayed together there.
RN: Did you write many letters home?
CN: I tried to write every day. It depended on
how much time. Some days we would fly like 2
days straight. If you got up at 2 in the morning
and you came down and had breakfast. Then you
would have to go to a briefing and then you'd
have to go to the airplane and to out on a
mission. By that time it would be 6 or 7 in the
morning. When you got back in the afternoon
there were many things you would have to do.
Sometimes you didn't have time to write but I
did try to write often. I used to receive an awful
lot of letters from friends, relatives. Got letters
from my sister and wife.
RN: Were letters censored?
CN: Yes, the letters were all censored and the
letters you wrote were censored by ___?___.
RN: How about the letters you received?
CN: I don't remember them being censored.
RN: Did you get packages also?
CN: Oh yes. We used to get packages from my
mother all the time. In fact sometimes she sent
RN: I see. Did you form close bonds of
friendship with some of your comrades?
CN: I think so. We still get together. There are
things we can do (have a reunion. So yah, there's
interest.
RN: Prior to the end of the war were you aware
of any civilians in concentration camps?
CN: I don't know. I don't think I did.
RN: What other highlights or occurrences do
you remember about your war experiences?
CN: We were talking about the conditions in the
airplane. Of course, we're flying up around
27,000 in the air formation probably ___?___
airplanes. The conditions are very bad and we
had a 2nd Lt. who ___?___ what we called
___?___, and we had oxygen checks about every
10 minutes. He was making sure we are getting
the required oxygen which we had to have to
exist. On one oxygen check I didn't respond
because one of my electric heater gloves had
caught on fire. Well, we called them fires. In the
attempt to put the fire out, I had disengaged my
extension and I also disengaged my oxygen
�which I wasn't aware of. Of course, as soon as I
didn't respond then the Lt. Came back to see
what was the problem. He went back to get an
oxygen bottle and plugged in the oxygen but by
that time I was just kind of passing out. You
could exist about 5 minutes up there without
oxygen. So I was very lucky I was able to pull
through that.
we were very happy about that. When we were
in Newfoundland ___?___ and myself, we cut
down two Christmas trees and put them in the
plane. We took these trees back to England with
us and set them up outside the orderly room and
then ___?___. So we came out and we were all
given gifts.
RN: In Newfoundland?
RN: Did you ever get hit by a missile?
CN: No, this was in England.
CN: Well, every time you fly they'd shoot flack
at you. You'd always end up with a lot of holes
in the airplane but fortunately we were never
really hit. But we had a lot of close calls. Lot of
collision close calls because you'd fly in such
tight formation that you could get into flack. A
lot of airplanes were going up and down and
sideways so a lot of planes just hit each other
and both would go down. We had a lot of close
calls but we never really touched another
airplane. But we were close to them.
RN: Did you see airplanes collide?
CN: Oh yes. I saw several airplanes collide. I
remember one time, I can't remember the target,
but there was an airplane on our right wing and
it was a strike. I think that a friend of mine was
in that airplane. He got hit by fighters ___?___
and I was shooting at him but I don't think he
was shooting at our ship. He shot at the one on
the right side and that blew up like fireworks.
That's hard to see.
RN: How many missions did you go on?
CN: I went on 32 missions. I had one in France
and 31 in Germany.
RN: What was Christmas and Thanksgiving like
when you were overseas?
CN: Well, Christmas and Thanksgiving were the
most important part of our-- because you finally
got a good meal. It was a special meal so a lot of
goodies came along with it. But the Christmas I
can remember was served on the 22nd, 23rd,
24th and 25th so when we got back on the 25th
that was a real good turkey dinner. When
Christmas was gone all we got was hot dogs. So
RN: When and how did you hear about the end
of the war in Europe?
CN: In April of 1945. In fact, we were in South
Hampton aboard a ship. I can't remember. I
think we were about to go back to the United
States. The war ended in Europe as we were on
board the ship about 2 days before we set sail.
So we took off and I think we left on the 10th of
May. We arrived at ___?___ New York. While I
was aboard I volunteered to do K. P. duty. I
worked on kitchen duty every day so I wouldn't
have to go in line to eat.
RN: How did you get along with the people with
whom you had the greatest contact?
CN: Well, we got along real good. In fact the
other crews in other planes, we all got along. We
all knew we had to depend on each other so
there was a lot of cooperation.
RN: Would you do anything different with
regards to your time in the military?
CN: Well, you think about that a lot. Sometimes
I thought if I had done something different
maybe I wouldn't be here. I often thought of that
because I always wanted to fly and I thought it I
pushed myself harder I could probably make the
___?___. But maybe I wouldn't be around, who
knows?
RN: Didn't you volunteer to get to the Asian
theater after?
CN: Yes, I did.
RN: What happened?
�CN: Well, I could come up with ___?___ a little
sharp ___?___ and it was a 2 man crew. So I
thought I could get use to flying one. I went to
my colonel and he recommended that since my
missions in Europe maybe I could fly with them.
Except that since the war ended it didn't happen.
RN: What was the most difficult thing you had
to do during your military service?
certain city, warning the people to get out ( that
I'm going to destroy the city. Then if they didn't
go out, I wouldn't feel as badly about it when
they bombed that particular town.
RN: Has you feeling changed about the atomic
bomb in the last fifty years?
CN: Maybe it hasn't changed that much.
RN: When were you discharged?
CN: I think the most difficult thing I had to do
was I was just married. I hadn't been married
more than 6 months and I had to leave my wife
and then go into the service. Also when ___?___
was born I wasn't able to come home. So what I
did when they wouldn't let me go home, I
bought milk shakes and cigars for everybody I
knew.
CN: I was discharged October of 1945.
RN: What was you rank?
CN: I was a staff sergeant.
RN: What happened to your airplane?
RN: How did you learn about VE Day and what
was your reaction to it?
CN: I don't know. We left it over there. I don't
know what happened to it.
CN: We were in South Hampton on that ship,
that liberty ship. We could hear the celebration
outside but we couldn't go ashore to take part in
the celebration.
RN: What was the name of the airplane?
CN: ___?___ (girl's name) the noble effort.
RN: Why did they call it that?
RN: Did you notice any change in the German
defense as the end of the war drew near?
CN: Yah, they were throwing up everything they
rucks and went over there, my co-pilot and I so
we got to see the entire camp. We saw the
ovens. We saw hundreds and hundreds of deal of
gratitude.
RN: How did you learn about VE Day and what
was your reaction to it?
CN: VE day was, we were expect__?__ . . .
RN: [What was your] opinion of the use of the
atomic bomb when it was used against Japan
and civilians in August of 1945?
CN: I think it saved a lot of American lives. I
think what I would have done differently, maybe
the they did this, I don't know but I would
certainly have dropped all kinds of pamphlets a
week or so before they decided to bomb a
CN: Lt. Hall, Charlie Hall, his fiancée's name
was ___?___ so that was the name that he chose
for it. It was a model Fighter so that was . . .
RN: Can we ask you how many missions you
were on?
CN: Yes. Thirty-three, the pilot flew 35. I didn't
mention the fact that we went on flack ___?___
leave which was after 5 to 25 missions. You had
to get away for a while so they sent us down to
South Hampton, Brownsfield, England. So for a
week or ten days our whole crew was down
there except the co-pilot, Lt. Brown, and so he
flew another crew. While he was on a mission in
Czechoslovakia he got hit by an enemy fighter
ME 210, a new jet the Germans were coming
out with. He got hit and I think he lost ___?___
and went down in Czechoslovakia and was
killed. The story that we heard from people
around here said the fighter plane flew into the
�back of a B-17 and the whole crew went down
in flames.
RN: Did you see many jets in the war?
CN: They were in the area but I don't remember
seeing any jets. But they told us if we saw a jet
to start shooting at them at 150 yard rather than
100 yards or at 1000 yards for a regular
___?___.
RN: What kinds of medals and decorations?
CN: I had the good conduct medal first, then I
had the American theater medal. Also I could
have applied for a medal for being at ___?___. I
don't know what they called it. I never put in for
it. I had the air medal, had the five missions I
took. You had to request the air medal. I think
that's about what I had.
RN: Do you have a disability rating or a military
pension?
CN: No, I don't. I did have a service connected
disability but I don't see them too much. Takes
too much time.
RN: Do you have any contact with the Veteran's
Administration?
CN: Yes, I do. I go up on a regular basis two
times each year. See a doctor up there.
RN: What is your opinion of the Veterans'
Administration?
CN: I think they're terrific. They have been good
to me.
RN: Would you like to tell us about how your
family supported you during your military life?
CN: Very well. I got all the letters and all the
packages that they sent. I had their support.
(End of the tape)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
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Midway Village Museum
Publisher
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Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Charles Nelson
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Nelson
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born May 19, 1922, Charles Nelson was drafted in December 1942 into the Army Air Force. He died September 21, 2013.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/25224/archive/files/4175b2d0125d67246a9e25b9195e7296.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=Ly0o7Q9rIYrMQHwMH3z3aI43BEH6KgCn4Is9XX11vRtZm18ywxfMB9zLG3190T3JHGkSloB0aijIjlyqqi22PmULxzBwm26C15-BckpN7dUYzODKGQDCyWk7%7EDtnaD0hv-Ih1Jiexhdoiq6X4hA4jKZ4P50E6qgwfO4RlnzNGPD5LYojTQf7kjlP331A6U4Lp7N4RQqmZY%7E%7EkHFpudhHB3%7EW4PO9xqLVleFK0YaxTgDfdSpWfNQjK9NdocDPFI9zmzcOu50CIqQGSvBRAqPCp2SEGVzzaiNu0isNvij-5YJ%7EdhZJ6YmB%7ER--AB4CqoFWRYT3eBMhLD-V4m%7Eaq1JcSg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
3d0fec3ee2410036ee8625fcf6e6f8d4
PDF Text
Text
Charles W. StaleyPage 1
Charles W. Staley
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
For Midway Village & Museum Center
9766 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
�Charles W. StaleyPage 2
Charles W. Staley
My name is Charles Nelson. I am a volunteer at
Midway Village & Museum Center in Rockford,
Illinois, which is cooperating with the statewide
effort to collect oral histories from citizens that
participated in the momentous events surrounding World War II. We are in the office of
Charles Nelson in Roscoe, Illinois, to interviewing Mr. C. W. Staley who served in a branch of
the United States Armed Forces during World
War II. We are interviewing him about his experiences in that war. We are continuing this interview with Mr. Staley on June 6, 1994, which is
the 50th Anniversary of D-Day.
NELSON: Would you please give your name
andplease give us your full name and place
and date of birth.
STALEY: My full name is Charles W. Staley,
usually known as Chuck, I was born in Brooklyn, Wisconsin, on the 8th of October 1920.
NELSON: We would also like to have the
names of each one of your parents.
STALEY: My father was Gilbert C. Staley. My
mother’s maiden name was Edith M. Lewis.
They came from Albany, an area of Green
County, Wisconsin.
NELSON: Did you have any brothers and sisters?
STALEY: I have 3 sisters.
NELSON: Are there any details about you parents and of the family that you would like to
give?
STALEY: My mother was a registered nurse in
Wisconsin and she was an Army contact nurse at
Camp Grant in Rockford during the flu epidemic
during World War I. My father was a farmer.
the service, in the Army Air Corp. I enlisted on
the 4th of February of that year.
NELSON: A: What thoughts did you have
about the war before the United States became
directly involved with the conflict?
STALEY: I more or less had a strong hunch that
it was coming. That was one reason for enlistment. The other reason was to get up a rating of
#3 on the priority list for aviation cadet training.
NELSON: How did you hear of the December
7th, 1941, bombing of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese?
STALEY: I was a corporal down at [Keesler]
Air Force base in Mississippi called [Keesler]
Field then. My roommate and I, he was Staff
Sergeant, had been to the midnight show in Biloxi the night before. We woke up late, turned
the radio on and we heard the news and I looked
at him (Dick Reiner from Kansas) and said,
“Dick, there goes our Christmas furloughs all to
hell.”
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or
developed any feeling about what had been taking place in Europe or Asia?
STALEY: I had more or less been interested in
the news on it and so forth and I knew it was
going to be a repeat of World War I. Actually I
was a little surprised that the Japanese were involved so early.
NELSON: But you had read newspaper accounts of the situation? Did you have any
knowledge of Hitler’s speeches, ideas or actions?
STALEY: Newsreels that sort of thing and
reading, of course - magazines and newspapers.
NELSON: What was life like before the war,
specifically during 1941?
NELSON: So you were a volunteer in the Air
Force?
STALEY: Well, during 1941, I was already in
STALEY: Correct.
�Charles W. StaleyPage 3
NELSON: When and where were you inducted?
passes? If so, how did you use them?
STALEY: I enlisted at Milwaukee, Wisconsin,
on the 4th of February 1941.
STALEY: I had a delay en route between Fort
Logan and Keesler down at Biloxi. I bought a
Model A Ford out in Englewood, Colorado,
drove that along with 5 others. It was a little
crowded but that was the only way we could get
a delay en route. Then we spent, I believe 15
days here in the Midwest and then headed on
down to Keesler.
NELSON: Do you have any special memories
of this event?
STALEY: I remember that it was a grade school
friend of mine, named Jim [Fitbinney] who had
enlisted for the Coast Artillery. We went down
to Sheridan first. Then we were put on a troop
train for St. Louis. He was headed for the Philippines and that was the last I saw of him when
we parted company in St. Louis. He was on the
death march and didn’t make it.
NELSON: How old were you when you became
involved?
NELSON: Okay. That was in the Air Force?
STALEY: Army Air Corp, yeah.
NELSON: Your assigned duties were to fly?
STALEY: Not at that time.
STALEY: I enlisted when I was just past 20.
NELSON: Not at that point. Okay. Where did
you go after completing basic military training?
NELSON: What happened after you were inducted? Where were you sent?
STALEY: Oh, I believe I already covered that,
Fort Logan and so forth.
STALEY: First to Jefferson Barracks, Missouri.
We were there in tents in February of ’41. Remember waking up one morning with icicles in
my hair. I had taken a late shampoo the night
before. Then we went over to Scott, another recruit training, Scott Field, Illinois, near Belleville. From there I went to Fort Logan. I was
drafted I guess to go to an administrative clerical
school. I wanted to go to aircraft mechanics
school. We arrived there in April of ’41and we
had to complete a 16-week course in 14 weeks
because someone had sent us 2 weeks late. So
then we went down to Keesler, I believe there
were about 50 of us from Scott that went out to
Logan (?). We went down to Keesler and we
helped pioneer Keesler. Actually there were
about 3000.
NELSON: Okay. Now if you were not sent
overseas immediately following basic training,
when did you finally leave the United States?
NELSON: Keesler is in what state?
STALEY: That’s in Biloxi, Mississippi. There
were about 3000 people there when we arrived
in August of ’41. When I left the cadet training
in July of ’42 there were over 40,000.
NELSON: Okay. Did you have any leaves or
STALEY: I was in cadet training until March of
’43 down in Mission, Texas. It was advance
flight training in AT6s. Then I went up to
Westover and received 10 hours in P47s, which
was quite an experience, going from 650 horse
power to 2000 with no in between Then I was
sent up to Grenier where the 359th Fighter
Group was stationed at the time. From Grenier
we went down to Long Island with 2 squadrons
of us being at Republic Field and the other one,
the 370th down at Mitchell at Hempstead.
NELSON: When you were sent overseas, how
did you get there?
STALEY: Let’s see. I’d better cover We left
from Long Island and staged up at Westover.
From Westover we went down to Kilmer. Then
we left the Port of New York on my birthday, 8th
of October 1943. We arrived over in Scotland
about 11 days later as I recall.
�Charles W. StaleyPage 4
NELSON: Okay. When and where were you
sent overseas and how did you get there?
STALEY: Well, we went by banana boat actually. It rocked and rolled and it was pretty rough
in October. In Scotland, near Glasgow, we
boarded a train and went down to __?__, England. Then by truck to East __?__ s about 6
miles from __?__.
NELSON: Then were you assigned to a plane
after you got to
STALEY: We didn’t have our aircraft immediately. We arrived there in late middle of October. I don’t think we got our aircraft until late
November. Seems like. Then we went operational the 13th of [December?]
NELSON: Tell us about your experience of entering your first combat zone or your first mission.
STALEY: Well, the 1st mission was our flight
sweep over France. The probably most interesting part for me was I was flying down sun and
after while the sun didn’t bother me. I was having trouble seeing other aircraft. Suddenly it
dawned on me, oxygen. My oxygen hose came
disconnected at 2700 feet. So I turned the oxygen on and got 100% sun blossomed out. It was
like someone had turned up a rheostat.
NELSON: Can you list for us in order of occurrence all subsequent combat action in which you
were involved?
STALEY: Ah, well.
NELSON: What did you do to spend your time
when you first got over there?
STALEY: Well, we familiarized ourselves with
the base. We had aircraft recognition courses.
One of these, I remember, was taught by a man
from Madison, Wisconsin, where he has retired
from Middleton, now Jorgenson. He actually
wrote a book “Jorgi’s War”. He had this aircraft
recognition course and taught that. Then we had
our own ground school and so forth, staying
current on aircraft recognition. Little on the geography, of course. I did a lot of study of a big
map of Europe that we had in our flight room
trying to memorize all the major rivers and all
that sort of thing which came in handy later.
NELSON: That’s true. What did you think of
the nation’s war efforts up to this point?
STALEY: Well, one thing that a lot of us
weren’t too impressed with was John L. Lewis
calling a coal miners’ strike in the summer of
’43 because we figured that would hinder the
war effort.
NELSON: If you did not immediately enter a
combat zone, where did you go prior to combat?
STALEY: We were actually in a combat zone
as soon as we arrived in England.
NELSON: (Interrupted).
STALEY: The 13th of December on a more or
less routine escort we were involved in the January 11th event where the American losses, I
believe were in 91 heavies, B24s and B17s. I
think we lost 3 or 4 out of the 370 Squadron.
The weather was bad. The fighters couldn’t
make ground contact properly. The bombers
were late and off course. It was just a miserable
bunch of soup up there. Somewhere over the
Netherlands, we were in the way of someI
don’t remember whether it was 190s or 109s and
they avoided us apparently or lost us when they
went into some clouds. We were trying to get
after them. I had a belly tank that hung up. My
crew chief never was able to figure out later how
I tore the __?__ side of the fuselage. But I was a
little desperate and shackle was hung apparently
and I wanted to get rid of that tank because it
was pretty flammable if it was hit in combat.
When I couldn’t get rid of it, they sent me home.
That was the first time I saw P51s. I was following bombers that were headed back for England aborting and going to join up with them
more or less. I looked back and I saw all these
single engine in linefighters coming out of the
overcast. My aching back, here I am with this
tank all alone and a whole group of Germans
was after me. Then I saw the scoops to identify
them. Before I made identification I had the
�Charles W. StaleyPage 5
__?__ wrapped up into the firewall. I was on just
routine escort. Somehow or other I, the flight I
was in never seemed to get too involved for
some reason or other. We just weren’t in the
right place at the right time.
STALEY: We were all see; about 90 or 95% of
the outfit was from the class of Aviation Cadets
and Gulf Coast training command.
NELSON: Your whole group?
STALEY: That was the reason we knew each
other fairly well before we were ever in combat.
STALEY: Some of the rest of the group got into
it but somehow or other we weren’t at the place
the Germans came in.
NELSON: So you knew them fairly well then.
NELSON: And that’s important to have that
relationship when you depend on each other,
right?
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change as
combat continued?
STALEY: Right.
STALEY: Not appreciable. We had a job to do
and we just kept on doing the job.
NELSON: Have you remained in contact in any
of your World War II companions?
NELSON: What did you think of the war so
far?
STALEY: Correct. We have a reunion association. Started out with 369th Fighter Squadron and
then it’s now extended to the other 2 squadrons.
Let’s see368th and 370th squadrons. We were
the middle squadron. Through notices and so
forth I let the others know I’ve been the perennial secretary association since 1980 so I
STALEY: It was getting a little rough here and
there. We lost quite a few. In fact when we came
back to the States there were 26 as I recall in the
squadron, 26 pilots, including the __?__ officer
and the squadron commander. I counted 13 of us
were still on the right side of the drink, the drink
being the North Sea and the Channel.
NELSON: Did you write many letters home?
STALEY: Oh, yes.
NELSON: Did you receive letters and packages?
STALEY: Not too many packages as I told
them not to send any. They got beat up in the
mail too much. I got my wife to send me some
wax. Wanted to wax my P-47, this was quite a
project. She did find Johnson’s wax or simonize,
can’t remember which now.
NELSON: Did most of the other men write and
receive letters?
STALEY: Correct.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of
friendship with many or some of your combat
companions?
NELSON: (Interrupts). Got stuck with the job?
STALEY: I got stuck with it. I volunteered to
take the minutes because the original secretary
wasn’t there. They elected me secretary. Now I
can’t get out of it. But anyway we hadI think
we have as many from each of the other squadrons as we gave from the 369th.now. We also
invited our units that we had over there to join
us. A lot of them have.
NELSON: What was your highlight occurrence
in your combat experience and any other experience you remember?
STALEY: Highlight? I guesswell, one in particular was in March of 1944. We were on an
escort mission in the eastern Netherlands. I
probably got lined up with the south of the ZuiderZee as many people call it. There were some
B-17s missing and all that sort of thing. We received a call from a wing controller who apparently had radar at the time. Sometimes we were
in doubt later whether that was a bogus call or
�Charles W. StaleyPage 6
not because that could have happened. Well,
anyway before the 30 plus German aircraft over
Zwolle in the Netherlands. They left a flight of 4
of us on the crippled B-17s. Somehow or other
the rest of the group and The Germans must
have passed between our position in Zwolle because we wound up with a 30 plus and the 4 of
us. I was on C-channel, which is right around
our intercomport channel VHF. So I didn’t
hear our call to break or anything. The next I
know I was in Squadron __?__ and he __?__
break to the left. Number 3 man came across and
cut me out of the flight, so I had to pull in and
about that time a German aircraft was on their
tail so I started after him, to get him off their tail.
John Oliphant of Colorado Springs now had
water. I, incidentally, had the only aircraft in the
squadron that didn’t have water. It had been
modified. Anyhow old Johnny was going
straight up in black smoke pouring out in the full
bore on the P-47 and he could out climb him. I
stuck on the tail of this troop. I think this is the
one I probably got credit for. But anyway, I gave
some header bursts and then I got close enough
in so I got same strikes. I headed him off, in
other words, from the 2 ahead of me.
were stationed East __?__why Airdromes were
all over the place. I found and located my airdrome went in and landed and discovered there
was a __?__ north of London. A funny thing
happened there. There was a Spitty Spitfire
came in and had a Norwegian refugee pilot. He
was about 6’ 2” and I imagine he weighed about
200. At that time I weighed about 140 and about
5’ 5”. I got out of that big P47 and the big Norwegian pilot got out of the Spitty and the flight
control officer was shaking his head wondering
what was going on I think. Anyway I got back
from the fray.
NELSON: He didn’t bail out or anything?
STALEY: Not that I recall in that year. I guess
in ’44 they did. Not that I recall in 1943.
STALEY: Not to my knowledge because we got
down to a lower altitude and they told us not to
try to turn with him at low altitude, at that time
with a P-47. So, anyway, I hadn’t cleared my tail
and I didn’t know how many behind me at that
time. It happened to be a friendly cumulus cloud
there so I just tied in to it and made about a 45
turn in case somebody was too close on behind
me. And all of them turned me in as MIA
(missing in action) when they got back to England because he said the last he saw of anything,
he was prone to a little exaggeration, he said the
last we saw of them the whole Luftwaffe was on
my tail. Anyway __?__ and so forth and I got a
little bum steer from Homer. I had to let down 2
__?__and Homer told me it sounded like I
passed over the station. So I proceeded to make
a 180 and started a let down and had only about
a 300-foot ceiling. I came out and discovered
there was a barrage balloon cable floating in the
overcast about ¼ of a mile off my left wing and
I couldn’t find anything familiar. Up where we
NELSON: Well, you lived to tell about it. Tell
us what you and the others men did to celebrate
American traditional family holidays such as
Thanksgiving and Christmas.
STALEY: Christmas of 1943, I was over there.
I can’t recall whether we flew a mission that
day. We probably didn’t but I don’t recall any
special event or anything.
NELSON: Did you get any special treats as far
as food?
NELSON: When and how did you return to the
United States after the end of the war?
STALEY: I came back before the end of the
war. I left over there I think in late August. I
arrived in New York the 5th of September of ’44.
I took leave. I think when I was in the boat
coming back to the States.
NELSON: What happened when you arrived in
the United States?
STALEY: I was sent to Fort Sheridan and delayed en route to report down to Miami Beach
for redistribution as a fighter instruction for replacement training. So I was on leave forI
can’t remember whether it was 15 days or what
it was. No, think it was 30 days that time because I had to report in to Miami Beach on the
8th of October, my birthday coming up.
�Charles W. StaleyPage 7
NELSON: How did you get along with the men
with whom you had the greatest contact?
STALEY: I was justDo you mean in combat
or
NELSON: The people you associated with
while in the service.
STALEY: I spent a long time in service.
(Laughter)
America and Europe, I lived in North Africa a
few times at the __?__ Air Base down in Tripoli
[then] I was in Germany.
NELSON: Well, where were you at and how
did you hear about VE Day?
STALEY: I was down at Galveston, Texas, going through a supervisory gunnery course. Me
and another pilot out of the 359th went down
from Abilene, Texas, where we were instructed
to take this gunnery course.
NELSON: I would say during the time, you
know, in the ’40s.
NELSON: How about VJ Day?
STALEY: Well, as I say, we were all pretty
good friends. I had classmates that were all in
two squadrons and all that sort of thing.
STALEY: VJ Day I was at Abilene yet. I can’t
recall any thing in particular except we were
instructed not to participate in any celebrations
on both the camps.
NELSON: .If you had to do things differently,
would you do them once again or would you do
them differently?
STALEY: I probably would follow the same
course. I wanted to be a fighter pilot for as long
as I can remember.
NELSON: What was the most difficult thing
you had to do during your period of military
service?
STALEY: I can’t think of anything most difficult.
NELSON: Is there anyone thing that stands out
as your most successful achievement in the military service?
STALEY: I trained the first Turkish fighter pilots in P-47s getting them ready for combat. One
of them, Osdora(?) wound up as leader of the
Turkish aerobatics team in F-84s around about
1950-’51, sometime that year. I saw him again
in early 1955 when in Germany on a visit to our
NATO Bases over there.
NELSON: Well, in your period of time when
you were in service you did a lot of traveling
over in Europe? Right?
STALEY: Mostly I was restricted to North
NELSON: Took all the fun out of it. What was
your opinion of the use of the atomic bomb
when it was used against Japanese civilians in
August ’45?
STALEY: I think it saved a lot of American
lives probably eventually it would have saved a
lot of Japanese lives because if had gone on
conventional there would have been as much
destruction as there was with the use of the
A-bomb I am sure.
NELSON: Has your opinion changed over the
last 50 years?
STALEY: No.
NELSON: When and where were you officially
discharged.
STALEY: I returned from Chanute Air Force
Base in Illinois on the 31st of October 1963.
NELSON: Do you have any disability rating or
pension?
STALEY: I have a 50% disability rating.
NELSON: Do you have any opinion or feeling
about the nation’s military status or policies?
�Charles W. StaleyPage 8
STALEY: Currently or
NELSON: Would you like to tell us about your
families support in your military life?
NELSON: Currently.
NELSON: Do you have any contact with the
Veterans’ Administration?
STALEY: Well we stayed in contact and get
home on leave on occasion. My wife, of course,
traveled with me from the time the war was
over. From the time I came back from combat.
We were married in 1943 when I was up on
Long Island. So we just celebrated our 51st anniversary. I met her when I was in primary flight
school.
STALEY: On occasion. I go up to the V. A.
Hospital in Madison.
NELSON: Congratulations. Over the subsequent years, what has this support meant to you?
NELSON: Okay. What’s your opinion of the
Veterans’ Administration?
STALEY: It’s kept life interesting.
STALEY: Currently. I am a little worried about
the drastic draw down of military forces now
because there is no strength in weakness in political dealings.
STALEY: I guess they do the best they can. I
haven’t had any difficulty with them.
NELSON: Have you ever gone to the V. A.
Hospital for medical services?
STALEY: Right.
NELSON: If so what was your opinion of the
care you received?
STALEY: It was adequate. In fact it must have
been pretty good.
NELSON: Is there anything else you would like
to mention that you hadn’t mentioned before?
STALEY: Well, since this is mostly for the residents of the State of Illinois, I guess I probably
could qualify because I was down at Belleville,
Illinois, twice. I was a private, the first time I
was a Captain the next time I went there, I Lived
there for a little over a year. Then I was down at
Chanute for a little over 6 years before I retired.
It was the only way I could get out of the recruiting service.
NELSON: Okay. That was a good interview.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
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Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Charles W. Staley
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Charles W. Staley
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6-Jun-94
Description
An account of the resource
Born October 8, 1920, Charles W. Staley enlisted in the Army Air Corps in January 1941. He died October 31, 2010.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
State Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts of East State Street and West State Street in Rockford, Illinois. The majority of views cover the era of 1900-1930.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1990
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
4.25" x 5.75"
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
City Hall
Description
An account of the resource
This card is in a booklet stamped "Souvenir Letter: Views of Rockford, Ill." This depicts the City Hall's three-story structure with a clock tower.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Wilson Bros. Co. Printers
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1910
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109(I).923 6 of 12
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
City Hall
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
West State Street
-
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d139f2ad998abbe83430ba3050503f71
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
State Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts of East State Street and West State Street in Rockford, Illinois. The majority of views cover the era of 1900-1930.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1990
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Corner State and Main, "Rockford Hub", Rockford, Illinois.
Description
An account of the resource
From West State Street looking north on Main Street: on the left, Rockford Dry Goods Co., Kress', and the Coronado Theatre in the distance; Mason's, Doran's, and the Palace Theatre on the right.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Quality Paper Co.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1940
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109(I).20
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Coronado Theatre
Doran's
Kress'
Mason's
Midway Village Museum
Palace Theatre
Rockford Dry Goods Co.
Rockford Illinois
West State Street
-
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f6bfef2faaa4010867211c93b70af4c4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Main Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts and neighborhoods of North Main Street and South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois stretching from Whitman Street at the north, to Montague Street at the south.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1900-1930
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.25" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Coronado Theatre
Description
An account of the resource
Exterior of the Coronado Theatre; marquee reads "Jane Withers 'Ginger' O P Heggie
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1930
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
74.590.6
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Coronado Theatre
Main Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Main Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts and neighborhoods of North Main Street and South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois stretching from Whitman Street at the north, to Montague Street at the south.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1900-1930
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Coronado Theatre - Barton Organ
Description
An account of the resource
Majestic view of the theater's white and gold organ. On the back: "The Grande Barton Theatre Pipe Organ (4 manuals, 17 ranks) opened the Coronado Theatre, Rockford, Illinois in 1927. Restored in 1971, it is maintained by the Land of Lincoln Theatre Organ Society. The Coronado, "Rockford's Wonder Theatre", an atmospheric house, is a National Historic Landmark."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Dave Lombardo
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Riverview Publications
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1975
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
87.46.3
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Coronado Theatre
Main Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
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PDF Text
Text
Donald W. Owens
4 ½ years in the Army
Mostly in Pacific Jungles
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
For Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois
Phone 815 397 9112
�Donald W. Owens
Interviewer: Charles Nelson
Date: March 23, 1994
My name is Charles Nelson and I am a volunteer at Midway Village and Museum
Center in Rockford, Illinois, which is cooperation with the statewide effort to collect
oral histories from Illinois citizens that participated in the momentous events surrounding World War II. We are in the home
of Mr. Owens in Roscoe, Illinois. Mr. Owens served in the United States Armed
Forces during World War II. We are interviewing him about his experiences in that
war.
NELSON: Would you please start this interview by introducing yourself to us?
OWEN: My name is Don Owens.
NELSON: Okay. Please give us your full
name and date of birth.
OWEN: My full name is Donald Owens. I
was born in Beloit, Wisconsin, on the 4h of
February 1919.
NELSON: We would also like to have the
names of each of your parents. Did you have
any brothers or sisters?
OWEN: Yes. My dad was Ward Owens and
my mother was Gertrude Owens. I have one
brother, Stanley Owens, and two sisters Kay
Lockwood and Marion Heady.
NELSON: Are there any details about your
parents and your family that you would like
to give us?
OWEN: No, other than my brother was in
World War II He was with the 104th Timber
Wolves over in Europe in the Battle of the
Bulge and some of those. So we both went
through the war.
NELSON: What was life like before the
war specifically during 1941?
OWEN: During 1941, I was assistant manager of a shoe store in Beloit and then they
started the draft thing and selective service
so rather than wait to be drafted, I was going
to be one of these heroes and sign up. So I
volunteered. I didn’t wait to get selected. So
I went into the army on April 14th, 1941.
NELSON: Okay. What thoughts did you
have about the war before the United States
became directly involved in the conflict?
OWEN: Well, I wasn’t too sure what was
going to happen like everybody else but then
I knew that if it did happen why I was going
to do my part. So that’s exactly why I signed
up.
NELSON: How did you hear of December
7th, 1941, bombing of Pearl Harbor by the
Japs? If so, where were you and what were
you doing at the time? What was your reaction to it?
OWEN: I distinctly remember that and I
was “teed” off because where I was atI
was in the train station in Alexandra, Louisiana, with my furlough; waiting to go on
furlough. All I was doing down there at the
depot was waiting for my train to come back
home. That’s when the news came on that
Pearl Harbor had been attacked. So the MPs
came in the depot and said, “Soldier, where
are you from?” I said, Camp Livingston,
Louisiana, and he said, “Well, that’s where
you’re going back to right now” So I got a
�Donald W. Owens Page 3
refund on my railroad ticket. So that’s why I
knew exactly where I was when that happened.
where you were inducted?
OWEN: No, I hadn’t.
OWEN: I was inducted in Milwaukee,
Wisconsin, April 14th, of 1941. That night
we came back by train through Beloit and I
got put in Camp Grant in Rockford, Illinois,
and the next day I got out of there and they
put us on a train and went Camp Livingston,
Louisiana.
NELSON: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
NELSON: Do you have any special memories of this event?
OWEN: Yes, I do.
OWEN: Yeah, probably. All the guys got
into Camp Grant and after our first meal full
of saltpeter, as you well know, I don’t have
to explain to anybody that has been in the
military the results of getting a dose of saltpeter. That’s what I remember about Camp
Grant.
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or developed any feeling about what had
been taking place in Europe or Asia?
NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of
Hitler’s speeches, ideas or actions?
OWEN: From what I read, somewhat, yes.
NELSON: What events led to your entry in
the military service? Were you already in
the service, drafted or did you volunteer?
NELSON: How old were you?
OWEN: I was twenty-two.
OWEN: I was already in the service when
the war started. Like I said, just a few
minutes ago, I was ready to come home on
furlough on Pearl Harbor Day so I had been
in for quite some time, April of that year, in
fact.
NELSON: Was your response to entering
military service influenced by family and
friends attitudes toward the war, the threat to
national security or any other consideration?
OWEN: Well, I think probably the threat to
national security. Like I said, I was willing
to do my part. That was probably the biggest
thing, along with the fact that the Selective
Service going and I didn’t wasn’t to wait for
that. I was going to volunteer. So I would
say, yes, that national security was probably
the biggest reason.
NELSON: Did you mention when and
NELSON: What happened after you were
inducted? Where were you sent and where
did you take your basic military training?
OWEN: After I was inducted I was sent to
Camp Livingston, Louisiana, and that’s
where we took our basic training. Our basic
training was followed by the, I suppose you
could say, famous Louisiana maneuvering
which was participated in so that was well to
be remembered, too.
NELSON: What were you trained to do?
OWEN: We were trained to I went into
the Field Artillery Unit and then they
formed us into an anti-tank battalion which
we eventually became a tank destroyer battalion.
NELSON: Was this by choice or
�Donald W. Owens Page 4
OWEN: No, this wasn’t by choice. They
just assigned us there. We were they just
put us there. I was a fill inone of the fill
ins. As a selectee they filled us into the
Wisconsin-Michigan famous 32nd Red Arrow Division which was all National
Guards. So they put us in and we were
trained by Wisconsin National Guard people
in our basic training.
NELSON: What did you think of the training?
OWEN: It was good training. It wasn’t the
best conditions in the world but it was good
training. The weather was badhot and
humid all the time and __?__ tents with
seashells for sidewalks and that type of
thing. So we weren’t in the worst place in
the world but it wasn’t the best either. You
don’t forget anyway.
NELSON: Can you remember anything
special that happened there?
OWEN: Yes, I can remember one thing. I
never forgot because after our basic training,
you know, we were scared if these high
ranking officers. I remember one of our guys
in our outfit, his name was Russ Rinesmith.
He worked in the Beloit Iron Works in
Beloit and also the commanding general of
the 57th Field Artillery Brigade was General
Bill Woods who was Vice President of
Beloit Corporation in peacetime. So we
were going down the street one night to the
movies and we saw this General up there
and so we were getting ready to throw him
the best salute we had, you know. Break
your arm off if you had to. Russ Rinesmith
saw the general and he recognized him as
Bill Woods so Russ says, “Hi, Bill.” Geez, I
thought we were both going to get court
martialed. What happened? The general says
“Hi, Les” and he invited him into his quarters there and sat and drank for a while. I
went to the movies by myself.
NELSON: That’s interesting. Tell us about
any other training camps you attended.
OWEN: Well we went by convoy, moved
all of our equipment, all our trucks, everything, from Camp Livingston, Louisiana, to
Fort Devens, Massachusetts. I was one of
the drivers. I drove all the way and we got
there and, of course, we thought we were
going to the European Theater winding up in
Massachusetts. We were there a short time
and one-day we started loading up all our
heavy equipment on railroad flat cars which
we thought was very funny. Jeez, we drive
all the way from Louisiana and then they’re
going to put us on railroad flat cars to take
us over to the Brooklyn Navy Yard and ship
us out to Europe. That seemed crazy. Well,
where we wound up was in San Francisco.
We shipped out of Frisco to the South Pacific, to New Guinea or Australia. That’s
where we went.
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or
passes?
OWEN: I had passes, yeah. The leave, that
furlough I had cancelled on Pearl Harbor
Day; I never did get that back. I got paid
eventually for it when I was discharged. I
got a good chunk of “dough” because we
never got any furlough time to speak of.
NELSON: You didn’t get enough time to
come home?
OWEN: Oh we had enough time but they
wouldn’t let us come home. I don’t remember. Remember they had rotation points,
something like, what was it 84 points or
something like that. I had something like
128 or something like that when I finally got
to rotate. But that was up in Hollandia, New
Guinea. A year or two later after this __?__.
�Donald W. Owens Page 5
NELSON: What do you recall about this
period about the places you were stationed,
the friend you made and your association
with civilians?
OWEN: You mean stateside, in the United
States?
NELSON: Yeah.
OWEN: I don’t think we made any friends
outside of the military area. We went to
some of those big cities. We went to Boston,
Massachusetts, and some of those cities
around, Worcester and some of those cities
just for a weekend. We’d go to a dance or
something like that. But we never made any
fast friends. Actually we didn’t have that
much time there to make any friends. By the
time they got done deciding to ship us elsewhere, that didn’t last long. Of course, we
got to the West Coast we went right to Angel Island so we never saw anybody.
NELSON: You were with an anti-tank unit?
OWEN: Yeah. When we left it was called
the 32nd Division Anti-Tank Battalion and
then later on it was formed into the 632nd
Tank Destroyer Battalion. It stayed like that
all through the war.
NELSON: What was your job with this
unit?
OWEN: I was reconnaissance sergeant.
NELSON: Where did you go after you
completed your basic military training? This
is the training that you had in the United
States. You said you were shipped out of the
West Coast?
OWEN: Yeah. Okay. We went on a ship for
a 22-day boat ride and we landed at Fort
Adelaide, Australia. That’s where we land-
ed. We went out in the woods to a camp out
there called Sandy Creek.
NELSON: Do you remember the ship that
you went on?
OWEN: Yes. Hugh L. Scott was the name
of the ship. That ship got sunk in the African
Campaign later on and then when I did get
to come home, to rotate. I came home, and
sure enough, I got on the brand new Hugh L.
Scott, same named ship 2 ½ years later.
NELSON: That’s unusual.
OWEN: It sure is. Difference in the ships,
too, I’ll tell you!
NELSON: I’ll bet. Well, what were you assigned to do after arriving overseas?
OWEN: Overseas? I was assigned to help,
go out and locate and set up camps. I went
out with the captain and the exec officer. We
had to go out into the wood and find an area
which was suitable and then we would have
to plan where all our equipment would go
and that sort of thing. Reconnaissance nothing to do with the enemy at that time but just
set up. Then after we got set up, of course,
then we trained for reconnaissance, amphibious training and all that stuff because
we were going to make a lot of landings. So
we went into that later on.
NELSON: What did you think of our nation’s war efforts up to this point?
OWEN: Very good, very good.
NELSON: If you did not immediately enter
a combat zone . . . I think we answered that
question.
OWEN: Yeah. We went to jungle training
and amphibious training because the Japa-
�Donald W. Owens Page 6
nese were experts in the jungle and we
didn’t know beans about it and the amphibious training. We went down in South
Hampton in Australia and we made landing
after landing, you know, with the amphibious ships. We’d come up and hit the beach
and all that stuff. We did that over and over
and over so we got quite proficient at it finally.
NELSON: Tell us about your experience of
entering your first combat zone.
OWEN: The first combat. We went up to
New Guinea, landed in Milne Bay and then
after that we went around to __?__ Island to
a staging area. Then we got ready and then
on New Year’s Day of ’43, we made an
amphibious landing and we landed at Saidor, New Guinea. This was Douglas MacArthur’s Hedge Hopping. In other words, we
went up the coast to make a landing and pin
them in between us, the Japanese. Then
we’d go up the coast to make another amphibious landing and put the squeeze on
them. We went all the way up the coast of
New Guinea that way. We made landings at
Saidor, [Galhall(?), Mod(?) River] and
Aitape and Hollandia right up the coast like
that.
NELSON: I would suppose, during this
time you would have casualties? Can you
tell us the number and types of casualties,
how they occurred and how they were
treated?
OWEN: I remember our first guy that got
killed. His name was Jimmy [Heason]. He
was on the third platoon and they were out
setting up a gun because we expected counter attacks. They were setting up guns along
the coast and all of a sudden out of nowhere
came a whole bunch of Japanese bombers
and they started ? . We could see the
bombs coming down. Of course, we all hit
the dirt. Jimmy got hit and he got killed and
a couple of other guys. One guy had his leg
taken off and a couple others badly hurt. I
was fortunate because I had laid in one of
the tracks that the trucks had made. All I got
out of it was my butt was sticking up in the
air and the old army saying about having
sand pointed up your ass, well that’s what
happened to me. I got peppered and later
they took me to the doctor. He put me over
his knee and he was picking the sand out of
my butt with a needle. Then he covered me
with that purple stuff you know. Remember
that purple stuff that they used to use? I forget the name of it. God, they put that on
everything so there was a little humor to it
too but it wasn’t very funny when we got hit
because when you lose your first buddy,
why it’s devastating; you just never forget,
never.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change
as combat continued?
OWEN: Yeah. I think so. It made you all
the madder and more determined that we
were going to wipe those suckers out of
there and you knew you had something to
fight for then. You were really “teed” off.
That’s what happened. It made me very,
very much more determined to win this
thing.
NELSON: What did you think of the war so
far?
OWEN: I like civilian life a lot better. The
living conditions were terrible because it got
up to about 130 and when you’ve got to
fight a war besides that and then you’re
fighting the elements and fighting disease as
well as the enemy, it’s quite miserable. We
lived in foxholes. You dig a hole where it’s
so near the beach the darn thing would fill
up with water. So you stay there all night on
your knees in a foxhole with your chin
�Donald W. Owens Page 7
above water with the leeches sucking on to
you. Those type of things. The living conditions weren’t good.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of
friendship with many or some of you combat companions?
NELSON: Did anyone have tents to sleep
in?
OWEN: Oh, yeah. To this day we are still
very close. In fact next month I’m the host
for the reunion of Company C 632nd Tank
Destroyer Battalion. This will be our 49th
consecutive meeting that we’ve had with
Company C ever since 1945. We get together every year without fail.
OWEN: Not there. No. Well they did back
in the rest areas. They put up tents. Every
once in a while they’d rotate you back to the
rest area. Let you rest up because my outfit
had the longest combat record ever of any
United States military outfit. We had 654
days of combat. That’s the greatest total of
any outfit in the military service in the
United States.
NELSON: That’s great. Did you ever have
to help retrieve a wounded buddy from the
field of combat?
OWEN: Yes.
NELSON: Did you receive many letters and
or packages, if so, how often? What type of
things did you get in these packets?
OWEN: Well, we would receive them like
everybody else. I suppose in bunches. We
wouldn’t get any for a long time and all of a
sudden we’d get a mail call and we’d get a
whole bunch of dated letters, a whole bunch
of papers and some boxes. I remember we
got boxes of food and we’d open the things
up. I especially remember things like Baby
Ruth candy bars. They were so green with
mold, you know. They looked like the grass
out in front so we’d scrape that mold off and
ate them and we’d thought they were great.
Back home they’d throw the damn things in
the garbage. But, boy, over there that was a
treat. We just scraped off the mold and ate
them.
NELSON: About the rest of the men. Did
they write and receive letters?
OWEN: Yeah. I think most of them did.
Then when we did get a box we’d share it.
You shared whether you wanted to or not.
They came in and put the grabs on it. But
everybody was real about it.
NELSON: Would you tell us about that?
What you can remember.
OWEN: Well, I like to pass on that one.
NELSON: Okay, fine. During your combat
duties did you ever catch any enemy prisoners? If so, please describe the circumstances.
OWEN: Well, the first two that we captured
were a couple of Japanese
?
you
know before you go in on a landing you get
the bombardment from the ships. You get
the bombing from the Air Force. Then you
get the strafing with the fighter planes. After
all that you hit the beach and in fact as we
hit the beach, why the liberator bombers,
B26, I guess they call them B24. They were
still dropping and the whole ground was
shaking when we hit the beach. We stayed
in there the first night and nothing happened.
We had expected a counter attack by sea but
the gosh darn white phosphorous you know
on the ocean out there, it makes you imagine
things. You think it’s a ship coming in, you
can imagine this and that and all it is, is the
gosh darn foam on the ocean. The phosphorus is bright at night. In the morning we had
�Donald W. Owens Page 8
put in a machine gun at the base of this coconut tree. We were taking a break and one
of the guys just happened to roll over on his
back and was going to take a break and he
looked up and up to the top of that tree and
he says, “I think there’s some guys up
there.” Sure enough, there were two Japanese up there, crawled up that tree, survived
all that Navy blasting and they were so
scared that they defecated all over their legs.
It was running down their legs. They come
down and, of course, it was real tricky. So
the first thing we made them do was strip.
We had them strip butt naked because
they’d hide stuff on them like grenades or
whatever. So we stripped them down and
then we took them over to the headquarters
and they had an American who was a Japanese interpreter. He started questioning them
and when he got done, he started laughing at
one point and says, “Well, one of the things
he told me, “They told us you might get
Texas back but you’ll never get California.”
They had those guys buffaloed into thinking
that those Japs thought they were in California.
NELSON: You were never involved in any
type of concentration camps? Did you know
if they existed?
OWEN: No, not in the area I was in. They
didn’t have any such things.
NELSON: What was the highlight occurrence of combat experience or any other experience you remember?
OWEN: The highlight?
NELSON: Yes. I suppose the thing that had
the most tension to it.
OWEN: I suppose your first landing. When
you make your first landing you’re going to
hit the beach, you know. You’re a
wide-open target. You’re not ready to check
out, of course, and I remember when we hit
the beach this Major says to me. I don’t
know where we came fromhe wasn’t our
guys. I shouldn’t say that because a lot of
times being the “recon” sergeant I went with
the first wave of the infantry. Then I’d have
to shop around to find places to bring in the
heavy tank because we had these 30-ton
tank destroyers and you just couldn’t bring
them in anywhere. They’d go any place
where a man could walk because of the
buoyancy. But this one Major hit the beach
just about the time we hit the beach, the
machine guns opened up and boy, you
know, we hit the deck needless to say. This
one Major says to me, “Sergeant, you go in
and silence that machine gun.” And I said,
“The hell with you, Major, after you.” He
said, “God damn it, I’ll have you court martialed. I said, “You go ahead, but I’m not
going in there right now.” And I never heard
any more from the guy but I thought that
was a ridiculous command.
NELSON: Sounds resolved right there. Tell
us what you and the other men did to celebrate America’s traditional family holidays
such as Thanksgiving and Christmas.
OWEN: Well, even up there that’s about the
only good meals we had. It seems that no
matter where you were, the American troops
always managed to get some turkey and
trimmings and stuff for Christmas and I’ll be
darned if they didn’t figure out a way to do
that. And that’s what we had. We had turkey
a couple times and then we got the Christmas presents from back home. Some of
these stores __?__ funny. We had our cigarette rations. We got them for nothing, of
course. We got them for nothing so this one
time, this was at Christmas time, too. I got
my cigarette ration which was a carton of
Old Gold cigarette and I opened up the carton, took the wrapping off of it and it said
�Donald W. Owens Page 9
inside “Compliments of McNeeny’s Department Store, Beloit, Wisconsin.” This
was a store that was (interruption) born and
raised, and they were sending, you know,
giving money to get these things for the
troops but I thought it was quite coincidental. Here I am, a guy from Beloit and I
get a present from the store in Beloit.
NELSON: That’s great. How did you return
to the United States after the end of the war?
OWEN: I got the word to rotate because my
turn had come so they gave us a half an
hour. They said, “You’ve got one half hour
to get down to the __?__ airdrome which is
an airport, another area field in New Guinea,
to get down there and get on that ship. I said,
“Okay. Goodbye.” The old man tried to talk
me [into] a 1st Lieutenant Field commission.
I said, “No thanks, Captain. I got this far and
no thank you. Thanks, but no thanks.” So I
dropped everything and the supply Sergeant
said, “Hey, you’re charged for all that stuff.”
I said, “Send me the bill, Boss, because I’m
gone.” I didn’t stop for nothing. So we went
down there and we got in this old C-47 and
the guys, the Air Force guys, they didn’t put
a big door on the sidebig open door. They
took it and threw it in on the floor. We took
off and away we went. The damn door was
flopping because of the wind coming in
there. We got to Hollandia and landed and
they took us with the boat and we got on that
boat and I’ll be darned that boat sat there for
30 days. It never moved. They took us off
the boat and put us to work every day. First
they gave us a half an hour to get there and
then we sat for 30 days.
NELSON: Maybe they were waiting for a
convoy or something?
OWEN: No we came home all by ourselves.
NELSON: Is that right?
OWEN: Nobody. Just us.
NELSON: Well, now when you arrived in
the United States what happened?
OWEN: We came back to the same place
we left from, Angel Island. We got in there
and boy, talk about the royal service. Everybody was hopping and waiting on you and
they’re measuring you up for clothes. “Here
you want this? You want that?” God, they
were treating us like kings. I’ll tell you. So
they measured us all up, issued this stuff.
Got everything, put us on a ship and went
across the bay. They put us on a train. They
put us on the car so and so and said, “Now
when the car that you’re in gets to Chicago,
the train is just going to drop that car off,
just let it set there. That train is going all the
way to the East Coast. They drop them off
and pretty soon a switch engine hooked on
to us and took us down to Fort Sheridan.
They processed us there and it wasn’t but a
couple of hours. Man, we were on our way. I
mean we really got the treatment. They
side-trackedthey even side tracked passenger trains for us coming home. We just
breezed us right on through. I think it was 39
hours from the West Coast to Chicago.
That’s better than the fastest passenger train.
NELSON: When was this? Do you remember what month?
OWEN: I sure do, Yessiree. I got home in
November ’44. I got married in December of
’44 and got discharged in July of ’45. It took
me that long to get out of the system.
NELSON: Please tell us about your military
rank and your decorations especially your
campaign decorations.
OWEN: Well, I didn’t get any Congressional Medals or anything like that. I just got
the usual ones, combat, the Asiatic, South
�Donald W. Owens Page 10
Pacific campaign, American Defense Medal,
three bronze battle stars on it and that is
about it. Usual one, you know.
NELSON: Can you remember some of the
islands that you landed on during the invasion?
NELSON: Expert medal?
OWEN: Well, mostly in New Guinea and
Good Enough Island. See New Guinea is the
2nd biggest in the world. New Guinea is
1500 miles long and is 12,000
OWEN: Yeah. I got all those. I had the
highest score in the entire division. I was top
man in the division and I wound up eventually as a in the reserves I wound up as
1st Sergeant. That is about it.
(Other side of tape is blank).
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
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Midway Village Museum
Publisher
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Midway Village Museum
Date
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1993-2001
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Midway Village Museum
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
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Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Donald W. Owens
Location
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Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
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Title
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Donald W. Owens
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 23, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born February 4, 1919, Donald W. Owens joined the Army Anti Tank Battalion in April of 1941. He was discharged in July 1945. He died September 27, 2009.
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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PDF Text
Text
Doctor Robert Heerens Page 1
Doctor Robert Heerens
Interviewed by Lorraine Lightcap
Without a tape
Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
�Doctor Robert Heerens Page 2
Doctor Robert Heerens
LIGHTCAP: My name is Lorraine
Lightcap and I am a volunteer with the
Midway Village & Museum Center in
Rockford, Illinois. Along with my covolunteers
we
have
transcribed
approximately 50 tapes of interviews of
World War II veterans. This was a project
begun by the State of Illinois on the 50th
Anniversary of World War II. The project is
almost completed and I have wanted to do a
few more interviews of Rockford citizens
for the research library at the museum, who
participated in the catastrophic events in the
European and Asian Theaters.
Today is October 4th, 2001, and my
interview is with Dr. Robert Heerens who
lives at 5664 Spring Brook Road. His
military service took him to the Asian war
areas from Saipan to the islands in the
Pacific and briefly to China. My first
question, Bob, is to ask you to tell us about
your family, place of birth and your
educational opportunities.
HEERENS I was born in Evanston, Illinois
in July of 1915. My father was Joseph
Heerens and my mother was Karen Larson
Heerens. I had one brother and two sisters.
One sister died at an early age. I attended
high school in Evanston. To earn money for
college I worked for one year at the Abbot
Laboratories in their Chicago branch. After
that I went to the college in Kalamazoo for 4
years. After college I worked a year at
Abbott Laboratories in North Chicago in the
biological-testing lab. Then I attended 2
years at the University of Alabama at
Tuskaloosa and then graduated from
Northeastern Medical School. M6 internship
was at the Great Lakes Naval Hospital. My
mother had been a receptionist for an
obstetrician and I suppose because I knew
the doctor she worked for, it was a key to
my interest in the medical field.
LIGHTCAP: Tell us a bit about your life
before entering college.
HEERENS I believe I was and average
young boy with a close family living in
Evanston. I was proud to be associated with
a Boy Scout Troop and eventually achieved
the Eagle Scout award. Classical music was
a favorite. This is something I picked up on
my own not particularly something my
parents was interested in.
LIGHTCAP: Were you aware of Hitler’s
Actions and speeches at the onset of the war
in Europe? What about the bombing of Pearl
Harbor?
HEERENS I remember hearing on
September 1, 1939, that Hitler had invaded
Poland. I was headed to medical school in
Alabama and was wondering how it would
affect my future. The Sunday the Japanese
bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7th,
1941; I was home with my parents listening
to a symphony concert. At first I thought it
might be another Orson Welles “scare”. The
radio resumed airing the concert and it
wasn’t until later that I realized that Pearl
Harbor had really been bombed by the
Japanese. By then I was furious.
LIGHTCAP: Tell us about your decision to
enter the Navy and about the hospitals you
were at in the United States.
HEERENS After internship at Great Lakes,
I was medical officer at the midshipman
school in Chicago, then ordered to Fleet
Marine Force at Camp Pendelton,
California. From there I was shipped to
Saipan. Actually I had applied for admission
to the Navy as a medical officer as I did not
want to be part of the army. I chose the
Navy because I loved ships. I did not need
any basic training as I enlisted as a doctor. I
spent 9 months at the Great Lake Naval
Hospital. I was commissioned as a 1st
Lieutenant, Junior Grade, and became a full
lieutenant after serving in Okinawa. In May
of ’43 I received orders to proceed to Camp
Pendleton and assigned to the Fleet Marines.
�Doctor Robert Heerens Page 3
From there I was assigned as a replacement
which ended up in Saipan. Then I was
detached and flown to Pelew [Palau] Island
in the Mid Pacific. On December 7th I
entered combat with the 1st Battalion, 5th
Regiment, 1st Marine Division.
LIGHTCAP: What were your parents’
feelings about a son serving in the Navy?
HEERENS They were happy I was going as
a M.D. and trusted my judgement. They did
not overtly show that they were worried. By
this time I had been married for about a year
(August ’43) and had to leave a pregnant
wife. This was in 1944.
LIGHTCAP: Tell a bit more about your
experiences I the South Pacific.
HEERENS From Saipan I was flown to the
Pelew Islands which is an atoll island along
with 3 other doctors. We were titled
Battalion Surgeons and became part of the
1st Marine Division, 1st Battalion. We were
in the combat zone in the center of the
Pacific. There we put up and aid station
where we were abler to take care of the
wounded. I incidentally, one can’t dig a “fox
hole” on these islands but we did secure the
island in 2 months. After many days we
finally were prepared a good meal otherwise
we existed on K-Rations. It really was
“scary” being at the “other end of the
world”. In April of ’45 we were with a
marine infantry group that invaded
Okinawa. We had no opposition from the
Japanese when we landed. By then I was
supplied with a 45 revolver but I never had
to use it. I think I would have preferred to
hit the enemy on the head rather then to
shoot him but I never had to make that
decision. The first day after the landing we
still had no opposition. Something of
interest is that in the year of ’45, Easter and
April Fool’s Day were the same day. We
moved across this island in 3 days and
finally reached Yontan Airfield which the
Marines were to protect. There was not
much combat around us until about May 1st.
Our group was actually the last to be in
combat at Okinawa ending June 21, 1945.
LIGHTCAP: Where were you when the
atomic bombs were dropped on Japan?
HEERENS I was in Okinawa for training
when the bomb was dropped, training for the
invasion of Japan. The bombs more or less
ended the conflict with the Japanese. Along
with my battalion, I was sent to China. After
landing at Tanku, China, we boarded a train
to Peking. We even celebrated a holiday (on
the Hi-o River). “The triple 10th”, 10th day
10th month, 10th year, with [Kuomintang
political party]. . . [We] stayed in China
from October to February. I then returned
home via Hawaii.
[Heerens is referring to the Double Tenth
Agreement signed October 10, 1945
recognizing the Kuomintang as the
legitimate ruling party of China and the
Communist Party as a legitimate opposition
party.]
LIGHTCAP: Was it possible to correspond
with your wife and parents regularly? Were
you able to received packages of things you
would like to have?
HEERENS I wrote letters but mostly to my
wife, Marty. I especially liked Limburger
cheese and she would send some to me.
Being surrounded at times with dead
Japanese, I finally decided they smelled
alike, cheese and dead Japanese, and I have
no desire for it anymore.
LIGHTCAP: Do you still keep in touch
with the men you served with? Have you
attended any reunions?
HEERENS The men who were in my
battalion have not had a reunion but there
are several that I do keep in touch with
frequently and have had the opportunity to
visit. One man in my battalion I knew from
my Boy Scout Troop in Evanston. He was
Alex Agase who later became a coach of the
Northwestern football team. Incidentally,
�Doctor Robert Heerens Page 4
two doctors were assigned to a battalion and
my partner is still living.
LIGHTCAP: Did you have to treat
wounded Japanese prisoners?
LIGHTCAP: How long did you serve?
What medals or citations did you received?
HEERENS: No. We killed them all. If I had
to, I would have because they were also
human.
HEERENS I was in the service from
December of 1941 to 1947. When I was
retired, I was a full lieutenant, which
corresponds to a captain in the army. If I had
remained a little longer I would have
become a Lieutenant Colonel. I received two
combat mission citations, presidential
citation, good conduct medal and the
Asiatic/Pacific Theater medal.
LIGHTCAP: Was it difficult to adjust to
civilian life?
HEERENS No! I had no problem adjusting
to civilian life. At first I was in orthopedics
at the Great Lakes Hospital. I was told that
there was a need for doctors in the Rockford
area and my wife and I made the decision to
begin a private general practice here. I had
that practice for 40 years and was associated
with Swedish-American Hospital. I retired
in 1987.
LIGHTCAP: Did you have any doubts
about whether our country could be
successful fighting a war in the European
and Asian Theater?
LIGHTCAP: How many were in a
battalion? How many battalions were you
with? How many servicemen and marines
were you with? How many doctors?
HEERENS: Three battalions each, 1200;
Regiments, 5000; and Divisions 10 to
12,000. There were 2 M.D.s to a battalion, 2
at regiments, 8 M.D.s. The Division had a
company hospital and 4 M.D.s. The division
hospital had many M.D.s. our battalion aid
station was sited 500 to 1000 yards behind
the front lines. The other M.D.s and I would
“leap frog” with our aid stations and
personnel as the troops and the front line
moved.
LIGHTCAP: Wars have just never
accomplished lasting peace. Do you fear that
our technology and weaponry will deter
large-scale wars? Do you think we can
control terrorism in this country?
HEERENS Our present technology and
weaponry will only be good for large-scale
wars. As far as terrorism, we can fight it but
probably never counteract it.
HEERENS: No, because the enemies made
more mistakes.
LIGHTCAP: Did you think the allies were
“doing a good job?”
HEERENS They won but with much waste
and mistakes.
LIGHTCAP: How did you cope with
seeing such devastation with many
wounded, dying or dead?
HEERENS I did my job as humanly as
possible and efficiently as possible. Feelings
were for civilian life.
IN ADDITION: Dr. Heerens and his wife
Martha met in Evanston, Illinois, where she
was in nurses’ training and he was working
as a [? M] and medical student. They
actually met in the operating room. They
moved to Rockford in 1947. They have been
blessed with 5 daughters. Bob has been very
active in the Rockford community serving
on the board of Community Chest. The
Board of Visiting Nurses founded the Board
of Health in 1960. He has also been
President of the Chamber of Commerce,
Winnebago County Medical Society, Illinois
Academy of Family Physicians and Swedish
American Medical Staff, and a member and
�Doctor Robert Heerens Page 5
former president of Northwestern Area
Agency on Aging from 1970 – 19 __. Was a
member of Board of Directors and the Vice
President of American Academy of Family
Physicians. He was also active with
Rockford’s Center for Learning in
Retirement (C.L.R.) and can often be found
talking to retirees at local retirement centers.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
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Midway Village Museum
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Midway Village Museum
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1993-2001
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Midway Village Museum
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English
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
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Lorraine Lightcap
Interviewee
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Dr. Robert Heerens
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Rockford, Illinois
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Dr. Robert Heerens
Date
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October 4, 2001
Description
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Born July 1915, Dr. Robert Heerens became a hospital doctor with the Marines. He died October 19, 2014.
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Midway Village Museum
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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Dwight W. Conrad Page 1
Dwight W. Conrad
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
Edited by Margaret Lofgren
Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois
Phone 815 397 9112
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 2
Dwight Conrad
Hello! Today is March 1st, 1994. My name is Phyllis Gordon. I’m a volunteer with the Rockford Museum
Center which is cooperating with a state wide effort to collect oral histories of Illinois citizens that participated in the momentous events surrounding World War II. We are in the home of Dwight Conrad, 3404
Pioneer Drive, Rockford, Illinois. Mr. Conrad served in the army during World War II. We are interviewing him about his experiences in that war. Dwight, would you please start just by introducing yourself to
us. Please give us your full name and the place and the date of your birth.
CONRAD: This is Dwight Conrad of 3404 Pioneer Drive, Rockford, Illinois. I was born May
7th, 1919, on a farm in Calvin County, Iowa.
GORDON: We would also like to have the
names of each of your parents.
CONRAD: Wallace and Jennie Conrad.
GORDON: Did you have any brothers or sisters?
CONRAD: Yes, I had a sister, Phyllis, who died
the end of last April. Then I have a brother,
Duane, who lives in St. Charles, Missouri, and
he is still with a generating components industry
near St. Charles near St. Louis, too.
GORDON: Are there any details about your
parents and your family that you would like to
give at this time? Or what was life like for you
before the war?
CONRAD: Well, my life started on a farm and I
learned a number of things having to do with
that. I was always interested in farming and farm
life and then we moved into town just before I
was five years old. I started It was a town
called Litton Iowa and it’s on U. S. 20. I went to
grade school and high school there.
GORDON: What thoughts did you have about
the war before the United States became directly
involved in the process?
CONRAD: The main thing is that I was in the
army. I went into the army in April of 41. April
15th, I believe it was and we were on maneuvers
and we had both what it would be like to fight
the Germans and what it would be like to fight
the Japanese. Who knew when a war might start
as far as the United States was concerned? We
practiced both of those on the maneuvers. On
our way back in December December 6th we
got as far as Camp Pickett in the southern part of
Virginia. Then on the 7th, we were eating lunch
there before we went on to Fort Meade, Maryland. At that time then we picked up the broadcast that Pearl Harbor had been bombed. So we
knew that it was going to be quite different. I
was supply sergeant and I was thinking ahead,
“Oh no. I’m going to have to issue ammunition
and new rifles and machine guns and the whole
bit. We went through Washington, D.C. the
night of December the 7th. Everything was dark
and we were using __?__ over the lights so that
the lights shown down, just ahead of the army
vehicles. It was a 6 x 6 army truck. Then when
we got to Fort Meade, Maryland, everyone knew
the next morning was going to be busy as could
be. Well then the __?__ and I started cleaning
rifles and everything else. Clean off Cosmoline
which is real greasy and we had a big job ahead
of us. Finally, then, we got the new weapons
issued.
GORDON: That’s a wonderful account of Pearl
Harbor Day. What event led you to enter military service?
CONRAD: I was drafted. Now they had started
the draft I was among the first people drafted.
I think I have the same number only a different
area of the country as Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy
Stewart ended up going to Officers’ Training
School. He became I know he was at least a
colonel. He mighta been a Brigadier General
before he was through. But I think he had the
1548 which was my last four numbers and that
represented the number of people that had been
drafted at that time.
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 3
GORDON: When and where were you inducted
or did we cover that already?
CONRAD: No. I was inducted in Baltimore,
Maryland, where I had been working with about
15 months with the Social Security Board which
had just started in 1936. I did things like checking out for the Internal Revenue Service. Some
of the people who had Social Security under different names so that they couldn’t be traced and
things like that. All of this was with IBM machines [which advances to what] I ended up doing in the Pacific.
GORDON: How old were you when you were
inducted?
ready to go and it turned out it was a Matsonia
and there 12 ships in the convoy. We left there
around the 5th of May of 42.We started out.
There was a couple of ships that were going to
go to the Philippines but they didn’t. They
changed their mind. They had a last minute
check and found out that the town had fallen and
Corregidor probably would be next. Meanwhile,
I guess MacArthur was leaving the Philippines.
We went between North and South Islands of
New Zealand through Cook Strait. We landed
outside of Melbourne, Australia, at a place
called Williamstown. Then we bivouacked in a
park called Royal Park. They had a zoo there
and early in the morning, about five o’clock,
you’d hear the lions roaring and you hear sheep
bleating
CONRAD: I was 22 years old.
GORDON: What happened after you were inducted? Where were you sent and where did you
take your basic training?
CONRAD: I took my basic training at Fort
Meade, Maryland, which was with the 175th Infantry Regiment of the 29th Division.
GORDON: What were you trained to do?
CONRAD: At that time, I was training to be an
infantryman. I wasn’t real happy about that. I
didn’t like to think that I was actually going to
kill people. When I was a kid, I used to go hunting but that was different. They were squirrels
some things like that. Anyway I got to thinking
about it and I heard that there was organizing
going on for people who had experience with
IBM machines and they would be using them in
trailers and they would go to different divisions
to keep records of those particular soldiers. So
that way then, I ended up leaving my job as a
supply sergeant and joined this other __?__ as a
First Machine Records Unit they called it. About
the first of May of 42, we went out to California
aboard a troop train. That’s another interesting
thing. We ended up in the cupola in the last car
of the train, you know, on guard and everything
else and whenever the train would stop in different places, we’d have to get out and guard.
When we got out to San Francisco, we bivouacked for a few days until the troop ship was
GORDON: I don’t want to hear this, I don’t
think.
CONRAD: They were sending the sheep to
market and the lions would roar because they
could hear the sheep bleating. Then we left Melbourne by truck convoy and there were a couple
of cars, too, and went up to Sydney. We bivouacked outside of Sydney at a place that is now a
race track, believe it or not. It was there to see
when we went back in 88. We trained there and
I was I kind of led I had been also involved with chemical warfare being a noncom from that. We had different little samples of
things that would decide whether it was mustard
gas or different I can’t think of the others at
the moment. Anyway we went on up to Brisbane. We did some training there and got acquainted with some of the people that were
going to be up in New Guinea. By that time we
knew we were going to New Guinea. We went
to New Guinea later on in 42 and on the way we
got a message that we should pull into Townsville Harbor which is on the northern part of
Australia, that they were bombing Port Moresby
where we were headed. So then we had to wait
for that. Then we finally crossed the what’s
the name of the sea I can’t think of it now
and landed in Port Moresby. The first night we
put up tents. We didn’t realize we were on a
hillside by the time we got through pitching the
tents. It rained and all the water run down
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 4
through some of our belongings were down the
hill. Then we found out that we were going to
keep records for what was called the Fifth Army
Air Corps, General George Kinney. We had to
get acquainted with that and they were setting up
an airfield there outside of Port Moresby. It
turned out we were right next to I can’t think
of the word now where they shoot down
planes. Anyway, that was a lot of loud noise,
too. One of the things I remember about that was
that we got out into the countryside out in the
out really out back of us. There was [coony
grass] which is about 6 or 8 feet tall sometime.
You could hide in it even. We went on up to a
place called __?__. That was the start of the
people going over the Owen Stanley Range to
Buna and __?__ which were the two places
where they were trying to drive out the Japanese.
Well, they didn’t do that. I remember being under that mosquito netting and then I seen this
mosquito on my arm. Its head was down and
standing up. I said, “Oh, oh. A mosquito. Then I
got malaria. I spent 15 days back in Sydney at a
army hospital and then came back again. I didn’t
know what was going to happen next. I rejoined
the same machine records unit and later on we
got plane loaded along with the trailers that had
all this IBM equipment and we went on up to
Hollandia. We went over the Owen Stanley
Range which is probably somewhere around 15
or 18 thousand feet. We landed at Hollandia
which is now called [Sakarn], I think. It’s part of
the Netherland East Indies. We went 20 miles up
onto a plateau which is about 8400 feet up. One
of the first things that happened up there was we
met Lanny Ross and Lanny Ross was trying to
get people to practice for the Easter of 45. As it
turned out, we were also it was just before
Christmas we were also practicing some
Christmas music so that he could move us
around to make us blend better. This was in
__?__. Some of the Japanese up in the mountains and up as high as 15,000 feet heard all of
the singing and I would guess as many as 50,
before it was over, came down and surrendered
to us as we were in what we call a chow line.
CONRAD: Yah. They wanted to hear beautiful
music and they came into surrender. That’s funny. They had their weaponry with them. They
had their gun loaded. Then finally, we get the
word that they have taken enough of Leyte to
prepare to go up to the Philippines. They were
starting to well, just ahead of us the First
Calvary Division to land and we got on board a
Liberty ship where everybody was in a hammock. When we got up into the South China
Sea, we hit part of a typhoon. It was pretty serious they were banging their head on the
bulkhead and saying, “Oh, no . And things
like that. Then we finally got to the Philippines
and we got into Manila right after the First Calvary Division. Temporarily, until they could get
Clark Field cleared of some of the bombed out
American planes about three years before
that. We stayed bivouacked in the tents at Jose
Rizal Stadium. That was interesting, too, because that area was for the 1940 Olympics. They
had an auditorium; they had a baseball field; a
track field and they had all of those different
things. Another thing I remember about that was
that these poor people, the Filipinos when we
had a chow line they were just in there with a tin
can and maybe a spoon or something they had
got from somewhere and we shared our meals
with them. Things started changing after an army truck was blown up on a bridge over the Las
Cruces River. Then the Japanese were driven out
of Manila and up into the mountains. Well, it
turned out they were there [Novaliches] Dam but
we didn’t have to worry about that for a while.
[Novaliches] Dam is a water reservoir for Manila. We started putting up lister bags because
the water mains were all blown up. We put up
lister bags which hold water. They’re canvas
bags. Then the next thing, MacArthur got there
and he was making a speech welcoming everybody and saying, “It’s good to be back. Thanks,
fellows, for putting up the lister bags around.
Nobody’s going to get thirsty anyway. By the
way, speaking of thirsty, we’ve opened the
brewery and we’re going to reopen the distillery
in three days.”
GORDON: So your singing caused them to surrender.
GORDON: First things, first.
CONRAD: Later on they had Walter Cronkite
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 5
with one of these things with public broadcasting, there was MacArthur saying the same things
again over here on MacArthur’s right, there I
was with a __?__ carbine across my shoulder,
you know.
GORDON: You saw yourself.
CONRAD: Yah. I couldn’t believe it. I said, “It
can’t be me. It is.” That is where I was standing.
So that was a surprise. In Manila there is what
they called Los Muros that is the old walled city.
We went in there and cleared it out. There was a
place where there was a bank. Inside that bank,
there was a big vault with Japanese occupational
money. That’s another thing. He was kind of
surprised. We got in on a number of things. One
of the things that I remember about New Guinea
was there was a Japanese pilot with a little zero
and he come flying over and we called him Russian Machine Charlie because he didn’t do anything. He just flew over. Nobody shot at him or
anything. They said, “Here comes Russian Machine Charlie. Don’t anybody shoot.” I think
he was all by himself somewhere. Where he was
getting gasoline to keep that flight going, I don’t
know. We saw him for over a year. In New
Guinea, also, we had a short wave radio. We
would listen to Tokyo Rose and she would say,
“Hello, you Yankees down in New Guinea. Do
you know what your wives and girlfriends are
doing while you’re out there sweating?”
GORDON: Did this change your mental attitude?
CONRAD: No, it didn’t bother us. We thought
it was funny. There was another thing, too. We
ran across Lew Ayres. He had been a conscientious objector and he was working in grave registration with a chaplain, as a chaplain assistant.
The chaplain’s name, if I remember correctly
was Father Albert. Another interesting thing that
we ran across somebody, people like Lew Ayres,
Lanny Ross and MacArthur, of course. We had
real close contact with him. Just outside of Port
Moresby where this airfield was, Charles Lindberg,everybody was saying, well, he’s probably gone to Germany to become a Nazi, but he
wasn’t. He was down there in the Pacific and he
was taking up these P38 Lightnings and testing
them for different distances because they wanted
to fly the P38s as escort for the bombers. They
finally got to where they got the gas tanks all set
and everything so that they could carry extra gas
to fly further than they had before. And Lindberg, from what we learned because we were
close to the airfield itself, shot down something
like five Japanese planes while he was there.
That was interesting, too, because they were saying he was a spy and a traitor and everything
else. It turned out that this was a war secret and
they weren’t going to say anything about it. It
came out in 1946 it was the best kept secret of
World War II. It wasn’t because when I got
home May 17th of 1942, I was telling everybody
in this little town of Litton about watching Lindberg just about every day I was in New Guinea
and then a year later have them say it was the
best kept secret.
GORDON: It’s something I didn’t know. What
did you think of the war so far?
CONRAD: You mean observing iteverything
that went on? It was frightening. I got to the
point where didn’t care about or I couldn’t see
the reason for all the killing. There was a lot of
that. I mean where some of us got the other side
of the picture was when the Japanese surrendered outside of Hollandia in Dutch New Guinea. As it turned out, we got acquainted with
them and out of about 45 to 50, I’m not sure exactly, there was about ten of them who spoke
English. That was surprising.
GORDON: Sure is.
CONRAD: In May of 45 they let me go home
on furloughat least I thought it was. I went out
to what they called the troop carrier command
where they had the planes that were the C54s
that were flying back to the States with some of
the people that served three years or so overseas.
We flew to Tacloban and Leyte. We were outside the city itselfup in the mountains. The
next morning, I woke up, there was the travelling troop of Oklahoma and we could hear
somebody yelling down the road. They had a
microphone apparently and it was Joe E. Brown.
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 6
GORDON: Oh my.
CONRAD: So there was things like that. A day
or two later we got clearance to fly to Guam. We
flew to Guam and then after evening meal and
seeing the first B29s, we flew on to Kwajalein
and that was really spot because there was all
what is that stuff that starts with a “C” (Coral). Anyway this is an island that is just about
like rock.
GORDON: Atolls or whatever.
CONRAD: Yah. It was an atoll. Then from
Kwajaleinwe just landed there and gassed up
and then we flew on to Johnstown Island, which
is south of Hawaii and stayed all night there. No,
we just stayed and evening there and then we
flew on to Hickam Field in Hawaii just outside
of Honolulu. We went to bed and along about
10we got there about 5:00 in the morningwent to bed and woke up about 10 because
people was talking. That, of course, is an air
force base and so they said, “Hey, they’re going
down into Honolulu. Let’s go, too.” Then we
find out, “You guys are on orders, you can’t go.”
We got the fly out orders, well, we waited the
whole day drinking a lot of pineapple juice and
that evening, we took off for San Francisco area.
Trying to think of that famous market in that
area. It starts with “H”.
GORDON: Oh. I should know that, too. We’ll
think of it later on as we go along.
CONRAD: We flew there and landed and then I
had to go to Presidio where they checked for my
malaria and they said, “You’re okay to go home
on furlough.” I waited another day and took off
by train for the St. Louis area. We got into Jefferson Barracks outside of St. Louis. They were
working on the first people who could get out on
the point system. I had 105 points fromthat’s
just regular service and overseas service and
some combat service, too. They said, “Well,
we’ll get you out.” I was in the second group to
be discharged. I signed up for reserve.
GORDON: We are continuing our conversation
with Dwight Conrad. He’s remembering his time
in the Pacific and especially some thoughts
about combat and General MacArthur.
CONRAD: When we were in New Guineathe
150th, I’m not sure of the number nowthey
were the early parachute troopers. They were all
engineers and they were dropped near [Lae]
Peninsula in a place called __?__. They were
building airstrips to move the Air Force on up
and MacArthur flew in his own B17. When they
got over to where they were supposed to jump
and their machinery and everything had been
parachuted down first. Then they found out they
were only 500 feet up and MacArthur told them
to jump. There was a couple of dozen of the fellows that were kind of banged up after that.
Some of them had broken legs. That was about
the time I went into the field hospital for the first
time with malaria. I got to talk with all of them.
They were all very upset with MacArthur for
making them jump at that low altitude.
GORDON: They couldn’t have time to get their
parachute out.
CONRAD: No. Speaking of combat, though, we
were bombed a number of times and that is
scary. If you were on the beach which I was one
time, you just kept hoping they didn’t spot you
or anything.
GORDON: No protection.
CONRAD: There were machine gun bullets
flying around, too. Anyway, I didn’t get hit. I
was very lucky.
GORDON: Did you write very many letters
home?
CONRAD: Yah. I have some of them upstairs
but, of course, there’s a lot of it was censored,
too, because you couldn’t tell about any of the
war.
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 7
GORDON: Did you receive many letters or
packages? What kind of things did you like to
get in the packets?
CONRAD: Everybody would always ask when
anybody opened the packages, “Oh, you got
cookies? Maybe they’re good yet.” You know
and all that. It didn’t take too long. They flew in
a lot of that. Of course, then the Navy was moving around and the Navy brought in some of the
packages, too. When we got to New Guinea for
the first time, we ate with a Navy 52nd Bombardment Squadron I guess it was called. They
had all these PBYs which were real slow, 109
miles an hour plane. I got a ride one time when
they were testing out some of them that had got
shot up a bit. We flew on up to Rabaul. I could
look down and see this little town. Rabaul is in
New Britain and it’s north of New Guinea.
When I got back though the company commander says, “Don’t ever do that again. I’m going to put you on probation. I’m not going to
take your sergeant stripes from you. Just going
to put you on probation.” Anytime I had to go
anywhere for anything at all, I had to go to him
to get permission to do it.
GORDON: Did you ever have to help retrieve a
wounded buddy from a field of combat? Did you
ever have to capture any enemy prisoners?
CONRAD: Christmas is the only one that we
really celebrated. Usually some of us would get
packages by that time depending upon when
they were sent out. APO 29 was something else
because they could get all jammed up. Quite a
few had the same addresspostal number.
GORDON: Have you remained in contact with
any of your World War II companions?
CONRAD: There was one in Chicago the last I
knew, John Rex Fry, and I went in to see him
one time, he and his she was a New Zealander. He met her in Australia and did get to go to
the wedding before we went up to New Guinea.
I went in to see him. She was working for the
telephone company then. She was a telephone
operator but I can’t remember what Rex was
doing.
GORDON: You told us about your military
rank about being a sergeant. Is there anything
else about your military rank or decorations?
CONRAD: We got a bronze star medal. I guess
that would be the main thing. The usual things
for different places you served, trying to think of
the name.
GORDON: Campaign decorations?
CONRAD: Yah. We got some of those, too.
CONRAD: No, only the Japanese that gave up.
That was an interesting thing on that plateau
though. Any movement at all that we made, we
moved at night and we would have these lights
and everything. I sat on the front, one of the
front fenders and looked down and I could see
nothing down there but what you could see at
the bottom and then down the mountain. I
don’t recall ever helping take care of prisoners
although I saw some of that.
GORDON: You told us how you were ready for
music for Easter. Were you in a combat area?
Do you remember anything about traditional
holidays such as Thanksgiving or Christmas?
GORDON: Do you remember those campaigns?
CONRAD: Mostly it was a case of just being at
the right place at the right time. I remember gunfire and that. There was some of that in Manila
yet.
GORDON: You told us how you were sent
home on furlough and then you had enough
points to stay home so now you’re back in civilian life. How did you get along with the men
with whom you had the greatest contact when
you were in the army?
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 8
CONRAD: I got along fine. As soon as I got
home and out of the service, I wrote back to the
company and told them what the whole situation
is, how you get out and all that sort of thing. The
company commander then wrote and said, “This
is crazy. I wish I had known that you were going
to get out, I would have made you a Staff Sergeant.” So I was thinking maybe I should go
back.
GORDON: Is there anything that you would do
differently if you could do it over again.
CONRAD: I don’t think so. I’ll tell you about
the infantry was Company C of the 175th Infantry Division which landed at Normandy Beachhead, at Omaha Beachhead I guess it was. When
the war was over I ran into this one fellow who
said there was 21 of them out of the 189 that was
in the company that we’re alive including me he
says. He says, “I’m very lucky to be back.” He
got wounded. He went through the Normandy
landing and then the Battle of the Bulge, too, so
I was thinking how lucky can you get. And the
fellow that was our Staff Sergeant, in fact, I remember when he was corporal, ended up as the
company commander. You could see how things
changed going to Europe.
GORDON: Very much.
CONRAD: I was thinking I was very, very
lucky.
GORDON: Yes, you were.
CONRAD: The one thing I felt kind of bad
about at the time, the girlfriend that I had, we
were engaged and she broke the engagement. I
don’t know why and married this fellow who
was in the Merchant Marineshe was about to
have a baby. That didn’t make me feel good either but that’s the way it was. Then I thoughtI
was staying in Washington D. C. for a while. I
knew a fellow that was in the Navy. He was as-
signed to office duty or something you call
itheadquarters duty, I guess you call it. I visited with him a while and then I decided maybe I
should go to college. I didn’t have a chance to
go to college. I went to business college and
took accounting and that’s probably how I got
into Social Security Board. My sister and brother-in-law were expecting their first child in 45
in Columbus, Ohio, so I went to Ohio State.
While I was studying, I would have this little
girl who was Diane giving her her bottle and
everythingthey went outand studying at the
same time. Diane became a special person. She
lives in Fort Dodge, Iowa, now because she had
gone to high school there. My sister and brotherin-law lived all over. They lived inbesides
Columbusthey lived in Des Moines, Iowa,
Columbus, went down to Springdale, Arkansas.
She worked there. My sister did all the IBM
workcomputer workfor Tyson and then
they went to a couple places in Texas and then
they come back to Fort Dodge, Cedar Rapids
and then they went out to the Denver area,
Golden, Colorado.
GORDON: They did move around.
CONRAD: Yes, they did.
GORDON: How did you learn about VE Day or
VJ Day and what was your reaction? Do you
remember those instances?
CONRAD: I was in Baltimore on VJ Day and
we already knew that they dropped the atomic
bombs in a couple of places in Japan. They had a
rally down town and I was in on that rally. They
really hooped it up for a while. I had one drink.
My malaria started coming back and I had to go
over to Walter Reed Hospital in Washington to
get that taken care of.
GORDON: What was your opinion of our use
of the atomic bomb when it was used against the
Japanese in August of 45?
CONRAD: I think at that time it was mostly
just a celebration that the war was over. I didn’t
reallywell, some Japanese I hated mostly of
the way they treated the Filipinos. The Filipi-
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 9
nosI’ve never seen anybody so poor living
inthey just set up a board and got in behind it.
That board would be against a building or something and they got in behind it and wrapped a
blanket around them and things like that.
GORDON: They had terrible living conditions.
CONRAD: They did have. And some of the
things I saw during the Marcos deal, when they
were focusing on Marcos and everything, just
hadn’t improved that much.
GORDON: We would like to know when and
where you were officially discharged from the
service.
CONRAD: At Jefferson Barracks, Missouri, on
the south side of St. Louis.
GORDON: Do you have a disability rating or a
pension?
CONRAD: No, except the only thing that the
government did pay for one-halfI got from
malaria I had this stomach disease and that
caused cataracts. When I had the cataract operations in 1959, at the VA research hospital in
Chicago, the government paid half of it and my
insurance paid the other half.
GORDON: What’s your opinion of the care you
received in the VA Hospital?
CONRAD: I thought it was very good. I had a
chance to go to a chapel and talk things over and
pray talked to a lot of people who were wounded
and everything wasa lot of things were happening to them similar to what had happened to
me. One fellow had a plate in his head from going over a bomb that was buried.
GORDON: The mines?
CONRAD: The mines, yah, in Europe. I met a
lot of people and it was very good just to talk
over some of the things because it cleared my
mind of a lot of deals.
GORDON: So that was one good thing about
the VA Hospital. Do you have any contact with
the Veterans’ Administration now?
CONRAD: No except for when somebodyI’m the Commander of Daniel American
Legion Post #864 and we’ve had a few people
trying to seek help I recommended contact the
VA for that.
GORDON: Would you like to tell us about how
your family supported you during your military
life? Did their letters keep your spirits up?
CONRAD: My mother’s letters did. She was
the one that wrote most of the time. My father
just once in a great while because he was busy.
He went from farming and he started a radio
shopbattery radios in those days. Later on I
think he was ready to get into television because
television was really coming to here and he was
blown off a ladder putting up a second story
storm window for the winter. He was blown off
a ladder and broke ribs and ruptured spleen. That
was in 1957. It was on Thanksgiving Day. That
was a sad thing.
GORDON: Is there anything else you would
like to tell us.
CONRAD: Let’s see.
GORDON: Thank you, Dwight. This concludes
our interview with Dwight Conrad unless he
thinks of something more he would like to say.
Is there any highlight of your service that we
haven’t mentioned?
CONRAD: I can’t think of anything at the moment. I might remember later. I do remember
coming in behind the First Cavalry Division and
seeing some of that and seeing the mortars were
shooting the Japanese out of theThat’s when I
decided war is not for me. People were jumping
out of windows and everything else and they
were shooting up those beautiful buildings. Ma-
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 10
nila was a beautiful place before the war.
GORDON: I’ll bet it was. Would you like to go
back and see it?
see us at Santa Thomas?” and I says, “Well, I
saw some of you.” All I thought of at that time
was what a terrible shame and it turns out he
was one of them.
GORDON: He was a prisoner of war there?
CONRAD: I might some day although I don’t
know how soon. I talked tothere’s a woman
who married a former priest here in Rockford
and he wasI think he probably still works in
the library, I’m not sure now. She and I have
talked about some of the things in the Philippines. She didn’t come from Manila. She came
from somewhere elseLuzon, I believe. The
people that were at Santa Thomas, that was a
very sad situation because they didn’t half feed
them. What was surprising is that this one fellow
in Columbus that lived next door to my sister
and brother-in law were living, He says, “I remember you from somewhere. Were you in the
war?” I says, “Yah” And he said, “Were you in
the Philippines?” And I said, “Yes.” “Did you
CONRAD: Yah. He had got down to about 60
pounds and he had weighed about 150. He had
put on quite a bit of weight. I think he weighed
135 at that time, by the time I had met him
again.
GORDON: Pretty severe conditions.
CONRAD: I should say. That’s why everything
about war kind of turns me off any more
GORDON: This has been a very interesting
interview. This concludes our interview with
Dwight Conrad.
�
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Dwight W. Conrad Page 1
Dwight W. Conrad
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
Edited by Margaret Lofgren
Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois
Phone 815 397 9112
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 2
Dwight Conrad
Hello! Today is March 1st, 1994. My name is Phyllis Gordon. I’m a volunteer with the Rockford Museum
Center which is cooperating with a state wide effort to collect oral histories of Illinois citizens that participated in the momentous events surrounding World War II. We are in the home of Dwight Conrad, 3404
Pioneer Drive, Rockford, Illinois. Mr. Conrad served in the army during World War II. We are interviewing him about his experiences in that war. Dwight, would you please start just by introducing yourself to
us. Please give us your full name and the place and the date of your birth.
CONRAD: This is Dwight Conrad of 3404 Pioneer Drive, Rockford, Illinois. I was born May
7th, 1919, on a farm in Calvin County, Iowa.
GORDON: We would also like to have the
names of each of your parents.
CONRAD: Wallace and Jennie Conrad.
GORDON: Did you have any brothers or sisters?
CONRAD: Yes, I had a sister, Phyllis, who died
the end of last April. Then I have a brother,
Duane, who lives in St. Charles, Missouri, and
he is still with a generating components industry
near St. Charles near St. Louis, too.
GORDON: Are there any details about your
parents and your family that you would like to
give at this time? Or what was life like for you
before the war?
CONRAD: Well, my life started on a farm and I
learned a number of things having to do with
that. I was always interested in farming and farm
life and then we moved into town just before I
was five years old. I started It was a town
called Litton Iowa and it’s on U. S. 20. I went to
grade school and high school there.
GORDON: What thoughts did you have about
the war before the United States became directly
involved in the process?
CONRAD: The main thing is that I was in the
army. I went into the army in April of 41. April
15th, I believe it was and we were on maneuvers
and we had both what it would be like to fight
the Germans and what it would be like to fight
the Japanese. Who knew when a war might start
as far as the United States was concerned? We
practiced both of those on the maneuvers. On
our way back in December December 6th we
got as far as Camp Pickett in the southern part of
Virginia. Then on the 7th, we were eating lunch
there before we went on to Fort Meade, Maryland. At that time then we picked up the broadcast that Pearl Harbor had been bombed. So we
knew that it was going to be quite different. I
was supply sergeant and I was thinking ahead,
“Oh no. I’m going to have to issue ammunition
and new rifles and machine guns and the whole
bit. We went through Washington, D.C. the
night of December the 7th. Everything was dark
and we were using __?__ over the lights so that
the lights shown down, just ahead of the army
vehicles. It was a 6 x 6 army truck. Then when
we got to Fort Meade, Maryland, everyone knew
the next morning was going to be busy as could
be. Well then the __?__ and I started cleaning
rifles and everything else. Clean off Cosmoline
which is real greasy and we had a big job ahead
of us. Finally, then, we got the new weapons
issued.
GORDON: That’s a wonderful account of Pearl
Harbor Day. What event led you to enter military service?
CONRAD: I was drafted. Now they had started
the draft I was among the first people drafted.
I think I have the same number only a different
area of the country as Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy
Stewart ended up going to Officers’ Training
School. He became I know he was at least a
colonel. He mighta been a Brigadier General
before he was through. But I think he had the
1548 which was my last four numbers and that
represented the number of people that had been
drafted at that time.
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 3
GORDON: When and where were you inducted
or did we cover that already?
CONRAD: No. I was inducted in Baltimore,
Maryland, where I had been working with about
15 months with the Social Security Board which
had just started in 1936. I did things like checking out for the Internal Revenue Service. Some
of the people who had Social Security under different names so that they couldn’t be traced and
things like that. All of this was with IBM machines [which advances to what] I ended up doing in the Pacific.
GORDON: How old were you when you were
inducted?
ready to go and it turned out it was a Matsonia
and there 12 ships in the convoy. We left there
around the 5th of May of 42.We started out.
There was a couple of ships that were going to
go to the Philippines but they didn’t. They
changed their mind. They had a last minute
check and found out that the town had fallen and
Corregidor probably would be next. Meanwhile,
I guess MacArthur was leaving the Philippines.
We went between North and South Islands of
New Zealand through Cook Strait. We landed
outside of Melbourne, Australia, at a place
called Williamstown. Then we bivouacked in a
park called Royal Park. They had a zoo there
and early in the morning, about five o’clock,
you’d hear the lions roaring and you hear sheep
bleating
CONRAD: I was 22 years old.
GORDON: What happened after you were inducted? Where were you sent and where did you
take your basic training?
CONRAD: I took my basic training at Fort
Meade, Maryland, which was with the 175th Infantry Regiment of the 29th Division.
GORDON: What were you trained to do?
CONRAD: At that time, I was training to be an
infantryman. I wasn’t real happy about that. I
didn’t like to think that I was actually going to
kill people. When I was a kid, I used to go hunting but that was different. They were squirrels
some things like that. Anyway I got to thinking
about it and I heard that there was organizing
going on for people who had experience with
IBM machines and they would be using them in
trailers and they would go to different divisions
to keep records of those particular soldiers. So
that way then, I ended up leaving my job as a
supply sergeant and joined this other __?__ as a
First Machine Records Unit they called it. About
the first of May of 42, we went out to California
aboard a troop train. That’s another interesting
thing. We ended up in the cupola in the last car
of the train, you know, on guard and everything
else and whenever the train would stop in different places, we’d have to get out and guard.
When we got out to San Francisco, we bivouacked for a few days until the troop ship was
GORDON: I don’t want to hear this, I don’t
think.
CONRAD: They were sending the sheep to
market and the lions would roar because they
could hear the sheep bleating. Then we left Melbourne by truck convoy and there were a couple
of cars, too, and went up to Sydney. We bivouacked outside of Sydney at a place that is now a
race track, believe it or not. It was there to see
when we went back in 88. We trained there and
I was I kind of led I had been also involved with chemical warfare being a noncom from that. We had different little samples of
things that would decide whether it was mustard
gas or different I can’t think of the others at
the moment. Anyway we went on up to Brisbane. We did some training there and got acquainted with some of the people that were
going to be up in New Guinea. By that time we
knew we were going to New Guinea. We went
to New Guinea later on in 42 and on the way we
got a message that we should pull into Townsville Harbor which is on the northern part of
Australia, that they were bombing Port Moresby
where we were headed. So then we had to wait
for that. Then we finally crossed the what’s
the name of the sea I can’t think of it now
and landed in Port Moresby. The first night we
put up tents. We didn’t realize we were on a
hillside by the time we got through pitching the
tents. It rained and all the water run down
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 4
through some of our belongings were down the
hill. Then we found out that we were going to
keep records for what was called the Fifth Army
Air Corps, General George Kinney. We had to
get acquainted with that and they were setting up
an airfield there outside of Port Moresby. It
turned out we were right next to I can’t think
of the word now where they shoot down
planes. Anyway, that was a lot of loud noise,
too. One of the things I remember about that was
that we got out into the countryside out in the
out really out back of us. There was [coony
grass] which is about 6 or 8 feet tall sometime.
You could hide in it even. We went on up to a
place called __?__. That was the start of the
people going over the Owen Stanley Range to
Buna and __?__ which were the two places
where they were trying to drive out the Japanese.
Well, they didn’t do that. I remember being under that mosquito netting and then I seen this
mosquito on my arm. Its head was down and
standing up. I said, “Oh, oh. A mosquito. Then I
got malaria. I spent 15 days back in Sydney at a
army hospital and then came back again. I didn’t
know what was going to happen next. I rejoined
the same machine records unit and later on we
got plane loaded along with the trailers that had
all this IBM equipment and we went on up to
Hollandia. We went over the Owen Stanley
Range which is probably somewhere around 15
or 18 thousand feet. We landed at Hollandia
which is now called [Sakarn], I think. It’s part of
the Netherland East Indies. We went 20 miles up
onto a plateau which is about 8400 feet up. One
of the first things that happened up there was we
met Lanny Ross and Lanny Ross was trying to
get people to practice for the Easter of 45. As it
turned out, we were also it was just before
Christmas we were also practicing some
Christmas music so that he could move us
around to make us blend better. This was in
__?__. Some of the Japanese up in the mountains and up as high as 15,000 feet heard all of
the singing and I would guess as many as 50,
before it was over, came down and surrendered
to us as we were in what we call a chow line.
CONRAD: Yah. They wanted to hear beautiful
music and they came into surrender. That’s funny. They had their weaponry with them. They
had their gun loaded. Then finally, we get the
word that they have taken enough of Leyte to
prepare to go up to the Philippines. They were
starting to well, just ahead of us the First
Calvary Division to land and we got on board a
Liberty ship where everybody was in a hammock. When we got up into the South China
Sea, we hit part of a typhoon. It was pretty serious they were banging their head on the
bulkhead and saying, “Oh, no . And things
like that. Then we finally got to the Philippines
and we got into Manila right after the First Calvary Division. Temporarily, until they could get
Clark Field cleared of some of the bombed out
American planes about three years before
that. We stayed bivouacked in the tents at Jose
Rizal Stadium. That was interesting, too, because that area was for the 1940 Olympics. They
had an auditorium; they had a baseball field; a
track field and they had all of those different
things. Another thing I remember about that was
that these poor people, the Filipinos when we
had a chow line they were just in there with a tin
can and maybe a spoon or something they had
got from somewhere and we shared our meals
with them. Things started changing after an army truck was blown up on a bridge over the Las
Cruces River. Then the Japanese were driven out
of Manila and up into the mountains. Well, it
turned out they were there [Novaliches] Dam but
we didn’t have to worry about that for a while.
[Novaliches] Dam is a water reservoir for Manila. We started putting up lister bags because
the water mains were all blown up. We put up
lister bags which hold water. They’re canvas
bags. Then the next thing, MacArthur got there
and he was making a speech welcoming everybody and saying, “It’s good to be back. Thanks,
fellows, for putting up the lister bags around.
Nobody’s going to get thirsty anyway. By the
way, speaking of thirsty, we’ve opened the
brewery and we’re going to reopen the distillery
in three days.”
GORDON: So your singing caused them to surrender.
GORDON: First things, first.
CONRAD: Later on they had Walter Cronkite
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 5
with one of these things with public broadcasting, there was MacArthur saying the same things
again over here on MacArthur’s right, there I
was with a __?__ carbine across my shoulder,
you know.
GORDON: You saw yourself.
CONRAD: Yah. I couldn’t believe it. I said, “It
can’t be me. It is.” That is where I was standing.
So that was a surprise. In Manila there is what
they called Los Muros that is the old walled city.
We went in there and cleared it out. There was a
place where there was a bank. Inside that bank,
there was a big vault with Japanese occupational
money. That’s another thing. He was kind of
surprised. We got in on a number of things. One
of the things that I remember about New Guinea
was there was a Japanese pilot with a little zero
and he come flying over and we called him Russian Machine Charlie because he didn’t do anything. He just flew over. Nobody shot at him or
anything. They said, “Here comes Russian Machine Charlie. Don’t anybody shoot.” I think
he was all by himself somewhere. Where he was
getting gasoline to keep that flight going, I don’t
know. We saw him for over a year. In New
Guinea, also, we had a short wave radio. We
would listen to Tokyo Rose and she would say,
“Hello, you Yankees down in New Guinea. Do
you know what your wives and girlfriends are
doing while you’re out there sweating?”
GORDON: Did this change your mental attitude?
CONRAD: No, it didn’t bother us. We thought
it was funny. There was another thing, too. We
ran across Lew Ayres. He had been a conscientious objector and he was working in grave registration with a chaplain, as a chaplain assistant.
The chaplain’s name, if I remember correctly
was Father Albert. Another interesting thing that
we ran across somebody, people like Lew Ayres,
Lanny Ross and MacArthur, of course. We had
real close contact with him. Just outside of Port
Moresby where this airfield was, Charles Lindberg,everybody was saying, well, he’s probably gone to Germany to become a Nazi, but he
wasn’t. He was down there in the Pacific and he
was taking up these P38 Lightnings and testing
them for different distances because they wanted
to fly the P38s as escort for the bombers. They
finally got to where they got the gas tanks all set
and everything so that they could carry extra gas
to fly further than they had before. And Lindberg, from what we learned because we were
close to the airfield itself, shot down something
like five Japanese planes while he was there.
That was interesting, too, because they were saying he was a spy and a traitor and everything
else. It turned out that this was a war secret and
they weren’t going to say anything about it. It
came out in 1946 it was the best kept secret of
World War II. It wasn’t because when I got
home May 17th of 1942, I was telling everybody
in this little town of Litton about watching Lindberg just about every day I was in New Guinea
and then a year later have them say it was the
best kept secret.
GORDON: It’s something I didn’t know. What
did you think of the war so far?
CONRAD: You mean observing iteverything
that went on? It was frightening. I got to the
point where didn’t care about or I couldn’t see
the reason for all the killing. There was a lot of
that. I mean where some of us got the other side
of the picture was when the Japanese surrendered outside of Hollandia in Dutch New Guinea. As it turned out, we got acquainted with
them and out of about 45 to 50, I’m not sure exactly, there was about ten of them who spoke
English. That was surprising.
GORDON: Sure is.
CONRAD: In May of 45 they let me go home
on furloughat least I thought it was. I went out
to what they called the troop carrier command
where they had the planes that were the C54s
that were flying back to the States with some of
the people that served three years or so overseas.
We flew to Tacloban and Leyte. We were outside the city itselfup in the mountains. The
next morning, I woke up, there was the travelling troop of Oklahoma and we could hear
somebody yelling down the road. They had a
microphone apparently and it was Joe E. Brown.
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 6
GORDON: Oh my.
CONRAD: So there was things like that. A day
or two later we got clearance to fly to Guam. We
flew to Guam and then after evening meal and
seeing the first B29s, we flew on to Kwajalein
and that was really spot because there was all
what is that stuff that starts with a “C” (Coral). Anyway this is an island that is just about
like rock.
GORDON: Atolls or whatever.
CONRAD: Yah. It was an atoll. Then from
Kwajaleinwe just landed there and gassed up
and then we flew on to Johnstown Island, which
is south of Hawaii and stayed all night there. No,
we just stayed and evening there and then we
flew on to Hickam Field in Hawaii just outside
of Honolulu. We went to bed and along about
10we got there about 5:00 in the morningwent to bed and woke up about 10 because
people was talking. That, of course, is an air
force base and so they said, “Hey, they’re going
down into Honolulu. Let’s go, too.” Then we
find out, “You guys are on orders, you can’t go.”
We got the fly out orders, well, we waited the
whole day drinking a lot of pineapple juice and
that evening, we took off for San Francisco area.
Trying to think of that famous market in that
area. It starts with “H”.
GORDON: Oh. I should know that, too. We’ll
think of it later on as we go along.
CONRAD: We flew there and landed and then I
had to go to Presidio where they checked for my
malaria and they said, “You’re okay to go home
on furlough.” I waited another day and took off
by train for the St. Louis area. We got into Jefferson Barracks outside of St. Louis. They were
working on the first people who could get out on
the point system. I had 105 points fromthat’s
just regular service and overseas service and
some combat service, too. They said, “Well,
we’ll get you out.” I was in the second group to
be discharged. I signed up for reserve.
GORDON: We are continuing our conversation
with Dwight Conrad. He’s remembering his time
in the Pacific and especially some thoughts
about combat and General MacArthur.
CONRAD: When we were in New Guineathe
150th, I’m not sure of the number nowthey
were the early parachute troopers. They were all
engineers and they were dropped near [Lae]
Peninsula in a place called __?__. They were
building airstrips to move the Air Force on up
and MacArthur flew in his own B17. When they
got over to where they were supposed to jump
and their machinery and everything had been
parachuted down first. Then they found out they
were only 500 feet up and MacArthur told them
to jump. There was a couple of dozen of the fellows that were kind of banged up after that.
Some of them had broken legs. That was about
the time I went into the field hospital for the first
time with malaria. I got to talk with all of them.
They were all very upset with MacArthur for
making them jump at that low altitude.
GORDON: They couldn’t have time to get their
parachute out.
CONRAD: No. Speaking of combat, though, we
were bombed a number of times and that is
scary. If you were on the beach which I was one
time, you just kept hoping they didn’t spot you
or anything.
GORDON: No protection.
CONRAD: There were machine gun bullets
flying around, too. Anyway, I didn’t get hit. I
was very lucky.
GORDON: Did you write very many letters
home?
CONRAD: Yah. I have some of them upstairs
but, of course, there’s a lot of it was censored,
too, because you couldn’t tell about any of the
war.
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 7
GORDON: Did you receive many letters or
packages? What kind of things did you like to
get in the packets?
CONRAD: Everybody would always ask when
anybody opened the packages, “Oh, you got
cookies? Maybe they’re good yet.” You know
and all that. It didn’t take too long. They flew in
a lot of that. Of course, then the Navy was moving around and the Navy brought in some of the
packages, too. When we got to New Guinea for
the first time, we ate with a Navy 52nd Bombardment Squadron I guess it was called. They
had all these PBYs which were real slow, 109
miles an hour plane. I got a ride one time when
they were testing out some of them that had got
shot up a bit. We flew on up to Rabaul. I could
look down and see this little town. Rabaul is in
New Britain and it’s north of New Guinea.
When I got back though the company commander says, “Don’t ever do that again. I’m going to put you on probation. I’m not going to
take your sergeant stripes from you. Just going
to put you on probation.” Anytime I had to go
anywhere for anything at all, I had to go to him
to get permission to do it.
GORDON: Did you ever have to help retrieve a
wounded buddy from a field of combat? Did you
ever have to capture any enemy prisoners?
CONRAD: Christmas is the only one that we
really celebrated. Usually some of us would get
packages by that time depending upon when
they were sent out. APO 29 was something else
because they could get all jammed up. Quite a
few had the same addresspostal number.
GORDON: Have you remained in contact with
any of your World War II companions?
CONRAD: There was one in Chicago the last I
knew, John Rex Fry, and I went in to see him
one time, he and his she was a New Zealander. He met her in Australia and did get to go to
the wedding before we went up to New Guinea.
I went in to see him. She was working for the
telephone company then. She was a telephone
operator but I can’t remember what Rex was
doing.
GORDON: You told us about your military
rank about being a sergeant. Is there anything
else about your military rank or decorations?
CONRAD: We got a bronze star medal. I guess
that would be the main thing. The usual things
for different places you served, trying to think of
the name.
GORDON: Campaign decorations?
CONRAD: Yah. We got some of those, too.
CONRAD: No, only the Japanese that gave up.
That was an interesting thing on that plateau
though. Any movement at all that we made, we
moved at night and we would have these lights
and everything. I sat on the front, one of the
front fenders and looked down and I could see
nothing down there but what you could see at
the bottom and then down the mountain. I
don’t recall ever helping take care of prisoners
although I saw some of that.
GORDON: You told us how you were ready for
music for Easter. Were you in a combat area?
Do you remember anything about traditional
holidays such as Thanksgiving or Christmas?
GORDON: Do you remember those campaigns?
CONRAD: Mostly it was a case of just being at
the right place at the right time. I remember gunfire and that. There was some of that in Manila
yet.
GORDON: You told us how you were sent
home on furlough and then you had enough
points to stay home so now you’re back in civilian life. How did you get along with the men
with whom you had the greatest contact when
you were in the army?
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 8
CONRAD: I got along fine. As soon as I got
home and out of the service, I wrote back to the
company and told them what the whole situation
is, how you get out and all that sort of thing. The
company commander then wrote and said, “This
is crazy. I wish I had known that you were going
to get out, I would have made you a Staff Sergeant.” So I was thinking maybe I should go
back.
GORDON: Is there anything that you would do
differently if you could do it over again.
CONRAD: I don’t think so. I’ll tell you about
the infantry was Company C of the 175th Infantry Division which landed at Normandy Beachhead, at Omaha Beachhead I guess it was. When
the war was over I ran into this one fellow who
said there was 21 of them out of the 189 that was
in the company that we’re alive including me he
says. He says, “I’m very lucky to be back.” He
got wounded. He went through the Normandy
landing and then the Battle of the Bulge, too, so
I was thinking how lucky can you get. And the
fellow that was our Staff Sergeant, in fact, I remember when he was corporal, ended up as the
company commander. You could see how things
changed going to Europe.
GORDON: Very much.
CONRAD: I was thinking I was very, very
lucky.
GORDON: Yes, you were.
CONRAD: The one thing I felt kind of bad
about at the time, the girlfriend that I had, we
were engaged and she broke the engagement. I
don’t know why and married this fellow who
was in the Merchant Marineshe was about to
have a baby. That didn’t make me feel good either but that’s the way it was. Then I thoughtI
was staying in Washington D. C. for a while. I
knew a fellow that was in the Navy. He was as-
signed to office duty or something you call
itheadquarters duty, I guess you call it. I visited with him a while and then I decided maybe I
should go to college. I didn’t have a chance to
go to college. I went to business college and
took accounting and that’s probably how I got
into Social Security Board. My sister and brother-in-law were expecting their first child in 45
in Columbus, Ohio, so I went to Ohio State.
While I was studying, I would have this little
girl who was Diane giving her her bottle and
everythingthey went outand studying at the
same time. Diane became a special person. She
lives in Fort Dodge, Iowa, now because she had
gone to high school there. My sister and brotherin-law lived all over. They lived inbesides
Columbusthey lived in Des Moines, Iowa,
Columbus, went down to Springdale, Arkansas.
She worked there. My sister did all the IBM
workcomputer workfor Tyson and then
they went to a couple places in Texas and then
they come back to Fort Dodge, Cedar Rapids
and then they went out to the Denver area,
Golden, Colorado.
GORDON: They did move around.
CONRAD: Yes, they did.
GORDON: How did you learn about VE Day or
VJ Day and what was your reaction? Do you
remember those instances?
CONRAD: I was in Baltimore on VJ Day and
we already knew that they dropped the atomic
bombs in a couple of places in Japan. They had a
rally down town and I was in on that rally. They
really hooped it up for a while. I had one drink.
My malaria started coming back and I had to go
over to Walter Reed Hospital in Washington to
get that taken care of.
GORDON: What was your opinion of our use
of the atomic bomb when it was used against the
Japanese in August of 45?
CONRAD: I think at that time it was mostly
just a celebration that the war was over. I didn’t
reallywell, some Japanese I hated mostly of
the way they treated the Filipinos. The Filipi-
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 9
nosI’ve never seen anybody so poor living
inthey just set up a board and got in behind it.
That board would be against a building or something and they got in behind it and wrapped a
blanket around them and things like that.
GORDON: They had terrible living conditions.
CONRAD: They did have. And some of the
things I saw during the Marcos deal, when they
were focusing on Marcos and everything, just
hadn’t improved that much.
GORDON: We would like to know when and
where you were officially discharged from the
service.
CONRAD: At Jefferson Barracks, Missouri, on
the south side of St. Louis.
GORDON: Do you have a disability rating or a
pension?
CONRAD: No, except the only thing that the
government did pay for one-halfI got from
malaria I had this stomach disease and that
caused cataracts. When I had the cataract operations in 1959, at the VA research hospital in
Chicago, the government paid half of it and my
insurance paid the other half.
GORDON: What’s your opinion of the care you
received in the VA Hospital?
CONRAD: I thought it was very good. I had a
chance to go to a chapel and talk things over and
pray talked to a lot of people who were wounded
and everything wasa lot of things were happening to them similar to what had happened to
me. One fellow had a plate in his head from going over a bomb that was buried.
GORDON: The mines?
CONRAD: The mines, yah, in Europe. I met a
lot of people and it was very good just to talk
over some of the things because it cleared my
mind of a lot of deals.
GORDON: So that was one good thing about
the VA Hospital. Do you have any contact with
the Veterans’ Administration now?
CONRAD: No except for when somebodyI’m the Commander of Daniel American
Legion Post #864 and we’ve had a few people
trying to seek help I recommended contact the
VA for that.
GORDON: Would you like to tell us about how
your family supported you during your military
life? Did their letters keep your spirits up?
CONRAD: My mother’s letters did. She was
the one that wrote most of the time. My father
just once in a great while because he was busy.
He went from farming and he started a radio
shopbattery radios in those days. Later on I
think he was ready to get into television because
television was really coming to here and he was
blown off a ladder putting up a second story
storm window for the winter. He was blown off
a ladder and broke ribs and ruptured spleen. That
was in 1957. It was on Thanksgiving Day. That
was a sad thing.
GORDON: Is there anything else you would
like to tell us.
CONRAD: Let’s see.
GORDON: Thank you, Dwight. This concludes
our interview with Dwight Conrad unless he
thinks of something more he would like to say.
Is there any highlight of your service that we
haven’t mentioned?
CONRAD: I can’t think of anything at the moment. I might remember later. I do remember
coming in behind the First Cavalry Division and
seeing some of that and seeing the mortars were
shooting the Japanese out of theThat’s when I
decided war is not for me. People were jumping
out of windows and everything else and they
were shooting up those beautiful buildings. Ma-
�Dwight W. Conrad Page 10
nila was a beautiful place before the war.
GORDON: I’ll bet it was. Would you like to go
back and see it?
see us at Santa Thomas?” and I says, “Well, I
saw some of you.” All I thought of at that time
was what a terrible shame and it turns out he
was one of them.
GORDON: He was a prisoner of war there?
CONRAD: I might some day although I don’t
know how soon. I talked tothere’s a woman
who married a former priest here in Rockford
and he wasI think he probably still works in
the library, I’m not sure now. She and I have
talked about some of the things in the Philippines. She didn’t come from Manila. She came
from somewhere elseLuzon, I believe. The
people that were at Santa Thomas, that was a
very sad situation because they didn’t half feed
them. What was surprising is that this one fellow
in Columbus that lived next door to my sister
and brother-in law were living, He says, “I remember you from somewhere. Were you in the
war?” I says, “Yah” And he said, “Were you in
the Philippines?” And I said, “Yes.” “Did you
CONRAD: Yah. He had got down to about 60
pounds and he had weighed about 150. He had
put on quite a bit of weight. I think he weighed
135 at that time, by the time I had met him
again.
GORDON: Pretty severe conditions.
CONRAD: I should say. That’s why everything
about war kind of turns me off any more
GORDON: This has been a very interesting
interview. This concludes our interview with
Dwight Conrad.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
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Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Phyllis Gordon
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Dwight W. Conrad
Location
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Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Dwight W. Conrad
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 1, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born May 7, 1919, Dwight W. Conrad served in the U.S. Army from 1941 to 1945. He died January 15, 1998.
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
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Text
EARL Hutchinson Page 1
EARL HUTCHINSON
Transcribed By Elaine Carlson
Edited by Margaret Lofgren
Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, IL 61107
Phone 397 9112
�EARL Hutchinson Page 2
Earl Hutchinson
Today is March 8, 1994. My name is Phyllis
Gordon. I am a volunteer with Midway Village
& Museum Center cooperating with a statewide
effort to collect oral histories from Illinois
citizens who participated in the momentous
events surrounding World War II. Today we are
in the North Suburban District Library and we
are interviewing Mr. Earl Hutchinson who
served in a branch of the United States Armed
Forces during World War II. We are
interviewing him about his experiences in that
war. Earl, would you please start by introducing
yourself to us. Please give us your full name, the
place and date of your birth. We’ll start with
that.
EARL: Okay. I was born in Winnebago County.
We lived on Ralston Road up here and I’ve been
a Rockford area resident all my life. My name is
Earl Hutchinson.
EARL: In 1941 I was a large radial drill
operator for Greenlee Bros. & Co. They
anticipated the war then and they were making
transfer-line machines that were able to produce
a lot of aircraft engines.
PHYLLIS: What thoughts did you have about
the war before the United States became directly
involved?
EARL: Well, my thoughts are on any war is that
the people fighting the war don’t want the war.
It’s the leaders of the different factions, or
different countries that want the war. They can’t
seem to agree with each other so they start a war
and they put all the men __?__ even since the
dawn of history.
PHYLLIS: Did you hear the December 7, 1941,
radio announcement about the bombing of Pearl
Harbor by the Japanese? If so, where were you
and what were you doing at that time?
PHYLLIS: Your birth date?
EARL: I was born December 4, 1921.
PHYLLIS: We’d also like to have the name of
each of your parents.
EARL: My dad’s name was Orson and my
mother’s name was Vinnie.
EARL: That is one I don’t have a good memory
on like most people do because we lived out
here in Loves Park in what was like country
then. I was doing something out in the yard. I
was working on my caror whatever I was
doing and one of my brothers come out and told
me that they had just bombed Pearl Harbor.
PHYLLIS: Did you have any brothers or
sisters?
PHYLLIS: What was you reaction and the
response of the others around you when you
heard that news?
EARL: There were seven kids altogether.
EARL: that I can’t remember.
PHYLLIS Are there any details about your
parents or your family that you’d like to give at
this time?
PHYLLIS: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
EARL: My dad was in World War I and several
of my brothers were in World War II alongnot
with me but at the same time.
PHYLLIS: What was life like for you before
the war and specifically if you can think back to
1941. What were you doing before the war?
EARL: Oh, yes. The first one I remember was
that I was coming back from Minnesota to
Rockford. I was hitch hiking all the way and on
the radio of the cars that I rode in it was telling
that Hitler had invaded Poland which I didn’t
think was the right thing to do. I thought Hitler
should have stayed in Germany.
�EARL Hutchinson Page 3
PHYLLIS: Did you have any knowledge of
Hitler’s speeches or ideas?
EARL: No. I never read or studied up on that. I
heard what was in the newspapers or heard what
was on the radio and that was as far as I got.
PHYLLIS: What events led you into military
service? Were you drafted or did you volunteer?
EARL: No, I was drafted a year later. They
didn’t want me at first because I was working at
a production facility that helped the war effort.
But a year later they decided that I was a young
fellow and they could use me after all.
PHYLLIS: When and where were you
inducted?
EARL: I wasI guess I was sworn in
Rockford, but I was then inducted in Fort
Sheridan just north of Chicago.
PHYLLIS: How old were you? Do you have
any special memories of being inducted?
EARL: Well, I got one that is a different one. I
went in for my physical into Chicago and it took
all day. They took us in by the train load and I
got side tracked during the examination and I
didn't get my lunch like everybody else. Finally,
when I complained about it, they said, “We’ll
give you some lunch.” They took me to a room
and they had hot dogs and sauerkraut and I
thought, “Oh, what a meal” because I had never
had sauerkraut in my life because my mother
hated it. I started to eat and the more I ate the
more I liked it. I’ve eaten sauerkraut ever since.
EARL: That was in Camp Hood, Texas.
PHYLLIS: What were you trained to do? And
what did you think of the training?
EARL: They called the Camp Hood, Texas, a
“tank destroyer unit” but that just happened to
be their specialty down there but that jus like
being in another branch of the infantry.
PHYLLIS: And so what were you specifically
trained to do?
EARL: We didn’t get any specific training
there. It was just basic training there.
PHYLLIS: all right. Did anything special
happen there?
EARL: Well, I know that one of the fellows in
our barracks got spinal meningitis and we were
quarantined for several weeks. So I got into
town once the whole time I was there for
thirteen weeks.
PHYLLIS: Tell us about any other training
camps that you attended.
EARL: Well, from there we went over into
Pennsylvania. I forget the name of the camp for
a minute, but I got on KP (kitchen police) duty
there and there were several of us there who had
to actually peel and cut up fifty pounds of
onions.
PHYLLIS: I’ll bet you were crying before that
job was over.
PHYLLIS: That’s an interesting story.
EARL: After that physical then they gave us
seven day leave to go home and get our papers
all straightened out. And that was right at
Christmas time. And I went in between
Christmas and New Year’s to Fort Sheridan and
we didn’t do much there for a few days because
of the Holidays, but then things started to move
after that and I went from there to basic training.
PHYLLIS: Where did you take you basic
training?
EARL: Well, we had a good bunch of fellows
so we made a bunch of jokes about it. We had
quite a time.
PHYLLIS: Did you have any leaves or passes
during this and if so, how did you use them?
EARL: I had one evening pass while I was in
Texas for the thirteen weeks and I had one
evening pass in Pennsylvania for the few days
that I was there. Other than that, the next thing I
�EARL Hutchinson Page 4
knew we were on board ship heading overseas
on the Atlantic.
did not immediately enter a combat zone where
did you go before entering combat?
PHYLLIS: What was your military unit?
EARL: Well, I landed at North Africa. We took
a little bit of training. Before the training was
completely over andwell we were all called
out one morning into a big field. There were
hundreds of us there and our physical that day
amounted to the doctor or officer coming along
saying, “Well, good morning, soldier. How are
you today?” And if you said fine, that was your
physical. In my case, I said, “I’ve got a bad side
ache that’s really bothering me,” so what’s he
sayyou’re out in this big open field with
nobody aroundWell, drop your pants,
soldier.” And he checked and I had a hernia and
he said, “Well, you can’t make this trip. You go
back to the tent and report to first Aid and
they’ll send you to the hospital tomorrow.” And
the odd part of that was, I didn’t know until after
the war was completely over. A couple years
later and I was on my way back home and I got
my hands of all of my records. We all did that
and I was going along reading them and I
happened to notice one page in there and there
was a big rubber stamp across it “void”. So I
read the page and I found out that the time I was
in North Africa I was actually assigned to the
First Division, which was in Sicily at the time
and because I went to the hospital it was marked
“void”. I didn’t go to the First Division. I went
to the hospital and stayed in Africa all summer.
Where other fellow went to Sicily and some of
them never returned?
EARL: I was in the 36th Division which was
known as the Texas Division.
PHYLLIS: And what were your assigned
duties:
EARL: Well, I started out as a line rifleman, but
just before we got back into battle, I was sent up
to Headquarters Company to be a Jeep driver
and then I did all types of Jeep driving.
PHYLLIS: So then you were sent overseas.
How did you get there?
EARL: Well, we’re going to have to back track
a little bit then. After I left Pennsylvania, we
went to Norfolk, Virginia, where we all boarded
ships and we headed for North Africa. We had a
nice interesting stopping point on the way. We
stopped at Bermuda and we all had a chance to
visit the town there.
PHYLLIS: Pretty nice.
EARL: Some of them went to a couple of towns
before the ships actuallywell that was an
assembly for the whole convoy from the United
States. They all met there and took off in a
convoy. When we left Bermuda we headed for
North Africa and we had forty ships in the
convoy. And from there we went through the
Strait of Gibraltar and we could see land on both
sides. The first land we had seen in thirty days
and we landed at Oran which is in North Africa.
PHYLLIS: What did you think of our nation’s
war efforts at this point?
EARL: I thought everybody was doing a great
job. People that didn’t even know what a
machine was were going in and operating
machines.
PHYLLIS: I don’t think we had ever had that
kind of spirit before and determination. If you
PHYLLIS: What happened then after you time
in the hospital?
EARL: Well, then I went backI had a little
interesting experienceI went back to the
company and by that time I was a veteran in
North Africa so we were assigned to these tents.
There happened to be a group of what they
called non-coms. They were higher sergeants
who had volunteered to go overseas. They didn’t
give them the same duty as the privates so they
gave them some job to do and the sergeant who
was in charge of our company said, “As long as
you are a veteran why don’t you go with the
sergeants today?” So I went out with the
�EARL Hutchinson Page 5
sergeants and when I did they had to go out and
put some tents up and things like this. Fairly
easy work instead of marching around and all
the sergeants looked at me and said, “Well,
you’re the only odd ball.” I’m not to pick up
anything. “You can’t do that. You’re the leader.”
(Laughter)
PHYLLIS: What happened next? When did you
enter combat? Or were you in combat?
EARL: Let’s take another one on North Africa.
That was in September. I was being scheduled to
be shipped over to Italy and they had just made
the Italy invasion just a week before that. Or
they were just making the Italy invasion because
when I landed in Italy it was D-Day plus 8. We
went all the way across North Africa. That was
kind of an interesting experience.
people crawled underneath these tents, probably
made of goat or [game] skins or something and
that was their way of life. They were Nomads.
PHYLLIS: That was interesting.
EARL: That was a little interesting point. We
finally got to the shipping point where we were
going to ship off to Italy from North Africa. We
were at the dock there and I asked some of the
sailors there about a ship by a certain number,
which I can’t remember, but I went over the
Atlantic on it. “Oh yeah, that ships right here.
Why don’t you go over and see the fellows?” so
the ships were docked side by side so instead of
going down and going across the dock, I just
started crawling over from one ship to the next
until I got there.
PHYLLIS: I would think you would fall in.
PHYLLIS: I can imagine?
EARL: We got on this train. Some of you may
recall, they were called 40 and 8 trains from
World War I.
PHYLLIS: Yes.
EARL: They didn’t have any beds in there.
They had two seats facing each other, so you
could sit just like on a streetcar facing each
other. So then for night time, some of the
fellows laid under the seats, some laid on the
seats and some of the fellows took their blankets
and tied them up to the coat racks and used them
as hammocks. And in the middle of one night
one fellow had to get up and wouldn’t you know
his hammock broke loose and he came tumbling
down.
PHYLLIS: doesn’t sound to cozy. That’s
American ingenuity.
EARL: something that was a little
differentthat
is
we
thing
of
as
differenttravelling out through the edge of the
desert we could look out across the desert and
here was a tribe out there and it’s just like in the
Bible days. These tents were put up on poles and
I suppose just taking a guess, that they were four
or five foot off the ground and that’s where the
EARL: Oh, they were close enough together, we
could touch. When I got there I found that the
ship I had come over on had actually helped in
the Italian invasion and the captain was directing
things from the unloading ramp and a shot or
something went off and he was killed with
shrapnel. Several of the sailors I had met on the
way overwe got to exchange notes on what
they had done and so on. The boat that we went
over on, by the way, was the smallest troop
carrying ship that they used in World War II for
troops. They had smaller ships but this was the
smallest one that carried troops and that was
called and LST. An LST isI forgot the initials
right at the minutebut that was a flat bottomed
ship and the bow of the ship opened up like
doors and the ramp would come down flat and
they could pull up right on the beach and the
tanks could drive out of the hold of the ship and
drive right up on the beach. And the reason it
was quite a ride over the Atlantic was, being a
flat bottomed ship without a keel, it would rock
back and forth and it was so easy to get seasick.
PHYLLIS: Were you seasick?
EARL: I was seasick a good way over, but I
finally got used to it. But going over, I had
another little experience. All the soldiers and
�EARL Hutchinson Page 6
sailors had to pullwe had rotary guard
stations. They were called battle stations, but
you pulled guard for four hours and my tour
happened to be from twelve midnight to four in
the morning and while I was on guardI was
way up on what they call the bridgethat’s the
high point of the shipand I looked over the
side and here was another little ship going
beside us which I thought was what we called
one of our sub chasers. You have to keep in
mind we didn’t have lights with the war on there
and it was dark out that night. I just see this
small ship going by. I didn’t think much of it.
Four o’clock I went down and got in my bunk. I
had no more got in my bunk and the sound came
on the lour horns and everything. “Go to you
battle stations.” I just got in my bunk, so I went
up there as it turned out then we had to post
guard then there until a certain length of time
went by. And it turned out the ship that went by
there going through the middle of our convoy
got way up to the headit was a German sub.
PHYLLIS: Oh, no. Oh, EARL. That was quite
an experience.
EARL: We laugh abut it now, but
PHYLLIS: It was a pretty dangerous thing.
EARL: When the convoy was going over, you
could see pretty much all forty ships. Oh, they
were 2, 3, 4 miles apart from one end to the
other probably. The next morning when daylight
finally came after we were relieved from our
guard duty and we discovered that somebody
had told the convoy to change direction. Instead
of going east, we started going straight north and
in doing that the ships spread so far apart, it was
all you could do to see the nearest ship which
was 15 miles away. The reason being if he
started shooting he’s not gong to get very many
ships. He’s only going to get one or two instead
of a lot of them.
PHYLLIS: So it was a wise move. Back to
Africa. Were you then sent to Italy?
EARL: From there I went to Italy. I can’t
remember what kind of a ship. They just loaded
us up there, just like you’d take a ferry across
Lake Michigan. They just loaded us all upit
might have been over a day. We landed down on
the beaches when they where they had actually
made the invasion.
PHYLLIS: Where was that?
EARL: That was, I think it was the town of
Paestum which is just a little bit of a village.
Everybody is going to remember it as Salerno.
That’s where the invasion was made. We were
just south of Salerno at the town of Paestum and
we didn’t have any real leadership. They just
hadwe were what they called “replacements.”
We weren’t organized and they even had
officers as replacements so as long as they were
officers, they put them in charge and they led us
up to a pasture where we staid over night. Had
another little interesting experience there. We
were told we could go up to the creek and wash.
The officer told us to be sure to wash ourselves,
take your bath downstream because you are
going to get your drinking water from upstream.
While we were there getting washed, there was
this guy taking a bath upstream and I climbed all
over him, said “You didn’t follow instructions
very well.” He said, “You’re not going to be
allowed to drink this water anyhow. There’s
dead cows in the creek up stream here a ways.
You better just leave the water alone.” And
afterward we visited a little bit and hew was
getting his clothes on and it turns out here I was
chewing out an officer. I was just scared stiff.
Without his clothes on you couldn’t tell what his
rank was.
PHYLLIS: But weren’t disciplined for that?
EARL: Not for that.
PHYLLIS: Well, then did you immediately
enter combat?
EARL: Well, let’s see. I’ll have to scratch my
memory. No, we went from there up to a little
town just north of Naples. Here again, I forget
the name of the town. A few years ago I could
remember all these names and we stayed there.
Had a few interesting experiences there. There
was a small mountain between our little town
�EARL Hutchinson Page 7
and Naples and we lived in the middle of an
orchard and that ground was so rich and firm
from being an orchard all those centuries, I
suppose, that we could dig fox holes with no
trouble whatsoever. You just dug down like
digging into black dirt and the first night there
we had an air raid over Naples. The Germans
came down and we all jumped into our foxholes.
We didn’t feel real secure about that because we
didn’t have them very deep. The next day then
everybody was digging fox- holes six feet deep
so that we could get down in them for
protection. We’d be down in the fox holes and
we’d be cheering our anti-aircraft fire from
Naples, shooting at the planes, trying to get them
knocked down. Of course, nobody got hit
because the planes were too high and the guns
didn’t go that high. But there weren’t any
casualties or anything from that. The planes
must have just been going over to spot what we
had. We stayed there for probably week or so. It
seemed like a long time, but a week is a long
time when you are over there.
know, but he came back and I was kind of
shivering. He had a coat; somebody threw a coat
over me. And that was my first night in combat.
Now, in combatit wasn’t actually like you
think of shooting guns at each other. I was back
in what we might call the rear part of the front
and they could have thrown artillery shells in
there, but none came in at that particular spot.
They were a couple miles down the road where
they were coming again.
PHYLLIS: In a foxhole.
EARL: I wrote a lot of letters home. I like to
write and I still do let’s back track to Africa
for just a few minutes.
EARL: We didn’t live in the foxholes all the
time. Come to think of it, I even got a tour to go
into Naples and I got a chance to tour Naples a
little bit. I saw the palace of Naples and we got
to buy a few things and could eat whatever we
could scrounge up in town instead of eating
regular rations we had at camp.
PHYLLIS: Did you proceed into actual combat
after this?
EARL: No. From there we moved up further
yet. Maybe we did go into combat, but being a
jeep driver the captain picked me then to lead
the convoy of our companynot our division,
but our companygoing up. He knew where we
were going. We went up the highway. It was
scary. It was the first time I had ever driven in
black out. In black out you drive with no lights
whatsoever. You just have to go by what ever
you can see and follow the jeep ahead of you.
Well, I was the lead jeep up there then. It was a
kind of a rainy night. We pulled up and he said,
“Go ahead and rest up for awhileyou’re tired
out from your drive. Where he went, I don’t
PHYLLIS: Did you mental attitude change as
being near combat continued?
EARL: Well, it sure got scary. Especially, well
they had a commentthat’s the wrong word for
itbut they would mention if you lived the first
few days in combat you’re pretty good at going
all the way through. Those that got killed usually
got killed when they’re brand new in combat.
PHYLLIS: I hadn’t heard that. Did you write
many letters home?
PHYLLIS: Sure.
EARL: I had that operation and then I went to
what they called a convalescent hospital, which
was just a group of tents and along the
Mediterranean. I had a couple of experiences
there. One was that after that operation you’re
not allowed to do anything except walk around.
You can’t do any work. I got bored. I sat down
one day and I decided to write a letter home. I
wrote a nine page letter, keeping in mind that it
had to be censored and I the whole letter was
just on what we do from the time we got up to
what we do when we go to bed at night.
PHYLLIS: I hope someone kept that.
EARL: I’m curious as if I’ve still got it home in
my garage. I’m going to have to look it up this
summer to see if I can find that.
�EARL Hutchinson Page 8
PHYLLIS: That would be a good letter to
include with this interview. Did you receive
many letters or packages? And what kinds of
things did you like to get if you got any packets?
EARL: Well, that’s another story. When I was
in Texas, my mother sent me a package of
donuts. They went to Texas. I had already left
for Pennsylvania. She didn’t know that, of
course. They didn’t catch up with me in
Pennsylvania because we were only there a
couple days and we took off for Africa. Then we
went over to Africa and the package still
followed me.
PHYLLIS: What was that?
EARL: You know they’re jelly candies that are
sugar covered and they come four to a package?
PHYLLIS: I don’t know.
EARL: You can still buy them today.
PHYLLIS: Wow.
EARL: They were different fruit flavors. I am
not in love with them but I still like them today.
PHYLLIS: What were the donuts like by that
time? (Laughter).
PHYLLIS: That’s interesting. Did most of the
other men write and receive letters?
EARL: They were home made donuts and they
were greasy and stale so we had to throw them
out.
EARL: That was the big issue with soldiers
overseas. They all wanted letters. Some of them
weren’t great at writing, but they really wanted
to receive letters.
PHYLLIS: Oh, dear. Did you receive many
letters?
EARL: I got quite a few letters. Another little
experience I had then because of going to
hospital and moving around like this, was, my
records couldn’t keep up with me very well. I
was going all this time without getting any pay
check. They didn’t have pay checks. You got
paid in actual money but I didn’t get any pay all
that summer and I wanted to buy candy like the
other guys were buying and I couldn’t do it and
then I discovered you get a certificate or ticket
whatever you want to call it where you could
buy so much candy, so much cigarettes, so much
toothpaste and all this and so I would trade all
my cigarettes coupons with somebody else.
(Laughter).
PHYLLIS: Give you the candy.
EARL: Then I was able to get the candy.
PHYLLIS: What kind of candy? Do you
remember? What was popular or what was
available?
EARL: They didn’t have chocolate candy,
naturally. But they had one that I still like today.
PHYLLIS: did you forge any close bonds of
friendship with some of you companions?
EARL: Well, back to Africa again. I went to the
hospital and at that timeit’s not like
todaybut back at that time when you had a
hernia operation you had to stay in bed for ten
days. You couldn’t get out. And there was a
fellow laying right next to mehe was from the
swamps of Louisiana. We got to be pretty good
friends. We compared a lot of notes. He was the
intellectual type, not the crude type and he said
he was writing articles for the newspaper back
home. He sent an article home every week
telling about some of the things that happened.
Articles that would clear the censor that are. He
couldn’t tell where he was at in this town or we
were here or how many fellows we had or
anything like that. He could just tell generalities
after we left. He was from a whole different
outfit then I was. No connection because I was a
replacement and I don’t know what he was, but
we some how kept in touch with each other. We
corresponded all through the war and after the
war. So then after the war, I went down to
Louisiana, New Orleans, and I thought I would
do down to see him, another 85 miles down to
this town where he was from and it’s way down
�EARL Hutchinson Page 9
in a swamp. I mean way down. I got down in
there and I had written him a letter telling him I
was coming, so I went to the bank to get
directions and they said he was there, but he’s in
a meeting right nowmeeting with the
insurance people out of New York. While you’re
here, we’ll tell him you’re here. So he came out
and he was glad to see me and said, “I didn’t
know you were coming.” And I said, “I wrote
you a letter.” “Oh my cousin probably got it and
he’s on vacation.” His cousin’s got the same
name. So he says, “You wait a little bit.” So he
went back to the meeting and cancelled his part.
He gave us a tour then. It turned out he’s the
banker. He owned the bank building, he owned
and auto agency, he owned two oil wells.
PHYLLIS: Wow.
EARL: And by some coincidence, that was the
night that the Rotary Club was having ladies
night so he said, “You’re going to be our guests
tonight.”
PHYLLIS: You came at the right time. That
was interesting.
EARL: The name of the town he was from was
called Golden Meadow. It’s a fair sized little
town but down in the swamps there, you have a
town and if you go two or three blocks off the
main road, that’s it. If you go any further, you’re
into the swamp. There all narrow towns right
along the highway.
PHYLLIS: Back to Italy. Were you aware there
were civilian concentration camps? Were you
aware of their existence?
EARL: I don’t know if I ever thought about that
in Italy. I can’t remember.
(End of side l of tape).
EARL: And I could pick a half a dozen things
because to me war isn’t all fighting. You aren’t
always shooting at somebody or coming out of a
foxhole or going out of a trench. These will just
be at random. I was up near Mount Casino and
we never did really take Mount Casino, but our
planes were bombing it and I was up near the
front then and I went over to the edge of the
cliff. I could sit right on the cliff, just a balcony
and I could sit and watch the planes all coming
over. You could see them without binoculars.
They were coming over dropping bombs on
Mount Casino. So I had a front row seat for that.
Right in that very same area there, we had a
shortage of tires. For some one reason or another
they’d be damaged and we couldn’t get them
fast enough. They were making them in Naples
but they were still short. My jeep was up to the
front. They took all the wheels off my jeep and
just let it set there at the front, so I had to stay
there with the jeep while they took my tires back
for somebody else and a couple days later they
came up with tires and put them back on my
jeep and I was able to get out of there.
PHYLLIS. It’s hard to imagine what you had to
do.
EARL: That was near a town called San Pietro
which was another valley. We lost a lot of men
there and there was another one right up in that
area which was interesting. This was at
Christmas time. In 1943 would that bed, I had
met a fellow from Rockford there. He was in H
Company and I was in Headquarters Company
and we would visit once in a while. Had a
couple little experiences there. OneI was
trying to write a letter home one night. I was
using a candle inside the tent to write by. Just a
hundred yards back away from the front, behind
our tent was our big guns shooting over the
mountains into the German lines. And every
time that gun would go off, the muzzle blast
would cause a rush of air and blow my candle
out.
PHYLLIS: So that was a difficult letter to write.
EARL: So then right at the top of the mountain
from where I was which wasn’t very far, we
were near the top, it was foggy up there one day
and it was soldiersI suppose soldiers from
both sides. I know some American soldiers that
were injured up there. Our medics wanted to get
them so the medics went up with a Red Cross
flag thinking that would protect them so they
could bring our wounded soldiers off the top of
the hill. But both sides sawthe American
�EARL Hutchinson Page 10
Infantry and the German infantry both saw the
flap go up there and being foggy, they thought it
was a surrender flag from the other side. So the
two sides went up there and started
arguing”You’re going to be prisonersno
you’re going to be prisoners.” They couldn’t
decide who was going to be prisoners so they all
went back to their own sides and started fighting
again.
PHYLLIS: Unbelievable. (Laughter). That is an
occurrence to remember.
EARL: I wasn’t in on that. I just heard about it.
PHYLLIS: Can you tell us what you and the
other men did to celebrate some of our
traditional family holidays such as Thanksgiving
and Christmas?
EARL: That was at Christmas in 43. We were
up at the front. We didn’t do much then. We
always had a special treat and a special meal for
that day. What we had, I don’t remember. But
they made it a point some how to get the good
food over for that one day. Speaking of food,
there was another one down there in that same
general area. I had a lot of experiences in that
general area. I was a driver now for the kitchen
and we took hot food right up near the front with
this trailer and we had large thermos containers
that would keep the food hot and the fellows
right up in front would get hot pancakes. To get
there, we didn’t use the highways. The
Americans, with all of their big powerful
bulldozers, went in where there use to be a
railroad. The railroad was ripped up by the
Germans, but we were able to make a highway
out of it just by leveling it off, but when you
came to the valleys, the bridges were knocked
out so our big bulldozers had steep slopesyou
go down one side , up the hill on the other side
and you were back on level ground again.
PHYLLIS: Did you have to do that with your
jeep or truck?
EARL: I had to do that with my jeep and the
trailer with the food behind it. What I am
leading up to is we had to go through three of
these. After I got by the third one, it was a little
dark and foggy in the morning and we saw
fellows standing along side but we kept going
looking for the next dip. We were supposed
toI didn’t know where I was going
exactlythe sergeant knew. All of a sudden I
slammed on the brakes because I was going to
step on the gas and zip down the next dip and
come to find out there wasn’t any dip there that
was where the bridge was knocked out. And we
stopped with the front of the jeep just almost
hanging over the edge where the bridge should
be. So he told me to back it up. I said, “I’m not
taking my foot off that brake. You get out and
push this jeep back.” So the sergeant got out
and he pushed and I put it in gear then, backed
up and we got turned around and we got up to
where we were supposed to where these fellows
were standing along side. They should have
stopped us. So w drove off there and went down
through the farm-yard and down around the
trees. I didn’t know it at the time, but down
toward the Rapido River, we went down around
the trees and pulled up in another little farmyard down there. I sort of wondered at the time
the sergeant and I were serving the food, I don’t
know if anyone else was helping us or not, but
all the front line soldiers came up one at a time
to get their food. They didn’t come up in a line
as hungry as they were. Only one came up and
when he left another one came up. When I got
back to the kitchen again, back in the rear again,
I found out why. As it turned out, when I was
going around that end of the trees, the sergeant
and I and the jeep and the trailer, we were just a
hundred yards from where the Germans were.
They had been watching us at the Rapido River
where we lost hundreds and hundreds of
soldiers.
PHYLLIS: Well, that’s an experience. When
and how did you return to the States after the
war? Or when did you come back to the United
States?
EARL: Okay. By being over there as long as I
was, by making this southern France invasion,
we got so many battle stars and all this sort of
thing, so many ribbons, whatever, we got points
for each one and I ended up in Germany and I
staid there all summer. In September I headed
for home. I had to leave my girlfriend behind. It
�EARL Hutchinson Page 11
was a girl I went with for five weeks. She
wanted me to stay there but I said if I wanted her
I would come back and get her. I never did.
Then coming home in September, we went over
near Rheims which you staid in these certain
camps until you got new assignments. Then we
went down to Marseilles and from Marseilles we
sailed out through the Rock of Gibraltar and
back home again.
PHYLLIS So you covered a lot of territory.
there and I went up in Anzio which was quite a
place to have an experience with and then I was
in southern France that’s another one, and the
European theater that was another award you
might say.
PHYLLIS: How did you get along with the men
with whom you had the greatest contact?
EARL: Well, I got along good enough. I am still
writing to several of them.
EARL: I always say I covered Africa, Italy,
France, Germany and Austria.
PHYLLIS: That’s good. Were there things
you’d do differently if you could do them once
again?
PHYLLIS: Could you tell us about your
military rank or your decorations or your
campaign decorations?
EARL: That’s the game of life. Hindsight is
always better than foresight.
EARL: Well, I got the Good Conduct ribbon; I
got the Southern France Invasion ribbon; I got
theI forget the name of it right nowbut the
European Theater ribbon and I got so many
stripes for the amount of time I was over there.
They called those gold stripes or gold bars on
your sleeve and I got some shooting award
whatever that was. Anybody who could shoot
half way good at all got an award of some kind.
PHYLLIS: How many campaigns were you in?
EARL: Well, I missed the African campaign.
That ended a few days before I got there. I
missed the Italian invasion because I hadn’t been
assigned to a unit yet, but I was there right
afterward. I didn’t get credit for the invasion but
I go credit for being there in that theater. I was
there and I went up in Anzio which was quite a
place to have an experience with and then I was
in Southern France that’s another one, and the
European theater that was another award you
might say.
PHYLLIS: How many campaigns were you in?
EARL: Well, I missed the African campaign
that ended a few days before I got there. I
missed the Italian invasion because I hadn’t been
assigned to a unit yet, but I was there right
afterward. I didn’t get credit for the invasion but
I got credit for being there in that theater. I was
PHYLLIS: What was the most difficult thing
you had to do during you period of military
service?
EARL: Let’s back track there for that hindsight.
I’ve often wondered what would have happened
when I was in Chicago at Fort Sheridanin
high school I was not a good typist. I took
typing for two years. I could type fifty words a
minute but I wasn’t a good typist. I wasn’t going
to tell them I knew how to type. I found out later
that they had so many people from the other end
of the scale that couldn’t do anything like that. If
I’d told them I could type, I would probably
have stayed right in Chicago for the whole tour
of duty.
PHYLLIS: For heaven’s sake. That’s
interesting. What was the most difficult thing
you had to do during your period of military
service?
EARL: Well, it’s all how you want to interpret
“difficult” so I’ll interpret it one way. One
experience, being a jeep driver, I kept track of
my miles on something or other, so I knew that I
drove about 25,000 miles in Europe. Out of the
25,000 miles, I estimated from the experience I
had that I drove 5,000 miles in what they call
“blackout” driving. That is driving with no
headlights whatsoever. No lightsyou couldn’t
see where you were going. Now in Italy that’s
�EARL Hutchinson Page 12
not too difficult because a lot of the country
roads in Italy have rows of trees down both sides
of the road of the road so all you got to do is be
like a tunnel at night time and stay between
those trees. Then you have to watch out for is a
jeep coming at you with have a head-on
collision or you might catch up with one that’s
going away from you. So you had to keep
watching closely for those jeeps. I had a few
accidents but nothing real serious.
PHYLLIS: So probably that difficult driving
would be one of your most successful
achievements. Are there any others? Things you
look back on as an achievement in this service?
EARL: Well, I could look back and think of all
kinds of things. I was offered to be a sergeant
after the war was over. I was so close to going
home, I turned it down. Telling me I would be
head of a message center. I can think of another
one for combat. I had one over in France that
was somewhat different. There was a little town
that had maybe a population of 100 to 200
people in it, but at that time we didn’t see
anybody. We had our telephone lines going right
through the town. At that time, I was the driver
for the telephone wireI forget the name of it
for the minutefor laying telephone wires and
we got word then that our telephone might have
been knocked out in the middle of town some
place. I took three fellows with me who were
wire men and I was just the driver. Got to the
edge of town and we checked our line and sure
enough there was a break, so we fixed it. Boy,
we got it made. We tried to check going forward
to reach the forward battalion and we couldn’t
reach them. We just reached the rear. So we
drove on through town, to the other aside and
picked up another wire which they usually send
the fellows out that laid the wires because you
remember where you put them. So we picked up
the wire now we got forward to the battalion but
we couldn’t get to the rear. So now we knew
there was another break some place, so we went
into the middle of town. This town only had two
roads in it, like a cross. We got in the middle of
the town and sure enough there was some wires
broken there. We thought maybe some of the
trucks or tanks knocked out the wires, so I went
up the pole on one side to fasten the wire up and
run it across the top of the road instead of on the
road. I got down from the pole and went over to
a garage where the sergeant was going to check
the lines to see if we could reach front and rear.
We heard this shell coming in so we all grabbed
the phone and ran inside the building, of garage
or barn of something right there. He set the
telephone down between his legs, just to have a
place to put it and it was still attached to the
wires. We all waited until the shell hit out on the
cornet and stones and shrapnel were flying every
which way. So then after it got all quiet he
reached down to pick up the telephone and
found a hunk of shrapnel had come right
between his legs and smashed the telephone.
PHYLLIS: That was a close call, Unbelievable.
EARL: So this is how your get your experiences
over there. You don’t actually sit there and shoot
at each other. You’ve got a lot of this artillery,
bombs coming in and all these shells coming in
and that’s what does the damage.
PHYLLIS: How did you learn about VE Day
and what was your reaction to it?
EARL: Got to stop and think. Where was I on
VE Day? That was overI had been doing a lot.
We were really moving back then. This was
down in Bavaria. I got to see a beautiful part of
Germany. People pay good money to go there
today. I had some interesting experiences there,
too.
PHYLLIS: Do you want to tell us about those?
EARL: Well, there were two or three that were
kind of interesting. You’ve all heard of the book
Mein Kampf. Hitler wrote that when he was in
prison. Well, the prison is in Landsberg and I
lived across the street from that prison for seven
days. The strange thing about it was that every
morning and only in the morning, every morning
I went out and my jeep had a flat tire on it. One
time it was a horse-shoe nail, next time it was a
bullet clip, next time it was something else and I
got so I could change tires in a hurry.
PHYLLIS: Did you ever find out what was
happening?
�EARL Hutchinson Page 13
EARL: Well, we left town and that was the end
of it. No more trouble., Then we went from there
to a place called Tegernsee which is Teg-ern-see
in English and Tegernsee is like the Hollywood
of United States and all these wealthy homes
down in there. In fact, one home where Himmler
had his home, we set up our kitchen there.
EARL: No, I have nothing like that. I was one
of the fortunate ones. I came back the same way
I went over. In fact, I might be little better off.
PHYLLIS: Was it pretty nice?
EARL: I would still like to see a lot of these
differences settled by arbitration and not by
shooting at each other but if we listen to the
Bible, the Bible says there will be wars and
rumors of wars, so I have mixed emotions on the
part of it.
EARL: Oh, that was a bigjust like you see in
picturesbig chalet, big balcony on the front. It
was situated across the road from the lake so you
could look out over the lake. It was a pretty
place in there.
PHYLLIS: How did you learn about VJ Day?
Do you remember that?
PHYLLIS: Do you have any opinions or
feelings about our nation’s military status or its
policies?
PHYLLIS: Do you have any contact with the
Veterans’ Administration?
EARL: None whatsoever.
EARL: I suppose it might have come up over
the radio because I was in Germany at the time.
Or it might haveI know we got it by the Stars
and Stripes, which was the weekly newspaper
that we always got. But I am sure the radio
picked it up from some place.
PHYLLIS: What was your opinion of the use of
the atomic bomb when it was used against the
Japanese in August of 1945?
EARL: Well, I still have mixed emotions on
that. It was nice that it ended the war but I hated
to see all those civilians that were slaughtered.
PHYLLIS: When and where were you officially
discharged from the service?
EARL: I was discharged from the same place I
went in, Fort Sheridan. We spent just two or
three days there and then we were given all our
belongings, whatever we had. And we had a
final physical.
PHYLLIS: What year was that? Do you
remember?
EARL: That was in November, 1945.
PHYLLIS: Do you have a disability rating or a
pension?
PHYLLIS: What is your opinion of the
Veteran’s Administration?
EARL: I think it’s good for what they are doing
but I haven’t had any real use for it.
PHYLLIS: Have you ever gone to a VA
Hospital for medical services?
EARL: No, I haven’t.
PHYLLIS: Would you like to tell us how you
family supported you during your military life
with letters and encouragement.
EARL: Well, I don’t know how my mother did
it but she managed to write to us. There was
three of us boys that was in the service. One was
in the navy over in the Pacific, the other brother
was over in Brittany He went over to the
Netherlands, I guess it was. He was one of the
ground crews of the Air Force. She managed to
keep writing us letters. Somehow she managed
to get film, which was real hard to get and she
did send us film and it came all the way through.
I had to laugh one time getting the mail. It was
in Africa, too. I was helping to sort the mail out
one time. They had big sacks of mail just like
you’re familiar with sacks of mail here. And as
one fellow threw the bag off the truck, “clank”
�EARL Hutchinson Page 14
the thing went on the pavement and it turned out
somebody from over here in the States had sent
a bottle of shampoo over there but the shampoo
happened to have whiskey in it instead of
shampoo. That was a way of sending whiskey.
But the fellow didn’t get his whiskey.
PHYLLIS: Did it break?
EARL: It broke.
PHYLLIS: That was before we had plastic
bottles isn’t it?
PHYLLIS: Did that help the morale?
EARL: Oh, I think that was a big help. Because
it gave the fellow a little closer touch to home
and after he got to see, what you might say,
civilian women instead of women that were in
uniform of some kind, such as the Salvation
Army, or the Red Cross I meant to say. The Red
Cross girls were in their uniform as such and we
had nurses and that.
PHYLLIS: What did you do after you were
discharged at Fort Sheridan?
EARL: Oh, yes.
PHYLLIS: Is there anything else you would
like to recall before we end the interview?
EARL: I should have brought some thoughts
with me. I’m should have had them written
down. But we did have a certain amount of
religion over there. We went to church in
Germany in a beautiful house over there. It was
three stories high and that’s where I met my
German girlfriend.
PHYLLIS: Was there a chaplain for these
churches?
EARL: Well every outfit always had a chaplain
and I remember even down in Italy. Not at the
front, but back off the front and Sunday came
and the Chaplain would have Sunday services.
Anybody was welcome to come. It was nondenominational.
EARL: I didn’t go straight home as I had a great
aunt in Chicago and she said, “You’ve got to
stop here before you go home or you’ll never get
back here again.” At that time Chicago was a
long ways from Rockford. So I said, “Okay, I’ll
stay overnight and go home the next day then.”
And that was an interesting experience. I left c
amp. Why they didn’t let us go in the daytime, I
don’t know. By the time I got to the middle of
Chicago it was dark and I went to what was then
the old Union Station and I asked directions on
how to get down to her home, which wasn’t too
hard. It was all new to me. He told me what train
to get on, so I went out and got on the train and
sat down and I thought, I’ll have to watch real
close so I’ll know where to get off at. I turned
around and looked and right across from me was
a fellow sitting there and this fellow happened to
be in our outfit over in Germany.
PHYLLIS: Oh, no.
PHYLLIS: Were they well attended?
EARL: He was discharged three months before.
EARL: I thought they were well attendednot
heavily attended. No, but they were well
attended.
PHYLLIS: What a coincidence.
PHYLLIS: In your experiences, did you ever
have any entertainers come over?
EARL: I can’t remember their names now, but
yes, we did have some. We didn’t have any big
entertainers that I would remember but they had
some that were still name entertainers back then
that came over. We say them a few times.
EARL: But the thing about it ishow small the
world is.
PHYLLIS: Yes.
EARL: Not only was it in Chicago, which is a
big place, but we happened to be on the same
train, the same car, the same end of the car.
�EARL Hutchinson Page 15
PHYLLIS: That is amazing. Then what did you
do after you came home?
PHYLLIS: Didn’t have the same effect. Is there
anything else that you remember that you want
to share with us today?
EARL: I went with my Dad and we were setting
up a general repair business in the middle of
Loves Park and he had, had a part of it set up
while I was gone and I helped get it organized
when I first cam back.
EARL: Give me a second here. Why don’t you
shut it off for a second. Hold itshut it off for a
minute. . . . Now we are going again.
PHYLLIS: Did you have any difficulty in your
adjustment back to civilian life?
EARL: Well, there were a couple of little
things. One wasat least in our outfitI don’t
know if it was in all of Europe or notbut at
least in our division, or our company or our
battalion whatever it waswe had an expression
that we used without thinking of it and that was
the words “Just some” and all of us over there
knew what it meant. If I went up to the front and
I would come back, they would say, “How were
things up at the cross roads up there?”” And I
would say “just some hot up there” meaning that
it was really hot and “Just some” meant an awful
lot or very much. If you came in from outside
into an enclosure some place and they would
say, “How’s the weather out there?” “Just some
raining out there.” and they all go the message
that it was really raining.
PHYLLIS: That’s interesting.
EARL: Another one I came home withby the
time you go through all these countries your
everyday languageone sentence may have
three different languages in it. One that took a
while to drop was “beaucoup” which means “a
whole lot”. And two or three others that we used
all the time while we were over there and when
you came back home you had to drop those.
PHYLLIS: No one was into these special
expressions.
EARL: No. You had to explain them, but they
still weren’t going to use them or remember
them.
PHYLLIS: Earl is remembering an incident
with the jeep.
EARL: This was innorth of Rome in Italy.
Stop to think for a minute that in Italy a lot of
those small towns are built up on a hillside or up
on top of a little hill. The reason being that they
saved the low lands then for farming. And we
drove up to the one town, [Rapadieppa], and it
had a wall around it so people wouldn’t fall off
the hill you might say. We were eating our meal
along the wall. It was evening time and we could
look across the valley. There was another town
over there about two miles away, maybe three
mile and we were stopping to think. “Here we
are standing here and watching all this and to
think that yesterday the Germans were here”.
Nobody knew anything ahead of time so after
we finished eating they said, “Get your things all
packed up. We’re pulling out”. We pulled out in
a convoy. We couldn’t use the highway because
the highway bridge had been blown up. There
was a river there. They routed us down across
the farmland, up the bank to the railroad track
which had all been torn out and used that for a
road way. The bridge was still in for that, but
bombs had been dropped all over that and there
were craters all along there and it was just so
dark at night you just couldn’t see the jeep ahead
of you. They had white tape along the sides for
you to follow and they had army engineers at
every chuck hole or every bomb crater, I should
say, to tell you to stay to the right or the left a
little bit. When he said a little bit, he didn’t
mean a long ways. He meant just a little bit, so
we managed to get over that and got back on the
highway again. We went just a half a mile and
pulled off on a country lane. I hadn’t gone very
far, maybe a city block, when all of a sudden my
jeep went off in the ditch to the right and put it
in low gear, low range, and pulled back on the
road. No problem. There were six of us on that
jeep heading for the top of the hill near the front.
�EARL Hutchinson Page 16
Like I said before, it was so dark, it was one of
those during the new moon when it is dark out
and it was cloudy out and you couldn’t see the
jeep ahead of you. You might see a dark blob it
you were lucky and I had a big truck behind me
with maybe fifteen fellows on it. So I’m going
along here and my left wheels go off into the
ditch. Just as they went off in to the ditch, I put
it in low range again and as soon as I did, that
wasn’t a ditch. That was a bank. The jeep rolled
down the bank. Arms and legs went flying every
which way. Well as the jeep stopped, I was the
only one left underneath it. I was hanging on to
the steering wheel. I had what they called a wire
catcher on the front, which was a safety device. I
had a wire reel on top because I was in the wire
section. The two of them kept the jeep off of me.
The big truck behind mehe saw that the dark
blob disappeared and he didn’t know if I went
off into the valley or where I went so he stopped
and everybody jumped off and came to find me
and they found me under the jeep. There were
enough fellows there, they rolled the jeep back
on its wheels again. My sergeant then drove the
jeep up the bank because you could feel around
when you were on your feet. He got it back on
the road again. “Why don’t you drive it the rest
of the way?” “Oh no. He’s not driving that
thing.” They all trusted me to drive and it was
probably another half mile to the top of the hill
and we pulled into the town. And no one got
seriously hurt.
PHYLLIS: That’s just what I was going to ask.
That’s quite an experience. (EARL was also
remembering abut his operation when he was in
Africa.)
EARL: This is just something on the
personalit has nothing to do with the war
really, but it is just something I never forgot.
They sent me into the hospital, nice hospital
right down in Oran. We had taken it over for the
Army. The fellows there by the way, were doing
eight and ten hernia operations a day. So the
doctors had a lot of experience, but at the
operation, I was given a spinal injection instead
of which freezes you from the waist
downputting you to sleep. They took me into
the operating room and put a hoop over my
waist line and put a sheet over that so I wouldn’t
see down or anything. Then they put a little
metal shield over my eyes so I couldn’t see that
way. But I started to wiggle my eyes and the
nurse said, “Hey, you can’t do that, you’ll get
sick.” And I said “No, that’s alright.” So she
took it off then and I got just a little bit sick and
that didn’t bother her much. I looked up at the
reflectors where the lights were and as it turned
out, the reflectors over there in Africa were all
mirrors. They didn’t have chrome and all that. I
was able to watch in that mirror and see the
whole rest of the whole operation. It was
interesting. Each nurse had some little special
job to do.
PHYLLIS: Did you feel that the medical people
did a good job?
EARL: Oh, they did a good job.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
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Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Phyllis Gordon
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Earl Hutchinson
Location
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Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Earl Hutchinson
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 8, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born December 4, 1921, Earl Hutchinson was drafted into the Army. He died November 8, 2001.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
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PDF Text
Text
Earl Vogelpohl
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 397 9112
�Earl Vogelpohl
Aviation Radio Operator with
Navy Bomber Squadron
Today is February 8th, l994. My name is
James Will. I am a volunteer with the Rockford Museum Center which is cooperating
with a state wide effort to collect oral histories from Illinois citizens that participated in
events surrounding World War II. Today we
are in the home of Earl Vogelpohl who lives
at 4325 Harvest Trail in Rockford, Illinois.
Mr. Vogelpohl served in a branch of the
United States Armed Forces during World
War II. We are going to interview him today
about his experiences in that war.
VOGELPOHL: I had two brothers who
were quite a bit older. They had a son and
about a year and a half later another son then
thirteen years separated the youngest son to
a daughter and she was about fourteen
months older than me.
WILL: Earl, would you please introduce
yourself to us. Give your full name, place of
birth and date of birth.
WILL: What were their names?
VOGELPOHL: Earl John Vogelpohl. I was
born in Washington County near Okawville,
Illinois on a farm. It’s about forty-five miles
east of St. Louis, Missouri. My birth date
was July 18th, 1924.
WILL: No. Your brothers.
WILL: Can you give your parents names
including you mother’s maiden name?
VOGELPOHL: My father’s name was
Henry Christopher Vogelpohl and my mother’s name was Anna Dorothea Austendorf.
This was a German settlement obviously and
in an area when I was small they still had
100% German services in the church that
my parents attended. A lot of people spoke
German and we were suspect of anyone especially the Irish at the time. For what reason, I don’t know.
WILL: Were they born over here in the
United States?
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. Both of them were.
WILL: Okay. Did you have any brothers or
sisters?
WILL: You’re the youngest?
VOGELPOHL: So my mother had me
when she was forty so they’re quite a bit
older then.
VOGELPOHL: Henry and Anna.
VOGELPOHL: Oh, the names of the
brothers. The oldest one was Harvey; the
second one was Eugene; my sister was Bernice. We went to a rural school, one roomer.
I think all of us did.
WILL: Are there any other special events
that happened in your family’s history before World War II that you’d care to share
with us?
VOGELPOHL: Well, I had a great grandparent that almost got into the Civil War. He
lived back in the woods and a bunch of fellows wanted to leave the little town of Addieville and walk into St. Louis which is
about forty-five miles and during the night it
rained and he couldn’t get across the creek
to meet the boys. He went back home, got
an axe and his little brother to go with him.
He chopped down a tree over the creek, sent
the kid back with the axe, the younger
brother, got into town. The ones leaving had
already gone so he went to the next town
that was about four miles. They had gone
from there so he chased them to the next
town in [Mascoutah] and they were still
�ahead of him. He decided he was going to
try to catch them before they got to Belleville. After that the world became too complicated and he knew he wasn’t going into
St. Louis by himself. He never found them
in Belleville so he turned around and went
back home. He must have walked a total of
forty some miles that day and he never did.
WILL: Never made it. What were you doing just before World War II? I mean what
year did you graduate and where did you
graduate?
VOGELPOHL: From an elementary school
called Plum Hill and it was in Washington
County.
WILL: You never went to high school?
VOGELPOHL: No one in our immediate
vicinity. Very few went to high school. We
weren’t even in the high school district that I
know of. Some went to a three year high
school in the town and so I never got a GED
or, I finally got a Bachelor of Music on the
GI Bill.
WILL: What were you doing, what was
your job just before the war in 1940 – 1941?
VOGELPOHL: Just living on the farm.
WILL: Doing farm work.
VOGELPOHL: Doing farm work.
WILL: Okay. What thoughts did you have
about the war before the United States became directly involved?
VOGELPOHL: A lot of young people now
get into dope and mind expanding things
and I didn’t know too much about that. I
wanted to see the world and I wanted adventure. I read some books --three books in particular stand out about World War I. Two of
them were concerning air groups. One was
Wings. That was, I think, a Columbia or
Paramount picture--Buddy Rogers and Clara
Bow. The other one was--I’ve never been
able to find another copy was called Lilac
Time and then, of course, I read All Quiet
on the Western Front, a German infantry
man, and I knew I wanted to get into combat. There was actually two things I wanted
to really do and was to play a violin well and
the other one was to go into combat and I’m
still working on the violin. I’m in the Junior
College Community Chamber Orchestra at
Rock Valley.
WILL: Good enough.
VOGELPOHL: I was at the right age at the
right time unmarried and no responsibilities
when the war came along but I stayed with
the folks on the farm until they could get
things sort of packed in. My dad was in his
sixties at this time. They retired from farming and I left for the Navy. I was near being
drafted any way I think.
WILL: You were about what--Seventeen or
eighteen?
VOGELPOHL: But I volunteered. I was
nineteen. Just turned nineteen. I volunteered
when I got the next--you know, about every
six months you were reclassified. So I just
told them I was ready to go. They sent me to
Chicago for a physical exam and found out
could get in any of the services--Coast
Guard, Army, Navy or Marines. I had a
friend that was in the Navy. He told a lot of
pretty good sea stories so I decided to go to
the Navy. Hoping to go by degrees, I was
hoping I would get boot camp at Great
Lakes but instead they put us on a train. I
could look out and see license plates on cars
that said Wisconsin so I knew we were going somewhere else.
WILL: This was in ’43 or something like
that.
VOGELPOHL: ’43.
WILL: But before the war now, when the
Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, what were
you doing. Where were you? Do you remember this?
�VOGELPOHL: Well, we had a radio but
we had company that Sunday. Being out on
a farm, you’re kind of isolated. I turned the
radio on in the evening for some Sunday
program. I think Jack Benny was one of
them we always listened to and we found
out Pearl Harbor had been bombed. Actually
we didn’t know too much about it. Both of
my parents at this time had only been in two
states so they never traveled widely
WILL: They didn’t know where Pearl Harbor was.
VOGELPOHL: They had no idea but I had
seen in the movietone [newsreel] or one of
those March of Time [films] that we were
going to be ready regardless at Pearl Harbor
so I knew where it was but I didn’t really
know where the Hawaiian Islands were. It
surprised us but it was a long way away so
you really didn’t get too excited in the midwest.
VOGELPOHL: No.
WILL: Did they have feelings toward you
after this?
VOGELPOHL: No. We did have a kid that
I graduated from grade school with became
a minister. He sort of leaned toward the
Germans and he was kind of unpopular and
he became a minister and he died early. I
don’t know what this means exactly but he
was kind of unpopular at the time.
WILL: What were your thoughts on Hitler’s
speeches or anything?
VOGELPOHL: Well, we could hear some
of them on the radio and my parents both
spoke German. I just barely got by on it.
They listened to his speeches. My mother
couldn’t believe that this was happening.
WILL: That he was doing what he was doing?
WILL: You didn’t have much reaction then.
VOGELPOHL: No. Not having come from
a military family. I don’t think I knew more
than two or three people that were in the
service before the draft in 1940, I guess it
was.
WILL: Have you formed any opinion or
beliefs about what was taking place in Europe and Asia.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. We were following
the war in Europe, being Germans, I guess.
Not having sympathy for the Germans part
of it but it’s kind of, we only took the paper
in the winter time. In the summer time you
didn’t have time to read the paper so in the
winter you’d take it for a few months, you
know. Yeah we knew there was a war going
on and there was rationing and this type of
thing and tires were hard to come by.
WILL: You say you were of German heritage. Were there any people against you personally or anything like that?
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. Later on but in the
first part they knew that Germany was in,
had financially problems. They weren’t very
adamant about it.
WILL: What events led to your entry in the
military service? Were you just waiting to
be drafted?
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. I’d been wanting to
go all along and when your buddies keep
going so then I decided I wanted to leave
that fall. I probably could have gotten another.
WILL: Fall of ’43.
VOGELPOHL: ’43.
WILL: What was your response, what was
the response from your family and friends
about you going into the service?
VOGELPOHL: There were an awful lot of
people going at that time. Almost every fam-
�ily had somebody in the service and even
though your parents not really enjoy seeing
you go into the service that that will eventually or possibly lead you into warfare, I
think they were proud of me. My two older
brothers, the second oldest was physically
unfit and my oldest brother was past the age
at that time when they were drafting.
WILL: Talking about your basic training
here, when and where were you inducted?
VOGELPOHL: I was inducted in Chicago.
We went to Farragut, Idaho, for, it’s right on
Lake Pend Oreille in the upper stem of Idaho. When ever they were building bases,
Eleanor Roosevelt flew across this area,
looked down and saw this beautiful pearl of
a lake, Lake Pend Oreille, and she said, “My
that would be a nice place for a naval training station.” Lo and behold, she must have
told “Frankie” and they built a boot camp
there along with some training school in
Idaho.
VOGELPOHL: They said in the aptitude
test that they wanted to send me to school so
they just put down what they thought looked
good. It was machinist mate and motor machinist mate and I don’t know. You know
these are all strange things to me. At boot
camp one day someone from the office came
through and got four of us out of a company
out of about one hundred and thirty and said
we would like to know if you would consider flying in the Navy? I think we all volunteered right on the spot. He said, “You’ll
have to take another physical and we’re going to give you some more tests. If you qualify for this, chances are you can fly. We
took the tests and whenever I got back, I had
a leave after boot camp, came back home
and then back to boot camp. Then one night
my name was on a list to go to Naval Air
Technical Training Center at Memphis,
Tennessee, as an aviation radioman , They
had me down as an aviation ordinance man,
machinist mate and aviation radioman. Radioman came up. I guess they needed people
there.
WILL: I never heard of that.
WILL: This is a choice they gave?
VOGELPOHL: Oh, yeah. Farragut, Idaho.
VOGELPOHL: No.
WILL: Now you were what, nineteen at the
time?
WILL: You qualified for all.
VOGELPOHL: Nineteen.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah.
WILL: Do you have any special memories
of your training or,
WILL: What did you think of the training?
Was it adequate enough?
VOGELPOHL: The first time I had ever
been this far away from home and I thought
this is it. I’ll never find my way back. It was
beautiful country up in the mountains and
the elk and deer running around everywhere.
It was absolutely beautiful.
VOGELPOHL: We went to Memphis,
Tennessee, and we had eighteen weeks of
radio and two weeks of super secret radar. It
was a pretty hush, hush thing at the time and
actually, I think possibly if it hadn’t been for
the radar in World War II there was a very
good chance we would have had an awful
time. I mean that. We would have probably
messed up in the Battle of Midway by cracking the Japanese code and being able to find,
England would most certainly would have
had some problems if they hadn’t had a radar net at the coast in the Battle of Britain.
During this time I got the German measles
WILL: This is where you had basic.
VOGELPOHL: Basic.
WILL: What were your trained in?
�so they sent me to the hospital for two
weeks not knowing exactly what was wrong
with me.
WILL: This is in Memphis?
VOGELPOHL: In Memphis. So they put
me in a ward with people with Scarlet Fever.
Whenever I was okay after two weeks they
sent me back to duty for one day and then I
had to go back to the hospital for four more
weeks with Scarlet Fever.
WILL: Your unit wasn’t designated yet.
VOGELPOHL: No. I was in radio school.
They had ordnance school. They had Marines there that were in the same training.
We had a lot of swimming and combat training, hand grenades, bayonet and all this type
of happy stuff. We had eighteen weeks of
that.
WILL: Do you remember the name of the
camp in Memphis?
WILL: What next, huh.
VOGELPOHL: At this time, what we were
learning basically was codeInternational
Morse Code because at this time you had no
way of communications of voice of this distance. We had to learn the code, be able to
take coded groups at twenty words a minute
and plain language at twenty-two words a
minute. You had to be able to make up messages. This is kind of a tricky thing because
just looking at a message you know who
sent it, who it was going to, the time,
Greenwich Civil Time, the urgency of the
message and some other particulars about it
that, so just making up a message was really
,
WILL: Can you explain Greenwich Civil
Time?
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. We were beyond the
one hundred eightieth parallel which is
where the day starts. Greenwich Civil Time
is a hundred and eighty degrees some place
in Scotland where it is noon whenever it’s
midnight.
WILL: On the other side.
VOGELPOHL: Right. On the zero parallel
opposite.
WILL: Now in this training, what unit were
you in. For the record, we have to have this.
Was it strictly training in a group?
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. Naval Air Technical
Training Center and it was at Millington
which was about twenty miles northwest of
Memphis, make that northeast of Memphis.
West would have been in the river somewhere.
WILL: Missouri or Arkansas. During your
training or after your training did you have
any leaves or passes?
VOGELPOHL: Well, just one from boot
camp up to this time and graduating from
the Naval Air Technical Training Center.
The next step was you had to learn gunnery
because in the Navy everyone has two
things that they have to be able to do. One is
you have a specialist rate. I was going to be
an aviation radioman and radar operator and
you also have a battle station. We can talk
more about that later. But a battle station
you have to know something about guns
even though it may not concern guns. It may
be damage control. It could be any number
of things. We did have to learn gunnery,
basically machine guns, thirty and fifty caliber. The next place we went was Naval Air
Gunner School, NAGS, which was near
Jacksonville, Florida, in some swampy land.
At night all creepy crawly creatures would
come out and crawl across the road, some
had legs, some slithered and it was a lot of
mosquitoes but it was a gunnery school
down in the swamps near Cecil Field.
WILL: This is still part of your training.
VOGELPOHL: We had classes.
�VOGELPOHL: Yeah. And you got, at that
time, if you flew you got half again as much
pay. In other words I was Seaman Second
Class at this time getting $54 a month. This
meant I would get what, seventy something,
you know. They took us up for the first time
in a little SNJ, a two engine Beechcraft, to
see how you could handle flying. I suppose
there were some people saying I don’t want
to get in it but up to this point before they go
any further.
WILL: How’d you do?
VOGELPOHL: No problems there. Then
after that we went to Jack’s Municipal No. 1
which is north of Jacksonville, Florida. It
was an old CCC Camp so they had barracks
out in the beautiful little piney woods. They
build an airstrip there and this is where the
Navy was training its PB4Y1s which is the
same as the Army’s B24. I was too heavy to
get into some of the, too big, to get in some
of the planes ship-board plane, this is what
the PB4Y1 is. It needs a runway to take off
and land. Some of the smaller ones, I was
one of the two biggest ones in our group
down there. To get into a, like a radio gun
station in the back of a SB2C, which would
be a scout bomber by Douglas which is a
dive bomber or to crawl down into a TBF
that President Bush flew, for example. It
was kind of a bad spot because every time
they crashed the radioman if anybody got
hurt the radioman always got killed because
he was down in the part that would always
get smashed. There were SBD Scout Bombers by Douglas. There were also other flying
jobs like flying the big cargo planes, the
Coronados and this type of thing. This is
what came up and this is what I took.
WILL: After your training was over
VOGELPOHL: We were still in training.
Jackson Municipal #1 is where the crew got
together. The Navy tried to keep people in
combat in our type of work, in combat area
no longer than six months. After six months
they would send a crew home for more
training the people then became the senior
people in the next crew. We had three people that had been out before at Guadalcanal.
Our plane captain which was an aviation
machinist’s mate had been out before. Our
first radio man had been out before and our
pilot had been out before. Here’s where the
crew got together for the first time. You
flew together and of course I was always the
baseball fan of the St. Louis Cardinals and
we got together just as the Cardinals and
Browns can you believe it. It was the only
time the Browns ever played in a play off I
guess. They were playing in the World Series. I think this was about six weeks we
flew together. We learned inter-plane communications getting familiar with each other
and each oneswe dropped smoke bombs
on targets. I’m not sure whether we had
gunnery. We probably did but I don’t remember it. This would be like a ship or a
boat towing a spar on a long cable. We
would shoot at the spar to see how close we
came.
WILL: Target practice.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. Then after this we
went for more training across the country to
San Diego. We went to Camp Kearney that
is across from the main gate of Camp Pendleton, the big Marine base. It was another
B24 thing and we hadwe went to different
fields around there for different things. We
had a lot of combat plane identification and
we had mock-up models where a film would
show you being attacked by planes and you
would be in a turret and it would show you
when you pressed a trigger where you
should be aiming to hit this plane.
WILL: It was hi-tech in those days.
VOGELPOHL: Yes. It was pretty hi-tech
stuff in those days. I’m surprised at this time
you had a lot of unsophisticated people and
to get an outfit that can go out and do the
things that we did in as good a fashion as we
did, it just amazes me to this day. Here’s a
farm kid, you know, that hadn’t even been to
high school and another one just like it from
Oklahoma. Our pilot was from St. Louis.
�We had two junior officersone from Ohio
and one from Long Island. Basically the rest
were from the east, Elizabeth, New Jersey;
one from Indiana; a couple more from Ohio,
Pennsylvania.
WILL: These crew membersdo you keep
in contact with them today?
VOGELPOHL: A lot of them have died
off. My pilot I met here in Rockford. He
moved to Rockford. He told me he was going to start ahe was from St. Louis so he
told me he was going to start a wholesale
beer distributorship so he came with a real
winner, Falstaff. Anyway the last I heard he
was still over here on North Central and he’s
pushing Canada Dry. I don’t know if he’s
still1 alive or not. I haven’t seen him for
about ten years. I went over to see him several times. He didn’t seem very interested
I’ve had several of the old crew membersa fellow from Pittsburgh come over.
He had a brother in Eau Claire, Wisconsin,
and as he came around the bottom of the
lake he would stop past and see me on
WILL: A few of them you haven’t forgotten. Do you remember their names?
VOGELPOHL: Oh yeah. I remember the
names of all of the men. Sure.
WILL: Can you name a few of them maybe, just for the record?
VOGELPOHL: Well, there wasthe skipper was Frank Carlem(?). The two junior
officersthe one from Ohio was Vogelstein
(?); the one from Long Island was Langman.
The plane captain was from Pittsburgh at the
time. Later he moved to Chicago. I saw him
out here at some air shows a –number of
times. There was Whitey Compton and the
fellow from Oklahoma was a machinist’s
mate. He was TommyThomas and the one
that I saw several times after the war was
Robert M. Bennett. He was from Pittsburgh
and later moved to Michigan some place.
And the radio man we had Willy Williams.
He was from __?__. Osling was from Boston, myself and we ended up with a guy by
the name of Sitaro who came from Elizabethtown, New Jersey. He replaced a kid
from Texas that had gotten a venereal disease and they didn’t feel that they could treat
him out in the islands so he had to stay in
Hawaii. That’s where we picked this guy up.
He had gotten that far and some time earlier
and he replaced.
WILL: You have a good memory. After all
of your training, you’re out in San Diego for
final training.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. We were out there
for little over a month.
WILL: Did you get a furlough? Did you
ever get back to Illinois?
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. I had a little short
leave after Naval Air Gunners’ School in
Florida. That was, I don’t know, maybe a
week. Then I had leave in transit. In other
words they said we’ll give you four days to
get from Florida to California and so being
not that far away I stopped in for a day.
WILL: On your way.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. St. Louis. But a poor
buddy of mine from Pittsburgh at that time,
Long Island, or wherever it was, I can’t remember who it was now. They only had two
hours and they had to get on another train.
They couldn’t get any plane. They didn’t
have a high enough priority so they were
only home two hours. They took off again.
This is a long way, chair car all the way
from St. Louis to California. Promised a
sleeper. They said it would get better at
Kansas City. At Kansas City they said we’ll
have one for you at Ogden, Utah. At Ogden,
Utah, they said forget about it. It won’t happen here. So we got to, finally on the night
after Christmas night we had the plane loaded down with gas, all of our gear in it and
we took off for Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii.
�WILL: This was Christmas must have been
of ’43?
VOGELPOHL: ’44. Before this whenever
they would fly planes over, they would just
take about five crew members and the rest
would come by ship. The pilots would say
we want to stay together. We were overloaded and kept topping off the gas tanks
and we had two bomb bay tanks instead of
bombs or anything you put two big huge
tanks and I think they have about two hundred and eighty-five gallons apiece. They
were locked into the bomb bay so you had
an extra five hundred gallons of gas. It took
us I think fourteen, twenty-two hours to fly
from __?__ to __?__. We flew over there in
a little over four hours when my wife and I
went in 1980.
WILL: Times have improved.
VOGELPOHL: Then we had more training
in Hawaii. We trained there for about a
month. We had air to air firing __?__, air to
ground bombing and so on and so forth.
They sent us out at the end of January in
1945. At this time we were, I suppose we
were ready. We had been flying together
since September through the end of January.
I ran into Army people up there, Army Air
Force people that had never fired a machine
gun in the air; that had never seen a smoke
bomb dropped or a water bomb. He was just
a gunner and he was on his way. He said,
“The Army communicates in one way. If
you want to call the pilot this is the way we
do it. We have a number system. The pilot
was 1, the co-pilot 2, the navigator 3; the
radioman 4, the bow turret gunner and so
on.” Numbers all the way back so you
would call a number. For example, I was 5
in the bow. It wasn’t a battle station. It had
two fifty- caliber machine guns. You could
cut grass with two fifty-caliber machine
guns. If I wanted to call the guy in the tail
for example, maybe looking at something I
couldn’t quite figure out what it was say ten
from five, “What do you see out there?”
Everybody knew that the nose turret was
calling the guy in the tail turret to look at
something he wasn’t able to determine what
it was. You see something on the water, we
would go on patrols. Most of them were
eight, nine, ten hours and you’re just out
there. Sometimes you see nothing but water.
Water starts to look a like after six or eight
hours.
WILL: Get kind of dizzy looking at water.
VOGELPOHL: But you see something and
it could be a whale spouting or your looking
for submarines and this type of thing so you
have to communicate back and forth.
WILL: This is out of Hawaii then?
VOGELPOHL: Well, from Hawaii, we
were supposed to take a plane, a new plane,
to the Marshall Islands in [Eniwetok] so we
left there near the last of January and we
took off in the afternoon. We flew to Johnson Island which is hardly much bigger than
about two flat tops put end to end. It’s just a
little rock. We staid there overnight. The
next morning we took off and we flew ’til
about three in the afternoon to [Eniwetok]
and we delivered the plane. Then they put us
in transit barracks and we had to wait for air
service to come along. The Army, Navy and
Marine stopped there, the different services
stopped there moving people around by
plane. While we were there, it’s a big shipping area, a lot of ships in the harbor and we
had submarine scares and not allowed to
make a light, not allowed to light a cigarette
at night. Sometimes no cooking fires so you
ate cold Spam the next morning and this was
a pretty introduction to what come later. Finally we got a ride out of there after three or
four days and we flew to Guam and we were
just there over night. Pretty primitive in
Guam at this time. The next morning we got
a flight with the Marines again to Tinian
which was basically our home. Tinian became the island with, I think, five-eleven
thousand foot runways and a B29s base. Of
course, they had one at Saipan and they had
one at Guam. Guam was a few hours flying
time from Tinian so they had to load less
bombs and more gas to go to Japan and fly
�past Tinian to do it so figured the islands
down there were better. They were still
building these runways. The Naval Air Station we only had an old fifty-five hundredfoot strip up on top of the hill. It was a Naval Air Station. They worked around the
clock, day and night any kind of weather,
hauling coral, smashing it, putting down the
runways for B25s so what they could do, if
they only needed half the runways but if you
got five of them here you can have five
planes come in here. Five planes come in the
middle. They all set, they all take off ten at a
time. As soon as they clear you have five
more coming in and five the same way with
landing. Set this one down had to cross,
WILL: Saves time and,
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. And they had B29s
up, this is where the Enola Gay came from
that carried the atom bomb Anyway we got
to Tinian and we were in the squadron
VPB116 V means heavier than air; PB
means patrol bombers and 116 was the unit.
WILL: That was your unit from the beginning.
VOGELPOHL: That was our combat unit.
We had eighteen crews and fifteen planes so
the junior group never had a plane to take up
which was kind of good in a way because
you did have to have somebody on guard
duty there at all times, twenty-four hours a
day.
WILL: They didn’t rotate.
VOGELPOHL: No. The senior people had
their own plane. We would fly this plane
this time and this plane the next time so you
never
WILL: Superstitions about the planes?
VOGELPOHL: Yeah and a little of that.
Well we managed to hack it out for six
months. Shortly after we got therewe got
there I think the first of February or the second of February in 1945, the last year of the
war and the Japanese were pretty well beaten down. They didn’t have a lot of stuff. We
only had a couple air raids while we were on
Tinian and I don’t know whether we everI
don’t remember any bombs falling. I remember air raids going out at night, getting
into bunkers and stuff. But they had an interesting little thing. I have a picture of me
holding a little goat. Ernie Pyle was on Tinian at this time and he wrote about a goat in
his dispatches back here and it’s the goat
that I’m holding. About three days after the
picture was taken the goat disappeared. The
Marines had a barbecue one night. Nobody
knows where they got the meat. Anyway the
big thing that was happening was Iwo Jima
was about to be stroked. I think they landed
on there about the 14th or the 16th something
like that.
WILL: Were you involved in that?
VOGELPOHL: We were later. It was a real
toughy. I have some pictures of it. To try to
pin down thesee if we could find any
remnants of the Japanese fleetwe knew
they still had tis big battle ship with the
eighteen-inch guns. So we took off from
Tinian and another plane had done this two
days before. We flew in the Japanese islands
up here and all around, sneaking and poking
our nose around. Didn’t see too much of
anything but then we didn’t have enough gas
to fly back to Tinian so we were going to set
her down on the old Japanese airstrip number two which was right along side of the
south beach.
WILL: Never had the same one.
WILL: On Iwo Jima.
VOGELPOHL: That was kind of bad because some people kept their guns in good
shape; some people kind slip shod on them.
Some planes were dirty.
VOGELPOHL: On Iwo Jima. This was the
first time I would see combat close up. At
the end of the strip they had a ridge and it
�had the Marines on our side and the Japanese were on the other side. Two days before a B24 had tried the same thing, came in,
set down and whenever he got to the end of
the strip the Japanese saw him come down
and they put up a bunch of trench mortars
and blew him all to pieces. They smartened
up a little so whenever we tried it they had
two light cruisers and about four destroyers
plus some field artillery around Suribachi.
They were firing and getting everybody to
put their heads down before we came in and
they started firing right over the top of us
over the ridge. At the end of the strip we
whipped it around and came back to the other end of the strip so we weren’t hit. But
when we took off we still had to fly out this
way but they kept hammering in there and at
this time there were
WILL: What were your feelings then?
VOGELPOHL: Well it was rather strange.
You were up on the wing gassing up and
you could here the shells going “fof fof fof
fof” and singing and ran into a guy there.
Everything was bad. Everything was torn
up. There was junk everywhere. You would
not believe the things that you see in a battlefield. Comic books, you know, bandages.
Here’s a place where they had a trench mortar and they still got about fifteen, twenty
cases of ammo they just popped open, just
sitting there waiting. You find a wire with a
little red flag on it. Here’s an unexploded
shell that had come in but nobody wanted to
mess with it. And food cans and clothing,
you know, some nice looking stuff, bottles
and cans. God it was awful.
WILL: Stuff you wouldn’t expect to see
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. It took so long to
take the island. The first night we were only
there a short time. The next time we went
we stayed over there three or four days and
we built our own tent. Everybody slept with
there head toward the middle of the tent because there were still Japs running around
sticking bayonets through the side of the
tents. We were there the night but were on
plane watch, another fellow and I, the night
that over a hundred Japanese came marching
four abreast right up the beach road. And
they had a new Army guard up there or a
Marine or somebody that didn’t give the
word and they got in among the P51 pilots
that they were just bringing in. They killed
over one hundred and seven pilots in one
night just by throwing grenades in the tents.
Take a bayonet, cut a hole in there and stick
a percussion grenade in there. The Japs had
good pyrotechnics. They had stuff that
would go off. You’re probably familiar with
our torpedoes that never went off.
WILL: Oh, yeah.
VOGELPOHL:
You
hit
a
ship
squareyou hit it at an angle, it might explode. But there stuff always seemed to go.
It was kind of touchy. But anyway we
hadwe finally got them calmed down and
on Easterno, on the first of Julyfirst of
April that year, we invaded Okinawa. It was
April Fools’ Day and it was Easter Sunday.
There wasn’t much going on. They thought
there would be. The Japs decided at this
time on Okinawa, they weren’t going to
fight them on the beach. They were going to
let them come to us where we were set up
and we would handle them. Of course we
didn’t really help them. After that it was just
__?__ patrol. We eventually sank eleven
Japanese ships in just our group. We damaged eleven. At least we get the credit for it
and we shot down one Japanese plane. At
this time the Navy was kind of “gung ho” on
medals. For every five combat patrols, you
got an Air Medal up to five of them. I had
thirty-nine combat patrols so I only got five
Air Medals but I did get a Distinguished Fly
Cross on the sixth of May. We went out and
sank four ships and shot down this one plane
in about an hour and a half, I guess.
WILL: This was off of Okinawa then?
VOGELPOHL: No. This was down in the
Nansi Shoto (?) group somewhere. I don’t
know exactly where it was. It waswhich
�would be south of Honshu, I think. I think
the Nansi Shoto (?) Group is south of Kyushu. It would be not too far from Okinawa.
WILL: In all these adventures, how about
casualties.
VOGELPOHL: We just had our first radio
man had his second brother killed in the service. They sent him home. If you had two in
the family killed, any other service personnel were sent home because they figured
that was adequate after the Sullivan boys,
five of them we had. The only one that really got wounded was our first radio man, a
kid from Boston. He had a bullet come
through the Plexiglas on the top turret and it
broke up a bunch of Plexiglas that stuck in
his face right near his eye. Other than
thatwe got hit a number of times, bullet
holes
WILL: Your plane did.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. We had one that
could almost be a comedy. A bullet came in
through the side from a fighter and hit exactly in a spot no bigger than a wire that closed
a parachute. Just as the tail gunner was having trouble with his gunsas he was coming out of his turret; he shouldn’t have been
out of his turret no matter what He thought
there was something stuck underneath and
he was going to fix it because he couldn’t
reverse his guns. Just as he got out, we had
hatch guns here on the side __?__ and this
was all open __?__. You got an area as big
__?__ fifty stuck out of the side and on each
side was a para, we never wore our parachutes because they are harnesses because
we always flew so low we didn’t have a belly turret, had a raid dome down in there for
radar. We’d fly so low we didn’t want anybody to get in under us. That was a no, no
you couldn’t defend. At the height we flew
there was no point in wearing a parachute
because you didn’t have time to, I mean
you’d be so close by the time you thought
about it jumping out why it wouldn’t even
open. A bullet came and hit the mechanism
of this wire through these two pegs sticking
up and you pull on the wire and you popped
your chute. With all this wind coming in the
back the slug hit this parachute and it
opened up.
WILL: The parachute opened up?
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. He thought it was
smoke. He thought we were on fire. By this
time the chute got over him, enclosed him
and he couldn’t get out and he didn’t know
for five minutes what was going on. He
thought we had bought the big one, bought
the farm.
WILL: Your crew more or less came
through it.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. You also had little
things like standing guard on the planes. The
Japanese on their New Year were supposed
to come out in a Kamikaze attack on Tinian
on their New Years so we doubled the plane
guards. All the people out on the strip and
what it amounted to , . I don’t think anybody
even saw a Jap, although there were Japanese still running around on the island. We
shot a chief and it was an ordinance man
who was driving a truck pulling these little
bomb “dealies”, you know, little four
“wheeler” where you have the bombs loaded
on.
WILL: This was an U. S.
VOGELPOHL: Shot a chief and one guy
that was a CB, maybe deserved to be shot
and another one. Anyway a guy came to relieve a CB who was not used to guarding out
on an airfield and the guard challenged him
whenever the CB came up to replace the
man and he said, “Halt. Who goes there?”
The guy said, “So “solly”. No Jap. Me a
CB.” The guy cut loose and killed the guy.
Dumb stuff. The first night that they were
under combat conditions there on Iwo Jima
was bad. We were away from the fighting
but there were flares going up constantly
and just a roar of ammunition going off and
it had to be tough.
WILL: How was the medical treatment?
�VOGELPOHL: I thought it was good. Of
course, I never needed a lot of it.
WILL: Top of the line at that time.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. We had good treatment. They did. It’s kind of hard to, there
was one time in there where we never really
got out of our clothes for about a week or
ten days. Everybody had like a fungus of the
feet, athlete’s foot type of thing and some on
the hands and the back and the ears but it
wasn’t all that bad. Food was kind of “iffy”.
We would get Ten-in-One rations if we
could which is a whole lot better than Krations. Your mouth would get so sore from
eating K-rations after a couple days you
couldn’t even swallow water. We ended up,
the tour of duty got back to Tinian and we
took a plane that had been, they were going
to throw in the junk pile and we said, “Hey,
let us fly back to Tinian. Give us gas.” We
had two other crews fly with us so we had
eleven in a crew. We had ten, so there were
thirty-two guys with no place to sit and it
was about a four hour hop from Iwo Jima
back to Tinian. We fooled around there because we figured the longer we fooled
around to go back to the States to make up
another crew and come back because at that
time they thought Japan would not surrender
until the last one was. . .
WILL: What were your thoughts on that at
that time, how the war was going?
VOGELPOHL: This was what we were
told they were going to fight to the last man
but we had people coming out there. We
saw some British ships. The war was over in
Europe. The British were out there. We
came upon Task Force 58 not knowing it
was there just in a routine patrol and I was
absolutely amazed. We came out of a cloud
bank and here is this fleet spread before us
and it was devastating. Could not believe, I
mean it’s a proud feeling. God, they must
have had twenty carriers, battleships; they
had the Missouri out there and Iowa, I guess.
As far as you could see from being up several thousand feet, as far as you could see in
three directions nothing but ships. There
were a couple of fighters just waiting for us
as soon as we popped out of the cloud even
though we had the IFF on which is Identification Friend or Foe they should be able to
pick you up on the radio as being a friend,
we heard on the radio, “Check them out. See
who the hell they are.” That’s what the guy
said. Here’s a couple of __?__ sitting there
and pulling right up along side of us, six
feet between the wing tip, hot pilots. A day
later we had a guy get too close. They fired
tracers in front of his nose to get him out
there. You’re too close. Back off. They
didn’t want anybody messing around with
them. God, they were rough.
WILL: So you figure with that many ships,
you knew that the U. S. was,
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. They had been up
bombing Japan with the [terrier] plane, you
know, with a TBS and SBDs and SP2Cs.
We never really ran into, we did silly things
like one day we wanted to go up and bomb
a, we had a lot of freedom to do what we
wanted to do. There was a Japanese airstrip.
It was really an auxiliary airstrip up at Honshu. We wanted to go up there and get there
right at daylight and make a bombing run
right down the middle of their field. Blow
them up. Catch them in the chow line. This
is something we wanted to do. It just never
worked for us. Foggy. We couldn’t find the
place. Finally it’s about eight o’clock. __?__
The mist is clearing up and the guys were in
the chow line true enough, I guess. Anyway
the planes are turning up. Trucks driving
around even with the gas hose on them and
they’re filling gas in the planes. You know
it’s too late to make, the pilot said, “You
want to go in and take them on”? I said,
“No. Better not”.
WILL: __?__ at night.
VOGELPOHL: Nothing in the air. But
there were several planes turned up so we
took off and flew up the coast ten or twelve
miles and saw a little freighter sitting out
there. We started making runs on it. First
�thing we know there are four fighters on our
back and they chased us out quite a bit and
then they went back. We figured they went
back in, so we decided we were going to go
back in and get this freighter because,
said, “What kind of crap is this, a bomb
that’s bigger than all the bombs that have
been dropped in the whole war.
WILL: You had enough fuel to turn around
and go back?
VOGELPOHL: Then, of course, whenever
we found out the next day or two, how the
Japanese were thinking about quitting then
we wanted to get home as fast as we could.
No point of, so we came back on a Jeep carrier. It took a week. It was the only time I
spent aboard ship in just about two and a
half years in the Navy. Well it wasn’t two
and a half it was twenty-eight months, something like that.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. We go back in and
this time they’re waiting around and man the
hammered this time. This was the time after
May the 6th when we had all the good luck.
Going in on a ship, you try to come in from
after the quarter. In other words, this is the
bow here, come in this way and rake him
with bow guns, top guns and as you’re
swinging away tail guns. Just shoot up his
armament where he can’t bother you too
much. Then you can go in and make the
drop. We had planes that were so bad electrically the bombs wouldn’t fall. We’d go
over a ship six or eight times and the bombs
would absolutely not fall so we kept an ordinance man to stand on the catwalk with
the bomb bay doors open. The catwalks
about a foot wide with a screwdriver in the
shackles and when the pilot drop, he twisted
the screwdriver and out the bomb fell.
That’s a bad way to bomb. Crazy thing. We
got back to Hawaii. We stopped at the Marshall Islands again overnight at Kwajalein.
Flew back with the Army I think it was. We
got to Hickam Field. The pilot put us in for
rest and rehabilitation. At this time there
were only three hotels on Waikiki Beach,
the Royal Hawaiian was one of them. The
Navy had it for “sub” men and for air crews.
They put us in for three days. Beautiful,
food you would not believe, milk, fried eggs
(after powdered eggs), ice cream, all the
good stuff. The only bad thing was you had
to wear whites to go down and eat. The last
night we were there they had Ted, no, let’s
see, they had Bing Crosby’s brother, Bob
Crosby and the Bob-Cats there as a USO
show out in the gardens with the waves
coming in and everything. A beautiful sight.
The next day we found out that an atom
bomb had been dropped on Hiroshima but at
that time it was called Hiroshioma. And we
WILL: You couldn’t believe this.
WILL: Twenty-eight months on a ship?
VOGELPOHL: No, it only took us seven
days to come back. That was the only time
out of my time in the Navy that I spent
aboard ship.
WILL: In all this time overseas did you
write a lot of letters home? Did you receive
a lot? Packages, letters, did it take a long
time for them to get there.
VOGELPOHL: Well, airmail would take a
week, five days sometimes. That’s pretty
good, not bad at all.
WILL: How often did you write home?
VOGELPOHL: I would write on the average of five to seven letters a week. I had a
large family at that time. I’m the only one
left now.
WILL: What kind of packages would you
get?
VOGELPOHL: They would usually be
hammered up, you know. Cigarettes. It was
really silly to send cigarettes out because
you could buy them for fifty cents a carton.
On Tinian we had a beer ration of twelve
cans a month. You had a card and you’d get
your card punched. You wanted to get a
hold of people who didn’t drink.
�WILL: Use their card.
VOGELPOHL: We got twenty-four cokes
and twelve cans of beer, that you could steal
from the Army. And that was easy.
WILL: Do you remain in contact with any
of your . . .
VOGELPOHL: Not now I don’t. My buddy that used to come see me here died. The
one in Chicago, we used to exchange
Christmas Cards and I haven’t heard from
him for two years. I don’t know whether
he’s alive or not. I did kind of keep in touch
with a guy from Oklahoma for a year or two.
He got married and got a family and a business of his own and he got too busy to mess
around with it. The pilot here doesn’t seem
interested in, I think I was at his place of
business about three times and he never
even offered me a beer so,
WILL: (Laughter) Or a cup of coffee.
VOGELPOHL: After the Jeep carrier got
back to San Diego, I flew home with American Airlines a DC2 or something like that.
Thirty day leave and I was hoping to get on
some field in the mid-west somewhere instead they sent me back to California to San
Francisco. They didn’t really know what to
do with us. They had need for about six radio men and finally there was fifty some of
us. You could volunteer and I volunteered to
get out of there and got into the shore patrol.
Then again there’s other places, you know
you had different places where you could
apply for. You could take a train that just ran
back and forth between El Paso and, but
then the train were sitting all this business,
so I put in for San Mateo. There was a race
track here. I didn’t now it at the time but we
put in __?__ for the whole racing season.
Show up at noon. You’re living on the
beach. You’re getting subsistence because
you’re not living on the base. You’re getting
food allowance. Show up at noon and the
races are over by five o’clock and that’s it.
WILL: Some time for yourself.
VOGELPOHL: They race five days a week
and you only get one day off so you had to
come in on Sunday and walk the beat or
paddy wagon or something like that and
that’s how I ended the war. I didn’t have
enough points to get out but if you had the
Distinguished Flying Cross at that time you
could get out on request. Just before Christmas they called me in and told me I got the
Distinguished Flying Cross. It was so close
to Christmas I didn’t want to be in transit on
a receiving ship somewhere over Christmas
so I just stayed in the Shore Patrol until I
think the second of January. I went to the
Federal Building and requested out and it
took about two weeks to, we were on a train
that was so old and decrepit, it had a coal
fired stove on it. Going north, we had it on
the front, you know the stove was on the
front. We kept it fired up pretty good. Had
buckets of coal there to do it with. At Ogden, Utah, where they make up a new train,
they turned us around some way or other.
Now the stove was in the back and up in the
front it was freezing, it was cold. When I
stepped off the train at Great Lakes, it was
right around zero, and a high wind coming
off of that lake. I had missed two winters in
a row and it was fierce. I thought it was pretty bad.
WILL: So you were eventually discharged ,
VOGELPOHL: At Great Lakes, yeah.
WILL: Great Lakes in Chicago. Stepping
back a few months, how did you hear about
VE Day?
VOGELPOHL: We had Stars and Stripes.
WILL: Okay.
VOGELPOHL: We had little papers and
some people were getting papers through the
mail. They would be late but we knew about
it. We knew it within hours when President
Roosevelt died. It wasn’t really all that remote, __?__ was a big place.
WILL: Because you were in there.
�VOGELPOHL: It’s still, you know. Communicate, you have planes coming through
all the time and air service ___?___ move
on. They would bring mail and passengers,
and people around, this type of thing. People
had radios. You could listen to Tokyo Rose
and get all the information you needed about
what was going on in the world and hear
good music at the same time.
WILL: You mentioned you were on Hawaii
when the atom bomb was dropped, right?
WILL: When you heard about the atom
bomb, what was your opinion?
VOGELPOHL: We didn’t, we had no idea
what it was.
WILL: You didn’t know what,
VOGELPOHL: No. The only thing that we
liked about it was that it was going to end
the war. I had a real strange reaction when
they, on VJ Day. It seemed like the saddest
time I could remember.
VOGELPOHL: Right. On the way back.
WILL: On VJ Day?
WILL: So you must have been there, VJ
Day?
VOGELPOHL: No. Two VJ Days were
aboard ship coming back. Everybody was
raising hell and,
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. I don’t know why. I
mean here you’re just focussed on something for so long and when it’s taken away,
you’re just at a loss.
WILL: That’s a different reaction.
WILL: Celebrating?
VOGELPOHL: As much as you can on a
Jeep carrier. We had the whole hangar deck
which is the deck below the flight deck with
cots strung across. You had to remember
where your cot was. Rescue gear was under
the cot. It was like 26-52. You had to remember your cot was twenty-six rows back,
or fifty-two rows back and then twenty-six
over from the right side. It worked pretty
good. There always was,
WILL: I suppose it was the best at that
time.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. Anybody that was
Second Class and I was Second Class Petty
Officer at that time, Anybody below Second
Class had to work in the chow line. Chow
line, you’re feeding all the time, going up
the ladders and,
VOGELPOHL: But I was glad it was over,
to get out of there.
WILL: How about your opinion of the atom
bomb being dropped on Japan?
VOGELPOHL: Today?
WILL: What’s your opinion of it looking
back fifty years?
VOGELPOHL: I think it was a wake up
call. We were going to have to go in there
and take this a foot at a time from the Japanese. On Iwo I think there were only about
four hundred that ever came out. The only
ones that I ever saw were nurses and doctors
and they looked like drowned rats that came
out of the holes. Iwo Jima is a stinking
place, a lot of sulphur and fumes and mist
coming out of the ground and its not a very
nice.
WILL: So many people.
WILL: Isn’t that kind of a volcano island?
VOGELPOHL: All these people aboard,
they had a number of different kitchens and
feeding areas.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. It’s one of the three
volcano islands that’s in the volcano group.
�The other two are just mountain tops sticking out of the water.
WILL: What was your rank when you were
discharged?
VOGELPOHL: Aviation Radio Man Second Class, Petty Officer.
WILL: Okay. And you just mentioned your
decorations. You had,
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. I got a Distinguished
Flying Cross, five Air Medals, Philippine
Liberation, the Asiatic Pacific American
Theater, and that’s the Air Medal Bar. For
each medal, you use the bar as one then you
get four stars for five air medals. Like I say
they gave them for five missions. This is the
baby that got me out. I kind of keep him
separate.
WILL: How many total? You were in thirty-nine flightscombat flights.
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. Thirty-nine.
WILL: How’d you get along with the men
that you had the greatest contact with? Pretty good?
VOGELPOHL: Yeah. We got along pretty
good. Everybody had his duty. It didn’t
seem right all the time. Like for example if
you get a couple of good USO shows and
you’re on plane guard on both of them but
this is just little “tinker” stuff. It’s not worth
We had a real good skipper of the squadron. When we got therehe was relieved,
came back for his rest and rehabilitation,
came back with his crewbut our Exec at
that time was kind of a hard nose. Then we
got an Exec that was pretty good but the
skipper of the squadron was kind of a jerk
He wanted us to march out to the planes two
abreast, all this kind of happy stuff. (Laughter). Mostly ignored him but he didn’t
lastOnly had to put up with him maybe a
month or so. Living conditions werewe
went on rest and rehabilitation for a week to
Palilote. God what a place that is! The sand
fleas started attacking about two o’clock in
the afternoon. From your knees down you
can hardly see any skin. They were just one
right on top of the other. Just take your fingernails, you knowall these little creepy
crawly things. You sleep under a mosquito
net and laying there usually with just a pair
of shorts on or something. The best thing to
do is get yourself a little lizard about this
long. Keep a couple of those in there with
you. They’d run across your chest but they
caught mosquitoes
WILL: They got fat on mosquitoes. (Laughter)
VOGELPOHL: There are some strange
places.
WILL: I don’t think youHere’s the question. You didn’t have anything to do with.
You never saw any prisoner concentration
camps on your flights.
VOGELPOHL: No. They had the natives
of the islands who were Korean probably on
Tinian that did things like that.
WILL: Japanese prisoners.
VOGELPOHL: No. They were Koreans
that lived there and they were farming. They
had sugar cane and this type of thing. They
had them dumping barrels, you know, of
waste. Want something to drink? Francie,
you want to get us a couple of cokes?
WILL: What is the most difficult thing you
had to do during your military service? Is
there anything that stands out.
VOGELPOHL: Well, I knew I wanted
tothere was a time to do it and when it’s
done, it’s time to get out. I enjoyed the last
month the least probably because at this
time I felt thatYou know the war had been
over since August. Here it is December and
all
these
people
are
coming
throughcoming back to the States and you
�were like war surplus. It’s a little different
whenever there’s a war going on, everybody
gives you a ride and everything, you know.
You put up your thumb, you’re gone. After
the war, things kind of tighten up like they
were. Almost like around Norfolk. Dogs and
sailors keep off the lawn type of thing. I just
wanted to get out. I didn’t want to make a
career out of it. I just wanted toI got taken
in by this far away places with strange
sounding names. I had the song. You remember it probably. I’d done all of this. It’s
time to do something else.
WILL: You were never disabled then.
VOGELPOHL: No.
WILL: You ever have any contact with the
Veterans’ Administration?
VOGELPOHL: I belong in my hometown
to the American Legion for a few years.
VOGELPOHL: Oh, yeah. Different times
whenever I’d be in a crunch for money just
call my oldest brother. For example we were
supposed to live on the beach now. You
don’t have a place to stay and you don’t
have enough money to feed yourself. You
don’t know where to go to get money to take
you for the next six days because that is
when the next payday is. You don’t have
any housing or food allotment at all so I’d
just call him up and say, “Hey I need fifty
dollars or a hundred dollars” or whatever
and Bingo it was there. Telegraphed. This
made it easier. A time or two I had to do that
whenever I got, I was travelling. For example if you only get $54 a month and $6 of
that goes for insurance, try buying a $60
railroad ticket some where. It’s tough. So
you just pay it back when you can.
WILL: One last question here. Is there any
one thing that stands out as your most successful achievement during your military
life?
WILL: What’s your opinion of the VA?
VOGELPOHL: I’m not a club type. Some
people like the Moose. They go down and
drink beer and play cards and Bingo or
whatever. I just was never into that.
WILL: You’ve never gone to any VA Hospital? You look pretty good and healthy to
me.
VOGELPOHL: I’m not that great really.
WILL: How did your family support you
during your military life?
VOGELPOHL: It was 100%. You know
they were.
WILL: Your brothers and sisters?
VOGELPOHL: I would get, hear from
some of the family probably twice a week. I
had a sister, three brothers and my mother
wrote. My dad may have written a couple.
WILL: They supported you.
VOGELPOHL: No. It was the greatest adventure. It was exactly what I was looking
for. Without it I think I’d, knowing what I
know now, at least, I think I would have enjoyed life a whole lot less. So many things
that refer back to, you know about something whenever you read a story of a different war, you know how people feel and how
people react and it made life a whole lot
more interesting. Because of the service,
there was the GI Bill that allowed me to try
to fulfill the other ambition that was to play
violin reasonably well. I got a degree in music. I taught in the public schools in Illinois
and in the high school for four years and in
the junior high for three years.
WILL: Here in Rockford. You didn’t do
this right out of the service, did you?
VOGELPOHL: No, I fooled around. I just
taught for seven years and ended up working
at Camcar-Textron, supervisor there. I
worked there a little over twenty-five years
totally.
�WILL: Where did you teach in Rockford?
VOGELPOHL: The first three years at
Wilson Junior High was open in the west
end. Little different now than it was then.
WILL: Music teacher?
VOGELPOHL: (Inaudible)
WILL: Thank you very much Earl. I guess
that about winds it up. Do you want to say
good-bye?
VOGELPOHL: Good bye.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jim Will
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Earl John Vogelpohl
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Earl John Vogelpohl
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
8-Feb-94
Description
An account of the resource
Born July 18, 1924, Earl John Vogelpohl was drafted in 1943 and served as a Navy radio operator. He died April 30, 2002.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
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Text
ElmerHooper-Page
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Transcribed by Lonaine LightcaP
For Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 GuilfordRoad
,/
Rockfor{ Illinois 6 I 107
Phone 8I5 397 9Il2
1
�2
Elmer Hooper
-Page
Elmer Hooper
Hello: Today is January 24, 1994. My name
is Charles Nelson. I am a volunteer with the
Midway Village & Museum Center which is
cooperating with the statewide effort to collect oral histories from Illinois citizens that
participated in the momentous events surrounding World War II. We are in the offrce
of Midway Village and I am talking to
Elmer F. Hooper who lives at 1507 Kay
Avenue, Rockford, Illinois. Mr. Hooper
served in a branch of the United States
Armed Forces during World War II. We are
interviewing him about his experiences in
this war.
NELSON: Mr. Hooper, would you Please
start by introducing yourself Please give us
your full name and place and date ofbirth?
HOOPtrR: My name is Elmer F. HooPer. I
was born in Eldora,Iow4 on July 12,1924.
NELSON: Would you like to-we would
also like to have the names of each of your
parents.
NELSON: What was life like before the
war, especìally before l94I?
HOOPER: I was a high school student. Life
was all fun and games. I was worried about
basketball, football, band and girls and having a good time being a teenager.
NELSON: How did you hear of the December 7, l94l bombing of Pearl Harbor by
the Japanese. If so, where were you and
what were you doing at the time?
HOOPER: I heard about it over the radio. I
don't remember where I was or what I was
doing. That's all I can remember.
I\{ELSON: What was your reaction and response ofthose around you?
I really didn't quite understand
what was going on. I was kind of mad about
the whole thing of the sneak attack. But due
to the age it really didn't sink in what was
happening at the time until later.
HOOPER:
NELSON: So you hadn't any oPinion on
HOOPER: My father was Elmer F. Hooper,
Sr. My mother was Alice Louise Hooper.
war in Europe and Asia?
NELSON: Did you have any brothers or
HOOPER: No, I didn't know
sisters?
HOOPER: No. I am the only child
NELSON: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of the German aggression in
Europe?
NIELSON: Are there any details about your
parents andlor your family that you would
like to give?
I
had an uncle that was retired
from the United States Navy and during the
war he was the commander of Mare(?) Island in the army. He retired as a Lieutenant
Commander.
IIOOPER:
HOOPER: No, I don't.
NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of
Hitler's speeches, ideas or actions?
degree> on what I
read in the newspapers, I knew about
would
Britain being in it and the troubles they were
having over there. But due to the young age,
HOOPER: To a small
�ElmerHooper-P€ge
it wasn't really sinking in or that I was really
concerned about it.
3
HOOPER: Just basic training. Learning
how to drill, chain of command and this type
of stuü prior to going into cadet training.
NELSON: What events led to Your entry
into the military service? Were you already
NELSON: What did you think of the train-
in the service, drafted or did you volunteer?
ing?
I
volunteered for the Air Force.
I was always interested in airplanes. I made
model airplanes as a high school student and
had flown with some of my friends that had
light aircraft at the time and there was aB17
bomber base at Sioux City, Iowa. They used
to fly over my hometown, which was about
sixty miles east of Sioux City. They fasci-
HOOPER:
nated me so much that I decided that I
wanted to go in the Air CorP and flY. I
wanted to be in one of those big bombers.
That's when I became interested in the Air
Corp, watching them fly over.
'Well, I think you anÌI{ELSON: Okay.
swered the next question so I'll go to the
basic training. When and where were you
inducted?
HOOPER: I enlisted in Peoria, Illinois, in
December of '42.I wasn't called up until, I
think it was February of '43. They sent me
to Santa Ana. First of all, they sent me to
Fresno, California, for Air Force basic and
from Fresno I went to Santa Ana because I
enlisted in the Cadets.
NELSON: How old were you
at the time?
HOOPER: Eighteen.
NELSON:
'Where
did you take your basic
training?
HOOPER: Fresno, California.
NELSON: What were you trained to do?
HOOPER: Well, some of it I thought was
kind of stupid. Some of it I thought was kind
of harsh. Some of it I could understand so
that's about all I remember ofthat.
NDLSON: Did anything special
happen
there?
HOOPER: No, nothing really special happened. The only really thing I can remember
about basic was they gave us a canteen and a
mess kit, sent us out to a gravel pile and we
had to scrub it out with sand and put sand in
the canteen and shake it all up. We used to
sit out there for an hour or so scrubbing
them 'Cotton pickin"' mess kits and canteens so we could use them. That's about all
can remember of basic. I thought it was
kind of stupid.
I
NELSON: Tell us about any other training
camps you attended.
HOOPER: Well, in the course of Cadet, I
sent me to Tempe, Arizona
went to
-They
for four months of college. They called it
CTD, College Training Detachment, to improve my skills to be an ofÏïcer, I guess. We
took English, mathematics, physics, and a
lot of physical education (P E.) After four
months of college in Tempe, Arizona, went
back to Santa Ana, California, and took up
Cadet training, radio, navigation, military
bearing, discipline, discipline, discipline.
You got gigs for not having belt buckles
shined, for not having buttons buttoned and
Lord only a number of other things. Then
you had to walk your tour, which was a form
of discipline to condition you to, I guess, for
�ElmerHooper-Page
the battle what you were going to face to
come up.
4
HOOPER: Oh yes. Bloody Hundreds. The
Bloody l00th'Station 139 Four Abotts, England, and 351$ Squadron.
NELSON: Did you ever lose your
passes?
II{ELSON: Okay. Good. What were your
HOOPER: Yes, sir. Yes, I walked a tour of
duty due to demerits on weekends to w¿lk
off the demerits. Didn't get too many trips
into town because they didn't allow us very
many in those days but when we did get into
town we had a good time at the Hollywood
Palladium and all the sights around Hollywood.
NELSON: Did you have any associations
with civilians?
assigned duties?
HOOPER: .I was a tail gunner. I had to
protect the rear.
NELSON: If you there were any transfers to
other units, please give us the details.
HOOPER: I never transferred to any other
unit. When I left after my training in California I went overseas. I stayed in the Hundreds.
IIOOPER: Oh, yeah. Girls. Girls. Later on
as I moved to another base, I had more relations with civilians than I did in Santa Ana. I
want to digress for a minute. When I was in
was going with a girl in
Tempe I met
the college there. We couldn't talk to the
girls during the day so we'd slip notes to the
girls on the chow line to have our girlfriends
meet us in the evenings and weekends. I was
going with a girl I remember who had a sister who lived in London. Her sister was married and had a baby and later on in my career I wound up in England and I went to see
this girl's sister and I visited them several
times frequently in London. That \¡/as one
civilian acquaintance that I made through a
a-I
girlfriend.
NELSON: What was your military unit?
HOOPER: The Eighth. United States Army
Force in the beginning and later on...
NSLSON: Okay. This is the participation in
the conflict. Where did you go after completing your basic training?
HOOPER:'Where did I go?
I\IELSON: In your combat area.
HOOPER: Combat area. We landed ... We
flew a new Bl7 over from Lincoln, Nebraska, the whole crew and we landed in
Valley, Wales. They took the aircraft from
us at Valley, Wales, and went on to an assignment center in Stone, England. From
Stone we were assigned what bomb group,
and Squadron we were going to be in and
that's the only bases or outfits that I was
ever in outside the 100ú which being assigned from Stone, England.
NELSON: What did you think of our
na-
tions war effiorts up to this point?
NELSON: What group were you with?
NELSON: In what group? Do you remem-
HOOPIR: I thought they were great. We
were turning out in great qualities of war
materials. We had a good morale. The ci'
vilian population was behind us and I think
ber the group number?
we were doing real great.
HOOPER: Eighth Air Force
�ElmerHooper-Page
NELSON: Tell us about your experience in
entering your fïrst combat zone.
HOOPER: First combat zone. First mission
for a flyer was to Merseburg, Germany.
NELSON: Oh, God.
5
HOOPER: Well, I thought it was a just war.
I thought we were justifïed in what they
were fighting for. I thought it was sometimes a cruel war in terms of civilian population. The civilians in both England and
Germany suffered considerably. This at
times bothered me. But we had a job to do
so we just went ahead and done it and put
HOOPAR: Merseburg was an oil hnery
station field, synthetic oil. Merseburg to an
Air Force man was a death trap. And the
first mission I went to Merseburg was recalled. We didn"t make it. We didn't get
those things out of your mind.
credit for the mission and the next day they
sent us back to Merseburg and it is a rough
target for any Air Force man.
did you receive in these packets?
NELSON: Did you write any letters home
and did you receive many letters or packages. If so, how often, what type of things
places in the aircraft. Luckily nobody was
ever injured on our aircraft.
HOOPER: Oh, yes, I wrote letters very frequently. I had a girlfriend. I was engaged to
when I left. I received letters from her almost daily. I wrote an average probably of
three or four letters a week to her. My parents wrote me letters. I received letters from
other people I knew in my hometown to
boost my morale. Received packages cookies, candy, marshmallows, fudge. The
sweets, the things we couldn't get in England was what we requested. I can remember
a strange incident. At least I thought was
strange. My volunteer gunner liked anchovies and he was always getting anchovies
from his folks.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change
NELSON: Did most of the other men write
as combat continued?
and receive letters?
HOOPER: You bet it did. I got scared. I got
sometimes depressed. The old saying is
"There's no atheists in foxholes" and I believe that to be very true. I've seen a few
times when I thought they was going to have
to put a gun at my back and march me out to
that airplane to get me back in it to go again.
HOOPER: Yes. Being in the Air Force and
always coming back to a permanent base
and never moving around, we didn't have to
viorry about our mail getting lost. We had
regular and prompt mail delivery of packages and V-mail.
NELSON: What they're asking is casualif you ïvere involved with people who
ties,
had become casualties and how did they occur and how were they treated?
HOOPER: Oh, we were luckY. We never
had any casualties on our aircraft. There
were nine men on the aircraft and nobody
v/as ever wounded. We had plenty of battle
damage.
I
have seen battle damage in my
tail rudder was astronomical and other
NELSON: What did you think of the war
far?
so
IIIELSON: Did you forge close bonds of
friendship with many of your combat companions?
�ElmerHooper-Page
HOOPER: Yes, we had nine men on a
crew. Your life depended on those friends
and you had to work as a team and you were
close to them. We weren't as close to the
offrcers because they were in their own
elique but the enlisted men on the crew, we
all went out together. We all run around to'We
were
gether, went on pass together.
quite close because we depended on one another an we had to.
NELSON: Have you remained in contact
with any of your World War II companions?
HOOPER: Yes. My bombardier is in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I talk to him occasionally on the phone. He has come by mY
house. I was in close contact with my engineer, the top turret gunner, until he died.
Most of my crew is deceased. I think out of
nine, there is four of us left. One, I don't
know where my copilot is. The bombardier
is in Minneapolis. Pilot is in Nevada and I'm
here. So that's the four ofus.
NELSON: Prior to the end of the war were
you aware of any civilian concentration
camps existed,
if
so, please explain how you
learned about them and how much
know like ...
You
HOOPER: I read through army publications, the magazine Stars and Stripes and
newspapers about the interment of the Japanese in Califomia, sent them to Arizona. I
thought at the time it was the thing to do but
then I was far away from home and I really
never thought too much about it after you
learned about it.
NELSON: What \ryas your highlight occurrence ofyour combat experience?
HOOPER: I
guess
I
-
highlight of what?
NELSON: Well, say experience
6
of Your
combat experience. What was your top experience that you can remember
HOOPER: That's kind
of-I
don't know
whether you should tell these kind of stories
or not. It goes into history. I'll give it to you
anyhow. The last Friday night of the month
the Sergeant's Club had free beer. After
every mission we got a double shot of whiskey. We used to take turns drinking other
crew members whiskey. After a mission you
could wind up, conceivably with 5 double
shots of whiskey. It happened to be my turn
to have the rest of the crew members double
shots so I drank 5 double shots and didn't go
to the mess hall for supper. I'd been on oxygen for 8 or t hours. I went to the Sergeant's
Club and started drinking beer and got
bombed
Snorkeled. out. They quit selling
beer at 11 o'clock at night so I closed the
Sergeants' Club up, went to my barracks. I
was pretty well bombed and went to bed.
They woke me up at I o'clock in the morning to go on a mission. I had had about 2 or
3 hours of sleep and I was still drunk. How I
got to the aircraft and put my guns in it, I
still don't remember. I did eat some fancy
powdered eggs for breakfast, which I don't
remember. Got up over Germany at 25,000
feet or so on oxygen and I got sick. I had to
take my oxygen mask off and throw uP.
Well, knowing there is no air up there,
you're on oxygen and it's pretty rough. So I
throw up in a tin can,- a fuse can. It would
freeze because it was about 30 below zero.
I'd open the window on the side of the aircraft, bang it on the side of the ship to knock
the ice out and then I'd bring it inside and
I'd fill it up again. Well, I did this 3 times.
The third time I got the dry heaves as \rye
call if and I'm sucking the oxygen and there
is not oxygen because it's coming out of my
mask and I'd got my mask off. How I kept
from not passing out and killing myself that
I"ll never know. When I finished the mis-
I
-
�ElmerHooper
-Page7
sion, the whole German army could have
jumped me and I don't think I'd ever seen a
one of them. I was out in the back of that
aircraft, in that tail, and I really wasn't doing
my job protecting the rest of the fellows because I was too sick. I never done that again.
I will never do that again. And that is one of
the highlights of my experience in the Air
was on board ship when the Japanese capitulated after the two atomic bombs had
been dropped. So the war-all wars was
over then. \ffe had a big celebration on
board ship. I remember we landed in Boston, got on a train. I went to Santa Anna,
California.
Force.
NELSON: Please tell us about your military
rank and your decorations, especially your
NELSON: Tell us what you and the other
men did to celebrate America's traditional
family holidays such as Thanksgiving and
campaign decorations.
Christmas.
HOOPER: Well, we didn't do much for
Thanksgiving. The base gave us a good feed
on Thanksgiving. We stayed around the air
base. We had packages from home for
Thanksgiving. Little special extra things and
we would have some ale that we could bring
to the barracks and we'd kind of party
around in the barracks. Christmas-{hey had
a Christmas party for the British children
give them goodies and they would have us
sing Christmas carols. We wold have a
Christmas tree in the Red Cross Club. So we
kind of celebrated the Christmas with the
British children on the base. So actually as
far as having a big party by ourselves, we
didn't have. We shared everything with eve-
-
rybody.
NELSON: When did you return to the
United States after the end of the war?
IIOOPER: I came back to the United States
in August. I believe it was of 1945.
NELSON: What happened when you arrived in the United States?
HOOPAR: Ah,I might say I came home on
a Kaiser liberty ship with air crew and
ground crew members. And why I
- It took
us about l0 days, I think, to get over here. I
I
achieved Staff Sergeant, had
the European Victory medal. I had the European Theater medal. I had the Air Medal
with 5 oak leaf clusters.
HOOPER:
NELSON: How many campaigns were you
in?
HOOPER: Just one, the European.
NELSON: Then we returned to civilian.
How did you get along with the men with
whom you had the greatest contact?
HOOPER: Fine. Fine
NELSON: Were there any things you would
do differently if you had to do them again?
HOOPER: (Hesitation). No
I don't believe
so.
NELSON: What was the most diffrcult
thing you had to do during your military
service?
HOOPER: I guess really it was getting up
every morning, get in that aircraft and go
again. I think that was the hardest thing I
did. I didn't mind leaving home. I was
young and eager to experience but, man,
getting back in the aircraft every morning,
was really rough.
�Page 8
Elmer Hooper
NELSON: Is there anyone thing that stand
out as your most successful achievement in
military service?
wouldn't say that I would be sorry about
it but I would now. I wouldn't want to drop
HOOPER: Just surviving! Surviving was
the big thing. I'd seen too many of them die.
NELSON: When and where were you officially discharged from the service?
NELSON: How did you learn about VE
Day and what was your reaction to it?
HOOPER: I was discharged in Santa Anna,
California, in September of 1945.
HOOPER: VE Day I was on the air base in
NELSON: Which month did you
England. It came over the radio. It came by
It just
word of mouth, by papers and the
spread like wild fire. You heard it and everybody was happy. We didn't have to go
back out and finish our tour. If we had more
mission to do we didn't have to worry about
death any more at that particular time.
-
NELSON: How about VJ Day?
HOOPER: VJ Day was like I said. I was on
a boat coming home and we figured was
coming home from B-17 training to go into
transition to B-29s and hit the Pacific Theatre. We were all just happy as a lark when
we find out Japan had quit; because we
wouldn't have to go to B-29s and do any
more bombing.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the
use of the atomic bomb when it was used
against the Japanese civilians during August
of 1945?
IIOOPER: After reading of the atrocities
that the Japanese military inflicted upon the
servicemen and the civilians, I felt no remorse about it. I'm glad they did.
NELSON: Has your opinion changed after
the last 50 years. If so, how?
No, it hasn't changed. I
it now but at the time when you
wouldn't do
look back in history. It was the thing to do
HOOPER:
so I
one now.
say?
HOOPAR: I think it was around September,
1945.
I\{ELSON: Okay. Did you have any disability rating or pension.
HOOPER: Nope.
I\IELSON: Do you have any opinions or
feelings about the nation's military status or
its policies?
I don't think that
HOOPER: No. I think
- troops into some
they should be sending
countries. Like, for instance, Haiti. I don't
think they should send them to Somali. We
should stay out of Bosnia. I can't see losing
American lives for the good of some politician or ruler trying to rule his people and it's
a struggle for power and I don't believe that
we should be involved in their struggle for
power. We should try and talk peace; we
should and negotiate but I don't believe we
should send American troops over there to
lose their lives for those people.
NELSON: Okay. Do you have any contact
with the Veterans' Administration?
HOOPER: No, sir, I don't
NELSON: Would you like to tell us about
your family's support during your military
life?
�Page 9
Elmer Hooper
IIOOPER: Well, my family suPPort was
great. Like I said, I was engaged. My girlgot a'Dear John"' letters. My
friend was
- very supportive. My father was
mother was
kind of a silent support but I didn't have any
brothers or sisters to support me but other
than that, it was great.
NELSON: In the subsequent years, what
has this suppofr meant to you?
HOOPER: Well, it has been a support that
is hard to really express. They appreciated
what we done. They understood our problems. We were welcomed home. In context
to the Vietnam ftasco, the support was absolutely fantastic. It made you feel good
about what you'd done and you were proud
of what you'd done. Sometimes now days
that's not true.
I{ELSON: This is a question that I would
like to ask. Elmer, what can you tell me
about the 100ft Bomb Group in England?
IIOOPER: 100û Bomb Group came up
with moniker of the "Bloody Hundred".
This was kind of tacked on to the outfìt as a
"hard luck" outfit because of so many casualties we had. The reason why they claimed
we had a high amount of aircraft losses was
because we flew such loose formations. In
talking with other Air Force members from
other groups, they would say "The Bloody
100th" is next to us. We don't have to worry
because the German aircraft box formation
of aircraft is to join together to have a more
concentrated fire from machine guns that are
mounted in your aircraft. If you fly a loose
formation the enemy fighters are able to fly
in and out and it makes an aircraft much
easier to shoot down. Because we were
guilty of such lousy, sloppy formation plans
we lost a lot of aircraft and became the
"Bloody 1001h-. Later that was rectified
through leaders, officers of the group in
tightening up the flying formation. We still
maintained the moniker of "The Bloody
100th". The 100ü did fly 1906 missions. We
were about the 2nd' I think, group in England
with the most casualties. We was.... The
100ù flew only the famous raid to Schweinfurt and Regensburg. They flew on the shuttle missions to Russia.
IIELSON: Can you describe to me one of
your missions that you remember vividly?
HOOPER: Oh, yes. On April 7th,1944 ,we
went to Buchen, Germany. We had a bomb
load of 6 one thousand RBXs, high explosives and the flying time was 8 hours. We
attacked at an oil storage from 15,000 feet.
Cloud cover but we were bombing by radar.
Attacked at 1300 by ME2l09s that lasted for
28 minutes and during this battle I saw one
M8109 ram into the wing of a 817 in C
Squadron. I saw it out my window and the
fort went down in flames. A little while later
another fighter rammed the tail of a Bl7. It
broke off the horizontal stabilizer plus bad
damage to the vertical fin. But believe it or
not the ship came back okay. The takeoff
time was at 9 o'clock. We landed at 1700.
"Bombs Away" was at 1327. flack, or antiaircraft fire was light and accurate. The temperature at that altitude at the time was minus 25 below zero. Our group got... shot
down 6 aircraft and it was the 106ú mission
on my old Skipper Two the name of my aircraft. I'd like to describe one more mission
to you that sticks out as quite memorable
This one was on December 31, 1944. We
went to Hamburg. Germany. The bomb load
was twenty 250-pound general-purpose
bombs. Time of the mission was 8 hours.
The target was an oil plant. Today day was a
big show. The target was visual and flack
was heavy and accurate. After leaving target
we were hit by 30 to 40 fighters mostly
FVf190s. I was damned scared but I did my
job. Claimed one FW, picked up two holes
�ElmerHooper-Page
in the ship quitting time. \Ve lost 12 ships
today and some buddies, 26,000 feet, 46
below zero. Our group got 23 of the 26 enemy aircraft destroyed. I got one destroyed
on our crew and 4 damaged on our crew.
That was quite a day seeing 12 or your
friends go down beside you.
(This was the end ofthe tape).
10
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Elmer Hooper
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Elmer Hooper
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
January 24, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born July 12, 1924 , Elmer Hooper was trained as an Air Force tail gunner. He died February 14, 2008.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
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Text
Elmer L. Wilt
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
For Midway Village and Museum Center
9766 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois
Phone 397 9112
�Elmer L. Wilt:
This is February 18, 1994. My name is
Charles Nelson. I am a volunteer with the
Midway Village & Museum Center in Rockford, Illinois, which is cooperating with the
statewide effort to collect oral histories from
Illinois citizens that participated in the momentous events surrounding World War II.
We are in the office of Midway Village &
Museum Center interviewing Mr. Elmer L.
Wilt: at 310 North Cherry, P. O. Box 273,
Cherry Valley, Illinois. Mr. Wilt was born
October 5, 1924. Mr. Wilt served in the
branch of the United States Armed Forces
during World War II. We are interviewing
him about his experiences in that war.
NELSON: Wilt, would you please start by
introducing yourself. Please give us your
full name, the place and date of birth?
WILT: Well, my name is Elmer L. Wilt. I
was born in Atwood City, Missouri, October
5, 1924.
NELSON: We would also like to have the
names of each of your parents.
WILT: My dad’s name was Charles Elmer
Wilt and my mother’s name was Flora
Green Wilt.
NELSON: Did you have any brothers or
sisters?
WILT: I have two brothers, younger.
NELSON: Are there any details about your
parents or your family that you would like to
give?
Wilt: My great grandfather died of small
pox in a Civil War prison camp in Johnsonville, Virginia. My grand dadnever did see
himhe diedhe was born at __?__ ser-
vice and he died before my granddad came
home. That was before he could get
outand before my granddad.
NELSON: What was life like before the
war, specifically during 1941?
WILT: I was in high school. Then and you
don’t care a whole lot about things but I
know my friend and I had considered we
wanted to get involved. We had considered
either joining the British-American Ambulance Corps in China. You only had to be
16, which is a good thing it didn’t happen
because we would have been Japanese prisoners very young. The other thing we considered was going to Canada to the RAF. At
that time you still had to have two years of
college to get in the Air Force. But anyway,
by the time I got out of high school we were
involved. We graduated in June of ’42 and
we were already involved then so going to
Canada to enlist was out of the question.
NELSON: What thoughts did you have
about the war before United States became
directly involved in the conflict?
WILT: Well, I was positive we were going
to be involved, I guess and beyond that with
the gas rationing and all that, it did curtail
my activities. We were living out in a suburban area and there was no transportation
and I had to have my own car to go to high
school in Rockford. There was no bus service.
NELSON: How did you hear of the December 7th, 1941 bombing of Pearl Harbor
by the Japanese? If so where were you and
what were you doing at the time? What was
your reaction or response to this those
around you?
�WILT: I was at home and I was kind of
shocked. My parents were really concerned
because I was a little over 17. They knew
that we were going to be going because it
was going to be not over in a short time.
That night we met down at the Cozy Inn. All
the guys and girls that used to ride to school
with me sat around talking. We were mostly
just looking at one another wondering what
the next year was going to bring and who
wouldn’t come home from the war because
we all knew that we were going to be involved in the war in some way or another.
NELSON: This next one is on basic training. When and where were you inducted?
WILT: I enlisted at Camp Grant and then I
reportedI was sworn in out there then put
in standby reserves for almost two months
before I was called to active duty. Then I
went to downtown Chicago and five hundred of us got on a train for Sheppard Field,
Texas. Feeling kind of lost, aloneeighteen
years old, among five hundred guys. I didn’t
know a soul. I wished I were home at that
time.
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinions of developed any feelings about what
was taking place in Europe or Asia?
NELSON: What happened after you were
inducted?
WILT: Being idealistic as high student you
know, we knew it was wrong and I guess we
all felt sure that war was going to happen
and it should have happened before that.
WILT: We went thru basic training down
there in the panhandle in February, ate a lot
of dust, march until we got blisters on and
learned how to use a gun.
NELSON: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
NELSON: What did you think of the training?
WILT: Yes.
Wilt: It was very thorough for the time
frame we had and for what they were trying
to do for the massive amount of people they
were putting in the air
NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of
Hitler’s speeches, ideas or actions?
WILT: No.
NELSON: What events led to your entry
into military service? Were you drafted or
did you volunteer?
NELSON: Did anything special happen
there?
WILT: In Texas?
NELSON: Yes.
Wilt: I enlisted because I wanted to be in
the Air Force.
NELSON: Was your response in entering
military service influenced by family and
friends attitudes towards the war, respect for
national security; or other consideration?
WILT: No, strictly on my own.
WILT: No, not that I can think of. I know
we werethe barracks were so crowded, we
had one hundred twenty guys living in barracks basically designed for sixty-five.
NELSON: Tell us about any other training
camps you attended.
�WILT: When we were ready to ship out we
lived in a hangar. We had fifteen hundred
guys under one roof waiting for shipping
orders. That’s how busy the base was. I went
through a lot of training bases in the States
there, college training, and preflight training
in Santa Anna. I jumped in all over the
country.
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or
passes?
WILT: I had one leave before I went over
seas. I had a sick leave when I was in advanced flight training I come down with virus pneumonia. It was just a month before
graduation. I got back to class to go to night
school so I went down and talked to my captain and he said my grades were high
enough and I told him why don’t I have a
sick leave instead and go home. He said it
sounded like a good idea so I bought a round
trip ticket for $21 from Texas and come
home for a week.
NELSON: What was you military rank?
WILT: Eighth Air Force, First Bomber
Group, 612th Squadron.
crew together. But we didn’t know each other. Each one to work as a unit and then they
shipped us overseas via New Foundland and
Ireland. I mean Iceland and then to England.
Finally we got to our base there about seven
miles north of London.
NELSON: What were you assigned to do
after arriving?
WILT: Our first week was kind of indoctrination. We checked out a plane and flew
around the area and then met our commanding officer, the squadron commanding officer and the flight personnel that we would
be involved with.
NELSON: What did you think of the nation’s war effort up to this point?
Wilt: It was very much involved I worked
as a heat treat apprentice that first summer
out of school and I was really doing so much
at Woodward Governor. We had clout because Woodward Governor had a lot of
clout. The wanted something, they got it.
NELSON: If you did not immediately enter
the combat zone, where did you go before
entering combat?
NELSON: What were your assigned duties?
WILT: I was a copilot on a B17.
NELSON: If there were any transfers to
other units please give the details There
probably wasn’t . . .
WILT: When I went to finish my training
and was shipped to England after we had a
week in a base there we did go into combat
and start flying missions.
NELSON: Tell us about you experience of
entering your fist combat zone.
WILT: No. No.
NELSON: Where did you go after completing basic training?
WILT: Well, we went to LasVegas to I
learned to fly B17s. Then we went to a base
training center in Tennessee to get a full
WILT: My first one? At that time they
would train copilots A green copilot went up
with an old experienced crew The experienced copilot was a sportsman He had to go
up with eight guys who didn’t know what
they were doing, on their first mission and
scared witless On our first mission we got
�hit just at bombs away over Cologne and we
lost both one and two We had a devil of a
time getting back to our base. I was a fatalist
because at that time the Eighth Air Force
was losing more people than anybody else
was, you know. All of us expected not to
come home I just put that in my mind and
didn’t worry about it. Then after that the
crew looked at me as a good luck piece because usually you only had one bad mission
and I had mine.
WILT: Something we probably should
have been involved in earlier although we
weren’t ready for it. Might have saved a lot
of innocent peoples’ lives and a lot of damage to England, France and Germany and
the low land countries, Russia but we
weren’t prepared any sooner and it took
something like that to shock the nation into
a massive effort
NELSON: Did you write many letters
home?
NELSON: How many missions did you fly?
WILT: Actually thirty we got credit for. We
went out almost thirty-five times but if you
didn’t drop a bomb on target, it didn’t count.
NELSON: How did your mental attitude
change as combat continued?
WILT: Well, when we first started flying
combat, like I said, we really didn’t expect
to make it through because the losses were
quite heavy. So we were rather nonchalant
about when the flack started coming in the
area, waiting ’til it got close to us before we
put our flack suits on. Well, I’ll never forget
the day we were getting like twenty-five
missions and we thought we were going to
make it. The war was winding down There
was one burst of flack about three miles
ahead and Steve and I bumped heads trying
to grab that flack helmet. We thought we
was going to make it so we weren’t going to
take any chances, you know. The whole
crew became that way. Before that, you
know, put the flack suit on when we got in
close to the area. No, boy, we put the flack
suits on the moment we took off. They
thought we were gonna home.
NELSON: What did you think of the war so
far?
WILT: Yes I did. I wrote probably once a
week or so.
NELSON: Did you receive many letters or
packages and if so, how often? What types
of things did you like to get in packets?
WILT: I never received much. I could get
most of whatever I needed. I was a young
guy withwhen I went out, I would go out
looking for girls or have a few drinks with
the guys. Drink for today or we’ll all be
dead or something like that. That was our
attitude. The only thing I couldn’t get was
film I liked to take pictures and I couldn’t
get the film for that purpose. __?__ sent me
cigarettes once in while if they could get
them The Post Mistress in Cherry Valley,
Mrs. Hyland, she’d get the names and addresses of all the boys in the service in Cherry Valley. She sent them all cookies at least
once a year or more so she must have been
baking all the time. (Laughter).
NELSON: Did most the other men write
and receive letters?
WILT: Yes, We were in a smalljust a pilot, copilot and navigator shared a cabin
room at least by ourselves over there. Steve
was married and Bob was engaged and I had
met a lot of girlfriends in the States at different bases so I wrote to all of them be-
�cause I didn’t know where I was going to be
after the war. I wrote a lot of short letters
and I received quite a few letters and I received quite a few letters. For the guy who
was married why you could tell what his
wife was doing by his face when he was
reading the mail.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of
friendship with many or some of your combat companions?
WILT: Some. Steve, the first pilot and I are
going to a reunion in England this summer.
We get together once in awhile. Last year
we had a reunion in Norfolk He came out
and picked me up and we flew into Chicago
down to Northbrook.
NELSON: That’s good. Have you remained
in contact with any of your World War II
companions?
WILT: Yes.
NELSON: Besides your pilot.
WILT: Oh, yes, the engineer and both turret
gunners. I talked to them. We have another
reunion in Omaha this summer and we expect to see a number of them. The first pilot
worked for United Airlines and he got all
around the country free He has kept in contact with every member of the crew but the
tail gunner. He had never been able to get
ahold of him.
NELSON: What was the highlight occurrence of your combat experience?
WILT: (Long pause). I remember one day
we hadwe got bombed through by our
own squadron and looking up to see those
bombs coming down. They missed me, I
guess. (Laughter). It did hit one plane
thoughknocked the engine off.
NELSON: Tell us what you and the other
men did to celebrate America’s traditional
family holidays such as Thanksgiving and
Christmas
WILT: You mean in the service?
NELSON: Yes, in the service.
WILT: Christmas of ’44 I was in Section K
getting a new plane, going overseas. Steven’s wife was there and we weren’t that
well acquainted yet so I had known some
friends in town because I had been there before. And there was another pilot I had been
trained with so he and I ran around together.
It was really laid back. We were kind of apprehensive. We were separatedJoe and I
were from these in friends in town. We
didn’t know what was going to happen and
we were going into the unknowninto
combat. It was kind of a melancholy time.
The USO, some of the colleges had parties
and dances for us butit was kind of hard
to unwind and loosen up We were all tense
NELSON: When and how did you return to
the United States after the end of the war.
WILT: Just like we went over. We flew
back.
NELSON: What happened when you arrived in the United States?
WILT: Well, we got intolet’s see, Boston. We flew into there, turned the plane
over and spent a night at Miles Standish
Army Base. We got on a train and came
back home for thirty day leave. I was the
only guy home.
NELSON: Please tell us about your military
rank and your decorations especially your
campaign decorations.
�st
WILT: I became a 1 Lieutenant while I
was overseas. I had the Air Medal with six
oak leaf clusters. That’s all with my active
duty.
NELSON: How many campaigns were you
in?
WILT: Just thirty missions. That waswe
were on our way to China. Our Commanding Officer was just made full Colonel. He
was taking the whole group to China. We
got our leave and we were regrouping in
Sioux Falls, South Dakota. We knew something was up because the base kept getting
more and more people returning from England. We couldn’t find out anything going
on. One day we were standing in line to go
to a movie, eleven o’clock in the morning
this major, who was in our barracksI
didn’t know who he was before that time
and he came over the speaker, “They
dropped the bomb, you know”. I can remember we went and got a beer. We were
sitting on the running board of a car and
looked at each other and we knew the war
was over. Who knew what was going to
happen after that but we sat there for about
15 minutes, nobody said a word
NELSON: How did you get along with the
men with whom you had the greatest contact?
WILT: We got along great.
NELSON: Were there things you would do
differently if you could do them once again?
WILT: Probably stay in the service
NELSON: What was the most difficult
thing you had to do during your period of
military service?
WILT: I don’t know When you are 18
you’re pretty pliable. I don’t know if there is
any one thing more than another challenging. I wanted those wings and that commission so I eat whatever they told me to eat,
you know We were all in the same outfit
there
NELSON: Is there anyone thing that stands
out as your most successful achievement in
the military service. Probably your wings
WILT: That was myI figured I had two
things that mean, or three thingsmy
wings, my wife and my kid. That was my
big achievement, you know. There is one
other thing. When it was my turn to take a
green crew out to war, I hoped my crew
wasn’t as screwed up as they were because
we didn’t think we could go the whole doggoned eight hours in the air. They were bugging the heck out of me. Well, then what
was uniqueit didn’t happen to me but on
their 7th mission they got shot down. Five of
them were injured No They didn’t get shot
down, they got shot up. They landed behind
the lines in Germany. Put the boys in the
hospital and they were captured. Three days
later they escaped and their story is rather
amazing. They wound up driving across the
lines in one of Goring’s personal cars.
That’s when Patton was on the way to Berlin
Get out of my way __?__. They drove that
car direct to Paris
NELSON: How did you learn about VE
Day and what was your reaction to it?
WILT: I hadLet’s see, VE Day Well, I
guess we were in line down at the mess hall
or something and I knew it was getting close
I had come down with dysentery so I
couldn’t move around much. We hadAfter
every mission we got a two ounce slug of
medicinal rye. We put that in a bottle. We
were going celebrate when we got our 35th
�mission in. I had this dysentery and the war
was over and I watched these guys drink
every dog gone bottle and never saved me a
drop.
NELSON: I asked you about VJ Day. What
was your opinion of the use of the atomic
bomb when it was used against Japanese
civilians in August of 1945?
WILT: I think it was well put to use and
probably saved a million Japanese lives and
probably a half million or two hundred thousand American and Allied lives.
NELSON: Has that opinion changed over
the last fifty years?
WILT: No. It has been reinforced.
NELSON: When and where were you officially discharged from the service?
down to Grenada there was some of these
general that got left out. Everybody wanted
to get in on the act so they had thing split up
more than they should have been instead of
having one supreme commander and this
was because there isn’t enough action and
their jealousy. They want the glory, you
know. Like in Iran over there or Iraq, they
want the glory or the Desert Shield of being
involved in becoming a hero because well
it’s like even back in the Indian wars. If you
don’t be in combat well you’re not going to
get the top promotion
NELSON: Do you have any contact with
the Veteran’s Administration?
WILT: No, only when getting my GI Insurance.
NELSON: What is your opinion of the Veterans’ Administration if you have had any
contact with them?
WILT: Dayton, Ohio.
NELSON: When?
WILT: Other than that I have not had any
contact with them? As far as I know they’re
all right.
WILT: That was in
NELSON: Never gone to a VA Hospital?
NELSON: Approximately.
WILT: No.
WILT: Well my terminal leave was up the
5th of December of 1945.
NELSON: Do you have any disability rating or pension?
WILT: No.
NELSON: Do you have any opinions or
feeling about our Nation’s military status or
its policies?
WILT: I think some of the generals that
chiefs have tried to create little __?__ and
they’re overlapping like when they went
NELSON: Or had medical services?
WILT: No, never had occasion to.
NELSON: Would you like to tell us about
how your family supported you during your
military life?
WILT: One thing when I enlisted I thought
my Dad was on cloud nine because he liked
the Air Force and wished he could have
been in. When I went out there to take the
test, he took the day off. He was going to sit
there with me and they said “No, you can’t”
�I’ll never forgot that day. He was so proud
he was walking on air. He couldn’t have
been any happier unless he was in there. He
reallywhen I got my commission he was
on cloud nine, he was so proud of me. My
mother, of course, she was turned the other
way around. She wanted me home and everything else.
NELSON: Over the subsequent years, what
has this support meant to you?
WILT: Well, it was a feeling of security, I
guess and continuity. Growing up all my life
except for a few years in a small town And
I,our family has always been involved in
serving their country all the way back to the
Revolutionary War, the Civil War, SpanishAmerican War. My son was in Vietnam. He
was in combat. Both my brothersone was
in the Korean War. The other was in the Navy, World War II, you know. So it’s a tradition. When the world has something come
you go in and serve your country
NELSON: That’s good. Well, thanks a lot.
That was great.
WILT: Okay.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Elmer L. Wilt
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Elmer L. Wilt
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
18-Feb-94
Description
An account of the resource
Born October 5, 1924, Elmer L. Wilt enlisted in 1942 as an Army Air Force pilot. He was discharged December 5, 1945. He died August 4, 2015.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Main Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts and neighborhoods of North Main Street and South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois stretching from Whitman Street at the north, to Montague Street at the south.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1900-1930
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Entrance to Orpheum Theatre, Rockford, Ill.
Description
An account of the resource
Elegant outside view sporting an ad sign on the right dated November 9, 1908.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1908
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109(I).594
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Main Street
Midway Village Museum
Orpheum Theatre
Rockford Illinois
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Text
Ernest Stolp, Jr.
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
For Midway Village and Museum Center
6911 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
�Ernest Stolp, Jr.
Today is the 30th, __?__, 1994. My name is Charles
Nelson and I am a volunteer with the Midway Village
in Rockford, Illinois, which is cooperating with the
statewide effort to collect oral histories from Illinois
citizens that participated in the momentous events surrounding World War II. We are in the office of Midway Village interviewing Mr. Ernest E. Stolp, Jr. who
lives at 1212 Comanche Drive, Rockford, Illinois,
61107. Mr. Stolp served in a branch of the United
States Armed Forces during World War II. We are
interviewing him about his experiences in that war.
Ernie, please give us your full name, the place and date
of birth. We would also like to have the names of each
of your parents.
STOLP: My name is Ernest E. Stolp, Jr. I live at 1212
Comanche Drive in Rockford, Illinois, 61107. I was
born in Chicago, Illinois, April 18, 1921. My father’s
name is Ernest E. Stolp; Sr. My mother’s name is Dorothy K. Stolp.
NELSON: Did you have any brothers or sisters?
STOLP: I have one brother and one sister.
NELSON: Are there any details about your parents
and or your family that you would like to give?
STOLP: I don't think so.
NELSON: Okay. What was life like before the war
and specifically during 1941?
STOLP: In 1941, I worked for __?__ Electric in Genoa, Illinois as a multi spindle drill operator and set up
man.
NELSON: What thoughts did you have about the war
before the United States became directly involved in
the conflict?
STOLP: Not much. We knew that the war in Europe
was going on but I didn't pay much to it, being kids.
NELSON: How did you hear about the December 7th,
1941, bombing of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese?
STOLP: Like a lot of other fellows, we said, "We better enlist now and get it over with".
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or developed any feeling about what had been taking place
in Europe or Asia?
STOLP: No.
NELSON: Did you recall reading newspaper accounts
of German aggression in Europe?
STOLP: Yes.
NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of Hitler's
speeches, ideas or actions?
STOLP: Not really; not any definite ideas.
NELSON: What events led to your entering military
service? Were you already in service, drafted or did
you volunteer?
STOLP: Well, I volunteered for the United States Army Air Corp and the reason for it being I didn't like the
idea of the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor.
NELSON: Okay. This goes into basic training. When
and where were you inducted?
STOLP: I was inducted in Wausau, Wisconsin. My
basic training was done at Camp Grant, Illinois.
Whereas I already had National Guard training, I was
moved on to Enid, Oklahoma, right about 30 days after
being stationed out here at Camp Grant, Illinois.
NELSON: Do you have any special memories of this
event?
STOLP: Just that it was colder than heck.
NELSON: How old were you?
STOLP: I've got a tape of that event. I was 21 years
old at the time.
NELSON: What happened after you were inducted?
STOLP: I was in a parade in the City of DeKalb, Illinois National Guard. It was announced over a loud
speaker that we had gone to war with the Japanese.
NELSON: What was your reaction and response by
those around you?
STOLP: We were put on a troop train and shipped to
Camp Grant, Illinois where we were in "tent city" for
our basic training.
NELSON: What were you trained to do?
�STOLP: At that time we were trained to march with a
gun that was a broomstick.
NELSON: When and where were you sent overseas
and how did you get there?
NELSON: What did you think of the training?
STOLP: I was sent overseas in 1944 out of Stoughton.
California, on a Liberty Ship, arriving in Mindanao
Island which is in New Guinea, I should say, about 30
days later.
STOLP: I didn't think much of it at that time.
NELSON: Did anything special happen there?
STOLP: No.
NELSON: Tell us about any other training camps you
attended.
STOLP: Okay. I moved from there to Enid, Oklahoma
with the Air Corp and we went into our training mode
of mechanical engineering, such as repairing and servicing airplanes of the B20.. Wait a minute (on the
PT13 which is a primary basic trainer for the Air Corp.
NELSON: Okay. What were you assigned to do after
arriving?
STOLP: After arriving we were first assigned as part
of an aircrew member replacing some of the fellows
that were lost or gone home.
NELSON: What did you think of the Nation's war
effort up to this point?
STOLP: Up to the point of my starting out, you mean?
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or passes?
NELSON: Where you were at the time.
STOLP: Oh, yes.
STOLP: I thought it was real good. For instance, our
squadron got a citation out there for a raid we put on
over enemy shipping where if we hadn't we would
have lost a whole bunch of people. I don't know
whether they want me to read that or not.
NELSON: If so, how did you use them?
STOLP: Well, I used some of them to go see the girlfriend I had in Oklahoma City. Others I used to come
home to see my parents.
NELSON: Okay. What do you recall about this period
about the places you were stationed, the friends you
made, your association with civilians?
STOLP: Well, I think the association with civilians
was pretty good. The places we stayed were barracks
with the old potbelly stove in the middle of them
which was not too bad. Most all the weather we had in
Enid. If you woke up in the morning and your feetif
your shoes were frozen to the floor, you knew it was
cold.
NELSON: At this time, what were your duties?
STOLP: At that time I was a Crew Chief on the line
on the B13(?) airplanes.
NELSON: Okay. Where did you go after completing
your basic military training?
STOLP: From there to more training on airplane engines at Randolph Field, Texas. From there to Winfield, Kansas, [Storther?] Air Base where I stayed for
some time. Then went from there to, let me see, Eagle
Pass, Texas, and from there to Del Rio, Texas where I
joined the B26 organization.
NELSON: Well, we'll get into that. Tell us about your
experiences of entering your first combat zone.
STOLP: Scare the "living daylights" out of me.
(Laughter). We no more than got off the ship, we got
on land when the air raid sirens went off. We didn't
have foxholes or anything dug yet. We were just setting up our tent and they said an air raid was coming so
I wound up hiding in a big old carryall, a steel-sided
carryall they used to haul dirt in. I stayed there and I
had __?__ cup of water until the warning came that it
was over with.
NELSON: Can you list for us in order of occurrence
all subsequent combat actions in which you were involved?
STOLP: Well, this is 50 some years ago, Charlie.
(Laughter). The biggest one that stands out, of course,
is a raid on the shipping out there. The other ones were
just bombing and photographing the enemies.
NELSON: Did you tell us what island you were on?
STOLP: Yes. On Mindanao in New Guinea from there
to Luzon in the Philippines. From there to __?__ which
is off the tip of Japan. Actually the __?__ of Japan.
Then from there to Nagasaki, then Japan itself.
�NELSON: Do you remember how many missions you
were on?
NELSON: What did most of the other men write or
receive letters?
STOLP: No.
STOLP: Yes, we had a regular call where some of the
guys would get a stack of letters from back home that
were 10 to 13 letters in a stack.
NELSON: What airplane did you
STOLP: B-25. Mitchell, B25, Model D.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of friendship
with many or some of your combat companions?
NELSON: What was your job on the B25?
STOLP: No.
STOLP: I was Top Turret Gunner and Crew Chief.
NELSON: Can you tell us in full detail, if possible,
the approximate number and types of casualties, how
they occurred and how they were treated?
STOLP: Oh, boy, that’s hard.
NELSON: Did you have any casualties on your airplane?
STOLP: Yes, we did. Had a couple fellows that were
shotI can’t say casualties because they were wounded and survived, patched up and back to work again.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change as combat
continued?
STOLP: No.
NELSON: Have you remained in contact with any of
your World War II companions?
STOLP: No. I’ve lost track of them.
NELSON: Did you ever have to help retrieve a
wounded buddy from the battlefield in combat?
STOLP: No. No.
NELSON: Except the flying crew.
STOLP: Except the flying crew. As long as we got
back on land where the Medics took care of them right
quick like.
NELSON: What was the highlight occurrence of your
combat experience and any other experiences you can
remember?
NELSON: What did you think of the war so far?
STOLP: I didn’t like it but I knew it had to be done. It
was something we had to do to get things back the way
they should be.
NELSON: Did you write many letters home?
STOLP: Yes I wrote at least once a week or maybe
once a month.
NELSON: Did you receive many letters and/or packets, if so, how often?
STOLP: No, I didn’t. I received quite a few letters but
not many packets.
STOLP: The highlight one is this one right here. I
know this is quite worn to put on tape.
NELSON: Can you briefly tell us what it is?
STOLP: Yes. It was the 17th Reconnaissance Squadron B of the 77th Reconnaissance Group, on December
26, 1944, it became imperative to launch all available
aircraft on Mindanao The task force from the Japanese
consisting of a heavy cruiser, 1 light cruiser and 6 destroyers approaching an American Air Base on Mindanao. If we hadn’t bombed them out, they would have
taken us out for sure and captured the whole island.
NELSON: Were there any casualties lost?
NELSON: If you did receive packets, what were they
like?
STOLP: One was wrecked on take-off. One was shot
down. Two had to be ditched and one was reported
missing. That was out of 13 airplanes.
STOLP: Well, they were usually stuffs. Of course,
being out in the South Pacific food stuffsthe cookies
were fine. They were kind of crumbly by the time they
got to us.
NELSON: Are there any other things you recall about
that mission?
�STOLP: No. Except it was a heck of a go around. We
came back in, reloaded, refueled and took off again as
fast as we could.
NELSON: Okay. Tell us what you and the other men
did to celebrate America’s traditional holidays such as
Thanksgiving and Christmas?
STOLP: Yeah, I’d keep track of them. Most all of our
crewwe were a replacement crew. We were replacing guys that put there time in and they were ready to
go home. So most all of our crew was assembled from
whom we didn’t go overseas with.
STOLP: You mean during wartime?
NELSON: What was your most difficult you had to do
during your period of military service?
NELSON: Yes, during your time in the service.
STOLP: Most difficult? KP (Kitchen police).
STOLP: Well we didn’t.
NELSON: Is there any one thing that stands out as
your most successful achievement in the military service?
NELSON: When and how did you return to the United
States at the end of the war?
STOLP: No. Just getting us there and back again.
STOLP: I came back to Fort Lewis in Washington
state by boat, on the US Aircraft __?__.
NELSON: What happened you arrived in the United
States?
STOLP: We were quite well welcomed home. We
went to Fort Lewis and there we staid for about a
week, saw a little bit there then transported back to
Camp Grant, Illinois and I got out at Camp Grant, Illinois.
NELSON: Please tell us about your military rank and
your decorations especially your campaign decorations.
STOLP: Okay, I wasmy rank was a Staff Sergeant
and campaign decoration, 3 bronze stars, Philippine
Liberation. I have the Asiatic Pacific Liberation medal
and, of course, the ruptured duck (discharge decoration) good conduct medal and flight engineers wings.
NELSON: How many missions were you on?
STOLP: About 35 as I remember.
NELSON: Coming home alive. How did you learn
about VE Day and what was your reaction to that?
STOLP: We celebrated that on Iwo Jima by using our
__?__ flare pistols and firing our __?__ flares into the
air (inaudible, laughter).
NELSON: How did you learn about VJ Day and what
was your reaction to it?
STOLP: VJ Day was a bigger thing for us because the
surrendered airplanes brought the Japanese people to
Iwo Jima in white airplanes. We were all up on the
ramp to see that thing come in.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the use of the
atomic bomb when it was used against Japanese civilians in August of 1945?
STOLP: We didn’t know about it until we got to Japan and then we were told about how we flew over it
because we were mapping Japan. We didn’t know a
heck of a whole lot about it. We knew it stopped the
war.
NELSON: Now this goes into the return to civilian
life. How did you get along with men with whom you
had the greatest contact?
NELSON: Did you have an opinion of it at that time?
STOLP: You mean civilians?
NELSON: So your opinion is about the same now as it
was then?
NELSON: I imagine the people you were with in the
service.
STOLP: In service. Oh I got along fine.
NELSON: Are there things you would do differently
if you could do them again?
STOLP: No.
STOLP: Oh, yeah.
NELSON: It hasn’t changed? When and where were
you officially from service?
�STOLP: Discharged from service, December 13,
1945, at Camp Grant, Illinois.
STOLP: No.
STOLP: Well, I found thoseyou asked me about
service stripes and stuff. I had one Service Stripe, one
Overseas Service Bar, American Campaign medal, the
Asiatic Pacific Theater ribbon with four bronze battle
stars, Philippine Liberation ribbon with one bronze
battle star, Good Conduct medal and the World War I
medal. Why that World War II don’t know.
NELSON: Do you have any opinions or theories about
the nation’s military status or its policies?
NELSON: Is there anything else you would like to add
to this interview?
STOLP: No, I’m too old to worry about it.
STOLP: No, I don’t think so Charlie.
NELSON: Do you have any contact with the Veterans’ Administration?
NELSON: Thank you very much Ernie. That was a
good one.
STOLP: Yeah, I did through the Veterans’ Administration I did get my medicalArmy Medical Records
we couldn’t get before. They were through a fire some
place as you can see by this. The Illinois Veterans’
Assistance here in Rockford helped me get those.
STOLP: You’re welcome.
NELSON: Do you have any disability rating or pension?
NELSON: What is your opinion of the Veterans’ Administration at this time?
STOLP: I think it’s good.
NELSON: Have you ever gone to a VA Hospital for
medical services?
STOLP: I have but only for a visit.
NELSON: So you haven’t received medical care.
STOLP: No.
NELSON: Would you like to tell us about how your
family supported during your military life?
STOLP: Very well. My mother and my dad were both
very supportive, of course. They followed us around
made sure while we were in the states that wemy
brother and I both were in. He was in the paratroops.
They made sure we knew what we were up against as
much as they could.
NELSON: Over the subsequent years what has this
support meant to you?
STOLP: Well, I think it was good training so we could
do the same for our own family after we got married.
NELSON: Is there anything you would like to add to
this interview?
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Ernest S. Stolp, Jr.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ernest S. Stolp, Jr.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born April 18, 1921, Ernest S. Stolp joined the Army Air force in 1942 and was discharged Dec. 13, 1945. He died November 19, 2006.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
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PDF Text
Text
Everett Tuttle
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
For Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
www.midwayvillage.com
Volunteer Editor: Martha Byrnes 11/14/18
�Everett Tuttle
Today is July 27, 1994. My name is Charles
Nelson and I am a volunteer at the Midway
Village and Museum Center in Rockford,
Illinois, which is cooperating with the
statewide effort to collect oral histories from
Illinois persons that participated in the momentous events of World War II. We are in
the office of Midway Village interviewing
Everett Tuttle. Mr. Tuttle served in a branch
of the United States Armed Forces during
World War II. We are interviewing him
about his experiences in that War.
Everett, would you please start by introducing yourself to us? Please give us your full
name, place and date of birth. We would also like to have the names of each one of
your parents.
TUTTLE: Everett Tuttle. I was born in
Grand Forks, North Dakota, 1923. My father
and mother were Clarence and Anna Tuttle.
NELSON: Did you have any brothers and
sisters?
NELSON: Okay. What thoughts did you
have about the War before the United States
became directly involved in the conflict?
TUTTLE: Well, I felt it was a matter of
time even though I was only 18 years old
because of Hitler’s speeches and all the radio talks and the news on the movies when
we went in. We always saw that and we felt
that it was a matter of time.
NELSON: How did you hear of the December 7th, 1941 bombing of Pearl Harbor
by the Japanese?
TUTTLE: I was attending Teacher’s College. I was ridiculing or aggravating a guy
that had a gas station. As I walked across the
street, he hollered at me I wouldn’t be here
very long. The Japs just bombed Pearl Harbor. So that’s how I heard about it.
NELSON: What was your reaction and response of those around you?
TUTTLE: I had no brothers or sisters.
TUTTLE: Well, we wanted to sign up right
away.
NELSON: Okay. Are there any details
about your parents and or your family that
you would like to give?
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or developed any feelings about what
had been taking place in Europe or Asia?
TUTTLE: No, they were just common rural people.
TUTTLE: Just that I thought that it would
probably have to be stopped so they couldn’t
begin to come over to this country. Our first
line of thought was that we had to defend
our homeland and our fathers and mothers
and our neighbors.
NELSON: Okay. What was life like for you
before the War and especially during 1941?
TUTTLE: Well we just came out of the
depression and the drought up there in North
Dakota. Getting a job was a rarity. Life was
really struggling before we went into the
War.
NELSON: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
TUTTLE: Yes, I had.
�NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of
Hitler’s speeches, ideas or actions?
TUTTLE: Very afraid
NELSON: How old were you?
TUTTLE: What I saw on theheard on
the radio. We would all listen to it even
though we could hardly understand it. And
then on the movie news they would show
film and hear his speeches and see the
marching of the people and organization of
their military.
NELSON: What events led to your entry
into military service? Were you already in
service, drafted or did you volunteer?
TUTTLE: We were going to volunteer and
they didn’t have enough guns or places for
us. They asked us to stay until we could be
drafted because it would just cause confusion. So I waited until I was drafted.
NELSON: Was your response to entering
military service influenced by family and
friends’ attitudes toward the War and threats
to national security or any other consideration?
TUTTLE: The threat to national security.
TUTTLE: I was 20 years old.
NELSON: What happened after you were
inducted? Where were you sent?
TUTTLE: Well, with basic training I was
in Buckley Field, Colorado. I did basic there
and they lost my records. Then I went to [inaudible] Mississippi for engineering and I
didn't like that. I couldn’t qualify so then I
went to Laredo, Texas, to gunnery school
which I wanted -- machine gun training.
NELSON: What did you think of that training?
TUTTLE: I enjoyed the machine gun trainingenjoyed that.
NELSON: Did anything special happen
there that you can remember?
TUTTLE: Nothing special. Just a routine.
The hardship of Laredo, Texas, in June, July
and August. (Laughter).
NELSON: Okay. Now let’s go to the basic
training. When and where were you inducted?
NELSON: Very Hot! Tell us about any other training camps you attended.
TUTTLE: I was inducted into Fort Snelling, Minnesota. And I took my basic training at Buckley Field, Colorado, outside of
Denver.
TUTTLE: Well, we formed our crew in
Lincoln, Nebraska. We went on to training
in Casper, Wyoming, for overseas duty as a
crew.
NELSON: Do you have any special memories of this event?
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or
passes anytime?
TUTTLE: No, it’s just a whole new life
being in the military. (Laughter).
TUTTLE: I had one emergency leave and I
think I had a 30 day furlough after I came
back from the European Theater when Japan
had not surrendered yet.
NELSON: (inaudible)
�NELSON: What do you recall of this period
about the places that you were stationed, the
friends you made and your association with
civilians?
NELSON: As you arrived, what were you
assigned to do when you first got to your
overseas base?
TUTTLE: Most of the time the relationship
was good. Mississippi was not too good because they had so many service men down
there and they could not take too well to the
Army or the Air Force. They did like the
Navy down there.
TUTTLE: The main thing we did waswe
had to do work around the compound there
with Italian civilians. There was snow over
the mud[we were] wading [in] the mud
almost knee deep. Then when it dried up a
little we just immediately started flying
combat right off the bat.
NELSON: Kind of took over down there,
didn’t they?
NELSON: So you didn’t have any training
missions over there at all?
TUTTLE: Yeah. It was understandable.
NELSON: Your military unit was the Air
Force?
TUTTLE: No justthe only training mission we had was a little gunnery mission
over the Adriatic to see if we could hit
something.
TUTTLE: Army Air Force.
NELSON: What did you think of our nation’s War efforts up to this time?
NELSON: What were your assigned duties?
TUTTLE: Our nation’s what?
TUTTLE: My duties wereI was a nose
clerk under the [inaudible] and I also was an
assistant engineer. I helped on take-off,
sometimes on landings. [Made] sure everything was precise.
NELSON: What did you think of our nation’s war efforts up to this time.
NELSON: Where did you go after completing your basic military training in the United
States? Where did they ship you?
TUTTLE: We picked up our new plane, a
bomber B-24, in Topeka, Kansas. We went
from there [to the airfield in] Newfoundland.
We were in a blizzard there and laid over.
Then we went to the Azore Islands and then
from there we went into the Marrakesh,
North Africa, then into Tunis, North Africa,
and then we were bogged down with mud in
Italy so we couldn’t land for a few days.
Then we went to [inaudible] Italy to the [inaudible].
TUTTLE: I thought it was all out and very
much backed by all the citizens of the United States. It was just wonderful the way they
sacrificed and did everything into production and sacrificed to help this.
NELSON: Tell us about your experience of
entering the first combat zone or your first
mission.
TUTTLE: First mission was one that you
didn’t want. It was in Vienna, Austria. I had
the misfortune of running or going over it
twice. The casualties were very high and the
Russians got over 500 [inaudible] out of
there. The other missions were really terrible. We were in Linz, Austria. The Benzol
[oil] plants there. Herman Goering’s tank
�factories -- and they had a lot of the yellownosed fighter planes there up in Germany.
TUTTLE: No. No. No Sunday school picnicjob that had to be done.
NELSON: Okay. I think you covered the
next question pretty well. Taking these one
at a time, first tell us in full detail, if possible, about the approximate number and
types of casualties, how they occurred and
how they were treated and if you had any
[inaudible].
NELSON: Did you write many letters home
and receive letters?
TUTTLE: We were very fortunate. We returned back with over 200 holes in our ship
but nobody was hit and we received a fourday pass in Rome for going through Vienna
twice and Linz twice plus the other missions. The major casualties was on the combat missions that the guys getting hit, their
airplanes blowing up and the parachutes
coming out on fire and the planes going
down. The flak was so heavy sometimes you
couldn’t see if the other five or seven planes
got through it or not because it was so heavy
from the smoke.
TUTTLE: I only wrote on occasions. I
never received many letters. I didn’t have
any family. My mother wrote me and I think
one aunt did. I had no relatives.
NELSON: So, you didn’t get any packages?
TUTTLE: No, I didn’t get any packages
overseas. They would never get there.
NELSON: How about the other men? Did
they receive letters and send letters?
TUTTLE: A lot of the guys [who] were engaged to their girlfriends and sweethearts
got letters. Most of us gunners weren’t engaged or anything so we got occasionally
letters, usually a “Dear John.”
NELSON: What altitude did you fly?
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds with
many or some of your combat companions?
TUTTLE: We flew at about 25 to 27,000
feet.
TUTTLE: Every [year], since 1990, we’ve
gone to the 461st Bomb Group reunion. The
pilot, the co-pilot, the engineer gunner, the
radial gunner the ball gunner, myself, and
the top turret gunner have been to these conventions and we do see each other once a
year.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change
as combat continued?
TUTTLE: No, it was just another job. If
you made it, you made it. If you didn’t, you
didn’t. Your family got $10,000 bucks.
NELSON: What did you think of the War
so far?
NELSON: Were you ever involved in retrieving a wounded buddy or that sort of
thing?
TUTTLE: No.
TUTTLE: (Laughter) Wasn’t enthusiastic
about it.
NELSON: Wasn’t like going to Sunday
school?
NELSON: You never got involved in liberating prison camps?
TUTTLE: No, we didn’t.
�NELSON: What was the highlight occurrence of your combat experience or any other experiences you can remember? What
stands out in your mind?
TUTTLE: It just seems like we drew the
tough missions and I’m sure every guy in
combat felt the same way. But it was routine
combat and just something we went to bed a
little early and got a good night’s rest because you may have the luck if you went
down, to be able to walk back, but not too
many did.
NELSON: What time did you have to get
up in the morning when you flew?
TUTTLE: They got us up at 2 o’clock in
the morning. Then they fed us, then they
briefed us, then they took us down to draw
our gear and ammo, and then we loaded the
plane. Then they leveledthey used a slide
rule where the weight all was and we took
off probablywe probably didn’t take off
until about 7 o’clock, so that took about 4 to
5 hours.
NELSON: You mentioned briefing. What
was briefing about?
TUTTLE: Briefing was about where you
were going, where to expect the flak, what
you were probably going to run into, and
then alternate routes where you would bomb
alternate targets. Then you would plan if you
went down, where to head for -- primarily
Yugoslavia, or head near Switzerland to try
to avoid being captured. We had an incident
that so many civilians were working around
[inaudible].
NELSON: Tell us what you and the other
men did to celebrate America’s traditional
family holidays such as Thanksgiving and
Christmas.
TUTTLE: Usually you just lined up and
went to chow and got a little something extra.
NELSON: When and how did you return to
the U.S. at the end of the War?
TUTTLE: At the end of the War we, as
usual, drew some detail, and we had to dismantle the area that our bomb group was in,
and we flew a weather ship back. So we had
it heavily loaded with instruments. Our pilot
was a “number one” pilot and our copilotAny time the company commander
flew a weather mission or a mission, he’d
take our pilot as a copilot. So we felt pretty
good. He’d take half the crew--the engineer,
the navigator and the radio man--but they
really didn’t need a gunner when they flew
that weather because it was usually dark. It’s
a good feeling with a crew of that quality.
NELSON: Now when you arrived in the
United States, what happened?
TUTTLE: When we finally flew through
all the storms back and landed we got our
traditional big steak and a quart of milk.
Where we landed there was a lot of prisoners of the War -- Germans. They were glaring at us and we were glaring at them.
NELSON: What town was that?
TUTTLE: I think it was somewhere in
Georgia. I think we landed in Georgia first
and then went down to Florida, I think. Then
we went on a 30-day furlough.
NELSON: Tell us about your military rank
and your decorations, especially your campaign decorations.
TUTTLE: Well, I went in as a private,
same as everybody else, but I came out as a
Staff Sergeant. I can’t recallI know I had
�the air medal and cluster and we had the European Ribbon. We had the North African
ribbon. I got the good conduct medal. And
through training, of course, I got Sharp
Shooters. There’s some other medal in there
that I got but I didn’t look at my discharge
before I came out.
NELSON: You flew how many missions?
TUTTLE: We had 19 credited missions.
We had some that were scratched. We went
up to hit the jet fields. I saw the first German
jet up over Czechoslovakia. It was something to see. We were trying to hit their.
NELSON [interrupting]: Do you remember
about whether that was in April, 1945?
TUTTLE: I think so, because they didn’t
have fuel so we went up there and this fellow that every so oftenOne squad out of
766th Bomb Squadron, 766th--one of those
guys would have to lead. So to make him
mean we flew around and around up in
Czechoslovakia and the fields were so camouflaged we couldn’t bomb them but a
German jet came up and we had those flak
fighter pilots that were flying escorts. They
jumped on him and he left them standing
still. They just winged over and went back
to Greece. Our seven planes just circled
around until finally my pilot told them they
had enough gas to get back, “We better get
back.”
NELSON: Did you see any other planes?
TUTTLE: Oh, yeah. I saw the British.
They were terrible. They set a course and
they’d just fly right through italmost like
flying through the formation. I had a chance
to shoot down a JU88 but it looked like a
bullfighter of the English. I hesitated shooting because I didn’t want to shoot him down
but I had him in my sights. I should have
shot him. I caught hell for not shooting him
down, you know.
NELSON: The reason I mention that is because I lost my co-pilot. He was flying another crew over Czechoslovakia. They got
hit by ME-210s. I was just wondering if
maybe our group flew on the same mission
that you were on?
TUTTLE: It is very possible, because they
were trying to hit those jet fields up there
where they had them stored. When they took
off, they just left the B51s like they were
just standing still. It was a whole new ball
game.
NELSON: Oh yes, yes, it certainly was.
Now this is in reference to your return to
civilian life. How did you get along with the
men with whom you had the greatest contact? That was the people you were serving
[with]?
TUTTLE: We had wonderful officers and
men. We were close, very close as a combat
crew. I don’t think our pilot and copilot
would even open a candy bar without offering half of it. It was the kind of relationship
we had.
NELSON: Were there things you would do
differently if you could do them once again?
TUTTLE: I don’t think so, because it’s a
job that men of our time should do.
NELSON: What was the most difficult
thing you had to do during your period of
military service?
TUTTLE: KP [Laughter]. I hated K.P. [KP
is short for kitchen police.]
�NELSON: A lot of them say their first mission.
TUTTLE: Yes, [laughter] we did.
NELSON: How about VJ Day?
TUTTLE: Yeah, the first mission would
be, and the training, or it was KP. The first
mission was soyou didn’t know what to
expect. You had no idea, no idea what was
happening.
NELSON: Is there anything that stands out
in your mind as [your] most successful
achievement in military service?
TUTTLE: [Hesitation].
NELSON: Getting your wings?
TUTTLE: Oh, I think getting my wings
was mya personal achievement that I felt
good about because you had to take that machine gun apart and put it together blindfolded. You had to qualify to hit these moving targets and you had to hit these sleeves
that werethat had the [inaudible] parts.
NELSON: Had to shoot the sleeve and not
the
TUTTLE: Not the [inaudible]. You see,
your bullets were all color-coded so they
counted your hits. If you had yellow bullets
or if you had blue or whatever. So your hits
were counted.
NELSON: How did you learn of VE Day
and what was your reaction to it?
TUTTLE: We were in Tampa, Florida, and
[I was with] a new-found buddy, because the
crews were not being reformed for Europe.
We were in a nightclub when we heard
about it. So we were in Tampa, Florida, celebrating it.
NELSON: Celebrating a little bit, I imagine.
TUTTLE: Now wait a minute. I’m sorry,
that was VJ Day.
NELSON: How about VE Day?
TUTTLE: VE Day. I’m sorry. VE Day we
were in Europe and we kept running up to
the command post there to find out if there
was any information yet, because the Russians were really going and then Patton…
We couldn’t bomb because Patton, you never knew where he was! The Russians we
knew where they were, because they were
burning everything. We felt that VE Day we
were over there in our squadron area.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the
use of the atomic bomb when it was used
against the Japanese civilians in August of
1945?
TUTTLE: I felt great about it, to tell you
the truth. They bombed Pearl Harbor without justification. They wouldn’t even have
the War if they had stayed in Japan. I feel if
they had it, they would have used it. No
doubt Hitler would have used it. It was a
matter who did it [first]. I’ve got to commend Harry Truman for dropping that
bomb. How many lives --and ending the
War-- and how much we saved!
NELSON: Has your opinion changed over
the last 50 years? If so, how?
TUTTLE: No, absolutely not.
NELSON: When and where were you officially discharged from service.
TUTTLE: I was officially discharged out
here at Camp Grant in Rockford, Illinois.
�NELSON: Do you have any disability rating or pension?
NELSON: Is there anything you would like
to mention that we haven’t touched on that
you would like to mention on this interview.
TUTTLE: None.
NELSON: Do you have any opinions or
feelings about the nation’s military status or
its policies?
TUTTLE: Yes, I do. I don’t think women
should be in combat jobs. I think they
should be in jobs where they are pretty well
protected. It would be terrible if they were
captured.
TUTTLE: Off hand, I can’t think of anything.
NELSON: Well, Everett, it has been very
nice interviewing you. Thank you very
much.
TUTTLE: Well, thank you.
NELSON: Do you have any contact with
the Veterans’ Administration?
TUTTLE: No, not really. I had some and I
was very disappointed.
NELSON: Have you ever been in a Veterans’ Administration Hospital?
TUTTLE: No, I haven’t.
NELSON: Would you like to tell us about
your family? How your family supported
you during your military life? I think you
mentioned this earlier.
TUTTLE: My family--They were 100%
behind me, you know. They were concerned, the same as any parents, same as the
average American family.
NELSON: Over the subsequent years, what
has this support meant to you?
TUTTLE: Well, it just makes you more
aware what keeps your own family strong.
Then, I believe if the family is strong the
nation is strong.
Editor, November, 2018:
Everett Tuttle died June 29, 2018. Per his
obituary in the Rockford Register Star [legacy.com, published July 3-5, 2018] he was a
veteran of the US Army 765th Bomb Squadron in WWII. He retired from All Rental
Garment.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
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Midway Village Museum
Publisher
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Midway Village Museum
Date
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1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Everett Tuttle
Location
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Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Everett Tuttle
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
27-Jul-94
Description
An account of the resource
Born in 1923, Everett Tuttle was drafted in 1942 into the Army Air Force, becoming part of a weather crew. He was discharged in 1946. He died June 29, 2018.
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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PDF Text
Text
Floyd Swenson
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
For Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
�Floyd Swenson
Today is January 31st, 1994. My name is Jim Will
and I’m a volunteer with the Midway Village and
Museum Center which is cooperating with a
statewide effort to collect oral histories from Illinois
citizens that participated in the events surrounding
World War II. We are at the home of Floyd Swenson
who lives at 3681 Blackhawk Road, in Rockford,
Illinois. Mr. Swenson, can I call you Floyd?
S: Yes.
W: What were their first names?
S: I’ll start with the boys. There’s Arthur, Walter,
Eskil, Carl and Philip and Floyd. That’s the 6.
W: How about sisters?
S: The first one was Amy and the second one was
Eldora. Amy was the only one that got married and
she had a son that passed away.
W: He served in a branch of the United States Armed
Forces during World War II and we are going to interview him about his experiences today.
W: So there was what, seven of you then?
S: I was with the, in World War II, that’s true, as a
combat engineer.
W: Including you.
S: There’s 8.
S: There were 6 boys, counting me, and 2 sisters.
W: Okay.
W: You mentioned your folks came from Sweden?
S: The combat engineers were with the one branch of
that unit. I was in 161, Infantry Division.
W: Okay.
S: We built all the roads up to them and went ahead
and built the roads and stuff.
W: Why don’t we start out with your full name.
S: That is my full name. I had a twin brother and my
folks were going to call me Philip Floyd. Well, I was
the afterbirth. (Laughter)
S: My dad was born in __?__, and my mother was
born at Hjo, Sweden. That’s on the Lake [Vattern]. A
lot of storms rise on that lake they used to tell us
about.
W: They came over here about when?
S: The closest I can get it, my dad washe didn’t
like to get into the army and they had compulsory
service and he got to come over here. My uncle was
on my mother’s side, or her uncle rather, Oscar Lindquist, he was the father of Carl E. Lindquist that was
the jeweler on Broadway.
W: Where were you born?
S: In Rockford.
W: Yeah, I’ve heard of that. Just before the World
War II started, do you remember what life was like in
1941 and 1940?
W: What date?
S: My mother’s name was Anna Sophia Johnson was
her maiden name. My dad’s name was Carl Allen
Richard Swenson.
S: In 1960 we moved up here from Stillman Valley. I
was 2 years old when they moved to Stillman Valley
and I was going on five when we moved up here. It
was in 1916 they moved over to Stillman Valley.
That was really cold weather. They mentioned it on
TV now. It stormed so bad that it was up over the
fence posts. The folks took the sled to go around the
fields to get through.
W: Do you have any brothers or sisters?
W: You graduated from high school?
S: Yes, I had 5 brothers and 2 sisters.
S: Yeah, I graduated from Monroe Center High
School in 1927.
S: February 5th, 1907.
W: What was the name of your parents?
�W: Just before the war, what were you doing? Did
you have a job?
S: When I was overseas he got killed bombing the
Ploesti oil fields. He made only 2 trips.
W: He was in the Air Corps there.
S: I hired out to a farmer just across the field and I
went over here by Prairie Hill and I hired out to him.
That was in the summertime when I was in high
school but as soon as I got out of high school my
folks knew Augie Lindquist. We lived right beside
him in Rockford on Highland Avenue and Chicago
Avenue, in that area. Augie was the first county forester and I can honestly say he’s been the only one
that was really a forester that’s had that position.
From then on it was all politics.
S: Ordinarily they kind of ease up on the drafted men
in dangerous situation.
W: This is your wife’s brother.
S: That’s my wife’s brother.
W: What was his name?
S: Harold Stenerson.
W: So you were farming?
W: This one here? (Evidently looking at a picture.)
S: Yes, I was on the farm on Mulford with my folks.
We lived down there after 1916. Then I got to be
caretaker of Kishwaukee Forest Preserve. That was
when it was brand new. One fellow ahead of me, I
was down there but I got in there and I was the boss.
Then we had the WPA came in and I was in charge
of 2 or 3 hundred fellows had come in to work in the
forest preserves. I got the truck drivers in the forest
preserve, too.
W: That farm you were talking about on South Mulford, that wasn’t that one Blackhawk Springs?
S: It was on Mulford Road, about a mile and a half
north of the by-pass.
W: Okay. What were you doing in December of
1941? So you remember Pearl Harbor, what were you
doing?
S: I went into the army March 13th, now wait a minute.
W: Do you remember hearing about Pearl Harbor?
S: Oh yes, My wife and I, we weren’t married yet and
we were sitting at the radio with the family. Her
brother was in the army at that time in the draft. He
was down in Tennessee. Now I says they’ll take
__?__. Sure enough
W: They shipped him out.
S: Anyway he was down south there and he got tired
of being in just the plain Army so he got into the Air
Corps.
S: Yeah. That’s Harold Stenerson. There he is.
W: Good looking guy.
S: He was a __?__.
W: Hm. He was with the 15th Air Force.
S: Yeah. He was a tail gunner in, I forget where, in a
big bomber.
W: So you heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor on
the radio then?
S: That’s right and before I got married, I told Edith,
that’s my wife, __?__ my sister adopted him. That
was Glen Johnson and he got in the Air Corps later
on as a __?__.
W: We are looking at pictures of
S: That’s my brother and there I am. Whoever copied
this down, they got it wrong. They said that he was
the first one in. I was the first one in the family that
got in and he got in and he got in the Medical Corps
down in Texas.
W: That’s your brother.
S: Yeah. That’s my brother Carl. Well anyhow, Carl
came home on furlough and he came into Rockford
or into Camp Grant and he called up, he said, “They
won’t let me out.” I said, “You’re coming home.” I
remember I had Corporal stripes on. “Don’t tell me I
can’t take my brother home,” I says. He’s coming or
I’ll steal him.
W: Oh, okay.
W: Kidnapping.
�S: He came home. He was “tickled pink” to get
home.
W: After you heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor
what was your first thought?
S: I was leading up to that. I told my wife, “If I get
married I’m in the draft right now”
W: Newly married and drafted, right?
S: I was married before I was
W: I say newly married, right?
W: You weren’t married at the time, right.
S: I told my wife, I says if they draft me I’m not going to object. I could have been an objection, because
I was married see.
S: I wasn’t married at the time.
W: What did your wife think about this?
W: This was your fiancé, right?
S: She said, “You go.”
S: That’s right. We got married on January 2nd, 1942,
and you was talking about 1941.
W: How about the rest of your family, what did they
think?
W: Did you hear aboutof course you must have
heard about Hitler and all the troubles that were going on over in Europe.
S: There was nothing they could do about it. That
was the draft. Now my oldest brother, Art, he was in
World War I and he was in the Navy. He got half
way across and he was tickled pink that he was going
to go to Paris. He liked to travel. And then they had
to turn around because the war was over. They had to
turn around and he had to come back. He was really
disappointed.
S: Oh, we heard about Hitler long before.
W: What did you think about that?
S: I was going with another girl into Rockford and
they’d send tobacco or cigarettes or cigars to her relatives in Germany. She said, “You don’t dare to send
too much or they would question it.”
W: When you were drafted, where were you sent?
S: When I was drafted it was over here in Camp
Grant.
W: And she was from Germany?
W: In Camp Grant?
S: No, she was Swedish. But there’s all fancy talk
about that. Well, I shouldn’t bring this up yet according to the story. You better read another question.
W: You remember from the events what went on, did
you realize what he was doing over there?
S: Well, yeah. I was drafted in Camp Grant. We had
to go into Chicago for the test. You know, for our
examination. Then we came back to St. Louis down
to Fort Leonard Wood. That was when there was a
brand newthey didn’t have any hard roads down
there then. It was all dust and dirt.
S: Right. Right.
W: What was life like down there?
W: He was up to no good and so forth.
S: Evidently. They had that on the radio. He was expecting homes and everything else.
S: I didn’t like it down there so I’d never say anything.
W: You didn’t like it down there.
W: What led up to your entry into the service? Were
you drafted?
S: I worked myself up and got to be a corporal and
that was fine. Our sergeant (unintelligible)
S: I was drafted.
W: Was that the 27th Battalion, Company A?
W: You were drafted?
S: That’s right.
S: I was drafted and I got in on my brothers birthday,
March 31st 1942. Then I was drafted.
W: What Platoon?
�S: Fourteen? Fourteen. Yeah. Fourteen.
W: At Fort Leonard Wood.
S: Yeah.
W: Do you have any other memories of your training
down there, basic training?
S: Our Platoon, I was in the First Platoon then and we
built bridges. There’s a bridge building complete.
W: This was at Fort Leonard Wood.
S: That was at Fort Leonard Wood.
S: They wanted me in the medics. I said, “Nothing
doing, I don’t want to be in the medics.” They just
put me through the general stuff and put me in the
kitchen. I said, “I don’t be here, I want to work outside.” So I got into that.
W: What did you think of the training?
S: It was good. I was old enough to know what was
right and what was wrong. I knew how to live then
because I done it during the WPA (Works Project
Administration). I was in charge of groups of
___?___. That’s what I got into and the Captain came
out and ___?___ in peace time and he said, “You
don’t want to bewhat you want to be is in the
__?__ engineers.” I said, “Okay.”
W: Okay.
S: I had a camera and __?__
W: Pontoon?
S: Pontoon. We built bridges across the river there
and it was a big river. Our Platoon was the best in the
country so we got a weekend or a week off down
there to, I forget
W: Where did you go from there? Were you sent to
other camps?
S: The Army would send you all over the country.
We got through with the second ___?___ and when I
got through training that crew, they sent me home on
furlough. As soon as I got back, I knew when I was
in that would be my last trip.
W: You came home to Rockford.
W: A local city down there?
S: Well, there’s a camp in Arkansas. I’m getting so
old I forget it.
W: That’s all right.
S: __?__
W: What did you do during your break, your furlough or your pass?
S: When we were down there, it was Lake of the
Ozarks, that’s where we were stationed.
W: Okay.
S: Sergeants and all we had a good old time. I never
was a drinking man and never will be but
S: Yeah, I came home. My brother, he was married,
E. W. Swenson, at Swenson Spreader down there at
Lindenwood. He came down there. I got home. I said,
I’ll get a ride to Aurora” so he came down to Aurora,
picked me up and took me home and then he had to
take me back. I knew very well then where I was
going. I went back to Fort Leonard Wood. They put
me on a train and shipped me out to Raleigh, North
Carolina, and fixed me up with clothes everything for
a trip to Alaska.
W: Oh my goodness.
S: Then at the last minute they said we’re going to
send us west.
W: Where did you go to Alaska?
W: So you took care of the rest of them.
S: I never got to go to Alaska. That wasn’t a war zone
then. They weren’t doing anything there then but
there were troops there.
S: They didn’t dare to drink much at that time. The
army was really strict. There was no whoring around
either. That was against the law.
W: So they changed their mind and sent you west.
W: What were you, outside of building bridges, were
you trained for anything else? Any other training?
S: They sent me right back to St. Louis, Albuquerque, New Mexico and up to California and I knew
then that I was going overseas down in the South
�Pacific. We went into __?__ a camp there, an army
camp.
S: In the Guadalcanal area. Down in New Caledonia.
That’s an island. That’s French.
W: Where was that?
W: When was this? Do you remember?
S: __?__ California and I was up the Bay in San
Francisco. Then we got on a boat on Catalina.
You’ve heard of that?
S: Huh. What was that?
W: Do you remember what date when you arrived or
when you departed?
W: Yes.
S: The shipNo, I don’t remember the date exactly.
S: Well, we went down on that and then boarded ship
to be shipped out and a lot of fun about it. We got out
about a day and turned right around and come back
and took us right back to the same area.
W: It’s hard to remember dates.
S: I was in the hospital here (Probably showing a
picture). Well, we’ll come to that.
W: A change of plans?
S: No, something wrong with the ship. It was a Belgium ship (This part is inaudible. Laughter)
W: All right. We’ll get to that. Is this the name of the
ship?
S: This was coming home.
W: Now at this time what unit were you in? Do you
remember?
W: Oh, okay.
S: What unit? We were assigned to that group right
there, Company A.
S: That wasn’t going over. We were on that British or
that
W: Was it the 125th?
W: That ship from Belgium.
S: Yeah. That’s the division we were in. There’s my
brother-in-law.
S: That ship from Belgium.
W: You went all the way on that same ship then.
W: Okay.
S: Pretty soon I looked out and it was just a ship sitting.
S: Yeah, we went toon that same ship all the way
to New Caledonia Then one morning we got up. A lot
of us would sleep on top deck. It was dangerous in
one way. We should be downstairs and nobody
would light a cigarette and it was shipping One
morning we got up and we said, “Hey, wait a minute,
we’re not going west any more. We’re heading east.”
The sun was shining on the right hand side. I said,
“We’re going north. What’s happening?” We were
coming into the bay at Noumea. We went to camp
there and then we had to work there for a while loading ships and then we got transferred on to the ship
and when we left one of the presidential liners took
us up to Guadalcanal.
W: Malfunction.
W: Oh, okay.
S: Malfunction. Then it took over 15 days to go down
to Noumea. That’s down there in the South Pacific.
S: They were still fighting when we landed there.
S: My wife’s brother.
W: So anyway you were saying the boat turned
around. The ship turned around.
S: The boat turned around and we came back to camp
__?__ there’s a submarine out there and it hit the
ship. The old Army gig, see.
W: Oh, okay.
W: Where?
W: That was probably the end of ’42
S: That was in 43.’ We got on a ship there and it was
a presidential liner, John Adams. They took us all the
�way up to Guadalcanal. From then on, we landed in
Guadalcanal and I got interrupted __?__. Talk about
mud and rain and mud and more mud.
W: Okay.
W: Were you involved in any of it?
S: And this is our regional officer, __?__ Erickson.
That’s whereSan Manuel. That was one of the biggest battles and that’s when General MacArthur come
by and a buddy of minethe Japs were afraid to fire
at Piper Cubs. It would expose their position. I met
him afterwards. He was one of the fliers over there.
That’s enough about that but
S: They were bombing us and we wanted to get out
of there, get out in __?__
W: You were in the Philippines for 165 days or just
that unit?
W: Bomb shelters.
S: What was this?
S: In Guadalcanal and then we were suited up to
__?__ airport in New Georgia. Then we got up to
New Georgia and one of the fellowsI got talking to
him about taking Guadalcanal. He was one of the
first. I met him in the hospital. He said there was a
hill there and the Marines, before sunset, they had the
Japs off of that hill. They moved that fast.
W: Were you in the Philippines for 165 days?
W: Was there combat going on there?
S: Yeah, oh yeah.
S: Oh, yeah. I was there until they shipped me home.
I could have gone from there to Japan. Nuts to that
__?__ sign it up in the corner and you don’t know
what to do. That was it.
W: How long were you at Guadalcanal?
W: Do you remember any of the individuals you
were friends with over there?
S: I’d say about 2 months, building roads and then we
went to
S: Well
W: Was it secured before you left?
W: Their names? Do you keep in contact with any of
those still around?
S: Well, no. There were stragglers there.
W: It was still going on>
S: There were stragglers and we chased them all out.
Then we went up to New Georgia. New Georgia is
north of New Caledonia. It’s north of Guadalcanal
and I had a picture of that at one time. Any how we
went up to New Georgia and took New Munda and
we got through with that and then we went up to another island
(This ends side 1 of the tape and there is quite a long
silence before it records again.)
S: Yeah, Commander in Chief at the Regional Headquarters Group. This is the last farewell
W: That’s a photo of Fort Leonard Wood
S: That’s our Thanksgiving dinner. Here’s that
S: Here’s a picture and this is Gallagher who was
killed over there. I still write to his widow. She’s in
Georgia. Gallagher’s right here. Wright, I wrote to
him. Strolen was in Guadalcanal. He got shot there
through the shoulder. Him and I were in the same
tent. I had my half on this side and his half on this
side. That was when I killed that snake. (inaudible)
He got a Purple Heart
W: And that’s you sitting there.
S: That’s me. “Hey, Swede, turn around.” I said, “Oh
nuts. I didn’t care if I getI was tuckered out. I was
working.
W: What were you doing here?
S: Just what I said.
W: Okay.
S: (Inaudible)
W: That’s you?
W: This was on Luzon yet?
S: Yeah, that’s me.
�S: Yeah. I’ll show you another picture here. It was at
Christmas.
and he actually threw him right out on the road. He
said, “Don’t you for supper this time either.”
W: Okay.
W: How about smoking over in the Philippines, on
duty or off duty.
S: I started corresponding with him when
W: What was his name?
S: We could smoke any time we wanted to. Of
course, I did smoke. Before we left New Zealand and
we were
S: He was still over inthe Americanshe was in
Japan.
W: Caledonia?
W: Jerry Krump?
S: Jerry Krump.
S: And he lived in
S: It wasn’t New Caledonia. It was New Georgia and
we left therewhen we were leaving we had to move
we had a detail moving all our restaurant stuff and
chests
W: Footlockers.
W: Virginia.
W: In your spare time.
S: Chests and stuff and there were all kinds of beer
cans and Lieutenant said, “Boys, help yourself.” We
ended up with two cans a piece. I didn’t like beer but
that time I drank beer. It was so hot. It was just terribly hot. I drank two cans. I said, “That’s the best beer
I ever tasted but you can have your beer. That was
when we got up in the Philippines and then they
started pushing out more beer and __?__ that way
you’d get a certain amount.
S: Exactly. They didn’t want to play me. I knew how.
W: They’d ration it.
W: You were the best one.
S: One of our buddies, he was a Sergeant second
class. He wasn’t a first or a Staff Sergeant. He got too
much __?__. He told some of the guys “Ever since
__?__ he got any of that beer, he hadn’t ought to
have it. I give it to him. He had several demerits. He
was really a good scout. When we got up in the Philippines all he needed was, I think it was 2 or 3 weeks
before he could be shipped back home. It was my
duty to pick out the crew I wanted to work up at the
front. He said, “Floyd, please don’t take me up to the
front any more.” It was just like my brother-in-law.
Two trips and he would have been safe. There’re men
I know had 2 days.
S: Virginia. Him and Krump or Wright, I taught them
how to play chess. I had learned how to play chess. I
had written to my wife and said, “Send me chess
men.” So she sent the chess men to me. We had
checkerboards over there. I taught them how to play
chess.
S: But then I kidded a couple of years ago about being over there. I says, “Yeah, Krump, he’s turned into
a minister and you to went out playing with the
women. I got a letter from him. I’ll let you read it.
Krump turned into a minister. When I started writing
to him, I said, “ Wow if your wife knew all the things
I know about you” but he was a good sport, too, and
he was older thanwhat other questions did you
want?
W: Well, did youwhen you were over there doing
your duty, what other kind of life
W: What was your rank at the time?
S: Army life then was much stricter than what it is
now. When I was at Fort Leonard Wood “No Smoking in the Dining Room.” One time a little short guy,
he was a Buck Sergeant, come in and this First Sergeant Lusander, he was in the dining room and here
this little Buck Sergeant came in there, a cigarette in
his mouth and he says, “There’s smoking in here.”
He grabbed the Sergeant by the neck and by the pants
S: I was Staff Sergeant at the end. I went right up the
line.
W: So you let him off
S: Yeah, I said, “You don’t need to worry I’m not
going toanybody tries to take you up to the front
tell them to come to my first. He was a friend if there
ever was one. Are you taping this?
�W: Oh, yeah, sure. It’s all for the record.
W: Casualties there.
S: I don’t know if
S: A lot of those Japs. There’s nothing worse than the
smell of a dead body.
W: May I read it or
S: Yeah, if you want to read it
W: I can stop it.
S: You can stop it off and then later, well
W: Were there a lot of bugs and mosquitoes and
whatever
S: Yeah, a lot of mosquitoes. They were terrible. We
landed up here around __?__ that’s where I lived.
Here’s where we got a big laugh out of that. I don’t
know if you noticed that or not but here is __?__
W: I’ll tell you what, I’ll read it later.
W: He had his helmet on backwards.
S: But any how this guy, he got into a fishing boat
that he bought and he got over to Hawaii and that’s
where our company is at Schofield Barracks. I told
him about (inaudible)
W: Did you get a lot of letters from your parents and
you brothers and sister?
S: That came out in the newspapers here in this country after the war.
W: Secretary of the Navy, Frank Knox, had his hat
on backwards.
S: Almost everyday but
S: Here, we’re getting back home and this is kind of
worth seeing
W: Did you get a lot of mail, too, or not?
W: Georgia Island.
S: Yeah, I got a lot of letters mostly from my wife
and immediately family, see, but I’d write to the wife
on that free postage stuff, I got one of them here, every day unless I was in action. Here’s Guadalcanal.
S: That was __?__ Airport.
W: You wouldn’t happen to be in this one?
S: No. No. I couldn’t find but is that it?
W: We’re looking at a book over there, the 25 th Infantry Division.
W: There’s two pages here.
S: Yeah, They’re from Schofield Barracks.
S: There’s some good Japs.
W: Looks like rugged country there.
W: Dead ones, huh.
S: Here’s some
S: (inaudible)
W: Now a road like this, did you, were you involved
in
W: On your gun __?__. You were with the 161 st Engineers?
S: This is Guadalcanal but I don’t know any of these
boys. There’s the galloping horse.
S: Yeah, we were with the 161st.
S: Did I get 2 that time?
W: Shape of a horse.
S: There’s somethat’s where we had to build
bridges across.
W: Well you might have. There we go. There are
engineers at work there. Bulldozing up to the middle
of the track with their soldiers
W: A lot of mud involved.
S: At times I’d even hear a truck, or a car
S: Yeah. And there’s some
W: Or a jeep
�S: Yeah, a jeep and the jeep pulled the tank out.
W: Did you see any Japs at all or any Jap prisoners or
S: Oh, yeah.
W: They didn’t take many Jap prisoners, did they?
S: Oh, yeah, we had a lot of Jap prisoners. Right after
we got out of the 165 straight days, I think it was the
second day after, I was walking down a ditch there
and there were a lot of trees, see. Out came a Japanese officer. I said, “Hey, put up your hands.” A corporal under me said, “Hey, Swede, you haven’t got
your rifle.” I didn’t need it. The Jap came right up.
W: He gave up to you.
S: __?__ My wife had sent me she’d send jokes or
cartoons. One guy was listening to the radio and he
was preaching about the cost of this and the cost of
that. He gets done talking. Well I can’t say how he
worded it but he was all fed up on his cartoon. And lo
and behold I turned that cartoon over and it showed
this island that showed exactly where Kennedy was
shot.
W: On the back of the __?__.
S: We couldn’t write home and I couldn’t tell her in
so many words
W: Where you were at.
S: Couldn’t tell her where I’m at. The letters were
censored. Now they can write and tell them everything.
S: He gave up.
W: Yeah.
W: You took a prisoner then.
S: Yeah and I was closest to him. I wasn’t in uniform
either.
W: Oh, you weren’t.
S: (Inaudible)
W: Do you know what happened to him? You went
back to the rear.
S: Now we come to the picture of a
(Much of this is inaudible as it appears he is looking
through a book trying to find something.)
S: That’s New Zealand.
W: New Zealand Brigade, huh. There’s the Philippines.
S: Yeah. We’re down at New Zealand and “stike and
eggs” see. Stike and eggs.
S: No, there were too many. That same corporal that
told me “where’s your rifle?”
W: Stike and eggs.
W: You were required to carry a weapon then.
S: Let’s see. Now 2 this fellows in there
S: Oh yeah. When the Jap came out, I didn’t have to
have the rifle with me.
(Occasional comments by both as they were looking
at pictures.)
W: What if he hadn’t surrendered?
S: That burned us guys up. We had to march
S: At times, there were more men shot in back of the
front lines then were actually shot up front, of our
men. We went through so fast, there was one place
thereI’ll tell you about that later. Here’s where
__?__ and what’s his name, Kennedy was on
W: In review, huh.
S: Yeah.
W: Having a little fun there? Looks like transporting
vehicles through water.
W: Where he had his PT boat?
S: Yeah. This book is dedicated to
S: He got shot at and sank his boat.
W: How was the food over there?
W: Right in that strait there.
�S: Oh, we had our own cooks and when we moved
out of there we had crappy food.
S: It was an accident.
W: Or goofing off.
W: Cooks couldn’t
S: Our cooks were direct from Washington and when
we got up to New Caledonia the second time, he went
down and actually shot a deer and this cook from
Washington, he actually knew how to boy, we had
a good meal.
W: He knew how to clean a deer.
S __?__ our group, our platoon. Now here’s Charlie
McCarthy visited the area Thursday after __?__ the
corporal fixing the road
(Much inaudible)
S: He had no business digging up Jap mines. He
should have put a charge on it and blew them up.
W: Rather than dig them up, he blew them up.
S: We’d do that with TNT. We could handle that but
dynamite, we were scared stiff to carry that __?__
would set that off.
W: Okay.
S: And when we were down there in New Caledonia
we’d go down to the beach __?__ with a big wire
along and put a fuse to the TNT
S: __?__ the big boys
(A lot of this is inaudible)
W: Company E, the 161st
S: I was company E.
W: You were company A?
S: Here we are. There’s the Lieutenant. That was him
in that other picture.
W: Okay.
S: He told me
S: __?__ he made a law. He was our company commander. He told our officers, “You can’t go down
there and dynamite for fish any more.” We had a 50gallon can, gas drum, see. We had that all shined up
and fry them right there and eat them. He told the
officer “It’s none of your business __?__ supposed to
do that.” He said, “I got a book fellows” __?__ and
parked his carcass on the back of a tree __?__. He
knew his stuff. When you’re going up front sometimes there are guys you didn’t like. It was just too
bad.
W: Beckwith?
W: Did you ever have to clean up all this wreckage
and stuff.
S: Yeah, Beckwith. And this one’s Monks and I forget this fellow’s name. But they’re digging up mines
on their own.
S: No.
W: __?__ them or digging them up?
W: You weren’t involved in any of that.
W: Doesn’t sound like too good a job.
S: We left it right where it was. We’d look through
the tanks and stuff. This is like the work we did.
We’d pull up launch like that. We had a bunch of
natives.
S: No. That’s where that little Irishman got killed.
W: Helping out.
W: Oh, was it?
S: A bunch of workers, Philippine laborers under our
supervision.
S: That LieutenantOne of the guys said, “If I ever
see that guy again in an alley, he’ll never get out
alive.” Just on foolishness.
W: That’s a type of bridge that’s a photo of the
bridge here.
W: It was an accident?
S: That’s where the Japs had __?__, see.
S: Dig them up, too.
W: They wrecked the bridge here.
�S: Yeah. My kid says, “That’s you, Dad.” It could be.
opened up on us the day before. Everybody thought
that they got the Japs up there.
W: You don’t remember that.
W: Got rid of them.
S: We went through __?__ and __?__.
W: By the side of the road.
S: That’s what I’m looking for. Now there’s, we’d
have to build __?__.
W: The Japs destroyed a bridge there.
S: There’s one of the bulldozers of the 165th engineers. There’s one of the roads we made.
S: The next morning, he came back with uswe’d
already walked up the roads and they opened up and
they shot at this grader and instead of turning around,
he give it the gas and went on up the hill. He got a
bronze medal out of it. Us guys, we got shot at and
we didn’t get a bronze medal. Even the guys who fell
down and got a scratch on the knee, they’d claim a
medal for it and they’d get them.
W: Did you get any?
W: Oh, okay. Boy, that’s a long hilly one.
S: I got burned. I had one hit me on the hand.
S: We’d get way up on the top there on “Bonsai
Ridge”. There’s the red __?__. That’s when I got the
Buck Sergeant. On the second or third day we had a
steep hill and they wanted a tree blown out and I dug
a charge down there and put in just one charge. Ordinarily you’re supposed to put 2 charges in. If one
didn’t go off, then you’d hook up the next one. Well,
I just put in one and it didn’t go off. By mid afternoon we got all the trees down. Low and behold, one
of the officers came up and said, “When we leave
you ” I said, “Nothing doing”.
W: What, a medal. I mean
S: Oh, yeah, a bullet, a bomb hit it
W: Shrapnel.
S: Shrapnel.
W: Did you get a commendation for it then or Purple
Heart or whatever?
S: No.
W: After you did all the work.
S: “After we done all this work, I’m going to see
them covered up.”
W: You didn’t bother with it.
W: What were you covering up?
S: No. Some “cotton pickin” __?__ thought it was
funny but anyhow a lot of them earned it and deserved it. That’s for sure.
S: That cave hole.
W: Didn’t sound like too pleasant an area to be in.
W: Oh, okay. You were burying the cave.
S: __?__ many things to recall.
S: They blasted it and they found 12 or 15 bodies in
there. Japs. That’s what I wanted to see the actualwhat we’d been doing. Here we’d been digging
our way up there.
W: Did you get any of your mail? Did you ever get
any packages, you know, food or
S: All this stuff from home. We’d get a small package of cookies or something. We had to pass them
around.
W: Now the Japanese prison camps. Were they empty or were they
S: We didn’t capture
W: They wouldn’t let you, you wouldn’t, you
couldn’t, outside of food and maybe clothing or
something maybe
W: You didn’t see any.
S: We couldn’t have any civilian clothes.
S: We over ran __?__. But going up one time we
took a grader up when all of a sudden machine guns
Japs opened up on them. Well, they’d already
W: Okay.
�S: If we needed a pair of shoes, if they got muddy
and dirty and that, we could throw them and __?__ a
pair of shoes and we’d get them right now.
W: 165 days is like from January to May.
W: Most of the packages from home were food.
W: Okay, these are photos in Japan.
S: Yes, mostly food. Now my brother, he sent some
wine to me and that came through.
S: Is this Japan? I went over on Japan
S: Here’s Japan. Here’s Osaka.
S: (Inaudible).
W: It came through all right.
W: That’s in the Philippines.
S: We celebrated that.
S: __?__ Pass.
W: Passed that around too.
W: You helped build that.
S: It wasn’t too much. I remember that. Everything
was censored coming in. I told my wifeI told my
brother if I have to mention when I was in New Caledonia I said, “If you know __?__ it’s from a town
very similar to what Edith is from. That’s my wife.
She was born and raised in Caledonia.
S: My squad helped build it but they did an awful
poor job on the cement jobs here. I imagine the Filipinos tore that thing down.
W: Looks like Japan there.
W: Illinois.
Both talking at once. Inaudible.
S: It also came out in the paper when the 25 th Division moved. It came out.
W: Here you go, January 17th to June 30th, 1945.
Then they shipped you out.
W: I suppose the civilians knew.
S: About 3 months duration that we’re
S: The civilians, if they knew their map a little bit,
why
W: And you didn’t want to go to Japan so they
shipped you back to where, Hawaii maybe? Back to
the States?
W: Could figure out the general area, I suppose.
S: When I go to Bible class, that was 2 years ago, I
had that map of where I’d with that cartoon on it.
One of the women there in the class was a teacher
over there in Belvidere and I said “Here it is right on
the back and here’s where we were”. She went home
to look up the maps and sure enough she found out
that’s where Kennedy had __?__ with his motor boat.
S: No, back to San Francisco. We just missed Hawaii. We could see Hawaii at night and we had all
kinds of casualties on our boat, on our ship. They
don’t call them boats, they’re ships.
W: Do you remember the name of the ship you came
back on?
S: No. Now that’sit was a brand new ship.
W: With his PT boat. Now at the end of the 165 days,
were you sent back home then?
W: Hard to remember those.
S: Yeah.
S: I’m at that age, forgetful too much.
W: After all your duties?
W: That’s okay, you don’t have tonow when you
were over in the States then, when they dropped the
bomb on Hiroshima, the atom bomb:
S: Yeah. Right away they asked me what I wanted to
do. I said, “I sure as the dickens ain’t going to Japan.”
W: This was about May of 1945?
S: Yeah.
S: Oh, yeah, yeah.
W: What did you think of that?
�S: That’s fine. That’s fine. The officers told us the
day after said that we had to watch our step, it was
dangerous.
W: Okay. Okay. So you were over there when all of
the celebrating in the States was going on at the end
of the war.
W: What was your thought of it? What did you think
of the atom bomb?
S: Oh, Yeah. I wasn’t up in the front with any of the
troops. They took us guys off by ourselves.
S: It was fine, fine. Truman done the right thing. But
a lot of people cussed him out for doing it. That
shortened the war right away.
W: What did you do when you heard the end of the
war when the Japs surrounded?
W: It saved the U. S. troops.
S: Two or three days later the second bomb came and
then the Japs gave up and MacArthur took over. And
MacArthur was in the Philippines, he was in the Philippines before the war started and he had to escape
and go to Australia and when he came back of, I have
pictures of that, too.
W: And he took over in Japan then after that.
S: Yeah. He should have been made President. He
didn’t believe in killing off everybody. He’d surround that island and starve them to death. Starve
them until they’d give up. I got a magazine on that.
Take a look at it.
S: Well I didn’t take my gun out and shoot it like
they did at Camp Grant. When World War I was over
a fellow at Camp Grant shot and killed somebody.
They celebrated World War I. I said, “I hope they
don’t do it in World War II now.”
W: Most of your troops over there were glad it was
over?
S: Oh, sure. You aren’t kidding they were glad it was
over.
W: What was the most difficult thing you had to do
when you were
S: When I was in the service?
W: Yeah.
W: Okay.
S: I got this book in 1979. That’s all about him how
starving had less fatalities.
W: They cut them off, didn’t they?
S: I’d say it was building bridges. That’s heavy work.
W: Harder than those replacements?
S: Oh yeah, that’s solid ground. When you start taking a boat across the river (inaudible).
S: Because he cut them off.
W: This is a newspaper of August 15, 1945. Rockford Morning Star, Second World War ends. Where
were you at, at this time? You were in San Francisco
yet?
S: No, I was overseas. This is 1945.
W: You were still over there?
W: How long would it take? It would depend on the
length of the bridge, I suppose.
S: Oh, yeah. You take the Rock River down here.
Well that’s just a little stream.
W: About how long would it take you to put one
across the Rock River? About 100 yards? A few days
or a week?
S: No, I came back in October.
S: Oh, no. It wouldn’t be a week. You’d get it across
in a day and have troops going across. First we’d
make just small sidewalks and then we’d come back
with the big pontoons and lay them down for the
heavy equipment (inaudible)
W: You were still in the Philippines then.
W: When and where were you discharged?
S: Yeah.
S: In Chicago. October 8th, 1945.
S: Oh, yeah. I spent 3 ½ years overseas.
W: I thought you came back in June of ’45.
�W: 1945. Did you ever
W: Oh, okay. On the back it says “fire bomb attack.”
Bombers bombed that for 3 days do you think.
S: My son’s birthday it turned out to be.
S: I was deaf in my right ear.
S: Yeah, for 3 days. We were sitting up there on the
mountain and lobbed mortar shells down on them and
our heavy artillery was in back of us but then they’d
throw one smoke bomb down and was suppose to
aim for it and then come in blasting.
W: Due to your service?
W: Oh. They never fell short did they?
S: I couldn’t hear good with my right ear but I was
inducted anyhow. But there’s a very prominent baseball player today, he got exempt to play baseball instead of a deaf mute like me and I served my time but
he got to play baseball he’s still in the news today.
S: Well, they didn’t fall short. The artillery knew how
far they could __?__ but there were 4 or 5 guns lined
up and they were shooting and each one, all 4 of
them would go off at different times, just like you
were shooting with a shotgun. A captured Jap said,
“We want to see that automatic cannon you got out
there.”
W: Did you ever have any disabilities in the service
or any connection with the Veterans?
W: Well, all right, now you’re going to stump me
here.
S: That’s nothing new opening up spots to get to the
Japs.
W: Oh, he thought there was only one. Now this picture of all these airplanes, is that San Fernando Valley?
W: This is a picture of a bulldozer?
S: No, that’s “zeroes”.
S: Yeah, that’s a big bulldozer.
W: Jap “zeroes” [Mitsubishi A6M "Zero"]?
W: Did you drive one of those?
S: They’re lined up by __?__ Airport. They set them
up.
S: No, I didn’t want to be on that. I wish I had then I
would have had a good job when I got back.
W: Now these other pictures here. Are these Jap prisoners?
(Inaudible. Both speaking at once.)
S: after the war was over.
W: Who is this one?
S: That’s captured Japs.
W: They didn’t look too healthy, did they?
S: That’s the guy that had the cameras. He’s from
Lexington, Kentucky, Sgt. McCain(?) with a Jap
range finder.
S: But there’s a big __?__ of saws. Now the Japs
when they had there saw or tractor or tank they’re
real quiet. Ours, you could hear them, oh man
W: You captured that range finder.
S: The Japs had that in the back of
W: They were loud.
W: To peek over.
S: That saw took 3 men to really operate it.
S: You couldn’t tell (Inaudible).
W: They used that to cut through the trees.
S: The Japs weren’t so dumb.
S: We cut trees down.
W: What’s this valley again here?
W: Oh, no. Now this looks like the same guy.
McCain?
S: That’s San Fernando Valley.
S: Yeah. (Inaudible).
W: Must be the tank.
�S: But there’s a
W: Mother saves baby from python.
S: I cut that out of the paper. A lot of people say pythons are dangerous. If they’re hungry, they’ll take
care of you.
W: A news clipping from the Rockford Star, January
9, 1972. A woman in Manila took a look at a 15 ½
foot python about to swallow her 3 year old baby.
S: Nobody came up from where I did with stripes,
very few. I was corporal here in training men for two
groups for 3 months and I was corporal most of the
time. When my brother, when he returned out here at
Camp Grant, he called home and said, “I can’t come,
they won’t let me come”. I said, “I’ll be down to see
you.” I had my stripes on and that and I said, “What
do you mean I can’t take my brother home?” I said,
we’re going home”.
W: Do you remember VE Day in Europe?
S: Yeah.
S: Mine was only 12 ½ foot.
W: You were probably in the Philippines, right?
W: Six men in the vicinity wrestled with the serpent
for 20 minutes and slashed it dead with knives. Can
you tell us about the V-mail? What was that?
S: Yeah, we were in the Philippines.
W: What did you think about that?
S: What?
W: V-mail.
S: Then we got instructions about the bomber in the
end. The atomic bomb.
S: Yeah, V-mail, yeah.
W: The atomic bomb, okay.
W: How did they do that? You wrote a letter and then
S: That hastened the rest
W: Did you think that was good or bad?
S: We’d write out the letter and the army had to reduce that down small and then send it home.
W: Like about an 8 x 10 reduced down to 3 x 4 or so.
S: We thought it was good but we had to watch our
step then because we knew the Japs were trying to
get the atomic bomb on us and we were warned about
it but that was over the hill.
S: Yes.
W: Was that for light weight?
S: That was for light weight. And we’d get a lot of
that.
W: What is your opinion now about it now on this
date in 1994?
S: I still got hatred towards the Japs.
W: You do.
W: Interesting.
S: That’s quite a souvenir.
W: I’ll read that later.
W: Getting back to the questions here, is there one
thing that stands out as you most successful achievement while you were in the service?
S: Special? I imagine being advanced from corporal
on up to staff sergeant.
W: You were a corporal and then you were made a
staff sergeant.
S: But right now it isn’t as intense as it was but in
those days you captured a guy they’d go in back of
the lines and one guy said, “If I had my rifle I’d shoot
him again.” I said, “Now wait a minute. That’s not
right. You can’t do that. You got your man. He’s
supposed to be secure.”
W: A prisoner.
S: Yeah. That’s it.
W: What about VJ Day then when the Japs did surrender?
�S: I said, “I hope you guys keep the bullets out of
your guns. Don’t shoot anybody.” Because we heard
about them killing men here at Camp Grant.
W: No.
W: Celebrating.
W: All right. Christmas aboard the USS Adams.
S: Celebrating. That’s down right stupid. That’s no
way to celebrate.
S: Yeah, that
S: That’s in my other __?__.
W: You were over in the Philippines then, too, right?
W: Now this is the menu for Christmas Day, 1944
aboard ship
S: Yeah, we were over in the Philippines then.
S: That was going up to the Philippines, wasn’t it?
W: Was there a lot of celebrating out side of shooting
their weapons off. Parties and stuff?
W: Yes. Tomato juice cocktail, creamed turkey soup,
assorted olives, saltines, sweet pickles, roast young
tom turkey, corn bread dressing, giblet gravy, cranberry sauce.
S: We were over by __?__ Field at that time.
W: Okay.
S: We had seen enough of war that I didn’t think we
had to celebrate like that.
W: Did you get any disability while you were over
there?
S: I had kidney stones and I was in the hospital for 3
months.
W: With the fever
S: with kidney stones first. Then as soon as I got
ready to go back to the service, a nurse come out and
put thermometers in four fellows there and myself.
She got my thermometer and said, “Swenson, you
come over here and get in bed right away.” She put
me in ice cubes. She left those other guys set there
with thermometers.
S: I showed you that camera picture. That was down
at Fort Leonard Wood. That was before I got overseas.
W: That was only half the menu. Mincemeat pie,
fruitcake, Parker House rolls, butter, coffee, bread,
apples, cigars, nuts, candy, and cigarettes. That was
quite a meal.
S: On board ship we really had good food. Does that
answer question.
W: I think so. How about the Veterans Administration? Do you have anything to do with the VA.
S: The veterans, they got these groups and 9 out of 10
of them they get liquored up.
W: Oh, okay. Socialize.
S: And I have no use for that.
W: How did you guys celebrate holidays like Fourth
of July and Christmas?
S: One Fourth of July we were in Clark Field marching for the “cotton pickin” army.
W: For a drill or review or whatever?
S: Maybe it wasn’t Clark Field. That was in New
Caledonia we were marching. I wasn’t in it, the
march, I got out of it. (Inaudible)
W: How about Christmas?
S: Well on Christmas, didn’t I ever show you that
Christmas?
S: Not here in the States. No. Just in the hospital
overseas.
W: You look like you’re in pretty good health.
S: Yes, I am but I when we left New Zealand, we
had to march down to the dock and I said, “Never
again will I get fat.” I was 185 pounds.
W: Put on a little weight there.
S: I said, “Never again.” Here just a week or two ago
I met a guy up at Aunt Mary’s and he said, “You
eating alone?” I said, “I do all the time. My wife
passed away. I don’t get fat. I’ll never get fat again.”
�W: How did your family support during your overseas?
S: A Company. That was overseas.
W: That about does it. Do you want to say goodbye.
S: Just by writing letters. That’s all they could do.
W: Keep in contact.
S: The one that owned the shop down there at Lindenwood, he sent me some wine in a bottle and he
wasn’t supposed to do that. Any how I got it overseas.
W: In past years, looking back, what has this support
meant to you?
S: You mean
W: How your family supported you.
S: I told you that my twin brother wore my winter
coat. When I come home, there I was in my jacket. It
was cold. That was October 15th when I got home. I
said, “Where’s my coat.” My twin brother used it and
left my dad’s and he was a bigger man than either
one of us. That was kind of bad. Then when they sold
Camp Grant, that was a __?__ “bug a boo” They
went against by selling that property. They all went
against me.
W: During the service they were more or less
S: That was after the service.
W: During the service they supported you.
S: Oh, yeah, I’d get cookies and stuff.
W: Well, that about does it, Floyd, all the questions.
Any final comments?
S: I wouldn’t give a million dollars to change places.
W: Wouldn’t do any thing different.
S: No, I mean that I wouldn’t want to go through it
again. I would take a million bucks for me to go
through that again. But now it’s worth a million dollars to know about it.
W: For a final wrap, can you tell us what unit you
belonged to?
S: I was with the 25th Division, 65th Combat Engineers.
W: Any company, platoon and so forth?
S: Well thank you very much for the interview. I’ve
been waiting a long time and there’s 100 things I
could talk about but it’s not necessary.
W: It would take up a lot of tape. Bye now.
S: Bye.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jim Will
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Floyd Swenson
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Floyd Swenson
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
31-Jan-94
Description
An account of the resource
Born February 5, 1907, Floyd Swenson was an Army engineer, drafted in 1942. He was discharged in 1946. He died December 14,1995.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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PDF Text
Text
Frank R. Wilson
Frank R. Wilson
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
For Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, IL 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
Page 1
�Frank R. Wilson
Page 2
Frank R. Wilson
Today is March 19, 1994. My name is
Charles Nelson. I am a volunteer at Midway
Village and Museum Center in Rockford,
Illinois, which is cooperating with the
statewide effort to collect oral histories from
Illinois citizens that participated in the
momentous events surrounding World War
II. We are in the office of Midway Village
and Museum Center in Rockford, Illinois,
interviewing Mr. Frank R. Wilson who
served in a branch of the United States
Armed Services during the war. We are
interviewing him about his experiences in
that war.
NELSON: Frank, would you please start
introducing yourself to us. Please give us
your full name, date and place of birth. We
would also like to have the names of each of
your parents. Did you have any brothers or
sisters?
WILSON: My name is Frank Rodney
Wilson. My birth date is October 14, 1923.
My father’s name was Walter Wilson and
my mother’s name Bertha Cragler Wilson. I
have two sisters both of them are married.
NELSON: Are there any details about you
parents or you family that you would like to
give?
WILSON: Well, I guess we were pretty
ordinary for that period of time. However,
my father did build our home in Grand
Rapids, Michigan. (Long pause). There’s a
part of my grandfather’s homestead in a
museum up in Oconda, Wisconsin, where
my father was raised.
NELSON: What was life like for you before
the war specifically during 1941?
WILSON: I was senior that year in high
school. I was having a great time. Except for
the rationing that occurred after December
7th. I was involved in basketball and track
NELSON: What thoughts did you have
about the war before the United States
became directly involved in the conflict?
WILSON: Well, I figured we would get
into it, sooner or later. I didn’t think we
could remain neutral.
NELSON: How did you hear of the December 7th, bombing of Pearl Harbor by the
Japanese? If so, where were you and what
were you doing at the time? What was you
reaction and response to those around you?
WILSON: The football captain and I were
playing a game of touch football with a
coupleabout four other guys. A kid came
running out of a house near the park and
said the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor.
We didn’t believe him. We said, “You must
be joking.” He turned around and went back
in the house. When we got home we found
out he wasn’t joking.
NELSON: What was your reaction?
WILSON: Well, I figured we would get
into it on the side of England and we had a
purpose to stop the Germans and Japanese.
NELSON: Had you formed any prior
opinion or developed any feeling about what
had been taking place in Europe or Asia?
WILSON: Yeah. Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo
were ruthless dictators.
NELSON: Did you recall reading newspaper accounts of German aggression in
Europe.
WILSON: Yeah.
NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of
Hitler’s speeches, ideas or actions?
WILSON: No, I, not reallynot until we
got into the war. I guess being in high school
I didn’t pay too much attention to that.
�Frank R. Wilson
NELSON: What events led to you entering
the military service? Were you drafted or
did you volunteer?
WILSON: I came here to Camp Grant and
volunteered a week after I graduated from
high school.
Page 3
NELSON: Where did you take your basic
military training?
WILSON: In the southeast, three or four
different flight schools.
NELSON: And what were you trained to
do?
NELSON: Was you response to entering
military service influenced by family and
friends attitudes toward the war, the threat to
national security or other considerations?
WILSON: Be a pilot.
WILSON: Well, I wanted to get in, hopefully to fly.
WILSON: Good.
NELSON: This next section goes into basic
training. When and where were you inducted?
WILSON: Camp Grant.
NELSON: Do you have any special
memories of this event?
WILSON: I just came here and took the
physical and mental tests and then went
home and waited about six months for them
to call me to active duty and went to
classification (?) in Nashville.
NELSON: How old were you?
WILSON: When the war started I was
eighteen and when I joined I was eighteen
but I went on active duty when I was
nineteen.
NELSON: What happened after you were
inducted?
WILSON: At Nashville they decided
whether we were going to go to pilot school,
navigation school or bombardier’s school.
NELSON: Where were you sent?
WILSON: Maxwell Field, Montgomery,
Alabama, for pre-flight.
NELSON: What did you think of the
training?
NELSON: Did anything special happen
there?
NELSON: Well, when I was at Maxwell
Field we had an inspection one Saturday. It
was Hap Arnold. He came walking down
our rank and stopped tight in front of me and
asked my name and when I gave it to him he
said, “Where was that hat issued to you?” I
said, “In Nashville, sir.” Then he went down
the rank.
NELSON: Tell us about all the military
camps you attended. Tell us about
WILSON: Well, wait a minute now. I got
another one when I was primary. I was up
solo and on my way back to the home field,
I looked at the windsock and planned my
pattern according to the windsock and when
I was on the approach leg I looked up and
airplanes were coming at me. The wind had
changed on them and they hadn’t changed
their pattern on the ground. I got out of the
way as quickly as possible and there were
three or four military check pilots. All of our
instructors were civilians but the check
pilots were military and one of them said,
“You’re an accident going somewhere to
happen.” I just passed that off and I’m still
here so must not have been too bad except if
I had seen him later after I got back from
overseas I would have said, “Yeah, you sure
were right.” I had thirty-three accidents.
They all happened in Germans.”
�Frank R. Wilson
Page 4
NELSON: Tell us what other training
camps you attended.
WILSON: Get ready for combat, our
crew
WILSON: The primary was at Carlstrom
Field, Arcadia, Florida, BT-13 training was
at Cochran Field, in Macon, Georgia, twin
engine advance was at Turner Field, Albany,
Georgia.
NELSON: What did you think of the
nation’s war effort up to this time?
WILSON: Our war effort?
NELSON: Yes.
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or
passes?
WILSON: Had passes but I didn’t have
enough money to go into town and spend it
so I waited until I had my wings and had a
furlough home.
NELSON: What do you recall of this period
about the places you were stationed, the
friends you made and your association with
civilians?
WILSON: Oh, They were all good. They
knew what we were in training for.
NELSON: What was you military unit?
WILSON: 92nd Bomb Group, 407th Bomb
Squadron and __?__.
NELSON: What were your assigned duties?
WILSON: Co-pilot on a B17. (Long pause.)
NELSON: And this was participation in the
conflict? Where did you go after continuing
military training?
WILSON: Went to Kearney, Nebraska and
picked up a brand new B-17 and our crew
ferried it over to England.
NELSON: When you were sent overseas
how did you get there?
WILSON: I just explained that.
NELSON: What were you assigned to do
after arriving?
WILSON: Well, I thought it was taking an
awful long time to get everything thing in
gear and going.
NELSON: If you did not immediately enter
the combat zone, where did you go before
entering combat?
WILSON: Entered immediately after being
overseas.
NELSON: Tell us about your experience in
entering your first combat zone or missions-.
WILSON: The first mission was to Merseburg (Laughter.) It was very enlightening to
say the least. Flack was so thick it looked
like you could get out and walk on it. The
thing of it is we went back twice more.
About half way through and then on my last
mission. Back to Merseburg.
NELSON: Can you list for us in order of
occurrence all subsequent combat action in
which you are involved.
WILSON: D-day was my 7th mission. Then
some weeks later went to Berlin. Oh, yeah.
There was one mission to central France
shortly after the invasion. Germansit was
an Ozark type of area, mountain, foot hill
type mountains. And we weren’t suppose to
know about the munitions dump but they
weren’t suppose to know that we knew
about it, but when we got there, they were
waiting and the flack was really heavy. We
went in under 14,000 feet. I don’t think we
went on oxygen. The flight surgeon was
required to fly a mission every actual
combat mission once in awhile. This was
supposed to be a milk run. He was on this
�Frank R. Wilson
mission. I saw him later in debriefing and he
couldn’tHe took both hands to hold these
glasses of scotchshot of scotch. (Laughter)
NELSON: Are there any others you would
like to mention?
WILSON: Yeah. They are all kind of
blurred together except for the Merseburg
missions, Berlin and D-Day.
NELSON: Can you tell us
WILSON: We wound up flying for twelve
hours on this mission. We took off before
dawn, flew to what we thought was our
radio beacon. It was not light enough to see
so we were with the wrong formation. We
cruised around looking for our group and we
checked out three or four. Then off in the
distance we saw a formation that was
missing a plain in our position that we were
assigned to. So we went rushing up there
and found out it was not our group. But we
asked them if they minded if we tagged
along. They said, “No, come right along,”
Then we were approaching cruise altitude
near 20,000 feet and the tuning board super
chargers lost the governors, lost the governors and the engines revved way up. We
tried to check them out and feed them back
in but every time we hit a certain point, the
turbots would go out of control and so we
flew up the rest of that mission on virtually
two engines. The pilot asked me, “Do you
think we ought to feather it?” I said, “No,
we’ll be stone cold by the time we get back
below 10,000 feet. We won’t be able to
restart them.” So we just left them running.
We flew our misssion on the two outboard
engines. Then on the way back after we got
out of dangerous German airspace started
heading down. They always picked up speed
and we couldn’t stay with them with our 2 –
4 engines. So we must have been near the
front of the column of bombers coming
back. We slipped under each formation as it
caught up to us. We noticed that the first
group that did that all their guns were
trained on us because there were German B-
Page 5
17s that would go up there who pulled that
kind of a stunt and shoot a bunch of them
down. So we made sure all of our guns were
turned away from the formation. We slipped
from one formation after another caught up
to them. Then we were over England and we
were by ourselves and we passed over B-26
field and asked for a heading to our field.
They gave it to us and we went on and made
our landing. The next morning we were out
there for another mission and the sergeant in
charge of the troops said, “You guys landed
on fumes.” There wasn’t more than about
five gallons for each engine. If we had to go
around, something had gone wrong and we
had to go around we wouldn’t have made it.
We would have ended up in some English
farmer’s field.
NELSON: Please tell us in full detail, if
possible, about the approximate number of
and types of casualties, how they occurred
and how they were treated.
WILSON: Well, I was extremely lucky.
I’ve got to say I was extremely lucky. The
day that we flew a mission we did not suffer
any losses. Airplanes, there were a few that
got wounded with flack. Our ball-turret
gunner received a scratch that took about 6
stitches, a piece of shrapnel came into the
ball-turret, whizzed around and bouncing off
everything and cutting over the eye on one
bounce. We saw 3 enemy aircraft and 2 of
them were enemies chasing a lone 17 that
had aborted and was headed back for
England. As far as I could watch him, he
was still in the air. Then on my last mission
an ME-162 rocket plane attacked our
formation. It put a hole with a cannon shell
big enough in the lead ship’s wing, left wing
for a man to crawl through and in the
process it cut through a control cable. And
we were on the bomb run. We had past the
IP, bomb bay doors were open and he felt
the plane slipping out of control. He hit the
salvo switch and all the other bombardiers
were watching and following the lead plane
and when they saw his bombs hit and so we
didn’t come any where close to the target,
but he got that plane back to England. He
�Frank R. Wilson
couldn’t lead the group. He had to fall out
and go back on his own but he got that plane
back.
NELSON: Were their casualties? How were
they treated?
WILSON: To tell you the truth, I didn’t see
any.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change
as combat continued?
WILSON: Well, I was just getting gladder
and gladder the closer I got to my last
mission to get it over with.
NELSON: What did you think of the war so
far?
WILSON: Well, like I say, D-Day was our
7th mission and so we were flying missions
while the guys were approaching Paris,
broke out of Saint Lo. Oh, that was one of
my missions, Saint Lo, for the Cherbourg
Peninsula break out.
Page 6
WILSON: I can’t remember the names of
any of the other guys other than my crew
even though I was over there almost a half a
year.
NELSON: Have you remained in contact
with any of your World War II companions?
WILSON: Let me see. October 1992 I went
out to Tucson for the 50th Anniversary of the
formation of the 92nd bomb group.
NELSON: Did you ever have to help a
wounded person in combat?
WILSON: (No answer).
NELSON: What was your highlight
occurrence of your combat experience or
any other experiences you remember?
WILSON: The 3 Merseburg missions, DDay, Berlin. I think one mission was to
Munich and the Saint Lo mission. That one
at 14,000 feet into central France
NELSON: Tell us (Interruption).
NELSON: Did you write many letters
home?
WILSON: Other than that they all seemed
to run together.
WILSON: Oh, yeah.
NELSON: Did you receive many letters or
packages if so, how often?
WILSON: My wife was always writing me
and I was always answering.
NELSON: Did you receive packets?
WILSON: Yeah.
NELSON: Did most of the other men write
home and receive letters?
NELSON: Tell us what you and the other
men did to celebrate America’s traditional
family holidays such as Thanksgiving and
Christmas.
WILSON: We were over there for July
4th.but there wasn’t any big thing made of it
and my last mission was in August and I
was back by the middle of September so I
wasn’t over there for Thanksgiving or
Christmas.
NELSON: When and how did you return to
the United at end of the war?
WILSON: Yeah.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of
friendship with many or some of your
combat companions?
WILSON: On a C54, Douglas C54
transport.
NELSON: What happened when you
arrived in the United States?
�Frank R. Wilson
WILSON: We had two weeks leave. My
wife and I went to Miami, Miami Beach, we
spent a couple of weeks there.
Page 7
NELSON: What is your most difficult thing
you had to do during your period of military
service?
WILSON: Getting my wings.
NELSON: Please tell us about your military
rank and decorations especially your
campaign decorations.
WILSON: (Long pause). I've got my
ribbons. My ribbon bar has the DFC, the air
medal with three oak leaf clusters and ETO
ribbon with three bronze battle stars. The
middle one is for D-Day. One of these is for
air offensive Europe and I don’t know what
the other one. It was so similar to the air
offensive Europe that I keep getting them
mixed up but that middle one is for D-Day.
NELSON: How many missions were you
in?
WILSON: Thirty-three.
NELSON: This pertains to your return to
civilian life. How did you get along with the
men with whom you had the greatest
contact?
WILSON: You mean after the war?
NELSON: Yes, after getting back to
civilian life.
WILSON: Oh, didn’t have any trouble at
all.
NELSON: Were there anything you would
do differently if you could do them again?
WILSON: Yes. I would have stayed in
another year and then when I knew more
about the GI Bill I could have gone through
college with the rank of whatever __?__. If I
had been in a year longer, I probably would
have been a captain. I would hope so. But I
could have gone through the GI Bill in
college with the rank of 1st Lieutenant
maybe captain on that pay instead of $95 a
month.
NELSON: Is there any one thing that stands
out as you most successful achievement in
your military service?
WILSON: Well, I did my job and I survived. Wait a minute. There was one little
thing when I was getting my wings. About
the time I graduated from cadets, they had
decided there were too many 2nd Lieutenants
and they began issuingthey created a
position called Flight Officer. There was a
little blue enameled bar with a gold bar
runningit was similar to a Warrant Officer
except that it was blue and gold. We were
supposed to go in there and talk to an officer
and tell him why we thought we ought to be
a 2nd Lieutenant rather than a Flight Officer.
I went in there and the guy said, “Well,
what’s your story?” I said, “is the uniform
the same?” He said, “ Yeah.” Is the pay the
same? He said, “Yeah.” Do I rank a salute
from the enlisted men?” He said, “Yeah.”
“Are those wings the same?” He said,
“Yeah, it doesn’t make any difference.” and
when I looked at the list, I was “2nd Lieutenant.”
NELSON: How did you learn about VE
Day and what was your reaction to it?
WILSON: Oh, let’s see. VE Day was in
May. I was probably in __?__, Texas. Glad
we had defeated them.
NELSON: How did you learn about VJ Day
and what was your reaction to it?
WILSON: Let’s see. That was August.
(Long pause). I think I was maybe in __?__
New Mexico. Well, we were all glad it was
all over.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the
use of the atomic bomb when it was used
�Frank R. Wilson
against Japanese civilians in August of
1945?
WILSON: Well, we were told it would save
literally thousands and thousands of our
guys and I read later that they calculated
something in the neighborhood of two and a
half million casualties with one and a half to
two million being Japanese and the rest of
them allies. As many as possibly four
million with three million Japanese casualties and one million allied casualties. So that
makes the number of casualties that actually
occurred from the bomb and brought the war
to an end. I was all in favor of that.
Page 8
WILSON: No. The only thing is the GI Bill.
I guess that comes under the Veterans’
Administration.
NELSON: I think so. Would you like to tell
us about how your family supported you
during your military life?
WILSON: (Some indistinct discussion) I
had moral support all the way. Oh, sure.
They were all for it __?__.
NELSON: In your subsequent years, what
has this support meant to you?
WILSON: It kept our family close __?__.
NELSON: Has your opinion changed say in
the last fifty years?
NELSON: Well, Frank, is there anything
else you would like to add to it?
WILSON: No.
NELSON: When and where were you
officially discharged from the service?
WILSON: Fort Sheridan. __?__. Just on my
birthday. It was the middle of October 1945.
NELSON: Do you have any feeling about
the nations military status or policies?
WILSON: Well, regardless of the __?__
bombs (?) and its tirade against Grenada, I
was in favor of Grenada and the __?__. I’m
in favor of Desert Storm.
NELSON: What is your op8inion of the
Veterans’ Administration and did you have
any contact with it?
WILSON: Veterans’ Administration?
NELSON: Yes.
WILSON: I don’t have any contact with
them.
NELSON: You have never been in the
hospital, Veterans’ Administration Hospital?
WILSON: I knew by the time I was seven
years old, that I wanted to fly. About that
time I was reading The __?__ and we went
out to Chicago __?__ now called Midway. I
remember and occasion or one Sunday we
were out there watching the planes come in
and they were _____?_____and then all of a
sudden this streamlined of an airplaneit
was probably a DC2, but I knew that was the
wave of the future. No more __?__. No
more __?__ putting the __?__ together flaps
turned powerful enough to keep the plane in
the air. To keep the plane up and you know
there was never any doubt I was gonna try to
do and I volunteered for service. That was
the beginning (Long pause). I have no
regrets of m7 military service. It wasit
made many things that came afterwards
possible and I was able to go to college on
the GI Bill and became a teacher, science
teacher, for nearly 35 years. I think that all
came about because of my military experience.
NELSON: Well, thank you. That was a
good interview.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Frank Wilson
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Frank Wilson
Description
An account of the resource
Frank Rodney Wilson was born October 14, 1923. He enlisted in the Army Air Force in 1941 and was discharged in 1945.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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PDF Text
Text
Fred G. (Ted) NottPage 1
Fred G. (Ted) Nott
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
Edited by Margaret Lofgren
Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois
Phone 815 397 9112
�Fred G. (Ted) NottPage 2
Fred G. Nott
Also known as Ted G. Nott
Today is February the 10th, 1994. My name is Charles Nelson. I am a volunteer with Midway Village in Rockford,
Illinois, which is cooperating with the statewide effort to collect oral histories from the citizens of Illinois that participated in the momentous events surrounding World War II. We are in the office of Midway Village in Rockford,
Illinois, interviewing Mr. Ted Nott who lives at 5271 Crestdale Drive, Rockford, Illinois. Mr. Nott served in a
branch of the United States Armed Forces during World War II. We are interviewing him about his experiences in
this war.
NELSON: Ted, would you please start by introducing yourself to us?
NOTT: My name is Fred G. (Ted) Nott. I go by
the name of Ted because that has been a nickname all my life and that’s the way most people
know me.
NELSON: We would like to have the names of
each of your parents.
NOTT: Hazel. My wife’s name was Hazel. Hazel Kraft. I started a potato chip route there before the war. Then when Pearl Harbor came
along, I eventually went down and took the exam for the air corps and passed.
NELSON: What thoughts did you have about
the war before the United States became directly
involved in the conflict?
NELSON: Are there any details about your parents or your family that you would like to give?
NOTT: Well, of course, it was going o and I
had always wanted to fly ever since I was a
small boy. I wanted to get in to it. Then I got
married and thought “Well, that’s the end of
that.” So then the war came along and gave me
another opportunity to get in. Prior to the war
you needed two years of college. But I had one
year and I went down and took the exam, as I
stated earlier, and passed it. That was it.
NOTT: Well, my father and mother were divorced when I was 8 years old. We were living
in North Dakota at the time and that was quite
an unusual happening then. That was about
1928.
NELSON: How did you hear of the December
7th, 1941, bombing of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese? If so, where were you and what were you
doing at the time? What was your reaction to the
response of those around you?
NELSON: What was your life like before the
war, specifically during 1941?
NOTT: I was in Evanston at the time. I was
married. We were listening to the Chicago Bears
football game when it was suddenly announced.
Of course, it took us all by surprise. We were
stunned and that was about it. We didn’t think
much more about it, or say much about it, I
guess, until the next day.
NOTT: Alfred Nott and Rachel Nott.
NELSON: Did you have any brothers or sisters?
NOTT: Yes, I had three.
NOTT: Well, before the war, as I say, I grew up
in North Dakota during the drought and the depression. Things were pretty tough then, of
course. Eventually, I moved down to Evanston,
Illinois, and where I got married. I married an
old girlfriend from North Dakotafrom my
hometown and started a
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or
developed any feeling about what had been taking place in Europe and Asia?
NELSON: What was her name?
NOTT: Not specifically except that it looked
like we’d eventually be in the war one way or
another.
�Fred G. (Ted) NottPage 3
NELSON: When and where were you inducted?
NELSON: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
NOTT: Yes.
NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of Hitler’s speeches, ideas or actions?
NOTT: Vaguely, I remember some of them,
heard some of them and so forth. Some of the
things he said. It wasn’t stated by him.
NELSON: What events led to your entry into
military service? Were you already in service,
drafted or did you volunteer?
NOTT: January 17th, 1943
NELSON: Do you have any special memories
of this event?
NOTT: Yes, the train-ride from Chicago down
to Miami Beach. It was an awful rough ride.
There was no bunks or anything like that. It was
about a three-day trip as I recall. We just took
the backs off the seats and laid them in the aisle
and tried to sleep on those.
NELSON: How old were you?
NOTT: I was twenty-three.
NOTT: No, I volunteered as I stated earlier. I
went down to the loop and took the exam which
took roughly half a day.
NELSON: Was your response to enter military
service influenced by family and friends attitudes towards the war, the threat of national security or any other consideration?
NELSON: What happened after you were inducted?
NOTT: Well, we went down to Miami Beach
and that’s where we had our basic training.
Learned how to march, etc.
NELSON: What were you trained to do?
NOTT: No, It was strictly my own decision and
I didn’t even mention it to my wife that I was
going to go down and take the exam for the Air
Force. I didn’t make any points on that.
NOTT: I wasn’t trained for anything specific.
We were hoping to go into the cadets.
NELSON: What did you think of the training?
NELSON: When and where were you inducted?
NOTT: In Chicago, Illinois
NELSON: Do you have any special memories
of that event?
NOTT: Yes, it was kind of rough in a way because they loaded us on a train in Chicago and
probably one of the oldest trains I’d ever seen
and we were shipped all the way down to Miami
Beach for basic training. There were no bunks or
beds or anything so we just ripped the seats off
of the seats and laid them on the aisles and slept
on those the best we could.
NOTT: It didn’t bother me that much. I had
been to the University of Illinois and I had been
in ROTC down there. I was somewhat familiar
with military traininga little bit.
NELSON: Tell us about some of the other training camps you attended?
NOTT: We went to Maxwell Field where we
were tested and Nashville, Tennessee, also
where we took all the tests to determine whether
we were going to be recommended for fighter
pilots, light bombardment, or heavy bombardment.
NELSON: Do you remember the date?
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or passes?
NOTT: (No answer)
NOTT: No, not at that time.
�Fred G. (Ted) NottPage 4
NELSON: What was your military unit?
NOTT: Eventually it ended up as thewell, the
Air Force, of course. But it waseventually, I
ended up as the 414 Fighter Group.
NELSON: Based where?
NOTT: Well, whenwhen we were organized,
we ended up on Iwo Jima.
NELSON: What were your assigned duties?
NOTT: I was a fighter pilot. I flew P47s. I instructed here in the States in P40s before I went
overseas. When I got over to Iwo Jima, I flew
P47Ns and P51Ds.
NELSON: When you were sent overseas, how
did you get there?
NOTT: By Liberty Ship.
NELSON: What were you assigned to do after
arriving?
NOTT: Kind of redundant. Flying fighter
planes.
NELSON: What did you think of the nation’s
war efforts up to this point?
NOTT: I was impressed.
NELSON: If you did not immediately enter a
combat zone, where did you go before entering
combat?
status for about three months. So it had been
about four months since I’d flown and when our
planes got over to Iwo Jima, another fellow and
I wanted to get up in the air right away and so he
said, “Why don’t we go up and take a look at
Chichijima.” It’s about 100 miles north of Iwo. I
said, “That sounds like a good idea to me.” The
two of us took off. We didn’t even have our
guns loaded. No guns at all. There were guns but
not loaded so we went up to Chichijima and we
circled around about 8000 feet and nothing happened. There was just a bunch of shot up planes
down there in the air field, and so forth so he
said, “Should we go down and take a closer
look.” I said, “Let’s go.” We went right down on
the deck and we were sailing along just at tree
top level and all of a sudden these white streaks
started going over the wings and I said, “Let’s
get the hell out of here” and we did and fortunately neither one of us got hit because if we had
been we’d have been court martialed because
we’d been told to stay away from there. It was as
heavily fortified as Iwo Jima was.
NELSON: Can you list for us in order of occurrence all subsequent combat actions in which
you were involved?
NOTT: Primarily, we got over late in the war. A
good share of the fighting was done. We had
combat patrols was the biggest part of our flying
and an occasional mission up to Japan which ran
about 7 ½ or 8 hours
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change as
combat continued?
NOTT: Not particularly, no.
NOTT: Well, here in the States after I graduated
at Marianna, Florida, and got my wings we were
sent down to fighter school at Punta Gorda, Florida, and after we finished our fighter school
training there, I was made an instructor at Punta
Gorda, Florida.
NELSON: Tell us about your experience about
entering your first combat zone.
NOTT: It was quite a joke and pretty stupid because we hadn’t flown for about four months. I
had been in the hospital, incidentally, off flight
NELSON: What did you think of the war so
far?
NOTT: We wanted to win it, of course. We hated the Japanese. We wanted to beat them, of
course.
NELSON: Did you write any letters home?
NOTT: Oh, absolutely. Almost daily.
�Fred G. (Ted) NottPage 5
NELSON: Did you receive any letters or packages. If so, how often, what types of things did
you like to get in these packets?
NOTT: Well, we got letters quite often. I forget
what they call them. Those little abbreviated
NELSON: Care packages?
NOTT: No, not that. Anyway, occasionally I’d
get a package but it was difficult to get way over
there. But I heard from my wife quite often.
NELSON: Did most of the other men write or
receive letters?
NOTT: Oh, yes.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of friendship with any of your combat companions?
NOTT: Oh, yes. Many of them.
NELSON: Have you remained in contact with
any of your World War II companions?
NOTT: Yes. In some cases, yes.
NELSON: Did you ever have to help retrieve a
wounded buddy from a field of combat?
NOTT: No.
NELSON: What was your highlight occurrence
of your combat experience?
NOTT: Well actually, the one that stands out
the most was I was on the last mission of the war
and both of the bombs had been droppedthe
atom bombsand we had a code word that
would be flashed to us if Japan surrendered. If
we got that then, of course, we weren’t to go in
and fire. But we
never got it. We got up to the Empireup to the
islands and there was cloud cover and the group
commander said, “Well, there’s a front here.
We’re going to turn around and go back.” My
flight leader who was an old hand from Sicily
and Italy, he just shook his head at me and just
motioned that we go straight ahead. We went on
in and it was kind of a mistake. We went in and
shot up some shipping and so forth. Then flying
around and looking around for more to do, we
went over an air field that was nothing down
there but burned out planes and hangars and so
forth. The flight leaderelement leadercalled
the flight leader and said, “I think I see something down there”. He says, “Can I take my
wing men and go down?” The flight leader said,
“Yes. Nott and I will stay up here and fly cover
for you.” So we circled up there while they went
in and strafed the airfield. Unfortunately, the
element leader’s wing man made a mistake
when they pulled out of their 180 turn and ended up directly in back of the element leader. Of
course, when they’re being fired on they usually
under lead the lead plane and so everything that
misses him catches the plane in back of him if
he’s right in back of him. They’re supposed to
be side by each. He got hit and he was able to
get back to within about 100 miles of Iwo where
he had to bail out and then as he dropped out the
tail plane caught him and he got compound fractures of both legs. He got his chute open and
landed in the water. He couldn’t get into his dinghy because he was so mangled up. Eventually,
they got to him and fished him out of the water
but he had lost so much blood, they got him
back to Iwo and he died about two or three days
after the war ended. When we got back towe
were the last group to get back to Iwo and as we
called in for landing instructions, the tower said,
“I’m sorry, you’re going to have to circle.
There’s a live bomb on the runway that had
dropped off a Navy plane that had been hung up
and when it hit the runway, why the bomb jarred
loose and was laying out there in the runway.
You’re going to have to circle.” The flight leader
said, “Like hell we will. We’ve got fifteen
minutes of gas left, and we’re coming in.” He
and I went in and straddled the bomb, one on
each side of it. Then as I rolled up and parked
my plane, the mechanicmy mechanic jumped
on the wing and he said, “Sir, do you know the
war is over?” And I said, “Right now I could
care less.” I’d been in that cockpit for eight
hours and hadn’t gone to the bathroom in all that
time and I had to go so bad that my teeth were
floating and that was all I was interested in at the
moment.
�Fred G. (Ted) NottPage 6
NELSON: Tell us what you and the other men
did to celebrate America’s traditional family
holidays such as Thanksgiving and Christmas.
NOTT: We had whatever they could give us for
the best food they could come up with at the
time. There is quite a fallacy, as far as we were
concerned, about the Air force getting some of
the best food. When we wanted to get good
food, we’d take a bottle of booze and go over to
the Navy officers’ club or the CBs and for that
bottle of booze, we could get almost enough
steaks to feed our squadron.
NOTT: Well, I ended up as a 1st Lieutenant. I
don’t rememberwe got a couple of battle stars
and air medal. That’s basically what it was.
NELSON: How many campaigns were you in?
NOTT: Just the one from Iwo Jima.
NELSON: How did you get along with men
with whom you had the greatest contact?
NOTT: Fine. No problem.
NELSON: Are there any things you would do
differently if you could do them once again?
NELSON: When and how did you return to the
United States after the war?
NOTT: No. I would still try to get into the Air
Force and fly. I dearly loved it. I still do.
NOTT: After things had settled down, we were
still on Iwo. Then they decidedIncidentally, in
the meantime, I had found that there was a
friend of mine flying P51s in the Twenty-first
Fighter Group adjacent to us in another airfield
on the island. I always wanted to fly a P51. I got
myself transferred over there so I could fly with
him. I did get to fly the 51s and I enjoyed it very
much. It was a great plane to fly. Then the powers to be decided that my old 414 Fighter Group
which flew P47s was to transfer down to Clark
Field in the Philippines. They didn’t have
enough pilotssome of the other P51 pilots
were going to be transferred down there, too, but
they had no P47 experience so they pulled me
back into the 4l4 to fly down to Clark Field. So
then we flew down there eventually.
NELSON: What is the most difficult thing you
had to do during your period of military service?
NELSON: What happened when you arrived in
the United States?
NOTT: Well, nothing much really. We got back
to San Francisco eventually. Incidentally, I came
back on a hospital ship and it took us 21 days
from Manila to Seattle. When we got there everything had quieted down and nobody paid any
attention to us. There was no parade or anything
like that at all.
NELSON: Please tell us about you military rank
and your decorations, especially you campaign
decorations.
NOTT: Getting through cadets, without a doubt.
We had to go through primary basic and advanced and they were washing guys out right
and left. It was a tough situation. Everything was
spit and polish. It was just a rough go. I
wouldn’t want to do it again on a bet but I
wouldn’t have missed it for anything.
NELSON: Is there any one thing that stands out
as your most successful achievement in the military service?
NOTT: Well, becoming a fighter pilot as far as I
was concerned was exactly what I wanted to
achieve. And I got that.
NELSON: How did you learn about VE Day
and what was your reaction to it?
NOTT: We were on Iwo when the word came
that the Japanese had surrendered. Oh, VE Day.
That’s Europe.
NELSON: Yes.
NOTT: It was jubilation. The war in Europe
was over. That was it. I had always wanted to go
to Europe rather than the pacific but I had no
control over that.
�Fred G. (Ted) NottPage 7
NELSON: What about VJ Day?
NOTT: VJ Day we were on Iwo Jima when the
word was flashed that the war was over. That
was the end of World War II.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the use of
the atomic bomb when it was used against Japanese civilians in August of 1945?
NOTT: I have a definite opinion on that. It is
this: I have always thought that we could have
forewarned the Japanese and told them that on
such and such a day at so many miles off of the
coast at a certain point there would be a demonstration and be prepared for it. Then detonate an
atomic bomb there and show them that this is
what’s going to happen to them if they don’t
capitulate. I would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives with the two bombs that we
dropped on civilians but as I say, on the other
hand, if we had had to invade Japan we would
have lost an awful lot of our people, too. So it’s
debatable.
NELSON: When and where were you officially
discharged from service?
NOTT: Fort Sheridan, Illinois.
NELSON: When?
NOTT: Yes, I do. I get medical attention from
the Veterans’ Administration because I have a
disability.
NELSON: What is your opinion of the VA if
you have had any contact with it?
NOTT: As far as the Veterans’ Administration
that I go to as far as medical service, I can’t say
enough about them that’s good. They’re tremendous. Tremendous people.
NELSON: Would you like to tell us about how
your family supported you during your military
life?
NOTT: Well, I was married when I went in the
service and after I got through basic and got in
cadets, my wife joined me and she was with me
pretty much along the way until I went overseas.
NELSON: Over the subsequent years, what has
this support meant to you?
NOTT: Well, it was great to know that she supported me. It was a tough time for her, too, because she had to travel, there wasn’t much money and she developed something when she was
down south. Something that was almost like colitis, so she was kind of miserable on the way
but it was a great pleasure having her with me.
NOTT: In 1946.
NELSON: Did you have a disability rating or
pension?
NOTT: Yes, I did.
NELSON: Do you have any opinions or feelings about our nation’s military status or its policies?
NOTT: No. I think it’s important that we maintain a strong force to protect ourselves. I think
that that was to our benefit when we forced Russia to more or less draw back and tear down the
Berlin Wall and so forth.
NELSON: Do you have any contact with the
Veterans’ Administration?
NELSON: Thank you, Ted. Is there anything
else you would like to add to this interview?
NOTT: No. I appreciate the chance to be interviewed. It was nice.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
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Midway Village Museum
Publisher
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Midway Village Museum
Date
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1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Charles Nelson
Interviewee
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Fred G. (Ted) Nott
Location
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Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
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Title
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Fred G. (Ted) Nott
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
February 10, 1994
Description
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Born in 1920, Fred Nott (also known as Ted Nott), joined the Air Force from 1943 to 1946. He died May 13, 2000.
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
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Title
A name given to the resource
State Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts of East State Street and West State Street in Rockford, Illinois. The majority of views cover the era of 1900-1930.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1990
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
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Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
4.25" x 5.75"
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
G. A. R. Memorial Hall
Description
An account of the resource
This card is in a booklet stamped "Souvenir Letter: Views of Rockford, Ill." This depicts Memorial Hall with its four-columned portico.
Publisher
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Wilson Bros. Co. Printers
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1910
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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jpeg
Identifier
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85.109(I).923 2 of 12
Type
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Still Image
G. A. R. Memorial Hall
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
West State Street
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
State Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts of East State Street and West State Street in Rockford, Illinois. The majority of views cover the era of 1900-1930.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1990
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
4.25" x 5.75"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
General View of Fair Grounds Park
Description
An account of the resource
This card is in a booklet stamped "Souvenir Letter: Views of Rockford, Ill." The Fair Grounds are intersected by roadways and a stream with a bridge.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Wilson Bros. Co. Printers
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1910
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
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jpeg
Identifier
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85.109(I).923 12 of 12
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Fair Grounds Park
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
West State Street
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d1fde0f1c7b76f215f04512455e3500f
PDF Text
Text
Glen BarnesPage 0
GLEN BARNES
Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois
Phone 815 397 9112
�Glen BarnesPage 1
Glen Barnes
My name is Charles Nelson. I am a volunteer with
the Midway Village & Museum Center in
Rockford, Illinois, which is cooperating with the
statewide effort to collect oral histories from
Illinois citizens that participated in the momentous
events surrounding World War II. We are in the
office of Midway Village & Museum Center in
Rockford, Illinois, interviewing Mr. Glen Barnes.
Mr. Barnes served in the branch of the United
States Armed Forces during World War II. We are
interviewing him about his experiences in that war.
Glen would you please give us your full name,
place and date of birth. We would also like to have
the names of each one of you parents.
GLEN: I am Glen Barnes. I was born in Spokane,
Washington, August 1913. My father was James
Barnes. My mother was Bertha Barnes. They
were—had come to the west from North Carolina
and Tennessee several years before I was born in
Spokane.
CHARLES: Are there any details about your
parents or you family that you would like to give
besides this?
were going to have to get into it. I had a lot of
admiration for the English, the way they were
performing. I got some real bad odds and, of
course, when the Japanese did their little number
that made me fairly anxious to get going.
CHARLES: How did you hear of the December
7, 1941, bombing of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese?
Where were you and what were you doing at the
time and what was your reaction and response to
those around you?
GLEN: Well I was in a logging camp up in
Clearwater. It was on a Sunday afternoon as I
recall. About eleven o’clock. I was on an upper
bunk. I had a little Emerson radio which was the
only radio in camp. I heard the news and I was
dumb founded. And it just shocked the whole—we
had about 200 men in the camp and it was a real
shock.
CHARLES: Had you formed any prior opinion or
developed any feeling about what was taking place
in Europe or Asia?
GLEN: Well, my oldest brother, Matt,—there
were six of us boys in the family and two—two
sisters. My oldest brother served in World War I in
France. He was in the Medical Corps over there
and he had some real experiences to tell. Of
course, it was a lot different when we finally got in
there, in 1942.
GLEN: Well, I was very concerned about what
would happen if Hitler and Mussolini was to take
over. I thought it would be pretty rough for the
United States.
CHARLES: The next is entering the military.
What was life like for you before the war and—
specifically during 1941?
GLEN: Yes. I read those. I took Time magazine
and followed it pretty closely.
GLEN: Well, at that time I graduated from high
school in 1933. I got a job up in Idaho in a logging
camp washing dishes and after that I finally wound
up in the Clearwater National Forest, driving truck
and finally driving a cat skidding logs and I really
enjoyed that. I remember when I first heard—
maybe I’m getting ahead of myself.
CHARLES: What thoughts did you have about
the war before the United States became directly
involved in the conflict?
GLEN: Well, I don’t recall. I know I had some
definite thoughts about Hitler and the way he was
taking over Europe and I thought eventually we
CHARLES: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
CHARLES: What events led to your entry into
military service? Were you already in service,
drafted or did you volunteer?
GLEN: Well, my draft number was coming up at
the time I was a “cat” driver for [?] Forest,
Clearwater Timber and as my number was coming
up I decided to jump in and get it over with so I
volunteered. And I was inducted in Spokane; I
think it was in March, the 23rd.
CHARLES: Did you have any special memories
of this event? About the induction?
GLEN: Oh, not really. It was quite simple. It
didn’t take very long. There was about six of us
�Glen BarnesPage 1
and they immediately put us on a train and we
went to Fort Lewis, Washington, for the formal
induction.
CHARLES: How old were you?
GLEN: Well, I got to think. I was 32 or 33 I guess
at the time.
CHARLES: What happened after you were
inducted?
GLEN: Well, we had a week of hell at Fort Lewis.
They were under war time restrictions over there.
They had blackouts. It was on the coast. And it
seemed like everybody was afraid of the Japanese
were going to take over and they even had—Well,
it was pretty strict around there. That’s a very
rainy cold climate around Seattle there especially
in March.
CHARLES: Did you take your basic training in
Fort Lewis?
GLEN: No. After a week of shots and KP and
they sent me down to Logan’s Field for the Army
Air Corps.
CHARLES: What state was that in?
GLEN: That was in Texas. At Dallas
CHARLES: What were you trained to do?
GLEN: Aircraft mechanic
CHARLES: What did you think of the training?
GLEN: Well, it was pretty rough. It was hard. But
it was very thorough.
CHARLES: Tell us about any other training
camps you attended.
CHARLES: Did you have any leaves or passes?
GLEN: I didn’t get a leave until we finally got to
Alfredo, Washington, on our first phase training
and at that time my father passed away in Spokane
so I was given a two week leave at that time.
CHARLES: What do you recall of this period
about the places you were stationed, the friends
you made and your association with civilians?
GLEN: Well, we had a real nice time in Texas. I
got acquainted with a gentleman or a fellow
soldier from Shawnee, Oklahoma. He had a car
and we went up there once or twice to visit his
family and they were very hospitable and treated
me just like a family member. No. I had some very
good experiences with civilians.
CHARLES: Where did you go after completing
your basic military training? This refers to the
conflict over seas.
GLEN: The final—after Alfredo was first phase
then we went to Rapid City for second phase. Then
over to Utah for third phase training; and from
there to Grand Island, Nebraska, and then we were
shipped overseas. We went to Presque Isle, Maine,
overnight. Then we went to Goose Bay, Labrador.
We had our own crew at that time and our own
airplane and we got to Goose Bay at 7:30 in the
evening. This was in January. It was really cold.
At 11:30 that night, we had a favorable tail wind
so they sent us off for North Ireland at 11:30. We
arrived at North Ireland about 7:00 the next
morning and landed at a place called Nuts Corners
about 12 miles out of Belfast and we were there
for two or three days. Then we were sent to our
field at Glatten. We got there about the 20th of
January, I guess.
CHARLES: What group were you assigned to?
GLEN: Quite a few of them. I went from there—
from Dallas—I went to Boeing at Seattle on B-17s
to get better equipped to work on 17s on the line
and from the Boeing factory, I went to Boise,
Idaho, on the line. From there I went to Camp
Luna, Las Vegas, New Mexico. From there to
Gulfport, Mississippi, to a “tech” school on cargo
planes. Then I went to the Ford factory in
Dearborn, Michigan on R-2800 engines. Then to
Jefferson Barracks for overseas training. Then my
order came through of gunnery school at
Arlington, Texas, and from then on I was in the
Air Corps as a flying personnel.
GLEN: 457 Bomber Group.
CHARLES: What squadron?
GLEN: 749th.
CHARLES: And what [were] your duties?
GLEN: I was originally trained for a flight
engineer on a B-17 but we already had a flight
engineer and so they put me in the waist. Our ball
gunner seemed to be having a lot of trouble in
�Glen BarnesPage 2
getting used to the position so the pilot asked me if
I would take over the ball for a while until a guy
by the name of Kegel got straightened out. So I
flew in the [?] for about 13 or 14 missions.
CHARLES: What did you think of the nation’s
war efforts up to this point?
GLEN: It was pretty damn confusing, really. We
were able to hear the German propaganda there in
England. In fact, about the second night after we
arrived we listened to Lord Haw-Haw and he was
telling us all about what was happening at home
with our girlfriends and wives and everything else.
It was a little disturbing to say the least. He
infuriated the English, Haw-Haw did. At one point
he called the Queen fat ass little bastard and my
God that tore them. I mean they was ready to hang
him if they could get a hold of him and I guess
maybe they did, when they did catch him. But the
English were a beautiful people. They treated us
very nicely.
CHARLES: Tell us about your experience of
entering your first combat zone.
GLEN: Well, when we flew from Nuts Corner
down to Glatten they sent a captain up there who
had had several missions and he made it sound
pretty grim. He said you got to load you guns and
fly under combat conditions down to Glatten. So
that kind of put a chill on things, so we did that.
And then it was a month before we ever made a
mission. We did a lot of training flights and we
saw some of the crews would land there. Like we
were in the Pollbrook—I’ve got the map here.
bad. The longest mission we were supposed to go
to Berlin and they sent us on over on a secondary
target to Stettin in Poland. That was eleven hours.
CHARLES: In your missions, were there any
casualties involved in your plane?
GLEN: The pilot and co-pilot got hit by flak. Not
bad. One on the hand. The co-pilot was hit on the
hand and the pilot—I think he got a piece on the
cheek. It wasn’t serious though.
CHARLES: And how were they treated?
GLEN: They were brought back to the—come
back to the base and they took them to the hospital
and patched them up and they had a day or two off
and then they were back flying again.
CHARLES: What did you think of the war so far?
GLEN: It depended on the kind of mission we
had. If it was an easy mission, it wasn’t too bad.
We’d go home and have a few beers down at the
Crown [Wool Pack] which was a pub on the Great
North Road close to where we were stationed and
we’d forget all of our problems. I was fortunate
enough to get acquainted with a girlfriend over
there and we had some very nice times. I didn’t
worry about the damn war. If we was going to get
it we was going to get it. That is the way it was
and enjoy life the best we could.
CHARLES: Did you write many letters home?
GLEN: Yes, I wrote quite regularly.
CHARLES: Can you list for us, in order of
occurrence, all subsequent combat action in which
you were involved?
CHARLES: Did you receive many letters and/or
packages? If so, how often—what type of things
did you receive in your packages?
GLEN: Well, after several training missions on
the 22nd of February, 1944, we went to Muenster
to bomb a [?] plant. There were very few fighters.
Moderate flak. That wasn’t a very tough mission.
Then the next one was on the 24th of February we
went to Schweinfurt. We lost an engine going in
and had contact with a 109 but a P-38 came to our
rescue and we made it home OK. Then things were
pretty calm until the 1st of March when they
started sending us to Berlin. I went to Berlin three
times pretty close together and on the 7th mission
we went to Augsburg. That was a long mission—
nine hours and 35 minutes. There were a lot of
fighters. Then we started getting a few of the no
missions across the channel which weren’t too
GLEN: I know I made a request to my brother
who was a fireman for Potlatch back in Idaho in
the logging camp and asked him if he would have
the blacksmith make us some good knives. We
didn’t have any decent knives. So the logging
superintendent got busy and within about three
weeks we had ten beautiful knives. They made
them out of—I don’t know what kind of steel it
was but it was real nice. They sent them over to us.
We got packages of food, cookies, clothes and
things for the girlfriend.
CHARLES: Did most of the other men write and
receive letters?
�Glen BarnesPage 3
GLEN: Oh, I think quite a few of them did. I
know I was pretty well taken care of in that regard.
CHARLES: Did you forge close bonds or
friendships with many of your combat
companions?
GLEN: Our crew was very close. We had a real
good crew. They were all volunteers. Every one of
them.
CHARLES: Have you remained in contact with
any of your World War II companions?
GLEN: Not really. They’re scattered out all over.
The Bombardier—he’s down in Florida—in bad
shape. He’s had several heart operations and he’s
really the only one that I’ve had contact with.
CHARLES: Prior to the end of the war were you
aware of any civilian concentration camps existed.
If so, please explain how you learned about them
and how much you knew about at that time
GLEN: You mean in our country?
CHARLES: No. In Germany.
GLEN: Oh, yeah. We were informed about that.
In fact several of our missions we were
deliberately instructed to fly over the concentration
camp to give the POWs a morale lift. Of course,
we were flying high—they could hear us but
couldn’t see us. I guess that was a morale builder.
CHARLES: What was your high light occurrence
of your combat experience?
GLEN: The last. We had a milk run for the last
mission and that was the one I really kissed the
ground when we got back.
GLEN: We weren’t—when we were overseas, the
only holiday we had was 4th of July—we were
there 4th of July and there was a lot of gun fire.
We had 45s and we did a lot of shooting up in the
air and that was about it.
CHARLES: When and how did you return to the
United States after the end of the war?
GLEN: We went up to the Clyde Anchorage and
boarded the New Amsterdam and sailed back on
the New Amsterdam.
CHARLES: What happened when you arrived in
the United States?
GLEN: Well we stayed overnight. We got into
New York about 4:00 in the afternoon. We had a
lot of German prisoners on board who—they
thought they would find New York all bombed
because the propaganda had told them that the
Luftwaffe had taken care of New York so they
were astonished, of course, and we had to stay on
board all night. I remember one GI said if they let
him go he could be home, running at top speed,
before he got out of breath. He lived that close to
where we docked but they wouldn’t let anyone off.
And the next morning we went to Camp Shanks, I
think it was and were treated to a nice meal and
put on trains and went home then.
CHARLES: Please tell us about your military
rank and your decorations, especially your
campaign decorations.
GLEN: I was made Staff Sergeant. Of course,
promotions were pretty slow. I was supposed to
get Tech. Sergeant being an engineer at the last but
that never came through. I got the DFC
(Distinguished Flying Cross) an air medal with
three clusters and on the campaign that went with
it. I don’t know what you call those.
CHARLES: Do you remember where you went?
GLEN: Yeah. I’ve got it here someplace. It was
just across the channel on [?] I think Shadow
Down [?] or something like that.
CHARLES: Shannon dun. That’s in France.
GLEN: Yeah.
CHARLES: OK. Tell us what you and the other
men did to celebrate America’s traditional family
holidays such as Thanksgiving and Christmas.
CHARLES: This is return to civilian life. How
did you get along with the member with whom
you had the greatest contact?
GLEN: I got along OK. I was nervous as a cat. I
about drove my mother nuts. Couldn’t sit still. I
was a nervous wreck for quite a while but finally
got calmed down.
CHARLES: Were there any things you would do
differently if you could do them once again?
�Glen BarnesPage 4
GLEN: Yes, I probably would. After I got back,
they sent me to Chanute Field and I had to go back
up to Boeing again on the B-29 on engine change.
They wanted engine change instructors. So the
civilian head down there that was in charge of the
school wanted me to stick around and take my test
and stay there. That was a big mistake because I
could have made a lot more money than I did it I’d
just stayed there but I wanted out as fast as I could
so I got out.
CHARLES: Is there any one thing that stands out
as your most successful achievement in the
military service.
GLEN: Well, I think we—our crew conducted
ourselves well and we did what was asked of us
and that’s about it, I guess. I don’t know what else
we could have done.
CHARLES: How did you learn about V- Day and
what was you reaction to it?
GLEN: It was about the same. I really can’t recall
too much about it. I had met my wife at this time.
Hadn’t gotten married or anything but she was —
worked in the telegraph office in Decatur and so
we celebrated the usual.
CHARLES: What was you opinion of the use of
the atomic bomb when it was used against
Japanese civilians in August of 1945?
GLEN: I was real glad that it was used because of
the fanaticism of the Japanese soldiers who
considered being was the greatest honor is about
the only thing that could be done otherwise we
would have lost a lot of men over there.
CHARLES: Has that opinion changed over the
last fifty years? If so, how?
GLEN: No, I don’t think so. I just thank God that
we had Harry Truman there with the guts enough
to go ahead and do that.
CHARLES: When and where were you officially
discharged from service?
GLEN: I was at Chanute Field and it was on
October the 6th, 1945, and my wife’s birthday.
CHARLES: Do you receive a disability rating or
pension?
GLEN: No.
CHARLES: Do you have any opinions or feelings
about our nation— (End of side one. There is
nothing more on this tape)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
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Midway Village Museum
Publisher
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Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Glen Barnes
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Glen Barnes
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 5, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born August 1913, Glen Barnes served in the Air Force from 1941 to 1945 as a Ball Gunner. He died November 2, 2013.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
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PDF Text
Text
Glen Peacock
Transcribed by Margaret Lofgren
For Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
�Glen Peacock
U. S. Army Engineer
Today is March 26th, 2004. My name is Margaret Lofgren. I am a volunteer with Midway Village and Museum Center which is cooperating
with the statewide effort to collect oral histories
from Illinois citizens that participated in events
surrounding World War II. Today we are in the
office of the Midway Village interviewing Glen
Peacock who was in the engineers of the United
States Armed Forces during World War II.
LOFGREN: Would you please give us your
first name, your complete name?
PEACOCK: My name is Glen Peacock.
LOFGREN: What was the place of your birth
and date of your birth?
PEACOCK: I was born in Rockford, Illinois,
November 25th, 1919.
LOFGREN: We would like to have the names
of each of your parents including your mother’s
maiden name.
PEACOCK: My mother’s maiden name was
Mary Wells. My dad’s name was Charles W.
Peacock.
LOFGREN: Do you have any brothers or sisters?
He worked in a factoryBurson Knitting factory for one week and he couldn’t stand being inside so he quit and he went to work for Parson’s
Lumber Company on North Madison Street. He
worked there for 25 years and he decided he
wanted to be in the lumber business himself. In
1940 he bought the Perryville Lumber Company
and we had that for 8 years, sold it in 1948.
LOFGREN: What was life like for you before
the war and specifically before 1941?
PEACOCK: My life before the war started was
very enjoyable. I loved to be outdoors, I was an
avid hunter and fisherman. In 1941 I had to sign
up for the draft and I was always watching for
my number to come up. That was always on my
mind.
LOFGREN: Had you graduated from school by
then?
PEACOCK: Yes I graduated from Central High
School in 1938.
LOFGREN: What thoughts had you had about
the war before the United States became directly
involved in the conflict? Were you aware of
what was going on in Europe?
PEACOCK: I had a brother and a sister, both
deceased at this time.
PEACOCK: I really didn’t pay much attention
to it although I knew __?__ was happening. I
wasn’t smart enough to be concerned enough to
think what was going to happen.
LOFGREN: Are there any details about your
parents or your family that you would like to
give? Perhaps their place of birth or something
like that or what they did?
LOFGREN: Did you hear the 1941 radio announcement about the bombing of Pearl Harbor
by the Japanese? If so, where were you and what
were you doing at the time?
PEACOCK: My mother was born in Canandaigua, New York. My dad was born right here
in Winnebago County near Perryville, Illinois,
which is just outside of Cherry Valley.
PEACOCK: Yes, I remember that day very
well. December 7th, 1941, was a Sunday and I
was at State and Madison Recreation playing
pool. They had a radio on. Of course, everybody
there heard it and things really kind of quieted
down and you can imagine what the noise was in
a pool hall. It got real calm and serious.
LOFGREN: What was your business?
PEACOCK: My dad worked on the farms when
he was younger and he decided to come to town.
�LOFGREN: What was your reaction and the
response of those around you?
I was sent out to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri,
where I had my basic training.
PEACOCK: The response of other people
around me was kind of sadness and wondering
what’s going to happen now. Of course, my
thought was having had a draft number and now
how long do I have before I’m going to be
called.
LOFGREN: How old were you?
LOFGREN: Have you formed any prior opinion to or developed any feeling about what had
been taking place in Europe or Asia?
PEACOCK: I had just had my 22nd birthday in
November.
LOFGREN: And you said you were sent to
Missouri?
PEACOCK: Yes, Fort Leonard Wood.
LOFGREN: And that was for basic training?
PEACOCK: Like I said before, I wasn’t paying
much attention to it. I didn’t have any opinion as
to what was going on although I knew the Germans were pretty bad people at the time.
LOFGREN: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
PEACOCK: I can’t recall at this time. If I did,
it probably wasn’t good.
LOFGREN: Did you have knowledge of Hitler’s speeches, ideas or actions?
PEACOCK: No, I didn’t. I didn’t pay any attention to that I guess.
PEACOCK: Right. We were told at that time
after our basic training was finished that we
were the first troops in the Army to get our 13
weeks basic training and had it done in 8 weeks.
They had it all planned what we were going to
do.
LOFGREN: What were you trained to do?
PEACOCK: We had all kinds of training for a
lot of infantry stuff. We had to qualify with the
rifle and we had a lot of bridge building and
road work and that was our main goal for the
first year.
LOFGREN: What did you think of the training?
LOFGREN: What events led you to your entry
to the military service? Were you drafted?
PEACOCK: Yes, I was drafted and at the time I
was called up, my dad had just had a stroke and
had been in an auto accident and he was bedridden and couldn’t take care of his business at the
lumber yard so I tried to get a deferment. They
said you can have one week to get your things in
order and then you’re gone.
LOFGREN: While you are waiting you can
look over some of these. There are some things
that This will be about basic training. Do you
have any When and where were you inducted?
PEACOCK: I was inducted at Camp Grant,
Illinois. It was in January of ’42 and in February
PEACOCK: It was real tough at first when you
had to get in the water to build these trestle
bridges.
LOFGREN: Did anything special happen during your basic training?
PEACOCK: I can’t recall anything special that
happened. It was tough work, long hours,
LOFGREN: Tell us about any other training
camps you attended.
PEACOCK: After my first year in the service, I
was on the Elkan Highway when I got [carried]
out and sent back to Fort Lewis, Washington
where I helped organize another combat engineer unit and that was not much easier training
in Washington. The territory was nicer although
�there was a little a lot of rain. But like they say
there in Washington, it can rain all day and you
don’t get wet.
LOFGREN: What do you recall of this period,
the places where you were stationed other than
what you already mentioned?
PEACOCK: Fort Lewis was a good place to be
because if you could get a pass to go into town
you could go to different places, Tacoma, Washington, or Olympia, Washington, just a short
distance away. The people were very good to us
there.
LOFGREN: Can you tell us something about
the friends you made?
PEACOCK: The friends I made were life long
friends. Some of them I still have. Some of the
girls were okay too there in Washington.
LOFGREN: Were there any associations with
civilians like being invited to dinner or something like that?
PEACOCK: There was one family in Spokane,
Washington, no, not Spokane, Seattle, that invited another buddy and I to their house for
Christmas dinner and that was a very wonderful
experience,
PEACOCK: Like I said before we went, after
my first basic training we were shipped to Alaska. We got to Alaska on April, 22nd and on June
1st we left the little town of Skagway, Alaska.
We took a train fifty miles to a little village
called __?__ We got off the train and we had to
start walking following a trail through timber
and tundra to where we picked at the Tazman(?)
River [possibly Teslin?]. Then we were taken to
a little village down the river called __?__,
That’s where we had a base camp
LOFGREN: When were you sent overseas and
how did you get there?
PEACOCK: I was sent overseas, I think that
was in October of 1944. We went over in a convoy on a big re-done luxury liner. It was like
3000 troops on this ship and we left New York
on our own and we rendezvoused out in the
ocean somewhere and we went the rest of the
way in a convoy in November. It took almost 30
days to go across the ocean.
LOFGREN: What were you assigned to do after arriving?
PEACOCK: After arriving there we were assigned houses to live in and then we hadwe
did a little more training keeping in shape and
taking marches and stuff there in Western
__?__, England.
LOFGREN: What was your military unit?
LOFGREN: When did you go to the mainland?
PEACOCK: The military unit was the Corps of
Engineers. My first unit was called General Service Engineers where we built the Alaskan
highway and then the next year it was the Combat Engineer. I didn’t get to stay with them,
thank goodness, because they shipped out and
when they were overseas, they had to get off the
boat fighting. I was cadred to another camp in
Camp Boone, Texas, where they were organizing another Combat Engineering Unit.
LOFGREN: Where did you go after completing
your basic military training? If you were not sent
overseas immediately following basic training
when did you finally leave the United States?
PEACOCK: We left England on New Year’s
Eve day of 1945, went across the channel and
we got off the boat. One scary thing there was
going across the channel, we were out in the
middle of the channel, we had to stop dead still
in the water while a hospital ship was going
from France to England. It was all lit up like a
Christmas tree. It had a big red cross on the side
and it was painted white and we had to stay very
still until it got out of the way because of submarines from the Germans. Then we got underway
again and we finally got to Cherbourg where we
got off the boat and went up to a base camp on
top of the hill in France.
�LOFGREN: What did you think about our nation’s war effort up to this point?
PEACOCK: Well that was a tough one to do
because they were having a hard time with the
Germans. Of course, with the winter being on it
was all more hardships.
LOFGREN: If you did not immediately enter a
combat zone where did you go before entering
combat? I guess you answered that. You were in
England. Tell us about your experience about
your entering your first combat zone.
PEACOCK: There isn’t anytime whereI was
very lucky. I never saw any combat. The only
time I was near a combat zone was when I was
on reconnaissance trip looking for things to do
for our engineers like roadwork, and bridges to
be repaired and stuff. I came upon some other
engineers that were fixing a railroad that the
Germans had dropped on to this road to block it.
I was askingI could hear shelling going on in
the distance and I asked one of the troops there
how far we were from the front lines. He pointed
out to a house across the field from where we
were standing. He said, “You see them fellows
walking around down there? Them are the Germans right there.” It was about a half mile away.
He said, “That’s the front lines.” That is the
closest I ever got.
truck with its brakes set. This fellow hit that load
so hard it moved it five feet. He killed himself
pinned in his truck. That’s the only two casualties I can recall.
LOFGREN: How were they treated? Were they
both killed?
PEACOCK: The one that lost his foot, he survived okay but the one in the truck, he was dead
instantly.
LOFGREN: The one that lost his foot, how
were the hospital facilities? Do you know anything about that?
PEACOCK: I don’t know anything about that.
He was in a different company but in the same
outfit he was in a different company. I just
heard about him and I don’t know how he ever
made out.
LOFGREN: Did your mental attitude change as
combat continued?
PEACOCK: Well we all got to be more serious
as we heard about these incidents and we would
pay more attention about what we were doing
and looking out for our own well being now.
LOFGREN: Did you write many letters home?
LOFGREN: Taking these one at a time in
chronological order please tell us in full detail, if
possible, about the approximate number and
types of casualties.
PEACOCK: I wrote as often as I could. Sometimes we didn’t have very much time to write
and I received many letters from home which
was a big moral booster.
PEACOCK: Well I can only recall two casualties in my outfit. One was a fellow who was out
in the field and he was kind of careless where he
was walking and he stepped on a anti-personal
mine and he lost a foot. Another casualty was
we were working on a bridge over the Rhine
River, the Remagen Bridge. One of the truck
drivers that was hauling gravel on the approach
road, he had been hauling all night. The lieutenant said he had to go back and get one more load
of gravel and it made him mad and he went racing through the company area and he drove his
truck into a bigwe call it tank retriever unit. It
had a General Sherman tank on a trailer and this
LOFGREN: Were you married at the time?
PEACOCK: No I wasn’t married. I didn’t have
a girlfriend yet? I left her behind.
LOFGREN: Did you receive many letters?
How often and did you receive packages?
PEACOCK: One interesting thing about a
package I receivedWhen I left home being 22
years old and, of course, I had been smoking for
8 or 9 years and I didn’t think my folks knew
about it. My first package I received overseas,
there was candy bars and cigarettes. That sur-
�prised me because I didn’t know they knew I
smoked.
LOFGREN: Did most of the other men write
and receive letters from home?
PEACOCK: Yes most of them did. Most of
them wrote like everyday if they could. They all
received letters and packages, too. Mail was
pretty good coming over there.
LOFGREN: Have you remained in contact with
any of your World War II companions?
PEACOCK: I have up until now. There are so
many of them passing away. Of the 3 different
units I was in, we all had reunions pretty near
every year and for the last 40 years we’ve been
having reunions. They’re getting so few now
that no one wants to come any more. The friends
are about all gone.
LOFGREN: During your combat duty, did you
ever capture any prisoners?
PEACOCK: I never had any combat experience, although I did have 2 German prisoners
that gave up to me one time when we were coming back to camp. Two old German couples
came out on the road waving their arms, saw
that we were Americans and they stopped us and
they pointed to their barn over in the field there
and they said, “Bosh, bosh.(?). So we started to
go over to this barn. As we did these two Germans walked out with their arms over their head
carrying their rifles and they gave up to us. Then
we had to take them to our battalion headquarters. They questioned them for a little bit and
then they decided they had to get rid of them
because we had nowhere to keep them. So then
they had to take them to a POW camp which
was some distance away. That was another experience. We had to take them at night and we
was close enough to a combat zone that we had
to drive “blackout” and that was an experience.
Not knowing where we were going or couldn’t
see where we were going. We finally got rid of
them. Then we had to find our way back to our
own camp.
LOFGREN: Prior to the end of the war were
you aware that any civilian concentration camps
existed? If so, please explain how you learned
about and how much you knew at that time.
Peacock: We really didn’t know about any concentration camps so I can’t say anything about
how they were or what they were like.
Lofgren: Did you help liberate any prison
camps at the end of the war?
Peacock: No, I had no help in doing that.
Lofgren: What was the highlight occurrence of
your combat experience?
Peacock: There again, I didn’t have any combat
experience so not much highlight there.
Lofgren: Tell us what you and the other men
did to celebrate America’s traditional holidays
such as Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Peacock: I remember one Thanksgiving, we
were going to have chicken for dinner on Sunday and we got this shipment of chickens and
they were all frozen. They were cleaned but they
weren’t drawn so I helped the cooks draw these
chickens for Sunday dinner.
Lofgren: When or how did you return to the U.
S. after the end of the war?
Peacock: When the war was over I finally had
enough points so I could come home and I went
to one of the camps where they were assembling
enough troops to load up the boat. I was put in
charge of another platoon and I remember this
one fellow, he would rather have stayed there
than go home. He hated to get back on the boat.
He got seasick just going up the gangplank to
get on the boat. He was sick all the way home.
Lofgren: What happened when you arrived in
the U.S.?
Peacock: We got off the boat in New York and I
think it was the Red Cross or the USO. Somebody met us there and they led us right into a big
cafeteria type thing and give us a steak dinner.
�That was a very good meal. I remember that
plainly.
Lofgren: Tell us about your military rank and
your decorations especially any campaign decorations that you might have received.
Peacock: I hadn’t been in no combat. I didn’t
get any medals for that. We did get a citation for
being in the Alaska Highway. I got a ribbon for
that. My military rank, I got up to be a Staff Sergeant.
Lofgren: How did you learn about VE Day?
Peacock: We heard about VE DayWe were
working on a road doing repairs to a road and
the Jeep came down the road and they were delivering the Stars and Stripes, our newspaper,
and they said, “The war is over. The war is
over.” We thought they were all drunk and we
didn’t pay much attention to it until we got back
to camp that night and we had the officially
news.
Lofgren: How did you learn about VJ Day?
Lofgren: How did you get along with men with
whom you had the greatest contact?
Peacock: I got along good with my men. In fact,
that was one of my downfalls. I was too good to
them. The company commanders were going to
break me down to a private again because I was
too lenient on my men.
Lofgren: If there were things that you would do
differently, what would they be? Be not so lenient?
Peacock: I’d be a little tougher on the guys and
which is hard to do because they expect you to
have your eyes on the guys all the time. I’d have
been a little stricter.
Peacock: I can’t recall where I was to hear
about VJ Day.
Lofgren: What was your opinion of the use of
the atomic bomb when it was used against the
Japanese civilians in August of 1945?
Peacock: Well, that was a terrible think I guess
but it sure put an end to the war in a hurry.
Lofgren: Has that opinion changed over the last
50 years?
Peacock: No, I’d do it again, I guess, if things
got bad enough and we may have to do it the
way things go now.
Lofgren: What was the most difficult thing you
had to do during your period of military service?
Lofgren: Do you have any opinions about our
national military status or its policies?
Peacock: I guess the most difficult thing in the
early part of my service was being on the Alaskan Highway. That first winter, we were just
trying to stay warm. When it got down to 72º
below zero it was tough to stay warm. That was
one of the toughest things to do.
Peacock: I have no great opinion about it other
than we have to have it and I think they are a
little lax in some of the waysespecially the Air
Force, the way they’re treating the women there.
That’s got to be corrected.
Lofgren: Is there any one thing that stands out
as your most successful achievement in your
military service?
Peacock: I guess just be made aI wasn’t in the
army very long and I was already a Buck Sergeant and after coming back from Alaska, I went
right to a Staff Sergeant and that was my highest
ranking.
Lofgren: Do you have any contact with the Veterans’ Administration?
Peacock: No I do not.
Lofgren: How did your family support during
your military life?
Peacock: They were all good to me. All they
could do was send me care packages and write.
�Lofgren: I have some other questions that I
would like to ask you. Do you remember Camp
Grant and tell what you can about it?
Peacock: I remember Camp Grant even before
the war. We used to go there during the summer
and watch the National Guard train and especially go to Bell Bowl and watch the boxing matches. When I came back, I was discharged at Camp
Grant also. When I got there I had some kind of
a rash all over my body and I had to stay in the
hospital a week or so before I could go home.
One day they give me a pass so I knew where I
was and I jumped over the fence and I went
home. I had to come back though.
Lofgren: What did you do when you came back
from the service? Did you go right to work?
Peacock: Yes I went right back to work with my
dad and brother and sister. We still had the lumber yard and I stayed there until we got rid of it
in 1948.
Lofgren: After that, what did you do?
Peacock: After that I met this nice lady one time
when I was home on a furlough. She worked at
Woodward Governor Company. We got pretty
when I come home and she encouraged me to go
take the test at Woodward Governor and luckily
I got a job there and that’s where I finished my
industrial works.
member of the Grange, farmer’s organization
and I dropped out of that later.
Lofgren: What is the most significant memory
in your life?
Peacock: I have one memory that comes to
mind right now. After I got out of the service I
started taking flying lessons out at Machesney
Airport. One time I was up solo flying and I’d
been flying around over Lake Geneva and Delavan and I was coming back to the airport and the
engine on the plane started sputtering and spitting. I thought Oh, Oh. I was right over a highway and I thought I'm going to have to land on
the road but luckily I leaned on the throttle and
the engine caught hold and by that time I was in
sight of the airport. I just flew right on in and
landed. Luckily, I made it okay.
Lofgren: Is there anything else you can think of
that you would like us to know about.
Peacock: I can’t think of anything exciting other
than the most memorable experience was the
first year on the Alaskan Highway. There were
so many trees there, like one fellow said, “Look
out there’s opportunity behind every tree out
there.”
Lofgren: I suppose that was a chance for you to
have a little laughter.
Peacock: Oh, yah.
Lofgren: When did you retire?
Lofgren: Is there anything else?
Peacock: I worked there 32 years and I retired
December 5th, 1980.
Lofgren: Did you belong to any social club?
Peacock: At the time I only belonged to the Masonic Lodge, Masons, no social club other than
that.
Peacock: That’s all I can think of now except
that the lady I met at Woodward Governor is
still my wife, 57 years.
Lofgren: There won’t be many married that
long in the future.
Peacock: I don’t imagine.
Lofgren: Did you belong to the VFW or the
American Legion?
Peacock: I did belong to the VFW for a while
and then I dropped out of that. I had been a
Lofgren: Well, Glenn, it has been a pleasure
interviewing you and I hope you have many,
many more years with that nice young lady who
is your roommate.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
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Midway Village Museum
Publisher
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Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Margaret Lofgren
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Glen Peacock
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
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Title
A name given to the resource
Glen Peacock
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
26-Mar-04
Description
An account of the resource
Born November 25, 1919, Glen Peacock was drafted into the Army infantry in 1941 and discharged in 1946. He died June 16, 2011.
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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c66f6f9f467b5543d20b1db421bd66e2
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Title
A name given to the resource
State Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts of East State Street and West State Street in Rockford, Illinois. The majority of views cover the era of 1900-1930.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1990
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Harry B. Burpee Bldg.
Description
An account of the resource
People outside examining fire damage; Heller & Livingston to the right.
Publisher
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Grenlund
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1910
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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jpeg
Identifier
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76.208.30
Type
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Still Image
Harry B. Burpee
Heller & Livingston
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
West State Street
-
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300ffd808dfd4c06cdb1bfba8be3247d
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
State Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts of East State Street and West State Street in Rockford, Illinois. The majority of views cover the era of 1900-1930.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1990
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Heart of Business District, W. State St. looking East, Rockford, Ill.
Description
An account of the resource
C. F. Henry Clothing Co. is bottom left; on the right is Allen's, W. and F. Furniture Co., and the Republic Building in the far distance across the river.
Publisher
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E. C. Kropp
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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jpeg
Identifier
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85.109(I).50
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Allen's
C. F. Henry
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
the Republic Building
W. and F. Furniture Co.
West State Street
-
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1a8e4358072cb23bc6d741e30f24cceb
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
State Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts of East State Street and West State Street in Rockford, Illinois. The majority of views cover the era of 1900-1930.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1990
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hebner's Gift Shop
Description
An account of the resource
A color graphic rendering of Hebner's, 4339 W. State Street. "Stop and see us, we are on Highway 20, one mile west of the city limits, end of Ingersoll Park."
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Nationwide Post Card Co.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109.829
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Hebner's Gift Shop
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
West State Street
-
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a8a2a02eb8fc9c76461b60a3401ce342
PDF Text
Text
Helen Kunz
Page
HÃIflN KUNZ
Wife of William
J.
Kunz
Transcribed by Elaine Carlson
For Midway Village andMuseum Center
6977 Guilford Road
Rocldord,IL 61107
!
Phone 399 9112
{
I
�HelenKum
Page 2
Helen Kunz
Wife of WilliamKunz
April 11, 1994-my name is Phyllis Gordon. I am a
volunteer with the Midway Village and Museum
Center which is participating in a statewide effort to
collect oral histories from Illinois citizens who
participated in the momentous events surrounding
World War II. We are inthe Museum Center and we
are talking with Helen Kum who participated as a
civilian on the home front during World War II. We
are interviewing her about her experiences during
that war. Helen, would you please stårt by
introducing yourself to us. Please give us your frrll
name and the place and date of your birth.
HELEN: I'm
Helen Kunz and
I
was born in
PHYLLIS: We would also like the names of each
from that area.
PHYLLIS: Did you have any friends that
were
involved in war related work?
HELEN: No.
PHYLLIS: Duringthe war was there any population
shifts because of the need for workers in cert¿in
of
EELEN: Not in our area
because we
didn't have any
defense areas.
FELEN: My father's name wâs Stanley and
mother's name was
HELEN: Right. The crew of the ships. They would
come in and we would have crew pay day and I
would get to meet a lot of these Japanese and people
industries?
Pattersor¡ New Jersey on May 24,1922.
yourparents.
PHYLLIS: The crew of the ship?
Freda.
my
PHYLLIS:
So you didn't have
to move because of
work?
PEYLLIS: Didyou have anybrothers or sisters?
)
HELEN: No.
nnLDN: No, I didnot.
PHYLLIS: Was there a military camp near you
home community?
PHYLLIS: Are there any details about your parents
or you family that you wold like to give?
HDLDN: Not really. I can't think too much.
PHYLLIS: Okay. At any time during the time were
you employed or a volunteer in a war-related work or
lrELAN:
There was one later on established. BiU had
gone overseas akeady when this was established in a
town nearlry. Called Orange burg, New York and
they put Camp Shanks. In later years being out here
in Rocldord one of my bosses left from that same
camp.
service?
HELEN: No,
I was employed, but not in a war
PHYLLIS: Can you tell us how the service men and
civilians mingled in the community?
related...
PHYLLIS: Would you please tell us about what
yourjob was?
HELEN: Well, we had one of two USO'S FROM
THIS Ca\mp Shanks. The fellows would go there. ln
fact that's how some of my friends met their future
husbands. But tbat was the only activity.
HELEN: Okay. We lived about thirty some miles
from New York City and I commuted every day
about an hour and a half. I worked for a steamship
company and also ¡m insurance company. The
interesting part--when I worked for the steamship
company was-it was Holland
line and they
had to leave Europe because of the war. And their
main office was in Pier side so I got to Meet a lot of
people and we had the crew---+hips' crews----rot the
cruise shipsbut...
_?_
PHYLLIS: Was there a military equipment or supply
factory nearyour home community?
HELEN: No. There
w¿s not.
PHYLLIS: Was there a prisoner of war
camp
nearby?
HELEN: Well, this Camp Shanks-later onthey
�Helen Kunz
',
broughtprisonersback.
PHYLLIS: Can you tell us any experienc.es you or
your ûiends may have had with these prisoners?
HELEN: No, because they were far enough away the
only time we saw them üas when I was on the
commuter trains going back and forth to work and
Page 3
looking fonrard to the day when it would end" And
of course we had two VE days then. We had a false
one that we celebrated on the 7h of May. The
message had come tbrough that it was over with. And
we were let go ftom our office. We were working on
Wall Süeet in New York City and we all went up to
Times Square just like on New Yeat's Eve and then
the next day was the official one and so
they wouldbe waving to us as the trains went by
PHYLLIS: One the home front we lnow you had to
cope with rationing and recycling. Can you tell us
how your family attemptedto cope withthe rationing
rrye
celebrated two days in a row.
PHYLLIS: Two celebrations.
and the control of food, fuel, clothing and housing?
HELEN: Well, we were like everybody else. We had
a few stamps and we made do. Some weeks it went
further and other weeks it didn't and then we had to
watch. We couldn't use the c¡lr very much because
HDLEN: Two celebrations, right.
PHYLLIS: This next question I already know the
answer from your husband's inten¡iew. Did your
interest in the war increase, decrease or remain aboui
the same from 1941 to 1945?
you couldn't get the tires, unless you were.,.
HT'.LEN: It definitely increased.
PHYLLIS: Andthegas?
PHYLLIS:
I trnow that you were faithful letter
writers.
HELEN: And the
gas, right. Unless you were...
PHYLLIS: Did you or your ftiends have victory
gardens?
HELIN:
No.
HELEN: Also, we could only send--you mentioned
something about pækages We only could send a
package that couldn't four pounds. And you try to
figure your box, so we would try to put some candy
bars and some cookies, but it w¿s very little that you
could in those boxes.
PHYLLIS: Didyou save and recycle any household
waste such as grease, paper, and metals?
gf'.LEN: No. They w€ren't into recycling like they
are no'w.
PHYLLIS: When things did not go well for our side
duringthe early days of United States in participation
in the war, particularly in the Pacific, did you ever
fear that the Japanese might bomb or invade the west
coast or the war might eventually come to your
PEYLLIS: Did you participate in any was bond
drives or fund raising efforts to for the war--or
community?
activities?
HELEN: No,
HELEN:: No. My day was pretty much spent in
commutinghck and forth When you spend a couple
hours then you never knew. The trains were coal
driven and sometimes it was a poor quality and I
remember si$ing at one station for almost an hour
one night coming home because they couldn't make
the grade.
PEYLLIS: As the long was
progressed what
thoughts do you recall abut the attitudes you, your
family or your friends may have had toward the value
of the war and the importance of your contribution
and Bill's contribution.
HELEN: Well, we thought it was never going to end
It just seemed to go on and on and on We were
I was pretty confident that we had
excellent service people and that we were hoping it
wouldn't come or we were very very confident it
wouldn't ever.
PHYLLIS: Do you remember if you ever had airraidwarning systems.
HELEN: Oll
yes. We hadblackout drills every day
Yes, we did.
PHYLLIS: Can you tell us anything you remember
about those? Can you tell us anything you rernember
¿bout those?
HELEN: Well, I remember one night a good friend
of his came up to visit me. He lived in this other town
�Page 4
HelenKunz
and we were talking and we heard the air raid signal
go off and apparentþ one of the curtains wasn't
closed. I remember they blow the whistle and yelled
close that curfain. That is when Warren came up to
see me that night. (Laughter)>
PHYLLIS: Were there ever any feelings of hatred o¡
distrust of United States citizens who were of
Japanese descent or German descent in your
community?
HELEN: No. There weren't.
PHYLLIS: No hostile actions ever taken place
against suchpeople? Do you recall the opinion of you
or your family or friends may have had toward our
war time president, Franklin D. Roosevelt?
HELEN: Well, there was the usual pro and con. That
we shouldn't have gotten involved as you have with
every president. Some are for and some against, but I
think the majority of people felt that that was the way
to go in that situation.
PHYLLIS: So you would say that there was general
support inyour community for FDR's involvement of
the united state?
HELEN: Mmhmm. Yes.
PHYLLIS: Was there general support in you
community for FDR's candidacy for a third and
fourth precedent breaking term?
HELEN: Mm. Not too much. The thought we should
have a change, but then they thaought that was not
the right time either.
PHYLLIS: Some have said the war years were "fun
time years for the home front." What did you and
other civilian on the home ûont do for entertainment
and recreation?
HELEN: There was very little to do. As I sai4 I
spent most of my time commuting By the time you
got home at night and hadyour dinner, it was time to
go to bed and you got up early next morning I did
have one circumstance. One time with some of the
girls I worked ìÀ,ith in New York City went to Times
Square for New Year's Eve. And that was entirely
different because it was blackout and very few lights
were onbut there were still crowds there, but nothing
compared to what there is now, but it was a different
experience.
PHYLLIS: I can imagine. How closely did you
follow the progress of the war through newspapers,
magazines, books, radio, and movies? Do you
remember listening to the radio?
HELEN: The radio--{ight. And we followed
everything closely through newspapers and
magazines and I had a feel for where my husband
was stationed at the time and I could tell from his
letters and I figured from what his division was with I
could figure out some things. Some of his letters
there was one in particular. CaÉåin Bailey-that
innocent little things he wrote in would always be cut
out. I would get my V-mail letters with cut out. There
were holes in them. And I always said that at one of
the reunions I would like to meet that gentleman but
he passed on so I couldnever...
PHYLLIS:
So
you could never talk to him?
HELEN: Right.
PEYLLIS: Did you ever feel that any of
the
informationyou received might bc propaganda?
HÍ'.LEN: No, I don'tthink
so.
PHVLLIS: Before the end of the war was you aware
thæ any civilian concentration c:rmps existed in the
enemy nations?
EELEN: Yes.
PHYLLIS: How didyou learn about them?
HELEN: (No repþ)
PHYLLIS: In lookinghck over the past fifty years,
do you feel the social changes that began developing
during the war years have in general been good for
the natior¡ good for people, good for you and your
family? Why or why not? Be as specific and franh as
you want to be.
rrr'.LEN: Of course, we were just talking about how
women were liberated" so to speaþ to go into the
work force. I thhk one thing that change4 people did
more moving around like some of these girls that I
knew that met fellows at the USO and they were
fellows from Texas and Indiana. They manied and
relocated" whereas before the war, you pretty much
stayed in your homefown and also I think the people
became lenient with their children in later years.
They spoiled them because they figured *I didn't
have it.u I don't think that was very good for the
general outlook ofthe younger people.
�HelenKum
Page 5
PHYLLIS: Perhaps you have some other ideas, or
concepts or memories of the $/ar years that are
important to you even if I haven't specifically
mentioned them during this interview. Do you have
other views or memories you would like to share? If
so, we would like to hear about them now. Maybe
about getting Bill's letters or. ..
PHYLLIS: Is there anythinC else that you would like
to share with us about your time during World War
HELEN: Oh yes that was always a highlight. And
thenhe sent some souvenirs home. Thatwas always a
highlight of getting some of those things and we w€re
amazed at how they came through. One thing in
particular, he is still wearing the ring. It was given to
him by his grandmother. It broke and I said return it.
I had an uncle who was a jeweler and I would have it
fixed He just put it in a regular airmail envelope and
it came througlr. How it ever did, I don't ftnow. The
prongs were sticking out of the envelope and it made
visiting and he had been badly wounded. The one
fellow told me when we were up in Boston--¿nd he
told me I di&r't think they'd put him back in again
but they needed the valuable ones witlt experience so
he stayed in rigþt through to the en¿ They said they
diúr't see why he should have ever come back agairl
but when you have the experienced ones you just
have to hang on to them. It was interesting when he
was in the hospital in Naples. Years later a good
friend of our got into service lat€r because he was a
it from
manied man with a child and he was stationed at th¿t
II?
HELEN: No. I think 3we've pretty well hit all the
high spots. It seemed like a long time. It just seemed
to go on and on. I thoiught Bill would be some
sooner. I talkedto some of his buddies when we were
overse¿¡s.
same hospital where he hadbeen in.
PHYLLIS: You would think it would tear the paper
and it would and it would get lost.
PHYIÃIS: That is interesting. Well, thank you for
IIELEN: Right. That was one of the highlights. I
remember that and then trying to get the small
packages down to four pounds. I bought a special
scale and tried to prt everything in. Apparentþ
much.
sharing these remembrances. We appreciate
I had forgotten was when I did mail the
letters. I used to put perñrme on them and at the
reunions, several of his buddies mentioned thât a
highlight was when my letters arrived. I had forgotten
that. fuidalso the packages with cookies inthem.
something
PHYLLIS: That 's interesting. We didn't talk much
about the rationing. Was there any part of the
rationing that you remernber as being particularly
troublesome?
HELEN: No, no really. We just lnew that was what
we hadto d. I think I remember the sugar was a thing
because you couldn't bake. You couldn't do very
much. Sugar and the gas. Those were the two hard
things. Eventually we just had to put the car up on
blocks because we couldn't get the gas for it.
PHYLLIS: Andthe tires.
HELEN: The tires, right. So when he came home the
family car \üås up on blocks.
PHYLLIS: Not exactly ready to
HELEN: No. Right. Exactly
go.
it
very
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Phyllis Gordon
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Helen Kunz
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Helen Kunz
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
April 11, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born May 24, 1922, Helen Kunz was a civilian and the wife of William Kunz who served in the Army. She died June 29, 2018.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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537a1e56df79b4ff2a5e5cae76f25ce1
PDF Text
Text
Helen Robertson Williams
Helen Robertson Williams
Served in a WAVE unit in the
United States Armed Forces
Transcribed by Elaine Carlson
Edited and Typed by Margaret Lofgren
Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Telephone 815 397 9112
Page1
�Helen Robertson Williams
Page2
Helen Robertson Williams
Hello today is October 20, 1994. My name
is Marajean Brooks. I am a volunteer with
the Midway Village & Museum Center. We
are cooperating with the statewide effort to
collect oral histories from Illinois citizens
who participated in the momentous events
surrounding World War II. We are in the
home of Helen Williams, 1819 Prestwood,
Rockford, Illinois, 61103. Mrs. William
served in a branch of the United States
Forces. She was with a WAVE with the
Navy during World War II. We are
interviewing her about her experiences as a
WAVE in Washington, D. C. and Virginia.
Her current phone number is 815-877-0620.
She was born April 2nd, 1925. Both her
parents came from Aberdeen, Scotland.
HELEN: My name was Helen Robertson
when I went into the service in April of
1945. Before I went into the service from
the time I was in high school, I attended
Rockford College for a time and also
worked at Woodward Governor in the
defense industry here in Rockford, Illinois.
In April, 1945, just following the end of the
war in Europe, I went into the service and I
left Rockford and left a very heart broken
mother.
MARAJEAN: Why did you wait until then?
H: Because I was not twenty until April,
1945, and you had to be twenty years old at
that timea woman to enter the service. As
I left my tearful motherbeing an only
child, why I think I had broken her heart, but
off I went. So I went to boot camp and
Hunter College in Bronx, New York. It was
kind of rigorous for a gal who wasn’t that
much of an outdoor person, but I made it
through the seven weeks. At the end of the
seven weeks, I went to recruiter school for
two weeks to become a recruiter in the
WAVE. At the end ofI believe it was two
weeks if my memory is holding up on me, I
was sent to recruit in the state of Virginia.
Now, actually where I was stationed was in
Washington, D. C., because the Office of
Procurement was there and WAVE came
under the Office of Procurement in the
Navy. At the time that I west to Washington,
D. C., the weather was very hot and steamy
that summer of 1945 and I lived in an
apartment house that was a converted
barracks just one block north of the white
House. So it was kind of interesting. Every
day I had to walk to go to my office when I
was in Washington, D. C. I had to walk past
the White House and many mornings I saw
President Truman and saluted him. Then
after a few weeks in Washington, D. C., I
was sent out to do recruiting in the State of
Virginia. Well, time was wearing down
about then and it looks like maybe the war
in Japan is going to be over. People are
looking I go out first with an officer who
is supposed to be training me. We were out
for a couple weeks and I went to various
places and I learned the ropes of speaking
before groups, scaring me to death, but I
made it and didn’t recruit a soul, because the
war is coming to an end and the momentum
is gone. Finally, I was sent out by myself to
the various little recruiting stations around
the State of Virginia. The first place I went
was to Bristol, Tennessee.
H: Bristol, Tennessee, it’s on the border of
Virginia. So there I was and the Chief Petty
Officer, who was in charge of the station on
the 13th of August, came in with a notice and
said, “You’ve been called back to
Washington.” So the morning of the 14th of
August, I was put on a train and the Chief
forgot to give me any orders. Luckily
nobody asked me for any papers. As we
came close to Washington, we found out
�Helen Robertson Williams
that the war with Japan had ended. They
came on the train as we got to the outskirts
and told us the war had ended and of course
everybody was just very up. And me with
my two weeks of luggage got off the train
and went over to try to check it because I
looked out on the street and it was just one
sea of people and no transportation. So, I
went over the baggage place to check my
luggage and they just looked at me and said
they didn’t have room for it. Well, I begged
and pleaded and they took it finally because
by this time it was night and I had to walk
amongst these throngs of people up to my
quarters. But I did. I got lots of kisses on the
way. All the service people were out.
Everybody was out. And there was nothing
to eat and I hadn’t had anything to eat in a
long time.
M: Were they noisy?
Page3
for dinner and so forthnot that I had
expected an invitation for dinner but at least
I expected that someone would maybe talk
to me. They also had their former pastor
there who was now a chaplain. During the
sermon he made some rather pointed
remarks about how terrible women in the
Service were and here I sat in my uniform,
the only Service woman in the audience and
I quietly left as quickly as I could. The priest
and the officer were waiting for me down by
the Catholic church and they said, “What
happened?” I told them and they said, “We
were afraid that might happen.”
M: They just didn’t want their southern
women in the Service.
H: They didn’t want the southern women in
the service and I was a northerner. I haven’t
been backthat isn’t true. I have been back.
H: Oh, yes, very noisy. It was a big
celebration. We had a big celebration here.
So, I arrived home and that was the end of
my recruiting career. One thing that was
very interesting, I was in one of the towns in
Virginia and all the time I was still in
training with the office I was with. On a
Sunday morning, she was a Catholic gal and
I was a Presbyterian and we decided we
were going to church and both churches
were up the street a ways. I walked with her
to the Catholic church, and the priest outside
invited me to come to the Catholic church
and I said, “Oh, no. I’m going to the
Presbyterian church.” They tried to dissuade
me from going to the Presbyterian church.
Then I went there to
M: But not in that situation.
M: The Presbyterian church?
M: Many of them couldn’t read at all.
H: To the Presbyterian church. No one
spoke to me. This was upsetting to me
because all during the war, at our home on
Sunday morning, we had invited the soldiers
H: couldn’t read or write because they
hadn’t been to school.
H: No.
M: And did you get anyone coming into
your recruiting office at all?
H: Yes. We got mainly young black women
who came in and wanted to go into the
Service but very often they just didn’t have
enough education to pass the entrance exam.
I don’t know if that’s what they called it, but
some sort of a test.
M: A written test?
H: Yes.
M: No. What did you do after VJ Day?
�Helen Robertson Williams
H: After VJ Day I was in this office with
Officer Procurement and I did mainly
clerical work.
M: In Washington?
H: In Washington. I was right down town in
Washington. I was never in the Navy
Department or anything like that. I was
attached to this office of Officer
Procurement and we spent the rest of the
time sending back documents that people
had. It was mainly men; not too many
women, had applied for Service. They had
sent certain documents, well, like some of
them were birth certificates and some
college transcripts and we were returning
them If we could find them, if we had an
address for hem. So I did that for several
months, plus some other miscellaneous
secretarial.
Page4
M: On the bus?
H: Oh, yes. So they put me in quarters so I
couldn’t eat out any more. And then I
wentI came home to Rockford in
February. And on February 23rd, 1946, I was
married to Al Williams. Allen Williams I
should say and because I married a
discharged veteran, I could get out of the
service. I could be discharged myself, so I
went back to Washington and a couple
weeks after being back, they sent me on a
troop train to Great Lakes and I was
discharged at Great Lakes and I cam home.
That’s the end of my career, March 9, 1946.
M: About eleven months.
H: That’s true. That’s all it was.
M: Did you get acquainted with other
women?
M: What prompted you to get out?
H: Well, I came home in December to be
maid of honor for my cousin who was
almost she and I had grown up together
like sisters. And I being an only child, she
was like my sister. I came home and the
same day that I arrived here a man by the
name of Al Williams was arriving from
overseas in December. And on December 9,
he was discharged at Camp Grant. I was
home for a couple of weeks and then I went
back.
M: Had you known him before?
H: Oh, yes. I met him at West High School.
Our romance was mainly by letter even
though we had dated a few times before he
left. I went back to Washington. My quarters
had been moved and I was moved out to
Maryland. So I had to go back and forth to
work on the bus.
H: Yes, I did, but I moved too many times
and except in boot camp, I was never doing
the same thing they were doing. I was
always kind of off by myself. I did have one
very interesting experience. In January,
1946, I am of Scottish descent. I happen to
be a first generation American and a petty
officer in our office and his wife asked me
to go to the Burns’ banquet in Washington,
D. C., with them and the speaker at the
Burns’ banquet was General Dwight D.
Eisenhower. That was a very interesting
experience and being a little shy in those
years, I didn’t go up an ask him to sign my
program, so I missed that opportunity.
M: Did you get to do anything else in
Washington when you were there? There
were so many important people there.
H: There were so many important people
but you were a __?__. I was fortunate in the
�Helen Robertson Williams
fact that when I was out in Virginia were
some very old friends of my parents who
had been friends of my mother in Scotland
and who had lived in Rockford for a time.
They didn’t have any children, so they took
me under their wing. They took me all over.
I saw many of the sights, because I really
didn’t, at that point, have any friends that
werebecause most of them worked in the
Navy Department and some of the people
who lived in my apartment. By the way, I
should tell you about that apartment north of
the White House. It was what we call, let me
see if I can find the word for itone room,
one bathroom and a little kitchenette.
M: Efficiency?
H: Efficiency! Maybe just a little better.
Well, no. Do you know how many of us
were in there? There were 6 of us.
Page5
M: And they worked those hours? That
made six in a room easier to cope with.
H: Yes. And people came and went. There
was one gal who was much older that the
rest of us. And, of course, most of these gals
I roomed with at that time were older than I
was.
M: How many of these efficiencies were in
this building?
H: I really
M: How many floors. How many on one
floor? How many on each floor?
H: I don’t know. Well, it was just a regular
apartment
building
with
efficienciesmaybe ten on each floor. I
don’t know for sure.
M: In one room?
M: That’s a lot of people.
H: Yes, that was the same way when we
were in boot camp. But some of the
M: Three bunk beds?
H: Three bunk beds and if you can imagine,
I was probably the only one who worked
civilized hours. The rest of them worked for
the Navy Department and they worked
various hours so I really didn’t get too well
acquainted.
H: Mm hmm. But when I moved to
Maryland and then after I went back, I
ended up in Virginia in a barracks, so I was
in several places. They closed this one that
was down town, became actually it was
premium quarters.
M: Sure, premium property, too.
H: Oh, yes. I’m sure, but I don’t know that I
M: By various hours? Was it?
H: Nights. Some of them worked so they
were sleeping during the day so you didn’t
dare move around.
M: What was the name of these people,
your mother’s friends?
H: Their names were Polly and George
Gordon. And they
M: So the Navy Department was really open
around the clock?
M: G-O-R-D-O-N.
H: Oh, yes.
H: Mm hmm.
�Helen Robertson Williams
M: I’m sure they are long dead.
H: Oh, yes.
Page6
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Marajean Brooks
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Helen Robertson Williams
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Helen Robertson Williams
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
20-Oct-94
Description
An account of the resource
Born 1925, Helen Robertson Williams became a recruiter for the WAVES (Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service, a unit of the U.S. Naval Reserve) in 1945. She was discharged in March of 1946.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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d3557c0607cdbe1303f5cfb100055174
PDF Text
Text
Herman Johnson
Transcribed by Elaine Carlson
For Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois
Phone 815 397 9112
�Herman Johnson
Today is April 12th, 1994. My name is Phyllis Gordon. I am a volunteer with the Midway Village and Museum Center which is
cooperating with a state wide effort to collect oral histories of Illinois citizens which
participated in the events surrounding World
War II. We are in the North Suburban District Library in Loves Park, Illinois. We are
interviewing Mr. Herman Johnson who
served in a branch of the United States
Armed Forces during World War II. We are
interviewing him about his experiences in
that war.
G: Mr. Johnson would you please start just
by introducing yourself to us.
J: All right. Herman Jerome Johnson. I was
born in Rockford, Illinois, on May 17, 1926.
G: We would also like to have the names of
each of your parents.
J: All Right. My father’s name was Oscar
Johnson and my mother’s name was Molly
Johnson.
G: Did you have any brothers or sisters?
J: No.
G: Are there any details about your parents
or your family that you would like to give at
this time?
J: I was in high school at East High in Rockford, Illinois. I remember the construction at
Camp Grant. I remember going downtown
on State Street and seeing all the army fellows on passes from Camp Grant on the
State Street Bridge. I don’t recall if gas rationing had started then, but I remember my
father had coupons and he would get 5 gallons of gasoline a week to drive back and
forth to work.
G: Well. What thoughts did you have about
the war before the United States became
directly involved in the conflict?
J: Not too much although I was interested in
aviation and the stories and the pictures of
the German and the English airplanes that
interested me a lot.
G: Did you hear about Pearl Harbor? Where
were you and what were you doing at that
time?
J: It was Sunday afternoon at home. My
parents and I were listening to the radio.
They interrupted whatever program was on
and the announcement came on. I know we
were quite shocked and it was somewhat
quiet in the house for a little while. We all
listened to see what was going on.
G: You all knew it meant serious trouble.
J: Right.
J: My parents were both immigrants from
Norway. My father came over in 1913; my
mother came in 1925.
G: Well. What was life like for you before
the war and specifically if you can think
back to 1941?
G: Had you formed any prior opinion or
developed any feeling about what was taking place in either Europe or Asia?
J: I think I felt that the Germans were
wrong. Of course, they did invade my parents’ homeland and that was a dastardly act
and so we didn’t __?__. As far as Asia goes
�I suppose that would be more removed from
my thoughts at that time.
G: Do you recall reading any newspaper
accounts about the German aggression in
Europe?
G: You knew you were going to go, so
J: And I would be drafted. I didn’t have any
reservations abut being drafted, but I just
thought I would prefer the Navy.
G: Have some choice.
J: Not specifically. But I do recall reading
the Rockford paper and the Chicago Herald
American got at that time on weekends.
J: Yes.
G: When and where were you inducted?
G: Did you have any knowledge about Hitler, his speeches, his ideas, his actions?
J: I might have but I don’t recallas a teenager, it wasn’t quite uppermost in my mind.
J: Great Lakes. No. Chicago. No, wait a
minute. I enlisted in Rockford, physical in
Chicago and I suppose the induction center
and the boot camp was at Great Lakes, Illinois.
G: I don’t think we knew too much.
J: No.
G: What is it that led to your entry in the
military service? Were you drafted or did
you volunteer?
G: Do you have any special memories of
that event?
J: I remember all the bodies at the physical
examination in a big building in Chicago
G: How old were you?
J: I was not drafted. In early spring of ’44, a
friend of mine and I took the Air Force mental test, they called it. A knowledge test and
we passed that. Then we went to Camp
Grant for a physical and I did not make that.
I had a broken nose once and I couldn’t be
in high altitudes. I knew I would have to go
because I would be 18 in May in ’44. I tried
the Marine Corp. They didn’t want me because my eyes weren’t quite good enough so
I decided to enlist in the Navy, because I’d
rather be in the Navy so I did that instead in
the spring of ’44.
G: Was your response to entering the Navy
influenced by your family and friends attitudes towards the war or the threat to the
national security or any other consideration?
J: I was 18.
G: What happened after you were inducted?
J: We were sent to Great Lakes and we spent
4 or 5 weeks at boot camp, as they call it,
preliminary training, which was very interesting. Since I had had ROTC in high
school, I knew all about marching and the
rifle and that kind of thing and calisthenics
so that helped me a lot.
G: Where did you take your basic military
training?
J: In Great Lakes.
G: What were you trained to do?
J: I think I knew I would be going
�J: That was basic training, and then again,
tests, ability tests and I was sent with others
to Iowa State College for electrical training,
to be a Naval electrician and that was 4
months of college courses on electricity and
engineering.
G: What did you think of the training?
J: It was very good.
G: Did anything special happen there?
friends you made or your association with
civilians?
J: Coming home on leave in those two instances was very nice, a young sailor in uniform. It was quite fun to see my old friends
in Rockford. Civilians, especially travelling,
on the trains. We would stop at certain stations and the Red Cross, or whatever, the
women would come with donuts and coffee
and we would be leaning out the windows.
The civilians were very nice to us.
J: No, it was a very nice experience, because
I went in the Navy before I graduated from
high school, a half year early. The courses I
took at Iowa State and my grades were
enough to give me credit for high school
graduation with my class and it also gave me
quite a few credits toward college.
G: Sometimes sandwiches they say, too.
G: That was good. Tell us about any other
training camp you attended.
G: Some were assigned to a division or a
certain infantry division.
J: After Iowa State, a group of us were sent
to an Amphibian Training Base. I think it
was Camp Bradford, Virginia outside of
Norfolk and that was to be trained as crew
members on the LST landing ship, naval
landing ship and that was the training I received there.
J: Well, I suppose the NavyCould I take a
few minutes to explain? I suppose the Navy
is different. After this amphibian training in
Virginia, they found they didn’t need any
people for crews for these particular ships.
They did send some of us down to Trinidad.
We kind of waited there for several months.
Then 5 or 6 of us were sent to San Juan,
Puerto Rico. At that place, on the naval
base, 3 of us were trained to be radio teletype technicians repair persons. And so
that’s I was part of an electrician and a radio
teletype station at San Juan.
G: Did you have any leaves or passes? And
if so how did you use them?
J: I think I had a few days after basic training at Great Lakes and then a few days after
the completion of the courses at Iowa State
before going to Virginia.
J: I don’t recall that but it was quite nice.
G: What was your military unit?
J: I don’t quite understand.
G: Where did you go after completing this
basic training?
G: Did you come home then?
J: Stayed in San Juan as a repair technician.
J: Yes, I came home. Yes, I came home.
G: What do you call this period about the
places where you were stationed or the
G: What did you think of the nation’s war
efforts up to this point?
�J: It seemed it was very good. I remember
writing letters about the fact that they had to
save cans and a real effort made at home to
help out.
G: You were never sent into combat?
J: No, I was very fortunate.
G: I should say. Did you write many letters
home?
G: Were you ever entertained by Hollywood
entertainers that sometimes came around?
J: I can’t recall them ever coming to where I
was stationed at that time. Apparently Puerto Rico was kind of off the beaten track and
it was so close to the United States that I
assume they didn’t think it was that important.
G: When and how did you return to the
United States after the end of the war?
J: Probably once a week.
J: My mother would send letters and cookies
and try to send cakes. Of course they were
crumbs but everybody ate them
J: Through the point system. It took me ’til
Junelast part of June 1946. I stayed in San
Juan, Puerto Rico. We were flown back to
Fort __?__ in Brooklyn. We were sent on a
train back to Great Lakes. I remember I
walked into the door at home on 4th of July,
1946.
G: Did most of the other men write and receive letters?
G: Tell about your military rank and decorations.
J: I believe so. Yes.
J: Well, we wereMy rank was what you
called Fireman First Class. I was supposed
to be a sergeant, perhaps. There were no
decorations given out for these stations in
Puerto Rico.
G: Did you receive many letters, and/or
packages?
G: Have you remained in contact with any
of your World War II companions?
J: No, I never heard from them after leaving
the service.
G: Were you aware of any civilian concentration camps at that time?
J: I don’t think so, no.
G: Can you remember what you and the
other men did to celebrate traditional holidays, such as Thanksgiving or Christmas?
J: They would serve a special turkey dinner
is all in the dining rooms and then there
would usually be a movie in the evening.
That’s probably about all. There wasn’t too
much activity.
G: How did you get along with the men with
whom you had the greatest contact?
J: I think we got along fine. We were companions when we went out in the evenings.
The base we were on, there were just 30
people there. They had quite an expansive
USO in San Juan. We shopped __?__ and
[bottomless girls]. From time to time the
base planned picnics at beaches, dances and
so on. We just had a nice time.
G: Have you ever been back to Puerto Rico?
J: No. Never.
�G: Were there any things you would do differently if you could do it once again?
J: Regarding the service?
J: It must not have been that important. I
think we were there, still in the service and
completely involved in that. As I recall,
there wasn’t that much of a celebration on
the base.
G: Regarding the service.
J: No. If I couldn’t fly, which I desperately
wanted to do, I think the Navy is probably
the best place.
G: What was your opinion about the use of
the atomic bomb when it was used against
the Japanese in August of 1945?
J: My thinking at that time?
G: Is there anything that stands out from
your years of military service?
J: Okay. One thing in 1944, April, we were
on a ship going from Virginia to Trinidad.
There were about 5 or 6 hundred sailors and
British soldiers and sailors and we were
headed down toward the Caribbean. In the
Caribbean the engines of the ship stopped.
Dead silence. They announced that Franklin
Roosevelt had died.
G: Oh.
J: There was just dead silence. Nobody said
a word for about 10 minutes. It was just very
quiet. I think they played Taps on the loud
speaker system started talking about what
was going to happen then. We were quite
concerned because our leader was gone.
That was the most outstanding thing.
G: That was an interesting memory. How
did you learn abut VE Day and what was
your reaction to that?
G: At that time.
J: Surprised and shocked but I think we did
it probably a lot sooner than expected. I
talked to a lot of people, a lot of sailors, that
had been over in the Pacific on LST ships
that I had been training for. They would tell
us, coming to the beaches where Japanese
controlled the islands These ships were
being destroyed by the score by mines and
running up and it was complete mayhem
couldn’t make it when they tried to hit
beaches.
G: Has that opinion changed over the last 50
years?
J: No, not at all.
G: When and where were you officially discharged? I think you sort of covered that.
J: Great Lakes Naval Station.
G: The year would be
J: Well, it was a nice evening. We were
watching a movie. They stopped the movie
and they announced it one evening about
what was happening in Europe. That was all.
A lot of cheering and clapping and that was
all.
J: 1946.
G: Do you have any kind of disability rating?
J: No.
G: How did you hear about VJ Day and
what was your reaction to that?
G: Or a pension?
�J: No.
G: Do you have any opinions or feelings
about our nation’s military status today or its
policies?
J: That’s a leading question.
G: I’ve been getting some leading answers,
too.
J: I bet you have. Well I think we should
keep a certain amount of strength and a certain amount of stock, developing and maintaining our equipment in our Armed Forces.
The way the world is today one doesn’t
know and I don’t think we should give away
score yet.
G: It seems to be a war going on somewhere
all the time.
J: I kind of thought we should not have been
in Vietnam. That was kind of a __?__ situation. And I think what we did in Somalia
was kind of a waste because nothing was
accomplished and I’m worried about what is
going to happen Saudi.
service. By giving you moral support by
letters and packages.
J I think so. My parents were quite disturbed
when I left. After being out of state position
and that kind of thing. The last time I saw
them for a long timeI saw them was almost 2 years. They certainly did support me
with letters and pictures from home, cookies
and good stuff. I know my mother belonged
to theShe had a star in the window and all
those things.
G: Navy Mothers.
J: Navy Mothers. Yes, she went to meetings.
Yes, that’s what it was. Navy Mothers.
G: In subsequent years what has that support
meant to you?
J; Well, I had good feeling about having
been in service and it was not a thing I
should not have done. I was lucky to have
been sent where was and not having to see
G: Combat.
G: Right. Do you have any contact with the
Veterans’ Administration?
J: Yeah.
J: No.
G: Is there anything else you would like to
tell us at this time about your years in the
Navy.
G: What is your opinion of the Veterans’
Administration, if you had contact?
J: No, I wouldn’t even make a guess.
G: Have you ever gone to a VA Hospital?
J: No.
G: Would you like to tell us how your family supported you during your years in the
J: I heard a lot about these operations and
work that __?__ teletype organization in San
Juan was interesting. That was theSan
Juan, Puerto Rico was the headquarters for
the Tenth Naval District. The Tenth Naval
District’s job was to put a screen near the
entrance of the Panama Canal to guard it
from German submarines because there
were German submarines in the Caribbean
and even in Chesapeake.
�G: I wouldn’t doubt it.
G: And where did you go to college?
J: That was very interesting. We had direct
radio communications with Washington, D.
C. My job and the others on our staff were
to keep these __?__operating.
J: I started at Bradley University in Peoria
for 2 years; the last 4 years after that, the
University of Oregon.
G: Must have been beautiful there.
G: Did you have any contact with the civilians in Puerto Rico down there?
J: Yes, we had 30 people on our little base
and we had 3 Puerto Rican cooks who were
fantastic and we had, because we were a
small base, we had what we called subsistence, so much extra a month and the cooks
could shop at the public markets. We’d
come for breakfast and you ordered what
you wantfabulous pork roast, beef roast.
The food was absolutely superb. We had
civilian women who did our laundry We
paid, of course, at that time and we had
young women, in San Juan, were very
friendly to the Navy. Some of the civilian
men, younger men, didn’t care too much
about us because
G: Little competition.
J: Little competition, I would say. Otherwise
the shops, the stores, the USO, the bus when
we went on tour, historic things, everybody
was friendly.
G: When you got back to the United States,
when you were discharged, did you back to
school then?
J Yes, it was.
G: Your main work was as an
J: Architect.
G: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
J: Well, after graduation in 1952, I came
back to Rockford. I got my license to practice. After 25 years, I had my own office in
Beloit, Wisconsin. The last few years I
worked for other firms __?__.
G: Is there anything else you would like to
tell us before we end the interview? When
you got home did you find the family life
changed by the shortages of the war? Was
the car put up on blocks?
J: No. Dad still had the same car and drove
it to work. It was the same old car. You
couldn’t buy a new car.
G: You couldn’t get any new ones.
J: I think clothing was hard to get.
G: And shoes, too.
J: No, as I said I finished high school and
graduated. Going to various offices discharge for discharge, one of the people says,
“Are you going to college”? I said, “Oh!”
He said “You know you have 4 years of
college with the GI Bill that is coming.” I
said, “Oh!” He said, “You must sign up
now.” I said, “Okay. I’ll sign up for it. So I
did and that got me a
J: I suppose. I think I did get a job that first
summer in a factory here as I was applying
to the University. I bought a suit. Before I
left San Juan, when I knew I was going
home, I went to a very nice clothing store
and it was a delightful dark brown brand
new suit.
�G: You were all ready.
J: I had to send it home from San Juan.
G: Your transition to civilian life was not
difficult?
J: No, it was not difficult. It was very easy. I
suppose because I hadn’t really been in the
bad areas and being almost in the heart of
the city, it seemed like I hadn’t been too far
away.
G: Well, I want to thank you for taking the
time to share these thoughts with us. We
really appreciate this interview.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Phyllis Gordon
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Herman Jerome Johnson
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Herman Jerome Johnson
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
12-Apr-94
Description
An account of the resource
Born May 17, 1926, Herman Johnson served as an electrician in the Navy from the spring of 1944 to July 1946. He died December 5, 2009.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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PDF Text
Text
Hilda (Redmond) Wills
Transcribed and edited by
Margaret Lofgren
Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
www.midwayvillage.com
Phone 397 9112
Final edit December 2018 by Martha Byrnes
�Hilda (Redmond) Wills
MCGINTY: Hello. Today is June 24th, 1999.
My name is John McGinty and I am a volunteer
with the Midway Village and Museum Center
which is participating in a statewide effort to
collect oral histories from Illinois citizens that
participated in the momentous events
surrounding World War II.
We are in the home of Hilda Wills who lives at
4220 Kenneth Avenue in Rockford, Illinois,
61101. Mrs. Wills participated in the war effort
as a civilian on the home front during World
War II. We are interviewing her about her
experiences in that War. If you’d introduce
yourself, please give us your name, where you
were born and when.
WILLS: My name is Hilda Marie Wills and I
was born in Bridgeport, Wisconsin. My birth
date? I was born in 23rd of December, 1920.
MCGINTY: What were the names of your
parents?
WILLS: My parents were Frank Redmond and
Josephine Faust Redmond.
MCGINTY: Okay. The names of your brothers
and sisters?
WILLS: My oldest sistershe’s still living.
She’s Frances Clark and she lives in Forreston.
I’ve got a sister, Opal, S(?) who lives in
LaCrosse, Wisconsin. I’ve got a sister, Ruby
Lee, who lives in Machesney Park, Illinois. I
have a sister, Iola, who lives just on the other
side of Beloit, and my sister, Norma Jean, she
lives in Edgerton, Wisconsin, and my brother
was named Franklin Redmond but he passed
away two years ago. He was in the Korean War.
MCGINTY: I see. Would you want to tell
anything more about your family before we start
on your war time experiences?
WILLS: I lived with other families. Let’s put it
that way. When they said there was going to be a
war I was living with a family named George
and
Dorothy
[inaudible]
up
in
WisconsinPrairie Du Chien, Wisconsin. He
worked in a garage and I worked for a lady that
was bedridden and she had a little baby and I
took care of the baby and took care of her.
He got up one morning and he said, “We’re not
even making a living here. Let’s go to Rockford,
Illinois.” He said, “Are you game?”
I said, “I’m ready to go any time you are.”
And so March 6th, 1939, we got in this old
Chevy, packed everything we could get in there,
tied them to the wheel on the back of the Chevy
and it took us all day to get to Rockford. We had
no place to live. We got here. We didn’t know
what we were going to do when we got here.
We hunted and hunted all over Rockford. We
ended upI don’t know if you remember the
Quonset huts they had down on Brooke Road.
We ended up in one of thewell it was really a
chicken coop! We ended up there. Then I
worked for Abie [Abe] Pekarsky. I had to get a
job. So I worked for Abie Pekarsky.
And from there on I started to do stuff for the
government. I was single and I was available so
when they found outsee, I’m ambidextrous. I
could use either hand. One was as good as the
other. They would pick me out of different
places I worked to run a government job.
MCGINTY: Where was this?
WILLS: the first one was Abie Pekarsky. That’s
Abie’s place on Harrison.
MCGINTY: How do you spell Pekarsky?
WILLS: P-E-K-A-R-S-K-Y.
MCGINTY: What did you do there?
WILLS: I helped his wife around the house
‘cause she was going to have a baby and she
couldn’t do everything by herself. I worked for
them and they were dear people, beautiful
people. He knew I had to get another job, you
�know, and so then I came clear over here on
Chestnut Street and I got a one room apartment.
The rooms you had to live in then is nothing like
what people think they were. You didn’t know if
you were going to get ate up with bed bugs or
whatever. All you had was a mattress. They
never even gave you a cover or a sheet to put on
your bed. This is the way it was years ago. The
stoves were a little hot plate but you had to put a
quarter in or it didn’t heat up. Most of the time
you didn’t have the quarter to put in so you went
without. I’m telling it like it was, because it was
hard. I took a bus and went all the way over on
11th Street to that furniture factory because they
got a government job in making cots for the…
army cots. So they put me to work on that and I
finished that one up.
MCGINTY: Do you know when that was?
WILLS: I can’t remember. But it was right after
that you know because this ended up all the way
down to 45. From there I got a job down to,
where you said you was, down on Cedar Street.
And I started to work there.
MCGINTY: What was the name of that?
WILLS: Rockford Metal Products. I think they
moved out in Loves Park or something. I started
to work there and then we started to get different
orders in from the government. The government
men would come out and give us an order. It
seemed to meI didn’t say anything but it
seemed every time they got an order they picked
me to run the machine. We run a riveter and I
was the only one that could run that. That was an
Army job.
As fast as it would come inwe needed it right
away500 pieced. Get it out as fast as you
could get it out, and that’s the way they had us
to do it.
Then we started making carburetors for jeeps.
That ended up you had to learn how to spot
weldautomatic spot weld. You had to test
them in grease. You had to run them through a
washer and then you had to bring them back.
Then you had to solder the pieces together. One
piece aroundhad to solder that together and
then from there it went over to another table and
then the two little pieces that you had made
before you brazed. They call it hot welding
because that’s hotter material you used. You had
to put them on there. You had to test them again
to see that they didn’t leak and that’s what we
started out with.
The government kept coming in wanting us to
do more jobs and so then they came and asked
me if I would work for the government and do
the jobs that they wanted. I said, “Anything to
help. I don’t care what it is. I’ll do it.”
So then they said, “All right. We’re going to go
to a bigger item.” And I said, “Well, that’s fine
with me.” But then they swore us in that we
couldn’t tell anybody. We couldn’t let anybody
know what we were doing or anything.
So then they said, “We’ll have to get another
place to do all of this,” because it was too open
there. So I said, “That’s all right.”
The week before we went to this other place,
I’ve got to tell you this. Barbara Hale came in.
so we all got to meet Barbara Hale. I thought
that was pretty neat cause she came in. She was
interested in what we were doing for the war.
We got this secret place. They went from
different shops and picked out certain people
from each shop. Now the only two I know was
myself and the lady I worked with. None other
revealed their names. We just worked.
MCGINTY: Where was this place?
WILLS: You had to go downtown. You know
where old Osco Drug use to be? You went down
that streetCourt Street?
MCGINTY: Church Street.
WILLS: You know where the old White Owl
cigar place was there right up from the Post
Office? Well we had to go downI met my
partner down there. We’d go down all dressed
up and then we walked through the cigar store
like we were going shopping, walked through
�the cigar store and walked down the steps.
Where we did all the work was down in the
basement like. And there wasI think there was
five men and there was six of us women that
worked there.
Now I only know the two. The girl that I worked
with, her first name was Jeanette. I don’t even
know what her last name was cause we all split
afterwards. We would go in all dressed up. The
men would come in dressed up. The women
came in dressed up and then we’d change. And
then we’d work our heads off.
But what we did then was harder work yet. We
did tail pipes for airplanes and you had to weld
fins in them. There was a little place near the
bottom part of the tail pipe. You had to put five
pins in it and weld them five times
eachautomatic. You had to weld on each side
and then the tail pipe was about three yards long
and then you welded all the way down how far it
went, you know, and then you turned it over and
you welded all the back down. Then you welded
that piece on the bottom. Then you had to test it
to make sure that there wasn’t a leak in it. If
there was you had to take it out and do it over
again and that was hard work.
They gave us a quota to put out and if you didn’t
get the quota out you had to stay until you did.
And that was hard. I’m telling you I thought I
wasn’t going to make it home some nights it was
so hard. We stayed there and we worked at all of
theseEvery time they brought something in it
seemed likeOf course I was the only one that
could use both hands. They would bring it over
and I would have to work some of them in
between doing the other smaller jobs that they
had. Boy that was hard work. They give us
quotas. You know what quotas was? Twentyeight tail pipes a day put out. And that was hard.
MCGINTY: And this was in the basement
underneath the cigar store?
WILLS: Yeah. And when the trucks came in to
pick it upsee they had what looked like a cigar
truck…
It backed in… but it went down the chute and
they pushed the stuff in and took off.
MCGINTY: This was on Church?
WILLS: Yeah. I don’t know if that building is
still there even. I haven’t been down there for
years.
MCGINTY: Is it in the same block as Osco’s?
WILLS: Yeah. You just went downjust on
the next you know, across the streetyou
know where the old post office is? Well, just
right up there on the corner wasright over here
on the right hand side was the cigar store.
MCGINTY: So it was north of the post office.
WILLS: We did all of that for the Army. I mean
they kept coming in and saying, “Not a word.
Not a word or we’re going to be bombed.” They
had everybody scared to death, you know. You
didn’t say one word.
Just a while back I talked to a man down here in
the drug store and I asked him. He lived here
pretty near all his life. I asked him if he knew
about it. He said, “No. We didn’t do that.” I said,
“Yeah.” But when it first started, my sister,
Ruby, came down here and we were walking
downI’ll tell you how dangerous it was. Camp
Grant was out there. They had all them boys
coming and they were pretty rowdy because they
didn’t want to fight the war to begin with. They
were pretty rowdy.
So we were walking down Kishwaukee Street
and one guy jumped out of the car and he took
my sister out and he walked her away. The other
one jumped out and held a gun right over my
heart. I stood there for I don’t know how long.
Finally the other kid brought my sister back and
they jumped in the car and left. What it was all
about, we never found out.
MCGINTY: What did they say to your sister?
WILLS: Nothing. Didn’t say nothing to me and
didn’t say nothing to her. Why they did it, we
�don’t know. Well, see people don’t understand
what a war is all about.
don’t mean just military. It was just Army or
Navy?
MCGINTY: The War had started then?
WILLS: Most of the time it was the Army that
came in but it was really for the military I think,
because it was the Air Force and the other
twothe jeeps. I put in some of the humor that
went along with this. We had a guy in the
[inaudible]. He was an electrician. I filed the
points and, of course, left-handed filed the
points. They told me I would never make it.
Well, I did. I even filed the points on my
machine to do the parts. I didn’t ask somebody
else to do it. I did it myself. We had a guyI
don’t know his last name either. We called him
Buster. And while I went to the washroom he
put Limburger cheese on the points of my
machine and it was hot when youand oh when
you did one thing he laughed his head off. We
did have a lot of humor and we kidded each
other ‘cause it was just like a family.
WILLS: It wasn’twell, they hadn’t bombed
Japan yet, but it still it was bad. You know it
was bad. Because you couldn’tIf you went out
you didn’t know what them soldiers was going
to do to you.
MCGINTY: Do you remember what year it was
you were making tailpipes.
WILLS: Yeah. 1941, I started.
MCGINTY: Before Pearl Harbor?
WILLS: Yeah. And then we started making
them full blast and then carburetors for jeeps.
We put a lot of them out because I wrote down
all the things that I did on them. I did the spot
welding because I could grab a piece with this
hand, grab a piece with this and put them
together on the machine and go four times on it.
Then throw it down here and grab two more and
you had to do 500 of them a day. That was a job.
MCGINTY: Do you remember what you made?
WILLS: We started out at $0.65 an hour. And I
made, I think when I told them I can’t stand to
work so hard, please can I have a raise? and so
this man from the Army came in. Of course,
they thought they were a lot better than we were.
Of course, they’re not person to person. He said,
“I can do better than you are.” I said, “Okay.
Here it is. Help yourself.” So I stood back and I
watched him. But he didn’t watch what I did. I
had slacks on I had a heavy apron on and I had a
bunch of rags on my lap because the sparks flew
every where. He sits down with his beautiful
blue serge suit. The first plop he burned a hole in
his suit. I was standing there trying to keep from
laughing. He said, “You knew that was going to
happen.” I said, “You knew I wasn’t making no
money, too, but you didn’t want to give me any
more.” I got a raise. Let’s see
MCGINTY: Now this is where? When you say
Army you mean that branch of the service. You
We worked together and one couldn’t do
something--we depended on the other. I mean
we really worked together. There was nobody
said, “I can do that better than you,” or nothing
else. And if you needed help you'd say, “Hey,
Hey!” and they’d come and help you. I know I
talked to a lot of people and they don’t
understand that when you’re doing stuff like this
the main thing is working together. We all
worked together. We put in an awful, awful lot
of work down there. My boss, his first name was
Rubin. I’ll never forget him either. This was way
back in the war. His name was Rubin.
MCGINTY: This is the guy at the cigar store
place?
WILLS: No. He worked in the one on Cedar
Street.
MCGINTY: Oh, okay.
WILLS: We didn’t really have a boss down at
the cigar store. We didn’t really havewe just
knew what we had to do and we did it. We
didn’t really have a boss. There was no one
came down there only the government once in a
while would come in.
�MCGINTY: How did you get paid? Did
somebody hand you the check or were there
WILLS: Yeah. Well, they paid us through the
one on Cedar Street so nobody else would know.
WILLS: No, we still did the carburetors for
Jeeps. Then we did parts for the army cots. I’m
just telling you what I know I did. The men over
there, now they did some heavy, heavy parts but
they wouldn’t tell us. It was so secret they
wouldn’t tell even anybody that’s working in
that shop.
MCGINTY: Oh, I see.
WILLS: So we would get our pay through
them.
MCGINTY: So everyone else thought you were
still working for them even though you were in a
different place.
WILLS: Yeah. And then I was on the safety
committee. You had to go around and check
everybody before you could go sit down and do
your work, which I did. One lady wouldn’t listen
and she came in drunk and she burned her thumb
off welding the pins into the airplane things. She
burned it right off, her thumb!
MCGINTY: How long did you work at the
place under the cigar store?
WILLS: Just until the War ended. When the
War ended you didn’t have no job no more. You
just walked out and that was it.
MCGINTY: So you were there from ’41 to ’45?
WILLS: Yeah. You just walked out and that
was all.
MCGINTY: Wow.
WILLS: No. See that’s how the jobsall of
themand I talked to different ones. I met one
of these ladies, her aunt did that down in
Tennessee, and she had the same experience as I
did. When the War was over and peace was
declared that was it. You had no job. You go
find another one. You go back to that other shop
or whatever you wanted to do.
MCGINTY: Could you tell us any more about
the different kind of things you made or was it
all just tail pipes?
MCGINTY: You worked on the same kind of
part then through the whole War?
WILLS: Yeah. I hadwe had to do the same
thing, like I said, them airplane things for they
were hard to do.
MCGINTY: Did they ever tell you what aircraft
it went towhat airplane?
WILLS: Well, the way they were talking it went
to the jetsthe fast ones that was flying right
over Japan. They are very secret about stuff like
thisvery, very, very, ‘cause they’re afraid you
might let it slip. Cause they warned usthey
said whereever they got that rumor that if they
knew what we were doing here in Rockford,
Rockford would have been bombed! And they
told us that two or three times. I don’t know,
maybe more than that, cause they would come
in… cause they were worried. The government
guys were worried. You could tell how they
acted and it was hard. I don’t know, because you
had to keep up with all that stuff to made sure it
got to the government where they couldthe
airplane placeso they could get them airplanes
out and some of them went down pretty
fastthem airplanes. So that was
MCGINTY: Do you remember what it was like
living in the Rockford community besides your
work? What people talked about? What they
thought about the War, or even before it
happened? Did you feel like war was going to
come before Pearl Harbor?
WILLS: Oh, yeah. See, we knew that before we
ever moved here. George Brookner, the one I
lived with there, he worked in a gas station and a
guy came in and he said, “The War is going to
hit pretty soon.” We heard, I don’t know if you
heard it way back, people always said the First
�World War hit in 1920. Twenty years later, we
have another war, which we did. You just watch
it’s going to happen. I know I heard that when I
was a kid. But all of this happened.
WILLS: Yeah. In the Navy. He was a gunner,
see.
MCGINTY: Do you remember what it was like
living in Rockford during the War? Did you
have to--like rationing or blackouts or anything?
WILLS: He was drafted in 43. Right after we
got married, he was drafted. And then there in
San Diego there was a fleet of ships and he was
in that fleet of ships in San Diego. When peace
was declared, he was on his way to Japan but he
got as far as Hawaii. We could hear them
screaming and screaming over the radio, you
know, them guys. They were coming home.
They didn’t have to go any further.
WILLS: Oh, yeah. We were rationed sugar and
shoes. You only got one pair of shoes you could
wear and, of course, I never wear shoes out so
I’d give my ticket to somebody else. Your sugar
and your coffee and different stuff like that and
that was rationed. You had to live in such awful
places. The places were so horrible that when I
came to Rockford, they were so horrible to live
in.
When my husband and I got married in 43 we
lived in an apartment. Well, it was a little
kitchen and a front room and bedroom together
and you shared the bathroom with three other
apartments and sometimes you got locked out.
That had them stoves in thereif you didn’t
have a quarter you didn’t get nothing cooked,
cause you had to put the quarter in every time.
Didn’t seem like it run long enough to even cook
a meal. Then you had to put another quarter in.
I went through that for so long. It wasone
place I lived they were so full of [inaudible]
that was Noble owned it. “Old man Noble,”
we called him. And bedbugs. You couldn’t
sleep. The bed bugs [would] eat you up. So I
finally got a different place. Moved in with two
girls then. They were married and they each had
a baby and they put too much on me. I couldn’t
keep going for what work I was doing so I had
to find me another place.
MCGINTY: What was your husband’s name?
WILLS: Leonard Wills. He was a… I got to
show you what he did. That’s him. He was a
gunner.
MCGINTY: In the Navy?
MCGINTY: When did he enlist? Do you know?
MCGINTY: Did he know the kind of work you
were doing back here?
WILLS: No. He didn’t know until just a year
ago. I never told him.
MCGINTY: Really?
WILLS: No, I never told him. I never told
nobody. I kept it a secret. They told me I had to
and I did.
MCGINTY: Yeah. I guess. What changed your
mind?
WILLS: I figured it was long enough. I said I
will be dead and gone pretty soon. It’s about
time somebody knows what went on in
Rockford cause when we first came to
Rockford, it was nothing like it is today.
Do you know there was only two black families
here when I came to Rockford? We didn’t have
buses. We had street cars with that rod across
there and it kept falling off and you’d stop in the
middle of the street. See, I took the bus
everywhere I went. I had nobody. I was by
myself really. I just took the bus where ever I
wanted to go. I know exactly… I just knew
directions. I could get anywhere’s in Rockford.
MCGINTY: Do you remember any other
hardships during the War besides rationing?
WILLS: Oh, yeah. Because lot of times… see,
you didn’t make very much money. Whatever
�you did, you didn’t make enough money to buy
your food. If you paid $6 a week for rent you
didn’t have enough to buy food. I had a
hamburger a day. That was about my limit.
MCGINTY: Wow.
WILLS: Cause that’s all the money I had but I
never complained. Of course, I lived such a life
all my life since I was a little kid, you know. We
just got in there and we all worked. I never heard
any of them people I worked with and they had
nothing either. I mean we were poor. You know
when you work for the government, they didn’t
pay you enough for to keep you going. Didn’t.
See, when you have to take a bus back and forth
all the time and buy your own food and pay for
your own room and everything, you ain’t got
nothing left.
MCGINTY: You remember where you were
when you heard about Pearl Harbor?
WILLS: I was at my mother-in-law’s and we
lived on Short Corbin up there. I can just see the
house. We were living on Short Corbin up there.
We heard it over the radio and everybody was
screaming and hollering. And if you know there
was a tavern that used to be there, and another
tavern on the other side. We lived in the back
there of it. You could hear… they all ran out the
door of them taverns and everything and you
never heard so much screaming and singing…
And, oh, they just really went wild!
MCGINTY: Is this when it ended in Europe or
when it ended in Japan?
WILLS: In Japan. It ended in Japan. I can still
hear them people shouting and singing and I got
their picture, too. I’ll just show you. Here’s one
that was over there. This one here, he was over
there.
MCGINTY: The brother.
MCGINTY: So you were at work when you
heard about it?
WILLS: No. These is all different guys. This is
Bruno Paletto and this is Cockell. I forgot what
his last name is. This is Joe Martini. He was
over there but he got his leg shot off. He came
back then afterwards, but he was in the hospital
quite a while. Those are the ones that was in
Japan. These are the ones that went to Vietnam.
They were all over there with my husband.
WILLS: Mm hm.
MCGINTY: Was your husband wounded?
MCGINTY: What was your reaction and the
people around you?
WILLS: No. They told him he’d go deaf before
he died. When the torpedo shipsit’s such a
loud blast that they said it would affect their
ears, all that was there.
WILLS: I wasI worked so many places. I
think I was working at Rockford Furniture the
one that used to be over here on Fairgrounds
Park. There used to be big furniture store there. I
was floor lady boss over the second floor.
WILLS: I wasn’t surprised. No, I wasn’t
surprised because I’m one of these that read and
I’m one of these that listen to everything. I
wasn’t a bit surprised when they said Japan was,
you know, it was bombed. I wasn’t surprised. I
had a friend that went over there and she was
inright by that where they bombed it, only she
was back into that camp by it, and she was back
there. Of course, she called home then and said,
“I don’t know if I want to go any further or not.
“They bombed.” She said, “Oh, that was awful.”
MCGINTY: Do you remember where you were
when you heard that the War was over?
MCGINTY: Do you remember what kind of
ship he was on?
WILLS: Torpedo ship. They told them don’t
grab for a life jacket. Grab for a [inaudible]
You’re going to be down in the water so don’t
even grab for it because it ain’t even going to
work, because they said they’d just blow them
sky high and that’d be it. But that was them
ships that they had over there at that time. You
can see what they are.
�MCGINTY: When did he finally come home
then?
WILLS: He come homeI think on one of
them pictures it’s 45 I think. I think it says 45
on one of them. Yeah. He came home. That’s
the ship he was on. He came home right after
that in 45.
MCGINTY: I bet you were happy to see him?
WILLS: Well, you didn’t know if they were
going to make it back or what, you know.
MCGINTY: You know Camp Grant was in
Rockford. Could you tell me if you had any
connection with anybody out there, or people
who trained or worked there or anything like
that?
WILLS: Yeah. But that was secret, too. A lot of
thiswhen you can’t talk about something, you
can’t get too much information, because they
don’t want to talk to you because you can’t talk
back.
MCGINTY: Do you remember anything about
other people’s attitude toward the War? Was
there people that you knew that were in favor of
it? Or people that were against? Or their opinion
changed as the war went on? Any kind of those
kinds of memories?
WILLS: Oh, I heardof course, you hear the
older people at that time cause to me it was the
older people that would tell, “This is a bunch of
nonsense. They’re getting our guys killed!” And
all this and that.
WILLS: Not when I worked for the
government. They wouldn’t let us associate with
any soldiers or anything. It was so secret that
they advised us against it. If we met them, we
just said Hi and go on, you know, but we never
stopped to talk to any of them.
A lot of them didn’t put two and two together
that if they had to do it, it was for our good. And
a lot of them, you couldn’t make them
understand that. It was just that they were killing
our boys. And I would try… sometimes I’d say,
“Most of them will be back. You watch. They’re
going to come back.” What else could you say?
You just comforted them.
MCGINTY: What do you remember that you
knew about Camp Grant at the time? Did you
know anything about what was going on out
there?
MCGINTY: Did you know the soldiers or
sailors that were lost in the War?
WILLS: Oh, yeah. I knew mostly what was
going on because Camp Grant was just down
from when I was living at Abie Pekarsky’s.
There was… They would say we had to train so
hard today and we had to do this. You’d hear
different ones say that but you never talked to
them to get all the details, cause I’m a very
good listener and I would hear them telling
about, “Boy, that was rough that we had to do!”
or something like that. I guess they really did put
them through an awful lot because they knew
where they were going to go and they had to be
pretty tough.
MCGINTY: did you know about the prisoner of
war camp out there?
WILLS: Oh, I did at one time. I can’t think of
it. I know one soldier that came back from Iwo
Jima when they lifted the flag. He’s still here.
MCGINTY: In Rockford. Do you know his
name?
WILLS: Yeah. Matthew Bridges.
MCGINTY: He was in the Marines?
WILLS: Yeah. He helped lift the flag. He was
on Iwo Jima. His name is Matt Bridges. He lives
out in Machesney Park.
MCGINTY: Do you know other service people
that were wounded that you knew of?
WILLS: Yeah. That’s my brother-in-law. The
one that was living in LaCrosse. He got
�[inaudible]. He got wounded in the stomach over
there.
MCGINTY: So you remember what people
thought about F.D.R. and has that changed over
time?
MCGINTY: Over where?
WILLS: Oh. He was in Germany. He got
wounded in the stomach in Germany. He just
died last year. I knew different ones that came
back and would tell me different stuff, but I
can’t remember all their names cause there’s a
lot of people I didn’t know real close but you
heard their names. What can you say? I try my
best.
MCGINTY: Do you remember ever going
through an air raid drill or a blackout or anything
preparing for a possible attack here in Rockford?
WILLS: No, I don’t think so. They talked pretty
nice about him. The only one they didn’t like is
Nixon. I didn’t like him either.
MCGINTY: That was a little later.
WILLS: Yeah. Then this one here[pointing to
a photograph] I’m going to tell you. Now this is
my cousin. He lives in California. You can’t
guess what his job is.
MCGINTY: What?
WILLS: He makes these bombs.
WILLS: They did have an air raid drill one time
that I can remember and about scared everybody
to death!
MCGINTY: Which bombs?
MCGINTY: Do you remember what you had to
do?
WILLS: All these ones that’s going off. He
goes from one place to the other and he’s one of
them guys that works on little bitty parts and
makes the bombs.
WILLS: You just hit the floor and put your
hands over your head. You couldn’t go no place.
MCGINTY: Was this in the factory?
WILLS: Yeah. You just hit the floor and then
we [inaudible]. There’s nothing else you could
do.
MCGINTY: Did they ever have blackouts here
where you couldn’t turn on lights outside.
WILLS: No. They were pretty good at that. I
don’t remember one time that they had us to turn
out all the lights. No, they were pretty good at
that.
Well, they were so scared here in Rockford. I
got to say that. They were scared because when
you work with a bunch of people and you only
know one person’s name out of 10 people you
work with, you have to be pretty scared. They
really worked. They might not have been in the
service doinglike in the Army, Navy or
Marines or anything, but they did just as hard
work as any of them guys. They did.
MCGINTY: You mean, this is now?
WILLS: Every so often, it’s such tedious work
they put him in a mental hospital for a while and
then they go back to work again. Now he’s done
that since I don’t know when.
He was here. He came here to see me. He moved
to California when he was a kid. And then he
was down here to Champaign for a while. Then
he went to Battle Creek, Michigan, and working
on them there, and then they sent him back to
California. See I got from all parts of the War. I
just about got them all.
Now this is Vietnam [pointing to another
photograph]. There’s my oldest son and that’s
my youngest one.
MCGINTY: I hope they got back okay.
WILLS: No. There’s my youngest son up there.
He had half of his head taken off.
MCGINTY: Oh, boy.
�WILLS: He was in the hospital 7 ½ months.
And he went to Germany, but [then] he went to
Vietnam. He’s got 12 medals from Vietnam.
MCGINTY: Is he still in Rockford?
WILLS: No. He lives in Durand now. But that’s
what I got. I didn’t get the other pictures but I
had a bunch of all these boys that went with my
kids. All went to the service.
Everyone that used to come to my house which I
had 12 here every weekend. I took all the
neighborhood kids in because their parents
drank and everything and I don’t believe in that
stuff. I took them all in, and most went. I wrote
five letters a day for 2½ years. I wrote to all of
them kids cause their parents didn’t write to
them, T\they just left them! And I wrote five
letters a day.
I got to tell you a little funny story now. It
wasn’t all hard work. It was… You had little
funny things happen to you. They put me on an
ether tank. If you don’t know what an ether tank
is it’s like an [oxygen] tank but it’s got ether in
it. They put me on that. It cleans off your
material like your carburetors and this, you
know, and cleans just as slick as a whistle and
then you can do anything else with them.
So they put me on that. Well, they didn’t tell me
it was an ether tank. So the next thing I knew
where I was at I was walkingI had Ruebin on
one side and Buster on the other side--and I was
walking up and down the railroad tracks. I was
sound asleep from the ether tank!
still get paid for it.” She would work. She
wasyou know you don’t meet too many
people like, that but she helped me because like
I said, I only weighed 90 pounds. I was just a
little tiny old skinny thing. She would help me.
When you put these other ones onyou had to
put them on a rack and then you’d go down and
then you welded it. I looked up. I didn’t have
nobody putting it on the rack. She was out on the
floor. She passed out. So we had to pick em up
and take them and get them going again.
MCGINTY: She was weak from disease or
hunger?
WILLS: Well, it was so hot.
MCGINTY: The heat.
WILLS: See, she was between the welder and
the soldering tanks and between the two, I
looked for her and she was gone and she was on
the floor behind.
But she wouldn’t give up. She kept on working.
Now this was a little Black girl. She just started.
“I’ll make it,” [she said]. “The rest can go to the
Army and the rest can do stuff,” she said. “I’ll
make it, too.” And she did.
She stuck right in there but she didn’t go to us
when we went and done all them tail pipes and
all them other things. She didn’t go with us.
They just picked a few out. Some of the other
ones came from the other shops where you never
met them before any way, but they never looked
up at you.
MCGINTY: Oh, boy.
WILLS: You had different little things, you
know. You got to remember some of the good
times you had, too, because, like I said…
Now this hereWhen I was making these I got
to tell you there was a Black lady that worked
with me, and she had three sons in the war at the
same time we was working down there. She
worked and I mean that lady could work. If I
didn’t feel good she’d take one look at me, “I’ll
help you. I’ll do most of your jobs and you’ll
I can still see them sitting there with theWe
had the helmets on. You put the helmetsyou
know how you weld and they had to order me an
extra dark one because when I was a kid I was
blinded by the snow. When it was bright, then I
couldn’t see nothing. They would order me a
special one.
Then you had to put these gloves on that had all
the leather and stuff on here. Lot of times when
you got through they were welded right to your
�fingers. You couldn’t hardly get your gloves off.
That’s how we welded. Think of all them years
doing that stuff. It was fun though.
people don’t realize what other people do for
us.”
MCGINTY: Sure.
MCGINTY: Is there anything about your
memories of World War II that you’d like
people today to know or not forget about?
WILLS: Yeah. I’d like them not forget You
see, they have forgotten, because I’m one of
these remember all this, because like I said, I
had people in my family in every war. I had
somebody in every war.
When it came to Vietnam, I had my two boys
that went in the service. And then I had all these
-- 12, 14 boys -- that was here every weekend. I
had all of them to gonow this is in church, I
have to tell you anyway. I went to church
Memorial Day. I thought nobody thinks about
what people went through in the service so I
dressed with a white skirt on, a red blouse and a
blue jacket. I walked into church. When church
was about ready to leave out they never
mentioned it; just like the boys didn’t do
nothing. Nobody worked for the government,
nobody did nothing.
That got to me, so I stood up and I told them,
“See how I’m dressed. This is Memorial Day.
Let us remember the people that worked in the
shops and did different things and all the
soldiers that went in to protect our country for
you, for me and for everybody else.” Everybody
in church was crying. They never even thought
of it that way. What would you say. Ain't that
right?
MCGINTY: Sure.
WILLS: I just got up. I couldn’t take no more,
because if I hadn’t seen all this and went through
all this and with these boys that went to
Vietnam. Oh that was terrible. One boy that
went to Vietnam, he was fighting on this side of
the mountain, my son was on this side and they
couldn’t get together. Now don’t think that
wasn’t heart-breaking. So I just stood up and
told everybody. I said, “I want you to go home
and think about it because this is terrible when
WILLS: I don’t want to get credit for all the
things I did. I did it because I wanted to do it. I
felt that that was my duty, my part, even if I was
justlike I said, I had a hamburger a day and
that was about it. I didn’t starve to death. I’m
still going and I’m 78 years old. So you see it
didn’t kill me.
MCGINTY: Would you please describe again
the location of the secret basement under the
cigar store?
WILLS: Yes. When we went to work down at
this place where it was secret, no one else was
supposed to know about it. We went down
where the Osco Drug is on Court Street or
Church Street and you go over a ways and there
was a cigar store right there and it was right up
from the post officekitty corner.
MCGINTY: So on the corner of Church and
Green Street?
WILLS: It’s not right on the corner. It’s over
just a little ways from the corner.
MCGINTY: So it’s on Church between Green
and Chestnut?
WILLS: Mm hm. Because sometimes we would
come out, and we would walk down the street
and that big furniture [store] was down there on
Main. We would walk down there and we would
pretend we were going shopping in that big
store, which we weren’t, but we would go in and
look around, you know. So we walked in, this
lady I worked with.
I got to tell you this humor one, too. Walked in
and she always did her hair up and she had
blonde hair. She was kind of fussy how she
looked. So she went out the door first. I came
out later. A bird flew over and did his job right
in the middle of her beautiful hair!
�MCGINTY: Was this cigar store on the east or
west side of Church Street?
there was nobody in the store then we went on
down to our work.
WILLS: If you go from State Street, it’s on the
right hand side.
MCGINTY: So there was a door in the store
that took you to the basement.
MCGINTY: Away from the river side.
WILLS: Mm hm.
WILLS: Yeah.
MCGINTY: Could you see that from the front
of the store or was it hidden somewhere?
MCGINTY: It’s on the west side. Okay. You
don’t remember the address, do you?
WILLS: No. There was a storeThere was one
of them cigar stores moved out here off of up
there on West Stateyou know where them
motels are? In thatOne of them moved up
there but I don’t know if it’s still there or not.
MCGINTY: You don’t remember the name of
the store?
WILLS: White Owl. No, we didn’t call it White
Owl. I used to order cigars all the time cause I
worked for Oscos and I ordered cigars and
everything and I ordered from them, but I’m not
sure if that’s the one that moved or not.
WILLS: Oh yeah. It was like it wasn’t secret. It
was just like that was their storage bin. And
that’s what they pretended it was, I guess. We
would walk in but we had to look around to
make sure there was nobody in the store at the
time and then we could go down.
MCGINTY: So the owners of the store knew
what was going on in the basement.
WILLS: One guy. He was always there when
everybody was there.
MCGINTY: He knew what was going on in the
basement.
WILLS: Mm hm. He had to.
MCGINTY: When you entered this basement,
did you go into the store first and then down or
was there a door outside that you went straight?
MCGINTY: And where were these deliveries
and pick ups made? Was there an alley behind
the store?
WILLS: I don’t know how the men and the
other women went in ‘cause we all went in at
different times. Two went in at a time; I don’t
know how they went in cause the men were
always there when we got there, so how they got
in, I don’t know. They never did tell us.
WILLS: No. It was on Main Street right up
from the Post Office. When the truck went in it
went… You see, some of these trucks how they
go down and sloped into the building?
When we went in, we would meet down there by
Oscos and we’d say where shall we shop today
like we were really going shopping and so then
we would walk down the street and we would
walk in the front door of the cigar store.
WILLS: Yeah. It went right down to the inside.
MCGINTY: Of the cigar store?
WILLS: But they knew who we were. So we’d
look around. If there was somebody in the store,
then we would pretend we were shopping. If
MCGINTY: What do you mean? It went into
the building?
MCGINTY: Kind of a driveway?
WILLS: And went right in
MCGINTY: Was that off of Green Street or off
of Church Street?
�WILLS: Where the Post Office is. It was right
off of where the Post Office is. They would
come up this street and turn in here because they
could go down that driveway right into the
place.
MCGINTY: Okay.
WILLS: That’s where they picked it up.
MCGINTY: So the truck was actually down at
the basement level when it was loaded and
unloaded.
for the Army, but they only would come in and
give them an order and then they’d do it and
they never told you what you were doing. And
they’d send that one out.
Then I was working down here to Washburn’s
and that was after the war. The Army neededI
don’t know what it was. They didn’t tell me
either. It was a thing that you had to rivet
together. They took me offI was making flour
sifters cause we made kitchen utensilstook
me off my job and run 500 pieces of that. That
was for the Army, too, and you made 65 cents
an hour!
WILLS: Mm hmm.
MCGINTY: You don’t remember what it was?
MCGINTY: And it looked like a cigar truck?
WILLS: As far as I could tell because they
wouldn’t let us out to see too much of what went
on. The pick ups and deliveries was in the
middle of the night; it never was during the day.
MCGINTY: So you never saw
WILLS: No. I just They told us how they did
it, and we seen the driveway down in there, you
know, how they went down in there and they
said, We can’t have anybody coming in during
the day or anything because we don’t want
anybody to see it.” That’s how secret it was.
MCGINTY: Sure. So who’d you tell first when
you decided?
WILLS: Charlie. Charlie down at the drug
store. Him and I talked because he knew I
worked in a drug store, and I could talk about
things, and he’d ask me different things about
the drug store because I worked in Oscos over
seven years.
He would ask me different things. We used to
kid about. I don’t know why, all of a sudden one
day I asked him if he knew about that. He said,
“Why don’t you call up the newspaper and call
up everybody?” he said, “So people know how
much Rockford did for the Army?” I said, “All
they ever say is there was Camp Grant. If you
notice, that’s all they say.” Now Rockford
Standard Furniture over there, they made cots
WILLS: No they never told me what it was.
They just said we need this. The Army needs it.
MCGINTY: What did it look like?
WILLS: It was a thing about that long, about
that wide and about that thick of metal. Then it
had a canvas that you had to put over it but you
had to rivet through the canvas, through that
little hole in the top and then you pulled it back
like this. I still don’t know what it was.
MCGINTY: So it was a piece of metal with
canvas riveted to it?
WILLS: Mm hmm.
MCGINTY: Did it have sort of a pocket in it
that you could put something in it?
WILLS: No. That’s all it was. I still don’t know
what it was for because they never did tell me.
You see, things that you do for the Army is not
what you do for other people. Some things you
know a little about. Other things you don’t know
beans about.
MCGINTY: What is Washburn’s? Is that a
company?
WILLS: That was, but that’s not there no more
either. It used to be down herekitchen utensils
they used to make. The baskets, you know, they
�used to make fry baskets and all this stuff. Oh
yeah. I worked there for a long time, too. I like
all kinds of jobs.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This tape ended here.
Hilda Wills died April 21, 2001 in Rockford.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
John McGinty
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Hilda Wills
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hilda Wills
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
24-Jun-94
Description
An account of the resource
Born December 23, 1920, Hilda Wills became a welder during World War II. She died April 21, 2001.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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95e09d389b4393a9f03fb4f77932e6dd
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Main Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts and neighborhoods of North Main Street and South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois stretching from Whitman Street at the north, to Montague Street at the south.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1900-1930
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Illinois National Bank & Trust Co., Rockford, lll.
Description
An account of the resource
Side of the Illinois National Bank & Trust building prominently featuring its "Drive In Banking" facilities.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
E. C. Kropp Co.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1970
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109.832
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Illinois National Bank & Trust Company
Main Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
-
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f589a1034cc7d706723e4b96af7e5761
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Main Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts and neighborhoods of North Main Street and South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois stretching from Whitman Street at the north, to Montague Street at the south.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1900-1930
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Illinois National Guard Armory, Rockford, Ill.
Description
An account of the resource
A color graphic representation of the structure with a mailbox in front.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
E. C. Kropp Co.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1940
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109(I).571
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Illinois National Guard Armory
Main Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
-
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80fbf145db037e4568976b3918321200
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Main Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts and neighborhoods of North Main Street and South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois stretching from Whitman Street at the north, to Montague Street at the south.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1900-1930
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Illinois National Guard Armory, Rockford, Ill. [B&W]
Description
An account of the resource
A slightly more side to front black and white photo of the Armory building.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Paul R. Vogel Co.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1940
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109(I).578
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Illinois National Guard Armory
Main Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
-
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aca9718cd58c1050e279015bc248e805
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Main Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts and neighborhoods of North Main Street and South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois stretching from Whitman Street at the north, to Montague Street at the south.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
circa 1900-1930
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Illinois National Guard Armory, Rockford, Illlinois
Description
An account of the resource
A "C. T. Art-Colortone" view of a Waldsmith photo of the Armory building.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Curteich-Chicago
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1940
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109(I).575
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
Illinois National Guard Armory
Main Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
-
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a424312ae01b46f415504785f447dbca
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
State Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business districts of East State Street and West State Street in Rockford, Illinois. The majority of views cover the era of 1900-1930.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1990
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
J. C. Peers & Son, Jewelers and Opticians, 204 West State Street, Rockford, Illinois.
Description
An account of the resource
Looking inside J. C. Peers & Son store - jewelry cases.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Ferguson Post Card Co.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1930
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
81.136.167
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
J. C. Peers & Son
Midway Village Museum
Rockford Illinois
West State Street
-
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PDF Text
Text
Joe Geraghty
Transcribed by Volunteer Elaine Carlson
Edited June 14, 2006 and December 2018
Midway Village and Museum Center
9766 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61109
www.midwayvillage.com
Phone 815 397 9112
�Joe Geraghty
INTERVIEWER CHARLES NELSON:
Today is March the 16th, 1994. My name is
Charles Nelson. I am a volunteer at Midway
Village and Museum Center in Rockford,
Illinois, which is cooperating in a statewide
effort to collect oral histories from Illinois
citizens that participated in the momentous
events of World War II. We are in the office
of Midway Village and Museum Center interviewing Mr. Joe Geraghty who served in
a branch of the United States Armed Forces
during World War II. We are interviewing
him about his experiences in that war.
NELSON: Joe, would you please start by
introducing yourself to us? Please give us
your full name, the date and place of birth.
We would also like to have the names of
each one of your parents.
GERAGHTY: My name is Joseph Geraghty.
I was born February 27, 1920. My father
was Joseph Geraghty, Sr. and my mother
was Evelyn [Heath] Geraghty. They both
lived in Rockford. My father’s family goes
back to the 1800s in Rockford, Illinois.
NELSON: Would you like to give us their
names?
GERAGHTY: My grandfather’s name was
James Geraghty and my grandmother’s was
“Grandmother”. [Laughter] I forget her first
name.
NELSON: How about any brothers or sisters.
GERAGHTY: I have two brothers, Robert
and Gerald Geraghty and they both flew in
the Navy as I did in World War II. They
were Navy pilots.
NELSON: Are there any details about your
parents and/or your family that you would
like to give?
GERAGHTY: My parents were in business
in Rockford. My grandparents were in business in Rockford since the 1800s in the military and costume business. That lasted up to
approximately 1975 or ’80 something.
NELSON: What was life like for you before
the War specifically during 1941?
GERAGHTY: Prior to the War I attended
St. Thomas High School and graduated in
’38 and I had taken engineering schooling at
the time. And the position opened up at
Camp Grant with the engineers, which I accepted. I stayed with this company in Rockford at Camp Grant for the construction of
the camp for about nine months. Then I left
Rockford and went to Des Moines, Iowa, for
about a year at the same type of work. This
was the construction of a powder plant north
of Des Moines. Then I went from there up to
the Badger Ordinance Works up in Baraboo,
Wisconsin. That was in 1941. So I was involved with determining the progress of
construction of these camps.
NELSON: What thoughts did you have
about the War before the United States became directly involved in the conflict?
GERAGHTY: Well, I was aware that things
were building up because of my work. They
were pushing for powder plants to be constructed in a hurry and Camp Grant. I knew
there was a military build up in the United
States and I was also aware that the Germans were pushing the Europeans around at
that time and I was frankly not impressed
with their actions.
�NELSON: How did you hear of the December 7th, 1941, bombing of Pearl Harbor by
the Japanese?
GERAGHTY: I happened to be driving my
car on South Main Street in Rockford, Illinois, and heard it on the radio.
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or developed any feeling about what was
taking place in Europe or Asia?
GERAGHTY: Yes, I felt that we were helping the English who were our allies and I
felt thought that we would have to do a lot
more to help them because they were having
a hard time with the Germans at the time.
NELSON: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
GERAGHTY: Yes, I do. Right.
NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of
Hitler’s speeches, ideas or actions?
to national security or any other consideration?
GERAGHTY: I’d say all of those considerations influenced me. I have two brothers and
as I said, one of themall three of us were
in the Navy Air Corps program. My middleaged brother, Robert, had joined the Navy
almost six months prior to myself and my
youngest brother.
NELSON: When and where were you inducted?
GERAGHTY: I was inducted in Chicago in
the fall of ’42.
NELSON: Do you have any special memories of this event?
GERAGHTY: Yes. It was in the Board of
Trade Building in Chicago. Raising my right
hand and being sworn in was very impressive.
NELSON: How old were you then?
GERAGHTY: Yes. At this point I read some
of it in the paper and I knew they were making roads in parts of Europe. They were going into Poland and places like that. Taking
over areas with their war machines.
NELSON: What events led to your entry
into military service? Were you already in
service, drafted or did you volunteer?
GERAGHTY: I volunteered. Since I was
with the war effort in engineering, I wasn’t
accepted immediately. I volunteered the first
part of 1942 and I was accepted in October
of ’42, in the Navy Air Force.
NELSON: Was your response to entering
military service influenced by family and
friends attitudes towards the War, the threat
GERAGHTY: Let’s see. I was 22.
NELSON: What happened after you were
inducted?
GERAGHTY: I was sent tofirst base, I
went to Monmouth College for about six
months and after that I went to the University of Chicago for probably about four
months. Then I went to Iowa preflight for
my physical training and also navigation and
academic training.
NELSON: What did you think of the training?
GERAGHTY: I was impressed with the
training. We had a lot of, not only academic
�work, but a lot of physical work to accomplish. It was very thoroughly put together.
friends and everything, I thought, was well
done.
NELSON: Did anything special happen
there?
NELSON: What was your military unit?
GERAGHTY: I was in the B5 program.
GERAGHTY: In my training?
NELSON: Yes.
GERAGHTY: I had preflight training at
Notre Dame in 1942. In my training and flying was located at five different bases.
NELSON: And that was the Navy Air
Corps?
GERAGHTY: Navy Air Corps the B5 program.
NELSON: What were your assigned duties?
NELSON: What other training camps did
you attend?
GERAGHTY: Iowa pre-flight school. I
trained at Minneapolis, [inaudible] and also
graduated at Pensacola and different bases at
Pensacola and then I graduated from there.
GERAGHTY: You mean prior to
NELSON: At this time.
GERAGHTY: During training?
NELSON: Yes.
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or passes?
GERAGHTY: Yes, I did.
NELSON: How did you use them?
GERAGHTY: I was able to come home
once or twice during my transfer of bases
and I seemed to accomplish that. I think I
was home maybe twice.
NELSON: What do you recall of this period
about the places you were stationed, the
friends you made and your association with
civilians?
GERAGHTY: Well, the program and training was pretty strict. They kept us in base.
We would get leave probably on Saturday
evening, afternoon and evening, and maybe
Sunday afternoon. That was about it through
that total training period but I made a lot of
GERAGHTY: Prior to joining the Navy I
had CMTC military training. That’s Civilian
Military Training Corp in the Chicago area.
Consequently I had two years training that
most of the fellows didn’t have, so they assigned me as Battalion Commander for the
Cadets and I have that type
NELSON: This is participation in the conflict. Where did you go after completing
your basic military training?
GERAGHTY: After Pensacola, I was transferred to a field outside of Miami for torpedo bomber training. I graduated with my
youngest brother. The two of us went
through all the training together and when
we were commissioned, he went into “Hell
Divers” and I was sent to Torpedo Bombing
Training School.
NELSON: When you were sent overseas
how did you get there?
�GERAGHTY: The first part of the War, after initial training in torpedo bombing, I was
trained into night flying and was assigned to
a night flying torpedo bomber squadron stationed in Maine, and we had a section of the
North Atlantic that we flew at night. We did
searches for German subs off the coast at
night.
ros and Kamikazes were coming in at night,
so they switched us as fast as they could and
they sent us out to the Pacific. Then I joined
the Night Fighter Squadron out there. By the
time I arrived in the Pacific that particular
problem ceased to exist so I was stationed in
Honolulu.
NELSON: Were you ever on a carrier?
NELSON: What did you think of the nation’s War effort up to this point?
GERAGHTY: The nation’s effort everybody was going all out. Everybody did everything they could do to help the War efforts
along. I thought it was 100% go for everybody.
NELSON: Tell us about your experience of
entering your first combat zone.
GERAGHTY: My first combat zone was
basically flying off the North Atlantic at
night with radar searching for German subs
that would be… that would surface at night
to recharge their batteries. That would be my
first experience.
NELSON: Can you list for us in order of
occurrence all subsequent combat actions in
which you were involved?
GERAGHTY: Other than searching for
German subs… this happened about… I
was doing this for approximately 12 months.
This was night flying. The North Atlanwas
very clean of German subs [inaudible] and
we carried depth charges rather than torpedoes with a sonobuoy and we would drop
our sonobuoys We had five of those. We
tried to ascertain the direction of the sub and
we dropped the depth charges. After that
this probably lasted about 12 months.
Things were quiet and they changed our
whole squadron to night fire squadron because in the Pacific there were Japanese ze-
GERAGHTY: I was on five different carriers, yes. I belong to the Tail Hook Association. You have to have a hundred [inaudible]
or more.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change
as combat continued?
GERAGHTY: Not really. I don’t think so.
You just knew you were in a war and the
time that’s involved. I don’t think my attitude changed, to my knowledge.
NELSON: Did you write many letters
home?
GERAGHTY: Yes. I corresponded with my
folks quite oftenprobably once a month at
least.
NELSON: Did you receive many letters or
packages, if so, how often?
GERAGHTY: I received letters and a few
packages, very few, but it was always very
welcome to receive letters.
NELSON: What type of things did you receive in packages?
GERAGHTY: I got cookies a couple times
and a few things like that, all crumbled up.
NELSON: Did most of the other men write
and receive letters?
�GERAGHTY: Oh, yes. There was a mail
every so often would come through and
would be distributed amongst all the troops.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of
friendship with many or some of your combat companions?
GERAGHTY: Yes. To this day I still have
some good friends of the service.
NELSON: Did you ever have to help retrieve a wounded buddy from the field of
combat?
GERAGHTY: Some of my buddies would
go down in the ocean, and [we would]
search for them, one time for 14 hours
straight, but we couldn’t find anything. That
type of situation.
NELSON: You didn’t get involved with any
foreign prisoners of war camps or anything
of that nature?
GERAGHTY: No.
NELSON: What was the highlight occurrence of your combat experience or any other experience you can remember?
GERAGHTY: One night we located a German sub in the North Atlantic [inaudible]
torpedo bombers [but] they had decided to
surrender, and they were surfaced, and we
were told not to drop any charges or anything like, that so that would be one of the
NELSON: They were later captured?
GERAGHTY: Yes, they
NELSON: The Navy come in and captured
them?
GERAGHTY: Yeah.
NELSON: Tell us what you and the other
men did to celebrate America’s traditional
family holidays such as Thanksgiving and
Christmas.
GERAGHTY: On board ship or on the bases
we normally would have turkey on Thanksgiving. I don’t know where they got it all.
The food was excellent in the Navy. I can
say that. At Christmas time we would have
very special meals also.
NELSON: When and how did you return to
the United States after the end of the War?
GERAGHTY: I was in the Pacific at the end
of the War, and then they started disbanding
our squadrons and I joined a Utility Squadron out in [inaudible] at Honolulu. And I
stayed an extra six months in Hawaii and
then I came to the United States.
NELSON: What happened to you when you
arrived in the United States?
GERAGHTY: I flew from Hawaii to San
Francisco. At that time, a lot of the fellows
were getting out, and it would take two or
three months to get back to the United
States. I was fortunate enough to get a flight
to San Francisco and then I was there about
two or three days and was able to catch a
train back to Chicago. I was a few weeks at
Great Lakes.
NELSON: Tell us about your military rank,
your decorations, and especially your campaign decorations.
GERAGHTY: Basically I was a Lieutenant
in the Navy. One of the incidents during the
War, I was stationed south of Miami. This is
when we were being trained as night flyers
and a hurricane came through. They warned
�us that our planes were to go to Guantanamo
Bay, Cuba. We were just about ready to land
there and they told us to come back and land
at Richmond, Florida, which was just south
of Miami, because the hangars could withstand a 155-mile-an-hour wind, which we
did. Along came the hurricane and that 165mile-an-hour wind, and we lost 150 military
planes, lost 3 dirigible hangars, 10 dirigibles, 150 civilian aircraft and all the fire
fighting equipment and everything!
GERAGHTY: I wasn’t really in campaigns.
I was on five different carriers. They kept
switching me around: Midway, Mission
Bay, Sitka Bay. I can’t remember. There
were five of them. Ford was on the Mission
Bay -- President Ford.
At that time I happened to have the only vehicle on the base; I was one of the first people to notice that the hangars were down. I
was at the BOQ. It turns out that I told my
skipper. Three of us left the BOQ and went
out to see the hangars. We could; the sky
was lighting up a little bit. The warning system was about two blocks away so we made
our way over there. The winds were about
165-mile-an-hour wind and so we crawled
on our belly over there.
NELSON: This is return to civilian life.
How did you get along with the men with
whom you had the greatest contact?
I found one truck that was not inside. I
brought quite a few of the injured back that
were in these hangars and it lasted probably
aboutwe were right in the calm, right in
the center of the hurricane, because there
was a dead calm to it for about an hour, and
then it started up again. For this adventure I
got a [inaudible] citation for a few things I’d
done. Other than that, the regular ribbons of
World War II.
NELSON: He was also a pilot or
GERAGHTY: No, but he was aboard the
ship.
GERAGHTY: How did I get along with
whom I had the greatest contact? During the
service, I didn’t have any problems at all.
NELSON: Were there any things you would
do differently if you could do them again?
GERAGHTY: I don’t believe so. I volunteered for flying and I was accepted and I
volunteered for night flying and was accepted and I did as much as I could. I went
where they told me to go.
NELSON: What was your most difficult
thing you had to do during your period of
military service?
GERAGHTY: Notifying friends when one
of my friends died. Something like that.
NELSON: Overseas?
GERAGHTY: Yeah.
NELSON: Is there any one thing that stands
out as your most successful achievement in
the military service?
NELSON: Air medal?
GERAGHTY: Yeah.
NELSON: How many campaigns were you
in?
GERAGHTY: Most successful achievement? I think one was the time of that hurricane I was able to help over 100 and some
people get back to sick bay.
NELSON: You saved a lot of lives.
�GERAGHTY: Their arms [were] cut off and
things like that. [Mine] was the only vehicle
on the whole base that was running, 12 or 14
hours.
NELSON: How did you learn about VE Day
and what was your reaction to it?
GERAGHTY: How did I learn of VE Day? I
was
NELSON: That was in April of ’45.
GERAGHTY: Yes. I heard that, of course,
on the radio as far as I know. Everybody
celebrated as I recall. There was a big party.
Everybody went out in the street and it
was… everybody was impressed that that
part of the War was over.
NELSON: How did you learn of VJ Day and
what was your reaction to it?
GERAGHTY: We were aboard a carrier at
the time in the Pacific, and about the same
thing. Everybody was excited and everybody was talking about they were glad it
was over with, and what it meant to them to
start thinking about going home.
NELSON: When and where were you officially discharged from the service?
GERAGHTY: I was discharged at Great
Lakes [Chicago] in July of 1946.
NELSON: Did you have a disability rating
or pension?
GERAGHTY: No.
NELSON: Do you have any feelings or
opinions about the Nation’s military status
or its policies?
GERAGHTY: Present day, the military today?
NELSON: Yeah.
GERAGHTY: I feel that we should have a
strong military, carry a big stick all the time,
so that we’re not in the position that we have
to defend ourselves.
NELSON: Do you have any contact with the
Veterans’ Administration?
GERAGHTY: No I don’t.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the use
of the atomic bomb when it was used against
Japanese civilians in August of 1945?
NELSON: Would you like to tell us how
your family supported you during your military life?
GERAGHTY: I was impressed that we had
such an arsenal that we could use. It probably saved an awful lot of lives -- American
lives and also probably Japanese lives.
GERAGHTY: There were three boys in our
family. All three of us joined the Naval Air
Corps. Of course, my mother and father
were for it but they were worried also. You
might say so we had 100% support from my
mother and my father, and anything we
wanted we could contact them, and if it was
in their power they gave [it to] us and supported us 100%.
NELSON: Has your opinion changed over
the last 50 years? If so, why?
GERAGHTY: No. That was the thing to do.
Harry Truman made a great decision.
NELSON: Over subsequent years what has
this support meant to you?
�GERAGHTY: The support that I felt? I had
a family that would accept me and I could
always rely on them to fully support [me].
NELSON: Now this is not an official question, but are there any other events that you
would like to relate at this time that stand
out in your mind as to what happened to you
in the service?
GERAGHTY: In service? Basically my total
service lasted approximately close to four
years. In that four year time I had a year and
a half of training and they kept me moving
probably about every ninety days to a different base.
Whatever they neededI was in a particular
Night Torpedo Squadron and there was
probably about 30 of us there in this particular squadron, and then they kept us together
in a Night Fighting Squadron, and then they
switched to Night Fighters.
They had us when we were in the States,
they had us put one quite a few air shows
during the time we were there because we
would Once, I remember our Squadron
was sent to Atlanta, Georgia, and we put on
an air show for the City. Three days! And
we flew tight formations.
In those days you could fly about as low as
you wanted to. The Georgia Tech game was
going and we flew inside the stadium and
out again to give them a little thrill!
But we put on the shows for Cuba, put on
shows for Miami, New York City, Chicago,
Milwaukee, Hawaii. We did put on quite a
few shows because our Squadron was together a lot.
Incidentally, I started flying the F4 and then
we got the F6. That was the plane I probably
flew the most. After the F6, that was right at
the tail end of the War they got the F8 out
and that still I guess is still the fastest prop
plane in the world today. After the War I
joined the Naval Reserve. I was with aircraft
for 10 years and in the Reserve I flew the
Phantoms, the Banshie and Jets and that was
my
NELSON: Were there any close calls that
you would like to relate?
GERAGHTY: A lot of close calls. One coming in Hawaii for a carrier landing my fuel
gage read 1/3 and I was going to make about
one pass (we were shooting landings at the
time). We were going to make the last pass,
then I was going to change tanks.
Just as I was coming in, just about 1000 feet
away from landing, my gas run out in that
one tank. I was about 200 feet high with
everything down, the flaps and wheels. As
soon as I stopped the [inaudible] we went
right down towards the water and I pulled
back and landed in the water. In the meantime I switched tanks. It had emergency fuel
pumps on and it caught but my tail was
dragging in the water. We finally got out
and I got up about 4 or 500 feet and it quit
again! I went back down and it was the same
thing. After it quit again, I went up to about
5,000 feet, stayed up there a little while until
I settled down, came back. Then they had to
scrap the plane because salt water had gotten
into the tail section and also the controls.
That was one little incident.
NELSON: Any others?
GERAGHTY: There were quite a few incidents just in flying. At night you had the
lights but they were very dim lights. You
had bright lights and also very dim military
flying. When you are making passes at night
and you come back up again, your leader, of
course, goes first and I guess I was second
�or third. And when you’re separated two or
three blocks then you can’t see these little
lights. One time I went sailing by and I never saw them. I thought it was a star but I saw
it move just a little bit and we were on a collision course and I just saw a little movement and I pushed down real fast we went
by them just by a few feet! There are a lot of
things like that when you are flying, story
after story after story.
it was four days that we searched trying to
locate nine torpedo bombers and I think
there were 27 fellows that just disappeared.
NELSON: Well, Joe that is very interesting.
I think this was a very good interview and if
that is all there is to talk about right now, I
think we should quit.
NELSON: End of interview.
We never found them. We never saw anything, any traces of oil slicks or anything
like that. We have no idea what happened to
that group. That’s another one. There’s a
bunch of them that I can think of that happened.
EDITOR’S NOTE:
Geraghty retired from Naval Air Reserves in
1958 with the rank of Lieutenant.
GERAGHTY: Okay.
NELSON: Here is another little incident that
Joe would like to relate to us.
GERAGHTY: When I was flying with the
Night Fighters off of the Bermuda Triangle I
was flying at night and it was just a pitch
black night, but the stars were out and you
catch the horizon off the ocean somewhat.
Probably I was flying for about an hour and
then I checked my instruments and I looked
out and looked up and I saw the stars. Then I
looked down and I saw stars. I thought I got
vertigo or something and I am probably upside down but I didn’t change anything but
when I looked out every direction I looked I
saw stars. To this day I can’t figure what
caused that one. It was a pitch-black night
but there were stars out. I have never seen
stars reflect over the ocean. I can’t believe
the ocean could be that calm.
NELSON: Do you think there is something
strange at the Bermuda Triangle?
GERAGHTY: That’s what I ran into. I guess
you’d call it strange. I also spent two days
looking for the nine torpedo bombers that
went down in that Bermuda Triangle. I think
His obituary says, “One of his accomplishments during his 10 years in the Reserves at
Glenville, IL, was to be the first person to
fly a jet out of the station. Joe had a passion
for aviation. In addition to flying in the Navy, he owned his own planes, and dealt with
the military bringing in aircraft to the Midwest Airfest.”
Source: Legacy.com archived obituary from
the Rockford Register Star, published November 26-27, 2014.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
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Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Joe Geraghty
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Joe Geraghty
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
16-Mar-94
Description
An account of the resource
Born February 27, 1920, Joe Geraghty served in the Naval Air Corps during World War II. He died November 22, 2014.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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PDF Text
Text
Joe H. Crawford
Transcribed by Elaine Carlson
Midway Village & Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
�Joe H. Crawford
NELSON: Hello. Today is January 19,
1994. My name is Charles Nelson. I am a
volunteer with the Midway Village &
Museum Center, which is cooperating with
the State’s efforts to collect oral histories
from Illinois citizens who participated in the
momentous events surrounding World War
II. We are in the office of the Midway
Village & Museum Center interviewing Joe
H. Crawford who lives at 4245 Oaklane
Road, Rockford, Illinois, 61109. Mr.
Crawford served in the branch of the United
States Armed Forces during WW II. We are
interviewing him about his experiences in
that war. Joe, would you please start by
introducing yourself to us?
CRAWFORD: My name is Joe Crawford
and I live at 4245 Oaklane Road south of
Rockford on the Kishwaukee River. I have
been here for a little over 20 years in
Rockford. I was here earlier. I have worked
for several companies in town.
NELSON: Okay. Would you give me your
place and date of birth?
CRAWFORD: I was born in Kansas City,
Missouri, on November 13, 1921.
NELSON: We would also like the names of
each of your parents.
CRAWFORD: My Father’s name was
Chester A. Crawford and my mother’s name
was Mildred C. Crawford.
NELSON: Did you have any brothers or
sisters?
CRAWFORD: I had one sister, Rachel
Crawford.
NELSON: Are there any details about your
parents and/or your family that you would
like to give?
CRAWFORD: Well, if you are taking
histories of wars, my father was in World
War; my grandfather was in the Civil War;
my great grandfather was in the
Revolutionary War. We’ve hit them all it
seems, down the line.
NELSON: Wonderful. What was life like
for you before the war, specifically during
1941?
CRAWFORD: I was in California. I was
working for Douglas Aircraft Company. I
was young and single and went out to the
West Coast to have a good time in
California. You know how that is. When the
warI was there when Pearl Harbor
happened and so I came back to enlist in
Kansas City.
NELSON: What thoughts did you have
about the war before United States became
directly involved in the conflict?
CRAWFORD: I figured it was inevitable
that we would be involved because I was in
high school. That was one reason I took
ROTC in high school because it looked like
we would be involved sooner or later. I’m
glad I did that preparation.
NELSON: How did you hear of the
December 7, 1941, bombing of Pearl Harbor
by the Japanese? If so, where were you and
what were you doing at the time? What was
your reaction and response of those around
you?
CRAWFORD: I was working 2nd shift at
the Douglas Aircraft Company and the
National Guard was conducting a mock raid
on the aircraft plant at the Santa Monica
plant and I was standing at Wilshire
Boulevard thumbing a ride into town to see
a friend of mine. I lived in west Los Angeles
and a fellow picked me up in a ’36 Ford. He
said, “What do you think of the war?” and I
said, “Who won?” because I thought he was
talking about the raid by the Air Force
�against the National Guard at the Santa
Monica plant. And I said, “Who won?” He
said, “Well, you better listen” and he turned
on the radio and I heard Roosevelt
announcing it again about the December 7th
raid on Pearl Harbor.
NELSON: Had you formed any prior
opinion or developed any feeling about what
was taking place in Europe or Asia?
CRAWFORD: Well, as I said earlier my
opinion was that we would be involved in
the war, hence the term world war, because
we can’t stay out anymore it seems.
had to sign for me. My Dad had a fit when
he found out later what branch I had
selected.
NELSON: What branch was he in?
CRAWFORD: My Dad was with the
engineers over in France in World War I.
NELSON: When and where were you
inducted?
CRAWFORD: In Kansas City.
NELSON: Do you have any special
memories of this event?
NELSON: Did you recall reading
newspaper accounts of German Aggression
in Europe?
CRAWFORD: No. I just was there in the
office and we took the oath.
CRAWFORD: Oh, yes, yes.
NELSON: You said you were 17 years old?
NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of
Hitler’s speeches, ideas or actions?
CRAWFORD: No, in 1941, I was 19.
CRAWFORD: Oh yes, yes.
NELSON: What events led you to enter into
the military services? Were you already in
service, drafted, or did you volunteer?
CRAWFORD: No. I volunteered. I went
back home to Kansas City from California
to enlist. In fact I went out to CaliforniaI
went out to March Field first and took my
physical for the Air Force and I passed
everything and so I said, “I’ll go back home
and enlist.” And there I didn’t pass the
__?__ color confusion test. The little dots,
the little brown reddish dots and so I went in
the Infantry, which I know more about.
NELSON: Was your response to entering
military service influenced by family, your
friends’ attitudes toward the war, the threat
to national security or any other
considerations?
CRAWFORD: The threat to national
security, I guess. My parents had to sign for
me because I was young at the time. They
NELSON: Nineteen years old. Yeah.
CRAWFORD: You had to be signed for at
the time. Later they moved the age down.
NELSON: What happened after you were
inducted? Where were you sent?
CRAWFORD: I went to Jefferson Barracks
in St. Louis for some processing. Then I
went down to Camp __?__ in Texas when I
had my training. What we call the Infantry
Basic Training.
NELSON: That was your basic military
training?
CRAWFORD: Yeah.
NELSON: What were you trained to do?
CRAWFORD: Well, it sounds kind of
smart, but we were trained to kill people, but
that’s what that branch of the service did. I
was trained in the weapons. I was in heavy
�weapons training company at Camp __?__.
(Some interference here).
NELSON: What did you think of the
training? (More interference).
CRAWFORD: The training then? It was
reasonable. But one problem was it was very
early in the war. The equipment that we had
wasn’t bad and we had enough rounds of
ammunition for a good practice on the
range. I would say it was reasonable,
everything considered. It wasn’t as bad as it
was the year before, of course when you had
the National Guard running around with
sticks over their shoulders in place of guns.
NELSON: Did anything special happen
there?
CRAWFORD: No, except I got a little bit
sick from all the shots but nothing exciting.
NELSON: Tell us about your other training
camps you attended.
place very long and when we got over to
Oahu we were really out in the field and we
spent all our time doing fortification and
stuff you see. We were expecting an
invasion at any time from the Nipsthe
Japanese.
NELSON: What was your military unit?
CRAWFORD: When we left the states and
went to Oahu, they put us in a big compound
there by the theater and the said “You, you
and you go to E Company and you, you, you
and you got to F Company. I was assigned
to G Company, 21st Infantry, part of the 24th
Division, which was formed out of the Old
Hawaiian Division.
NELSON: What were your assigned duties?
CRAWFORD: I was a rifleman. Did more
digging than rifling because as I said we
were so busy putting up the barbed wire,
digging emplacements, putting up big
bunkers. Labor battalion was really what it
really was.
CRAWFORD: That was all, there. We left
from there and went out to San Francisco,
Angel Island and took off from there to go
over to Oahu.
NELSON: This next part is about your
active participation in the conflict. Where
did you go after completing your basic
military training?
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or
passes?
CRAWFORD: Yeah, well I just mentioned
thatgoing over to Oahu right after Pearl
Harbor. Well, we got there in May, late
May, early June of ’42. We were the first
bunch of replacements to come in there. We
came into Pearl Harbor like being across
from the USS Republic, a big transport, and
we could see the mess and the damage at
Pearl Harbor as we went up. They put us all
in little sugar cane cars on a little engine and
we went chugging up the side of the hill to
go out to Schofield Barracks which sits in
the center of the island on the planes __?__
up there. And we went up in that.
CRAWFORD: No.
NELSON: If so, how did you use them?
CRAWFORD: No. Sorry, I did have an
overnight pass and we went up to Fort
Worth and came back. That was it in the
States.
NELSON: What do you recall about the
places you were stationed, the friends you
made, your association with civilians?
CRAWFORD: I guess one of our problems
was we had very little association with
civilians because we weren’t in any one
NELSON: What was the date? Do you
remember the date?
�CRAWFORD: Not the exact date. As I say
it was ’42, late May or early June of ’42.
hit, but fortunately no one was killed. But
my unit wasn’t really involved.
NELSON: What did you think of the
nation’s war efforts up to that point?
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change
as combat continued.
CRAWFORD: Well, later on when I did
get into combat, I don’t know how to answer
that question for sure because it was later on
when I got into combat.
CRAWFORD: Well, everybody was kind
of staggered. I know that the aircraft people
responded very rapidly. There were a bunch
of planes setting outside of the hanger at
Douglas Aircraft where I worked with OD
paint on them scheduled for England. The
820s – 820 bombers. I worked 2nd shift and
so I didn’t go back to work until Monday
afternoon, after the Sunday attack. When I
got in there they had already changed the
Bulls eye, the British marking, to the star of
the United States plus they had a bunch of
transport DC-3s scheduled for the
Netherlands East Indies and again those had
been painted then. They were shiny; they
were painted OD and they had a star and
then sent them over to Oahu right away to
bring back wounded. So they moved them as
far as I could see.
NELSON: Would you consider
entering the first combat zone?
this
CRAWFORD: Oh yeah. I’m sure. We were
sweating out the Battle of Midway, which
came a little bit later, and fortunately they
didn’t make it to Oahu, but they had an
invasion force schedule for Oahu. And they
could have taken it if they had landed the
troops right away because we had nothing
there.
NELSON: I believe that. Taking this one at
a time, please tell us in full detail if possible,
the approximate number of types of
casualties, how they occurred and how they
were treated.
CRAWFORD: Well, as I say, on Oahu, I
got there late after the Pearl Harbor attack
and we lost some fellows in the outfit I
joined. They were hit by strafing. Wheeler
Field sits right next to special barracks and
they were strafing Wheeler Field and the
barracks, too. And we had couple guys get
NELSON:
combat?
You
didn’t
consider
this
CRAWFORD: No.
NELSON: Well, okay, let’s say later on
when you were in the Philippines.
(Disconnected conversation). Okay. What
did you think of the war so far? Did you
write any letters home?
CRAWFORD: Oh yeah. I was writing
letters home but I also I got my commission
in Australia and I had to censor mail down
there so then I was careful about “leaky”
letters. There were a few events that
happened in the Pacific down there where
some how or other they got information that
we were going to land on a certain island
and it was hurtful. We had some bad
casualties. Most of the fellows in our outfit
they were very good about it. They didn’t
write anything home or tell anything. So
actually our letters home were rather
nondescript. It was kind of “We were taking
more training, etc., etc.
NELSON: Did you receive any packets
from home?
CRAWFORD: Oh, yeah. I got a packet
from Australia. I met a fellow there and his
family was very nice to me.
NELSON: What type of things did you
receive?
CRAWFORD: I got a fruitcake one time.
Some of the fellows got Listerine bottles
that had liquor in them instead of Listerine.
�The packets we liked and I got a couple,
were things like A-1 Sauce and hot sauce
and sauce and spices so we could zap u that
food which was a GI __?__.
we had a few cases where we lost them, too.
They’d surrender and somebody shot them
on the way back, which we didn’t like. But
it happened.
NELSON: Did most of the fellows write or
receive letters?
NELSON: Now these questions probably
are more for people in Europe, but I will
read them anyway. Prior to the end of the
war were you aware of any civilian
concentration camps existed. If so, please
explain how you learned about them and
how much you knew at the time.
CRAWFORD: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of
friendship with many or some of the combat
companions?
CRAWFORD: Well, when I really got in
combat I had my commission then and my
job then was to see that the men did the job.
I know it sounds rather crass but you
avoided very close bonds particularly with
the enlisted men, although I liked to. And I
know a lot of them and since then I have
formed some close bonds. We had a reunion
here in the city just this year, or just last
year, 1993. With some of the enlisted men
who were under me during the war, but if
you formed too close a bond and then he
was killed a gone it was tough. You just
couldn’t do too much of it.
NELSON: Did you ever have to help
retrieve a wounded body from the field of
combat?
CRAWFORD: Oh, yeah, several times.
NELSON: During your combat duty, did
you ever capture any enemy prisoners? If so,
please describe the circumstances.
CRAWFORD: Oh, we had a couple cases
where they came out of caves and we would
take them back to S-2 And I interrogated
some of them later when I was an
Intelligence Officer when I was in S-2. I
took a course in "“pigeon Japanese" and I
could interrogate them with basic questions
as to who their __?__ for example. Who
were their officers? We had a lot of data on
officers. Nip officers could keep track of
them there. Yeah, we had a few cases. And
CRAWFORD: Yeah, we liberatedI guess
they weren’t really in a camp, but they were
literally under guard on Palawan in the city
of Puerto Princesa, which is aPalawan is a
far western island in the Philippines and
there was a camp. Some of the guys learned
about a camp, and it was a concentration
camp for civilians up on a little island north
of Palawan. They went up there.
NELSON: Run by the Japanese.
CRAWFORD: Yeah, yeah.
NELSON: What was your highlight
occurrence of your combat experience?
CRAWFORD: I don’t know the high light
of combat, I guess, is the day you were hit
you got a couple of purple hearts. The whole
combat experience, I guessthe times you
really felt the best I guess was when we
liberate some civilians or we wouldYou
see the Japanese had civilian laborers on a
lot of the airstrips around there. They
brought them in from Java, Sumatra, and
Borneo. They brought them in from all over
and they were just laborers, and boy they
were like slave laborers. They weren’t
getting fed very well and to liberate them
you see in that sense was just very, very
rewarding. Very good.
NELSON: You said you were hit a couple
times
CRAWFORD: Oh, yeah.
�NELSON: How did that occur?
CRAWFORD: Well, the rounds came a
little too close to me. That’s all. I got some
shrapnel in my butt. Fortunately, it was just
minor things.
NELSON: Was this from aircraft?
CRAWFORD: No, it was from small arms
and also from rifle grenades. Explosive
devices of theirs. Mortar rounds. I’m not
sure at that time.
NELSON: Tell us what you and other men
did to celebrate America’s traditional family
holidays, such as Thanksgiving and
Christmas.
CRAWFORD: It depended on where you
were. When I was on Oahu we got some bad
turkey and we all celebrated Thanksgiving
there by spending our time in the latrine. It
was really bad. Christmas came and went.
The holidays usually just came and went.
We hardly ever had time off just to
celebrate. We did have a chapel on Biak. We
had a chapel there and if we weren’t
working, you know, out in the fields
shooting each other, we would have services
in the chapel there at Christmas or whatever.
NELSON: When and how did you return to
the United States after the end of the war?
CRAWFORD: Well, I returnedI went
from the United States to Oahu on the USS
Republic. I was down about the “Z” deck,
way down at the bottom of the ship and I
could just see big bull’s eye painted on the
outside of that damned ship. And I swore to
myself, “By God, I’m going to come back a
little bit better off than I went over.” So
guess where I was put. I cam back from
Nagoya, Japan way down about “Z” deck
again even though I had my commission.
But, I left from Nagoya and came back
about the same way as I went over, but it
was damn good of course, to be coming
back
NELSON: What happened when you
arrived in the United States?
CRAWFORD: Well, we landed in
Portland. Actually Vancouver barracks,
that’s across the river from Portland. I got a
lot of back pay as I hadn’t been paid for
some time, so we went out on the town. We
had to have a beer for Sam and a beer for
Fred and a beer for George. All the guys
said have a beer for me when I left Japan, so
I had lots of beer. Meanwhile, I was
chomping at the bit to get on a train to go
back to Kansas City. I was separated at Fort
Leavenworth and we were waiting for a
train. They just didn’t have enough trains
running at the time.
NELSON: Please tell us about your military
rank and your decorations, especially your
campaign decorations.
CRAWFORD: As I said, I was a corporal
on Oahu then after I had been there a little
while. Then we went on down to Australia
in late ’42. I was just trying to remember. It
was getting toward springtime of ’43
because when we hit Australia it was down
under, it was wintertime down there. It was
fall. It was colder than hell and all we had
were tropical things. Anyway, I was a
corporal. I went to OCS, Officers’ Candidate
School in Brisbane and got my commission.
I was a nice fresh 2nd Lieutenant and then
later on I went to 1st Lieutenant. If I had
stayed in a while I would have probably
been a captain. I was executive officer of the
company when I left. That would have been
a lot of fun, too. I was executive officer of
our company and the captain of our
company was the supply officer and he
didn’t know anything about running a line
company. It would have been fun too. We
were scheduled toWe were all set up to
land in Japan. We had our maps out and we
had our boats at Zamboanga in the
Philippines and we were getting ready to
load the boats. We loaded the boats on
paper. You make a big lay out on the table
and you load in all the trucks and guns and
�whatever. We had our boats loaded on paper
and the LSTs had come in Zamboanga to
start to load up for the invasion of Japan.
Anyway, I ended up a 1st Lieutenant.
NELSON: What about you decorations?
You got 2 Purple Hearts.
CRAWFORD: Yeah, I got 2 Purple Hearts
and an air medal.
NELSON: That’s unusual
infantryman to get an air medal.
for
an
CRAWFORD: Yeah. I’ll tell you how
really started was, I got a call from division
headquarters and they said, “Hey Crawford,
how many times you been up?” I said, “I
don’t know. I really hadn’t kept track.
Didn’t keep a log or anything.” They said, “
You been up about 12 times?” and I said,
“Oh, I guess so”. They said, “Can you turn
in some dates and times”. I said, “Well, I
can approximate”. The reason was, the Air
Force General was giving out bronze stars to
the Air Force people and it wasn’t supposed
to be that way. It was only supposed to be
for
ground
troops.
Our
Division
Commander, he said, “Well, I’m going to
give out air medals, so, myself, Charles
Foltz, who was our regimental S-2 and
couple others of us, got air medals. We had
a big decoration ceremony up in Nagoya. No
it was at [Hitachi] Barracks which was just
outside of Hiroshima.
NELSON: Then you also got a Bronze Star.
CRAWFORD: Yeah, got a Bronze Star, but
the one that was best is the combat infantry
badge. That’s the big long blue one with the
musket. That was our best one, plus
campaign ribbons.
NELSON: Do you remember how many
campaigns you were in?
CRAWFORD: Well, yeah. Let’s see. We
had New Guinea at [Hollandia?] then we
had the Philippines of course. The
Philippines was quite a prolonged one,
because you see, we would go from island to
island to island. In our theater we would
count each little island as a separate
campaign really so it’s kind of hard. We had
the general Philippine ribbon, then, of
course, we had the Pacific ribbon. Then we
had arrowhead decorations on your
campaign ribbons for each landing you
make. We probably made 10 to 20 landings
at least in our outfit alone. Some were hot
and some weren’t. Some we got shot at and
some we didn’t. So the Pacific campaign
was kind of tough in that respect. They just
talk about the Pacific campaign and hell in
the mean while a guy might have been on a
dozen islands down there. Each one could be
a real hot, sometimes short and sometimes
long campaign. We got down to Mindanao
and that thing went on for quite a while
down there. It’s a big island, a lot of area.
NELSON: How did you get along with the
men with whom you had the greatest
contact?
CRAWFORD: Well, that was my outfit. I
think we did pretty well because, in my 4
years of service, I had 2 years enlisted and 2
years commission time. So when I had my
commission in talking to an enlisted man, I
knew what he was thinking. I knew what the
guys were thinking because I had 2 years of
it myself. I think we got along real well. The
fellows
themselves,
theythis
was
something that I never mentioned. Just come
to think of it. I hadn’t thought about it for
years. They turned me in for an award. The
men in my platoonI was very touched
about that. In fact, it bothers me now to
think about it. (Sounded teary). Sorry.
NELSON: Were there things you would do
differently if you could do them once again?
CRAWFORD: Well, it’s a basic arm of the
services. All the other services really are
dedicated to supporting the Infantry, you
see--Artillery, quartermaster, ordinance, all
those people. It’s the best part of the service.
�NELSON: What was the most difficult
thing you had to do during your period of
military service?
CRAWFORD: To write letters home to the
fellows that had been killedwriting letters
to their parents. That was bad.
NELSON: Is there any one thing that stands
our as your most successful achievement in
the military service?
CRAWFORD: One of the times I got hit.
We closed up a gap on a ridge, you see,
which moved the whole campaign forward
and enabled the Air Force to move in and
use the air strip which was below the hill
there and that sort of thing. We felt it was
very critical to the campaign. So that was
alwaysI
gave
us
a
sense
of
accomplishment to have done that in a
particular campaign.
NELSON: How did you learn about VE
Day and what was your reaction to it?
CRAWFORD: Well, we were right in the
middle of a campaign on Biak and we didn’t
have much time to do anything about it. We
just said, “Boy, that’s great.” We kept right
on. We were busy.
don’t everAt the time there were no more
issues involved as I said, well, I haven’t said
yet, but when we got into Japan, I was in
charge of Hiroshima getting rid of the
weapons, ordnance and ammunition in that
area. I talked to many civilians there. I had a
Japanese girl there with me as a translator
and she told that to them at the time it was
merely bigger weapon that they had and that
was in the rules.
NELSON: And you haven’t changed your
mind in the last 50 years?
CRAWFORD: Absolutely not. No, I
haven’t. Some of our men are
claimingsome of our mensome of the
fellows in our outfit are claiming radiation
problems from being in the area. I went in
with the Navy crew and they had what they
called “cutripies” at the time, which is a
radio-active sniffer. And, of course, the
radiation levels then, they said were okay,
but we know more about radiation levels
now than we did then. And the town was
fairly hot.
NELSON: What city was this, Hiroshima?
CRAWFORD: Yeah, Hiroshima.
NELSON: How did you learn about VJ Day
and what was your reaction to it?
NELSON: When and where were you
officially discharged from service?
CRAWFORD: Well, on VJ Day we had so
damn much shooting going on from the
other troops. There was another aircraft unit
down the road a ways and they were
shooting off rounds and stuff and we heard
on the radio and we had to damn near get in
our bunkers because of the stray rounds
coming down from all these other clowns
shooting so much ammunition.
CRAWFORD: At Fort Leavenworth in
Kansas.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the
use of the atomic bomb when it was first
used against the Japanese civilians in August
of 1945?
NELSON: Do you have any disability
rating or pension?
CRAWFORD: Absolutely correct. If it
hadn’t been for that, I wouldn’t be here. So
NELSON: When, what year? ’45?
CRAWFORD: Yeah, ’45. You see I had 90
days leave coming that I never had.
Terminal leave. I had that coming, but my
official discharge date was in February.
CRAWFORD: No.
�NELSON: Do you have any opinions or
feeling about our nation’s military status or
its policies?
CRAWFORD: Well, I think we should try
to maintain our troops and services that we
have now and keep them in as good a shape
as possible. One of the biggest things, one of
the troubles is, when we finish up a war,
Congress is cutting back on things so darn
much that, then you got to go through a big
scramble again to try to get things back up
to par. Fortunately, with Korea we still had a
lot of stuff around a lot of equipment I came
close to being called back for Korea. I was
in school and my military occupation
specialty at the time was a small unit
commander and they were yanking them,
those guys, off campus. I was going to
school in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I would see
some guy disappear and I would say,
“Where’s Fred”? “Oh he got called back in”.
I was in the reserves. I joined the reserves in
Ann Arbor to make a little money, while I
was in school. I was on the GI Bill, I didn’t
have a lot of money, so fortunately that’s
what saved me. They said they would take
the whole unit if we got call back.
NELSON: Do you have any contact with
the Veterans’ Administration?
CRAWFORD: No, other than my
insurance. I have been carrying insurance
for years.
NELSON: What is your opinion of the
Veterans’ Administration if you have any
contact with it? Well, you don’t have any
contact
CRAWFORD: No, I have no contact.
NELSON: Would you like to tell us about
your family support, how your family
supported you during your military life?
CRAWFORD: Oh, yeah, I was very
fortunate. I got good support from my
family and they wrote me regularly, my
mother and dad and my sister, of course, that
was my main family and my other relatives.
I was engaged when I went into service. I
wasn’t going to get married because I was
afraid the branch of service was in I might
leave a widow so we didn’t get married but
we were engaged. Well, after I had been
overseas about a year and a half I got a letter
from my mother saying, “Joe, I’m sorry to
tell you but Mary’s engaged to Earl, another
chap, you see, so I lost that engagement.
NELSON: Dear John.
CRAWFORD: Dear John but didn’t even
get a Dear John letter. So many fellows did
in my outfit but I didn’t get any and my
mother had to tell me and so my present
wife, I dated her a little bit and I just wrote
her a letter when I was in Australia. Well,
I’ll just write you a letter and see what’s
going on. Well, boy, we just kept writing
and writing and she got together with my
folks and she and my folks had it all set up
really.
This taped interview stopped abruptly at this
point.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Joe H. Crawford
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Joe H. Crawford
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
January 19, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born November 13, 1921 Joseph H. Crawford was drafted into the U.S. Army in 1941. He was discharged in 1945. He died February 7, 2005.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
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PDF Text
Text
John B. Whitehead
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
For Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois
Phone 815.397.9112
�John B. Whitehead
Today is December 21st, 1993. My name is
Gerhardt Seegers. I am a volunteer at Midway Village and Museum Center. We are in
the office of John B. Whitehead who lives at
2417 Barrington Place, Rockford, Illinois.
Mr. Whitehead served in a branch of the
United States Army during World War II.
We are interviewing him about his experiences in that war. First of all, John, I thought
you would like to introduce yourself for us.
What is your full name?
WHITEHEAD: My name is John Whitehead. We are sitting in my office at 5100
East State Street, on the first day of winter,
1993, Gary Seeger and I.
SEEGER: Were you born in Rockford,
John?
WHITEHEAD: I was. I was born in the old
downtown Rockford Memorial Hospital on
Elm Street.
SEEGER: What is your date of birth?
WHITEHEAD: September 10 of 1923.
SEEGER: Would you also give us the name
of your parents?
WHITEHEAD: My father was Loren L.
Whitehead. My mother was Harriet Burpee
Whitehead.
SEEGER: Do you have brothers and sisters?
WHITEHEAD: I have two sisters. My sister Ruth, who is three years younger, who is
married to Dan Nicholas; a sister Jean who
is three years younger then she, I guess was
married to Page Reese.
SEEGER: Going back to your time in the
military, what was life like for you prior to
the war? What were you doing prior to your
service?
WHITEHEAD: Well, I graduated from
Rockford West High School, the first graduating class in 1941, spring of ’41. I was the
class valedictorian. We had the big graduation at the Coronado Theater. I got a scholarship and went on to Northwestern University. That being the fall of ’41 and war was
all the way around us but not upon us. I
joined the Navel ROTC. So I had 2 years of
normal college life. Then the Navy took
over the campus as a training center and we
lived our life as trainees in what was formerly our fraternity houses, but now we stood
watch and marched and exercised and all
these things that went on from ’43 to early
’44, when they suddenly decided they were
running short of Naval officers so they
dragged us out slightly ahead of time and I
went on to serve there.
SEEGER: Were you inducted then? In
WHITEHEAD: I was commissioned as an
Ensign in February of ’44 having been indoctrinated as a seaman, I guess you would
say in the summer of ’43.
SEEGER: What did you do after your
commission? What was
WHITEHEAD: Well I was shipped to the
Philadelphia Navy Yard and outfitted with
woolen shirts and so forth, that being February. We were sent down to Cape May, New
Jersey, where there were a number of fledgling officers like myself, and we served on
various small craft that did patrol duty off
the mouth of the Delaware River. Some
minesweepers swept that area because the
�German subs, early in the war, had been active in that section. So I was at Cape May
for about four months. Then I was shipped
down to Miami, to the Small Craft Training
Center where we were trained in underwater
sound detection at that time. Then I was sent
to the Naval gun factory at Washington, D.
C., [Washington Navy Yard] for about three
or four weeks, or a little longer. We were
finally assigned to the PGM-32 which is a
patrol craft which was being built in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, as many of the smaller ships were at that time, [at] the Smith
shipyard there [Leathem D. Smith Shipbuilding Company].
That ship came down through Lake Michigan, through Chicago and the Illinois River
and down the Mississippi and down to New
Orleans, where I met it and we outfitted it,
took it on a shake-down and so forth. From
there, we went through the Panama Canal;
up to San Diego; up to Pearl Harbor and
down to the Southwest Pacific and down to
__?__ where the war had just finished. Up to
__?__ for a couple of weeks and then they
sent us to Okinawa at the end of the Okinawa invasion.
Later we went on into Japan after that. We
were on a ship that was built because the
famous wooden PT boat that President Kennedy and others were on, which were very
zippy Chris-Craft type ships, were attempting to clean out the Japanese barges that
were in the Philippines. This was beforeI
don’t knowit was right about the time
when MacArthur returned to the Philippines.
These PT boats were faced with rather slow
moving Japanese craft that they put heavier
guns on and they were blowing these wooden boats out of the water.
So they built our ship, a sturdier vessel with
a half-inch of armor plate, a three-inch gun
and a lot of machine guns and so forth. We
were to go down there and clean out the
Japanese barges, but by the time we got
there, why the war had been won in that area
and the barges had been sunk by some other
means--aircraft I suppose. So then we were
assigned to work with a mine-sweeping fleet
which were extensive out in that area;
around north of Okinawa, because the Japanese had heavily mined the homeland waters. And so forth.
At that time we were about ready to finish
off the Japs in Okinawa and they were going
to invade the Japanese homeland. So we
would follow along behind the 30 or 40
minesweepers. They would have cables drift
out behind the ship; that had underwater
veins that would hold these cutters down
under the water and they would steam back
and forth, then the cables would pick up the
mines that were moored by cables themselves. They would slip back along the cable
to the cutter at the end of the line, which
would then cut the cable on the mine. And
the mine would pop to the surface, and
somebody would have to go in and detonate
them and that was primarily what we were
doing.
So we were slowly steaming back and forth
in the China Sea, getting ready to go into
Japan, when the first atomic bomb was
dropped. And of course this [mission] came
to a basic conclusion at that point in time. So
our ship was then ordered back to Okinawa
where we took on fresh supplies and then
steamed up to the [unintelligible] I think
they called it, which was the bay outside of
Tokyo Bay. By that time the second bomb
had been dropped. The Emperor decided
that they were going to surrender. The point
was that they couldn’t send these large task
force vessels, the aircraft carriers, and the
battleships and so forth into Tokyo Bay
without being sure that they weren’t going
to run into mine fields. So our group went in
�ahead of that in ahead of that and swept Tokyo Bay and made it safe for the hospital
ships to come in and that sort of thing.
SEEGER: Were you there when they surrender was signed?
WHITEHEAD: Well, the surrender was
signed a few days after the main occupation
of that area. By that time, why, they had already-made plans for us to go to some of the
other coastal cities of Japan and sweep the
mines out of their harbors. On the day before the surrender on the Missouri although
we were as close as a thousand yards form
the Missouri. We were ordered to steam out
of the harbor and leave. We were close to
signing the [unintelligible]. It was an interesting High School reunion I had last year
because a friend of mine who I hadn’t seen
in 50 years, was in the Navy and was saying
that he was on the first ship in Tokyo Bay. I
said, “What do you mean, the first ship. You
couldn’t have been, because I was there!”
He was on a destroyer that was in Task
Force 38 and they were outside the in main
harbor outside of Tokyo Bay, but they were
unable to go in until we [our gunship] had
gone in with these minesweepers. So this
chap, when he got back to California, wrote
the Navy Department and sent for all of the
ship’s records of his ship and my ship--the
minesweepers that I was working with. So
he says that he had to admit he was not the
first ship in, but he probably was the first
destroyer.
SEEGER: Do you have any contact with
any of your shipmates?
WHITEHEAD: No, surprisingly, but it’s
like being an immigrant from the old country or something. You kind of cut the ties
and everybody had pleasant friendships but
bad memories of the war. We have never
been close, never had a reunion or anything
of this sort although we have a mixture. We
had about a half a dozen officers and
aboutI think we had 65 other enlisted men
on board that came from all over the country.
SEEGER: And you had how many men total were on board?
WHITEHEAD: Well, there was about 70
of us altogether. I started out as the lowliest
Ensign and worked up so that when the war
was over why then, of course, the senior
people who had been around longer like our
Captain. My original Captain had been in
the North African campaign on a destroyer
then shipped then over to the Pacific on our
ship. He had quite a bit of seniority and he
left almost as soon as the war was over.
In any event we swept the waters around
Sendai up on the northeast coast of Japan.
Then we went around to the southwest coast
around [unintelligible] where I had a reunion
with half-dozen friends from Rockford who
were also in the Navy. Then after that, we
went back down through the Marshall Islands and back to Pearl Harbor.
My wife, who I had met at Northwestern,
and I were engaged, of course, all during
this time. So I told her that it looked to me
like we were going to be coming back to the
States; we should plan to get married.
Somewhere in 1945 that would have been.
So she went ahead merrily with all sorts of
plans as you would for a wedding in July.
Before anything elselet’s seewe went
from Pearl Harbor back to San Francisco
and that’s where I guess I wired her and said
it looked like I had time off.
Lo and behold, they decided to hold the
atomic bomb tests at Bikini. So our ship was
a nice little taxi- (sort of) sized craft, so they
said that we should take on a whole new
�crew and go back to Pearl Harbor from San
Francisco and stand by to go to Bikini.
the Okinawa area; we saw a lot of banged up
stuff.
We had to cancel the wedding plans. This
must have been in January or February of
’45or ’46 because we were going to talk
about a wedding in the early spring of ’46. I
ended up sitting in Pearl Harbor waiting for
the armada to go to Bikini to form, and my
time ran out; my points, as they termed it at
that point, [and I the ship] over to my executive officer. We came back to the states in
June; we were married in July in New York.
SEEGER: Were you involved in any campaigns?
SEEGER: When did you separate from the
service?
WHITEHEAD: Well, it must have been
late June of ’46 and we were married in July.
SEEGER: What was your rank then?
WHITEHEAD: Well, I was a Lieutenant
Junior Grade, which was one above being an
Ensign.
SEEGER: Did you have leaves or passes
during the time you were in the service?
WHITEHEAD: Well, not when you left the
States, but prior to that time, I got home at
least once that I can recall.
Other than that we were pretty much confined to what was really quite a small ship
by Navy standards. Although, if you owned
it, you’d think it was a hell of a big yacht! It
was a sporty little craft that did about 25
knots. We were living in close confinement
with your fellow shipmates. It was interesting. We didn’t really have any narrow escapes. We were close to a lot of big ships
that had been damaged in the war. I think
that there were kamikaze pilots out there in
WHITEHEAD: Not in the term that you
would use it, like an invasion of this island
or another. By the time we were out there
by the time we arrived off the shore of
Okinawa onthe day when the rocket ships
were standing off the beach just raining
what looked like the 4th of July; raining
rockets in on the shore. There was still a lot
of fighting going on in there. A lot of guys
that got killed after that but, [in] those island
invasions, unless you were on the small craft
that really ran up on the beach and dropped
the front door and soldiers ran out of, why
we were not in a position to take part in that.
We weren’t as big as say a destroyer; that
could operate with the task forces that would
be protecting the larger ships and shooting at
aircraft. So we were kind of an in-between
Navy [vessel], I’d say.
SEEGER: Did youwere you strafed by
any planes at the time you were out there?
WHITEHEAD: No, we werewhat do I
want to say?A few cases at night when
we’d be steaming along without lights and
couldn’t see a darned thing, where planes
would zoom down right over the top of the
wheelhouse. We were never quite sure
whether they were Japs or friendlies, but we
were never in danger.
Our main danger was when we were destroying mines likethey could go off like a
ton of bricks throwing shrapnel into the air.
So everybody had to have flack jackets and
helmets on. I remember one morning, out
there when I had the watch when we destroyed 45 mines in a 4-hour period. Those
went off with a boom. You couldn’t get too
�close because they would set your gyrocompass off its track and destroy and hurt your
own ship. The percussionif you were too
close to a depth charge or something.
SEEGER: How would you destroy these
mines?
WHITEHEAD: Well, that was left to the
ingenuity of each ship, but in our case we
finally resorted to the skill of a lot of the
crew men that would come in and out of the
woods and the hills of Kentucky who were
sharpshooters. We set them up on top of the
wheelhouse with 30 caliber rifles and they
would wing away at them like he was shooting at the Hatfields and McCoys.
SEEGER: What would they have to hit a
certain areasstrike a certain area?
WHITEHEAD: Well, I guess so. I was
never quite sure of that. These things
[mines] hadthey were probably three feet
in diameter. They had horns. Now whether
we had to hit the horn or whether just the
concussion of a bullet would set it off, I
can’t remember. When you hit it off, you
knew it. Earlier, why we had tried to use 40
mm cannon and 20 mm machine guns, 50
caliber machine guns, all of which we had
on board. All that would dolike skipping a
stone. You had to get high enough to come
down on top of it.
SEEGER: Did you have any casualties on
your ship?
WHITEHEAD: No, I don’t think so, other
than total seasickness on the part of a few
people, we had no problems.
SEEGER: Were there storms? Did you
have some storms at sea?
WHITEHEAD: Yeah. We were a couple of
times out there in the Okinawa area where
they would send the small crafts such as
ourselves into any kind of protective inlets
that they could find. We were never capsized, or anything like that.
SEEGER: Then what did you do when you
were separated from the service? I know you
mentioned
WHITEHEAD: Well, I went back to
Northwestern and finished up my last year.
As I say we had been taken out of school a
year early and commissioned. So I went
back and finished up. My wife worked for
the Encyclopedia Britannica in the loop,
[she] supported us. With the help of the GI
Bill we got through. I came back to Rockford or we came back and I went into the
real estate business that fall and I have been
here ever since.
SEEGER: 1946?
WHITEHEAD: Well this was 1947.
SEEGER: I forgot the year of school there?
WHITEHEAD: Yeah. My naval career was
not heroic but it was very interesting. We
saw a lot of the world that we would not
have seen before and probably don’t care to
see again.
It was interesting to anchor in Tokyo Bay
the first night without lights and you’d look
ashore you’d see some of the activity vehicles and a few of the lights. When we
steamed into the bay you would see the
shore batteries that had a white flag tied
around them. You weren’t quite sure whether some renegade might decide that he was
going to take one last shot at you or not. But
going ashore, why the devastation was just
so enormous that Yokohama, which was just
�south and adjoined Tokyo, had just been
flattened by firebombs. People were living
in tin huts just among all this rubble and
they suffered enormously, so you can see the
atomic bomb was just the finishing touches.
SEEGER: Were there any American prisoners of war in Tokyo?
WHITEHEAD: Oh, yes. I’m sure they
were sprinkled all over Japan. We
hadthere was one three-story warehouse
that was on the waterfront there, somewhere
south of Tokyo. That had a great big handpainted sign on it that said, “We are Yank
prisoners. Come rescue us.”
What had happened was apparently when
the Emperor said, “Surrender,” they handed
the keys to the jail to the inmates and they
walked away. So ultimately, after we finished the minesweeping, the hospital ships
came in. They would dock right near this
place, and I presume that’s where the prisoners went.
SEEGER: So you never had any contact
with the Japanese?
WHITEHEAD: No, we went ashore a couple of times there early in the first three or
four days. The people were very deferential.
They wouldyou’d walk down the street
with a 45 holster on your side. The people
would bow and get out of the way. It was
just like the Emperor was walking down the
street.
In those days, why, they were wearing
wooden clogs for shoes and they were the
historic type of Asiatic shoes there, made
out of wood bottoms and so forth. I brought
home a pair that I took off of somebody’s
front porch over there thatnot sure it was
the best thing in the world to do but
SEEGER: Where were you at the time the
first atomic bomb was exploded?
WHITEHEAD: We were out [in the
ocean], south of Japan and north of Okinawa, east of China out in the China Sea, just
steaming back and forth, according to somebody’s plan, where the mines were or were
supposed to be. There was literally a plan
for the invasion of Japan at that point. Nobody looked forward to that, but they felt
that some of those islands would have been
difficult to take where the homeland would
have been the World Series of that type of
war.
SEEGER: What were your feelings when
you had heard that there was a destruction of
a town?
WHITEHEAD: Well we didn’t have any
concept of what it was. I mean, nobody in
the service knew anything the atomic bomb.
It was just the fact that the explosion larger
than anyone had seen before and dropped on
these towns and so after all the bombing that
had gone[on] over in England and Germany
and so forth, we figured it was something a
little bigger than thatthe conception of the
[unintelligible].
SEEGER: When did you find out just how
large this bomb was?
WHITEHEAD: I suppose that after a few
days, why then the armed forces radio or
somebody was talking about some of the
details to others as to what it was. I don’t
think they really knew what they had done
in terms of devastation. The damage to humanity over there was terrific. I don’t think
anybody in the service regretted it before or
after, to be honest with you, because I think
we’ve got a lot of guys around today who
wouldn’t be here if they had to walk over
the beaches of Japan to win that war.
�SEEGER: Did you have any contact with
the Veterans Administration following the
War? Did you have any occasion to use their
services?
WHITEHEAD: No, I waswhen you’re
discharged, I had to go to Great Lakes to be
discharged. You enroll at the college with
the GI Bill and other than that I have never
used their medical facilities. I paid the premiums on my life insurance for 40 some
years, now. Hope to collect on that someday.
In our case, I had taken an Atlas of the Pacific area and set it out into grid numbers, so
when I referred to grid 47 why they could
take out the Atlas and see where grid 47
was. At that point, I was sure the Emperor
didn’t have a similar book, so
SEEGER: What was the most difficult time
during your time in the service?
SEEGER: Did you receive mail on a regular basis?
WHITEHEAD: I think the transition from
being a couch potato to a new enlistee in the
active duty at Northwestern was probably as
tough as anything could be. I never wanted
to get up early in the morning. Certainly
while you’re living under military type conditions and they get you up at six o’clock
and run you for several miles, climb rocks
and so, they get you in pretty good shape.
WHITEHEAD: Yeah. They were very
good about that. I suspect that the frequency
that I received them was less than some of
the big ships. But we might go to two or
three weeks, let’s say on a rare occasion, and
not see any mail, but then there it would be.
I wrote my wife every day during the time I
was over there, and to my folks frequently,
and it turned out that both of them saved all
the letters.
Then we were commissioned and sent to
duty on board small ships where there
wasn’t any room to be active and so our
physical condition rose to a peak and then
deteriorated as the war went on. That was
the most memorable part of it. And interesting, because when you’re mixed in with a
bunch of men like that, you really don’t
know them as well as you should or their
background.
Now we have kind of a running history of
what was going on day by day. As you read
those, the fact that you had to be [unintelligible]. In the first place, the officers censored mail of all of the enlisted men, to
make sure you weren’t giving away any
State Secrets of War, which I think looking
back on it, it’s rather hilarious. Importance
of our activities probably was not paramount
to what happened in the war, but in writing
yourself, why then you had to be careful.
You couldn’t say, “Tomorrow we’re going
to be at Okinawa.”
I remember the gun control officer--not officer, he was a Petty Officer of some kind-on board who was in charge of the antiaircraft guns that we had. Very quiet sort of
a chap. So, he left the ship when I went back
to college, and one day when I was in the
bookstore in Evanston, I ran into this guy. I
said, “What in the world are you doing
here?” He said, “Oh, I’m here getting my
Ph.D.!” Of course, I was still working for
my undergraduate degree. So I’d been [kept
off the ship] and I thought it made an interesting conclusion to our relationship.
SEEGER: Did you receive mail?
WHITEHEAD: Oh, yeah.
�SEEGER: Did you findyou mentioned
there were five officers and
SEEGER: Was this ship, one that you were
on? That one you said was
WHITEHEAD: Yeah.
WHITEHEAD: Yeah. I was on it for a
month.
SEEGER: Was there a problem when you
were an officer as far as contact with the enlisted men?
SEEGER: You were the only white
WHITEHEAD: Yeah. That was the old
Navy line. I guess we broke the rules as
much as anybody did on a small ship like
that but still the officers had separate quarters and it was, “Sir!” this and “Sir!” that.
The officers had there own clubs on shores
at Pearl Harbor or wherever they were. The
officers had their own set-up. The enlisted
men were in a different world as far as that
part goes.
There was not a democratic relationship apparently. Let’s put it that way. Strictly from
a racial point of view, because I don’t remember that there were many blacks in the
Navy, other than stewards mates, who were
the really the waiters in those days.
The only exception to that was that one of
the first ships that I was onit was down at
Cape May, New Jersey. It was a wooden
tuna fishing boat that had been rigged up as
a minesweeper with electric cables to go out
and detector break up mines that were
electronc, I guess. I can’t think of the terminology. They were hooked up to great big
storage batteries [unintelligible] sort of a
minesweeper but they were [unintelligible]
ships, and all the officers but me were
Black.
That’s the only real occasion I can remember of being [with Blacks]I don’t think we
had no Blacks on board. I don’t know
whether they ended up in the Army or
whether that was by choice, or what went on
but
WHITEHEAD: Yeah, I was the junior officer and I think there were 2 other black
officers at that point but it was a very unusual occasion. I never saw a situation like
that.
SEEGER: Did you ever find out how that
came to be?
WHITEHEAD: No, because I was shipped
on to another ship. From there I went to another ship. We rarelyOur history of duty
was usually one of “to be prepared to move
at any time.” Those smallcraft that they used
along the Eastern Shore, there were a lot of
converted yachts. The DuPont yacht was
one of the ships that was in the harbor at
Cape May. A lovely teak wood ship had
been painted Navy gray top to bottom was
out there [unintelligible] to a submarine.
SEEGER: Was that fairly common to see
that? The ships [being commandeered] by
the service?
WHITEHEAD: I don’t know how they
handled that. I suppose the DuPonts probably would beglad to donate the ship [for
their use] or something. Or the Navy might
have leased them. Sort of like the Queen
Mary; I am sure that the Conard line probably got some rent for the use of it. My Naval
career was not [unintelligible] Halsey’s life
with theor the bombs raining down. The
Jap fleet coming through the pass and so on.
It was very
�SEEGER: How long were the days? Did
you have long days?
WHITEHEAD: Well your days were when
you were on watch for four hours and then
you were off for eight, I think. Then you
would be on for four and then you’d be off
for four. Wasn’t like being on a day shift or
the night shift in a factory. You were constantly revolving, around-the-clock. In a
small ship like that, why our boardroom and
officers quarters were below deck, with no
portholes. So there wasn’t really any place
[to go]the weather was nice outside. You
were steaming at any speed, why it was
spray and water coming over the top, so you
couldn’t take a nice book and curl up on
most occasions.
SEEGER: Was there regular [unintelligible]?
WHITEHEAD: I think so. Well, yeah. [Unintelligible] I find that, to my regret, was
that I didn’t have a camera along, but you
weren’t suppose to have a camera or film or
anything. I got a few pictures somebody
smuggled or took, but those memories are
little hard to look back on. Fifty years to
know just exactly how life was. I have spent
quite a bit of time listening to short wave
radio [unintelligible] So you could just hear
broadcasts of Tokyo Rose. Listen to Hong
Kong and some of the other stations that
were around that area as well as the ones
that were relayed from the States.
SEEGER: What did you think of the Tokyo
Rose broadcasts?
WHITEHEAD: Well, I had noI guess it
was just entertainment. Hard to imagine that
you were being seduced or persuaded otherwise. One of my favorite memories is listening to the World Series of 1945 in Tokyo
Bay, which is the last year the Chicago Cubs
played in the series! So when they talk about
that length of time, it really is quite a long
time!
SEEGER: Is there any other episodes or
events or details that we haven’t touched on
that you perhaps want to ?
WHITEHEAD: No, I don’t think so. The
War years; I can remember standing watch
with green water coming up over the bow.
You would be drenched and saying to the
other guy on watch, “These are the days we
can look back on fondly.” And I think we do
to some extent. No matter how tough the
conditions were for a small ship like that,
there was a wet duty and it was a rough duty. It was just as comfortable being in bed as
it was in any place, but yet there are people
who were on a lot smaller ships.
Then you would hear these guys on the big
ships get seasick and never get over it and
were complaining about it.
SEEGER: Did you have any trouble with
seasickness?
WHITEHEAD: I used to get sick for the
first day out and then you’d get over it. We
had some of the toughest guys on board that
would not get over it. They would literally
lie down on the deck in the wheelhouse
when they were supposed to be on watch
and froth at the mouth and we had to get rid
of those guys. This wasthey were of no
value and it was a disservice to have them
on board.
My brother-in-law was on the Yorktown and
I remember visiting him one time over there
in Japan after the war. His ship was in the
harbor. He sentI don’t know. He was a
lieutenant I think. He was a minor officer on
a huge ship, with several thousand others on
board. He sent the Admiral, or somebody,
�[important] over to our ship. I went over and
visited him and, of course, in those days any
officer who walked up the gangplank and
came aboard got the full treatment.
Then we went to the ward room and sat
down to white tableclothscelery and olives, all those things that we, in the small
ship, maybe had forgotten that it existed, so
to speak. We were eating pretty much Spartan food. Then you go upI remember going into one of those typhoon retreats over in
North Okinawa one time. We had been out
[mine-]sweeping; the typhoon was approaching. There was still fighting going on
on-shore there at Okinawa, but somehow a
couple of Army officers came on board and
I remember how appreciative they were of
the food that we gave them from our ship.
Because they had been eating out of a tin
can or hardtack, C-rations, or something
during that entire battle up there. It all depends on your views as to what you’re being
fed.
SEEGER: Did the typhoon hit?
WHITEHEAD: Well, I think it did but I
think it didn’t come into area we were in.
When those things hitwell, the ship that
carried the atomic bomb out there [unintelligible] Submarine I think, going down to the
Philippines afterward [with] the Indianapolis, which was a big cruiser. There were two
or three destroyers that went through the typhoon and literally took in water in the funnels and they rolled over to the point where
the engine rooms were deluged and they literally sank. So even on a modern [unintelligible] ship like that when you get into bad
weather you can be sunk. So life went on
and we lived happily ever after. I guess
that’s all [I] can say, Gerhardt.
SEEGER: Thank you, John.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
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pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Gerhardt Seegers
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
John B. Whitehead
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
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Title
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John B. Whitehead
Date
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December 21, 1993
Description
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Born September 10, 1923, John B. Whitehead was drafted in 1942. He served in the Navy until 1947.
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Midway Village Museum
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pdf
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/25224/archive/files/5e1c4f033c10d9634c2097ef7a053693.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=K9j20NfgvMkNDhHrwGQ-JusGVXMjIMpI1bb47TmsnxlmCabfi%7EV5ZoMwPoZ3KpApFBU6539Ho6nDWvzkSpCjZOReufJ2LrIBnUEdKe9OpiJlgINAG9J-p0nSIayrXd5lOM7yR8q0zmdwkQUGowsF5s8n4gLDsH8RCdTWxqw8Q2EsXEeWWqo8W2dRDNJ8lj%7ELVnsYjc2lB3pnQBvFbRPczUTmusacQze5h0rQo44gS-I507u1jidTWn0VPBjF0XDN7B7U2fUCdqLgZV12wsFcYYDlFE9%7EyIKnNYjpYhRMLWiVgpvdhSfm3f3BBQhsIJwzy7D2Z2xCoJ8aub82iQDQvA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
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PDF Text
Text
John Danaher
Interviewed August 8, 1994
By Volunteer Charles Nelson
Transcribed by volunteer Lorraine Lightcap
For Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815.397.9112
Midwayvillage.com
Edited November 7, 2018 by
volunteer Martha Byrnes
�John Danaher
Today is August 8, 1994. My name is Charles
Nelson. I am a volunteer at Midway Village and
Museum Center in Rockford, Illinois, participating in a statewide effort to collect oral histories from Illinois citizens who participated in the
momentous events that surrounded World War
II. We are in the office of Midway Village and
Museum Center interviewing John Danaher. Mr.
Danaher served in a branch of the United Forces
during World War II. We are interviewing him
about his experiences during that war.
NELSON: John, would you please start by introducing yourself to us. Please give us your full
name, place and date of birth. We would also
like to know the names of each of your parents.
DANAHER: Okay. My name is John Danaher
and I was born in LaSalle County in Illinois. My
birth date is February 14, 1920. My father was
Michael Danaher and my mother was Katherine
Danaher. I was raised near the small town of
Winona, Illinois, about 100 miles south of
Rockford.
NELSON: Did you have any brothers or sisters?
DANAHER: I had one sister. She is 12 years
younger than I am. She is now a retired scientist.
She and her husband worked in a big company
that made all kinds of medicine and this type of
thing. She has a doctorate and is now retired, but
she is 12 years younger than I [am], and [as] one
of my friends said, “She not only gets the brains
from the family but she also got the looks!”
DANAHER: In 1941, of course, things were
getting unsettled. I was in college at Illinois
State University and I figured that I was going to
be taken in the draft. I decided not to go back to
school in the fall of 1941. I had enlisted on August 28th, 1941 into the Navy Air Corp. They
weren’t able to take me until January 2nd [which]
is when I went into the service. And I can remember very well when the
NELSON: Well, we’ll get to that a little bit later. What thoughts did you have about the war
before the United States became directly involved in the conflict?
DANAHER: It was very, very clear that there
was going to be a war. It was imminent, this
type of thing, and so I wanted to enlist so that I
could choose the branch I wanted to go into. I
wanted to fly and so the reason I went with the
Navy was, I heard--and I don’t know if this is
true--that if you washed out of the Navy, maybe
the Army would give you a chance. But the reverse was not true, so that’s why…, --I really
wanted to go to the Army Air Corp. That’s why
I ended up with the Navy.
NELSON: You did too well on your test! How
did you hear of December 7th, 1941, bombing of
Pearl Harbor by the Japanese? If so, where were
you and what were you doing at the time? What
was your reaction and response to those around
you?
NELSON: Are there any details about your
parents and/or family that you would like to
give?
DANAHER: Well, as I said, we had been to
church and then we had lunch in the dining
room. I was carrying out the dishes to the kitchen when [the radio announcer] broke in with
they shut off the Bears’ game, and told about the
Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor.
DANAHER: My father and mother lived on a
farm. Their forebears had come over from Europe and settled many years ago and the family
was into farming for many, many years. I
farmed for a while after World War II myself.
NELSON: Do you remember who the Bears
were playing?
NELSON: What was life like for you before the
war especially during 1941?
DANAHER: No, I don’t.
�NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or
developed any feeling about what was taking
place in Europe or Asia?
DANAHER: Well, I don’t know, we were very
cognizant of the situation in Europe, of course,
but I think we were surprised at the Japanese,
you know, attack on Pearl Harbor.
NELSON: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
DANAHER: Yes, I do. But I can’t tell you specifically that there was, you know. We read the
papers like most other people and, of course, we
had the radio. That was before television.
NELSON: Newsreels. You knew
DANAHER: Oh, yes.
NELSON: Did you have any knowledge of Hitler’s speeches, ideas or actions?
DANAHER: Not that I recall, really. I suppose
we did but I don’t recall them specifically.
been already into the Army Air Corp, as they
called it at that time. He used to write back these
glowing letters, and he was up in New England
at the time that war broke [out], and he lost his
life going from Australia up to one of the Japanese islands. They had put their planes onto the
first carrier that the Navy had, and they were
having these P-40s taken up there, and it was
sunk and he was lost in the battle.
NELSON: When and where were you inducted?
DANAHER: I started at St. Louis at the air station down there on the 2nd of January, 1942.
NELSON: Did you have any special memories
of that event?
DANAHER: Oh, yes. They had us walking duty
and it was real cold and snowy down there. You
would have thought the Japanese were at the
outer suburbs--that they were going to take over
St. Louis! But, anyhow, that’s where we went.
From there we went to New Orleans and then
from there to Corpus Christi, Texas, where I
took flight training.
NELSON: What events led to your entry into
military service? Were you already in service,
drafted or did you volunteer?
NELSON: How old were you?
DANAHER: Well, I had already volunteered
and I had raised my hand and sworn in on August 28th. I was waiting. They told me it would
probably be a month and something like this,
you know. So then word wasn’t coming and I
was getting a little concerned. I heard very
quickly after the attack.
NELSON: Were you?
NELSON: Now your response in entering the
military service, was that influenced by family
and friends attitude towards the war or the threat
to national security or any other consideration?
DANAHER: How old am I? 74.
DANAHER: Oh, let’s see? I was 22.
NELSON: What happened after you were inducted and where were you sent?
DANAHER: I was sent to St. Louis and then
some immediate flying and ground school and
then to New Orleans and then to Corpus Christi,
Texas.
NELSON: What did you think of the training?
DANAHER: I don’t know if any or all
NELSON: You wanted to fly.
DANAHER: Well, I was, and one of the fellows that I knew and I grew up with, and he had
DANAHER: Well, I think it was very thorough.
They kept you in line. We had a lot of things to
learn as anybody involved with aircraft knows.
Now, I wanted to be a fighter pilot, of course,
like most guys, and I got stuck with the “big and
�slow” big, twin-engine seaplanes. We took our
final training in the old PBYs, which were out in
the Pacific when the war started. Then we went
into--when I graduated--we went into flying a
big twin-engine seaplane, which was much bigger that the old PBY, I won’t say any better, but
they got us back. We were at anti-sub, in the
Atlantic for a long time and then air/sea rescue
in the Pacific.
[Editor’s Note: the Consolidated PBY Catalina
was known as a “flying boat.” November 2018:
http://www.worldwar2headquarters.com/HTML/
aircraft/americanAircraft/catalina.html]
NELSON: Were you a pilot or copilot?
DANAHER: Well, both. I started out as a copilot and then eventually I had my own crew.
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or passes?
DANAHER: Oh, yes.
NELSON: If so, how did you use them?
DANAHER: Sightseeing mostly, you know.
NELSON: What do you recall of this period
about the places you were stationed, the friends
you made and your association with civilians?
DANAHER: Pretty limited as far as with other
people who lived in the area. Well, there was a
few people that had you over for dinner or
something like this, but basically, we were with
our own group of trainees.
NELSON: Okay, you pretty well explained
about your training, is there anything about the
training that you would like to add to that before
we get you overseas?
DANAHER: No, I think it was pretty routine.
We had this one fella…
[Interruption by Nelson, then resumes.]
NELSON: Well, anyway, you got your wings?
DANAHER: Oh, yes, you bet it was. That’s
why we were going to get married when I got
through.
NELSON: You had a fiancée at the time?
DANAHER: Oh, yes. And we didn’t know because of weather, all this type of thing, when we
were going to actually be [able to have the ceremony]. When I first signed up, you couldn’t get
married for four years. Then as it got closer to ,
war they dropped it to two years, and then when
war came, they said, “When you get through
with your flight training.” So that’s why we got
married in 1942.
NELSON: Where did you go after completing
your basic military training? All your preflight
training and all this training? Whereabouts
overseas did you go?
DANAHER: First, we came back and we went
to additional training because we switched from
the PBYs to PBMs and down to--into Florida,
not too far from Cape Canaveral now. They
called it the Banana River Naval Air Station.
That was where we transferred from PBY planes
into PBM, which was a larger plane, but I
wouldn’t say any better.
[Editor: Additional information on the Martin
Mariner PBM patrol bomber in November 2018:
http://www.worldwar2headquarters.com/HTML/
aircraft/americanAircraft/mariner.html]
NELSON: More difficult to fly?
DANAHER: I don’t think so. I think it had
some things that were improvements, that [made
it] easier than the old one.
NELSON: Did you have armaments on that
plane?
DANAHER: Not during training, but as soon as
we were put into [an] anti-sub squadron, and we
operated out of Norfolk and all up and down the
East Coast in search of German submarines.
NELSON: When and where were you sent
overseas and how did you get there?
�DANAHER: Well, the first time I went overseas was in the Panama Canal. We were down
there [inaudible] from there down to out in the
Pacific.
NELSON: By ship?
DANAHER: No, we flew.
NELSON: Oh, you flew?
DANAHER: By this time with a squadron. We
were sent down there to protect the Canal from
attack. They were afraid the Japanese were going to come over to knock it out and they’d have
to go clear around, you know.
NELSON: Even the Germans, too?
DANAHER: Yes, they were more concerned at
that time about the Japanese, and because then
they would have to go all the way around, you
know, South America, and add thousands of
miles. So we were there for a while, and then we
did anti-subs in the Atlantic off the East Coast
from Norfolk; we operated all the way up to
Quonset Point, Rhode Island. This type of thing,
too.
They were able to salvage it. The Skipper--this
is something you won’t be able to read about in
history books--but anyhow, the German sub
skipper, who was in charge, was knocked out
during the battle. He claims they brought them
into Bermuda. The old gent was down in the
local hospital -- the military hospital. He had one
leg partially amputated below the knee. One of
my good friends had been in for minor surgery
down there. I’d go down to visit him and walked
right past the door of the old boy. He didn’t look
happy, I’ll tell you. Now, I never talked to him
[directly]. My friend, when he got mobile, he
went down --and he used to speak some English
[the skipper]. He was worried about his family
back in Germany in one of the big cities. They
also had a home out at a lake and he was hoping
the wife had taken the kids out there. He was
captured.
I did see where the skipper of the Guadalcanal,
which was a small jeep carrier, that helped to get
them. They ended up being friends, but my
friend, he would go down and visit the old boy
[the German skipper] and he asked him, “Did
you ever see any of our planes?” He said, “Many
times, but we see you first and then we pulled
the trigger."
NELSON: Then they would dive?
NELSON: Did you ever see any submarines
[inaudible] --any German submarines?
DANAHER: That’s right.
DANAHER: No, I [inaudible] --Yes, I did.
NELSON: What did you think of the nation’s
war effort up to this point?
NELSON: Not at this time?
DANAHER: No, later we did. In fact, I might
cover that right now. The sub that’s on display
up in the Museum of Science and Industry…
[The U-505 German submarine is displayed at
the Museum of Science & Industry Chicago.
http://www.msichicago.org/explore.]
DANAHER: We started off without much help
with anything but with the surprise that we were
taken into it, but, I think they made great progress. There’s no question about it. Boy, the
people at home in the factories and so on and so
forth that gave us the planes and the guns and
the crews….
NELSON: They gave us good equipment, too.
NELSON: 234? I've seen it there.
DANAHER: Yes, they sure did.
DANAHER: Okay. It’s up there. It came into
Bermuda while we were operating out of there.
It had been captured off the coast of Africa.
NELSON: Tell us about your experience of entering your first combat zone. Unless you want
�to [inaudible] --this would qualify, I suppose, as
a combat zone around the Panama Canal.
You’ve told us that. From there you went to
Panama. Where’d you go from the Panama area?
DANAHER: We went back out to Bermuda and
then I was sent back to Corpus Christi, Texas, as
an instructor down there, getting new crews to
go out to the Pacific. While I was there I was
asked to take a brand new crew in the Air/Sea
Rescue out to the Pacific. So, we were an
Air/Sea Squadron that operated out of Saipan,
and then at Okinawa prior to the end of the war.
NELSON: Were these people flying PBYs
mostly?
DANAHER: No, but I said PBYs early -- most
of us that were [there were] in the PBMs.
NELSON: What did you think of the war so
far?
DANAHER: Well, I didn’t like it.
NELSON: Didn’t like it?
NELSON: How many crew members did you
have?
DANAHER: No, I was glad when it was over,
but I wouldn’t take a lot for the experiences and
the people we met.
DANAHER: Well, it varies, depending on [inaudible] … 8 to 10, sometimes 12.
NELSON: Wouldn’t invest a million dollars?
(laughter) Did you write many letters home?
NELSON: Sometimes 12? Why would you
need so many?
DANAHER: Yes.
NELSON: How about receiving letters?
DANAHER: They had to have people to [inaudible] …if they got down, and had to have
swimmers to get the pilots, this type of thing, so
on and so forth.
NELSON: In your combat experience were you
ever involved with anyone that sustained casualties? How they occurred and how they were
treated?
DANAHER: Fine, I corresponded, of course,
with my parents and, as I say, we got married
after I got through flight training and so [inaudible].
NELSON: Will you tell us a little bit about
that?
DANAHER: About what now?
DANAHER: None of us were captured.
NELSON: Never got involved with that?
DANAHER: No, not with that, no, but we did
get up to Japan, itself.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change as
combat continued?
DANAHER: Well, I think we were concerned
just like everybody else. I’m concerned now,
going out on the highways(!) But we were
lucky; we lost so many good friends, or --you
know-- to crashes.
NELSON: When you got married. Did you get
some time off?
DANAHER: Yes. We went to Norfolk, Virginia, where we operated out of, and my wife was
able to be with me when we were stateside.
NELSON: Did you wife work during the conflict?
DANAHER: No, she didn’t.
NELSON: Where did she stay?
DANAHER: Well, you know, where we stayed
in places where we were stationed….
�NELSON: She followed you around?
NELSON: Did you forge close friendships with
many, or some, of your combat companions?
DANAHER: Yes, many of our group was that
way. In fact, we got friends that we are still [in]
contact with that got married at the same time
we [did].
DANAHER: Yes, very definitely.
NELSON: Where did she go when you left?
DANAHER: Yes, we [have] had several reunions.
DANAHER: Norfolk, that was the first one--all
up and down the East Coast and then later on
down in Corpus Christi, Texas, and then out to
San Diego where we took off
NELSON: How were the facilities where you
were staying?
DANAHER: Places where we stayedin most
cases was in private homes.
NELSON: I see.
DANAHER: And we correspondednice people took us in, you know. In fact, Rosemary got
pregnant before I left for the Pacific. We were in
San Diego and she was a grandmother herselfthe old lady. But, she took care of Rosemary like a daughter.
I will never forget one thing. When we took off
to fly out to the Pacific, we took off before dark
and flew out during the night. I got there in
mid-morning, 16.8 hours it took. That was one
of the newer planes that we had. We landed over
there and our planewe landed in the water and
then they would put dual wheels on the side and
pull us up a ramp to park. We werethis tractor
was pulling us and there were three or four
young fellows. I walked across there and one of
them was a kid from my hometown! I didn’t see
him again until after the war, and he still lives in
our hometown.
NELSON: Have you remained in contact with
any of your World War II companions?
NELSON: Did you ever have to help retrieve a
wounded buddy? (Nelson is reading the question
and makes the comment, “I don’t think this
question pertains to us.” Nelson continues with
another question).
What was the highlight occurrence of combat
experience or any other experiences that you
remember?
DANAHER: I think two big things were the
rescues that we made. We were Air/Sea Rescue
out in the Pacific. We rescued, first of all, one
Corsair pilot that washad to gowell, he was
actually shot down, but he wasn’t able to get all
the way back to base, and had to bail out and
that was the day that they dropped the bomb on
Nagasaki. We saw the cloud from that.
NELSON: Can you tell us a little about that?
DANAHER: Yes. We were sent up. We took
off pre-dawn because we were slower than the
Corsairs with the fighter planes – [they] took off
afterwards and caught up with us. We were just
at the southern tip of Kyushu, which is the
southernmost [major] island of Japan.
NELSON: (Interruption). How far is that from
Japan?
DANAHER: Oh, I don’t remember. Japan, that
was Japan.
NELSON: How about the other guys. Did they
write letters and receive letters from home?
NELSON: That was Japan?
DANAHER: Oh, sure.
DANAHER: Yeah. That would be the southern
most island.
�NELSON: I see.
DANAHER: Right. We did a lot of searching.
DANAHER: We were just off the thing. We
were sent up there with this group of fighter
planes who were going in to strafe and bomb
airfields. They left a small group out there with
us. It looked like a big mother hen with baby
chicks, except the chicks had the sting. So we
were just waiting for them up there as they come
back out. We were just circling around. We
come around 180 and there was the mushroom.
We didn’t take pictures or if we did the photo
(Laughter).
NELSON: I see.
DANAHER: I forget how many days. After
four or five days if they hadn’t found somebody,
they kind of gave it up.
NELSON: Did they have a radio or anything?
DANAHER: They had little hand-crank click
radios with them.
NELSON: Did you know what it was?
NELSON: What did they call thoseGibson
girls or something like that.
DANAHER: Of course. They had briefed us.
DANAHER: Yes.
NELSON: They had briefed you that you might
see this.
DANAHER: And this was the SECOND one.
NELSON: Tell us about [inaudible]. You had
mentioned before a case where four men [were]
in a pontoon boat for a certain length of time
that you rescued?
NELSON: I see. Nagasaki.
DANAHER: Oh, no. That was two P-51 pilots.
DANAHER: I know. Excuse me for interrupting but we did pick up one of the Corsair pilots.
He had to bail out. He was a young Marine and
he wasn’t in the water, I don’t think, [more than]
15 or 20 minutes.
NELSON: Okay.
NELSON: How did you know where to find
these people?
DANAHER: Find them? We were right there
with them.
NELSON: Okay. When they went down?
DANAHER: Yes, we had him in sight when he
went down.
NELSON: Well did every group of fighter
planes have your type of plane along with them?
DANAHER: No.
NELSON: Well how about planes that would
go down where there weren’t your type of airplane rescue?
DANAHER: That was right at the end, too.
They had gotten lost coming back from Kyushu
and had missed Okinawa because of haze, and
they couldn’t raise anybody on the radio. They
were lost.
So what happened is they went east -- they were
going southwest. They had missed it, to the
south, and they were lost. One plane that ran out
of fuel first, he bailed out. Then the second pilot
stayed up until his [engine] konked out and then
he bailed out. [They] Came down out of sight of
each other. It was getting toward dusk, and well,
toward the later part of the day, and just shortly
before dark. They [inaudible] just before a crest
of a wave by the other fella. They tied the two
rafts together. One fellow, when he bailed out,
had taken kind of a chunk out of the calf of his
leg, so they put him in the raft that was best and
the other guy had to keep bailing and scooping
the water out. They were out there four nights
and four days, going on into the fifth night.
�They had seen all kinds of planes go over them
and none of them had spotted them. They had
used mirrors, and so on and so forth. Here come
two B-24s coming up from Saipan. As they got
past them, one fellow had despaired and had not
tried to… because nobody else [inaudible], but
the other guy kept flashing, and the tail gunner
caught a feeling, I guess, when they started to
make the circle. Then they, in turn, called in to
Air/Sea rescue. How we were involved? We
were on the plane on standby and
NELSON: Did you get any gifts from home or
anything?
NELSON: You were flying at the time?
DANAHER: I would have liked to have fought
DANAHER: No, we were sitting at Okinawa.
DANAHER: Oh, yeah. Like you know, some
cookies and I suppose cake but mostly cookies, I
think.
NELSON: The next question pertains to going
back home. Is there anything else while you’re
still over there in the Pacific that you would like
to add to that?
NELSON: Add to this, I mean
NELSON: How far were you from there?
DANAHER: No, we wrote a lot of letters.
DANAHER: Oh, about an hour, about an hour
out. We were afraid we weren’t going to get out
there before dusk. In fact, we came back in the
dark. We had jet assist to take off by this time,
too.
NELSON: They gave you a location where they
were?
NELSON: Okay.
DANAHER: No, a lot of letters back and forth.
NELSON: Now what happened when you arrived [back] in the United States?
DANAHER: You mean coming home?
DANAHER: Yes, the B-24s did. In fact, I met
one of those pilots a couple of years ago. We
had a reunion and one of the young fellows that
we picked out of the water, who had despaired,
was the main speaker. So I had never met the
pilot or any of the crew of the other plane because we were just airborne. So, after all those
years, there were three of us that [inaudible].
NELSON: ‘Lot to talk about.
DANAHER: That’s for sure.
NELSON: Tell us about how you and the other
men celebrated traditional holidays, such as
Thanksgiving and Christmas?
DANAHER: Well, they usually had some better
chow than other times, if they had it.
NELSON: That was about it.
DANAHER: Yes, it was.
NELSON: Yes.
DANAHER: Okay. We were at Okinawa, as I
said, and having been signed up before war
starting I got a chance to come home, but I had
flown every place I went and I was put on a little
destroyer escort as a typhoon was moving in.
Anyhow, to make a long story short, it was a
rough ride for a few days but the [inaudible]
broke out and the flying fish were out, you
know, and we were heading home, and the sun
was shining and the Cubs were in the World Series. We listened to them --each day an hour later-- and they didn’t win that one, and they’ve
never been in one since! What do you think of
that?
But I remember coming into the Golden Gate.
We were coming in at mid-morning and there
was ground fog, and we could see the Golden
�Gate [bridge] as we came through the mist, and
there she is!
NELSON: Wonderful feeling?
DANAHER: Oh, yes!
NELSON: Tell us about your military rank,
your decorations, especially campaign ribbons.
DANAHER: I didn’t get anything like this for
bravery. We got [inaudible] various things.
What am I trying to say?
NELSON: Campaign ribbons?
DANAHER: Yes, campaign ribbons, but .
DANAHER: Well, I had some great teammates.
I think more of a team as opposed, to say, [inaudible] in a big group of men. We were relatively
small50 to 60, -100, something like this, you
know. Made some fast friends and we’re still in
touch.
NELSON: Were you housed in the same area?
DANAHER: Maybe just another tent down the
way.
NELSON: Would you change anything or do
anything different if you had a chance to do it
again?
NELSON: Did you get the Air Medal?
DANAHER: Yeah. I’d like to be a fighter pilot.
(Laughter). No, I can’t saypleasedthe good
Lord was good so (Interruption)
DANAHER: No, I don’t think I did. See, we
were pretty much in a
NELSON: Well, I think you made a wise decision as you returned.
NELSON: Non-combat area.
DANAHER: Returned?
DANAHER: Yes. That’s exactly right. No, I
didn’t get any big Air Medals [inaudible] or anything like that because I didn’t deserve it. We
didn’t we were involved in many places and
so forth, but the only time that we really [were
close] to [an] actual battlefield was in the South
Pacific, and I didn’t get to it.
NELSON: Yes, when you returned and came
back home.
NELSON: So, you weren’t considered having
missions? You were on standby, so any time you
could get a call?
DANAHER: Well, we were assigned almost
daily.
DANAHER: Well, we were lucky.
NELSON: What was the most difficult thing
you had to do during your period in military service?
DANAHER: Well, I don’t know. We had plenty
of challenges I would say. For example, going to
Sergeant [inaudible].
NELSON: You didn’t fly probably [inaudible]?
Why, my goodness, somebody would be there
for breakfast and killed before lunch. So we
were …and some were very good friends.
DANAHER: No, not every day. I think I ended
up with a little over 2,000 flight hours.
NELSON: What was your most successful
achievement in the military service?
NELSON: That’s a lot of hours. How did you
get along with the [crew] members with whom
you had the greatest contact?
DANAHER: I think it was very hard work and
you could be out in nothing flat, in about two or
three days. You could be down.
�I think it was pressure in that respect. I think the
Navy did a great job of teaching us, and then
also when we got out that the junior officers or
pilots were brought up [inaudible] so the next few
DANAHER: Yes, they did. I don’t know the
numbers but too many. We would look for them
so many times in emergencies. Why, if they had
given us a decent report
days if you were. [Nelson interrupts.]
NELSON: Where they were?
NELSON: Well-trained?
This has to do with the war in Europe. How did you
learn about VE Day and what was your reaction to it?
Do you remember?
DANAHER: Yes, I do. I’m just trying to think where
we were at the time. That was June the 6th.
NELSON: I think that was in May.
DANAHER: Was it May?
NELSON: Yes.
DANAHER: Okay.
NELSON: I think around May the 8th.
[Editor: May 8 and 9, 1945.]
DANAHER: Okay, I remember hearing about it at
the time, but what the [inaudible] source.
NELSON: How about VJ Day?
[Editor: August 14-15, 1945.]
DANAHER: Oh, boy that’s going back. Yes,
[inaudible].
NELSON: You knew about the first bomb that
they dropped?
DANAHER: Yeah. See we were stationed at
Saipan, and Saipan is [inaudible] the bomb is the
[inaudible] B-29, so we worked a lot with the
B29s because a lot of them were coming out
over [inaudible], so they would send us out at
various stations.
NELSON: Sure.
DANAHER: And when they were going and
coming.
NELSON: Did they have a lot of B-29s?
[Transcript incomplete]
�Endnotes:
John Danaher
Birth Date: 14 February 1920, Illinois
Enlistment Date: 2 January 1942
Release Date: 10 December 1945
Death Date: 1 August 1997
Source Information found 7 November 2018:
Ancestry.com. U.S., Department of Veterans
Affairs BIRLS Death File, 1850-2010 [database
on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.
Original data: Beneficiary Identification Records
Locator Subsystem (BIRLS) Death File. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs.
Naval Aircraft Resources:
Swanborough and Bowers, United States
Navy Aircraft since 1911. Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 1990.
Richard Alden Hoffman, The Fighting Flying
Boat: A history of the Martin PBM Mariner.
Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 2004.
Bill Gunston, Combat Aircraft of World War II.
London: Salamander Books Ltd., 1978.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
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Midway Village Museum
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Midway Village Museum
Date
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1993-2001
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
John Danaher
Location
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Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
John Danaher
Description
An account of the resource
John Danaher was born February 14, 1920. He enlisted in the Navy Air Corps in August 1941 and served until December 1945. He died August 1, 1997.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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PDF Text
Text
John T. Sowle—1
John T. SOWLE:
Transcribed by Lorraine Lightcap
Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
�John T. Sowle—2
John T. Sowle
Today is June 5, 1996. My name is Charles
Nelson. I am a volunteer for Midway Village
and Museum Center, Rockford, Illinois, which
is cooperating with the statewide effort of
Illinois to collect oral histories from World War
II Veterans that participated in the momentous
events that occurred during World War II. We
are in the office of Midway Village interviewing
Dr. John Sowle. Dr. Sowle served in the branch
of the military armed services during World
War II. We are interviewing him about his
experience in that war.
NELSON: John, would you please start by
introducing yourself by giving us your full
name, place and date of birth. We would also
like the name of each of your parents.
SOWLE: My name is John T. Sowle. I was
born in Rockford, Illinois, in 1920. My
parents—my father was Charles J. Sowle and
my mother was Gertrude Elizabeth Stewart, then
of course, Sowle. My father was a dentist and he
was the one that developed the ROTC program
in Rockford at Central High School for several
years on a volunteer basis.
NELSON: Did you have any brothers or
sisters?
Corps in 1942. I had worked at Ropers for 9 or
10 months.
NELSON: What thoughts did you have about
the war before the United States became directly
involved in the conflict?
SOWLE: It seems to me that I wasn’t really
involved. Didn’t think a lot about it. But as I
recall, I was interested, I think, in sports and
things like that. I did have a hobby. I was a
camp(?) gremlin in the years at high school until
I went into the service. Don’t think I was really
conscious of the situation until we went into the
war. Then right then I thought it was time to
enlist.
NELSON: Did you go because of the December
7th bombing of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese? If
so, where were you and what were you doing at
that time?
SOWLE: At the time I was bowling on a
Sunday afternoon. I don’t recall the lanes but I
remember the announcement and that kind of
took care of the bowling. At the time there was
sort of a somber reaction, as I recall.
NELSON: What was your reaction as to
responsibility?
SOWLE: Yes, I have one brother that is living
who is a dentist. I also had two more brothers,
Stewart Sowle, who also was a dentist in
Rockford and ____?____Sowle who was in the
dental business and two sisters, one in Rockford
and one in Peoria, Illinois.
SOWLE: I was, of course, astounded, mad,
upset about it it was the topic of conversation
for a good long time. Along with the group of
people I was associated with at that time, several
of us enlisted over the next two to three months.
NELSON: What was life like before the war
and specifically during.
NELSON: Do you recall any newspaper
accounts of things and events in Europe?
SOWLE: I graduated from Central High and
entered the University of Illinois in the fall of
1940. I attended the university until the spring
of 1941 and then left the school and went to
work for the George Roper Corporation. I
enlisted in the Naval Service, the Naval Air
SOWLE: Yes, I do. I remember that was a
concern of mine at the time.
NELSON: Did you ever know of Hitler’s
speeches, his actions?
�John T. Sowle—3
SOWLE: Yes, I did. I was just amazed at his
transgressions and like everybody else felt
something had to be done about it.
NELSON: What events led to your military
service? Were you drafted or did you enlist?
SOWLE: Actually I was—I volunteered but I
was aware of the fact that my number was
coming up. At least I thought it was.
NELSON: Was your response to entering into
the military service influenced by your family
and friends’ attitude toward the war, or a threat
to national security or any other considerations?
SOWLE: I’m sure it was. I was concerned
because I had lost some associates and friends
that had been in the service and had been
involved. That, I think, was probably the main
reason. And, of course, my father being a
military man even though he did practice
dentistry he was much involved in the Illinois
National Guard here.
NELSON: When and where were you inducted?
SOWLE: I was inducted in Chicago in
February of ’42. I remember the name of J.
Burlagen (?), an outstanding author at the
University of Chicago who interviewed me. He
talked to me about my enlistment.
NELSON: Did you have any special memories
of this event?
SOWLE: Yes, I do. Because of that man, I can
remember that I was impressed because I knew
the name he really was a gentleman.
NELSON: How old were you then?
SOWLE: I was twenty-one.
NELSON: What happened after you were
inducted and where were you sent?
SOWLE: I was sent to Iowa City for three
months of physical fitness and basic training.
Primarily it was one-half day of physical fitness
and one-half day of diabetics. I was a naval
cadet air cadet and that did have quite a
bit of math involved in it.
NELSON: What did you think of the training?
SOWLE: I thought it was excellent training. I
remember my mother came down to visit me
after the 3 months period of hard training. When
my mother came down to visit, she was
impressed with my physical health at that time. I
remember that I had been smoking and I stopped
because of the condition down there.
NELSON: Tell us about any other events
pertaining to your training.
SOWLE: Well, we had 3 months of training
there and then had liberty on weekends. If we
could pass an aptitude test on Saturday, they let
us out on Sunday afternoon for two or three
hours. It was a rigorous training and I remember
that I was whole heartedly involved in it. We
left for Danville, Illinois. I just started pilot’s
training and was there for 5 months. Actually, it
was scheduled for a 3 month period but because
of the weather around Chicago a lot of our
flying time was canceled. A lot of the flights
were canceled because of the weather especially
in the fall of the year. I remember that it took
about six weeks to get in four hours of night
flying. That was the last part of the course that
we had to do. From there I went to Corpus
Christi and was in the King Ranch outlying
fields. Went through training there and
graduated in August of ’43.
NELSON: Do you recall friends and associates
that you made with civilians at that time?
SOWLE: Not so much with civilians. I can’t
recall having any contact with civilians during
the training. Immediately after graduation I went
to Hawaii. There I joined a squadron that was
sent to Guadalcanal and just part of that for 2
months.
NELSON: That was with the Navy?
�John T. Sowle—4
SOWLE: Actually, when I graduated from
Corpus Christi we had an opportunity to join a
Marine Corps if you so desired. I inquired of
Jerry Foss of ____?____Corpus Christi where
we talked with him. He told us of his exploits
and a dozen of us could hardly wait to join the
Marine Corps, which we did. There were Navy
____?____ who couldn’t believe this. After we
graduated in the Marines, I was a 2nd Lieutenant
and for some reason I recall that I was to be
married on that leave we were sent
immediately to San Diego and then directly to
Hawaii, so I had no leave for two years.
NELSON: Where did you go after completing
your military training?
SOWLE: Well, we went directly to Hawaii and
weactually I was trained as a fighter
pilotbut when we got to Hawaii—it was just
after the bombing of Midway and they were
replacing men into the squadrons that were on
Midway. So as they were short of dive bomber
pilots, four or five of us volunteered to join that
squadron and go down to Guadalcanal. That’s
what we did.
NELSON: Were there ____?____.
SOWLE: No, these were SPD’s, dive bombers.
NELSON: I see. When you were sent overseas,
how did you get there?
SOWLE: We took a boat to Hawaii and trained
there for about 6 weeks. Then we took time
going down to ____?____ in the New Hebrides.
That was the staging area for Guadalcanal.
NELSON: What was the ____?____ up to this
point?
SOWLE: I was impressed with it. As I recall it
was very well organized and as I looked at the
equipment that I was issued, I couldn’t believe
the way they took track of it. I just generally
thought the service was very competent.
NELSON: Tell us about your experience
entering your first combat zone.
SOWLE: Well, we were at Guadalcanal and
then left with the squadron there and then we
were based about 150 mile north at the island of
[Lundel]. There we staged the first combat flight
that I had been with and invaded Bougainville.
We flew flight and dive bombing before the
troops went in to land at Bougainville. I
understood the Bougainville landing was just to
develop three or four air strips so we could fly
from [Lundel] into Bougainville. Then we could
fly up and down from [Lundel]. and that’s what
our mission was.
NELSON: I see. Can you list for us in the order
of occurrence the combat actions in which you
were involved?
SOWLE: Yes. The first this wasn’t combat
action we were scheduled at [Lundel] and we
were ten of us were sent back to Guadalcanal
to pick up some new aircraft. I remember that
we checked them out on the ground as they had
been there for awhile. We checked them out on
the ground and then took off. Once up my
engine cut out and I went down and landed back
on the runway. Got back and a guy looked at the
engine, put a cap on the ____?____ and that was
my first experience in combat. In December of
that year, 1943, we started bombing ____?____.
On the first mission I was shot down and spent 2
days in the water, was located and returned to
my squadron. I was on leave then for a week or
ten days and then started flying again. And that
was the way that we operated in the Marine
Corps. You had six weeks in combat and then
we had ten days R and R (rest and relaxation)
and then you were and in training for another six
weeks. After that you were back into combat.
You did that until your time was up and that’s
what we did. That was the procedure until I was
relieved and sent back in November of 1944.
NELSON: When you were shot down in the
water, what was that caused by?
�John T. Sowle—5
SOWLE: The way we operated from down in
[Lundel] it involved 65 dive bombers, 38 PBS
and about 200 fighter planes. We all agreed on
the lay up. We had fighter cover through all
areas at 30,000 feet and 240180 then 12. We
started our bombing range about 21,000 feet.
We pushed over and got speed up over the target
and, of course, then we went down. I was
approaching [LaVel] and zeros were all over the
place. One came up to our formation and
exploded, probably a 20 millimeter cannon shot
or something like that. My gunman got it and
was killed immediately. It destroyed some of my
controls so I had no rudder control but I had arm
control. So I had to leave the formation because
I couldn’t stay in it and started back home. Of
course there were planes all over the air all
over the water and there was no use in telling
anybody as we had radio silence. It didn’t work
anyway. So I started back home because I had
no rudder control. To keep ahead I had to fly
with one wing down and that probably saved my
life as two zeros had started making runs on me.
But because I was in a skid all the time it wasn’t
easy for them to destroy my aircraft. I started
losing oil. Well, I got back and kept losing
altitude and of course the zeros couldn’t stay
with me because I had a lot of fighter friends all
over the sky. So I started back and I was losing
altitude. Finally my engine conked out, lost all
controls and had a water landing. The gunner
was, of course, dead at the time as far as I could
tell. I got in the water and got in my raft all right
and then just started drifting. I struggled so
much getting that boat out and then getting out
of the water that I fell asleep. When I woke up I
could see land it was Bougainville. So I got
____?____ so the current took me into the
island. But Bougainville was 130 miles long and
all we had was a perimeter of about 10 miles in
the middle of this 130 miles so I drifted down
the coast. Finally a day and a half or two days
later I was opposite where we had our runway
metal runways that we used as I described
earlier. I thought for sure I would get into shore
but I couldn’t. So I was kind of frustrated. All of
a sudden I heard machine guns and I thought,
gee, they’re strafing me. Well actually it was a
navy pilot that signaled his leader that he was
dropping out of the formation because he had
seen me. So he started circling me and pretty
soon 4 or 5 others joined him. Then two PT
boats came out and picked me up.
NELSON: Wonderful! I suppose this was a
grand experience for you?
SOWLE: Yes, it was. I don’t remember
everything being real scary but when I first got
hit at that altitude, my first inclination was to
climb out and hit that parachute. But for some
reason or other I stayed with it as I had a little
control. So I felt that was fortunate. If I had
bailed out earlier, boy, at that time they were
shooting parachutes up so my chance of survival
was nil.
NELSON: Would you have had a life raft if you
had bailed out?
SOWLE: No, just in the water.
NELSON: This goes into the approximate
number of casualties, how they would have
occurred and how they were treated
SOWLE: Well, our casualties were usually
they went down with the plane. We lost maybe
in the squadron of 86 pilots, we lost maybe
seven over the period of about 13 to 15 months.
NELSON: Now of this seven planes there were
two men crews?
SOWLE: Yes, 7 planes and 14 crew members.
Our squadron was 36 in number. We had 36
pilots and we lost 13 of them.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change as
combat continued?
SOWLE: No. Not then it didn’t. But to
continue this saga, I came back in November of
’44 and was married then went down to
____?____ and was acting as an instructor down
there with the rescue TC, the new dive bomber
they had developed. I was down there just six
months and then the sent me back overseas. I
�John T. Sowle—6
was in the Philippines for three months. I
developed hemorrhoids to the point that they
were going to send me home to have surgery.
But by the time I got home on the ship the
hemorrhoids disappeared and I never had any
trouble since then.
NELSON: What did you think of the war so
far?
SOWLE: As I said, I thought that it was a
tremendous experience one you couldn’t buy.
It was fortunate you came out alive. You met a
lot of good people and I never was really
____?____time. After hemorrhoids, I had about
enough of it.
NELSON: Did you write many letters home?
SOWLE: Yes, I wrote quite frequently.
NELSON: Did you save letters?
SOWLE: Yes. One incident that was kind of
different. Ronald Colman, the actor, was in a
show and he interviewed servicemen overseas.
He had a telephone hook-up and I was
scheduled to be on that program and I was to
talk to my fiancee. At the time she was at the
telephone at home with her parents awaiting the
call. For some reason it never got through.
NELSON: Did most of the other men write
overseas letters?
SOWLE: I think so, yes. That was an important
part in the service. We were involved in the
thick of it in the islands down there. We didn’t
have any contact with civilians we had rest
leave two rest leaves at ten days a piece in
Sydney, Australia. Of course, that was a
welcome relief.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of
friendship with many or some of your combat
companions?
SOWLE: Yes, I am still in contact with one
recently passed away. There were four or five in
the squadron. We never had an organized
reunion. It was an individual thing because our
units were rather small. Our squadron, of
course, was only 36 pilots and so we didn’t have
large groups. But I kept in contact with four of
them now and as I said one has recently passed
away. I lost track of others but two of them I
still correspond with.
NELSON: Did you have any contact with
captured or army prisoners?
SOWLE: No.
NELSON: What was the highlight occurrence
of you combat experience or any other
experiences that you can remember besides the
ditching?
SOWLE: I will tell you one thing. When I was
picked up by a PT boat I was taken to the
hospital in Bougainville. Who should come in
but a very good friend of mine by the name of
Chuck Cross, a Rockford native. Chuck was a
spotter for the artillery and he is now a G-5 as I
recall. He flew around Bougainville and spotted
for the artillery and kept in the area navy
spotter. The first night I came in I wasn’t in
any kind of bad shape, maybe something from
exhaustion so they automatically kept me over
night. So he visited me. The next morning he
went out on a mission and was shot down. He
was shot down and if you know anything about
jungles, Bougainville was real ____?_____, He
was shot down in an area that is about 15 miles
from where we had the lines. I found this out
later, that when they crossed he was seriously
hurt. However, his observer who was with him
built him a lean-to and left him there and then
went for help. The navy observer was found
about six weeks later in a local garden. He had
passed out from exhaustion. So that he’d
been in the jungle more than two weeks. I don’t
remember the time, but he had an awful time
getting back. Of course, he couldn’t retrace his
steps and he had no idea where he left Chuck
Cross. I came back here to get married. I had a
cold and my mother said that I should go down
to the Nelson Hotel as they had a masseuse
�John T. Sowle—7
down there. I was to go down and get a steam
bath and try to get rid of the cold. I was telling
the masseuse about military life as he was
interested in what I was doing. When I told him
about Chuck Cross, he excused himself. He
returned with Chuck’s military belongings and
pleaded with me to go see Chuck’s mother and
tell her what had happened. It was probably the
toughest thing I ever did in my life.
Emotionally, I wasn’t set for it but I did it. I’ll
never forget that as long as I live. She, of
course, was appreciative but was still broken up
over it herself. Still I think she thought there
might be some way he’d be OK. That was really
a strange experience.
NELSON: Tell me what you and other
servicemen did to celebrate America’s
traditional holidays such as Thanksgiving and
Christmas.
SOWLE: Well, I think — I can’t recall what we
did very much. Nothing impressed me that I
remember as any kind of celebration on those
holidays when we were away. Of course, in the
jungle in the South Pacific it wasn’t really like
Christmas or Thanksgiving. The food was not as
good as anywhere else. I do remember that they
had Bob Hope and Jack Benny on the island. It
was really a welcome relief and I thought Bob
Hope did a splendid job. I was a little upset with
Benny because he had a beautiful woman with
him and he was kind of — he was a little liberal
about sex in his program. I’m thinking of all
these marines stuck on this island and you
know, I didn’t really appreciate that. I remember
Bob Hope and Connie Lange and others really
had a great show.
NELSON: When and how did you return to
America?
SOWLE: I came back on a boat from the
Philippines, landed in San Diego and discharged
there. I was to take a troop train back to Chicago
that night and then to return and I did. I was in
charge of a car of the troops going to Chicago
and then come right back to be discharged. I
didn’t have to do that and I was discharged. It
would have been tough to go home and then
have to go back.
NELSON: Please tell us about you military
rank and your decorations, especially your
combat decorations.
SOWLE: I was finished as a 2nd Lieutenant in
the Marine Corps. We had a presidential
citation, of course. Had a — can’t remember, I
think — I know that I had four ribbons and I
don’t
NELSON: How many missions were you in?
SOWLE: I was in 39 missions and a lot of them
in the Solomons and probably 15 the
____?____.
NELSON: In these missions did you run into
any contact with planes or flack or any of that?
SOWLE: No. We had anti-aircraft covering the
thing and zeros were there for the first 6 weeks.
We disposed of all the airfields and then it was
strictly bombing the aircraft, anti-aircraft and
shipping that was using [LaBau] Harbor. In the
Philippines we were with the Fifth Army and
were bombing isolated pockets of Japanese that
were still in the Philippines.
NELSON: How did you get along with the men
with whom you came in contact?
SOWLE: Fine. As I recall we were a real close
group and we had only one or two fellows that
didn’t fit in but the most part, there were 36
pilots and we were all living in tents. Maybe
there was six men in a tent so it was pretty close
contact. You had to get along.
NELSON: What was the most difficult thing
you had to do in your military career
experience?
SOWLE: Probably talking with Mrs. Cross
about her son Chuck.
NELSON: Does any one thing stand out as
being the most successful achievement in the
�John T. Sowle—8
military service? How about when you got your
wings? Was that a memorable time?
SOWLE: That was a memorable time. It started
in October and went on to the next August.
There were ups and downs, good times and bad
times. When we had a bad flight because we
checked flights with every plane every two
weeks. So we had some stress. When it was all
over we were pretty much relieved.
NELSON: But as a young fellow from
Rockford, that was a pretty big deal?
NELSON: I don’t imagine the Japs would have
taken any prisoners?
SOWLE: No.
NELSON: Has your opinion changed over the
last fifty years?
SOWLE: No, I don’t think so. I’m quite
patriotic and I had a lot of difficulty right after
the war. I was watching a parade and hearing
military bands and it was quite an emotional
stress. I couldn’t handle that for a long time.
SOWLE: Yes, it was quite a presentation.
NELSON: How did you learn about VE Day
and what was your reaction?
NELSON: Do you have any disabilities or a
military pension?
SOWLE: No.
SOWLE: VE Day we were in the Philippines
and we were pretty much isolated. There was
only one squadron as I say. We were with the
Fifth Army and, of course, there was a
celebration. We did have alcohol that was
available at time somewhat.
NELSON: How did you learn about VJ Day
and what was your reaction.
SOWLE: I was on my way home aboard a
hospital ship. As you can well imagine, it was a
very happy time quite a celebration.
NELSON: Do you have any feelings or opinion
of the military status or its policy?
SOWLE: No, I’m certainly convinced we have
to maintain strength in the military as a deterrent
for any type of action against us. I hope that
people in charge maintain the level of the
military.
NELSON: Do you have any contact with the
Veterans’ Administration?
SOWLE: No I don’t other than my insurance.
NELSON: What is your opinion of the use of
the atomic bomb where it was used against
civilians and others in Japan?
SOWLE: I was very thankful that Truman did
that because I know what would have happened
if we had flown and engaged Japan. Our mission
with the Fifth Army was — we were looking
ahead and from what I could learn we were
going to be aboard aircraft carriers and would
have to go up and engage with Japan. The Fifth
Army would lead and secure the fields. After we
got through flying and bombing we were to land
on their airfields. That probably would have
been the worst possible thing that could possibly
happen.
NELSON: Would you like to tell us of how
your family supported you during your military
life?
SOWLE: They were very supportive. My father
being an ex-military man was quite proud of me,
as they all were. I got quite a bit of mail and
occasionally a box from home. I always felt they
were real supportive.
NELSON: How does your father fit into this
war effort?
SOWLE: He was very proud of me, I know. He
was rather ill at the time but he still is a military
man from the word go.
�John T. Sowle—9
NELSON: You mean as an instructor?
Would you like to add to this interview?
SOWLE: No, he was a volunteer. There is a
plaque at East High School honoring his ROTC
efforts.
SOWLE: There’s not a thing. I think you’re
doing a great job.
NELSON: I enjoy it.
NELSON: I see. What has this support meant to
you?
SOWLE: My children have been interested in
what they were doing I guess. They asked me
many times about my experience. I have kept
interested in flying. They’ve been very
interested in what went on during the war.
NELSON: Every once in a while I’ll ask in an
interview if there is something else to be added.
SOWLE: I felt that I probably was not going in
the right direction by not going back to school
— just spending money. But I’ve always been
impressed with discipline and I think the Air
Corps did a lot for me in shaping my future. I
also give credit to my Dad for that.
NELSON: Well, John I enjoyed this interview.
Thank you very much.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
John T. Sowle
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
John T. Sowle
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
June 5, 1996
Description
An account of the resource
Born 1920 , John T. Sowle joined the Marines as a pilot from 1942 to 1944. He died November 20, 2005.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
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PDF Text
Text
Jud DalmadgePage 1
Jud Dalmadge
Transcribed by Elaine Carlson For
Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 397 - 9112
�Jud DalmadgePage 2
Jud Dalmadge
Hello. Today is January 12, 1994. My name is
Charles Nelson. I am a volunteer with the Midway Village and Museum Center which is cooperating with the statewide effort to collect oral
histories from Illinois citizens who participated
in the momentous events surrounding World
War II. We are in the office of Midway Village
and Museum Center Village interviewing Mr.
Judson Dalmadge who lives at 4893 Braewild
Road, Rockford, Illinois. Mr. Dalmadge served
in a branch of the United States Armed Forces
during World War II. We are interviewing him
about his experiences in that war. Jud, would
you please start by introducing yourself to us?
DALMADGE: I am Jud Dalmadge and I am
now living in Rockford and I am now retired. At
one time I was in the United States Naval Air
Force and I am being interviewed and discussing
some of the events before World War II and
during the war.
NELSON: Please give us you full name, place
and date of birth.
DALMADGE: My name is Judson Bernard
Dalmadge. I was born in Watertown, New York,
on July 11, 1923.
NELSON: And the name of your parents.
DALMADGE: My Parents are Irvin Dalmadge
and Florence Dalmadge.
NELSON: Did you have any brothers or sisters?
DALMADGE: I had 11 brothers and sisters.
NELSON: Are there any details about you
and/or your family that you would like to give?
DALMADGE: No, other than we were a regular family at that time, sort of struggling as I
remember, mostly in the depression time. We
lived outside of the city of Watertown about 9
miles and my father got this so he could have a
big garden so we could supply food for the family.
NELSON: Good. What was life like for you
before the war and especially during 1941?
DALMADGE: Well, before the war as I explained, we lived out in the country. We had no
electricity or running water. Toilet facilities
were outside the home. It was sort of primitive,
as we know it today. In 1941 I had just graduated from high school and I had to wait until I was
18 and I entered into a
NELSON: What thoughts did you have about
the war before the United States became directly
involved in the conflict?
DALMADGE: Well, as you know, we were all
aware of what was happening in Europe. The
people I grew up with felt we were eventually
going to have to join into the fighting because it
didn’t look like anything that Hitler was doing
eventually had to be taken care of us by entering
the war.
NELSON: How did you hear of the December
7th, 1941, of the bombing of Pearl Harbor by the
Japanese. If so, where were you at the time and
what were you doing and what was your reaction and the response of those around you?
DALMADGE: Well, my brother and my brother-in-law and sister had been deer hunting up in
the Adirondack Mountains and we got home to
our home about 10:30 in the evening and we had
the radio on. Put the radio on and we heard the
announcement of the bombing. We couldn’t
believe it. We didn’t believe it. It kept repeating
itself, repeating itself. We so we felt something
did happen but we weren’t quite sure, so it was
really a surprise to us that something like this
was happening because we had been away for
the weekend deer hunting.
�Jud DalmadgePage 3
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or
developed any feeling about what had been taking place in Europe or Asia?
DALMADGE: Well, to repeat what I said. , I
had an opinion that nothing was going to stop
Hitler short of us getting into the war. I did not
think too much about the Japanese at that time
because I was not aware of some of the conditions that were transpiring that the Japanese was
not a big factor at that time.
NELSON: Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
DALMADGE: Yes, continued transgressions of
Hitler and all his takings, yes, I do recall very
vividly that we read about this on a daily basis.
NELSON: You had knowledge of his speeches,
his ideas and his actions?
DALMADGE: Yes, definitely.
NELSON: What events led to your entering the
military service? Were you already in service,
drafted or did you volunteer?
DALMADGE: No. My brother and I he was 2
years older than I was. We were supporting the
family at that time and we decided right away
that one of us would have to stay and one of us
would have to go or would, go. We were both
working at New York Air Brakes (?). We were
started making ammunition, if you want to call
it, and we were working 7 days a week, but we
both knew that one of us would go and one of us
would stay. So we flipped a coin and he won.
Prior to that he had taken his test for the Army
Air Corps. I had taken mine for the Navy Air
Corps and at that time they didn’t give anything
for dependents as a cadet and so that was why
we decided that one would have to go and one
would have to stay. So with him winning the
toss, he went into the service. I was supposed to
stay home, which I sometimes regret in a sense
as I went against what we decided to do. I went
against what our agreement was.
NELSON: Basic training when and where were
you inducted?
DALMADGE: I was inducted at Albany, New
York when I finally decided that Watertown is
Fort Drum now, was always a camp since World
War I and they have about 30,000 or 40,000
troops there at all times and Watertown is
roughly 30,000 population. It got so you
couldn’t go down the street or go out on a date
without being called a 4F. So eventually I decided with the last 2 or 3 people I hung around
with they decided to go in the service. I had
already been in the category 5A. I was supposed
to after women and children because I had 5
dependents, 5 brothers and sisters. Anyway, I
did go in. From my understanding my mother
and father thought they were holding me back
and so she gave me permission, or she agreed
that maybe I should go in the Navy. So I went in
the Navy and . . .
NELSON: I am going to ask you the next 4
questions. You can answer them in own. How
old were you? What happened after you were
inducted? Where were you sent? Where did you
take your basic training?
DALMADGE: I was 19 years old. I was inducted at Albany, New York and I took my
training at Samson Navy Base that Samson,
New York. From there, which was a period of
about 12 weeks, for boot camp. Because I
wanted to get in the Navy Air Corps and eventually become a pilot or thought I would be, I had
to take either Aviation “Mech.”, a machinist’s
mate that is, or Aviation Ordinance, or Aviation
Radio, which I selected. Aviation mechanics and
I was sent to Norman, Oklahoma, for schooling
which was a 6-month deal.
NELSON: What did you think of that training?
DALMADGE: I thought it was very good. Of
course, I had been an apprentice toolmaker before I went in and so I was somewhat mechanically inclined and the regiment in this type of
thing did not give me any problems that I remember.
NELSON: Okay. Did anything special happen
there? Tell us about any other training camps
�Jud DalmadgePage 4
you attended. Did you have any leaves or passes? If so, how did you use them?
DALMADGE: Well, mostly after a period of
time, probably 3 or 4 weeks before they would
give us any liberty and they would give us liberty for 1 or 2 days on a weekend with I think
about a 50 mile radius that we could travel in.
Most of the time, I happened to meet up with a
fellow from near my hometown and we would
hang out together with and we used to play golf
and play tennis together at the University of
Oklahoma, which was just outside our gates.
Most of the time, we were in that area. As far as
anything unusual, I don’t recall any particular
thing. From there we went to, also because at
that time we decided I was going to become a
gunner, I had to take Radar which was at the
same place in Norman. Then I went to Purcell,
Oklahoma, for a period of 5 weeks of gunnery
school. And from there I went to Fort Lauderdale, Florida, for operational training which was
partly schooling and partly flying.
NELSON: Okay. I think you have answered
what your assigned duties were in the military
unit. What was your participation in the conflict? Where did you after completing your basic
training and I would like to know the group you
were with and the squadron and so on and so
forth: And the area you were in.
DALMADGE: From Fort Lauderdale we went
up to Seattle, Washington. We were in a [cashew] outfit which was a group, you may say, of
different classifications. You were just waiting
to be reassigned as they so desired. At that time,
Air Group 9 had just returned from overseas and
was on the Essex Aircraft Carrier and they were
regrouping and so this was where we got assigned to that group. And so, Air Group 9, I was
in the Torpedo Squadron 9, which was made up
roughly of 16 torpedo planes along with part of
the Air Group. When we went to Pasco, Washington, which was near Walla Walla, Washington, we trained out of there, flew out of there on
a daily basis usually and we went to up to
Whidbey Island for our torpedo practice and
went down to San Diego to practice carrier
landings. Went to Salton Sea, which is in California for rocket runs and operation. So we were
up and down the coast for a period of probably
of 6 months. At that time we were sent over to
Hawaii.
NELSON: This was on your way to overseas?
DALMADGE: This was overseas. From there
we went to overseas. The first place we landed
was Hawaii and we stayed there for approximately 2 months and we were sent down to a
small little island down off of __?__. It was just
large enoughit was a coral reef that was made
over by the CBs, and we stayed there about a
month for just training and to get time on every
aircraft. We were supposed to get 50 hours before we went aboard ship. From there, in January 1945, we went and hit the fleet at __?__
Ulysses and that was when we met the huge fleet
of everythingcarriers and this type. At that
time we went aboard the USS Lexington, which
ended up to be preparation for the first time that
the Navy Air Force was to hit Tokyo as a major
operation. There were something like a thousand
planes in that operation. We only stayed about
six weeks aboard the Lexington. During that
time we also covered operations for landing on
Iwo Jima and after that operation we transferred
to the USS Yorktown and went back to the
States. So from that point on we just kept from
the Yorktown we just kept hitting Okinawa basically and the mainland
NELSON: Can I interrupt for a minute? Can
you tell me the type of airplaneThis is not the
question, but I think it should be in here. What
type of airplane and what your job was on this
airplane that you were assigned to?
DALMADGE: Yes. This was a Grumman torpedo plane. They called it the TBF. It’s a torpedo bomber. “F” means for Grumman, the manufacture. It’s a 3-place, 3-man planethe pilot,
the radioman and a gunner. The gunner was on
the turret. That was my location. The gunner
was down in the bilge and so I had 50-caliber
machine gun and the radioman had a small 30
caliber and basically my role was to keep track
of where other planes were and also as a gunner
be aware of the enemy at least.
�Jud DalmadgePage 5
NELSON: At this point, what did you think of
our nation’s war efforts and your feelings on it?
NELSON: Okay. How about casualties? How
did they occur and how were they treated?
DALMADGE: Well, we just happened to hit
the operations or combat at its good time. The
Japanese had been beaten pretty well, even
though they were hittingstill had a lot of Kamikazes, which was probably our biggest fear,
but basically, we could fly almost anywhere any
time without seeing too many enemy aircraft.
The big serious threat at that time was the kamikazes which I think at one time practically
every large carrier and small carrier was hit at
least once, which we all went through. It was a
time when Kamikazes and Japanese knowing
they were fairly well beaten. I hit the fleet at a
good time as far as that goes.
DALMADGE: Well, as I said, we lost 2 crews
on Iwo. One was, I thought was pilot error.
What happened, when we were aboard the Lexington, each ship had its own way of determining what planes we were going to fly in. Well,
the Lexington, we were assigned to a particular
aircraft and it happened to be, they were going
to try a new pilot to lead the group. His plane
was the last plane to take off so everybody else
had joined in and he came rushing up to become
the lead man. I witnessed this from the flight
desk and what happened was he rushed up to get
the lead and when he did, he must have pulled
back the stick, of the throttle, and he actually
went into a wing tip stall, trying to get in location. He went into the water. That’s the first time
I ever saw a TBF explode because we didn’t
carry that much fuel to explode like some of the
bigger planes. So that was my firstand so
those bodies two of them were recovered by a
destroyer butthey did the memorial service
right aboard the destroyer and they were destined to the sea. In other words they were buried
at sea.
NELSON: Can you list for us in order of occurrence all subsequent combat action in which you
were involved?
DALMADGE: Well, the first was when the
Fleet hit Tokyo. We were on 2 missions there.
We hit a small aircraft plant, making aircraft, I
should say, about 70 miles north of Tokyo and
of course the B29s later on said that all we did
was break the windows. We dropped like 100
pounders and we reloaded with 2000 pounders,
but we didn’t get back there because we ran into
a snowstorm and the whole operation was cancelled. From there we sort of, we came back and
we hit Iwo and we covered the invasion of Iwo
Jima. From the air it didn’t' look like much was
happening down there. We dropped “Daisy cutters” which was an anti-personnel, which was
opposite Mount Suribachi. As I recall it was
because we were like number 2 man in and all
we seen was a fantastic amount of dust and debris because we went down to probably 50 feet
from the ground and those anti-personnel bombs
were throwing up the dirt. What we found out
later was just from the volcanic ash. We did very
little damage as I recall from what we heard
later. Anyway we stayed on station there, as I
recall, for roughly a week. We lost 2 planes in
that particular time, not so much from enemy
action but through neglect of flying or whatever
you want to call it. I do recall that.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change as
combat continued?
DALMADGE: Well, it’s a funny thing. When
you see the people you’ve been with for a couple
years, training and stuff and losing them now
and then. The thing I recall we sort of joked
about it. If something is going to happen, it’s
going to happen. I didn’t think and I don’t think
anybody thought too much about it, whether you
were going to make it or not. We just sort of
made it a joke type thing before you went off,
you’d talk to your fellow flyers and say, “Well,
if you go down can I have your dungarees?” and
this type of thing. It was sort of a joke in that
way. You see in the Navy, what people don’t
understand about the Navy, if you volunteered to
fly in the Navy, as far as crewmen goes, you
could quit any time and this was hard for some
of the Air Force people to believe, but that’s
true. And we had, after the first hope after Tokyo, we had about 6 crewmembers that quit and
they were flown back after the operation to one
�Jud DalmadgePage 6
of the islands. The skipper came in at that time
and suggested that even though he knew we
could quit any time, he suggested, that to stop
this situation, he made a statement. Anyone else
who wanted to quit, he would guarantee them at
least 2 years on the worst island out there. So,
knowing some of the stuff, the galloping crud
and all that stuff on some of these islands it sort
of stopped our thinking of ever wanting to quit.
Charles Nelson stopped the tape at this point
and began again.
NELSON: Did you write many letters home and
did you receive many letters or packages? If so,
how often? What type of things did you like to
get in packets?
DALMADGE: Yes, I remember writing. I
probably wrote every week or so. This is funny,
before I went my last leave before I went overseas, I had a deal with my mother that, because I
found out we couldn’t even tell anybody we
were in the Pacific. We had a deal that the last
paragraph to let her know where I was. We
hadI set up a little code that I would ask for
one of my particular brothers and that would
mean I was either Hawaii or Japan. I had a little
code I used to do that but the funny part of it is,
when I got home after the war, I found that she
didn’t even remember we had that so all was for
naught. She never did know where I was. Anyhow, I thought that was funny. Now days you
wonderyou know exactly where everybody is.
We just couldn’t even tell them we were in the
Pacific. That is how things have changed. Yes, I
wrote and I received it. The destroyer used to
come along side, probably once every 2 weeks
or so on, whatever, and they would bring the
mail. That was a big thing about the carrier.
Everybody used to go down and watch them
when they transferred the mail over. So it was
quite an occasion, something to look forward to.
As far as packages, I remember getting packages
but most of the time it was cookies or something
like that. But by the time it got to us, it was just
a pile of crumbs and the mail bag thing was full
of crumbs. So nothing really came as they were
sent.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of
friendships with many or some of you combat
companions?
DALMADGE: Oh, yes. I still have friends and
we still get together. We still correspond. I continued every few years to go to reunions and this
type of thing. I would say probably that I had 4
real good close friends that we continually were
very, very close in our friendship.
NELSON: Some of these questions may not
pertain to you. I will read them. I think this is
more about people out in the field. Did you ever
help retrieve a wounded buddy from a field of
combat? Answer yes or no.
DALMADGE: No.
NELSON: During your combat duty did you
ever capture any prisoners. If so, please describe
the circumstances.
DALMADGE: No.
NELSON: Prior to the end of the war, were you
aware that any civilian concentration camps
existed? If so, please explain how you learned
about them and how much you knew at the time.
DALMADGE: I didn’t know an awful lot about
them and I didn’t really know about them. Being
in the Navy I think you’re away from that type
of thing. But I will say this, that it was a real
thorn in my side at the time. One of the kamikaze planes was shot down and the pilot survived.
We were aboard the Yorktown at the time. The
admiral was aboard our ship. They brought him
aboard the ship and they interviewed him and so
forth. Our personnel officer of our squadron
used to be the head registrar of Union College
and he was a greatI don’t know what you’d
call him, but he caused a lot of problems with
me, mainly because he was a great Samaritan.
He came in said to try to write a letter home
every month and let our parents know where we
were, or what we were doing and he wrote and
said the Japanese prisoner he wanted to come
back to America. Getting back to this story of
the Japanese Kamikaze pilot and so he was
writing this home to my mother and saying that
�Jud DalmadgePage 7
his favorite dish was ice cream and all these
great things about what he was doing and what
he wanted to do and how he liked Americaand
would have liked to be in America.. It didn’t sit
with me because my brotherI had just been
notified my brother had been killed in a B24
over in Europe. I explained to him that I didn’t
want this sent to my mother because she thought
I was up there trying to win a war. This caused
an awful lot of problems with him and I. He
became very indignant and never did treat me
the same afterward but that’s the way I felt. So I
was aware of at least one prisoner of war, and
that was the nearest I ever got to it.
without Jato so it was sort of a good experience
and we stayed aboard for like 4 days a seaplane
tender before brought us back to a ship off Okinawa.
NELSON: You can answer this with yes or no.
Did you help liberate any enemy prison camps
or concentration camps? If so, which ones?
Please describe them especially what conditions
you found in the camp.
DALMADGE: Well, weone Thanksgiving
when we were in Fort Lauderdale was very funny in a way when I think about it now. After we
had the traditional turkey and all that, they suggested if we wanted anything because they had
an awful lot of turkey left over that we could
take whatever we wanted. So I took a tremendous large big drumstick and took it back and
put it in my locker and proceeded to go on liberty. All day and all night long I kept thinking
this drumstick was going to be nice to come
back to. And so, in those days they had curfew.
The lights went out in the barracks at 10 o’clock.
We got back a little after that and I went in and
opened the locker. Of course, the lights were off
and I proceeded to take one great big bite out of
this turkey leg and my mouth exploded. Not
knowing what it was, I ran into the head and
here it was, just thousands and thousands of just
big red ants. So I spit for needless to say hours.
And then the next time we were in Hawaii and
as far as I know like Thanksgiving we always
had our turkey and this type of thing. Then at
Christmas time down in this island of [Konan]It’s a little island, we had rations of 2
cokes or 2 beers a day and we had a ration card
and everything. I don’t recall really what we had
at that time. It was a little bit less far as having
any problems with eating and that sort of thing. I
can really say
DALMADGE: No, I did not.
NELSON: What was the high light occurrence
of you combat experience?
DALMADGE: Well, I guess probably being
shot down. We were dropping bombs that had 1
hour to 24 hours on an air field on a small island
between Taiwan and Okinawa where the kamikaze were coming. We were trying to upset the
runways and we happened to hit it during a
thunderstorm if you want to call it. There was
about a 200 or 300-foot ceiling and so we had to
hit going at roughly 250 knots in the process and
about 50 feet off the ground. Our plane got hit in
the engine by small fire or 20mm we think.. We
had to abandon the ship shortly after off the
coast. The seas were about 20 feet. So probably
that was a high light. We did get picked up. We
went about 7 o’clock in the morning and got
picked up just before dusk in the afternoon.
Originally we could see the Japanese when we
first went down trying to get at us. Coming out
in a boat for us, but we had fighter cover all day
long. Every 24 hours or so they would change so
they would attack whatever was coming put
after us. Anyway, we got picked up by a PBM, a
Navy PBM, and it had Jato on it which is an
assist take off. They said that they would never
be able to take off in those waves or that sea
NELSON: This isn’t one of the regular questions. Was anybody injured?
DALMADGE: My radioman broke his ankle.
Other than that, no.
NELSON: Tell us what you and the other men
did to celebrate America’s traditional family
holidays such as Thanksgiving and Christmas?
NELSON: You had plenty?
DALMADGE: Yes, compared to what other
people had, we were well off.
�Jud DalmadgePage 8
NELSON: When and how did you return to the
United States after the end of the war?
DALMADGE: We came home in July of ’45. I
was home on leave when the war ended and so
Iit was 4 days before I had to get back. I was
destined to go to a refresher gunnery school.
From Oklahoma I was supposed to go down
there. But I was home on leave when the war
ended and so anyhow, naturally we celebrated
because I was home at the time.
NELSON: Please tell us about you military rank
and your decorations especially your campaign
ribbons.
DALMADGE: Well, I guess, first of all I had
the Flying Cross, 3 Air Medals, I believe. And
then I guess there’s several Presidential Unit
Citation things. I don’t really know other than
that. But that’s the only one individually awards
that I know I have.
NELSON: What was your rank?
DALMADGE: I was Aviation Machinist Mate,
Second Class.
NELSON: How many campaigns were you in?
DALMADGE: Well, I really don’t know how
they determine but Iwo, the invasion of Iwo
could be considered one and Okinawa. Okinawa
was probably our biggest. We probably had 30
to 35 missions over Okinawa. For several reasons, some of the missions were to land. I
should say, Okinawa was our biggestprobably
we spent 30 to 35 at Okinawa. Some of the missions were just to drop supplies. It rained so bad
they couldn’t get supplies so we would land and
put everything on parachutes and fly over with
our wheels down and drop them. We would
always get hit with the small arms fire but I
guess you would say that was the first I mean
those were the two main operationswould be
Iwo but I don’t know how the services or how
the Navy determines which is an operation.
DALMADGE: I got along great with them as
far as I knew. If I knew I was going to come
back I would had had a hell of a good time, as it
was I had a good time.
NELSON: Are there things you would do differently if you could do them once again?
DALMADGE: Well probably, but I don’t know
what they would be off hand.
NELSON: What was the most difficult thing
you had to do during your period of military
service?
DALMADGE: I guess probably several times
when we were on missions that got a little scary.
I guess that would probably be considered the
ones I had concerns about the most. But, actually, yes, I think that probably some of the missions we were on that probably was concerning
the worst situations, but I think you sort of got
used to it and you didn’t take them quite as I
won’t say serious but you didn’t get too concerned with it. I really don’t know, of course, a
lot of things could be saida lot of things you
didn’t like and you would wish you were somewhere else. At the time and under the circumstances, I really don’t know what I considered
the most difficult.
NELSON: Okay. Is there anyone thing that
stands out as you most successful achievement
in the military service?
DALMADGE: Well, I think being just being
party to a group of guys that were pretty well
dedicated and looking back and saying we did
what we could do and what we were supposed to
do and I think I did it pretty well. I think that to
me what I considered a good thing, I think and
what I considered a good American and what I
was supposed to do as an America and for my
country. I guess at the time. I think that was
NELSON: You did your job and did it well.
NELSON: Now, this is a return to civilian life.
How did you get along with the men with whom
you had the greatest contact?
DALMADGE: Yes. I think I did it was well as
anybody could do it and so I felt,yes. I did
what I should have done.
�Jud DalmadgePage 9
NELSON: Okay. How did you learn about VE
Day and what was your reaction to it?
DALMADGE: VE Day, we were flying and we
got it over the intercomover the radio and they
announced it that VE Day and we were very
happy. We knew we were going to win and that
was another indication that, yes, we were going
to win this thing.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the use of
the Atomic Bomb when it was used against
Japanese civilians in August of 1945?
DALMADGE: I loved it. I loved it. I thought it
was the greatest thing that ever could happen.
When we left the fleet in July they were preparing for the next operation. It was going to be
landing on the mainland and we had to leave all
our equipment, flying equipment and stuff we
had to available to our squadron knowing that
they were going to have to use it. We also knew
what they projected for the casualties so I was
very pleased. Happy.
NELSON: Has your opinion changed in the last
50 years? If so, how?
DALMADGE: No, It has not changed. I’ve
heard all these people and all the people who
made their comments on how bad it was. But to
me being there, the situation has not changed on
iota.
NELSON: When and where were you officially
discharged from the service?
DALMADGE: In New Yorkoutside of New
York City, September, 1945. The Navy had a
deal. If you had a DFC or above, you didn’t
have to wait for points and all that. Of course, in
my case I had a lot of points because I had a lot
of dependents, so we were out hardly before the
shouting was over.
NELSON: Do you have a disability rating or
pension?
DALMADGE: No.
NELSON: Do you have any opinions or feelings about our national military status or its policies?
DALMADGE: Not really. Not really.
NELSON: Do you have any contact with the
Veterans’ Administration?
DALMADGE: I use to have it. I had a lot of
trouble with my ears from flying but after about
10 years of fighting with them, I gave up.
NELSON: You’ve answered the next question.
Have you ever gone to a VA Hospital or Medical Service?
DALMADGE: I have never gone to the hospital
but originally, right after the war, if you had
anything at all, they would make sure it was
taken care of. After a year or two they forgot
about that situation andI had a situation with
my ear drum that had been taken out of place
due to some altitude flying and dive bombing, so
that has always been a problem with mine. But
after about 10 years, they refused to do anything
about it. I gave up. I’m not happy with the way
they treated it, but that’s the way it goes.
NELSON: Would you like to tell us about your
family support during your military life.
DALMADGE: Yes. There were 5 of us in the
service, 5 brothers during that time. Some got in
at the tail end but there were 4 of us in practically 3 years or so and the youngest brother, he
went in at the beginning of 1945. We were pretty well involved with it. The whole familymy
sisters used to write and my mother. So we were
pretty much of a family tied up with this war.
NELSON: Okay. Over subsequent years what
has this support meant to you?
DALMADGE: Oh, well, it was what I expected. It was what America used to be at one
time. You supported people who were in the
military and supported the wars the government
got involved in. Whether they were good or bad
or what. That’s the way we were brought
upthe way I was brought up.
�Jud DalmadgePage 10
This appears to be the end of the interview.
There is no “sign off.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Judson Dalmadge
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Judson Dalmadge
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
January 12, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born July 12, 1923, Judson Dalmadge became a Naval Air Force Gunner.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
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PDF Text
Text
Kaare
Nevdal-Page I
ll
KAAßf,NflVDAI
)
þ
Lorraine Lightcap
Edited by Margaret Lofgren
Transcribed
Midway Village andMuseum Center
6799 GuilfordRoad
U
Rocldord" Illinois
Phone 815 397
9ll2
{¿"
��Kaare
Nevdal--Page?
K.&&Rü IIESD.EIL
This is Jtfly,27e 1994. My name is Charles Nelson. I
am a volunteer with Midway Village in Rocldord, Illinois, which is cooperating with a statewide effort to
collect oral histories from Illinois citizens that participated in the momentous events snrrounding World
War IL We are in the office of the Midway Village in
Rocldord Illinois, interviewing Mr. Kaare Nevdal.
Mr Nevdal served with the Royal Norwegian Air
Force attached to the British Royal Air Force in lceland and England during World War II. We are interviewing him about his e4periences in that war.
NELSON: Kaare, would you please start this interview by infroducing yourself and how you come to
be involved in the Air Force during World War II?
NEVDAL: Okay, Chucþ as you know I was born in
Norway. I was born October 9th, 1920. I lived in a
small town in a suburb of Bergen on the west coast of
Norway. On Oclober the 9e, 1940, the Nazis invaded
Norway and I was there when that happened. I lived
under the occupation for almost a year. The Norwegari king and the government had fled earlier to
England and est¿blished a government in England in
exile. They also established an Ai¡ Force, Navy and
Army. I w¿s forhrnate enough to get together with
some other gûys-twenty
of
us---and we escaped
across the North Sea to Shetland Islands and from
there we went down to London and got inducted into
the various services. I wanted to be in the Air Force
and I applied for that. They took me in. They sent me
to Toronto, Canada, where the Norwegian government had established a training camp. So I went to
Toronto, Canada, the same year-it was in March of
l94l---¿nd was training there and became a radio
gunner. That means I was trained to be a radio officer
or radio man on the airplane and also a gunner. From
there I went somewhere in 1942, I went back overseas to England first and then they sent me to a
coast¿l command squaùon in Iceland; That's where I
first started in operation andthatwas tn1942.
NELSON: Would you give us a little lowdown on
your parents? Did you have any brothers or sisters or
any details about your parents or your family that you
would like to give?
NEVDAL: Well, my father was a retired sea captain.
He had been retired for many years. As a matter of
fact, he retired before-I can't remember him being
at sea. One memory of the thing was, when he found
out I was going to escape across the North Sea, he offered me his old se\tant which I couldn't take along
because I couldn't try to escape carrying a sextant. It
would have been obvious that I was up to something.
I had my mother there and we were five-we have
four boys and one girl.
NELSON: What was life like before the war, espe-
cially 1941?
NEVDAL: Life was fine. We had the depression
there the same time you had it in the United St¿tes
but we were coming out of it when the war started.
Of course, we tried to be neutral but then the Germans came andthings changed dramatically.
NELSON: Did you have any idea that Germany was
attempting to take over Norway before they did it?
NEVDAL: No, we had no idea. As a matter of fact
the night before they came, we knew there were some
naval movement by German ships south of Norway
but we thought they were going out to the North Sea
and do battle with the British. Instead they came up
the Oslo {ord and invaded us.
NELSON: Were there a lot
of
losses, Norwegian
losses during this time?.
NEVDAL: Yes, tlrcre were a lot of losses-a lot of
losses.
NELSON: Okay, now Ilm going to ask you something about December 7h, 1941, when Pearl Harbor
was bombed by the Japanese. What were you doing
at the time and do you remember the response of
those around you?
NEVDAL: Yes, I remember very well, Harbor Day
Harbor Da¡ I was in Toronto in the banacks
-Pearl was training.
where I
I remember my reaction
was-I
felt terrible that this had been done to the Unrted
St¿tes. At the same time I knew that in the long nrn it
would help me regaining my country because I lflew
that now the United States would get involved and
the only hope for Europe that I knew from the begnningwas United States getting involved in the war.
NELSON: It must be very depressing to see a country
come like that and tåke you country away from you.
�Kaare
NEVDAL: It was awful. The rvorst was to live there
because we had absolutely no freedom of movements. We couldn't go like from here to Belvidere
without a pâssport. So it was very difrcult and frustrating.
NELSON: Had you formed any prior opinion or developed any feeling about what was taking place in
Europe and Asia?
NEVDAL: Yes, Europe in particular.
I
was well
aware of that Hitler was trying to conquer at least all
of Europe and maybe go on from there.
Nevdal-Page
3
NEVDAL: Yes, they put me on a cargo ship in con2I days to go across the Atlantic be-
voy. It took us
cause we had to crisscross to evade the submarines.
NELSON: So you were taking a chance there too just
being on that ship...
NEVDAL: Yes, like everybody else was particularly
the sailors who had to do it all the time.
NELSON: Yah. That's true. They lost a lot of sailors,
too.
NEVDAL: Oh, yes
NELSON: You heard of Hitler's speeches and ideas.
NELSON: Where did you take your basic military
NEVDAL: Oh, of coruse. Yes. And then, of course,
the last year I was in Norway I saw the soldiers
üaining?
marching in the stleet and singing and carrying on.
NEVDAL: In Toronto.
NELSON: Now you volunteered in the service,
right:
NELSON: And you were trained to do what?
NEVDAL:Yes.
NEVDAL:Radio andgunner.
NELSON: Went up to England and volunteered. Do
NELSON: Okay. What did you think of that training?
you have any special memories of this event?
NEVDAL: Itwasvery good. Very good. Excellent.
NEVDAL: My
escape?
NELSON: Tell us about other training camps you
NELSON: When you got inducted and you went to
attended.
London, I suppose.
NEVDAL: I was at radar training camp in England to
NEVDAL:Yah.
learn to operate the radar equipment.
NELSON: Do you have any special memories of
NELSON: So you we-re
this---arything special happen.
equipment on your airplane,
NEVDAL: Well, the first thing that happened when I
NEVDAL: Yes. We got it later on---{rot in the begin-
got to London, we were interned because we had to
be cleared
had to make swe we wer€n't spies.
-{hey
lVe weren't spying for Germany. So they put us in an
institution there and I was thrown in there with people from all nafions, all colors. Being from a little
town, it was kind of scary at first but I was fortunate.
I only three days and they cleared me and I was out.
ning*åutwe got it.
NELSON: You were about 20 years old?
¿
in radar. You had radar
NELSON: Didyou have any leaves or passes?
NEVDAL: Oh,
yes.
NELSON: Now in this camp, were all you people
Norwegians or was...
NEVDAL:Yes.
NEVDAL:Yes.
NELSON: Then what happened after you were inducted? You said you were sent to England and then
NELSON: Just Nonvegians.
NEVDAL:Yes.
to Canada,
NELSON: What was your military unit? Was ttnt the
Air Force?
�Kaare
NEVDAL: Air force,
NELSON: Where did you go after you completed
I
4
NEVDAL: No.
yes.
your basic military training?
NEVDAL: First to England.
short time and then
Nevdal-Page
I was in London just a
was assigned to the Coastal
Command Squadron #330 in lceland.
NELSON: You just kept on going.
NEVDAL: Yah, There was some talk about afteryou
had been in action for eighteen monthq you could
apply to get reliwed.
NELSON: What were you assigned to do after aniv-
NELSON: I
ing?
way.
NEVDAL: To fly
as a wireless operator and gunner.
NELSON: What did you think of your nation's war
see. The
British were operating the same
NEVDAL: I don't know how they were
NELSON: They just were flying flytng and flying,
efforts up to this point? The Norwegians.
NEVDAL: Yah. Yah. There wasn't talk about numNEVDAL: Well, we were limitedbut we were doing
very well considering that we were in exile. What
made it possible for the Norwegian government to do
bers.
it
drd have casualties aboard your airplane.
was the Norwegian Merchant Marine. They were
confiscated by the government and the merchant marine which \ilas at that time the fourth largest in the
world. They were operating all over the world and
they were told to go to neutral ports or allied ports as
soon as the occupation happened. The government
took them over and the revenue that they received
during the war was used to finance the three branches
of the military.
NELSON: So they were working for a lot of different
countries delivering supplies, I suppose.
NEVDAL:Yes.
NELSON: They had a lot of losses, too, then.
NEVDAL: Oh, they had a tremendous arnount of
losses and large amounts of the oil that was transferued from the United States and the war material
was transferred on Norwegian ships.
NELSON: Tell us about your experience of entering
your first combat area.
NEVDAL: Our job in combat was mainly to
seek out
submarines and destroy them. We were given certain
territory in the Atlantic to cover. We'd be out for
12
hours sometimes, Sometimes less.
NELSON: Were there so many flights you had to
NELSON: No. Not like fhe Americans ..
NEVDAL: Oh, yah.
NELSON: Can you tell us a little bit about how they
occurred and how they were treated?
NEVDAL: Well whathappene#-I was only in combat with a submarine one time. Even though we
didn't see too many submarines, they could see us
and they would submerge as soon as they saw us.
They spotted us before we could spot them. It's easier to see an airplane than to see a little ship-a little
boat in the ocean. So when they saw us they would
submerge and just by the fact that we were there, we
slowed them down because they couldn't travel under
as fast as they could on the surface. They wanted to
be on the surface--+hey could go faster. This particular submarine that we encountered was on May
16, 1944. That was in the North Sea. This was a large
submarine. It was 1800 ton. It was a supply submarine for the other suhmarines that were out there. It
was on the way out to the Atlantic to supply others.
And I imagine since it was so large, they figured
when they saw us that they could fight us, so they
didn't submerge. They remained on the surface. As
wo went in, they startcd shooting at us. We were
diving down because we had to get down low to sink
them with our depth charges.
NELSON: What were they using to shoot you with?
make or was it based on the amount of time or how
did you know when you were through doing this.
NEVDAL: Guns. Big
NEVDAL: There was no regular ... you just
"
NELSON: 40 mm cannons
NELSON: No time schedule.
Now you
ones. Big guns.
�Kaare
NEVDAL:
I
had no idea what carurons they had.
They had cannons and they had machine guns. There
was a terrific barrage of fire at us as we came in, As a
matter of fact, as we approached and got closer we
got a real bad hit in the front turret and the front gunner lvas killed instantly. They hit him in the chest. He
was dead. We continued down and they kept shooting
at us. Finally we get down and going to release the
depth charges and they didn't release. So we had to
make a turn and come back again but
this time we
had killed most of the gunners. There was only one
gun firing when we came back
þ
Nevd¿l-Page
5
rything. Then I had to send SOS and leave our ditching position because they thought we would have to
ditch.
NELSON: Were both of these engines on one side or
was there one on either side?0
NEVDAL : One on
each side. Fortunately
NELSON: So it was balanced out.
NEVDAL: Yah, a little bit. Yah. But there wasn't
enough power to gam any height. Then wejettisoned
NELSON: You were shooting at them, too.
NEVDAL: Oh, yes. We had sixteen guns firing at
a whole bunch of gasoline and threw the guns overboard-¡hrough everything overboard that was loose.
them.
NELSON: How far were you from your home base?
NELSON: The nose gunner now was out of action.
NEVDAL: About two hours. And litfle by little we
gained a littte height.
NEVDAL: Yah. He was out of action. We had another gunner with 50 mm under the front turret. He
was shooting. We made a second turn and when we
came back we were able to drop the depth charges
and straddle them. As we left the scene we could see
we sank them. We could see they went down with the
stern first. And the angle and it was obvious we had
sunk it.
NELSON: By cutting the weight down.
NEVDAL: Yah. And \ile can get out of this position
and we managed to get back to base which was in
Shetland Islands. When we landed, we were so frrll of
holes from the bombardment that the hull. This was a
flying boat, so we had to beach it. We had to beach
the plane when we landed
NELSON: Do you think they had any survivors?
NELSON: Otherwise it would have sunk right away
NEVDAL: No. There wasn't
a chance for survivors.
NEVDAL: Yah. We made it home
NELSON: So you had tlut one casuaþ and you told
us how it happened. There was no chance of trying to
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change as com-
save him.
bat continued?
NEVDAL: No
NEVDAL: Not really. Not really
NELSON: No other casualties
at the
time?
NEVDAL: Yah. We had small wounds. I just got a
little drst. I was at the radio when this happened. My
fust job was to send a position--+end the word that
\ile went in for attack and give a position so that's
whatl did.
NELSON: So in
NELSON: What did you think of the war so far?
NEVDAL:Well
NELSON: Besides being brutal
NEVDAL: It was brutal. I don't wish anybody to be
case you needed
help-
NEVDAL: Yah. Th¿t was routine. As soon as you
went into action, tell them that you were going into
action and what is your position. Then when this was
done, one engine was out of commission. Another
one was hâltmg so we couldn't get-we were right
down on the surface almost and we couldn't gain any
height because the other engine leaking oil and eve-
in it but we were highly motivated to fight because of
the fact we had lost our country. At the time there it
looks like we never get itback.
NELSON: Could you get in contact with your family
at all.?
NEVDAL: No
�Kaare
Nevdal-Page
6
NELSON: So you couldn't get any letters or anything
like that from home.
NEVDAL; Yes. The first night we flew into Stockhokn-I'll never forget th¿t because the whole
NEVDAL: No. They didn't know if we were dead or
alive. They did know that I had reached the United
States because I was visiting Rocldord when I was
training in Toronto. I had an aunt and uncle living
here. We took a picture of my aunt and me and
in England" like you
Stockholm was lit up and
þ
I lived under the blackouts
di{ for several years. I'll
never
forget the sight of the Stockholm airport in the middle of the night as we flew in there and the whole city
was
lit
up.
mailed that
Red Cross---+ent it to Norway. She put
on it that was her son, My family ftnew, of course,
that I was their son. I had escaped and I was supposed to be dead as far as the Germans were con-
NELSON: Yes, that's true. Tell us what you and the
other men did to celebrate America's traditional fam-
cerned.
NEVDAL: We celebrated Christmas wherever we
ily holidays such as Thanksglving and Christrnas.
was like in Shetland Islands. I celebrated in lceland.
If
I
they knew that you had escaped, they
probably would have taken it out onyour family.
celebrated in London. We tried to do it in our own
way. It was sad times because we were away from
NEVDAL:Exactly
the family and we didn't even know
were still alive so it was a sad time.
NELSON:
if our family
NELSON: You were taking a chance.
NELSON: When was the first time that you actually
turned back to Norway? Was that after the war was
NEVDAL: Yah.
over.
NELSON: Have you remained in contact with any of
your World War II companions?
NEVDAL: After the war was over. We flew in rn
May of 1945.
I have. Two years ago I was at the
Squadron Reunion in Norway and met quite a few of
NELSON: That was just about when the end of the
NEVDAL: Yes,
war was.
my old friends.
NEVDAL: Yah. Just after Norway had been liberNELSON: Didn't they have a special celebrity at that
meeting, too. You say that you met the king.
ated.
NELSON: Were there still German soldiers around at
NEVDAL: I met hinr-I met the king in Toronto, He
came to Toronto to commemorate or
that time?
it was a plaque
given to the crty of Toronto from the king or a stone
as a memorial. The king came and I talked to him
NEVDAL: Yah, but they were in prison, (Laughter).
then.
taken over.
NELSON: That must have been quite an honor to
see
They were imprisoned by the Norwegians that had
NELSON:
So the
Norwegians didhave some guns
him.
NEVDAL: It was. I had met him once before. I was
on the crew that flew him from Oslo to another city ,
NEVDAL: Yah. The underground They came out
and then, of course, we got Allied Forces come in,
too, to help.
Trondheim, just after the war.
NELSON: Had to turn in all their ammunition and
NELSON: What was the highlight occurrence of your
combat experience or any other experiences that you
can remember? You've given me so many here-
NEVDAL: One of the highlights was when
I
was
supposed to be on an easier assignment when I flew
with a career plane between Scotland and Stockholm
when I again could fly over my homeland.
$urs...
NEVDAL:Yes. Yes.
NELSON: Okay. Now when you first come to the
United States, did you go to Canada and then to the
United States?
NEVDAL: You mean after the war?
NELSON: Andyou were free.
�Kaare
Nevdatr-Page7
NELSON: Yes, after the war
NELSON: I suppose tlús was constantly on your
mind too, while you were away from there what was
NEVDAL:Yes. Yes.
happening to your family.
NELSON: When did you first come to the United
NEVDAL:Yes, exactþ
States?
NEVDAL: After the war, first I got a job as a radio
offrcer with the airlines--with the Norwegian Airlines which later became the Scandinavian Airlines. I
had a good job there but the housing shortage was so
bad because of the war and then my wife, she had
come frorn-I met my wife in Toronto and we didn't
get maried there but she corresponded whüe I was in
England I asked her to come over to Norway after
the war and we'd get married. She came and we were
married in Norway in December of 1945. Then when
she get pregnant and housing shortage she had to go
back to Toronto to have the baby. She was going to
come back but afrer six months, things were going so
slow I decided to leave and so it was easier to get into
Canada than the United States so I went to Canada
and join her there. We lived there for a year and then
in 1948 ìMe came to Rocldord.
NELSON: I'd like to go back before this when your
parents were living and your family were living under the German government. How were they treated?
NEVDAL: My family, in particular, didn't suffer
any. They came--{he Gestapo came and inquired
what happened to me because they knew I had disap-
NELSON: You hadno way of knowing
NEVDAL: No, that.was very difficult.
NELSON: Retum to civilian life which we had been
talking about. How did you get along wrth the men
with whom you had the greatest contact-your crew
members?
NEVDAL: No problem. Very well. Very well.
NELSON: Were there things you would do differently if you could do them once again?
NEVDAL: No, I can't think of anything.
NELSON: What was the most difficult thing you had
to do during your military service or prior to your
military service when you got involved with the
Germans?
NEVDAL: Prior to my service? Living under the occupation. It was dificult thing was to put up with it
and I get involved in sabotage.
NELSON: You got involved in that?
peared,
NEVDAL: Yah. That was diffrcult and risþ and very
NELSON: How did they know of your existence?
rewarding.
NEVDAL: They knew I had disappeared.
NELSON: Unless you got caught.
NELSON: Yah. But how did they know you existed?
NEVDAL: Yes, that's one reason
I
had
to get
out,
too, because I would get caught sooner or later.
I don't know. They knew everybody. So
they asked my dad what happened to rne and he said,
"I don't know. I hope he went over to England," he
NEVDAL:
NELSON: Is there any one thing that stands out as
your most successfrrl achievement in the military
says. They
said "That's what we think too. We're
going to confiscate everything he owns." He said
service?
"That's easy because everything he owned he had on
him and I had provided it for him." Nothing come of
that. But that's all they ...
NEVDAL: No, nothing special. I'm proud of the time
I served thanlftl to Crod that I survived.
NELSON: They never bothered them after that.
NEVDAL: No, they didn't. A lot of people suffered
tenible
undertheil-
NELSON: I think you should be real proud that you
served your country. Now this has to do with victory
in Europe. How did you learn about VE Day and
what was your Ìeaction to it?
NEVDAL: VE Day was interesting because of a couple of days before when I was in St, Andrew's in
Scotland my captain, my pilot came and knocked on
�Kaare
my door in the middle of the night and said we had a
special trip. You better get up right now and come.
That special trip was to got down to London. We
flew down to London. We get down there-we were
parked there and some
VIP's.
VIP 's came-Norwegian
I don't know who they were but they were
VIP's. They come aboard and I was told to be aware
on the radio for orders. At that time, we knew something special was going on and \Ã/e suspected that we
fly these people to Norway because the
surrender was about to take place. We were all excited. I was sitting glued to the radio hoping to get
the message to head for Norway. As it turned out, we
were going to
went up to St. Andrew's to Lucas Airport and landed
there instead. The VIP's went to a flying boat that
was just a few miles from there and flew to Norway.
We had an inkling that this was going to happen before. Two days after, it was all over.
Nevdal-Page
8
NEVDAL: No. It had to be done.
NELSON: Where were you officially discharged
from the service?
NEVDAL: I was offrcially discharged in Oslo, Norway in 1945.I think it was in June or July of '45.
NELSON: Is there anything else that you would like
to talk about that you haven't discussed-your feelings and so on?
NEVDAL: Only that I've been an American citizen
since 1954. I've lived here since '48. Only how proud
I ãm to be an American now and how much I've enjoyed talking to Veterans from the American Air
Force and how well they have accepted me even
though I am from a different counûy. That's about
all.
NELSON: How about VJ Day. What was your reacfion to that?
NEVDAL: I was very happy, very happy about it. I
was back in Norway at the time and followed it \ /ith
great interest, the end of the war. I felt bad for-I
knew some of the Americans who had been in
Europe were shipped right to the Pacific afterwards
NELSON: I thinlc, basically, everybody in this country, somewhere along the line, were from a different
country.
NEVDAL: Yal¡ but I'm the real thing.
NELSON: Yah. Right. Right.
andhadto fight there.
NEVDAL: I have an
NELSON: Now, you had been away from Norway
for how long? Four years?
accent.
NELSON: Well, Kaare, that was real good.
enjoyed that and I thankyou very much.
NEVDAL. Yah, at least.
NEVDAL: You're welcome,
NELSON: Had there been many changes
in
your
town?
NEVDAL: Not man¡ no, no.
NELSON: They never had any air raids or an)'thing
in Norway.
NEVDAL: Oh, yes, They had like Bergen-ìn a sub-
urb of Bergen was bombed. There was a German
submarine base there and the Allies-{hey bombed it.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the use of the
atomic bomb when it was used against the Japanese
civilians in August of 1945?
NEVDAL: I was all for it because I knew that that's
what it took to save a lot of lives, not only American
lives but also Japanese lives.
NELSON: Has that opinion changed over the last
fifty years?
I really
��
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Kaare Nevdal
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kaare Nevdal
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
July 27, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born October 9, 1920 Kaare Nevdal joined England's Royal Air Force as a radio operator and gunner, in March of 1941. He was discharged in June of 1945. He was still living as of 2016.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War 2
World War II
-
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PDF Text
Text
Leonard AdamsPage 1
Leonard Adams
4360 Leighton Downs Drive
Rockford, Illinois
Transcribed and Edited by Margaret Lofgren
Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford road
Rockford, Illinois 61107
Phone 815 397 9112
1
�Leonard AdamsPage 2
Leonard Adams
Today is May 12, 1994. My name is Sue Kasten. I am a volunteer with Midway Village & Museum Center and we are cooperating with a state- wide effort to collect oral histories from Illinois citizens that participated in World War II. We are at Midway Village today in Rockford, Illinois, and I’m with Leonard
Adams who lives at—
LEONARD: 4360 Leighton Downs Drive,
Rockford.
SUE: Rockford? Okay and Leonard served in a
branch of the United States Armed Forces during World War II. We’re here today to talk
about his experiences in the war. Leonard, if you
could give me first of all your name, your full
name, and date and place of birth.
LEONARD: Leonard H. Adams and I was born
in Bettendorf, Iowa—on a farm back there.
What else did you want to know?
SUE: The place and date of birth.
LEONARD: Date of birth, June 19, 1921.
SUE: And your parents names?
LEONARD: Peter and Mary Adams.
SUE: And did you have any brothers and sisters?
LEONARD: I had two brothers. Neither one of
them served in the service, but I had two brothers.
SUE: Okay. Let’s start out with how you entered the military and what was your life like
before 1941? Do you have any memories of
what—
LEONARD: Yes, I lived on the farm and we
also had quite a bit of timber and so we cut timber and sawed lumber on the farm also. And
then I went to high school and after high school
I went to a junior college over there in Elkader,
Iowa. I went two years to that junior college.
When I got out of there, I think in 1941, I looked
for a teaching job and couldn’t find one. Then
the military draft started coming up and I knew
that I would have to answer the call to the military. So I had to sign up for the draft. I signed up
and they drew lottery numbers. I drew a very
high number which deferred me for about a year.
Then about the time that my number was coming up, I wanted to have more choice, so I enlisted in what was known then as the U. S. Army
Air Corps, so I enlisted on October 9th or something like that in 1942.
SUE: Did you have any thoughts about the
United States getting involved in the conflict?
You obviously had anticipated it because you
were planning that in your future you would
have to be in the military, but what thoughts did
you have about the U. S. involvement at that
point?
LEONARD: Well, I felt that it was necessary. It
was one of those things that you just couldn’t get
around. That was it. That’s what you were confronted with.
SUE: And how did you hear about the bombing
of Pearl Harbor? Did you remember how you
heard about that?
LEONARD: Yes, I remember. We were quite
news conscious. We always had the radio on and
we got the daily paper from Dubuque, Iowa.
That was our town. But we heard it on the radio
first, see? And we heard of the bombing of Pearl
Harbor and of course it was no great shock because there were so many controversies going on
at the time You could expect anything and so
when it really happened it wasn’t really too
much of a shock it was just, “We were going to
get into this thing and now we’re in it.”
SUE: And you heard it over the radio?
LEONARD: Yes! It was on the radio.
2
�Leonard AdamsPage 2
SUE: Had you formed any prior opinion to that
about what had been taking place in Asia—as
far as expansion or—were you aware of that?
LEONARD: Oh, yes, yes. The Japanese were
going into—over in China mostly there. I believe it was Chenault or somebody like that who
had these Flying Tigers over there in China.
They frightened the Japanese over there so the
Japanese were expanding out into that area and
then just before Pearl Harbor there was one of
the Japanese ministers over here in Washington
and he was in kind of a conflict with the administration, you know, and wanted a lot of things
we couldn’t grant them, you know, one of those
things we couldn’t—it was an impossible situation. So actually, when Pearl Harbor was struck
it was not a big surprise. Because at that time it
was just some thing—It was more at that time
more in favor of everything that was going on
than there is—There wasn’t as much controversy as there is now days about Bosnia and whether we should or we shouldn’t. In those days it
was “That was it and you had to contend with
it.”
SUE: As far as the Germans, do you remember
like newspaper accounts or radio accounts of
their aggression.
LEONARD: Oh, yeah, yeah. When they went
into Austria and all that stuff. They were, at the
time we got into the war, they had already captured most of the continent. As far as I can remember, and I used to—well, this was quite a
few years before the war started, maybe ’36 or
’37. I was still in high school and I would get up
in the morning about seven o’clock and Adolph
Hitler would be giving a big speech on the radio
at that time. That’s one thing I remember and
there would be—Crowds would be yelling in
favor of him, you know, and Adolph Hitler
would be giving a speech.
We had a hired man and I’d kid around about
things sometimes. I always kidded the hired
man. I said, “Well, you’re going to have to get
over there and fight.” He didn’t like it. I
shouldn’t kid about that. I was about fifteen or
sixteen years old at that particular time. “You’re
going to have to go over there and fight.” No, he
didn’t like it.
SUE: So Hitler’s speeches were also broadcast
on the radio.
LEONARD: Oh, yes, here in the United States.
Hitler’s speeches, yes, they were broadcast. I
remember just before I went to school, around
seven o’clock, I had to catch this bus to go to
school. I got up and was having my breakfast.
Mother was getting breakfast and so forth. You
know like they are about six hours ahead, of
course. So at seven o’clock, that would be about
one o’clock in the afternoon, he’d be giving a
big speech on the radio.
SUE: All in German?
LEONARD: Yes, but they were translating it
too, what it was, but I can remember those big
speeches.
SUE: Tell us. As far as how you got in the military, did you say you enlisted?
LEONARD: Yes, I enlisted, yes. But I was just,
let’s say you’d call it a forced enlistment, because I knew I was going to be drafted. That was
coming. I was classified A-1 and that was to be
drafted. If you enlisted, you had more choice. So
I just jumped the gun about six weeks and enlisted in what was known then as the Air
Corps—Army Air Corps. At that time it was a
part of the army. The Army Air Corps, so I enlisted in that part. I enlisted for a mechanic; actually that’s what I enlisted for.
SUE: Is that what you ended up?
LEONARD: No, I didn’t come anywhere near
that. Do you want me to advance a little further
into it or do you want to—on one of the other
questions?
SUE: Maybe just how you were inducted and
where and so on and then we can get back into
that. Now you were inducted where?
LEONARD: I went to Des Moines, Iowa. They
put us on a train. From there we went to the
basic training camp out in Camp Luna, New
2
�Leonard AdamsPage 3
Mexico, which was situated up in the mountains
7,000 feet above sea level and me never being
above 1000 feet—it was kind of hard on my system to take that extra elevation.
know where we were headed. We knew we were
going through Kansas and Illinois and so forth
and about the third day the rumor came out,
“We’re going to Presque Isle, Maine.” Do you
know where Presque Isle, Maine is?
SUE: And how old were you at the time?
SUE: Mm. Hm.
LEONARD: Well, I was twenty-one.
LEONARD: You do?
SUE: Twenty-one. So then what did they train
you to do in your camp?
LEONARD: Well, that is something that is kind
of a joke with me because I didn’t get any training at. I enlisted as a mechanic. But first we had
to go to this basic training camp. We weren’t in
this basic training camp very long. Like I said I
think it was the 9th or 10th of October that I enlisted and I was in there about a month and we
marched around a little bit and shot the rifle a
couple of times. In fact, on the farm I was accustomed to a rifle and one thing and another so the
amount of training I got was just—I would classify it as absolutely nothing. And so then, I think
what—I just thought about this in the last day or
two. I got into the situation that I got into because you see I had two years of college and I
could type, I had taken a commercial course in
high school and I think that looked at that and
they said, “We need guys up…along the Atlantic
Air Bases. We need people that can work in offices—who can type and so forth.” And I think
they looked at that and they said, “We don’t
have to train this fellow, we’ll just send him”—
And that was true of 250 other fellows—well
they were probably—they took all sorts of people like truck drivers—that could drive fuel
trucks, you know. They didn’t have to train them
for the bases up there in the North Atlantic.
They took truck drivers and somebody that was
already a mechanic, they were not going to train
them. They didn’t have time to train them probably, so they just picked all of us up—250 of us,
put us on a troop train. We were on there— well,
the total time we were on the troop train was
about four days because we were going from
Camp Luna, New Mexico to the very tip of
Maine. Outside of being transferred from California it was about the longest train trip you
could take in the United States. And so we were
on that train for about two days and we didn’t
SUE: My sister lives in Maine. Bangor.
LEONARD: Bangor. Yeah. And I thought I
knew my geography fairly well.
SUE: That’s a pretty obscure place.
LEONARD: Presque Isle, Maine. Where is that
at? I’m dumb. I should know my geography but
I don’t know it that good. Finally we did end up
in Presque Isle, Maine—which is up north of
Bangor, Maine. Just about as far up in the tip of
Maine as you can get. Bangor has a little inlet.
Ships can come up to Bangor. Presque Isle is
something like 40 miles north of Bangor and it’s
inland. It’s and inland community and there was
an air base there and then there were barracks
there and they dumped us in these barracks. Do
you want me to continue on or do you have
some more questions?
SUE: Yeah. Lets go in chronological order so
you can just continue on—with, you know—
how long you were there and then we can move
onto where you went from there.
LEONARD: Well, we arrived at that air base,
Presque Isle Army Air Base it was called. In
those days it was called Army—Army Air
Base—Presque Isle Army Air Base it was
called—See? And we arrived there the first part
of November. I just told you I enlisted in the
second week of October so you see I didn’t have
much training. So then we were in the barracks
there and we just hung around there for, oh,
about three weeks in my case. Then there was a
shipping list of 25 fellows called out and I happened to be on that shipping list. In those days,
in the service, things went mostly by rumor but
you would be surprised how correct the rumors
were. The rumor was that this shipping list was
3
�Leonard AdamsPage 4
going to Goose Bay, Labrador. And it was.
That’s where we went. We flew on up to Goose
Bay, Labrador, and then the others,—let’s say
roughly 225 guys—were still down in Presque
Isle, Maine, and there—just branching off into
what happened to them is that they stayed there
until about February.
And so really I’m only one of about 50, or at
least 25 that didn’t get scratched. The rest of
them that was in this—that got arms and legs
frozen off and that wasn’t too good either.
And really the idea was that all of these 250
guys were to go mainly to Greenland. There was
a base in Greenland, where we were supposed to
go. But they pulled us 25 off for a special reason
to go to Goose Bay so we went—but the rest—
the 225 were headed for the base in Greenland
which was called BWI and it’s near Narsarsuaq,
Greenland, if you know where that’s at. Anyway
they were going to fly in up there but the flying
conditions during the winter and the airplanes
available got to be such that they realized,
“Well, we can’t fly.”
LEONARD: I think it was because, like I mentioned before, that I had two years of college and
I could type and so forth and they were looking
for people that could man the offices in these
areas.
So they shipped them down to Boston around in
February and put them on a boat. Now this boat
went out of Boston in a convoy. The convoy was
headed for England. So when they got up just
off of New Foundland the convoy headed east
toward England. And this single lone boat with
these 225 guys on it headed for Greenland.
Well—evidently there was a U-boat watching
the situation. They couldn’t attack the convoy
very well but they saw this boat take off and
they thought we’ll get that guy, and they did.
They sunk the boat. The trouble with this time of
year up there it was so cold that all the ropes and
so forth to get the life boats off were frozen so
tight that they couldn’t get them loose and so
most of everybody went down with the ship. But
there were 25 fellows from the unit—I don’t call
it a unit—we were just a group of people—
soldiers—and they were lucky enough to get off
and get in life boats. I don’t know just how they
were picked up. It was so cold and icy and so
forth and I don’t know exactly how they were
picked up. They had frozen off—
Then come the next June we at Goose Bay—
some people working out where the airplanes
were coming in from Greenland, saw and met
these fellows that we were with down there and
some had arms missing and legs missing—
frozen off—and they told them what happened.
SUE: Why do you think that you were chosen in
that 25?
SUE: They split you up from where you were in
New Mexico, right?
LEONARD: Yeah, that’s right.
SUE: And then they kind of—you all were together.
LEONARD: Most people in the service were in
something like 61st Division, 21st Regiment,
such and such a Battalion. But that was not true
in our case. We—the 250 people that left New
Mexico were just a miscellaneous group of people that didn’t have any name or number to it
whatsoever. We were just—we were in the Air
Corps and that was about the only thing you
could say about it, so they just split this group
up as they felt like it.
SUE: Hm. Once you did get up to Goose Bay,
what were your duties there? What kind of
things did you do? Did you do typing, and—
LEONARD: Immediately, I was assigned to the
headquarters office, some of it was typing, but
my main duty fell into the filing classification.
We had the commanding officer’s office and the
sergeant major’s office which was the enlisted
men’s portion of the commanding office there.
See? And so there was quite a bit of filing to do
and eventually I was to take care of all of the
filing for the whole main command of the base, I
was in charge of all of the files. I learned later
that back in my home town that the banker and
so forth got inquiries about me because I was
cleared for secret information. Many of these
files were marked “Secret” and “Top Secret”
4
�Leonard AdamsPage 5
and so forth. Many of these things were marked
that way. Before I got into that, they’d evidently
inquired back in my home town—“Well, what
kind of a fellow is this?” See? So then I was put
into that, so then I would have to file all of these
papers.
Then when the Colonel—Colonel Hassell—well
before Colonel Hassell became Commander,
there was a couple of other commanders but anyway when the commanding officer of the base
would come in and want to know, “I want to see
such a radio gram,” or so forth. I would have to
know—I would have to read the stuff so I knew
where to file it and I had to know—have a
knowledge of what he was talking about so I
could go—these matters—they wanted it right
now. So you had to know just where you put it.
SUE: So, all the military correspondence that
would come through would go past your desk
then.
LEONARD: Yeah. Yeah. Well, a lot of the top
secret stuff probably went to the commanding
officer first and then came to my desk. I wasn’t
the first one to see it.
Now in addition to our base at Goose Bay, we
had command over about three or four bases
further north, like in Baffin Island and those areas. It was called “Crystal Command” or something like that. We were also handling
information abut the other bases that were further up north than we were.
SUE: And when you were stationed there, did
you ever have a chance—did you get “off time”
when you got to go off the base? And maybe
meet some of the people who lived up there or
something?
around the base there within twenty miles there
really wasn’t a single—well, yes, there was a
little Indian village down there, we had to have
passes to go down there and I had no interest to
go down there but we did take one excursion by
boat. I think I showed you the picture where we
were on that excursion. We went up the Northwest River and the Northwest River is the most
civilized part outside of Indians. It was regular—I don’t know whether the people were Scottish or something. They were not Indian people.
They were sort of missionary people that—and
this was a village of about maybe 200 people.
And now—we drove up there in 1986 and it’s
probably a village of maybe 1000 right now.
And they’ve got a paved road and a bridge up
there and everything now, but at that time it was
only accessible by boat.
SUE: Is the climate there pretty harsh?
LEONARD: I wouldn’t say it was real harsh,
no. The winters, you know get very cold—well,
40 below zero. But it was a very dry cold and
the snow in the winter time kind of keeps falling. It never melts, so at that time they just let it
pile up on the roads and they just kept driving
over it, and the packed down snow would get
four feet deep on the road. I remember one time,
I was very lucky all the along. I was up there
about a year and then they said after a year you
could go home on furlough so I went home in
September and do you know that we went to a
church picnic in Iowa in September and I almost
froze to death and here I came from Labrador. It
was the dampness. Up there you didn’t have the
dampness and that made a great difference.
There wasn’t as much wind. If we had 40 below
out [?] it was more still and I didn’t really suffer
from the cold at all.
SUE: How long were you in Labrador?
LEONARD: Oh Yeah! There were sort of Indians to a certain extent. And then there was this
town that’s just north of Goose Bay. I don’t
know if you know when I talk about Goose Bay
if you know what I’m talking about.
SUE: I know vaguely where Labrador is.
LEONARD: Yeah. You ask—the people—you
see Labrador is pretty sparsely populated and so
LEONARD: I was in Labrador from December
of ’42 to—I guess it was about December—
no—January of ’44. A year and a half. We were
supposed to be there two years, but it doesn’t
figure out just right—but I went there in ’42 and
came out of there—oh, it was the latter part of
’44. It was almost two years. But I was so doggone lucky that I seemed to get into lucky situa-
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�Leonard AdamsPage 6
tions where other people—like, for instance, in
September of ’43 that was, I got a furlough.
Then turned around in December of ’43 they
chose two of us fellows to go to administrative
school and to the envy of everybody—while we
were supposed to go to Colorado, I guess, Fort
Collins, Colorado. So we got in the airplane and
got down to Presque Isle, Maine, and were on
our way to Colorado to this administrative
school—and—
SUE: Would that have been strictly for the military then? Administration for the military?
LEONARD: Yeah, administration for the military. And when we got down there, I was so
doggone lucky, you know that they said, “well,
they’re closing the school in Colorado, but they
are moving it to Florida and it will not open until
January 15th, and we don’t know with you, so
we’ll just give you a leave of absence and you
can go home for two weeks.”
SUE: And this was when the war was still going
on?
LEONARD: Yeah. It just shows how extremely
lucky I was! And I’d just had a furlough in September and now here comes Christmas. I was
home for Christmas, and then I was in warmer
climate and then we headed down to Florida and
it was extremely warmer and these poor guys up
there! We didn’t—we finally got back up there
about April. I don’t know—we just couldn’t
hardly face the guys that were up there.
SUE: Did you spend a Thanksgiving and
Christmas up there—another year? Do you remember what you did?
LEONARD: Yeah, the first Thanksgiving we
were still in Presque Isle, Maine, and the second
Thanksgiving I was in Labrador.
SUE: What was it like there? Did they try to
make it like the traditional American—?
LEONARD: Yeah! I mean,—you see we had
good living conditions. We weren’t like over in
France or somewhere like that where they were
living in bunkers and foxholes and so on. We
had sort of luxurious living. I want to state what
our mission was, a little bit, up there. You think
we were up there and we weren’t doing anything, but our mission was this. If you look on a
map—In fact this Colonel Hassell, he was one of
the first ones to try to fly this route in 1928 and
if you were ever on an airplane going to England
or any of those areas, they fly over those areas.
So that is really the route to England. If you look
on a map England and those areas that are that
far north, except they are warmer because of the
ocean currents there. And so all the bombers that
went over to bomb Germany—there were two
bases. There was one named Gander Bay in
Newfoundland and ours, about two hundred
miles further north, was called Goose Bay. Now
those two bases carried most all of the bombers.
The bombers would land there as their last fueling stop to go into formation and bomb Europe.
We had many days a hundred bombers come in
and go out and I was working in the office, so I
didn’t [do it] directly but the line crews had to
fuel up these airplanes and all that stuff. We had
to have quarters for these crews to stay over
night when they would come in one day and if
the weather was bad the next night they’d go fly
and they flew by celestial navigation. They
would take off about seven o’clock in the evening and fly all night and get to England the next
morning. And that’s about true. We’ve made a
couple, three trips over to Europe and England
since the 1970’s and that’s true of the commercial airlines, although they take off out of Chicago now. They all take off about four o’clock in
the afternoon and arrive in England about seven
o’clock in the morning. That’s true.
SUE: When you were telling me before and you
showed me that picture of the funeral where you
were a pallbearer. Was that because one of the
flyers crashed on take off, leaving the base?
LEONARD: Yes, that’s right. One of the
bombers crashed on take-off.
SUE: Did that happen very often?
LEONARD: It happened at least twice and
maybe three times. I don’t quite remember. I
know at least a couple of times it happened.
6
�Leonard AdamsPage 7
SUE: They were on their way to England?
LEONARD: Yeah, yeah.
LEONARD: They were heavily loaded with
fuel and they had to gun their engines as hard as
they could to get them off. Those old engines
would heat up too much and catch on fire and
then down the plane would go. You see they
were heavily loaded with fuel to go to England
and in order to do that, they really had to gun
their engines and they kind of overdid it sometimes.
SUE: And then you went up to New York?
SUE: And they had bombs on board, too?
LEONARD: No, they didn’t carry any bombs at
all.
LEONARD: No, no. I went back to Labrador
after that, see?
SUE:: OK. Do you remember how you felt
about VE-Day when you heard about it?
LEONARD: Well, I was in New York at that
time and, well, we were quite elated. Of course,
I went down to Times Square in New York for
the big celebration. I was lucky. I was there.
While they were fighting over there in the
trenches and foxholes, I was going to free radio
shows and so forth in New York.
SUE: Oh, they didn’t?
LEONARD: No, not then. Because they had to
have all the flight gear for the personnel that
were on the bomber and plus they had to carry a
lot of gas.
SUE: What was your role in the military when
you were in New York? Did I ask you that?
SUE: You had typed in this letter that you were
in New York for sometime.
LEONARD: In New York, it was getting toward the end of the war, and our role there was
to—there were orders. Personnel would have
orders for where they were going overseas, and
there they were also coming back from overseas,
the ones that had their tour and they were being
assigned from there to different places in the
United States and it was part of my—they had a
big line that went around the table, a big counter
that went around and these people would come
in there. We were processing only people that
came back by airplane or went over by airplane.
They went out of LaGuardia Field and we were
only processing those who went by airplane.
And so they would come off the airplanes there
and then they’d go by this counter and we would
have the orders ready for them and give them
there orders—whatever sort of papers they
needed to get their meals and so forth, or to go
where they were going to go in the States.
LEONARD: Yeah, yeah. That was after I had
finished the two year tour up in Labrador.
SUE: So some of these soldiers that had been in
the European Theater—
SUE: OK, that was after—
LEONARD: Oh, yeah. Most of them were
bomber crews that were coming back, had
served their tour of duty, and then after once
they—see, I was there in August when VE-Day
was very shortly after that. Then there was a
high influx of these cruisers, as many as the air-
SUE: And so they got the bombs in England.
LEONARD: Oh, yeah. They were shipped over
by boat.
SUE: Let’s see—if you could name the most
difficult thing that you did in the service, what
would it be?
LEONARD: Boy, that’s a…What sort of thing
are you thinking about? I can’t think. Like I say
I keep repeating all of the time. I was the luckiest man in the world and I just can’t think of
anything that was difficult—really.
LEONARD: Yes, that was toward the end of
the war.
SUE: OK, you went to the school then in Florida?
7
�Leonard AdamsPage 8
planes they could muster up—to get them to carry men—they were carrying, oh, maybe three or
four hundred people a day coming in off these
airplanes. We were processing them, sending
them back to wherever they were going to go.
SUE: Did you ever talk to any of them? Did anything stand out in you mind about any of the
guys who came through.
LEONARD: One of the things that stands out in
my mind is that—you see, in those days, they
had the USO groups, see? At that time Frank
Sinatra was very popular. And he came through
our line.
SUE: He did? You got to do his paper work?
LEONARD: Yeah.
SUE: Did you say anything to him? Did you ask
for his autograph?
LEONARD: No, I didn’t ask him. I wouldn’t do
that. It was all business as far as I was concerned. We just treated him, we didn’t stand
there and Ah. Ah and Oh Oh. He didn’t say
much. He wasn’t obstinate or anything like that.
He just didn’t say much. We just processed his
papers and he took them away. And there was a
whole bunch of other people, including a band
or something or other. Yeah, see it was back in
the Frank Sinatra days when the bobby soxers
were going crazy in New York where he was
singing there and here he comes bouncing right
through our lines cause he’d been going overseas on a tour.
SUE: What was your opinion of the use of the
Atomic Bomb in Japan, at the time when it was
dropped?
LEONARD: Mm. I don’t know. There’s many
opinions. The general thought was, “Well, this
has to be done,” you know. And that was it. We
agreed with it.
I just want to divert back to Goose Bay—a couple of little instances that were peculiar. We
were talking about planes that came up there and
crashed or something like that. A B-24 flying
over one night—he was circling to land at our
base, see. It was a tanker airplane with gasoline
on board—it was gasoline. He didn’t have too
much on board but it exploded at about 4000
feet—up there about 20 miles north west of the
base. And the radio operator was blown out of
that airplane and fell free into a snowdrift and
the next day we found wandering, we were up
there looking around. We found him wandering
around in the woods the next day.
SUE: Was he alive?
LEONARD: He was alive, walking around, because he fell without a parachute into the snow
bank. I’ve even heard of people falling out of
planes into the Pacific and happened to hit the
ocean just right and surviving. Another day we
were in the office. Of course, we had a few defense planes around there, fighting planes
around there that would come in buzzing—
VAROOM—over the airport every once in a
while and so we got familiar with the sound—
VAROOM—and we knew what it was when
they came over, see. So one day we were in the
office and it went VAROOM—Oh, oh. That guy
didn’t pull out. So we went out quick and looked
and a big plume of smoke was over there. And
what it happened to be was an English Mosquito
plane. I don’t know if you know what that is but
anyway it was built out of wood and it was up
20,000 feet and there was something wrong with
the plane and they were checking it out. They
were going to fly it across the ocean. I didn’t
know how he got up there, 20,000 feet. So we
went out and looked and we saw this big plume
of smoke going up over there. And well, he had
crashed and we were kind of milling around.
Then there was pieces of the plane and clouds
maybe 7 or 8 or 10,000 feet up. Some of them
are made out of wood. These pieces of wood
kept falling out of the clouds and all of a sudden
we looked up and we saw a parachute coming
down.
We didn’t think too much about it except that’s
good. So it was only a couple or three blocks
from where we were at to where he was going to
land—the parachute. So we thought we’d run
down there. We ran down there and we got as
close as we could. The rescue officer was down
8
�Leonard AdamsPage 9
there, see? And as we were looking up there,
maybe a thousand feet up, we thought, why is he
kicking his legs around so much. Why is he
throwing his arms around so much? And so he
was coming down. He was headed right straight
for a concrete ramp. Our rescue officer was out
there with a rescue truck and so forth. He was
coming right straight at this concrete ramp. And
so it turned out that the reason he was dangling
his legs so much was that he got blown out of
the plane and fell several thousand feet when the
parachute opened and just about tore him out of
the parachute so— one leg was still caught in the
parachute and his head was first down. You can
imagine—he was head first down toward the
concrete ramp. So he was trying to right himself,
trying to pull himself up and get hold of something so maybe he wouldn’t [break out further]
or hit the ramp and so forth. So the rescue officer saw that and I don’t know why they didn’t
get a rescue net—maybe they didn’t have a rescue net in time to get out there, see? So the rescue officer took aim with his body, ran for the
fellow and caught the guy and deflected him
enough so that he didn’t hit the concrete. We
saw that.
SUE: Wow!
LEONARD: That was some kind of a miracle.
SUE: I’m going to ask you this just in case. Did
you ever go to a VA hospital?
LEONARD: No. Well, my uncle was in about
20 years ago.
SUE: That’s probably about it unless you can
think of something else you’d like to add. Would
you rather stop for a moment?
LEONARD: Let’s stop for a minute…I mention
the fact here in this write up that they tried to
ferry fighter planes over to Europe. That was
just a little bit before I got up there in 1942 but it
never was a success with fighter airplanes.
These other bases like at Greenland and up at
Forbisher Bay—they were for the fighter
planes—to take shorter hops at a time. And one
of the most—I don’t know if people know about
it—There was, I think, one B-17 and five or six
fighter planes behind it, following it, and they
took off from a base a little further north in
Greenland, and were heading for Iceland and as
they got toward Iceland, they found out they
were fogged in and they couldn’t land in Iceland
so they had to turn around in Greenland and they
didn’t have enough fuel to get back to their base
in Greenland, so they landed on the Ice Cap on
Greenland and every one of the Fighter planes,
the B-17—they landed safely up there—on the
Ice Cap. The Ice Cap in supposed to be a dangerous place, but they landed safely there. None
of them got injured. And then this B. R. J. Hassell from Rockford here—he happened to be
commanding officer in Greenland at that time.
He flew a search plane up there and found them
on the Ice Cap. I don’t know if I mentioned it
before, but Colonel Hassell—he flew up there in
1928. He was flying to Sweden. There were a lot
of Swedish people in Rockford and they were
interested in Sweden, so—so he made up a plane
that he was flying over to Sweden. He got lost,
well—sort of lost—as he approached Greenland
and he couldn’t find his little old base in Greenland in 1928 and so he landed his plane on the
Ice Cap and walked off safely. And so now here
in 1942 he was flying another airplane—
searching for these people and he found these
six airplanes and the B-17 up there on the Ice
Cap and then he supervised how to get up on the
Ice Cap and get them off and get them down and
they all got safely down. And now, today,
there’s a big push on right out here at Rockford
Airport—they are rebuilding World War II airplanes. They are, as I understand it, they are trying to dig these six fighter planes and this B-17
covered with ice somewhat up there. They found
some of them and they are digging them out and
bringing them back and restoring them.
Then I might just mention that when I got out of
the service I was entitled to go to college. Everybody was entitled to a certain amount of college and I was entitled to four years of school.
Well, so I started to go to school and took up
engineering and I went to Loras College in
Dubuque, Iowa, and then I went to Iowa State in
Ames, Iowa. And then I got a Mechanical Engineering degree and that’s what I was. I was a
Design Engineer. That was my life time work
after that. In fact, the schooling—I was in three
9
�Leonard AdamsPage 10
years. I was entitled to four years of schooling.
SUE: Was that completely paid for?
LEONARD: Almost. The government, really.
The GI Bill of Rights. You probably have heard
of the GI Bill of Rights.
SUE: My dad went under the GI Bill, too.
LEONARD: Anyway, I was entitled to four
years of school. Here I was lucky again. I go to
four years of school and I took an extra course in
between and I graduated from Loras College. So
I took some side courses so it took me longer to
get through this engineering because I went to
Loras College and then I thought I might flunk
out of the Engineering School so I took some
education courses and Science courses and the—
so when it came to the last quarter to sign up.
Actually I had a week or two or a month or two
before the four years was up, see?
low—my classmate—he went on to be a fighter
pilot in Europe during the war. But it was interesting that he was a flight instructor for a classmate of mine over in Iowa. And then I took my
first flying lessons from him and I’ve been flying ever since. I’ve been flying now—I had my
license—I think an unofficial title that I had.
I’ve been active pilot for more years than anybody in Rockford. It’s been almost fifty years
now. And I’m still active. I’m going out this
evening.
SUE: That’s fine.
LEONARD: I’m seventy-three years old in
June and still flying.
SUE: That’s great!
LEONARD: That’s my life.
SUE: Thank you very much.
SUE: Did you have to do it in a four-year period
of time?
LEONARD: Yeah. But with me, I got about
four years and two months. That’s part of my
luck again. I appreciate the fact that I had luck
beyond luck. Right to the very end. I got two or
three months of schooling beyond the four years.
My life time work after that was as a Design
Engineer, which I retired from in 1986. After
that, well, I’d always been interested in airplanes
so I learned to fly on my own, the latter part
of—just give you a little bit of the coincidences
that you can’t believe in hardly. When I was
over in New York, why there was a guy bunking
above me. He was just working. I don’t know
what he was doing. He wasn’t flying or anything
but he was a flight instructor, see. It happened to
be this fellow from—well, he wasn’t from
Dubuque, Iowa, but he was doing flight instruction before the war—I’d say in 1940, ’41, ’42—
in that era—doing flight instructing in Dubuque,
Iowa. And it happened to be that he was the
flight instructor for a classmate of mine back in
Iowa. And so I took my first flying lesson from
him, and that’s another sort of a coincidence
thing that this guy just sleeping in the bunk
above me was a flight instructor for this fel-
10
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
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Midway Village Museum
Publisher
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Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Language
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English
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Sue Kasten
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Leonard Adams
Location
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Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Leonard Adams
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
May 12, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born June 19, 1921, Leonard Adams served in the U.S. Army Air Corps from 1942 to 1945. Adams served at Goose Bay, Labrador under Commander Bert J. Hassell. He died May 20, 2015.
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Midway Village Museum
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2
-
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PDF Text
Text
Leroy W. Elfstrom
2316 24th Street
Rockford, Illinois 61108
Transcribed and Edited by Margaret Lofgren
Midway Village and Museum Center
6799 Guilford Road
Rockford, Illinois 61109
Telephone 815 397 9112
�Leroy W. Elfstrom
Today is January 24, 1994. My name is Charles
Nelson. I am a volunteer at Midway Village &
Museum Center which is cooperating with the
statewide effort in Rockford, Illinois to collect
oral histories from Illinois citizens that
participated in the momentous
events
surrounding World War II. We are in the office
of Midway Village & Museum Center and we are
talking to Mr. Leroy W. Elfstrom, 2312 20th
Street, Rockford, Illinois. Mr. Elfstrom served in
a branch of the United States Air Force during
World War II. We are interviewing him about his
experiences in that wary.
NELSON: What was like for you before the war
and especially during 1941?
NELSON: Leroy would you please start by
introducing yourself to us. Please give us your
full name, place and date of birth.
ELFSTROM: I went to school at Frederick
where we moved from Minneapolis when I was 5
years old. I moved from Frederick, a small
community, on a farm about 2 miles out of town.
Things
were
rather
tough
at
that
timedepression years. We fired a wood stove.
We pumped water outside for the cows. We
chopped our own wood, of course. Primitive
circumstances but we didn’t recognize it at the
time. But the school itself was great. I was able to
play football, was on the debate squad, a club,
played in the orchestra. I did these things that I
would not have been able to do had I been in a
larger school.
ELFSTROM: Okay. I’m Leroy W. Elfstrom. I
was born August 14, 1922 in Minneapolis,
Minnesota.
NELSON What thoughts did you have about the
war before the United States became directly
involved in the conflict?
NELSON Okay. I would like to have the names
of each of your parents.
ELFSTROM: Actually at that time I knew of the
warI was proceeding to Chicago at the time in
a car without a radio. I found out about it the next
day when I got into Chicago. Prior to that time
we didn't there were no daily papers where we
were. Radio received from Minneapolis and we
did listen to that. Of course, we knew there was a
war going on. We knew about Hitler. We knew
that these countries were having problems. But it
had not reached us until December 7th, ’41.
ELFSTROM: My father’s name was William
Carl Elfstrom. He was born in Sweden, came
over here when he was 17 years of age. My
mother was Gertrude Elfstrom and arrived here
when she was about 2 years of age.
NELSON Did you have any brothers of sisters?
ELFSTROM: I had 4 brothers and one sister.
The sister served in the armed forces.
NELSON: Are there any details about your
parents and/or your family that you would like to
give?
ELFSTROM: Well, they were hard working like
most parents of the time. Dad came over here by
himself. It was different for him to come over
without the language. Finding work to do but he
did. He raised his family without any help and he
did a fine job.
NELSON: How did you hear of the December
7th, 1941, bombing of Pearl Harbor by the
Japanese? If so, where were you and what were
you doing at the time? What was your reaction
and the response of those around you?
ELFSTROM: On December 7th I was in route to
Chicago. I was going to stay with an aunt and
work in the Chicago area. I graduated from high
school in May of ’41. I worked at local jobs
__?__ and fireplace builder, but when cold
weather came there was nothing to do. So I
decided to go to Chicago. I made a plan to __?__
was already in Chicago. Drove back with him in
�a car without a radio. We stopped at Madison
briefly. Nothing about the Pearl Harbor bombing.
We arrived in Chicago about 2 o’clock in the
morning when I found out about it from my aunt
who had a son in the service in California.
ELFSTROM: I joined the service __?__ in
1943.
NELSON: How old were you at that time?
ELFSTROM: I was 20 years old.
NELSON Had you formed any prior opinions or
developed any feelings about what was taking
place in Europe or Asia?
ELFSTROM: I really hadn’t. There wasn’t
much talk about it in the school system. I really
didn’t know a lot about what was going on then.
NELSON Do you recall reading newspaper
accounts of German aggression in Europe?
ELFSTROM: I didn’t read a lot. As I mentioned
we had no local daily paper. We received the
Inter-County Leader, which was a small paper
that had a few things on the editorial page but not
very much.
NELSON: What events led to entry in military
service? Were you already in service, drafted or
did you volunteer?
ELFSTROM: As I mentioned I came to Chicago
in December 7 the end of 1941 the beginning of
the war years. I was underage at the time but I
made a special trip back to Fredrick to get
recommendations from three people. So then I
tried to get into the cadet program.
NELSON Was you response to entering military
service influenced by family and friends attitudes
towards the war or threat to national security or
any other consideration?
NELSON: What happened after you were
inducted? Where were you sent?
ELFSTROM: I was inducted here in Rockford. I
happened to have a special girlfriend and I
moved to Rockford from Chicago. I was drafted
by the local draft board. I was sent down to St.
Petersburg,
Florida
for
basic
training
immediately and then later on had other training.
I don’t know if you want me to go into that at this
time.
NELSON: What were you trained to do?
ELFSTROM: I received general tests at Camp
Grant to look for something I could work at in
the service. I apparently did well in code tests
and memory work and that sort of thing and my
aptitude was sufficient so I went into the air
force. The funny part of it was, we were
interviewed by a panel of officers. Of course,
they asked they asked me my favorite actor and
one thing after another. Then they said do you
have any preference. I would like to get into the
Air Force. The gentleman told me he was a
colonel. He said, “You’ve got about as much
chance as a snow ball in hell.” Those were his
exact words.
NELSON: what did you think about the
training?
ELFSTROM: The next day after I arrived in
Chicago. I was on [79th Street East End Ave.] I
walked up to 79th Street and there were blocks of
people waiting to enlist in the service. There was
a loud speaker with “Let’s remember Pearl
Harbor” already and everybody was in a highly
patriotic mode. So it appears to me that the only
thing a healthy person could do is join the
service. That’s what I did.
ELFSTROM: I thought the training was good. I
went to radio school in Scott Field and I thought
that training was very good. It was pretty good
mostly by aptitude and if you did really well you
a 24-hour pas. So we all worked very hard at
code, theory. We had to build a transmitter and a
receiver, mount it in the airplane, take off and go
10 miles away and contact the ground station.
That was our graduation.
NELSON: What was the day of thatdo you
remember?
NELSON: Tell us about any other training
camps you attended.
�ELFSTROM: I further trained at Pensacola,
Florida, and gunnery school. I trained at Scott,
Camp __?__, Utah, advanced radio. Leaving
Camp __?__ in the Salt Lake City area there we
were assigned to a crew and I further trained, for
3 months, at Casper, Wyoming, while assigned to
a crew and flying practice missions Bomber B-24
(?) liberated crew.
NELSON: Did you ever have any leaves or
passes?
ELFSTROM: Please repeat.
NELSON: Did you have any leaves or passes
and how did you use them?
ELFSTROM: Any leaves or passesThe one
leave I remember was coming up from
Pensacola, Florida, in gunnery school and being
assigned to Salt Lake City, Utah, where we were
to have an assigned crew. We had 10 day leave
which they called at that time delay in route that
allowed me and my wife to become married on
January 7, 1944. I guess that’s that you would
call the only leave I had.
NELSON: Okay. Were there any other transfers
to other units? Please give the details.
ELFSTROM: No. I don’t really think I
transferred. I was assigned to a crew at Salt Lake
City and was trained at Casper, Wyoming. The
first pilot of our crew was okay but he didn’t was
to fly any more so he had himself a grounded.
We got another pilot, Ralph __?__, who we
trained again with for about 3 months and my
wife at that time came to Casper. We had a little
apartment there and at the end of that period we
went to Topeka, Kansas, and we were assigned as
an “X” crew that meant we didn’t have an
airplane to fly over. We went over on the Queen
Elizabeth at that time to England.
NELSON: Okay. When you were sent overseas,
how did you get there? You answered that
question. What were you assigned to do after you
arrived?
ELFSTROM: We arrived in England __?__
September 27th, of 1944. We were put out
__?__we went on a truck, for a while on a train;
got into [Tibinen] which is in the Norwich area
of England about 2 o’clock in the morning. Every
member of the people on the ground was up to
meet us. Of course, it was blackout. The crew the
group that day had gone to [Kassel] Germany and
only 2 airplanes came back from that group. The
rest of them were shot down25 in 10 minutes
over [Kassel]. The rest of them crashed on the
way back. Two finally survived. We got together
now. We’re going back this September.
NELSON: What group was that? What squadron
were you in?
ELFSTROM: I was in the 445th Bomber group.
I was in the 703rd Bomb Squadron which, at that
time, just prior to that, had been headed up by
Jimmy Stewart.
NELSON: Okay. What did you think of our
nation’s war effort up to this point?
ELFSTROM: A little hard to say. I know we
were putting a lot of effort into the war effort. I
knew people were very conscientious. They’d do
anything including dying for our country.
NELSON: If you did not immediately enter
combat zone, where did you enter into combat?
ELFSTROM: We entered combat almost
immediately. We had about a 3-day checkout,
flew a few practice missions around in England
but we started flying 35 missions. Think that was
in early October and continued on until April of
the following year.
NELSON: Do you remember what happened in
your first mission?
ELFSTROM: The first mission was what we
call a milk run. We saw no flack. We saw no
enemy fighters, but we saw a lot of puffy white
clouds below us that resembled cotton and it was
absolutely a milk run. We thought, oh boy, if it’s
all like this we’ve got it made.
NELSON: Can you tell us in order the
approximate member and type of casualties and
�how they occurred and how they were treated, if
you had only casualties?
since we disbanded. But others are very close and
I have kept in touch with them.
ELFSTROM: We had numerous casualties.
Sometimes we came back with casualties. More
likely the airplane was shut down and we had no
knowledge of what happened to them until they
were declared prisoners of war or had been
killed.
NELSON: During your combat duties did you
ever capture any enemy prisoners and if so please
describe the circumstances? This probably
doesn’t pertain to you.
NELSON: Did your mental attitude change as
combat continued?
ELFSTROM: I guess the longer we continued to
fly the more I thought that maybe, not well, and
perhaps not get back and I wrote letters to my
wife on that.
NELSON: Did you receive many letters and
packages from home?
ELFSTROM: I got a letter almost every day
from my wife. However, they were bunched up
and I received several at a time and nothing for
weeks at a time. But very few parcels. When they
did come, they either didn’t come at all or they
were badly malled.
NELSON: What did you receive?
ELFSTROM: All I got was some cookies,
mostly came in crumbs; some candy. Things like
that.
NELSON: Did most of the others men write and
receive letters?
ELFSTROM: It depended on the individual. I
went to the __?__ club almost every night and
wrote letters. Some of them didn’t write at all but
most of the, especially those that were married,
wrote home regularly, mostly every day.
NELSON: Did you forge close bonds of
friendship with many of your combat
companions?
ELFSTROM: I did with most of them. Our
crewwe still get together with most of the
crew. Some of them, I have never heard from
ELFSTROM: If you want me to respond, no.
We fly in an airplane and we hadwe went over,
completed our mission and came back. Except
perhaps for sometimes seeing bombs explode in
the towns and cities, I really didn’t see anybody
that [was] a captive.
NELSON: Prior to the end of the war, were you
aware of any civilian concentration camps
existed? If so please explain how you learned
about them. How much you knew at that time.
ELFSTROM: I really didn’t find out a lot about
concentration until I got back from service. I was
over there just a few months, made 35 missions
and really about the only information we get
came from the Stars and Stripes. So I didn’t
know much about that and I didn’t know about
concentration camps in Germany. I did, on the
day we came backwe came into an area where
there were German prisoners of war and of
course, Camp Grant here there were thousands of
German POWs. When I came back from the
service.
NELSON: What was the highlight occurrence of
your combat experience?
ELFSTROM: Well, I suppose for most of us,
the highlight experience is that date we __?__ off
the 34th mission and you had one to go after you
got back. We had ups and downs; sometimes we
literally dumped fairly well by dodging a target.
Other days we bombed the heck out of some
cornfields or woods. We always read about what
we did in the Stars and Stripes. There were
numerous little things and somebody having a
sister or brother whom had done well. Other
times pictures of the family as we sat around.
Sometimes little parties and I suppose they would
be the highlights although it was pretty drab
living conditions at that time.
�NELSON: What was your worst experience in
combat?
ELFSTROM: Probably my worst experience
was coming into the bomb group at night or early
morning and hearing that my good friend Allen
Brook from __?__-- was as close to anybody had
been in the __?__ -- and he was either killed or a
POW. I didn’t find out until a year later that he
was killed on that mission.
NELSON: Tell us what you and the other men
did to celebrate America’s traditional family
holidays such as Thanksgiving and Christmas.
ELFSTROM: Christmas, I remember, my first
Christmas down at __?__ field, Florida. We were
suppose to fall out in class A uniform. It was
raining and very cold and we wanted for dinner
close to our hour. They told us to put fatigues on
and go to the mess hall. We got over there
soaking wet. The meal, as I recall, was good.
Circumstances not so well.
NELSON: When and how did you return to the
United States after the war?
ELFSTROM: At the end of the war, after I
completed my 35 missions, we were assigned to
fly so many missions at that time. I completed
my 35 and then I was to be rotated back to the
United States and go into another state of
operation but which was the Pacific. I came back
on a hospital ship. That’s the war most of the Air
Force people came back. By the time I got
assigned to the hospital ship many of them were
flown over from prisoner of war camps. Our
prisonersat that time there was 135 people who
survived on egg nog, whiskey or brandy for 3 or
4 days. Finally they were given baby food. Their
stomachs were that bad from lack of food in
Germany at that time.
NELSON: What happened when you arrived in
the United States?
ELFSTROM: I was given charge of about 18
GIs, like myself from Camp __?__, New Jersey:
Chicago, Fort Sheridan that were to be processed
or released or whatever. I came back to Sheridan.
Those 18 I was in charge of, all but 6 managed to
get off the train somewhere. I still had the
records, which I turned in and they asked if you
wanted to file for any disability or any thing like
that or you could proceed directly home. Of
course, I chose to go back to Rockford.
NELSON: First tell us about your military rank
and your decorations, especially campaign
decoration.
ELFSTROM: I was a Tech Sergeant, which
means I had 5 stripes, radio operator mechanic,
gunner and over all handyman on the crew. That
means assisting the pilot with the black suits. We
got 10 hours of flying to learn how to land the
Liberator without the wheels upwithout the
wheels down. You were also first aid man and
had a few other duties because the radio operator
they have a gun position except in emergency.
NELSON: How
decorations?
about
you
campaign
ELFSTROM: Okay. I have the air medal with 7
clusters. I have the 3 campaign ribbons. I have
the, well, a __?__ which was awarded by the
French; got one from the Belgium government
but mostly air medals which was what awarded.
NELSON: Plus your good conduct medal.
ELFSTROM: Oh yeas. I did get it.
NELSON: How did you get along with the men
with whom you were the greatest contact?
ELFSTROM: I got along very well. I was kind
of in charge of the enlisted men and most of them
were very cooperative some of them were very
young. There was, however, usually on a crew,
we had one maverick and I had a maverick in our
crew who had to have very close supervision. We
did have some problems with him but mostly it
was a very new bonding experience
NELSON: Were there things you could have
done differently if you could do them again?
ELFSTROM: I really don’t know if I would
have done anything different. I did what they told
me to do pretty much. I didn’tof course, flying
�was a voluntary job. You didn’t have to fly. We
had some in our air group who decided not to fly
before they went over and they were given jobs
in the PX or something and other places I had
thought at that time because we had lost __?__
training crews the night before, our pilot decided
not to fly anymore. He was reassigned and we
got a new pilot. I didn't sleep all that night. As
you know I had married and possibly a child on
the way. But I stayed with the crew. I figured this
was my job and whatever it was, was what I had
to do.
NELSON: What was the most difficult thing you
had to do during you period of military service?
ELFSTROM: I guess the most difficult thing I
had to do was my wife was expecting a child and
I had to wait to find out that everything was all
right. It was a cesarean operation which was not
really at that timeit was not completely
perfected and I didn’t hear about it until several
days later. I suppose at this time, waiting at that
time to find out if everything was okay.
NELSON: Was there any one thing that stood
out as the most successful achievement in the
military service? Completing 35 missions.
ELFSTROM: Well, completing the 35 missions
and again we had some real successes where we
had done a great job. We had 100 missions
__?__, other achievements and awards for doing
a good job. We had our citations for the group
and 2nd Air Division itself having done a good
job. I suppose that would be the highlight.
NELSON: How did you learn of VE Day and
what was your reaction to it?
ELFSTROM: We, as I mentioned, I was
assigned to a hospital ship and we had departed.
All of a sudden we heard that the war was over,
just after we got aboard. But shortly after we left,
I think the next night, with all these explosions, I
thought by golly war was over or not. Well it was
determined that it was over and apparently they
had found a submarine that had gotten too close
and dumping that we called “ash cans” on that
submarine.
NELSON: How did you learn of VJ Day and
what was your reaction to that?
ELFSTROM: We had had a 5 week, what the
called a recuperation furlough on Miami Beach,
Florida, and when I got down there, I think I’m a
little bit ahead of myself, sorry abut that.
NELSON: That’s okay.
ELFSTROM: We went down there and I was
assigned to a B-29 Squadron in the Dakotas, I
forget whether it was North or South Dakota. But
in the meantime they split up the battle Germans
into 3 battle zones which each give me an
additional 5 points. My air medals gave me 5
points each, so I ended up with 80 points. I
decided the men married with a child, doesn’t
have to risk (?) anymore. Besides you’ve been
out with 2 __?__ missions and they said the war
in the Pacific would be like the European war
would be like a picnic compared to what the
other stuff you’d go through in Japan.
NELSON: What was your opinion of the use of
the atomic bomb when it was used against
Japanese civilians in August, 1945?
ELFSTROM: There again I would have
misgivings. I __?__ when we were over Europe
over Germany and dropping a bombs. Of course,
bombs were not perfected as they would be today
and we knew a lot of civilians were killed.
Nobody likes to see civilians killed. I’veI
talked to German pilots on more than one
occasion. They were in the service for the same
reason we were; they were young men. They
entered the service as 20,000 fighter pilots. They
ended up with 2000. At least people didn’t know
what it was they were told what to do and I guess
for the same reason that we were in.
NELSON: Has your opinion changed much in
the past 50 years?
ELFSTROM: I have 2 sons in Vietnam in the
combat area and at first I thought this is what
should be done. I was in a debate squad up here
at Blackhawk, we got together once a wee and
we were given choices, whether pro against
Vietnam. I always accepted the pros side. But as
�it extended more and more and more I began to
have a very sour attitude toward the Vietnam
War. I could still __?__ almost unpatriotic at the
time and then I wasn’t sure. That’s the way it
ended.
NELSON: When and where
discharged from the service?
were
you
ELFSTROM: Yes, I got back from the
European Theater for 5 weeks of recuperation
and then spent some time in Miami and as I
reflect, it was the end of July or August I got my
discharge.
NELSON: Do you have a disability rating or
pension?
ELFSTROM: I have no disability rating and I
receive no pension.
NELSON: Do you have any opinions about our
nation’s military status and its practices?
ELFSTROM: I hear a lot of things on the radio
programs and, of course, I listened to State of the
Union speech last night by President Clinton. I
hope and I maintain that we must have a good
strong military position and I hope that is being
done. Sometimes it depends on what politician
you listen to.
NELSON: Do you have any contact with the
Veterans’ Administration?
ELFSTROM: I have no contact with the VS
because, of course, I’ve had no disability and no
reason to participate with the VA.
NELSON: You’ve never gone to a VA Hospital
for medical services?
ELFSTROM: No, I worked at __?__ in the
civilian sector and I __?__ had good insurance. I
did get insurance for about 15 years with the
government. So I never was in a Veteran’
Hospital or participated anything in Veterans.
NELSON: Would you like to tell us about how
your family supported you in your military life?
ELFSTROM: My family supported me with
letters and encouragement and of course they had
a wedding party for us during that 3-day delay in
route. And we spent . . . although my parents are
dead now. We’ve been very close to my brothers
and one sister and I know what they’re doing
practically all the time although we were
separated by about 300 miles. Use the phone and
my letters, some post cards, we maintain strong
family relationships. I’m very close to ourwe
have 2 sons; one has a PHD in philosophy but no
family. My other son, Lance, works at the airport
as an electronic technician, has 3 children. They
have 10-year old twins and the little guy is 8
years old. We just had our 50th wedding
anniversary. A little 10-year gal played the
anniversary waltz for us. She’s just the apple of
our eye. We adore all of our grand kids.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
World War II Veterans and their Stories
Description
An account of the resource
In the mid-1990s Midway Village Museum interviewed World War II veterans about their military experiences. The interviews were recorded on cassette tape and then transcripts were typed up. Those written transcripts are available here. In some cases parts of the interview were inaudible. These sections have been reflected with question marks or the use of square brackets around a word or phrase that is the transcriber's best guess. No audio files have been digitized.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Midway Village Museum
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Midway Village Museum
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-2001
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Charles Nelson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Leroy Elfstrom
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Cassette Tape
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Leroy Elfstrom
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
January 24, 1994
Description
An account of the resource
Born August 14, 1922, Leroy Elfstrom enlisted in the Air Force as a radio operator. He died July 9, 2006.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Rockford Illinois
Veterans
World War II
WW2