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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.72
Memphis Jan 24/63
Dear Father
Most all of the boys have gone on picket and Bob has gone out and I am alone in his tent so I
thought that I would write you A few lines as you say that you have not had any letters from me
for A long time but I have written every week or nearly so I have not receaved [sic] but two
letters from home since the rade [sic] on the rail rode [sic] one of them I receaved [sic] from
Mate at cold water on our way back and the other
Page 2
I received from you by George Bradley day before yesterday we arrived hear [sic] on
Wednesday and Bob saw him downtown We do not get mail very often now but I do not see
what the reason is now that we have got hear [sic] we ought to have one every day but we do not
get any more than once A week you say that you soon expect to hear of some promotions in our
Regament [sic] I told you what they had done when we was down below Oxford in one of my
letters but I suppose you have got it the Officers of the Regament [sic] electted [sic]
Page 3
Lut [sic] Col Maltby for Col and Capt Cowen Lut [sic] Col over Major Smith and they have sent
for thare [sic] Commissions but thare [sic] is A good deal of doubt hear [sic] wether [sic] the
Govener [sic] will give any one [sic] elce [sic] that Commission over the Major but he may and
then if he does they think that the Major will resign and then they will put in An other [sic]
Major that has been thare [sic] plans as they want to get the Major out of the Regament [sic]
Capt [Craven] is A very good man but he is no Milatary [sic] man
Page 4
We expect to get our pay now every day but shall not get but two month [sic] pay this time but
they say that we shall soon get the rest I shall not be able to send any home untill [sic] we get all
that is due and then I shall be able to send home about fifty dollars but it will take all of my two
month pay and A little more to pay the debts that I have Contracted in the past six month [sic] I
do not think that I shall owe so much in the next six month [sic] to come as I do now but
[remainder of letter is not extant]
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
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Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
2013.70.72
Memphis Jan 24/63
Dear Father
Most all of the boys have gone on picket and Bob has gone out and I am alone in his tent so I thought that I would write you A few lines as you say that you have not had any letters from me for A long time but I have written every week or nearly so I have not receaved [sic] but two letters from home since the rade [sic] on the rail rode [sic] one of them I receaved [sic] from Mate at cold water on our way back and the other
Page 2
I received from you by George Bradley day before yesterday we arrived hear [sic] on Wednesday and Bob saw him downtown We do not get mail very often now but I do not see what the reason is now that we have got hear [sic] we ought to have one every day but we do not get any more than once A week you say that you soon expect to hear of some promotions in our Regament [sic] I told you what they had done when we was down below Oxford in one of my letters but I suppose you have got it the Officers of the Regament [sic] electted [sic]
Page 3
Lut [sic] Col Maltby for Col and Capt Cowen Lut [sic] Col over Major Smith and they have sent for thare [sic] Commissions but thare [sic] is A good deal of doubt hear [sic] wether [sic] the Govener [sic] will give any one [sic] elce [sic] that Commission over the Major but he may and then if he does they think that the Major will resign and then they will put in An other [sic] Major that has been thare [sic] plans as they want to get the Major out of the Regament [sic] Capt [Craven] is A very good man but he is no Milatary [sic] man
Page 4
We expect to get our pay now every day but shall not get but two month [sic] pay this time but they say that we shall soon get the rest I shall not be able to send any home untill [sic] we get all that is due and then I shall be able to send home about fifty dollars but it will take all of my two month pay and A little more to pay the debts that I have Contracted in the past six month [sic] I do not think that I shall owe so much in the next six month [sic] to come as I do now but
[remainder of letter is not extant]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
George Sealy to his father Richard Sealy written January 24, 1863 from Memphis, Tennessee.
Description
An account of the resource
George A. Sealy was born in the town Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England, May 11, 1841 to Richard Sealy (born c. 1804 in South Welton, England) and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy (born c. 1803 in Wells, England). His family (including 2 brothers & 1 sister) moved to Rochester, New York around 1843. They later moved to Geneva, NY and final settled in Rockford, IL in 1855. He and his 2 brothers served in the Union Army during the American Civil War. George (along with brother Robert) served in Company G, 45th Illinois Volunteers. He enlisted September 17, 1861 as a private and was later promoted to sergeant by his brother Robert. He was involved in both the siege and the occupation of Vicksburg, and was mustered out July 12, 1865. He married twice. His first wife was Jennie A. Paxson, who died of consumption at age 33 May 4, 1876. His second wife was Fannie E. Zimmerman (died in 1908), whom he married August 5, 1877 in Winnebago County. After the war, George worked for Emerson, Talcott and Co. in Rockford, acting as their superintendent. Upon leaving Talcott Emerson in 1896 he spent a short while working for Henry Sears Cutlery in Chicago before retiring the next year and moving to San Jose, CA. It was there he passed in November 15, 1909 suddenly, while dancing at a social gathering.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
January 24, 1863
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
George Sealy
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.72
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
George Sealy
Memphis, Tennessee
Midway Village Museum
Richard Sealy
Rockford, Illinois -- History
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.73
Oxford Lafaette Co
Mississippi Dec 9/1862
Dearest Sister
I received yours of 30th day before yesterday and also one from [Seill] at the same time and
received one from her the day before that so you see that she is writing to me very often and I am
glad of it for as you say we are very glad to receve [sic] letters from home and as often as
posable [sic] I had not received one for some time before as we have been on the move and the
mob is very uncertin [sic] I do not think that we shall stope [sic] hear [sic] long but have to stop
on acount [sic] of provison [sic] we are
Page 2
living on half rations now but make out to get along very well we do not care as much about
theas [sic] things when we can be on the move and driving the enemy befor [sic] us as it loocks
[sic] then as though we wer [sic] doing something to wind this war up and you may be shure
[sic] that we are all anxous [sic] to put an end to it and go home I am in hopes that we shall be
trough [sic] by Spring. I wrote father a short letter at Holley Springs and answerd [sic] Sills
letters yesterday. We left Sea Grange one week ago last friday marched eight miles and camped
for the night we had no water at that place suferd [sic] a little for the want of it started
Page 3
in the morning and martched [sic] seven miles to cold water this is A beautifull [sic] stream and
the water is very cold it is the stream that the Rebbels [sic] said that we should not drink the
water of they had A large camp at this place but you se [sic] that they did not stay there long
after. we commenced to martch [sic] on them this stream is fifteen miles from Sea Grange and
six miles fro [sic] H.S. we left thare [sic] in the morning much refreshed and got to Holly Springs
at noon it commenced to rain just as we got to our camping place and rained all night with
thunder and lightning but we had our tents to shelter us and did not suffer from it. it cleard [sic]
off cold
Page 4
�in the morning and at about noon all the troops but our Regement [sic] had orders to martch [sic] and left
leaving us thare [sic] for Provost guard we was glad of that as we thought that we should stay thare [sic]
and it was very mudy [sic] to martch [sic] but we were damed [sic] to have worse martching [sic] we staid
[sic] thare [sic] that night and then were orderd [sic] to go to town and take quarters in the building we got
splended [sic] quarters and wer [sic] in the best of spirits fixed nice beds and had one good nights [sic]
sleep it had been raining all night and still rained in the morning but along towards noon it began to clear
up and at eleven O clock thare [sic] came an other Regament [sic] back with orders to releave [sic] us and
we wer [sic] to start right off to join our Brigade
Page 5
You may be shure [sic] that we wer [sic] mad then our Brigade had two days start of us and we had to
chetch [sic] them and the mud ancle [sic] deep well we got started at one O’clock and came as far as
Waterford whictch [sic] is eight miles this side of H.S. we felt in better spirits after we got on the road we
had just as soon [keep] with our Brigade as stay back but when we have to stay back A day an [time] and
then had to chetch [sic] up again the boys do not like it much we started in the morning and had to make
eleven miles that day which was four this side of the Talley Hatchy [here] was another place that they
were going to
Page 6
make A big stand and had fine brest [sic] works with A swamp and A River for us to cros [sic] before we
could get at him but Sherman was getting around on thare [sic] flank and they thought it was time for
them to be getting out of that. [Logans] Divson [sic] was at this last place that we stoped [sic] but our
Brigade had been sent out to this place in advance we had 11 miles to come that day whitch [sic] was
friday and the Davison [sic] was to start at the same time and our Regament [sic] was to take the lead but
they told us that they would let us know when they were going as it was raining and they thought that
they would not start vey [sic] early and when
Page 7
they sent us orders to start some of the Regiments had been started for A half an hour so that we got
mixed up and was so all day and it made it harder martching [sic] so when we got hear [sic] we wer [sic]
tired haveing [sic] had three days hard martching [sic] but we are rested now and redy [sic] to go on as
soon as they are redy [sic] for us to go this is the most Secesh town that we have been in yet thare [sic] is
A large State Institute hear [sic]. We have got from 12 to 14 (twelve and fourteen) hundred Prisoners hear
�[sic] and takeing [sic] more evry [sic] day and they are coming in squads of eight and ten and giving
themselves up and they all seam [sic] to agree that this western army cannot stand aganst [sic] us thare
[sic] is a Brother of Charlie Leach hear [sic] he gave
Page 8
himself up or as he says he says he was trying to surround our Pickets and was takeen [sic] up he
is from texes [sic] and has been in the servis [sic] three month [sic] and is glad to get out of it he
had to enlist under this conscript law I am glad to have you point out my mistakes in spelling and
hope that you and Father will correct all of them and I will try to profit by it I had found out my
mistake in Soldiers but was glad to have you point it out to me and hope that you will continue to
do so. how I should like to see you all and that little baby that I hear so much about I want to se
[sic] him so bad but I suppose he will be able to crawl abut [sic] before I see him I guess that
thare [sic] is enugh [sic] thare [sic] to spoil [sic] him now without me kiss him once in A while
for me tell Father that I wish he would write oftener and mother that
[Last page of the Letter is written vertically over the top of page 5]
I would like A five [lines] from her but I suppose she thinks that I ought to write to her but tell
her that I do not think the less of her because [sic] I do not write to her but I consider my letters
to one is for all and I am thinking of you all, all the time the cloves that you sent tasted very nice
to me as I had not had any for so long you do not any of you say any thing about Mothers [sic]
finger now so it [interly] well I beleave that I have written enough this time and am afraid that
you will get tired reading it so I will close give my love to all Father Mother Woodard Baby and
all theres. And I remane [sic] with much love to yourself your ever affectionate Brother Geo
Sealy
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
2013.70.73
Oxford Lafaette Co
Mississippi Dec 9/1862
Dearest Sister
I received yours of 30th day before yesterday and also one from [Seill] at the same time and received one from her the day before that so you see that she is writing to me very often and I am glad of it for as you say we are very glad to receve [sic] letters from home and as often as posable [sic] I had not received one for some time before as we have been on the move and the mob is very uncertin [sic] I do not think that we shall stope [sic] hear [sic] long but have to stop on acount [sic] of provison [sic] we are
Page 2
living on half rations now but make out to get along very well we do not care as much about theas [sic] things when we can be on the move and driving the enemy befor [sic] us as it loocks [sic] then as though we wer [sic] doing something to wind this war up and you may be shure [sic] that we are all anxous [sic] to put an end to it and go home I am in hopes that we shall be trough [sic] by Spring. I wrote father a short letter at Holley Springs and answerd [sic] Sills letters yesterday. We left Sea Grange one week ago last friday marched eight miles and camped for the night we had no water at that place suferd [sic] a little for the want of it started
Page 3
in the morning and martched [sic] seven miles to cold water this is A beautifull [sic] stream and the water is very cold it is the stream that the Rebbels [sic] said that we should not drink the water of they had A large camp at this place but you se [sic] that they did not stay there long after. we commenced to martch [sic] on them this stream is fifteen miles from Sea Grange and six miles fro [sic] H.S. we left thare [sic] in the morning much refreshed and got to Holly Springs at noon it commenced to rain just as we got to our camping place and rained all night with thunder and lightning but we had our tents to shelter us and did not suffer from it. it cleard [sic] off cold
Page 4
in the morning and at about noon all the troops but our Regement [sic] had orders to martch [sic] and left leaving us thare [sic] for Provost guard we was glad of that as we thought that we should stay thare [sic] and it was very mudy [sic] to martch [sic] but we were damed [sic] to have worse martching [sic] we staid [sic] thare [sic] that night and then were orderd [sic] to go to town and take quarters in the building we got splended [sic] quarters and wer [sic] in the best of spirits fixed nice beds and had one good nights [sic] sleep it had been raining all night and still rained in the morning but along towards noon it began to clear up and at eleven O clock thare [sic] came an other Regament [sic] back with orders to releave [sic] us and we wer [sic] to start right off to join our Brigade
Page 5
You may be shure [sic] that we wer [sic] mad then our Brigade had two days start of us and we had to chetch [sic] them and the mud ancle [sic] deep well we got started at one O’clock and came as far as Waterford whictch [sic] is eight miles this side of H.S. we felt in better spirits after we got on the road we had just as soon [keep] with our Brigade as stay back but when we have to stay back A day an [time] and then had to chetch [sic] up again the boys do not like it much we started in the morning and had to make eleven miles that day which was four this side of the Talley Hatchy [here] was another place that they were going to
Page 6
make A big stand and had fine brest [sic] works with A swamp and A River for us to cros [sic] before we could get at him but Sherman was getting around on thare [sic] flank and they thought it was time for them to be getting out of that. [Logans] Divson [sic] was at this last place that we stoped [sic] but our Brigade had been sent out to this place in advance we had 11 miles to come that day whitch [sic] was friday and the Davison [sic] was to start at the same time and our Regament [sic] was to take the lead but they told us that they would let us know when they were going as it was raining and they thought that they would not start vey [sic] early and when
Page 7
they sent us orders to start some of the Regiments had been started for A half an hour so that we got mixed up and was so all day and it made it harder martching [sic] so when we got hear [sic] we wer [sic] tired haveing [sic] had three days hard martching [sic] but we are rested now and redy [sic] to go on as soon as they are redy [sic] for us to go this is the most Secesh town that we have been in yet thare [sic] is A large State Institute hear [sic]. We have got from 12 to 14 (twelve and fourteen) hundred Prisoners hear [sic] and takeing [sic] more evry [sic] day and they are coming in squads of eight and ten and giving themselves up and they all seam [sic] to agree that this western army cannot stand aganst [sic] us thare [sic] is a Brother of Charlie Leach hear [sic] he gave
Page 8
himself up or as he says he says he was trying to surround our Pickets and was takeen [sic] up he is from texes [sic] and has been in the servis [sic] three month [sic] and is glad to get out of it he had to enlist under this conscript law I am glad to have you point out my mistakes in spelling and hope that you and Father will correct all of them and I will try to profit by it I had found out my mistake in Soldiers but was glad to have you point it out to me and hope that you will continue to do so. how I should like to see you all and that little baby that I hear so much about I want to se [sic] him so bad but I suppose he will be able to crawl abut [sic] before I see him I guess that thare [sic] is enugh [sic] thare [sic] to spoil [sic] him now without me kiss him once in A while for me tell Father that I wish he would write oftener and mother that
[Last page of the Letter is written vertically over the top of page 5]
I would like A five [lines] from her but I suppose she thinks that I ought to write to her but tell her that I do not think the less of her because [sic] I do not write to her but I consider my letters to one is for all and I am thinking of you all, all the time the cloves that you sent tasted very nice to me as I had not had any for so long you do not any of you say any thing about Mothers [sic] finger now so it [interly] well I beleave that I have written enough this time and am afraid that you will get tired reading it so I will close give my love to all Father Mother Woodard Baby and all theres. And I remane [sic] with much love to yourself your ever affectionate Brother Geo Sealy
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
George Sealy to his sister Mary Ann Sealy Woodward written December 9, 1862 from Oxford, Lafayette County, Mississippi.
Description
An account of the resource
George A. Sealy was born in the town Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England, May 11, 1841 to Richard Sealy (born c. 1804 in South Welton, England) and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy (born c. 1803 in Wells, England). His family (including 2 brothers & 1 sister) moved to Rochester, New York around 1843. They later moved to Geneva, NY and final settled in Rockford, IL in 1855. He and his 2 brothers served in the Union Army during the American Civil War. George (along with brother Robert) served in Company G, 45th Illinois Volunteers. He enlisted September 17, 1861 as a private and was later promoted to sergeant by his brother Robert. He was involved in both the siege and the occupation of Vicksburg, and was mustered out July 12, 1865. He married twice. His first wife was Jennie A. Paxson, who died of consumption at age 33 May 4, 1876. His second wife was Fannie E. Zimmerman (died in 1908), whom he married August 5, 1877 in Winnebago County. After the war, George worked for Emerson, Talcott and Co. in Rockford, acting as their superintendent. Upon leaving Talcott Emerson in 1896 he spent a short while working for Henry Sears Cutlery in Chicago before retiring the next year and moving to San Jose, CA. It was there he passed in November 15, 1909 suddenly, while dancing at a social gathering.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
December 9, 1862
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
George Sealy
Format
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jpeg
pdf
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.73
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
George Sealy
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Oxford Mississippi
Rockford, Illinois -- History
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.77
[Written at the top of the page, above the letter]
I found this letter among Mr. Ws old papers, and thought it might be interesting to you and your
wife to “call to remembrance the days that are past.” 50 years ago. Mr. W always kept all of
yours and Priscillas letters, he had them tied up in packages very choice I never saw a man who
thought so much of his brothers and sister as he did. He was “A choice man & a goodly”.
Rockford, May 21st, 1865
Dear Brother
You will excuse my not answering your last letter sooner as I understood that Whitman matter
did not require an immediate answer You were correct as to the as to the as to the [sic] amount
that I received I think that I got two dollars in money, the rest I took in goods at Chandlers with
the choice of that or nothing As to his concience [sic] in such matters I think it will strech (sic)
as far as the law will allow it to
We have had quite exciting times for the last few weeks First came the news of the fall of
Richmond most of the shops had to stop We thought that we would wait till we heard of the
breaking up Lees army Next came the news of his
Page 2
surrender then we all had to stop and celibrate [sic] On the evening of the fourteenth the store
house and paint shop connected where our reapers are stored took fire and burned up some three
hundred reapers the next morning about eight we heard of the death of Lincoln we stoped[sic]
again for a very different reason
Last monday they had to stop to celibrate [sic] the catching of Jeff As to whether the fire will
bother me about geting [sic] the money in time to go east or not is more than I can tell
Crowell came round and said that he was settleing [sic] with his creditors at fifty cents on a
dollar I thought that if I refused to take it, it might cost the other half to collect it I will send you
the amount enclosed thirty five dollars Elmer sends a kiss to little cousins Your brother
Walter
�Page 3
Rockford May 21 / 65
Dear Sister
As Walter is writing to his brother I take the opportunity to put in a word. I received a letter
from mother 3 or 4 weeks since. I shall answer it soon. We are just beginning to feel that we
have a summer. We have had an unusually cold backward spring so that vegetation has been
very much checked. We had a severe frost the first of the month that destroyed much of the early
fruit. We have been improving our lot some & Walter has bought the one adjoining so in time
we shall have a very nice place We should not have bought this spring only to prevent it falling
into other hands I hope it will make no difference in our visiting you but perhaps it will
Page 4
our intention now is to reach you in Sep. as that is the best time for Walter to leave. I suppose
you are very busy, with us, there never was so much extravagance in dress as at present. the great
events that are moving a nation seem not to check it in the least. how nicely every thing [sic]
comes around just right. don't you think Jeff must have felt like a president while trying to
escape in his wifes clothes? he ought to be taken through the country and exhibited as the
embodiment of manly courage & valor. but no doubt he will be well taken care of. Johnson
knows how to administer justice to such fiends (sic) I hope. remember me to yours [sic] husband
& family also to mother & father & brother Franklins family hoping soon to hear from you I
remain yours truly
Mate Woodward
[Written upside down at the bottom of the page]
We send the money by order as it is safe & you will probably get it easily from Augusta
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
2013.70.77
[Written at the top of the page, above the letter]
I found this letter among Mr. Ws old papers, and thought it might be interesting to you and your wife to “call to remembrance the days that are past.” 50 years ago. Mr. W always kept all of yours and Priscillas letters, he had them tied up in packages very choice I never saw a man who thought so much of his brothers and sister as he did. He was “A choice man & a goodly”.
Rockford, May 21st, 1865
Dear Brother
You will excuse my not answering your last letter sooner as I understood that Whitman matter did not require an immediate answer You were correct as to the as to the as to the [sic] amount that I received I think that I got two dollars in money, the rest I took in goods at Chandlers with the choice of that or nothing As to his concience [sic] in such matters I think it will strech (sic) as far as the law will allow it to
We have had quite exciting times for the last few weeks First came the news of the fall of Richmond most of the shops had to stop We thought that we would wait till we heard of the breaking up Lees army Next came the news of his
Page 2
surrender then we all had to stop and celibrate [sic] On the evening of the fourteenth the store house and paint shop connected where our reapers are stored took fire and burned up some three hundred reapers the next morning about eight we heard of the death of Lincoln we stoped[sic] again for a very different reason
Last monday they had to stop to celibrate [sic] the catching of Jeff As to whether the fire will bother me about geting [sic] the money in time to go east or not is more than I can tell
Crowell came round and said that he was settleing [sic] with his creditors at fifty cents on a dollar I thought that if I refused to take it, it might cost the other half to collect it I will send you the amount enclosed thirty five dollars Elmer sends a kiss to little cousins Your brother
Walter
Page 3
Rockford May 21 / 65
Dear Sister
As Walter is writing to his brother I take the opportunity to put in a word. I received a letter from mother 3 or 4 weeks since. I shall answer it soon. We are just beginning to feel that we have a summer. We have had an unusually cold backward spring so that vegetation has been very much checked. We had a severe frost the first of the month that destroyed much of the early fruit. We have been improving our lot some & Walter has bought the one adjoining so in time we shall have a very nice place We should not have bought this spring only to prevent it falling into other hands I hope it will make no difference in our visiting you but perhaps it will
Page 4
our intention now is to reach you in Sep. as that is the best time for Walter to leave. I suppose you are very busy, with us, there never was so much extravagance in dress as at present. the great events that are moving a nation seem not to check it in the least. how nicely every thing [sic] comes around just right. don't you think Jeff must have felt like a president while trying to escape in his wifes clothes? he ought to be taken through the country and exhibited as the embodiment of manly courage & valor. but no doubt he will be well taken care of. Johnson knows how to administer justice to such fiends (sic) I hope. remember me to yours [sic] husband & family also to mother & father & brother Franklins family hoping soon to hear from you I remain yours truly
Mate Woodward
[Written upside down at the bottom of the page]
We send the money by order as it is safe & you will probably get it easily from Augusta
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Amos Walter Woodward to his brother Franklin Woodward. The second section is a letter from Amos W. Woodward's wife Mary Ann (Mate) Sealy Woodward to Amos' sister. Written on May 21, 1865 from Rockford, Illinois.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Description
An account of the resource
Mary Ann “Mate” Sealy was born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England, on January 29, 1834 to Richard Sealy (born c. 1804 in South Welton, England) and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy (born c. 1803 in Wells, England). Her family (including 3 brothers ) moved to Rochester, New York around 1843. They later moved to Geneva, NY and final settled in Rockford, IL in 1855. She married Amos Walter Woodward on September 5, 1861 in Winnebago County. He went on to found Woodward Governor Company. She died in Rockford October 17, 1921.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Amos Walter Woodward
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.77
Amos Walter Woodward
Correspondence
Franklin Woodward
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
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2013.70.76
Nov 18th 63
My Daughter Mary
Accept my thanks for for [sic] your kind letter it was very pleasing after so long time to hear
from you and that darling little boy I really consideably [sic] expected you was [sic] coming to
see us in Sept. as we did not hear from you I flattered myself that you was [sic] coming they
laughed at me when I told them I was expecting you but I kept on expecting you till father said it
was too late in the season
I have thought much of you since I receid [sic] your letter I do hope you are releived [sic] of your
anxiety about your poor brother before this and it is better with him then [sic] your fears, how
many such cases there are who tell the sorrow and suffering of this dreadful war I have often
thought of your brothers when I have heard of the battles that I supposed they would be in. it
troubles me to se [sic] the list of so many of our men prisoners in Richmond suffering as reports
say they do I wonder if Walter sees the name of Neal Don among them and knows he is from
Portland Maine he has been a very noted man in the temperence [sic] cause
Page 2
it [sic] has been reported that the Rebels say he may try his water now with bread and see how he
likes it. I presume Walter has heard him on temperanc[sic] he has been in Winthrop, he is Brig
General, it will be a loss to loose such a man as he has been but not more so then [sic] others. I
presume they think they have a prize.
I was blessed to hear you little boy is geting [sic] long[sic] so finely, should like to see his
picture if I cannot see him and I should like to see his mothers quite as well perhaps his father is
so changed in this long time I should scarcely know him, I intend to send mine to you when we
have a good Artist here, we have one but he is not called good. Could you not stir up Walter to
write oftener [sic] tell him he need not be so pleased with his little son that he must forget how to
write to the home of his birth, how will he do when he has three or four more just as good, he
will not write at all then according as he now writes, but we will hope better of him. I should like
to have you see your sister Priscilla with her little family I went down to see her when her babe
was week old she was geting [sic] long[sic] finely she has writen [sic] since was doing well but
she will have quite a care on her for the present a care that she has no wish to entrust with others
when she can avoid it, by that means she is mostly at home with little ones. Franklin and
Henry’s family are both well I write to you as tho I were acquainted with you hope you will
excuse me and write me again soon Prudentia would have writen [sic] but she is preparing the
[child] to take part in a Levee for the benefit of the Sabbath [school] library, kiss Elmer for his
grandma W and accept some love yourself
from your Mother Woodward
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
2013.70.76
Nov 18th 63
My Daughter Mary
Accept my thanks for for [sic] your kind letter it was very pleasing after so long time to hear from you and that darling little boy I really consideably [sic] expected you was [sic] coming to see us in Sept. as we did not hear from you I flattered myself that you was [sic] coming they laughed at me when I told them I was expecting you but I kept on expecting you till father said it was too late in the season
I have thought much of you since I receid [sic] your letter I do hope you are releived [sic] of your anxiety about your poor brother before this and it is better with him then [sic] your fears, how many such cases there are who tell the sorrow and suffering of this dreadful war I have often thought of your brothers when I have heard of the battles that I supposed they would be in. it troubles me to se [sic] the list of so many of our men prisoners in Richmond suffering as reports say they do I wonder if Walter sees the name of Neal Don among them and knows he is from Portland Maine he has been a very noted man in the temperence [sic] cause
Page 2
it [sic] has been reported that the Rebels say he may try his water now with bread and see how he likes it. I presume Walter has heard him on temperanc[sic] he has been in Winthrop, he is Brig General, it will be a loss to loose such a man as he has been but not more so then [sic] others. I presume they think they have a prize.
I was blessed to hear you little boy is geting [sic] long[sic] so finely, should like to see his picture if I cannot see him and I should like to see his mothers quite as well perhaps his father is so changed in this long time I should scarcely know him, I intend to send mine to you when we have a good Artist here, we have one but he is not called good. Could you not stir up Walter to write oftener [sic] tell him he need not be so pleased with his little son that he must forget how to write to the home of his birth, how will he do when he has three or four more just as good, he will not write at all then according as he now writes, but we will hope better of him. I should like to have you see your sister Priscilla with her little family I went down to see her when her babe was week old she was geting [sic] long[sic] finely she has writen [sic] since was doing well but she will have quite a care on her for the present a care that she has no wish to entrust with others when she can avoid it, by that means she is mostly at home with little ones. Franklin and Henry’s family are both well I write to you as tho I were acquainted with you hope you will excuse me and write me again soon Prudentia would have writen [sic] but she is preparing the [child] to take part in a Levee for the benefit of the Sabbath [school] library, kiss Elmer for his grandma W and accept some love yourself
from your Mother Woodward
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
To Mary Ann Woodward (Sealy) in Rockford, Illinois
from her mother Louisa Sealy (Champion) November 18, 1863 in Winthrop, Maine
Description
An account of the resource
Mary Ann “Mate” Sealy was born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England, on January 29, 1834 to Richard Sealy (born c. 1804 in South Welton, England) and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy (born c. 1803 in Wells, England). His family (including 2 brothers & 1 sister) moved to Rochester, New York around 1843. They later moved to Geneva, NY and final settled in Rockford, IL in 1855. She married Amos Walter Woodward on September 5, 1861 in Winnebago County. He went on to found Woodward Governor. She died in Rockford October 17, 1921.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
November 18, 1863
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Louisa Champion Sealy
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.76
Correspondence
Louisa Champion Sealy
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
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Nancy Ajrylovski
Interviewed 3/6/2008
By Jean Seagers
Midway Village Museum
�Nancy Ajirylovski
Jean Seagers: What is your name?
Nancy Ajrylovski: Nancy Ajirylovski.
JS: And you live where?
NA: In Rockton Illinois.
JS: Are you married?
NA: Yes and I have four kids and three grandkids. I got three girls and one son.
JS: What is your husband's name?
NA: His name is Larry.
JS: What is your occupation?
NA: I am a co-owner with my husband in a restaurant in Rockton. It’s a family restaurant and we
own a business. I run into with my husband and my kids.
JS: What is the name of your restaurant?
NA: Is Ray's Family Restaurant in Rockton.
JS: Where were you educated?
NA: I was educated partly and well mostly in the Chicago area.
JS: Where did you go to school?
NA: I went to grade school in Brian Piccolo and I can't seem to recall the name of my high
school.
JS: So you grew up in Chicago?
NA: Yes I did. Yes I was there I came to the United States when I was seven years old and my
father was here one year before we came to the United States. He came in 1970 and we came in
1971 and we settled in Chicago the Chicago area. It was me my sister, my brother, my mother
and my father.
JS: So your father came a year ahead of you and the rest of you came after?
NA: Yes he came a year ahead of us you had to do that in order to for you to get a visa and to be
legally in this country which we came legally. We got our green cards at the airport.
JS: Where did you come from?
NA: Macedonia, it's formerly Yugoslavia became independent in 1992 and it's a village in
Macedonia.
JS: What's the name of your village?
�NA: It’s called well I was born in Navot. But then when I get married it's [Asamat] so it's just
villages and towns. It's a big huge area there and it covers like here they have towns well there
they call them villages because they're not that big and they don't have what the town offers. We
do have towns but they're more far away from the villages
JS: What did your parents what occupation did they have before they came here?
NA: They were farmers mostly like tobacco and apples. My father was he had his own apple
orchards and that was his commodity. My mother she did the house chores and tobacco,
tobacco fields and my grandparents the same. My uncles, my aunts mostly it was that and just
regular farming wheat.
JS: Do you remember much about growing up?
NA: Yes I do actually I do remember. I was still fairly young but I went to school there a year and
it's a lot of hard work there. I mean you know people don't realize how they used to struggle to
get what people here have to work one week. There they have to work six months so you know
as you can imagine. They work actually all summer long to make ends meet in the winter to get
through the winter and the summer. They would have to work all summer long.
JS: Did they sell their produce?
NA: They sell their produce yes. They sell tobacco. They sell actually mushrooms. Their apple
orchards grapes nowadays actually it's less than that it's mostly apples but people try to go
fishing. Everybody has their own fishing there and they have people who come in and will buy
the fresh fish. They would have to clean them and everything. Now that's how the people are
doing their business. It’s is still the apples are doing big-time.
JS: That's their main crop there?
NA: Actually Winston factory is in one of our big cities there of tobacco, Winston for cigarettes
yeah. It’s one of our biggest factories. It is about an hour and a half away from our villages so it
employs a lot of people and that's why people are still doing tobacco even though you know it's a
very hard job but they get good money for it.
JS: What made your parents want to come to the United States?
NA: I think because of the way they were living there you know working very hard like they didn't
grow up with everything like they had to work for it and the commodity there wasn't so great. It
was a hard way of living. It was hard times they went through the good times, the bad times.
JS: That’s a big decision to decide to leave your own country.
NA: It is a really big decision and at the time like everybody was doing it. Like my uncles they
came here first before my father did and it was extremely hard for them because they had to
leave their home but they worked so hard for to build and they had their farmland so they had to
actually you know shut everything down, their house because you don't rent it there you know
there's nobody to rent there. Some people used to have actually to rent the fields for tobacco or
they would rent the fields for the apples. Like say my father had those beautiful apple orchards
and he would rent them to people so they could work them so they won't go to waste but now as
time grew the people there you know have either passed away or moved on you know to different
areas like maybe America. It was just a way of life and they knew that when they came to the
states they would you know they would work hard and make a living.
�JS: So you say some of his brothers were here already?
NA: His brothers were here already two years prior to one of them I think in 1965 if I am not
mistaken. He came and he was the first one and then my uncle came a year before my dad did
and then when they all got together they actually decided to buy a house which was a three-story
home. So they all lived in the same house while everybody had their own apartment and they all
bought it together and my father was here like just one year and he ended up buying a house with
his brothers and so he was working three jobs you know going from one job to the other because
he wanted to bring his family here so he worked very hard for what he achieved. I mean
everybody works hard don't get me wrong. It is right now you know people have a lot more
easier than they did when they first came into America.
JA: What did your father do in the United States?
NA: Well when he first came he used to work at restaurants washing dishes. He had three
dishwashing jobs that he did in and from then on he moved and he was working for Schwinn
Bicycle actually. He worked there for I think like nine years and then we went to Europe and he
kind of lost that job because he stayed on more than he could have. They kind of like let them go
because he did not come back in time. So then he would just do you know odd jobs here and
there.
JS: So you moved back to Europe?
NA: No we just went there in like 1979. My brother got married there and we went there and it
was because you know you can't just go there for one week and then just come back. You know
we had to reopen our house. We had to do a lot of things and it took more time than necessary
and we all went but then when he came back he lost his job and my mother used to work for
Zenith Television she worked there for seven years and when her mother passed away which she
was in Europe and then when she came back she lost her job because of it too. Yeah because
you only have a few weeks or more like a vacation time and if you're not back within those few
weeks then you lose your job and you know it's understandable.
JS: So what did they do they both lost their jobs?
NA: Yeah then my father went back and did you know odd jobs here and there. He would work in
restaurants and my mother got another factory job and she was there for a long time. My father
he just did odd jobs here and there. He still made the money. He was a saver and he was a
worker and my brother works since he was 14. He was a busboy and then he started to be a
cook and he was a cook for even today. So he started out young and then eventually my brother
got his own restaurant in Chicago and then my father used to work with him and my sister she
was young she got married. I was still young. I was in school and I worked for a while and then I
got married and then came to Rockford.
JS: Had your father and mother ever been in this country before they came here?
NA: No, no.
JS: Your mother was born in?
NA: Everybody yeah we were born, my siblings and I was born there, my mother and my father
my uncles everybody was born in Macedonia.
JS: So you and your how many siblings?
NA: Me, my brother and my sister.
�JS: Three siblings? So you were in Chicago from the time you?
NA: From 1971 to 1982 by the time I got married. So I was actually raised in Chicago and then I
moved to the suburbs of Chicago when I got married which was 1982 and then we were there
until 1999 when we moved to Rockford and we moved to Rockford to buy a restaurant and we've
been here ever since.
JS: When you arrived in this country you flew here?
NA: We flew into O'Hare Airport. Yes it was quite the experience.
JS: What was it like?
NA: It was amazing because growing up in a village we had no television. We only had a radio so
we had no outside sources really. We never really went anywhere. My parents could not afford to
take us anywhere like trips or they were just hard-working farm people. My father used to go sell
apples in Sarajevo and Bosnia and Zagreb and Kosovo and all those big huge areas there where
people would buy apples. It's not as if you're going to go to you know like someone's going to
come in and buy them all. You have to go and sell them yourself and he went all over there and
then he was in the Army I'm not sure. I really haven't even talked to him because he's passed
away like 18 years. I know my uncle was and I’ve seen pictures of him in a uniform so I never
really got to talk to him about it but he had a lot of stories that's for sure.
JS: Now when you came to the United States do you remember how you reacted when you
landed?
NA: Yes I actually do. I seen a lot of lights. I’m the kind of person I'm very curious. I’m not just
you know like take it in stride. I'm very curious and you know I want all of the details and we
stopped at the airport and our flight was delayed and my uncle had already come. He was waiting
for us at the airport but because our flight was delayed he went home and so then he came as I
vaguely remember it was like 2 a.m. in the morning and we didn't know where to go. My mother
we never knew English none of us and me like the kind of person that I am I am like I want to
know everything and very nosy and when it comes to that stuff. I'm not nosy like gossip nosy and
we had a telephone number which was my uncle’s telephone number and my father where he
used to say because him and my father were waiting for us but then they left. So than out of
curiosity you know how are we going to get home we were there and nobody was there to greet
us. So then you know like you see this telephone and you've never really seen a telephone in
your life but like here and there you stuff. So then there was this guy there and I think I was like
seven years old but I was the kind of like I don't just sit back and just stay there you know. So
then I went and I asked I remember to this day it's so weird I asked this guy and I gave him the
telephone number because I don't know how to dial a telephone you know you have to put money
in there and I never knew you had to do anything like that so the guy was very kind enough and
he put in a quarter there, dialed the number for me because I gave him the telephone number
that I had written on a piece of paper. My mother had actually and I took it from her and we gave
it to the guy and he called for us at home and then they answered and then they came and picked
us up and when we drove home it was the middle of the night so all you see is lights. It was
amazing. I had never seen so many lights and so many roads in our life. You just see like regular
roads one-sided you don't see all these highways and stuff and we saw them back home you
know when we went to the airport because it's like a 2 1/2 hour drive from where we are at it but it
was a small airport was nothing like O'Hare or anything.
JS: What about when you went to the grocery stores and that it must have been an entirely
different...
NA: Yeah it was because there in our villages they used to have bazaars in the big cities you
know in the small cities the big cities whatever and you go like once a week and you get your stuff
�that you need to make food all week long because there they home cooked three meals a day
ahead. So it was kind of interesting. I don't really vaguely remember like my first day going to the
grocery store or whatever but I remember going later on and how much like a loaf of bread was it
was like $.25 you know we get a loaf of bread and we got to buy sacks of flour. You had to like I
went to school when I came here so I knew more than my mother let’s say. So I would help my
mother when we go shopping and I would count the money for her. She didn't know English.
JS: Neither one of them knew any English?
NA: No nothing we didn't know English at all. I went to school they signed me up and I was
supposed to be in first grade but because I did not know English so they put me back in
kindergarten for a while for about six months I would say and then I went to first grade and I
picked up English fluently within six months.
JS: You were young enough.
NA: I was young enough where you pick up more and my brother he had a little bit harder of a
time picking it up because he was a lot older than me and my sister even more because she was
about 14 when she came here so she it was harder for her to pick up the language than I did and
then I went from first grade I went to second grade and I didn't go to third grade they skipped third
grade on me so I went straight to fourth grade because I was too good to be in third grade.
Because I picked up right away and I would you know let's just say I was the type where I wanted
to achieve and learn fast.
JS: Did your parents speak which language?
NA: They spoke Albanian, Albanian and Macedonian they spoke but mostly because we are
Albanian they spoke mostly Albanian.
JS: In the home?
NA: Yes in the home.
JS: And do you still speak it?
NA: Oh yes, yes I do and my kids do.
JS: So you said your mother stayed at home she didn't work anymore?
NA: No actually she did work yes. She worked in another factory she then and she even worked
in a factory when my brother got the restaurant in Chicago and my father used to work with him
and help them out.
JS: Does your brother still own a restaurant?
NA: Yes he does actually but he's here in Machesney Park.
JS: Which restaurant is it?
NA: It’s Hogsview Family Restaurant, yes in Machesney Park and actually he owned the
restaurants that I have right now before I did.
JS: You said you lived in the Chicago area or did you live in Chicago?
NA: I actually lived northwest of Chicago is it northwest? It is out by Pulaski and Grand Avenue
and North Avenue in the city of Chicago yes.
�JS: What was your home life like?
NA: Home life here?
JS: When you were growing up.
NA: When I was growing up in Chicago it was pretty fair I guess I would say. My father he was
old-fashioned so you know he was very strict with us very strict and we didn't have all these little
toys and all these things that kids nowadays have. We were limited. We didn't have that much
money. My father was a saver if he could afford it he would buy it if he couldn't he wouldn't. He
tried to make life comfortable for us. We had a home, we had clothes you know we had food on
the table every day and it was good. I had my aunts around me. I had my uncles; I had my
cousins and we grew up in an environment which is actually really well because everybody
around us was either Albanian or Italian or Polish and I mean there was all kinds you know from
all over people in that area and people like used to know everybody. They used to be friendly.
They used to say hi when you walked down the street. They knew your name. They knew
whose kid you were. It was a different environment than it is let's say like now people are
growing up sometimes you don't get to see your neighbors at all. You could live in a
neighborhood like 20 years and you don't even know who the person on the next block is and
when we were growing up everybody knew everybody for like blocks and blocks away because it
was all one big community and you were not scared to play outside or you were not scared to so
it was pretty good and at it was very nice childhood.
JS: It wasn't just Albanians then that were in the neighborhood?
NA: No it was all kinds as I said Italian's, Polish, Americans that had been here for the longest
time.
JS: Did you continue to live in that house that had the three stories?
NA: We did for a while and then my uncles decided that they want to move so then they moved
about 15 or 20 miles away and then my father stayed in the same .We just went to like a big
apartment complex and then after I got married then they bought a house in more like a
northwest part of Chicago because the area was getting a little bit it wasn't the same as when I
came here so then he moved there and then little by little and they moved just further west.
JS: Did you parents speak English before they came?
NA: No
JS: So your father picked it up?
NA: Yeah my father picked it up. He wasn't fluent but he understood and he understood.
JS: How about your mom?
NA: No less even today she's not fluent I think it was hard for her to pick it up and when you don't
use it like where she used to work in the factory you don't really mingle that much you just do
your job and the only break you have is when you eat you lunch or have a 10 minute break so
conversing with anybody it's kind of rough.
JS: Is she still living then?
NA: Yes she lives in Roscoe with my brother.
JS: How old is she?
�NA: She is 75.
JS: Did they encourage you to speak English in the home?
NA: Actually in the home we never spoke English because nobody understood it. You know my
parents didn't understand it. Even with my father he did not say like don't speak it because he
knew we had to learn it and as I said I learned it really fast so me and my cousins were always
speaking it because it was easier for us to speak English and then at home we would always use
Albanian even today.
JS: In the neighborhood?
NA: In the neighborhood it was you know I had friends and we would mostly speak English but
then again we would use of the Albanian language at times too and even today like you know I
have kids and they grew up in an environment where we spoke both languages so my kids grew
up speaking both languages.
JS: They comfortable in either language?
NA: They are comfortable in either language. They understand either language perfectly. They
adapted to it because that's the way they grew up. My in-laws live with us so and they're not
fluent. They understand really well English and it's just like speaking it is not easy for them even
though they've been here for so many years.
JS: But they do speak English?
NA: Yes it's just a little bit less let's say they've been here such a long time you would think they
would know it fluently but they don't because of the jobs that they have done in the past and it's
different now you have like the kids who grew up that came from there like when they were small
you know you have Sesame Street and I knew a girl who was in her 20s and she came here and
she got married and she did not know one thing to say in English and she learned fluent English
within a year because she never worked because her husband was working at a time and just
buy the TV and just watching TV and watching Sesame Street and she learned English.
JS: How much school did your parents complete?
NA: I’m not sure about that but I don't think it was if any school at all really then as I said back
then it was hard times for them they did not have time for school they went as soon as they grew
up they went into the fields.
JS: What do you think is their attitude about school and about education did they wish that for
your children?
NA: Not really because I think the way they were raised and brought up and the way they dealt in
life that education to them – I think work came before education because that was the way they
were brought up that was what they knew but in my opinion education to me is very important
why because without education you can do nothing in this world so I always pushed my kids to go
better for themselves or finish high school and do well in school for their benefit not for mine and
for me I did not finish high school. I did not complete it because the time when I was in Chicago
growing up there was a lot you know you had to walk to school there was no transportation you
had no busses. Your parents were working all the time. My father did not even own a car so you
were out of luck there you had to walk six or seven blocks to school no matter if it's freezing rain
or whether it’s 100° weather you walked and it was getting to the point where the schools were
getting really bad, a lot of gangs in public schools violence and all that stuff. My father goes I'm
not going to risk your life for education. He goes if you have common sense you can make it in
this world and he was right because here I am today owning a business. I was very good in
�school but that throws me back I think that's why I'm so hard on my kids for school because I was
really good in school and I had to quit at a young age. I didn't go I didn't achieve what I wanted to
achieve in my life as far as school is concerned because I think if I went I went the whole way I
would have probably known more maybe not who knows. I've known people who have college
educations and they've asked me stuff that I knew and they didn't.
JA: You could go back whenever you want to probably.
NA: Yeah actually you know I could have everybody could do a lot of things here in America that
once they stop doing it they can go back and do the same what they wanted to achieve in life and
I'm still young who knows maybe I'll go back and get my college degree. If I put my mind to it I
think I could do it but running a business is kind of hard you're there like 14 hour days and
sometimes 16 hour days and you don't have time for your family let alone to go to school but
when the kids are all grown up and out of high school or college.
JS: Your children are how old?
NA: I have one he’s a senior now he's going to graduate this year from high school Hononegah
High School he's my youngest son and my other ones are already out of school. Two are married
and one is going to be married in October so I just have my son with me and he at first did not like
school that much, a typical boy wanted to have fun in school but now he realizes like I said you
have to push them a little bit into that category when they don't think that it's right.
JS: Is he going to continue?
NA: Yes definitely if I have anything to say about it he will.
JS: Where you go to church or do you go to church?
NA: We have our mosque. We don't go like every week or every Sunday. We have our mosque
that’s in Brookfield Illinois. We have like a membership there. We have sometimes our parties
there whatever you want to have twice a year they throw big parties and we go there but it's not
like we go to church every you know.
JS: What is your religion?
NA: Muslim
JS: Did your children go to any type of Saturday classes.
NA: No, no they never went.
JS: Did you?
NA: No actually I did not, no. Although there was there was Sunday Schools to teach our kids.
They went for awhile for three years and then it wasn't funded very good so they missed it they
don't do it anymore so.
JS: What was your first job?
NA: I worked at a place called toys Milton Bradley in Chicago and then I got after that...
JS: How old were you?
NA: Actually right before I got married I was 17 almost 18.
�JS: Did your parents that was okay with them?
NA: Oh yes.
JS: What other kinds of work have you done?
NA: Mostly restaurant work actually after that then I got married and then I worked in a restaurant
and I've been in it ever since.
JS: Where did you meet your husband?
NA: I met him at a restaurant, my uncle’s restaurant. He was actually my mom's first cousin. We
went there and he was there. I was young and he was still young so we just let it go off for a
while and then we saw each other somewhere else and then one thing led to another and then it
clicked so it's kind of funny now here we meet at a restaurant and we own a restaurant now.
JS: That's your life.
NA: Yeah that's our life. It's very hard work but it's not mostly like hard work hard work it’s just
the time. It's a lot of time; we put a lot of time and effort into it. You have to give it 110% no matter
what if you've come here let's say like yesterday and if you came here 30 years ago you have to
give it 110% or you won't make it in life and you got to work at it. I know people that have come
here like let’s say like 10 years ago or 15 years ago they come here with nothing starting from
scratch from Macedonia and they're well-off now. They have their own homes. They have their
kids. They work and to better themselves here and they go back I've gone back three times to
Macedonia. It’s a beautiful country and we have a house there. We built a home there about 10
years ago. My in-laws go back every year and they’re older now you know they don't have to
work. My father-in-law's been retired for about 10 years and he goes back with his wife just as
long as they can do it they have to make do on their own over there and I would love to go as
visiting even my in-laws you know how they were born and raised there and they came here
when they were in their 30s and they don't want to live there. They just go for the summer. This is
their home; this is all they've known.
JS: Your husband’s from the same area?
NA: Yes and for me to go live there and say yes I would live there. No I would not you know this
is my home here in America. When I was seven I came here so I've been here all my life most of
my life you know and this is it this is where all my kids are and my grandkids.
JS: When you were growing up who were your friends were they kids that...
NA: They were mostly Albanian kids Albanian and a few Italians that were in the neighborhood
that we used to play with but I had my cousins and friends that weren't my cousins that were
Albanian.
JS: When you come to Rockford have you branched out or are there other friends or do you stay
with your family group?
NA: I stay with my family group because the only time you get to see your friends is like at an
event that we have like once a year. Actually we celebrate the first person who came to America
every April.
JS: The first Albanian?
NA: The first Albanian, we started celebrating when it was 90 years that was about 15 years ago
and we started celebrating.
�JS: And who was that?
NA: That’s a good question. I wish I had the name for you. I should've gotten the name we
celebrate him and I never even got someone even wrote a book about him and we celebrate
every April the year that this guy came into America and that's how everybody started coming to
America because of this one guy.
JS: Where did he go to?
NA: I think he was in New York if I'm not mistaken he's still he was an immigrant in New York so
then for the past 15 years we've been celebrating all the our main area is called Prasba(?) that's
where all the villages are so he was the first man from Prasba(?) to come to America and one guy
got into his history and what he did here what he achieved in America and then he wrote a book
about him.
JS: Did he achieve quite a bit?
NA: Yes he did and I wish I had the book. It is good to celebrate something like that because look
where it's gotten us. I think if everybody that was here in America if they were not here and they
were there today in today's standards people would not have they would probably have less than
they do you know 30 years ago because there's not enough to go around. This way when people
immigrated to like America or Australia or Denmark or Sweden or wherever Canada because
they're all over they gave leeway to the other people that were there to make a better life for
themselves because when you have five people going south to the same thing and when you
have 20 it's a different story those five people will at least make the money instead of 20 so
whether it be crops whether it be anything. So I think it worked out for both for best worlds us
coming here making a life for ourselves and them the people that stayed there to make a better
living for themselves because of giving them an opportunity to have that chance to do better than
if everybody was there. They would not have achieved stuff that they have now or for that matter
us here let's say a person is here and they have a family there if they send them like $100 a year
it'll go a long way over there and that's what they used to do before people would come here.
JS: Did your parents do that?
NA: My parents we had my grandmother living she was still there so yes they would send her
money to live on and then she came here and stayed here for awhile and then she passed away
so but as far as that's concerned that's the only one because everybody was here.
JS: Going back to your neighborhood you said it was a very ethnic neighborhood?
NA: Ethnic yes.
JS: Was there fighting among the different nationalities?
NA: No, no that's amazing to me like in this day neighbors don't care about other neighbors there
let's say you gather around once a week you know whether it be Albanians or Italians or whoever
it was sometimes you would have groups you know like picnics or whatever. Sometimes the
whole neighborhood would do something. People there they were different I think because they
lived so poorly in the old country and then when they came here they had all these good things
like running water. We didn't have running water at home when I was growing up we didn't have
no running water. We didn't have a bathroom inside we had outhouses. Still today there's no
heated they have no natural gas there so everything is electric. They used to have wood burning
stoves to keep them warm and when they came to the states you have all these different
elements that you never had before so they were so appreciative of everything you know. They
appreciated what they had here because they did not have it there that's why my kids they went
five years ago we went on vacation about almost 6 years ago and they kind of knew because I
�would talk to them about it about how people used to live there and how poor it was. They didn't
have no telephones, no televisions, no running water, no heated rooms you know you heat the
room with one big stove and so they kind of new and like when they went there and seen how
these people still today in this day and age live poor people that are still well off but still don't
have any stuff in their house that they do here. So then my kids appreciate a lot more America
than they ever did before they went there but my kids also like to go back there and visit. My
daughter was there last year again and my son might go this year again so you know they
appreciate their culture where their parents are from but as I said here in America like my mom
and my dad when they came here or my uncles or my siblings or my cousins for them to work
three jobs it was nothing whether it be for my father or my uncle's work three jobs ,my father-inlaw worked three jobs his wife she worked hard to took care of the family that's why I think they
appreciated it because it did not bother them to work those three jobs because to work that kind
of work for them there was nothing compared to what kind of work they did back home at least
they got a paycheck every week you know. There you have to work six months before you got
anything for it yes it is hard work and that's why I think that in that day and age even like Italians
are Polish people that immigrated from all over they were all hard workers. They have a lot of
respect that's what the key thing here is they had a lot of respect for one other they came from
the same type of area there and they all had suffered in the past trying to make a living in keeping
their family intact
JS: There was no real fighting like gangs or the kids?
NA: No, no, no, no not whatsoever none of that stuff.
JS: So where did your friends originate from school or your neighborhood?
NA: The neighborhood mostly I had one or two kids from school but because my neighborhood
had so many people my age that I just stuck start to you know because like I said my father was
strict he did not let me go wherever I wanted to go especially females you know because you
have to be more strict with them even my brother he was a little older but he would not he had to
be home in a certain time and he had to work at a certain time but the neighborhood was great I
still remember it to this day
How do you feel your parents accepted American culture?
NA: American culture I don't know if they really did not accept it or accept it?
JS: Were they open to new ways of doing things?
NA: Well they had to be because their kids were growing up they were getting married they had
to do different things but they still had their own culture and traditions even to this day we do the
traditions
JS: What kind of traditions do you do?
NA: have weddings. Weddings are our biggest traditions. We do a lot of things for weddings. We
spend a lot of money that's for sure .Our weddings last about a week starting from the day you
let's say a Sunday is the wedding and the reception that Sunday you would start it off and then
you go on from there but mostly because everybody works so much you know the hours are so
expandable that you can't really go whenever you want. Everybody has businesses or everybody
has a job so it's less than what they did back home in the old country but we just you know we
still try to keep the traditional things a little bit but it's less but it's more if you know what I mean.
We make it more of what we have because we are we have more money to make it with but as I
said we have our big dinners, dinner parties before the actual ceremony. We have the ceremony
at home in the afternoon and then we have a big reception at the reception area. The bride gets
a lot of gifts from the groom's family bearing gifts yes we still do that. There's a lot of traditions
that we have two big huge holidays that we celebrate which is the fasting month of Ramadan.
�even though I was raised here I still fast the whole month and then we have a big holiday after
that where you get all your family together and you make a big lunch or you make a big dinner
whatever is convenient and then two months after the first holiday you have another one which is
based on the first one prior to that. It called [Biram ]. They're both called [ Biram]. And it's a
celebration you know you fast whoever can do it. I've done it since I was 12 so to me not doing it
would be.
JS: And it's not eating up until sunset?
NA: From sun up to sundown and so you know that's one good thing that we do have still the
traditional. I don't know if my kids will keep doing it like I did or their kids.
JS: Or your husband?
NA: No, my husband never does it anyway. You know you can't smoke when you do that and
he's a smoker so it's pretty hard for him.
JS: Did you ever disagree with your parents about something you wanted to do like going
somewhere or what you would wear?
NA: Oh yes I was not like as I said I was the youngest so I was more adapted to the way of
American living where my brother and sister were a lot older than me so they were more into the
whatever says goes. I was the kind of person where I was more Americanized I would say yes. I
would try to talk my father like this is the right way you're doing it the way they did 30 years ago. I
would always try to make him see my point of view when I was growing up but my father was my
father. If he said no it was no you don't argue too much with him. He had a lot of respect from
everybody because he was straightforward whatever he would say in front of you he would never
talk behind your back.
JS: You didn't get away with a lot then?
NA: No we had to be very you know but he taught me one good thing though he taught me how
to what there is out of life what you can do out of life if you put your mind to it and what you can
become if you either this way or that way the wrong way or the right way you choose. He taught
us a lot of things about that. He taught us about being appreciative of what we have. He taught
us about saving, saving money not just going from paycheck to paycheck. You find a penny on
the floor pick it up that Penny becomes a dollar soon. He was like that and I think everybody that
came from back there was the same but my father was a little bit different. Where my uncles were
more mellow and they were more mellow they were not as hard driven as my father was.
JS: Did you ever disagree with them both of your parents I should say about things that you
wanted to do?
NA: Oh yes of course of course.
JS: Were you ever embarrassed by them that they were different?
NA: No, no because that's the one good thing about America everybody can be different and
nobody will judge you.
JS: Nobody ever picked on you for being different?
NA: No because I knew how to talk English. I would dress accordingly to what I was. My father
did not let us wear shorts. He did not let us for me and my sister wear straps. He did not let us
wear makeup actually he loved my long hair and when I cut it he kind of got mad but I cut it to
spite him. I think that's the only thing I did that was actually disapproving to him. I had really long
�beautiful hair and I was so sick of it and I was the kind of person where I took sometimes I would
dare myself to do it and I went and I cut my hair. I didn't ask him because he would have said no
anyway.
JS: How old were you?
JA: I was I think like 13 or 14 and when I did it that was the thing but as you say we were never
like really different from anybody like if you see us walking down the street you would never know
that we were immigrants. My mother used to dress a little bit like according to how she knew how
to dress from back home.
JA: Were there any superstitions or traditions that they hung onto from the other country and
brought to this country?
NA: Yes even to this day people have superstitions and traditions like we hold onto them. Like on
Fridays is our holy day. Every Friday the men go to church here even to this day the people that
can and then they have like our mosque not the church but the mosque every from like noon to
one they go and pray.
JS: Are there mosques in Rockford?
NA: There is one in Rockford yes; there is one in Rockford to which they go and one in Chicago.
So between 12 and one in that period you can't boil water you can't cook anything on the stove,
you cannot wash clothes, you can't clean the house. It is nice for you to just sit and enjoy just
quiet time pray, if you're in the praying field whatever and back home we still do that and here
also and Tuesday's we don't wash clothes. Tuesdays it’s a the thing where way back when I don't
know we still hold to those traditions superstitions. I mean no big deal though stuff that we kind of
got implanted in that because when an older person tells you well this so and so did this and then
something happened to them and they were not supposed to be doing it at that time and so it kind
of sticks to you.
JS: Do your children observe these too?
NA: Kind of because I'm doing it you know because my father and my mother and my in-laws are
doing it and it sticks to them also, not washing clothes or cleaning on our holy day on Friday in
the noon between that time and because you hear stories like I said and then you can say well
I'm not going to do that because bad luck or something so I think that's what it is no big major
stuff like traditional. They still some of them still have old wives tales you know my grandmother
used to fix broken bones like no doctor or nothing because they didn't have no doctors back then.
So everybody had their own medicine that they would do and they would be fine. She used to fix
broken elbows, any kind of broken ankles whatever she used to go in there and fix them like a
regular doctor. Within two weeks you were fine and she practiced this when she was in Europe
and then she still had it in her where one time I remember somebody had having a broken foot
and she came and it was a sprain not broken and put like she would use soap and egg white and
make it into like a cast and use paper, brown paper bags and spread it on that and put the cast
on there, leave it for two weeks but she would like set it though. She knew where it was it was
amazing. She knew where the bone was, how it was broken she would set it and then she would
hold it in that position and then she would say okay don't move and then she put a cast on their
and it would be good as new and so many other people have like old wives things where they
didn't have no doctors or anything. My grandmother was a midwife for so many people that were
born so many kids in Europe.
JS: Once you came to this country did your parents think that it was important that you
remember your roots; did they encourage that?
�NA: Oh yes, yes they did which I still do to my kids today.
JS: You were curious you wanted to know?
NA: Oh yes, yes I'm still learning actually. I still don't know you know I think when I'm a little bit
older and I have more time because you know when you have kids and you work constantly and
you have your growing up and you're raising your kids and your trying to take care of your family
and working at the same time you don't have any time to dwell on that kind of stuff but I think
when I'm older I’m going to be more like go into more how my cultures are and my religion
because there are so many different types of Muslim religions. Thank God that we are the kind
that we are because we don't believe in like suicide. We don't believe in killing somebody only in
self defense which is natural that everybody. We don't believe in hurting anybody if they don't
hurt you so you know it's different and we have good beliefs and bad beliefs just like everybody
other religions do and I respect every religion. We are in a place where you have to respect other
religions here in order to survive and even back home that's what they fight about. They fight
about land; they fight about religion everywhere it's like that.
JS: So did your parents ever go back home?
NA: Yes they built a house there.
JS: Oh your parents built a house?
NA: Yes no this is my like right now when we were married we built a home but my parents have
another house in their village. They built that about like 20 some years ago.
JS: Doe someone live in it?
NA: No they just go like every year like sometimes every other year. Nobody lives there they just
built it to have when they go back when they go back to visit like not to live there.
JS: Did your parents or even you I guess you were quite young but did your siblings keep in
contact with any friends?
NA: No, no because you know why actually they kept in touch because they're here. Most of my
relatives my distant cousins some that I don't even really we don't keep in touch because I was so
young to begin with when I came here but if I go back home I would ask you know who's this and
who's this. I would be curious as to know who they are from the village you know who these
people are because they're so scattered all over but the main thing around this area around the
Chicago area the Illinois area that there's a lot of people from my own village that I grew up with
or that my sister grew up with in the same so we are always doing events that or if you go for
coffee somewhere that person will be there you would see them. So yeah we do keep in touch a
lot.
JS: Now what brought you to Rockford?
NA: Business buying, buying a business, owning a restaurant. Me and my husband had both
been in the restaurant business most of our lives and it was a good opportunity for us for us and
our kids to work in an environment with with your lets say your family and to have an open mind
about the future like how they would perceive the future knowing that this is the kind of job do you
want to work this kind of job or you don't. You have a choice go better yourself to do something
but don't get me wrong the restaurant business is very hard work and it not just physical. I'm not
talking about physical that's nothing it's more mental work it's a lot of mental work. You work with
the public every day. A person that works with the public everyday they have to have the
�personality for it and they have to have the time for it. If you don't have those two don't bother
you know I've been in this business for 20 some years.
JS: Did you find the people of Rockton were receptive to you being here?
NA: Oh god yes. I mean this is so amazing we're different areas that you live how the people
change like when I was growing up in Chicago there were different people as I said you know our
community it was based on that and then when I moved to the suburbs of Chicago people were
different. Like everybody has their own category some people could be friendlier than others.
Some people are more to themselves then others but here in Rockton the first time I came it's
different people here are more relaxed. They could be millionaires that come to my restaurant
and you would never know that they're millionaires because they don't present themselves like
that. They're just human beings. They're very sincere people they're very down to earth. I don't
know at first the first time I came here we just hit it off really good and I have regular customers
that have been coming here since I had it since my brothers had it.
JS: And what year was that?
NA: 1999, it'll be nine years it's been nine years since we had it and the people here are just
different and the area alone itself it's not like I'm really busy, busy where you have to have your
mind always sharp like who's going to hit you from behind or that kind even though it was the
suburbs that I was growing that I was in like nine years ago but now if I go when I go back to visit
my friends or relatives it's too combusted for me. I hit the clock tower there you know by the
highway and it’s just so serene and relaxing and I go like wow this is so great you know. And at
first my kids had kind of a hard time with it because living growing up in the same area like they
did and then moving here was a whole different ballgame for them but they adapted really well
and now they love it here to.
JS: Do they all live in the area?
NA: My daughter that’s married she has three little girls she lives in Loves Park and my other
daughter she lives in Orland Park but she's in Arizona for a little while and my other daughter
lives with me and my son lives with me and that's one tradition that I have to tell you though my
son will always live with me. One son if you have one son they have to take care of their parents.
We take care of the parents the in-laws until they die. We don't put them through nursing homes.
We don't have hospice. If the time came that I would have to stay home and take care of my
husband's parents then I would have to we don't you know that's our culture. We don't change
our culture and my son is instilled into that so he knows what's coming in the future that when we
get old and we cannot take care of ourselves that he will have to take care of us. We don’t go to
nursing homes. It's in or you know that won't change unless it has happened before where they
have they have put their parents I mean thank God for nursing homes I tell you. Thank God that
there are nursing homes and that people are taken care of because everybody doesn't have kids
or whoever can take care of them or they don't want to you know. We just grew up into that
environment knowing that we do and it's just natural to us and it's natural even to my kids.
JS: He knows anyway?
NA: Yes he knows that. I mean they're going to have their own life I'm not going to.
JS: You won’t live with them until you can't live?
NA: Right until I can take care of myself I'll be fine.
JS: Would you ever consider leaving this country to go back to Macedonia?
�NA: No, no.
JS: Do you think your children would?
NA: No, no definitely not as I said it's a great place to visit but yes it's just too much of good things
here that even though it's a beautiful place there too. I mean you have everything there that you
have here now but it's still different even my in-laws as I said they were like raised there when
they were in their 30s but they still don't they don't even want go back and live there let alone me
and my kids you know.
JS: And your children are mostly in the same type of work as you?
NA: Yes my daughter works. She went to high school. She finished high school; she went to two
years of college. She went for CNA now she's going to get married so where she will go from
there what she wants to do but she loves waitressing. She loves working in the business. She
has you know she was instilled with it since she was young she would come over there and see
me work and she loves working with people. She loves what she does so it's up to her what she
wants to do in the future.
JS: What do you hope for for your children for the future?
NA: I hope first of all to be healthy you know that's my main goal for them to be healthy and for
them to be happy in what they're doing and basically just not how do I put it, be greedy of what
you have in life be thankful for what you have in life because so many people out there don't have
not even half of what people here in America have and if you want to get a job you want to
achieve there is always a job in America. No matter what you do you go out there do the snow,
you go out there do the lawn. Whether you start young, whether you start old there's always
something to do. There are always jobs available here if you really want to achieve something in
your life or if you want to make it in your life.
JS: Opportunities.
NA: Opportunities yes and I think I've instilled that in them that we’re very lucky to be where we
are at today in America and my parents I thank them for bringing us to this environment because
who knows we could've been there as they're growing up and getting married and having kids
over there. We would not have the stuff that we have here it would be a lot different and that's
why I appreciate every little thing that's in my way or that's why I never complain about working so
hard because so many people have it so much harder and I think that's the key. You appreciate
what you have you wake up in the morning you go to sleep you thank God that your kids are
healthy that you're healthy that you're able to work able to provide for your family and that you're
healthy to do it that's the main thing.
JS: One last question how do you feel about the current debate in this country about immigration
and immigrants coming in legal and illegal?
NA: I think there's a lot of them that are here probably illegally and thank God that we never had
to go through that route. I feel bad for the people who want to come here to make a better life for
themselves because as I said wherever they are they're not happy they're not living and they
want to make a better life for themselves for their family here or wherever it is nobody's actually
like everybody comes from somewhere here in America. So you can say that we're all
immigrants here because Columbus came do you know what I'm saying. Nobody was ever here
except for the Indians so we’re all sort of immigrants here even know it's our ancestors or
whatever. I think in some areas they have to be really strict as far as now with all these threats
and stuff like that that's happening. In some areas they are actually really strict right now than
they ever were. It's harder now to get a visa to come into America than it was 30 years ago or 20
years ago.
�JS: Do you think it should be?
NA: I think it should be because let's say like in the past I've known some people they wanted to
come here to marry off their daughter or their son for example and they have a home over there,
they have kids over there and they're going to school still that nobody can take care of them but
them and they gave them a hard time with it just knowing that they wanted to come here for two
weeks just to marry off their child and go back home because they have kids there, they have a
family there, they have a home there. They know somebody has to take care of them take care
of their house and that sometimes I don't understand if you show them all this proof that you still
have family there or still have your kids there and you just want to come for two weeks and do
this and then go back which you know you have to fight really hard for it. Some people have it
really easy they get it right away from our country it's not really that bad from before though now
it's a little bit harder yeah you have to really work at it and you really have to show a lot of proof
that you're responsible for that person. You know that person does wrong then you're
responsible for it so I don't know I go back either way. I feel bad for the people who that want to
come in here to make a better life for themselves. It's a big country it's held us for this long.
There's plenty of land then again I don't think the people that are illegal here that go and do illegal
stuff here as far as robbing and doing wrong and killing people and causing accidents and driving
drunk you know the illegal people that are doing that that are not even supposed to be in this
country and they're taking advantage of it. They don't appreciate it is what I'm trying to get to you.
You're here in this country and you're doing all these things and you're not appreciating it like why
you're here. You're not here to cause trouble. You're not here to hurt anybody. You're here to do
better for your family and that kind of gets to me when they're here and they go behind that wheel
without no license with being drunk or being high.
JS: What should they do with them?
NA: I think they should deport them to my knowledge. It could be any I'm not saying it could be
like one it could be Mexicans or it could be Arabians or I mean anything you know from all over
I'm just saying like you[re in this country you come here to work and better for yourselves and you
take advantage of it and you keep intact with your family and you steer clear of the troubles
because somebody else that deserves to come in this country legally didn't and your in this place
and you make the best of it and they don't and that drives me crazy because so many people get
hurt.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seagers
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Nancy Ajrylovski
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Nancy Ajrylovski
Description
An account of the resource
Nancy Ajrlovski immigrated to the United States from Macedonia in 1971. She came to the Rockford area in 1999.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 6, 2008
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Judith Bailey
Interviewed by Jean Seager
For Midway Village Museum
March 14, 2008
�Jean Seager: What is your name?
Judith Bailey: My name is Judith Bailey.
JS: And you live in Rockford?
JB: I live in, actually I live in Poplar Grove.
JS: And you're married?
JB: I am. I'm married to Andrew Bailey. We've been married for 37 years in May.
JS: And do you have children?
JB: I have two sons. One of my sons is Robert and the other one is Neal. Robert is 34
now and Neal is 32.
JS: And do they live here?
JB: They do not. They live in England.
JS: Where were you educated?
JB: In a little tiny village and I mean a village in Fenton, Stoke-on-Trent.
JS: How much education did you have?
JB: I only went to, until I was 15 and then my mom actually told me what I was going to
be. She told me I was going to be a hairdresser. She got my job for me. I was working in
the Saturday mornings and then two evenings in a salon that was being run by my,
actually a friend of my mother's who looked after me in the holidays and then she went to
college and learned hairdressing and I actually followed in her footsteps.
JS: Apprenticed with her...
JB: Yes and then I went to college to Manchester for, on Monday, for two years and took
my exams that way so I, because she wouldn't really release me to do the whole session
for a year. I had to do it in days because I was working and I couldn't afford it anyway.
JS: Then you were a beautician or a hairdresser?
JB: Yes. I became a hairdresser so my mom bought me a salon when I was 20 and I ran
the salon with four apprentices until I got married when I was 23.
�JS: Was your husband from the same area?
JB: Yes, well about a mile and a half away from us to be honest. In fact it was ironic
really, I had to go 286 miles to meet him and yet he only lived 2 miles away from me.
JS: And why was that?
JB: Because we never went to the same schools, we never went to the same, we never
socialized with each other because he lived further in the country than I did and we went
to a place called Butler's holiday camp and I met him there.
JS: And that was a vacation?
JB: It was a holiday resort. It was my first time away from my parents and I’m 19.
JS: How long have you been in this country?
JB: 15 years.
JS: And what brought you here?
JB: My husband of course. His job. They put a notice on the board at the office in
Gloucestershire. There was a position going in Chicago. Would anybody like to go? So
Andy came home one Friday night, I'm cooking the evening meal, Robert was home from
college, Neal was just lying around the house and he said “I’ve got opportunity to go to
America. We have a week to decide.” I said, “Pardon?” “We have a week to decide.” I
said, “Well don't you think we ought to have a powwow around the table?” “Well, yes,
we'll have it now.” So after the evening meal we took it to the boys directly. We said “Do
you want us to go?” and they were so shocked neither of them said anything at first. It
was too much to take in. So I said, “Well you're going to have to give us some time.” and
by the following Friday Andy was on a flight going to Chicago. I didn't go with him and
the very first time he came over here, he came over for a week to look at the job and then
he came back.
JS: What kind of job was it?
JB: It's an engineering job but he works with precise measuring equipment, laser beams
and a laser equipment which they first had to research to make sure that no one in
America could do his job and then they researched that and then they said “Yes, there
was nobody who could actually perform the job so he could come then.”
JS: He works for an English company?
JB: An English company called Renishaw.
JS: Is it in Chicago?
�JB: It is in Hoffman Estates?
JS: And where do you live?
JB: I live in Poplar Grove.
JS: So he commutes?
JB: 55 minutes a day. Well it's about, 100 miles there and back.
JS: And whereabouts did you live in England, as far as. . .?
JB: The Midlands.
JS: The Midlands. . .
JB: It's nowhere near London. It's up the country in the middle of the country.
JS: what was your life like back in England, say when you were growing up?
JB: Middle-class. Parents owned a grocery shop, mom ran a grocery shop. My father was
an insurance gentleman at first and then he decided to help mom out so he was working
in the wholesale department while mom worked in the shop. She also had properties,
mum had two houses and the salon that I ended up doing my training in, she owned that
too. So my mom had property. We were quite well off. Love wise she was a little bit too
busy making money. I didn't see much of my mom only on a Thursday afternoon and
then she’s in the hairdresser's.
So to be honest being brought up, we were brought up with a Christian background. We
went to church every Sunday morning. Dad insisted on only going to church on Sunday.
We couldn't do anything else we couldn't play football or cricket or anything any other
amusements whatsoever. You had to just get up and go to church, read or sit, which was
Sunday. And Saturday mom worked so to be honest there was love there but it wasn't a
lot of physical love it was work work work work work. My mom was very much a
snobbery person. She wanted to get on in life and she knew she wanted to leave [Blurton]
and go to [Baillieston]. That's like going from a slum to the Ritz in standards. It's literally
climbing the ladder and you're there when you get to [Baillieston].
JS: How about your father?
JB: More down to earth, more loving, more caring. He didn't want the position, he didn't
want to move. It was mom. Five years every Sunday afternoon my dad would take her
out in the car just to look at areas so she could find were she wanted to live and it took
five years to find this house.
�JS: You did get there then?
JB: Oh mom was insisting on getting us there. So to put it in perspective, my father was
in the garden one day, doing my mum's flowers and the lady across the road rang my
mother up and said “That gentleman's working extremely hard in your garden. Do you
think he could come over and do my gardening?” And with that my mother whipped my
father in, told him to put his best suit on when he went out to do the gardening. If you've
ever watched Mrs. Bouquet on the TV “Keeping up Appearances” it's called, it's my
mother to a tee.
JS: Did you have siblings?
JB: I had a brother who hated my guts. He tried to kill me when I was two. He put a
cushion over my head. Didn't want me to make the noise.
JS: He was older?
JB: He was 2 1/2 years older than me.
JS: Did that improve?
JB: No. No, he denies most of the cruelty that he gave me but I can understand it because
my mom gave, we were looked after by the lady who made the hair who became the
hairdresser, or my boss before my mom gave me the salon. She used to look after us after
school. We had a series of nannies before that, but this one came in when I was about six.
So six to nine she looked after us after school and in the six weeks holiday, but at nine,
see my brother then would be 10, 11, 12, he would charge of me and he didn't want the
responsibility.
He hated it and I was one of these people that kept running off because I wanted my
freedom after school and then, so that he knew where I was and my mum wasn't going to
come home until seven o'clock in the evening from the shop, he'd lock me in the toilet so
he knew where I was. And then we were given chores to do. I had to set the table, Trevor
was supposed to light the fire, I was supposed to, he was supposed to peel the potatoes
and I was supposed to tidy up my bedroom and his bedroom and maybe Hoover up. You
know take the Hoover out. Well Trevor didn't like doing the jobs so he would threaten me
if I didn't do them all. And the one week I fell on my knee at school with the cages
underneath the coats and it was a very very nasty cut and he used to take the bandage off
and open the cut on my knee for weeks and weeks and my father couldn't understand why
it wouldn't heal.
JS: You didn't tell?
JB: No, because he said if I told he would hurt me more.
JS: Do you have any relationship with him now?
�JB: He denies all of it and he tries, since he's grown up, because I mean he's 63, when I'd
been home a few times he's made an effort to, you know, make sure that I have, cause
he’s got quite a lot of money now, he owns a business and he married late in life and he's
got two teenage children now and he's got this wonderful business so money is not an
object. It flows like water so when I go over and I stay with them I get the red carpet.
And he denies all that he did to me. He thinks it was a myth in my imagination to gain
sympathy.
JS: So you decided to come in just a week's time?
JB: Well no, Andy decided, he came over to see the job. Came back and he liked it. And
he said “Judith,” he said, “I think this is going to be a great opportunity for me. Can you
come on board?” Well I've never left England. I've never even been on a plane and I
would be leaving all my friends and one in particular who I really liked, an elderly lady
that, she was a bit like, I seem to have gone through my life finding ladies, or the Lord
has put ladies in my life, that have been my mom figure. Wherever I've gone I've ended
up having a mother figure and she was, Amy was my mother figure while we lived in
Thornbury which is on the outskirts of Bristol where my son lives now.
JS: Difficult to leave her?
JB: Very. Especially when she died two years later and I went home. She ended up with
cancer of the breast and died. I went for the funeral. I actually went over specifically for
the funeral.
JS: You had never traveled anywhere then?
JB: Never. Never been on a plane. We couldn't afford to go on holiday with the children
when we were first married because when I first got married at 23 I went on my
honeymoon to the caravan. Mum and Dad had a caravan in Wales. It's a bit like a mobile
home, you call the mobile homes, we call them caravans. My brother’s got one now in
the same area. And we would go, because we couldn't afford a honeymoon because we
bought a house the year before we got married, and we saved for five years. I courted him
for five years before we married and in that time we saved enough to put a deposit on a
house, and buy and have a mortgage. So we had that the year before we were married and
we pulled walls down and we rebuilt things and put a fireplace in it, we did no end, we
put a huge kitchen on it. So when we were, I lost my train of thought for a moment...
JS: Your caravan.
JB: Yeah, okay. So we couldn't afford a honeymoon so we went to the caravan. And of
course I got pregnant on my honeymoon and I didn't realize I had an invariable cyst on
the neck of the womb, because I didn't have any treatment before I got married. And I
produced twins, a boy and a girl, because the egg got split and unfortunately the cyst
grew and the babies didn't. And at 7 1/2 months I was dying. I was working in my salon,
�and it was Saturday morning and I said “I'm dying” and nobody seems to be listening to
me and my mother thinks I'm going around the bend. Andy thinks I'm being a spoiled
child and if somebody doesn't say something to me I'm going to be dead by tonight. So I
made arrangements to get myself to the hospital and everybody joined me there and the
next morning I had an emergency section and the babies had been dead in me a month
and they were, died, already gangrened and that was poisoning my system and the cyst
was 9 pounds in weight and I had 24 pints of water in me. I was 60 meters in
circumference around me and I had to have blood. I had to literally be washed out it was
that much poison in me and I was dying with the poison of the babies. They just burnt the
children, I never saw them. So my first year of marriage was hell on earth because I sat in
a chair then for six months in total depression and to this day if it hadn't been for Andrew
I think I’d have committed suicide because he got me out of it. He stood by me.
JS: Were you able to have more children?
JB: Yes, I've had two boys. Which they actually said I wouldn't because of the damage
but I did the Lord blessed me and I had two, one after the other.
JS: So you got all your arrangements made in just a short time to come to the United
States?
JB: Yeah, in the end Robert went back to the university. Neal said “Can I come with you?
Because at the moment I've just finished college and there's nothing else that I want to
do.” So he did and he was into music, he wrote music and he's self-taught himself to play
the guitar, and over here you can buy guitars a quarter of the price that you can buy them
in England so of course he came over and we bought him a couple of guitars and he was
here for about six months.
But he was so restricted here. He didn't like it. Because he'd lost his visitations to the pub.
And he couldn't smoke the way he would. He never smoked in my sights but we knew he
was smoking outside and he couldn't go out, he couldn't drive a car because he got no
driving license here, so he felt so he was in a prison cell and he was 19 years of age. So
after six months he went back. So both my boys had a real, you know normally the
children leave the nest, well we left the nest and the children had to fight for themselves.
And on reflection I think the Lord blessed me in a way. At the time I didn't appreciate
this because they were my whole life because most of the time Andy was away I brought
the kids up, I brought the boys up, because even in England the same job he was doing
there he came to America to do, he still went all over the world. Well, he went to East
European and he went to Italy, he went to France, he went to Belgium, to went to Austria
doing the job. So really I didn't have him with me then in England. So I brought the boys
up and they were my life and all of a sudden they were taken from me.
So I'm here in a foreign country, I literally, we had a bit of an upset actually the week we
first arrived. Robert came with us just for a holiday. He says “Can I come from a
holiday? Neal's been. It's not fair. I want to come too.” So when we came over for our
first six months, this is before we sold the house, we came over for our first six months,
�Robert came with us and it was around about November and he had Christmas with us
and then he went back but Neil stayed. And we. . . I lost my train of thought again sorry .
. . yes we had quite a few problems...
JS: Did you live in Poplar Grove at that time?
JB: No we lived in Schaumburg and when Robert went back, I went back with him and
left Andrew here because I've got to sell the house. And that was something I've never
done in my life on my own. And again I was on my own having to deal with trying to sell
the house. So anyway, it took, we bought high and sold low. We bought it at 96,000 and
we sold it for 72,000. So we had to take that loss so that I could get back. So Andy came
over to sign on the house. We had this big party, it happened to be our 25th wedding
anniversary, my eldest son's 21st birthday, Andy leaving the job, and us going to America
so we had this cake made and each corner had something to depict what was happening
in our lives. And we had this big, big party and the next morning we literally got on our
flight and said goodbye to the boys. I think I cried for three quarters of the time on the
flight and I just felt like I'd just lost part of me and I had this big hole in my heart and
Andy couldn't fill it and it was really, really, really hard and he came . . .
JS: Empty nest plus being far away?
JB: Yeah and I was put in a multi-storied apartment, seventh floor up, overlooking the
trash cans at the time. I moved later on because I couldn't stand the view. And we were
there for four days and Andy went to work and the following day he flew out to, on one
of his trips and I added up and in the two years my first two years here I actually was
with Andy for six months. I had no car for the first month, in fact it was more than that, it
was four months I had no car. I had to pass my test. Everywhere I went I had to walk. I
was walking in Schaumburg trying to cross the road, this is before they made it into an
eight lane, six lane, it was only a short lane so I could get across the road to get to Jewel's
and do my shopping but I was in this apartment all on my own in a strange place. I really,
really struggled.
JS: Did you make some friends though?
JB: Well fortunately, Andy made sure that it had a pool and it also had a Jacuzzi and it
also had a gym because I loved working out. So I used to go down and work out and I
met people that way. And I actually met another English girl who happened to be
working, she'd been here with her father, and her father and her mother split up and he
came to America, so in the early part of her life she actually went through some
schooling here and then went back to England and then she came back because her
boyfriend came here, like Andrew, not with the same company, but he was English too.
And she came and she was in the receptionist, they wanted this English voice on the
receptionist, and I walked through and I just said “Hi, how are you?” and she said
“English?” and I said “Yeah” and she said “Whoa, so am I!” you know. So we got
together and she actually was my first link to Barrington Church, I don't know whether
you know Barrington Church, her and her boyfriend at the time were going and they, she
�took, she said “Why don’t you. . .” I'd been searching for a church for a while because I
felt so lost and so empty and so alone, that I really wanted some grounding, I wanted
some purpose for being here. I, when Andy was away, I just didn't know why I was here.
When he was here I felt great but when he was away, what am I doing here? I can't work,
I can't do anything so she took me on the Sunday and then I went the following Sunday
and by this time, of course Andy isn't a Christian yet, he’s still facing the other way.
So on the following Wednesday I had nothing to do so I volunteered and I was up making
tapes and working full-time virtually volunteering at Barrington Church. And then six
years ago Andy became a Christian at Barrington Church, which they always say you’re
supposed to be equally yoked with your partner, well we’ve been married for all of these
years and we weren't equally yoked. But now we are, we know the difference, we can see
the changes that evolve between husband and wife when that divide isn't there when you
actually are feeling the same and having the same feelings for the same God it's
wonderful. You do connect better and it helps the men to soften their hearts toward
situations and problems in your marriage when a man isn't thinking about someone else,
and is always thinking about himself, he can't see that it something that's hitting, hitting,
hitting against a relationship, so that was quite nice.
JS: So how long were you in Schaumburg then before you came out here and why did
you come out to the Rockford area?
JB: Alright, well we were in Schaumburg in an apartment. I moved three times in the
same complex in different apartments and we were there five years. Am I right? Yes.
And then we move to Elgin and bought a house because Andy was sick of apartment
living. I liked apartment living because I like the company. He is an island or at the time
likes to think he's an island, but now he knows he isn't because he's found Christ. But
then at the time he thought he was still an island because he still wasn't a Christian by the
time we went in Elgin. So we bought this house in Elgin, built by a builder, it was a log
looking house, swimming pool, Jacuzzi, all the trappings and we stayed there for four
years. And then Andy’s always wanted, he’s like a frustrated architect my husband, he
may be an engineer but he really should have been an architect, and he wanted to design
and build his own home and he always wanted that, that's one of his dreams, and no
matter what I said he had to do it.
So we had the flyer through the door and I saw this flyer and I saw this house and I said
to him “Well this looks quite,…” I like water you see and ships. It had a point on, it was
an unusual shaped house, it looked like a ship to me and I said “Ooh, I like this house,
Andrew” and he said “I don't”, so I said “Oh, okay.” Well, I've learned in the years that
you have to put ideas into a husband's mind and then wait for it to percolate through to
his soul before he has the idea and then it's a wonderful idea. But you tell him, “No,
sorry.” He'll hit his head against a brick wall. Okay, so four days, four or five weeks later
this flyer I didn't get rid of and we were leaving church on Sunday. I said “Andy, it's a
lovely day, the sun's shining, lets go and see where these houses are.” “Oh okay, that
sounds a good idea. We could do with getting out in the car.”
�Well at the time, when we clocked the mileage from Elgin to Rockford he kept thinking,
this is too far, you know. I will have to commute this journey to work. It’s just under an
hour. Anyway, we went, we saw this gentleman named Dan. He took us around the
buildings and the lots and the plots and the land and we found this tree lot within four
hours of being here. We bought a piece of land, we had no intentions and we did have
buyer’s remorse, to be honest, we went home and we wished we hadn't, we wished we'd
looked further because on reflection we don't like being in Candlewick, because there’s
too many rules and you have to pay association fees and they keep going up. So on
reflection we should've said no and looked about, but I was wondering if it wasn't a God
thing really because Dan who sold us the land introduced us to a church northeast and we
went there for about two years before Heartland opened 18 months ago and now we go to
Heartland. So I think you are put in a place, sometimes you don't know why, you have no
control over why you made that decision. We made, English people don't make decisions
like that normally. We pontificate, you know, for hours and days and within three hours
we committed ourselves to this piece of land.
Well Andy went home, and he drew this fabulous house, I mean, he spent seven months
designing this house. We have now got this house in Poplar Grove, it stands out like a
sore thumb to be honest because it's so English. It’s brick. It’s got tariffs on it, and it
looks like an English house from the outside and the inside. And it's his dream home but
now we know that when he retires, when he's hoping about 68 if the Lord blesses him
and his health, and we'll then have to sell the house and really downsize because we will
be living on his pensions which aren't that great.
JS: Will you stay here?
JB: Well funnily enough this last week, in fact Monday night, we actually went to a
lawyer to decide about a will and decide, and those, we need someone to stand as
guarantor for us for our boys, because we can't use, we’ve got a will in England which
the boys are representing, but in America you have to have someone else in case Andy
and I are in an accident together in a car, to be able to look out for the boys. The money
won't automatically go to them, it has to go through a second person who's living in
America.
JS: Even though they're of age?
JB: Even though they're of age. You can have a bank person do it for you, you can put it
in a trustee, a trust that can do it for you, or a person. So funnily enough she asks us the
question, where you want to be buried. And I think cremation’s going to be the best idea.
Andy doesn't want to be cremated, he wants to go in a coffin, but I think it's difficult to
ship a coffin home if he wants to go England. Whereas you can take a jar on his knee so
vice versa I don't know. It depends on what financially we end up with when Andy
actually retires. We’re going to look at the finances, look where we’re living, look at how
much the mortgage, if we have a mortgage or not, and then decide whether it's going to
be cheaper to stay here or go to England.
�JS: Did you know anyone here before you came?
JB: No, not a soul.
JS; Andy did though?
JB: No, not a soul.
JS: When you first arrived then you went to that apartment . . . that was your first place?
JB: Yes, yes.
JS: Is there anybody that helped you find that apartment, that took you around?
JB: No actually, they just gave us a map and told us to go and look.
JS: Is there anybody now in your neighborhood, you're in Candlewick, are there other
English people living there?
JB: Funny you should say that, ironically again, I was thinking about getting another job
and one of the interpreters here, Marguerite. . .
JS: Can we back up and tell us you’re currently or you have been employed here?
JB: I'm sorry. I was employed here at the Midway Village. I was here for two years and. .
..
JS: And your position?
JB: And my position was an interpreter but I have to work weekends and it's been a bit of
a strain on my marriage. So I decided in January of this year to terminate my employment
and just work for the Civil War [Living History Days] which is coming up in May and
anything that will, you know anything comes up that is Monday to Friday that Lydia will
allow me to do then I will do but no weekends.
So I was thinking maybe I could work in the kitchens at school because I would have all
of the holidays. So I rang Marguerite because I knew she was a schoolteacher at
Caledonia School, she was a pianist, a piano teacher and . . .
JS: And this is your neighbor?
JB: This is a friend that lives in Candlewick Lake and she gave me the number and the
lady on the other end said “No you don't need me, you need this other number.” So she
gave me this other number and I must've been in America too long because I didn't
understand, I didn't realize when I first heard this voice, that she was English and I
thought I've been here too long. This young lady was named Sue and she says “Where do
�you live?” and I said “Candlewick Lake.” She said “So do I.” And I said “You don't, do
you?” and she said “Yes, I'll bring you a form home,” she said “and we can have a chat.”
So she came about 4:30 that day and brought an application form for working in the
kitchens in the school and we chatted, and talk about ironic about how two people can be
on the same path and never meet. She only lives, or lived, in England a mile and a half
from Bristol where I used to live. She came over six years before we did with her second
husband, with just a suitcase and what she stood up in, and he had a job in Chicago, an
upholstering job, and she was going to work with him. Then she ended up living in a
house in Elgin which is only two blocks from where I lived in Elgin. She now lives in
Candlewick Lake. She's been here two more years more than I, no five years more than I
have and now she's going through a divorce from the gentleman, the second husband, and
she's trying to sell her house desperately and she doesn't know whether to go back to
England. She's got a son here who is married with three children in Candlewick Lake
who actually is the English builder who's been building all the new houses in Candlewick
Lake. I thought, whoa look at all those connections! She goes to Heartland Church. I just
couldn't believe how we'd been going down the same road and yet none of us, we haven't
met and since then I've become quite friendly with her.
JS: How did you go about finding a job? Did you start working after you came to this
country?
JB: No. I couldn't work because I had no green card and you can't work unless you got a
green card. I had a Social Security number which actually said on the card, null and void
for work. You have that when you first arrive, you do have to have a Social Security card
but you, and I couldn't have any credit, we had no credit when we came here. We couldn't
even buy a car when we came here because we had no credit. I couldn't buy a coat on
credit. I couldn't get any reductions because I had no credit. The company had to loan
Andrew the money to go and buy the car so he could get to work because you need credit
over here whereas in England we don't have credit. They do now but when we were there
they don't. Everybody earned the money saved it and spent it and that's how I was
brought up. You don't have credit, you live within your means. You don't live beyond
your means. Whereas here without credit you're nobody. You don't exist.
JS: Well when you first got here then how did you get around?
JB: I had no car, the company loaned Andrew a car at first and of course he was away, so
it took about a month and the company loaned us the money, we bought a car and then
we paid it back with it once we got our credit which was stupid. But once one person
guarantees you, which the company did, all these credit cards then, all these credit card
people wanted our money because they realized we got money in the bank but nobody
would make that first step.
JS: Did you find it hard to find your way around?
�JB: Very. I’ve had to learn. I'm not a good map reader. I'm not a north-south and I
couldn't understand why you hadn't got any decent street names. You know, I mean in
England you get a street name, you get a sign and it tells you where you've been where
you're going and where you are here. And here we have numbers. I'm sorry I can't find
my way around numbers. Numbers just baffled me completely. At first, when I first came
here, this might sound utterly ridiculous, but for me to go from A to B I could only do
that and then I could do what I was doing and then I'd have to come back the same way. I
didn't dare once I was at my destiny go somewhere else and come back here because I
couldn't do it. I can now but I couldn't then.
JS: When did you finally get the job then?
JB: Well ironically I was in a small group with Northeast Church. . .
JS: In Rockford?
JB: In Rockford, yes Northeast Church is in Rockford. And Molly who actually works at
the Museum and Gwen were in my small group and I said to them could they possibly,
was there any jobs going at the village where they worked? And they said well, why don't
you come and be an interpreter you'd be absolutely fabulous with your accent. I came
here, had an interview with Lydia and they wouldn't let me leave without signing.
JS: Do you enjoy it?
JB: I absolutely love it and I'm sad that I’ve had to give it up. It wasn't my choice and had
Lydia allowed me to do Monday to Friday then I would still be here and working. I have
a wonderful report with children and grown-ups. Somehow I seem to have a face, sorry, I
seem to have a face that when I smile people want to approach and speak and I have a
feeling of warmth I think in me that radiates out and people want to be around me and I
enjoy that.
JS: So you think your English accent and your. . . has anything to do with it?
JB: Absolutely, absolutely. It's the thing that people want to do and listen to. They are
fascinated by the English accent and also my interpretation of words and the way I use
my, I just talk as though I'm talking to an English person and they have to pick it up and
they laugh and then I have to wonder why they are laughing and then they tell me what
I've said. It’s a bit like, my son was over here, you might find this, I don't know whether
you’ll use this but it's rather funny. Neil was here and of course I told you he smoked and
he did get involved in the complex with some young ladies who were the receptionists for
the company and he was in one of their apartments, there was about six couples and him
and he was just wanting to go and have a smoke and he just said “I'm could, I’ll, I’m
dying for a fag.” And everybody in the room just stopped what they were doing because
his British accent came out and they all burst out laughing and he couldn't understand
why they were laughing so he walked out of the room and went outside and lit up and
�that, they knew then what he was referring to, so when he came back they told him what
he'd said and he was astonished.
JS: Do your boys come visit very often?
JB: Robert came at Christmas. Neal that's another thing. Unfortunately because of my
choice to come here, I had to choose between my boys and my husband and you know in
biblical text you cling to your husband and once you marry you stay with him no matter
what. Well because of that my boys have drifted away from me and been very self, reliant
on their own wits. Neil, Neil didn't know what he wanted to do. He was trying to find
himself, he kept saying when he was 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, still trying to find himself. And
he asked dad if he could finance him to go on a trip around the world and we dealt in with
it and if you keep going on, it’s like a student's card, if you keep moving forward to your
destination and then you can come back. You can do it on one ticket. So we purchased a
ticket for him. So he went to Nepal and then he went to Australia and then he went to
New Zealand and then he came back to America and then back to England.
Well he had had a relationship with a young lady but he wanted to end it. So he said he
didn't want her to follow him or anything he just wanted some peace in his life and he
was into Buddhism. So he went to Nepal and stayed there for a month and then he went
to, while he was in Nepal he had this deep urge to book himself into a monastery for a
whole month in what he stood up in and he came out a complete different person. Much
more open and kind and considerate and, he was a changed boy or man. Then he went to
Australia and the girl had winned and she actually came into some money. It was a God
thing really. And she flew to Australia and then to New Zealand and met him and stayed
with him for six weeks. But he knew that if he wanted to come to see me he couldn't
bring her because I wouldn't allow her under my roof unmarried so she went back to
Australia and he came to see me, or to Andrew and I. He stayed for six weeks and then he
went back to England. She stayed in Australia for nearly a month or six weeks and then
she came back and the following year they went to Australia, they saved up, they went
back to New Zealand and got married. And I wasn't even there, I don't even feel like he's
married to her, but he is. Then on their honeymoon on the way back he brought this total
stranger, I didn't even know her second name, to us to stay for a month and then he went
back to England. And now they're living together and trying to find, it’s very expensive
in England at the moment and he was living with his mother-in-law and then the sister,
the wife's sister joined him with boyfriend and it didn't work out quite well. So Neal and
Caroline rented a house but found it tough to make ends meet so now they're going back
to the mother and the sister’s been totally decorating mothers house up because mother’s
now found a toy boy of 26 and she's 58 and she's living with him so now Caroline and
Neil are starting in the mother's house with a freshly painted house and hoping that's
going to work out...
JS: Things are getting better?
JB: Yes. So I've missed his wedding so that was. . . there's no pictures, they haven't got a
photograph of the wedding or anything, they didn't take one picture. They have no
�memories, only what's in their own minds, no memories to share with anyone. I find that
very strange but that's the way they wanted it.
JS: Are you at all active in politics?
JB: No I can't be. I am at Northeast Church, sorry not Northeast Church. I am at
Heartland cause actually since I've packed up here, I've felt since I've packed up here at
the Museum, I feel a bit lost. So I'm now working in the bookstore at Heartland and I'm
actually going to be helping out with greetings and I'm hoping that's going to materialize
into something unless something comes up in another capacity I don't know. I've applied
for a job at a bank and I've heard nothing from that so we’ll see.
JS: So you are waiting for your citizenship? Where are you in this?
JB: Well the problem with that is Mr. Clinton changed the goal posts when he was in and
Mr. Bush hasn't changed the goalposts back. So once you've got your green card, which
we've already had it now for 2 1/2 years, you have to wait five before you can start to do
your citizenship and then it takes 2 1/2 to get it. So we’re in that position actually.
JS: How did people treat you when you came here?
JB: As an oddity, as something. . . they liked it, but I felt that I was on stage performing
with my accent just to amuse them, a lot.
JS: Did it feel like you really came to a foreign country?
JB: Yes, absolutely.
JS: Even though people spoke the same language?
JB: The money’s different, the social life's different. You Americans are very
materialistic, you like possessions, you like gifts, you like things around you, you like
change, you like season changes, you even like changing in your home. Spring, summer,
autumn, winter, you seem to have to have a different picture on the wall for a different
time of the year, different curtains up. You seem to have to have a lot of parties, a lot of
reasons for life, whereas I never went out in England. Only for my wedding anniversary
or my or a birthday. We never went out for meals. We ate at home, indoors. We just got
the food, we prepared it and sat around the table as a family and that's why it was such a
big change for me to leave the boys, because we sat and ate our evening meals together
and talked around the table.
JS: Do you think it still like that there or do you think it's more modernized now?
JB: I think it's more modernized now and I think both my boys have television teas you
know just like anybody else does.
�JS: Did you have a preconceived idea of what this country was like before you came
here?
JB: No, not one. I can completely open-minded. I had to to accept it. It's the only way.
JS: Has it turned out, has your move here turned out the way you'd hoped it would?
JB: Financially we could not have done with the boys what we did without the finances
here. Financially we went up tenfold. You've got to remember I came from a tiny house.
It would fit in my garage. And including the land around it. I've got a house with a three
car garage. My house with an upstairs and a bathroom and a yard would fit in my garage.
JS: Your mothers?
JB: My mum’s house would fit in my garage now quite easily, so you can imagine what I
came to and I had the terrible green eye when I first came. Absolutely, I have to be
truthful, I had the terrible green eye.
JS: You were jealous.
JB: Yes. Envious so and it's a real nasty sin I know. When I came, I came in November at
Christmas and I walked into the mall and saw that tree, my eyes were on my cheeks. I
could not believe, everything was moving on this tree and I mean the mall was so big and
everybody had shopping baskets and money just seem to be flowing like water. People
had, the people that the company introduced us to at Christmas, they got these palatial
homes. The size of their dining rooms were the size of the full size of my house in
England. We lived, my son's bedroom was smaller than their closets, their walk-in
closets.
So when I first came my apartment was like a mansion. When I first came here I felt that
I was the queen bee when I was in my apartment because it was so big and spacious and I
had this beautiful, well eventually I had a nice view, but the apartment itself was very
nice. So when we moved into Elgin and in this house Andy's built me, in all the houses
Andrew, I’ve ever lived in, I haven't quite understood, I haven't realized, but when I first
moved into the house we live in now, I didn't know whether I was the maid or whether I
was the queen. I couldn't work out who and I felt terribly guilty for owning it. I felt it was
too much. I didn't deserve it and when I first came here I definitely said to Andrew “I
don't deserve what has been given to me.”
I felt too privileged and it spoiled me because now when I go back to England I feel
claustrophobic. I feel that the world is closing in on me, terrible! Traffic, the roads are too
narrow, the traffic goes too fast because of the narrowness of the roads, there's a lot of
hustle and bustle. Financially we can't even afford to go to England at the moment
because it costs us too much to get there and live because the dollar is going down the
tubes at the moment here. Our dollar goes nowhere. Now Robert came here at Christmas
�and he was shining like, great!, because his pound was going so far when he came here so
there is a difference.
JS: Did this move turn out like you thought it would?
JB: No. I think I treated it like an adventure at first. And that's not a really nice way to
say it but I did, I treated it like a holiday and an adventure.
JS: What was the best part about coming here?
JB: I can't honestly say I have a best part. I think, well actually yes I do. Finding the Lord
to be honest. I don't know if you can use that but yes, finding the Lord, and finding
myself. I've actually grown up since I've been here. I wasn't grown up when I was in
England. I really wasn't grown up at all. I've grown up since I've been here. I had to make
decisions that Andy's made me make that I wasn't making in England and I found it hard
to think about me. Because up until I arrived here my children were my thought, my life
was my boys, the house, housekeeping and keeping Andy happy and then when I came
here that rug was taken from me, Andy wasn't in my life and I had no where to go and I
had nothing, no destiny. I had nothing in my life and I had to find me and it's taken me all
this time to be happy with me, in myself and to be a woman in my own right. I didn't feel
a woman in my own right until this last four or five years.
JS: What was the hardest or most difficult thing?
JB: Leaving the boys.
JS: What do you miss most about England?
JB: I miss not being able to leave the house and go for a walk that I don't have to take a
car for...
JS: You can't do that where you live?
JB: Well I can in Candlewick, but once you walk around the lake it's the same scene,
whereas if, you know, we could walk quite a long way, I mean I could walk to Trenton, I
could walk two or three or 4 miles, I don't suppose, I don't really know what the
differences is. I think sense of humor I miss. And I miss being able to speak to an English
person who knows what I'm saying and I can have, I can say something and they know
it's a joke and they respond. Like when I met Sue we can talk together and I can say
something, she laughs and I'll say “That's what I miss,” I miss the interaction, because the
Americans haven't got the same sense of humor. I watch your programs on the telly and I
can't laugh at your programs. I’m sorry, they're not funny. Whereas you seem to be able
to laugh at our comedy. I think that's the difference we haven't got the same sense of
humor. Yours is very, very witty but level, it's got no depth to it. We've got more of a
satirical humor and humor keeps the world go round, really. I can't think of anything
�other than finances and Andrew’s got on with this job. I can't think there's anything
different really.
JS: Do you see yourself as English rather than American?
JB: Yes.
JS: Do you think you always will?
JB: Yes, I'm going to make sure I keep my English.
JS: But your way of thinking is it . . .
JB: Oh no, it's American now. My mother says I'm more American. When I speak she
hears me and she'll say “That's an American slang” or “You're losing your punctuality”
and losing . . . you know because when you're in England you speak a little differently
than when you are here. You hear a different type of English I suppose. I'm not sure but
yes, I am more American. I am more American because I like the spaciousness that you
provide here. I like the, if I want, you see in England, at one time when I was there you
couldn't go for a meal after six o'clock. Everything shuts, everything closes down,
whereas now we're getting very Americanized so when I go back to England I can see
some big malls opened [Trentham] Gardens has been turned into an absolute wonderful
place for the rich and that's not far down the road from where my mom lives. So yes,
England, now I've realized that the way they're going to get on is tourism. Tourism is
getting England out of the doldrums because they're realizing that Americans, and
Germans and French are going to England because they're more open now. We're not as
closeted as we used to be.
JS: Do you look forward to becoming an American citizen?
JB: I think we’re only doing it, we’re doing it for the wrong reasons. We're doing it
because we feel, we think that our pensions going to suffer if we don't. We have a few
more anomalies once we become a citizen than we don't have now and it also changes
our taxes and our financial, so I think we’re only really doing it for, but we don't lose our
British. Andy's half Irish and half Scottish and half English. His father was Scottish, his
mother was Irish, yet he was born in England. I'm true English. But when we become
citizens we keep all the same. We don't lose any of them. We thought we would but we
don't. He’s got an Irish passport, he's got an English passport and we’ll have an American
passport
JS: How about pensions, will you still get a pension from England?
JB: Well fortunately Andy stayed in the pension system in England too. He's got two jobs
or two companies, the very first one he’s still got a pension with them. Renishaw in
England he's got a pension with them and he's also taken a 401(k) out here but that 401(k)
if we are members, if we are American citizens, changes if we don't so it will benefit us
�the amount of money he's going to get on his 401(k) if we are citizens. So that's the only
reason, we’re not doing it for patriotic reasons to be honest. We don't really feel like we
need, we don't want to do it for patriotic reasons we’re only doing it for that reason.
JS: You have no intentions of moving back to England?
JB: I think if grandchildren come on the scene it might change the subject but according
to Neil and Caroline they don't want children and Robert hasn't even got a girlfriend. He's
my eldest boy so if grandchildren came on maybe, or if Andy died, or see my mom's 88
and she's got all her marbles. She still runs her own home she does all the washing and
ironing, she cooks and cleans.
JS: Is your father living?
JB: No, father died 15 years ago.
JS: How often do you get home to visit?
JB: Less and less. Andy hasn't been home for eight years and I haven't been home for
five.
JS: So you think you'll spend the rest of your life here then? That's the plan?
JB: If Andy stays well and healthy and we have an old age together I think we will be
here. If Andy dies and my mom is still living and maybe she needs me. I don't know, how
can you, I haven't got a crystal ball. Or if Neil and Caroline have a child maybe they
might want me there. I don't know. When you make a choice to leave your children even
though they’re 19 or 21 and you've been very very tightly connected in a family unit
which we were, and you leave the nest it makes an impression on those children and
those children don't view you as being in the full front of their lives anymore because
you're not. You're not in their day to day life so they don't treat you the same. You are
their mom and dad, but you're further away. The nest has been pulled apart so if you
expect to come back into their lives because a grandchildren has been born you might
find they’re turning away. You weren't there when I needed you, don't come back here
interfering now. So when you make that choice it's permanent. You can't put back the
pieces when they've already been broken and that was, when you asked me what was the
thing that hurt me most coming here and I said the children. I missed that connection. I
miss that family unit. When you have Christmas and when you have Easter and when you
have parties, birthday parties and the family, Thanksgiving everybody together as a
family. That's when it hurts every time because I don't have a family here.
JS: How do you. . . Do you spend your holidays with friends?
JB: No. We’re always together the two of us and that's it. And I miss that. I miss that
connection with my family. And I've realized the older I'm getting the more it's painful,
very painful.
�JS: Maybe things will change.
JB: You just have to live and hope because I don't know what's in store for me or
Andrew. You have to just keep staying healthy and well.
JS: One last question. How do you feel about the current debate in this country about
immigration and immigrants legal or otherwise?
JB: I don't think they should be allowed to sneak over the border. I don't know how
you're going to stop it, but I don't think they should be allowed to sneak over the border.
They should come in like I come in, with a job or a person who's coming with a person
with a job. And when they're here I still think they should be given all the same
opportunities as everyone else, because if they are coming and they're coming with a job
then they're going to contribute to the running of the country. But there is something said,
if Mr. Bush or whoever's there, it doesn't matter if it's Bush, or whoever it's there, if he
stops the immigrant population from coming in America would come to a sudden halt
because they actually take up the slack of all the jobs that the American people won't do.
So, and they actually are doing the menial jobs so that the rest of the Americans can get
on so, you know.
JS: Are you speaking to illegal immigrants or all immigrants?
JB: No, well illegal, well no because illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to come
over the border so I don't agree with that. But if you are legally here and like Andy and I
came, he came with a job so that's okay. And I pay taxes. I don't pay taxes in England.
We don't exist in England. We have an account, some money in a bank, but it's only for
emergencies in case the boys need something to bail them out or if we go over we can use
English money and we haven't had to take our money over because at the moment it's
worthless anyway. The American dollar is worthless anyway so with that if you're
coming over here and you've got all your ducks in a line you should be treated like any
other person. But illegal, I don't think you can stop it to be honest. I think it's a foregone
conclusion they're going to sneak over no matter what. I don't think you're ever going to
stop it. No matter how many troops he puts out there. I mean if you take eastern and
western Germany, when the wall came down the West did not want the East in. They
really did not want the east in because the West, they had got a very nice high society,
they were earning a lot more money, they had lovely homes and the East Germans had
nothing and they really didn't have anything and they did not want them on the other side.
JS: It took a long time to work that out.
JB: Absolutely. They were devastated. So just that, and look at Israel. Look at what's
going on in Israel. Israel's in a terrible state and Israel just don't want to give the
Palestinians any room you know, they keep building houses. They’ve put, now they put a
German wall up. Which the Germans pulled down. I mean, why erect something like that
�across lands they don't even own? And they just willy-nilly put a wall up. Well that's not
being true democracy that just dictatorship. I'm sorry.
�
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Title
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Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Language
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English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seager
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Judith Bailey
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
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Digital recording
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Judith Bailey
Description
An account of the resource
Judith Bailey immigrated to the United States from England in 1993.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 14, 2008
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
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PDF Text
Text
Patty Chavez
Interviewed by
Jean Seager
January 19, 2008
For Midway Village Museum
�Jean Seager: Could you give me your name please?
Patty Chavez: My name is Patty Chavez.
JS: And where are you from?
PC: I live in Rockford, Illinois.
JS: Are you married?
PC: I am single.
JS: Do you have children?
PC: I do not have children.
JS: And your education?
PC: I graduated from high school and I attended Northern Illinois University and I
graduated with a major in history with the concentration on America and I also majored
in Latin American literature.
JS: And where do you work presently?
PC: I work at Phase/Wave.
JS: And what is your job there?
PC: I am a senior counselor. I supervise case managers that work in the shelter, that work
with battered women.
JS: Doesn't sound like a history major.
PC: No it does not.
JS: How long have you been there?
PC: I've been there for 2 1/2 years.
JS: And how do you like it?
PC: I really enjoy it. I enjoy working with the community, with battered women. It's a
very overwhelming and rewarding experience work, working there. I like it.
JS: Did you work anywhere else before that?
�PC: Yes. I worked at La Voz Latina for two years.
JS: Were you born in the United States?
PC: I was born in Rockford, Illinois.
JS: Where were your parents from?
PC: My parents are from [Allende, Coahuila] Mexico.
JS: When did they come here?
PC: My father came to the United States when he was eight years old. My mother arrived
after she was married. She was 29.
JS: So how did your parents meet?
PC: My parents met at [Allende, Coahuila] where they were both from. My mother,
actually my father, they were from the same neighborhood so that's where they met.
Everyone kind of knew each other at eight years old. My father would come and work in
the United States and then he returned back to Mexico once or twice a year and he just
began dating my mom. So they dated for 13 years.
JS: 13 years! That’s a longtime to be dating.
PC: Back then it was a very long time and they married older. My mom was 26 and my
dad was 30 and that was pretty old for people to get married back then.
JS: Was there any question about coming to the United States?
PC: No not at all. My dad since he'd been here since eight years old working with my
grandfather, they knew that they had a better opportunity here. So my mother knew that
when they were married she would have to come because there are better opportunities
for them here than in Mexico.
JS: Do you think it's something she really wanted to do?
PC: I don't think it's something she wanted to do, I don’t think she wanted to leave, but
she felt she needed to in order to be with my father because she knew that he would be
the main breadwinner and obviously she knew that he would earn more here and they
would have more of an opportunity here, and also as well if they had children. But it was
always difficult for her to leave her family, for both of them actually.
JS: Does she go home very often to Mexico?
�PC: My mother, they would, we would go back to Mexico at least once a year. In the
summertime or wintertime. During December, we go back once a year.
JS: Do you have siblings?
PC: I have four sisters and one brother.
JS: Are they younger or older than you?
PC: I am the youngest in my family.
JS: So did you all go back when you went back to Mexico, did the whole family go?
PC: We would all go back as a family to visit family in Mexico.
JS: Are your parents still living?
PC: No. My mother passed away seven years ago and my father passed away in
November of 07.
JS: Oh, just last winter then. What did your parents, well you said your father was eight
when he came here. Was your mother employed when she was living in Mexico?
PC: My mother was not employed when she lived in Mexico.
JS: What did your father do here?
PC: My father worked on the farms as a farmhand. He also worked in factories. He
worked in bakeries, he worked in stores as a helper, any type of employment that he
could get or he could obtain he worked.
JS: What do you think, did they ever talk about why they wanted to come here?
PC: My parents stated they wanted to come to the United States because for better living,
it was a better pay, they had more opportunities.
JS: Both of them felt that way?
PC: Both of them felt that way.
JS: How did they decide upon Rockford? How did your father decide to come here?
PC: My father came to Rockford because his uncle told him there is great opportunity
here. At that time manufacturing business was flourishing and he encouraged him to
come. My father was working as a farm hand in [Levelland], Texas. My mother was with
him there. They were already married, they had two children and my grandmother was
�also with them. And my father decided that he needed to, in order to support the whole
family, he needed to get employment where he would be paid more and it would be more
steady and he would get benefits, insurance, for the whole family. So he migrated to
Rockford and he met my uncle here. He worked until he got an apartment [and] a house
and then he brought my family up. My mom and my sisters from Texas. And then he
eventually bought the house across the street where they were living at and that's where
we presently live at, where I live at.
JS: You live there?
PC: Yes. I lived there with my father until he passed away. My mom lived there until she
passed away.
JS: So you live there by yourself then?
PC: I inherited the house. I live with my aunt, my dad’s sister who has lived with us since
45 years ago. She never married.
JS: Had they, had your mother been in the country before she moved here?
PC: The first time my mother came to the United States was when she married and my
father brought her to Texas to live with him.
JS: She didn't even visit?
PC: She never visited the United States before that. Despite the fact that we live an hour
from the border, or they're from an hour from the border.
JS: Never came to America.
PC: She never came to the United States until then.
JS: How do you think she felt about the United States after she came here?
PC: I believe she struggled when she first migrated to the United States because she was
so far from family. It was the first time that she had been far from them as well as the
different traditions and customs that she found here. It wasn't so difficult when she
migrated to Texas because they have such a large Hispanic population and presence
there, but when she came to Illinois, to Rockford it was very difficult for her.
JS: Did any other family or friends come with either of them? When your father came
you said he was eight years old. Was it his whole family that came at that time?
PC: No. My father didn't come to Rockford until he was 34. When he was eight years old
and he came here, he traveled different states with my grandfather. He went to California
to Michigan, Ohio, Iowa, Washington, Texas, Kansas, Missouri. He was all over the
�United States. When my grandfather went he took my father so he could work and help
with the household income because my father had five siblings that he also had to help
my grandfather support, plus my grandmother.
JS: Your grandmother was living too?
PC: Um hm.
JS: And where was it in Texas that they lived you mentioned?
PC: My father lived in [Levelland], Texas. They settled, my mother and my father settled
in [Levelland], Texas after they married.
JS: That's a long way from Rockford.
PC: It is very far away.
JS: Do you have family there yet? Is there anyone there, any relatives in that area?
PC: My family does live in Texas. They live in Eagle Pass, Texas, Houston, Dallas,
Austin but they do not live in [Levelland], Texas.
JS: How about your siblings? Are they here?
PC: My brother lives in Canton New York and my sisters live in the state of Illinois.
They live in Rockford, one sister lives in Sterling.
JS: Did any other family members outside of your grandparents and your father, did your
grandparents know anybody else when they came here? Did they have other people here
before they came?
PC: No, my father only knew my uncle.
JS: Did he help them get settled here?
PC: My uncle did help my, my dad settle in Rockford.
JS: How did he help them?
PC: My uncle helped them by finding employment, helping them find employment. My
father eventually worked, obtained employment at Ingersoll. He worked there for about
35 years. My uncle also helped my dad find an apartment for him to live in. He also
helped him find his way around, helped him buy a car, get to know the city.
JS: Did they live in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood?
�PC: Yes, my father residing in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood on Cunningham
Street.
JS: What did your uncle do? Was he employed here? You said he was employed, steadily
employed here.
PC: My uncle had obtained employment at Ingersoll.
JS: Oh he was at Ingersoll. Okay. Did your mother work at all after she came here?
PC: My mother worked in Texas, when my parents were living in Levelland, Texas she
worked also as a farm hand to help out my father. When she migrated to Rockford she
only worked for two years at Green Giant in Belvidere.
JS: Where did you live growing up?
PC: I grew up in Rockford on Cunningham Street.
JS: And you still live there?
PC: I continue to live on Cunningham Street.
JS: What was your home life like?
PC: It was very different I feel from some other children in school. At home, how should
I say, at home we, we spoke Spanish, we only ate Mexican food, we watched Mexican
television, Mexican shows. Our culture was pretty much every day of our lives while
we're at home, outside of school. We engaged with only the Hispanic community. We
only socialized with them, primarily from those from our area of Mexico, those are from
the state of [Coahuila], in that community.
JS: But then when you went to school how was that? That must've been quite different.
PC: It was very different of course because of the language, but also just getting to know
the kids. Knowing they had different customs, traditions from myself.
JS: What school did you attend, elementary school?
PC: I attended St. Anthony's and then I continued on to St. Patrick's and then from high
school I attended Boylan High School.
JS: You went to Boylan. You said you’re the youngest. Are you quite a bit younger than
your other siblings or are you pretty close in age?
PC: My sisters are pretty much older than I am. The youngest, the next in line, she’s
seven years, we’re seven years apart, and my brother and I are four years apart.
�JS: Your home life, if your siblings are that much older you must've been almost like
two separate families. Were your sisters gone by the time you. . .
PC: My sisters, by the time I was 9, 10 years old, two of them were already out of the
house and then by the time, before I graduated high school the other two were already
gone and my brother left home to go to college when I was 14.
JS: Everyone got along well though?
PC: We all got along well because we had to. Besides the family, the children, my
parents living at my home, my father had, well, my grandmother and my aunt lived with
us and it was his responsibility to care for them especially since my aunt did not marry.
My grandfather passed away many years ago so he gained the responsibility of caring for
my grandmother and supporting her, so they also lived with us.
JS: And you had lots of Mexican customs?
PC: Yes. Celebrations, everything, food.
JS: What was your neighborhood like?
PC: Predominantly Hispanic. Between, usually there was either Hispanic or AfricanAmerican families, but they were mostly Hispanic, all families that we knew that we
grew up with, families that were part of from where we we’re from in Mexico. When, I
remember growing up there were only a few families, like everyone knew everybody
compared to now there's so many people that we don't know. Before it was always just
the same families and everyone always knew somebody.
JS: They did not, your parents didn't speak English in your home?
PC: My parents did not speak English in the home.
JS: Did they encourage you to?
PC: No, they did not encourage me to speaking English in the home. They felt I got
enough English at school.
JS: Okay. Did they, were they fluent in English?
PC: My father spoke English very well but he had a thick accent. My mother did not
speak English.
JS: Did she have a problem with that?
�PC: My mother struggled with that, with not speaking English when we were younger.
She used us as interpreters, but as we grew older it was a lot easier for her because we
were able to interpret for her, more efficiently than when we were five or six years old.
JS: Did she find that frustrating, that she couldn't communicate?
PC: My mother found that very frustrating that she couldn't communicate sometimes to
other people outside the home.
JS: Did she show any signs of wanting to learn English?
PC: My mother I believed did take a couple of English classes. She only obtained the
basic English skills, words that she needed to survive or to make payments or just to
communicate if she needed something at the store but she did not speak it fluently.
Primarily she didn't study, continue to study because she had a home to take care of. It
was the belief that my father was the breadwinner and she was in charge of the home and
the children.
JS: Did you find in the neighborhood, the children in the neighborhood, were they
speaking English at times or was it always Hispanic?
PC: The kids in the neighborhood spoke Spanglish, they spoke English and Spanish.
JS: Spanglish. How much school did your parents complete?
PC: My father only attended, completely, second-grade. He attended third grade for two
days until my grandfather pulled him out so he could go work with him. My mother only
attended until sixth grade.
JS: And your education, now you have a college education. How about your siblings?
PC: My brother, he has, will obtain his Ph.D. in philosophy this coming winter, in
December he will graduate with his Ph.D. in philosophy. My sister has a bachelor’s
degree in accounting and my other two sisters have Associates degree.
JS: They would have been very proud of you. I bet they were very proud of you.
PC: They were proud of all of us.
JS: What kind of an attitude did they have about school then?
PC: My father was very encouraging in the sense of school or receiving a higher
education, he always encouraged us. He encouraged us to continue school to college. I
appreciate he gave us a choice. He told us I give you the best education I can give you
until high school. Once we graduated, he paid obviously for all our tuitions, never asked
for any assistance, financial assistance. And he said I give you the best education I can
�give you. It's your choice if you want to continue. But he was very encouraging. He was
like, if you need help with anything we can help as much as we can. He was always very
encouraging.
My mother on the other hand was not encouraging towards the woman. She felt that we
shouldn't continue our education. She always asked us, “What for?” you know “You're
going to go to school and then you're going to find someone to marry and you'll be fine,
you know. Why do you need school for? Just get a dead-end job as a secretary and you'll
be happy and get married and have a family.” So when I attended school she was not very
supportive.
JS: How about your sisters either?
PC: My sisters actually went into college as adults after being, while they were married.
Their husbands were very supportive and actually they attended college after my mother
passed away. And my father was very very encouraging even after my sisters were
already married and had children and he supported them said, good thing you're still
doing it even though you are married and you didn't see it as a sense of, it’s not an
opportunity even though you are married.
JS: This must've been difficult for your father to, did he help you financially with
school?
PC: My father did help me out financially when I was in college.
JS: And your brother?
PC: Yes, my father helped financially any of my siblings if they needed help with college
but pretty much it was only my brother and I because at the time like I said my sisters
were married. But he was very emotionally supportive, but financially he helped my
brother and I out.
JS: And you all went to private schools when you were younger?
PC: Yes, yes we all attended Catholic schools.
JS: So you attended which church?
PC: We attended St. Mary's at one point and then we continued on to St. Pats.
JS: So you're Catholic?
PC: Yes.
JS: And you attended, what college did you go to?
�PC: I attended Northern Illinois University.
JS: What was your first job?
PC: I first worked, my first employment ever was at Zammuto’s drive-in on Kent St. I
can’t pronounce it.
JS: How’d they feel about you working, how old were you?
PC: I began working at the age of 13. They encouraged me to work. They said you know
you don't have to but if you'd like to, go ahead, and since I was able to work at that age I
did. And later they kind of liked that I did work because they paid for my tuition but I
paid for my uniform and my books. So I was helping them out financially.
JS: Sure. What other kind of work that you do besides that after that?
PC: After I worked at Zammuto’s I continued on to work at a law firm as a law clerk, not
a law clerk as a file clerk, I’m sorry as a file clerk, at [Heyl, Royster, Voelker and Allen].
I worked there for a couple years and I also worked on campus.
JS: At Northern?
PC: At school. At Northern.
JS: How about your friends, who are your friends? Do you mainly have people that are in
the same, Hispanic?
PC: All my friends either are Hispanic they are very much into the culture or they're not
Hispanic that are very much into the culture. And they most likely speak Spanish.
JS: Are they, do you have a lot of friends here in Rockford or are they friends from
college?
PC: My friends are mostly from Rockford.
JS: Why did you come back to Rockford?
PC: I came back to Rockford because my mother was diagnosed with cancer and since I
am the youngest in my family and not married it was my duty to come back and care for
her. And I felt, I did not feel it was an obligation even though some say it was culturally,
but I wanted to come back and care for her. So my last year in college I took as few
classes as I could to be standing to have the status as a college student and I started out
with five classes and came down to one in order to be in Rockford to care for her.
JS: How long did you care for her then?
�PC: I cared for my mother for 10 months. She had liver cancer.
JS: Was she able to be at home?
PC: My mother was able to be at home. She did receive chemotherapy until about nine
months, and after nine months she was put in hospice and she lived for a month after that
before she passed away.
JS: Hospice was something you decided together that she would do?
PC: Yes. Once we had to take her to the ER in the hospital her doctor told her she was
basically at the point where chemotherapy was not helping her out anymore and we had a
choice of leaving her at the hospital to be cared for in the cancer unit, or to take her home
and spend time with us and we all unanimously decided that we wanted her at home with
us because nobody can take better care of her then us. And after she came home my two
aunts came from Mexico as well as some cousins to come and help out.
JS: Does, did your mother and father have, are there a lot of grandchildren?
PC: My mother and father had 13 grandchildren.
JS: Did you all stay pretty close?
PC: We continue to be very close as a family. We speak every single day pretty much.
We get together very often, every weekend, every other weekend. In the summertime
we’re together many many times, especially during the week. We go to baseball games
for the kids, any sports activities or plays we all attend, and I attend, it’s my sisters, my
aunt, my brother, sometimes cousins. We’re a very close family.
JS: Your aunt still lives that you?
PC: My aunt still lives with me?
JS: Is she elderly?
PC: My aunt, yes, well she, she is, she's 65 years old. She still continues to work.
JS: In your neighborhood when you were growing up were there, was there any fighting
with other ethnic groups?
PC: In our neighborhood even though they're primarily two different groups AfricanAmerican and Hispanics there have never been any fighting or any arguments or
situations between the two groups.
JS: Did each group kind of stay by themselves or did they mingle much?
�PC: Both, different ethnic groups stayed to themselves, but there is a Hispanic store down
the street on Cunningham Street called the [(Jarisco?) unknown name] and you would see
many African-Americans there buying things, buying the Mexican corn or any other
Mexican flavor. And you would hear people say, “Oh those are good corn, or good
tamales, or good food,” and it seemed like they enjoyed the food, enjoyed the culture, but
we pretty much stayed to ourselves.
JS: So you met your friends through, the friends that you had were neighborhood or
school?
PC: Yes my friends were either neighborhood or at school.
JS: Now you mentioned that your mother had a little trouble getting into American
culture. What about your dad?
PC: My father did not assimilate very much. My father he, at work he worked with my,
with his uncle and he worked also with his brothers and family friends and then my
brother-in-laws began working there, my uncles and my cousins, was pretty much a big
family. Family that worked there also.
JS: What did they do there?
PC: The majority of the family there, including my father, were welders. But they also
have other family friends and family who worked in different departments. But a majority
of them working welders.
JS: Were your parents open to new ways of doing things? American ways?
PC: My parents were not open to doing things the American way. If they had to they did
but it was not something they preferred and they didn't.
JS: Did you disagree with them often about that type of thing? Like what to wear and
what music to listen to or?
PC: At times we did disagree about what type of clothing or what type of music or just
even going out by ourselves. We were not allowed to go out by ourselves as females, we
had to accompany one another or be accompanied by somebody.
JS: Till you were how old?
PC: Until you were married.
JS: Was it difficult for them to see you go off to school then?
�PC: My parents did have, even though my father did encourage me to go to college and
continue my education, they had a very difficult time accepting me going far away or
they thought it was far away but I had to come home every weekend.
JS: You are the baby.
PC: I was, yes. And they called everyday.
JS: Did you find that oppressive or was that okay with you?
PC: I found it to be very suffocating but I later as an adult I understand why.
JS: Did you get angry with them for that?
PC: I became very angry. I became very angry and resentful and I felt they were trying to
hold me back, but I guess I wasn't able to balance that out as understanding that they saw
it more as a family reason why they were being so protective and I saw it more as like
“Well, you don't want me to be free. You don't want me to be who I am and you're
imposing me, and to be how you want me to be, and you’re obligating me to fit this mold
and I'm not.” So I would become very angry at times.
JS: When did that turn into appreciation?
PC: When I had to come home to take care of my mother I realized that the reason they
were like, they I guess they were like that, as I called it, was because they wanted to hold
the family together. My brother-in-law made a very good point at my father's wake. He
stated that when we were caring for him, because he was in the hospital, he actually was
in the cancer care unit, someone had to do be with him every single time of the day, even
though they had nurses, one of us had to be there with him.
JS: Why is that?
PC: We felt, I felt, he needed us to be there. He needed one of us to be there at least every
single moment of the day. I stayed the nights with him. I worked during the day. But my
brother-in-law made a very good point that it's not, they kind of felt it was for selfish
reasons that he wanted to be babied, but it was, I can understand that he just wanted to
keep the family united, that it was because we’re family, we had to be there. We should
be there, we need to be there, and I can [materialize] that now, I do see that now, that
that’s the reason why. He’s our father. We had to be there.
JS: Were you ever embarrassed by them, that they were different?
PC: I was never embarrassed by my parents. We have a very good sense of humor so we
always made fun of each other, and we just always laughed at the differences but no, I
was never embarrassed of them.
�JS: Even when you went into high school?
PC: I was not embarrassed of them in high school because the friends I had also had this,
I guess challenges that I had and they were experiencing the same thing I did. So I didn't
feel like I was the only one. I felt like, well, we’re all Hispanic, we're all going through
the same thing, we all understand. This is just the way it is with the Mexican culture and
just trying to assimilate and we would just make fun of it and just laugh at it instead of
being embarrassed by it. But I did not feel, I did feel that in high school they didn't
understand, those who were not Hispanic, I did not have very many friends in high school
because there were not many Hispanics.
JS: Did they make you feel different?
PC: I felt like I was different in high school because I was very much into the culture. At
that time I associated with, socialized with Hispanic people, I only listened to Spanish
music, Mexican music, I did not listen to English music or mainstream music. I attended
Mexican events, social events, so I did feel different. I felt very unattached from the
main, the main class or student body. But I didn't care because, I mean they don't
understand. They don't, they're not me, they don't understand where I'm coming from. It
didn't bother me.
JS: Were there any customs or traditions, obviously there were many customs and
celebrations that you continued all through your life. Can you tell me a little bit about
some of them?
PC: We, everything is Christmas, well for Christmas and for Thanksgiving we would
have turkey for Thanksgiving but we would always also had tamales and we would have
rice, Mexican rice, and we would have frijoles rancheros, beans. We always had that and
that was kind of different cause maybe you wouldn't expect us to eat tamales for
Thanksgiving but that’s what we eat and also for Christmas. It's very common that we eat
tamales. We ate [Bunuelos], it’s a type of a dessert. We made [Ponche] which is a type of
fruit punch, but it’s a hot fruit punch and you make it with fruit that's not very common in
this area. It's hard to come by. Or it’s usually more expensive because common to come
by that fruit. But we also, we celebrate Christmas Eve. We don't celebrate Christmas
Day. So we have dinner for Christmas Eve and we would go to midnight mass or [Misa
de Gallo] as we call it and we come back, we open gifts and usually we continue to
celebrate it until about five or six o'clock in the morning because that's how it's done in
Mexico. And we, in Mexico we also celebrate down there, people put fireworks and stuff
like that in celebration but obviously we couldn't do that here because it was winter.
And for New Year's Eve we’ll also make tamales and we continue to make [Ponche] or
make chocolate, what you call Chocolaté which is also warm, it was Mexican chocolate.
And then there was different customs in the sense that you would wear anything red for
good fortune and for love for the New Year. We would also as well each get 12 grapes
and make 12 different wishes for the good year. We eat it separately and name this is
�what I wish for. And then also as well we would have a sack or a suitcase and we need to
walk under the door 12 times at midnight for good fortune and for good luck.
JS: Do you still do any of these things?
PC: We do not continue to do the 12 grapes event being or the suitcase thing, but we do
continue to wear red for good fortune. We do continue with the food aspect of it because
we love to eat so we do continue with the tamales and all the traditional foods. We
decided, we always know what the menu’s going to be and we get together and make
tamales, we don't buy them we make them our own.
JS: How about superstitions? Are there any Mexican superstitions that your parents
brought to this country and you still have?
PC: Superstitions, well we continue to have an altar. When my parents passed away and
my grandmother we have an altar for them in our home. We have a cup of water to keep
them present because they state that the soul’s attracted to water so if you have water in
the home that's going to bring the spirit be near us. So on their altar we have a cup of
water to make sure they're close to us. When I was younger my grandmother, and I used
to do this sometimes, always put a glass of water on my headboard and the reason she’d
say is because at nighttime your body leaves, your soul leaves your body at night and for
it to return in the morning you should put a cup of water. When there's lightning we will
always turn off the TV and we also put sheets over the mirrors because the lightning's
attracted to the mirrors, so we put sheets over the mirrors. It’s just something we just do
and we always turn off the TV and we don't use the phone.
JS: So you do observe some of the. . . ?
PC: Yes, we observe some. We do observe some. We don't pull our hair when we have
obviously gray hair you don't pull on it because you'll get more. If you're pregnant you
don't color your hair, you don't cut your hair because it's bad for the child. You don't wear
black when you're pregnant.
JS: Did your parents feel that it was important that you remember your roots?
PC: My parents thought it was very important to remember my roots, especially my
father. He would always tell us stories about things in you know his, as experiences here,
what he experienced, what challenges he had, what challenges my parents had and my
grandparents and my great grandparents had. He was, they’re from a very humble
background and he was also very proud of it but he also used it as a lesson for us to take
advantage of what we had to move forward because he never had the same opportunities
and he would just tell us, you know, like one day he had to eat armadillo because there
was nothing else for him to eat. You know, be happy or grateful that you have what you
have. You know, he’s like “I didn't go to school. If I would've been able to have that
opportunity I would've been a cop or a detective. But, he’s like, since I was eight years
�old I had to work on the farm or in a factory or work some type of job to help support the
family.”
JS: And he wanted more for you, his children?
PC: He wanted more for the children. Both my parents, my dad wanted more for, well so
did my mother, she wanted us to marry a good man and have a good life and have a good
family.
JS: How often did your parents go back to Mexico?
PC: My parents returned to Mexico one time a year, at least one time a year.
JS: And you all went along?
PC: We all went as a family to Mexico with my parents when they returned.
JS: And your aunt also?
PC: My aunt would also accompany us, as well as my grandmother when she was alive.
JS: Do you always, did you always go back to the village where they grew up?
PC: We always returned to [Allende, Coahuila] which is where my parents grew up. We
had some family in [Sabinas] which is an hour from [Allende]. We would go to [Sabinas]
and [Allende.]
JS: Do you still go back there?
PC: I have not returned to [Allende] in seven years.
JS: Do you have, is there any particular reason or you just haven't been able to go yet?
PC: Before then I would go once a year but I had not gone back since my mother passed
away. I just find it very difficult for me to go back.
JS: What about your siblings? Do they go?
PC: My siblings would go back. My brother would go once a year with my dad and my
sisters would go there every once in awhile.
JS: When they return from there, did, how did they feel coming back from there? Did
they feel they were leaving home or were they glad to be back? Do you remember?
�PC: I thought they were glad to be back but at the same time it was very difficult for them
to leave because like I said we were close to our family and they’re in a different country.
But they were glad to be home because they were used to their surroundings in their own
accommodations but at the same time it was very difficult for leaving them because you
never know what can happen.
JS: I'll bet your mother especially.
PC: My mother had, yes my mother had a very, very hard time with that, especially when
her father was living. She had found it very difficult to leave him. My mom's sister and
brothers still live in Mexico and I'm sure it was very hard for him to leave also because
she was the oldest.
JS: She's the oldest?
PC: Yeah and my dad was also the oldest in his family.
JS: Do relatives come here to visit?
PC: Relatives, my relatives don't come here very often to visit for financial reasons.
They don't, are not able to financially come here as often. If, the only person that may
come about once a year is my mom's sister. We send out for her, we pay for her way, for
her to come because we know financially she cannot afford it.
JS: Do you keep in touch with them in other ways? Do you call?
PC: Yes, we call them very often, we send cards and pictures and things like that. And
when we go down there we drive since were so close to the border, since were so close to
the border we drive to Mexico, we don't fly. And we always pass by Texas to see family
members because we have Austin, Houston, San Antonio, Eagle Pass. And we stop by to
see them and then we head down to Mexico.
JS: Do you stay for a while?
PC: When we go down there we stay down there at least two weeks. During the
summertime we would stay there the whole summer or for a month.
JS: Did your parents, when they got here, did they encourage other people to come up
here to move here, other family members?
PC: My parents did encourage other family members to come up and take advantage of
the work that was available. We did have uncles come up and work periodically. My
grandpa also came and worked here once in a while, my maternal grandfather, as well as
uncles and cousins, they also came up and worked. Not many of them settled here, they
was always returned back to Texas or to Mexico, but we do have a few that came up and
worked.
�JS: How close do you feel your parents were to Mexico?
PC: They were very close. They always referred to things back in Mexico. They always
looking forward to traveling to Mexico.
JS: Did they see it as going home or did they consider this home?
PC: My parents considered that Mexico their home even though they lived here for many
years and we were born and raised here, they considered it their home.
JS: Would you ever consider leaving this country and moving back there?
PC: I would definitely consider moving back to Mexico. It's a whole different, a whole
different world.
JS: You would?
PC: I would consider moving to Mexico. If I was able to financially I would.
JS: When you marry and have children do you want them to, are you going to raise them
in the same type of culture as you were raised?
PC: I do plan to raise them in the same culture I was raised in, definitely. The same
traditions and customs, cultural expectations, yes.
JS: What do you hope for for your children in the future?
PC: I hope obviously to move beyond, to always hopefully be, how should I say this, I
hope my children will obviously, will hopefully gain a lot more than what I did. And
mean yes, I have my college degree, but I hope they do a lot more than what I do and
what I accomplished. And I also hope that while they do that they also hold onto their
culture and hold on to the language and hold on to where we came from. Because I mean
the stories that I have hear, that I hear, that I have heard from my father and all that they
share with me obviously I carry it with me and I hope to pass it on to them and hopefully
they will hold on to that. It's going to be their choice but I hope they do.
JS: Okay this is the last question. How do you feel about the current debate in this
country about immigration and immigrants?
PC: I feel mixed about the immigration debate in this country. I can see both sides of the
debate. I understand both, both sides of the argument but coming from, being the
daughter of a recent immigrant it's very difficult for me to say to I guess side with the
more anti-immigrant sentiment or argument of the debate.
JS: Were your parents legal immigrants?
�PC: My parents were legal immigrants. They became citizens in 1984.
JS: How did they feel about that when they became citizens?
PC: They were very proud of becoming citizens. It did not change things. I mean, yes,
we’re American citizens but they did not feel like they were betraying their country, or
betraying who they are because they knew who they were, but they just felt it was
because of something they needed to do, not because they wanted to do it, but because
they knew they needed to do it.
JS: Your mother felt the same way as your father?
PC: My mother felt the same way as my father did.
JS: Is there anything else you'd like to add?
PC: Not much.
JS: Okay. Thank you.
�
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seager
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Patricia Chavez
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Patricia Chavez
Description
An account of the resource
Patty Chavez was born in Rockford, Illinois. Her parents immigrated to the United States from Mexico.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
January 19, 2008
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Valeri DeCastris
Interviewed March 13, 2008
By Jean Seegers
Midway Village Museum
�Valeri De Castris
Jean Seegers: Can I have your name please?
Valeri DeCastris: My name is Valeri DeCastris.
JS: And what relation are you?
VD: I am the daughter of Valentino DeCastris.
JS: And your mother?
VD : My mother's name was Beatrice Patricia Macaluso.
JS: Sounds Italian.
VD: Sicilian yes.
JS: What do you recollect from growing up? Did you visit with your grandparents often?
VD: Yes we lived away for many years. However during my first five years or so of my life we
lived with my grandmother as was customary in the Italian community to live with relatives.
JS: Was your grandfather passed away at that point?
VD: Yes I never knew my grandfather. He died in the early 1940s. He died from a simple
stomach ulcer. His doctor, who was the physician that all the Italian community visited, Dr.
Magnelia, was on vacation and he wouldn't let another physician examine him. He trusted in
Italian physician and unfortunately he died from peritonitis from a simple stomach ulcer. So I did
not know him but I heard a lot about him from community people because he was quite prominent
and active in not only Democratic politics but also in community development and outreach to the
Italian community who needed assistance in assimilating to this country.
JS: How old was he when he passed away?
VD: 42,I think and he was, as I understand quite dapper and quite prominent and people to this
day talk about him and recall him as a person of importance.
JS: What was your grandmother like?
VD: My grandmother was very beloved by people and loved having people around. She was
rumored to be and I would vouch the kindest person you could ever meet. She fed people
incessantly. Her dinners were, her house was full of people all the time. People in the
neighborhood walked by and as is common in the Italy still they walk all over and there were
neighborhood restaurants and groceries and so people were always strolling about and so they
were always stopping in to see her or she’d be sitting on the porch with other ladies and people
would congregate to discuss the affairs of the city and the neighborhood and the people. Her
dinners were multicourse six and seven course dinners and she was an excellent cook and
nothing made her happier than to feed people. She spoke many times of how wonderful the
United States was and how nice it was. They had a beautiful home, beautiful brick home on
Cunningham Street. She also lived with her father, my great-grandfather and his name was Mr.
Ludovici, Luigi Ludovici, and they lived also on Cunningham Street.
JS: After your father passed away?
�VD: No this was early. My grandmother was born in 1900. My grandfather Ludovici would've
come to this country after that. I'm not certain if he accompanied my grandmother. We do have
her manifest from Ellis Island and we cannot find my grandfather, Orlando DeCastris’ manifest.
JS: What was it like being in a home with her did she teach you a lot?
VD: Well there were so many extended family members around on a daily basis. All the Italian
traditions were carried through. It didn't seem to me at all to be an American home except for
maybe the TV in the bedroom but the traditions and the language was Italian. The people that
frequented were Italian. All the customs were Italian. It really was as if you lifted a scene out of
old world Italy in South Rockford.
JS: You have been to Italy?
VD: Yes I have been from Switzerland south all the way to Sorrento which would be the furthest
south I've been. You know there were a number of social Italian social clubs in the neighborhood
that Italians belonged to. There was a club called the Roman Club on Cunningham Street. There
was the St. Ambrogio Club or St. Ambrose which is celebrating its 90th year this year on
Montague Street. Our family and that patron saint is from Ferentino, Italy where my father's family
is from and that is our sister city with the city of Rockford. There were clubs such as the Aragona
Club that were for the Sicilian population, the Venetian Club in our neighborhood on the same
block we lived on was for the Venetian community and there was the St. Mary's Society on S.
Main St. for I believe the Sicilian population. There was a Lombardi club and the Verdi Club on
Madison Street that are still in existence. These clubs were not only social networks for the
immigrants but they were a way for them to become indoctrinated to the American way of life. For
example the St. Ambrogio Club at the front of the club currently has what is called the
Americanization hall. It's a brick building that was actually originally at St. Anthony's Church for
the Americanization of the Italian immigrants to learn the language and to learn the customs of
the country. St. Anthony's Church is just a few blocks from my home and really was the heart
and soul and still is of the Italian community. If you are Catholic and Rockford you have to go to
your parish near your home. However if you're Italian from any part of the city you can still go to
St. Anthony's Church which kind of bespeaks how important that church was to the culture of the
community and it is celebrating a hundred years next year so it's been there since 1909 and it
helped form the social fabric with the Italian clubs..
JS: Did your grandmother take you to church?
VD: Oh we walked to church. Yes we walked to church every Sunday and came back to a
wonderful Italian pasta dinner.
JS: Was religion, the Catholic faith very important?
VD: Oh my goodness whenever even when the pope even came on TV everybody would have to
be real quiet and yes there was a number of religious artifacts in the home and the Catholic faith
was very strong, no meat on Friday. Christmas Eve was a multicourse dinner as were many
dinners particularly holiday dinners but they were meatless and there were a number of fish
dishes served and meatless pasta and I think what's so striking to me about the neighborhood is
that it was really heavily ethnicized. You could've walked into that neighborhood and except for
the younger generation speaking English and maybe television or more modern appliances than
Italy had perhaps in the 30s or 40s and really not known you were in this country. It was really
that solid of an ethnic enclave.
JS: Now where did you live you didn't live in that neighborhood?
�VD: I lived in that neighborhood every summer virtually and we came there a lot of weekends. I
was there enough to where most people think I went to school at St. Anthony's Grade School.
JS: Where did you go to school?
VD: We were in the Quad cities. My father played at the Plantation in Moline Illinois so I lived for
about I’d say 10 years outside of Rockford and we returned to Rockford when I went to high
school and then in the 1970s when I was in high school the neighborhood was still very Italian
and I think continued that way into the 80s.
JS: Where did you go to school, Boylan?
VD: I went to Boylan yes and I went to a few other high schools as well and five colleges but I
can't stress enough the traditions that were maintained in the home. My father mentioned some
foods but what's now considered gourmet foods were Italian peasant foods, polenta he
mentioned as an example. We ate southern Italian cooking and the cooking is regional just like
th
the country is regional because Italy wasn't unified until the mid-19 century. Because Italy wasn't
unified for centuries, the immigrants from Italy tended to associate mainly and congregate with
people from their own region of Italy. For example the Romans had their own clubs, the
Venetians have their own clubs and Sicilians had their own clubs. Sicilians had different
traditions than even the Romans or the Venetians and there were differences in the foods and
some of the customs as well.
JS: Do you think you could estimate how big of an enclave was that?
VD: Thousands and thousands of people.
JS: On the south side of Rockford?
VD: Yes and everybody had a garden. Everybody grew their own vegetables; everybody knew
each other and looked after other people's children. There was no violence whatsoever and the
homes were very tidy. There were a lot of flowers very reminiscent of what Italy looks like.
Everyone has a garden and everybody has flower boxes. It's very picturesque. My grandmother
Amalia DeCastris, Ludovici DeCastris or Molly which is the Americanization of that name she
spoke many times about the beauty of Italy as did her brothers and sisters and their spouses that
were around our house. All of her family I would say pretty much was in Rockford. All her siblings
and they all were in the same neighborhood. They all socialized together.
JS: Did she do you think she missed Italy?
VD: Oh absolutely I think she missed Italy although they really were grateful to be in America
because at that time Italy was struggling but they created Little Italy here in South Rockford.
There were small grocery stores everywhere. There were taverns. My father's father-- Orlando's- brother Frank, introduced pizza to Rockford at the Victory Club on Cunningham Street and
Dickerman Street and that is recorded in the history books of Rockford. They brought their
traditions such as the time after Christmas (Epiphany) where La Befana, which is an old woman
who visits the children with gifts. That is a custom that came over. I would say for the most part
except for Fourth of July and Memorial Day all our traditions originated in Italy and Sicily. All we
did for Memorial Day was go to cemetery and bring flags and flowers and we would watch
fireworks for Fourth of July but all of our traditions and our foods were mostly Italian. We spent so
much time at our grandmother’s house and there were so many visitors that were really not
Americanized like you would think. They really did bring those traditions.
JS: Did you see as time went by as you got older some of these traditions got left behind?
�VD: They are being left behind because women had more time and they didn't work outside the
home and so they had a lot of time to devote to domesticity. For example they all crocheted on
lovely, lovely linens and they made beautiful hand-made lace that was in every home and on
every pillowcase and on every sheet. Women cooked for days. They made Italian cookies; they
made the Italian desserts. My grandmother made everything from scratch and some of my most
vivid recollections were of her making pasta by hand and drying it on a table in the basement.
There was always a basement kitchen. She often cooked in the basement kitchen because the
home did not have air conditioning at that time and she cooked huge meals and people would
come from all different homes. The holidays, for example Christmas – everyone, all of the
neighbors, all the relatives stopped by at least for a half hour and we would have a little drink of
Rosolio Anisette liquor and some cookies.
JS: Now how old were you when she passed away?
VD: I was. I was born in 1956; I was 27 so. Even when I was away at college I called her every
weekend and you know I was very close to her. I was closer to her than my other grandmother
because I spent more time with her and her other grandchildren were in California until the 70s so
she got to know me better than anybody.
JS: Did she ever say anything about being happy that she was in America.
VD: Absolutely. They were very grateful to be here but they always talked about the beauty of
particularly Rome and Italy and how gorgeous it was and they always were telling stories of the
old country. Men in our neighborhood gathered on street corners and told tales and told stories
and played music. My father learned mandolin from the late State Representatives Zeke Giorgi’s
Georgie's father, Gabriele “Gabby” Giorgi because he always played mandolin next-door to us on
his back porch so there was a lot of music and big bands in the streets and gatherings where
children and families played together. They played games that are still played in Italy where you
actually roll this large cheese down the street or Italian card games and they carried on a number
of street processions with bands on holidays and saints’ feast days, such as the Feast of St.
Anthony and Feast of St. Ambrogio holidays that my father mentioned that is still celebrated at
the St. Ambrogio Club.
JS: Did your grandmother ever talk about when she became a citizen or when both of them
became citizens?
VD: No I don't remember any discussion about that whatsoever or how that went at all. They had
to take a test I'm sure and I bet the Americanization hall helped with that. There were always
people sponsoring people too and would help kind of shepherd them through the process. There
was you know some conflict then as I became a teenager because my grandmother was always
asking me when I was going to get married and that I should have a family and marriage and
family was the most important thing and I kept going to school and she said how much school can
you have and that I should get married. I wore shorter skirts than what was acceptable to her.
She would yell at me about that and that my long hair was all over my face or down my back and
I should tie it back so there was really a lot of traditional values that were in the home and I think
my experience in that neighborhood was like most of the women and the men that grew up
second-generation in that neighborhood because it was really authentic.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seegers
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Valeri DeCastris
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Valeri DeCastris
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 5, 2008
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Valeri DeCastris was born in Rockford, Illinois. Her grandparents immigrated to the United States from Italy in the early 1910s.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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Val DeCastris
Interviewed March 13, 2008
By Jean Seegers
Midway Village Museum
�Jean Seagus: What is your name?
Val DeCastris: Val DeCastris.
JS: Is Val your full name?
VD: Well, my first name is Valentino but I go by Val DeCastris.
JS: Okay. And, where do you live?
VD: 4021 Guilford Road in Rockford, Illinois.
JS: You have a daughter, Valeri?
VD: Yes.
JS: Do you have any other children?
VD: No, just the daughter Valeri.
JS: And you are married?
VD: Yes I am. This is my second marriage.
JS: Okay. And what is your wife’s name?
VD: Marian.
JS: Where were you educated?
VD: At the public schools here in Rockford Illinois.
JS: Which ones did you go to?
VD: Grade school, O.F. Barbour and then high school I went to Roosevelt Junior High,
Washington Jr. High and finally to West High. I graduated in forty-four.
JS: And where did you work?
VD: Well, I have always been a musician all my life so if you want to call that work.
JS: Work and fun?
VD: Right.
JS: When did you start doing that?
�VD: It must’ve been professionally when I got out of the Army which I was around age maybe
20 years old or 21, professionally but I was a musician before that also though.
JS: And you said you were in the Army?
VD: Yes, I was.
JS: Where were you stationed?
VD: In the Philippines, Manila and then finally in Tokyo in Japan.
JS: Did you do any playing when you were in the service?
VD: Well, when I first got in the service I was in the Infantry. I tried to get into the band
because I was a musician but I just could not get in so I would say 95% of my duties were in the
Infantry but I eventually got an opportunity to join the Army band which I was in for the rest of
the duration of the war.
JS: Where did you play? In one particular place?
VD: We played all over Tokyo, Japan, Yokohama, all the service clubs.
JS: What did you play?
VD: I played string bass and the big bass drum for the marching band.
JS: Now where did you learn to play the bass?
VD: I learned here in Rockford - there was a friend of mine who was a bass player years ago and
I’m trying to think of his name now. Anyway, he taught me how to play bass. And then when I
was traveling with an orchestra and I was in San Francisco I studied with the first bass player of
the Symphony, San Francisco Symphony. I studied with him for a while but I would say 80% of
that is all self- taught.
JS: And how long have you been doing that as a career?
VD: Well let’s see now, I have been doing it since I was 12 years old.
JS: And you are how old now?
VD: I am 81 now.
JS: That’s about almost 60 year isn’t it? And where are you playing now? You said that you
were still playing.
�VD: I am playing in a jazz trio at The Gun Club in Beloit and I have been there about four or five
years now, every Saturday. It used to be that I was playing every night but the way things are
today one night a week or two nights a week is plenty for me now.
JS: And are you playing anywhere else?
VD: One Friday a month I play at the Stockholm Inn in Rockford, Illinois and then I play with
different dance clubs in town once in a while. Once in a while they will call me to play for a
dance club dance and they have them at different places every month. But the majority of my
playing is done at the Gun Club in Beloit.
JS: Now what country is your family originally from?
VD: My family is from Italy.
JS: Any particular town?
VD: A little town called Ferentino which is between Naples and Rome.
JS: And when did your parents come here?
VD: Well, my dad came here when he was 15 years of age so that was before I was born of
course. I was born in 1926. He came here when he was 15 years of age, when the First World
War was declared and he actually served in Europe in fact. He came over here, became a citizen
and then got drafted to go into the army and fight the war in France. So that was a long time ago.
JS: That’s World War I?
VD: Right.
JS: And your mother?
VD: She is from the same town and she came here also at I think they were all 16 and 17 years of
age when they all came over.
JS: Did they know each other at that time?
VD: They knew, my dad yeah from Italy but they got married here in America.
JS: They dated and got to know each other in America?
VD: Yeah, right.
JS: Did they come right to Rockford?
�VD: Yes, they came to Rockford from Italy and that’s a funny story. There’s a little funny story
that when my mother landed in New York on Ellis Island they were asking people where they
were going and they wanted to know where “Rockford ill” was at and the people said they never
heard of it. They didn’t know that it was Illinois. They just knew it was Rockford quotation
marks “ill.”
JS: And they came in from New York?
VD: Yeah, through Ellis Island.
JS: They both did, both parents?
VD: Yes.
JS: Do you know what year that was when they came?
VD: No, I don’t.
JS: You said they were 15 or 16 years old?
VD: Yes. It had to be eighteen something.
JS: Did they ever talk about their experiences when they landed at Ellis Island?
VD: My mother did in a way. It was pretty hectic.
JS: What did she remember about it? What did she tell you?
VD: They were so scared to come here. I still don’t believe how they made it here. They didn’t
speak the language, they were teenagers.
JS: Their parents were not with them?
VD: No, my mother’s father came over later. I am recalling now that she used to tell me he
came to visit and he was here for a while and got ill and died here and he is buried here in
Rockford. He never did go back. But my parents never went back to Italy. Once they got here
that was it.
JS: But their parents came later on you are saying?
VD: No, my mother’s father came over later on and he stayed here for a while but he passed
away while he was here.
JS: What did your father do for a living?
VD: He worked at J.I. Case Company for years and he also was an insurance salesman.
�JS: Did your mother work?
VD: No, in the old days women never worked.
JS: Were you an only child?
VD: No, I have a sister.
JS: Is she living?
VD: Yes, she is still living.
JS: Does she live in Rockford?
VD: Yes, she lives in Rockford with five children.
JS: But your parents went to school before they came here right? Did they graduate from high
school?
VD: Well, my dad now he told me he went to like the fourth or fifth grade and that was like
going to high school here but my mother did not have much education. Maybe one or two years
that’s about it. They were so poor in those days that they just couldn’t afford anything.
JS: How did they get to America?
VD: I don’t know how they ever did it; when I stop to think of that I wonder myself; they were
so poor but they still came here.
JS: What do you think made them want to come?
VD: Because there was no work there; it was just terrible conditions. They were starving in
those days.
JS: Why do you think they came to Rockford?
VD: Well, they had a friend that came here first. He’s the one that started it all. He would write
back to them and tell them to come to America at Rockford, Illinois there was a lot of work
there, at that time that time there was in those days. The factories were going full blast then.
JS: And your father worked in hardware?
VD: He worked at J.I Case. They made plows and things for farmers, like John Deere. In fact
that was their competitor, I think, J. I. Case.
JS: They had never come here before that?
VD: No.
�JS: You mentioned they were teenagers. Were there a group of them that came over with them?
VD: That I don’t remember but I presume there were a few of them from the same town that
came over at the same time.
JS: Did they talk about what they did when they got here? Where did they find a place to live?
VD: Well, in those days when they came to Rockford people would have what you called
boarders. People would rent a room and they would have their food and everything there, room
and board. Maybe there were five or six people living in one house. And I don’t know how they
did it because in the old days they had those potbelly stoves instead of furnaces.
JS: Do you know where they lived and when they came here?
VD: Yeah, my mother and dad they lived on Cunningham Street. I remember the address, 902
and 918.
JS: Did you live there too?
VD: I lived at 918. That’s where my daughter lives today.
JS: When they came you said they went to Ellis Island. How did they get out to Rockford?
VD: That I don’t know. I have never found that out. I presume it was a train in those days.
JS: Did they know anybody here before they came?
VD: Yeah, that’s the person that wrote them and told them to come over. It was a distant cousin
of theirs.
JS: You had to have a sponsor at that time right?
VD: Yes, you did.
JS: Did this person help them get settled?
VD: Yeah, because he was familiar where the places were for them to live. I wouldn’t know I’m
just speculating now that’s what they did.
JS: Cunningham area is kind of an Italian enclave isn’t it?
VD: Yeah, in those days it was all Italian neighborhood very clean and neat and music all the
time.
‘
JS: Did any other family members come after your parents came, brothers and sisters of theirs?
�VD: Well, my father’s brothers came way after that. One’s name was Frank and the other was
Natalino.. But this is way afterward . When I say way after that it was way back in the 1920s.
His other siblings stayed in Ferentino, Italy. I forgot when my Uncle Natalino came over here,
the 1940s or 1950s or something like that, after the second world war. My father’s brothers,
were having a bad time there because everything was bombed out and they were just completely
wiped out. In fact, The DeCastris home was bombed and Natalino was injured and his motherin-law killed. So he sent for his brother Natalino. Later, Natalino sent for his family and they’re
all here now except for one son who stayed in Italy.
JS: You said you lived on Cunningham in that area while you were growing up?
VD: Right.
JS: What was your home life like?
VD: Well, my dad never spoke English when he first got here or my mother but he sure learned
because when I was a kid I remember my dad with a dictionary in his hand every day, learning
new words, learning new words. He learned the English language very, very good.
JS: Did he take classes or anything?
VD: No, he just studied on his own. He became a politician.
JS: Did he run for office?
VD: He ran for office. At that time it was the fifth Ward and it was the only Democratic ward in
the whole city of Rockford at the time and of course he would go out and make speeches in
Italian to the Italian people.
JS: He ran for alderman then?
VD: No, he was a Democratic State Central Committeeman here. He was also the Secretary of
Winnebago County Democratic Party at that time. Edward O’Shea was the chairman.
JS: An Irishman?
VD: Yeah, that’s how I get my name Val Eddy. That was Eddie O’Shea. At confirmation I
took his name. He was my sponsor.
JS: So it was just you and your sister and your parents in the home?
VD: Right.
JS: What was your neighborhood like?
�VD: It was a quiet neighborhood, all Italians, hard-working people and they took pride in their
homes and lawns and everything. In those days if you saw one car pass on the street every hour
and a half you were lucky.
JS: Did you play with mainly Italian children then?
VD: Yes, we were all from the same neighborhood. We were all Italian but we all spoke
English. The kids spoke English.
JS: Did your mother?
VD: She spoke very broken English. But my dad was very fluent in English.
JS: Why do you suppose she didn’t?
VD: Because she lived in the neighborhood where all the same women would gather and all
speak Italian. It was one of those gossip things every day.
JS: Did they speak English to each other? Your parents I meant.
VD: No, my dad did when he was with people but my mother was always in Italian with her
friends.
JS: So around the dinner table everybody spoke Italian?
VD: Both ways, I would speak English to my dad and I would speak Italian to my mother. .
JS: And you say your father was pretty fluent?
VD: Yeah, in the language.
JS: Did they encourage you to speak English?
VD: Not really we just automatically did that. We went to school so we just spoke English.
JS: They didn’t try to keep the Italian?
VD: No they never demanded that we speak Italian, no.
JS: Even your mother?
VD: No.
JS: How much school did your parents complete?
VD: My dad I think completed fourth or fifth grade which he told me was equivalent to high
school here in America.
�JS: And then what did he do?
VD: There was nothing to do that’s why they came over here at that young age.
JS: What was your parent’s attitude about school and education?
VD: My dad was a stickler on that; he said get your education that’s the most important thing in
the world.
JS: Is your sister educated?
VD: Yes, she has a high school education also.
JS: So they put a lot of emphasis on education?
VD: Yes, they sure did.
JS: And you went to public school?
VD: I went to O.F. Barbour for grade school.
JS: And how about church where did you go to church?
VD: St. Anthony’s Church which is in South Rockford.
JS: Did you go to college at all?
VD: When I got out of the Army I went to musical College for about three quarters of a year.
VD: Where was that?
VD: In Chicago, Chicago Conservatory of Music.
JS: About a nine-month course?
VD: Right.
JS: And how was that?
VD: I learned a lot there, I studied from a bassist for the Symphony of Chicago, his name was
Fossbender, one of the best in the country and I learned a lot from him.
JS: And then you came back to Rockford?
VD: Right, after the army I came back to Rockford. I no sooner got off the bus and a friend of
mine said what are you doing in Rockford? I said I just got out of the Army and he said do you
�want to play with a band and I said I haven’t gotten home yet let me think about it. And he said
no, no I’ve got to tell you about a guy who is looking for a bass player for his orchestra. His
name was Del Courtney and his band was very popular in the country. He said come here and he
picked up the phone and calls him and says I got this bass player here if you want him. I
couldn’t believe what he was saying. So he puts me on the phone and he says I am Del Courtney
and I am looking for a bass player would you like a job? I says I just got out of the Army. I
can’t do it now but he says well we’ll wait about two or three weeks. To make a long story
short, I joined the band about a month later.
JS: Did they tour around?
VD: He toured the whole country. We played almost every place except the East Coast.
JS: And did you enjoy that?
VD: Oh did I ever, I was just a kid then, I was seeing the country for nothing.
JS: So that was your first job really?
VD: Big time job, yeah.
JS: Have you done any other work besides that, besides music?
VD: No I've always done music all my life.
JS: How did your parents feel about that?
VD: They didn't like it when I first got into it because it's a hard life for one thing and it's not that
steady but for me, God was on my side I guess because I've been playing every single night for
the last 50 years, more than that I think too.
JS: Who were your friends when you were growing up?
VD: Well, mostly the neighborhood friends and then I got to know musicians when you were
playing different groups you get to know different people. One thing leads to another but mainly
when I was a kid it was only the neighborhood kids that we went to school with.
JS: Did you run around with any other kids other than Italian?
VD: Yeah, mostly musicians though.
JS: When you got older right?
VD: Yeah, well I was a musician like when I was 15 years old but I've been playing different
jobs and things that's how I got to know a lot of people too.
JS: Were there any gangs? I know I heard that the Irish and the Italians did a lot of fighting.
�VD: We never did, not in our neighborhood. We had what you call a gang but not the gangs that
they have today, just a group of boys that had their own neighborhoods but we never had any
fights of any kind. Other sections of town did but we didn't.
JS: But it did happen in other areas?
VD: Oh yeah, but not us. I'll tell you one reason we never had any problems. When I was a kid,
I'm talking about when I was maybe 12, 13 or 14 years old. We would be out playing in the
streets and every night at nine o'clock here comes this motorcycle, a three wheeler with this big
heavy policemen, Shoalwalter was his name, he would come up and say “what are you kids
doing here at nine o'clock” and we would scatter, all go home. That was it every single night
that cop came along and told us to go home. But that wouldn't work today though I don't think.
JS: How do you think your parents accepted the American culture?
VD: They loved it, I remember my mother saying in Italian bless America it's a beautiful
country. She could never get over how wonderful it was here.
JS: Did she talk about missing Italy at all?
VD: Oh sure, they missed Italy. They had relatives there.
JS: Were they open to the new ways of doing things here?
VD: Yeah, they were.
JS: Because that's pretty different probably from Italy.
VD: Well, we were in much better shape than they were and we had more work here in those
days. I mean as far as things for the home or how can I say it, their homes were about the same
as they were here but their homes were bombed out. That was World War II and they were in
bad shape and were at war.
JS: Did they keep up a lot of the traditions?
VD: Yes they did.
JS: Like what?
VD: Like for instance, they have a saint from their city, St. Ambrose and we do have a club here
St. Ambrose which I belong to and once a year they have a big feast, it's usually in August and
they celebrate here the same way as they do in Italy today. Just a big feast, bingo games, food
and of course, Italians have to have food you know.
JS: Special kind of food?
�VD: Yeah, Italian sausages, tripe.
JS: Tripe, which is what?
VD: Cow stomach.
JS: Did your mother serve that in your house a lot?
VD: Yeah, my mother was a terrific cook. My daughter still can't figure out how they did it in a
little kitchen like that with two or three pans.
JS: What other kind of food did you have?
VD: Well, in the old days we knew exactly what you were going to eat. Monday was chicken
soup. Tuesday was something else. Wednesday was polenta, which is nothing but corn meal.
You never ate meat on Fridays, that was a mortal sin. Saturday maybe we didn't know what
you're going to eat. Sunday, you had a big feast, chicken soup, spaghetti. I never liked Monday
because it was always soup.
JS: Did your mother always invite a lot of people?
VD: Yes, in those days you always had people over. Your house was open to everybody. You
wouldn’t come into my mother's house unless you would sit down and eat. I used to get mad at
her when she would ask everyone to eat. If you would say no she would say oh yes, you have to
have something and she would put it right in front of you. I would tell her they probably don't
want to eat ma, leave them alone, no they are just bashful she would say.
JS: Did you and your mother or father have disagreements about what to wear or places that you
wanted to go?
VD: No, of course the old days the father, you didn't sass the father.
JS: So there wasn't a clash of cultures too much?
VD: No, what do you mean?
JS: Well, the old culture and the new culture, was there difficulties with you being an American
and them Italian.
VD: No, of course when I was a teenager you didn’t disagree with your parents like they do
today. We never had any problem in that way. We always respected our parents and respected
what they were accomplishing.
JS: Did you ever feel like many teenagers today that your parents embarrassed you?
�VD: Yes, my mother would go from Cunningham Street and go all the way downtown and didn't
know how to speak one word of English and go shopping and come back with whatever she
wanted and she got along alright. I used to get embarrassed when I would go with her places and
I would have to translate and that was an embarrassing thing for me. I would say why can’t you
speak English but today everybody does that.
JS: But she did manage to do that?
VD: Yes, she did it herself. She would go downtown, do shopping and come
back with everything we needed, but I don't know how she did it. But my dad could speak
fluently.
JS: Did you have a car or did she take the bus?
VD: She walked, from Cunningham Street all the way downtown.
JS: And carried groceries back?
VD: Yeah.
JS: Did anybody ever pick on you for being different?
VD: No.
JS: You said you had customs and traditions. Do you still have these customs or traditions in
your home when you were raising your family?
VD: Yeah, we did it in a way. Not like it used to be though. For instance like Christmas Eve
you would never see anybody eating anything but fish on Christmas Eve. And then
at midnight my mother would always leave the table in the dining room full of food for the baby
Jesus to come and have some. We did that for a while but that's all different now.
JS: What other traditions did you grow up with?
VD: There is a feast that they call La Befana which comes after Christmas. We actually
celebrated more than Christmas.
JS: What happened on that day?
VD: It's the same as Christmas, you get gifts and things but you would always get a stocking full
of coal too. One stocking would be filled with coal, the other candy. In the old days they didn't
have money to buy gifts. It was either candy or fruit or they would actually make the cookies for
you.
JS: What did the coal signify?
�VD: That you were bad, the bad things that you did.
JS: And everybody got a piece of coal?
VD: Yeah, you have to be bad sometimes.
JS: Were there any superstitions that you can remember?
VD: Yeah, my mother would always give a superstition, she was deathly afraid of when she
heard an owl.
JS: What did that mean?
VD: Somebody was going to die and sometimes somebody usually did when you heard an owl.
That's kind of scary.
JS: Did your parents feel that it was important for you and your sister to remember your roots?
VD: Not really. No. But they appreciated that we did. They must have known that.
JS: When you were younger did you have an interest in knowing about how they grew up?
VD: Yeah, I used to ask questions all the time.
JS: Did they want to talk about it?
VD: Yeah they use to tell me when we were kids. My aunt, for instance, my mother’s sister, my
mother tells me that she's always complaining if the sun shining its terrible, if it's warm it's too
cold. If they give her this kind of food she doesn't like it it's always different. And she said that
she wanted to become a nun which she should have really because she would’ve been a good
nun. I don't know why I am bringing that up.
JS: Did you find that you've got more interested in it as you got older as you had your own
family?
VD: Yeah, I did. As far as traditions and roots? Yes I did.
JS: And your children are interested?
VD: My daughter is completely interested in it.
JS: How often have you been back?
VD: I've never been there.
JS: You've never got back?
�VD: No, I have never been there.
JS: But you've never gone to visit?
VD: No.
JS: Did your parents ever go back?
VD: No, My daughter’s gone there and saw all of our relatives there.
JS: Do you relatives come to this country?
VD: Yeah I think they have.
JS: Do you keep in touch with friends and relatives?
VD: I don't but my daughter does with the e-mails now-a-days now it's easy to do.
JS: Did your parents encourage your daughter; were they still alive?
VD: Yeah, my mother was.
JS: Did she try to convey what it was like in Italy and all of these traditions and maybe foods and
all that. Did she try to pass it all onto her granddaughter?
VD: I think so. She used to tell her a lot of things about that but she was pretty young at the
time.
JS: Do you feel close to your origins?
VD: Yes, I do.
JS: Would you ever consider leaving this country and go live back in Italy?
VD: No.
JS: Did your parents ever say what they liked most about America?
VD: Just the opportunities that you have here, access to every thing you know, television, foodwise, and elections. They liked the freedom. The main thing is that they got work and they were
paid for their work to become somebody.
JS: How long did it take before they became citizens?
VD: You see I don't know about that. They were citizens through the legal way.
�JS: What do you hope for your own children's children’s future?
VD: The American Dream and happiness and contentment.
JS: How do you feel about the debate that goes on right now about immigrants coming to this
country and illegal immigrants?
VD: I am strongly opposed to that; I think it should all be legally done like my parents had to go
through to become a citizen. Everybody should be able to do that.
JS: How about the immigrants themselves, not the illegals but the regular immigration?
VD: We should have immigration that is what this country is built on but it has to be the legal
way. Why should somebody wait two or three years to get in and someone else just waltzes in
and becomes one. That's not right.
JS: Let's talk about what your dad was in politics. How old were you at the time?
VD: Oh, I must've been 12, 13, or 14 years old and he was a State Central Committeeman. He
took his job to heart, he thought that he was going to help everybody and I remember people
coming over and saying please can you help us out, we need a job, we don't have anything and
he would say I will see what I can do. By God, he would eventually get a job or something for
them to do but he was always helping, helping, helping, trying to help which I was hoping more
politicians would be like that today.
JS: So how long did he do that?
VD: For quite a while.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Language
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English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seegers
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Valentino DeCastris
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Valentino DeCastris
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 5, 2008
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Valentino DeCastris was born in Rockford, Illinois. His parents immigrated to the United States from Italy in the early 1910s.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
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Maria Cavallaro
Interviewed 6/28/2007
By Megan Zuba
Midway Village Museum
�Megan Zuba: What is your name?
Maria Cavallaro: My full name is Maria Santa [Laloja] Cavallaro.
MZ: Are you married?
MC: I am a widow. My husband passed away almost 10 years ago it will be in October.
MZ: Do you have any children?
MC: I had twin girls and one son. My girls they all graduated from Boylan, Carmen and [Vinni] Cavallaro,
they’re twins. That isn’t their married names though and my son is Joseph Martin.
MZ: What country of origin?
MC: Sicily.
MZ: And how long ago did you move to the United States?
MC: Well, I didn't, it was my father that did. I was born here. My mother was born in Chicago but my
father immigrated here in 1907 at the age of 21, and it was in 1907 that he came.
MZ: So why did your dad come do you know?
MC: It was terrible. There was nothing for them to, do, they farmed some but it was very, very hard to
make a living and at that time there was an exodus from Europe to come to America and other places
and he stayed until he was able to come. But I must tell you one thing at that time before they could
come to America or before he could come because I have a document to prove this. He had to prove
from the government from their city government, that there were no impediments why he couldn’t come,
criminal records or anything of that sort records of that sort that would prohibit him from coming, but it was
cleared and I do have a document for that.
MZ: What did he do in Sicily?
MC: He would help heard the sheep, and they farmed and that was all there was and he comes from a
very small village near Catania, and there was just nothing to do and it was very difficult for the people
that lived an everyday life. So he at that time saved the little he could and borrowed what he couldn't and
didn't have and did make the trip to the United States.
MZ: So did he meet his wife in the United States now?
MC: No. He came in 1907. He didn’t meet her until 1916. He traveled around he worked around. My
father was a very small man, 5 foot four, maybe, but he worked manually he worked very hard. He
helped build bridges and build streets and all of this with a pick and shovel no big trucks and for $.15 an
hour when he came and he worked hard but he wasn’t here too long before he realized that unless he
learned because he didn’t know the language; he did know how to read and write in Italian but not in
English and didn't know the language. Furthermore, he had no relatives here he was on his own and he
knew that he had to learn to read and write and he attended night school for a very short time. And then
he self taught himself and he read it he wrote, and he learned the language all by himself.
MZ: How long did he take it to master it?
MC: Well that was over a series of years and he did many different kinds of work here. He couldn't seem
to find his little niche. But at one point, in 1913 after six years of being here he thought it was time to go
�see his family. He had a large family in Italy several brothers and a mother and a father and sister, and
he did go. But before he left he was in a cart or a wagon and a horse and he was selling vegetables in
Lincoln, Nebraska and he had to sell them to help get the fare to go back to Sicily and he did and he was
there I don't know a matter of weeks from the documents I have, it was a matter of a month or so before
he came back in 1913. The ship he came back on left from the south. He went from Sicily, and I wish I
knew the route they took, but I don’t, went to South Hampton England, and came to the United States to
New York. He traveled on a ship that was called the, it slipped my mind that fast. It was a sister ship of
the Titanic, and I do have the manifest of the ship, which lists all the ship all the people that were on the
ship and where they were going and who was going and again he was alone and he did come back. And
after working around again for awhile, he decided he wanted to be a barber and through the help of
somebody who was mentoring him he did learn the trade. In 1916, settled in Hammond Indiana, I’ll erase
that, Calumet City, Illinois. Calumet City is on one side and Hammond, Indiana is right across the street
so it was right on the Indiana Illinois state line and he had his own barbershop and in December of 1916.
he was introduced to my mother. Now dating was not a question at the time it was unheard of. But you
got people that you knew to introduce you and that was it and he got engaged to my mother on New
Year's Day 1917, and they were married on April 29, 1918. My father was 31 years old and my mother
was 17. She would be 18 on the Fourth of July 1918, yes. Not only was he an immigrant. He lived out of
town, and she got married, and I'm amazed at myself at how they did this, but they did what they had to
do at that time, and. They were married, they were married for 43 1/2 years before he passed away and
they had seven children. One who passed away in infancy, so that I had four brothers and my sister. I
had a sister. I was the oldest, and in 1940 my father, Calumet City at the time was a notorious city. It was
not the place my father thought was a place to raise his four boys.
MZ: Where was this?
MC: Calumet City Illinois. He just didn't think we lived. His barber shop just happened to be and we
lived in the same place and he decided through a friend of his who begged him to come to Rockford so
he moved the whole family here. It was the best thing he could have done we loved it here. We were
very happy here, he didn't have a job and he traversed this town by foot and bus and eventually built his
own building on 11th St across from St. Andrew’s Church and was there until he passed away.
MZ: Was that the first time he came to Rockford?
MC: No, who me?
MZ: No, your father.
MC: Well, when he when we were in decision whether do we move or not this friend of his invited him to
come to Rockford and that was in 1940 and that was the first time and he came back and told us what a
wonderful place it was because it was nothing like where we lived, and we liked it very much. And the
boys all graduated here. I had already graduated. My oldest brother had graduated high school, but the
other three hadn't yet. So they went to school here, and established ourselves very well, very, very happy
here.
MZ: What was the first city that your father came to in the United States?
MC: I think it was Canton Ohio, because in Canton, there is a little colony of all these people that came
from the same village that he came from and so they kind of looked over the new ones that came in, just
as my dad did when he lived in Calumet City. We always had people coming in just for a night or two
because they had just come from Italy, and it was the same reason they all came there was no industry of
any kind so they all came. Not that they all came here some went to Canada and other places, but there
was a group that came and at Canton, Ohio there was quite a few of them. But he got out and he tried
everything he was a hard worker, very hard worker, and he found his way. But, but nobody ever gave
him a thing he just worked for it and then he and my mother had all these children. Our house was, we
were poor at that time that was the 1930s we went through the Depression and that and our house was
always full of music. My mother and dad didn't play any instruments, didn't know anything about music,
�but they loved it, and consequently for my sixth birthday I got a piano and that started it. And that piano,
one of my daughters has it at her home.
MZ: So how old were you when you move to Rockford?
MC: I was 22 and I was working for the J.C. Penney Co. and I had worked three years in Hammond
Indiana and I continued 17 more years until I got married in 1954 and then my husband thought he would
like me to stay home and I loved it and a year and a half after we were married I had twin girls and
eighteen months after that I had my son so we had a nice family and the Loggia family itself. Now, you
got to know that when I get married in 54 I was 36 years old I wasn’t a young but I had a younger sister
and two younger brothers that were already married. So the family was growing all along, but I lived
through the Second World War. I was working downtown, and it was very vivid in my mind, on that and
all in this interim my dad he was a gentleman. Now as we were growing up, he would come to our
bedroom at night and lay across our bed my sister and I and he would tell us all about this little village
that he came from. Now, we had no aunts no uncles, he was alone here. We didn't know them; these
people were across the water. We knew they were there. My father and his family never stopped
corresponding however, continuously and he told us the whole thing well I never thought I'd get to see
them since it was such a long ways away, but in 1990. In fact, that's where we were when Amanda was
born. We were in Italy that was my first trip I was 72 years old when I met my first relatives.
MZ: Really it took that long?
MC: And when I got to San Cono, which was the town that he came from it was as though I had been
there before; because my father had my dad explained it so well. He never forgot them. My father was
active in politics. Not that he ran for anything, but he helped out in different little ways that he could. My
father was an avid reader. The newspaper was very important to him and my nephew Louis Loggia has
several scrapbooks that my father kept he kept scrapbooks that he thought were current events of the
time and he wanted to keep him so he has those. My dad had to red leather bound very large books that
I was always intrigued with and they were a pictorial review, which is the news in picture form, and I have
a nephew Michael. We call him big Mike, who has those two books. My father had a very set of religious
books. My father's faith was very important to him. He was a man who said you take your children to
church you don't send them to church and that was very important for him. And so another niece has
those books, and so it goes on and on.
MZ: That’s great. Did your father know anyone that had been living in the United States before he came
here?
MC: He had some friends here but no relatives. Just those in Canton. That's all he didn't know anybody
else.
MZ: I know you mentioned before there was a group from Sicily did he continue ties with them?
MC: Well we went to visit them, Adolph my husband and I and my dad came with one of his friends, and
this friend had a son, who became our fifth brother, because they lived in Chicago, and we just kind of
grew up together. And we were very, very close and even after I got married he and his wife were friends
of my husband and me.
MZ; So where did you live when you were growing up?
MC: Calumet City, Illinois, and it wasn't a very nice place. It was a place that you see, when you're on
the Indiana and Illinois state line in Indiana you have the big factories, a lot of places, [{unintelligible]
Harbor, East Chicago but on Saturday nights they didn't sell liquor in those towns so these workers who
had their Friday night free would all come to Calumet City. Now when they came here what I'm talking
about was a three block length where there was one tavern after the other with houses in between. And
my dad's barbershop in the middle of that, but my father was there 24/7 my mother was there 24/7, and
there would be no hanky panky at any time with these boys but he needn’t have worried because my
�brothers all ended up all being musicians. And that's what my great love was and is but he was
concerned that the environment just wasn't the place for raising children. And so that is why he moved.
MZ: How old were you when you moved?
MC: I was 22.
MZ: So how was your schooling?
MC: That was another thing. My father was definitely for education now when I grew up I graduated
eighth grade in 1932 and in 1936 I graduated high school well in the little Italian community in Calumet
City there were only three Italians that went to high school. Yeah, because at that time we had to help
our parents go out to work and help our parents but my dad said oh no you're going to do it regardless of
what we have to do without you will go to go to high school. Not that I fought it in any way but he wanted
that and we all did graduate from high school.
MZ: So you mean most Italians didn't go?
MC: They were working, they were workaday people, and they had to have help from the family these
large families and it started after I graduated. Then it seemed like everybody start going to high school,
but there weren't many very many at the time of Italian heritage. They just didn't because they had to go
to work and help the family. Just like after I went to work after high school I helped the family too so did
my husband. Now he had immigrant parents too and he had the same background that I had except the
difference was my father married my mother who was American, her parents were Italian, but she was
American. They were immigrants too but in our house we spoke English because my father wanted to
learn how to do it most of the time. If we got company his friends came over they would converse in
Italian, and I loved it. I would rather listen to them talk and the very little Italian that I know today and am
forgetting is when I listen to them talk. I didn't have any formal lessons in it. Now the difference between
that and say my husband's family his mother and dad never learned to speak English, and so they spoke
Italian all the time, while his sisters and he could speak Italian very fluently. So when we went to Sicily in
1990 I could never go to Sicily by myself because I couldn't converse but he was fine.
MZ: So when you were in school the people who were Italian, did you feel like you were friends with
them?
MC: Yeah, there was no, no discrimination of any kind that I'm aware of, and even at that age we had
black people around town that were no different than we were. There weren't very many of them and they
went to school with us. There wasn't even a thought of it,
]
MZ: Did you grow up with any cultural habits that your dad may have brought back?
MC: Just we kept all the especially the religious holidays that went on, and my dad was very active at
church, my dad and my mother both. They were very active at church, and we celebrated the Italian
Christmas, and in Rockford my husband and I were very fortunate in that we were volunteering at the
Grange [unintelligible] museum and did the Italian Christmas and Christmas Eve use to be very big
because we didn't eat any meat on that day. And then a big meal because families got together, we
would have nine or 13 different foods, but no meat until after midnight Mass. Now in Calumet City where
I grew up we didn't do this, but this was an Italian tradition and when we moved to Rockford we picked it
up here. You went to midnight mass, and then you came back and you could have your Italian sausage.
MZ: So when you were 22 when you came to Rockford what did you do then, did you work?
MC: It was very difficult for me because I was out of high school. I went to work at J.C. Penney Co. as a
clerk, but I wasn't a clerk very long before I went into the office where I didn't get to meet a lot of people.
We had no car. There wasn't a time when there was a car that was the beginning of the rumblings of the
Second World War were coming to and so the friends I made were the people I worked with and I walked
�back and forth to work. It was too short a ride for a bus but a long walk for walking. But I did that and I
made friends. And of course I was active in the church choir and that all the time and as I said, my
brothers were musicians and they started playing at a very early age, and they were out all of them, but it
was difficult for me. I didn’t make many friends, they got to know a lot of people, but I had a job that I was
office manager and I did, what is now called human resource work. I did that; I did all the reports I did
everything and I loved it. I hired people for working and I just had a job that I loved dearly and even at the
time that my two brothers then they had gone to war and came back and got married and my sister was
married. I was home with my mother, there were still two of my brothers that were away at school so I
was with my parents a great deal we didn't have a car. We went to visit anybody we get on the bus and
go but I had a wonderful relationship with my mother and dad. It was great, and I just loved every minute
my dad was so interesting. And I just clung to everything he said it was great.
MZ: How long did you work at J.C. Penney's?
MC: 17 years. I got married, and then I had my family, and that the time my girls were getting ready to
graduate from Boyle and I thought I should go back to work to help little bit. And I worked part time again
at J.C. Penney Co. and I was there, but in the interim from 1954 to 1973-74 things had changed so very
much technology came in when I made out the payroll I had to figure all these hours that all these people
worked by hand. There were no technical machines, all of that I prepared and when we paid people we
didn't pay by check. I had to prepare all of the cash for all of these envelopes that had to be filled. It was
a different time so when I went back in 73 it was a whole new ball game completely new. I had quite a
time adjusting, but I was only working part time and after awhile I changed jobs and went to Montgomery
Ward’s and I was in the corporate offices of the advertising department, which was divorced from
anything I had done before. And again it was a new career and I loved every minute of it. I was at that
six years and it was time for us to retire.
MZ: So, you said you didn't meet that many friends when you were working at J.C. Penny?
MC: No I couldn't make too many friends, because it was a different time today you into get in a car in
high school and when you don’t go to high school here that’s where you get to know most of your friends
and I didn’t see but it didn’t bother me because I was and am an avid reader and that took me any place
that I wanted to go. I love to read.
MZ: So do you have any friends maybe from high school that you are still in contact with?
MC: I did but the town is gone now. It isn’t even there anymore. It’s there but nothing is there. All of my
friends are gone. There isn’t anybody there that I know however I have cultivated friends through my
family. I have met a lot of people and then when I got married my husband was very social. We did a lot
of entertaining. We loved doing that and cooking for everybody and we always had a lot of friends.
MZ: Are a lot of them Italian or from the same culture?
MC: No at the time that we got married my husband and I his very best friend was Swedish and mine
was Swedish and we’ve always run the gamut we’ve worked with everybody. We’ve had all kinds of
people at our house.
MZ: Did you share each other’s culture?
MC: Culture and everything. Yes, it’s so interesting. It’s too bad that people in the world can’t get along;
people on a one to one basis can’t get along.
MZ: So you never felt unwelcome?
MC: Never at any time. However I must say that early on the Italians had a very hard time in general here
in Rockford and that was before we came had a very hard time. They were not accepted. They got
menial jobs. They were always hard workers and yeah there was some but I didn’t see it. I never did
�personally and like I said our family we had friends of every denomination and every religion and every
nationality and we embraced all of them.
MZ: Were there any things that you disagreed with your parents about? Maybe what to wear?
MC: My dad and I had a very unique well maybe it wasn’t unique most girls go towards their dad anyway
but he and I had so many things that we agreed on. We would sit down and not on paper exactly but we
would change the town around downtown. He would like this to be that place and I would like it to be the
other place. Being an architect has always been interesting to me. I will take even now my son has given
me several books of nothing but houseplants and I will change them. There is nothing there but I love
doing that. That’s the other thing. I am 89 years old now and I thank God first of all but it’s active. I
cannot just sit. I have to be doing something.
MZ: When did you start having children then?
MC: Well as I said I was almost 38 years old when I had my girls but I didn’t get married until I was 36 but
in the interim I wasn’t just sitting home doing nothing as I said my parents and I did a lot of things
together.
MZ: What did you do for fun?
MC: Well we had picnics that we went to. Socially my dad and my mother loved to dance. We did that,
went to different social events and as the family got bigger you were getting a lot more people into your
circle and events that would happen and we would take care of and as we got older Joe and I volunteered
as I said at the residential home for Italian Christmas and St. Joseph. Have you seen an Italian alter?
MZ: No
MC: You haven’t? You see that’s the Sicilian tradition too. We celebrate that. The church is very
important in our lives and has always been and that’s where you do a lot of work too. My husband always
said that when you don’t think that you have anything to do you have too much time on your hands you
go to your church. You’ll always find something to do and my father was always exactly the same way
but my.dad and I would do a lot of dreaming together.
MZ: So do you pass on all of this special …?
MC: Oh yes definitely I have and as I said until 1990 I knew there was Italy and these people I didn’t
know. Well since then with the computer I am almost computer illiterate but I can write a letter to my
cousin on my computer, push a button and it reverts it to Italian so they can get it over there.
MZ: Do you keep in contact with them?
MC: I do to a point I am still computer shy is what I am but we still oh yeah and when they call usually I
have this one cousin who I can’t explain to anybody the feeling that came over me when I met them. All
of these wonderful people and they embraced us in every possible way. This one cousin calls and I think
she thinks because Sicily is here and America is here she has to shout on the telephone and she will
should and she is speaking to me in Italian and I have the worst time but I get a telephone call. Now I
have one granddaughter who studied in Florence, Italy her last semester, her junior semester and one
morning at four o’clock the phone rang and I thought oh there’s my cousin what will I say. Well I got so
excited I didn’t even turn the lamp on and I hurt my foot, got there and I said hello, nana it’s my
granddaughter. Nana don’t say anything just listen. She was a St. Peters at the Vatican and she said the
Pope is giving his Sunday morning address to all of the people in the square. I get the child when I even
think about it. What a wonderful thing that was and to think that my father couldn’t go back the years from
the time he was 27 till he died he never got to see his family. It hurts me terribly even today but I thank
God and since then when Robin got through with her semester my daughter and her husband and her
other daughter who was already out of college and working in Chicago went to meet her but what they did
�was to meet my relative first in Milan, Italy and they with my daughter and her husband went to meet
Robin off the train. She came in from Florence, Italy and they were in Milan and so my daughter got to
meet my cousins and to me that’s wonderful. Now in Milan and [Brasia] they do speak English so it’s
easier there and Vinny has been back another time afterwards and I just feel so blessed but I do feel
badly that my dad never did get to go back. I’m sure that he is looking at all of us right now.
MZ: Do you think that you will ever go back to Italy?
MC: Not at this point I have too many physical problems that would prevent that but if I could I would, yes
but there is too much traveling and I can’t even stand long enough.
MZ: How long did you stay when you went?
MC: We were there for 31 days, the whole month of May. It was shy a few days.
MZ: So you still keep in touch? Do you talk to your cousins?
MC: Yeah, they will call. I usually get there calls at 4 o’clock in the morning which is about noon on a
Sunday. They’ll get done and they will decide to call. It’s the middle of the night.
MZ: Is there anything you want your children to know about your culture?
MC: My children have been exposed to everything possibly Italian. We have in our home a ceppo which
is an Italian Christmas tree. I don’t know if you have heard of it. Amanda can tell you about it. My
husband saw it for the first time. I never heard about it when I was growing up and even as an adult. St.
Peter’s school has started to expose that and it’s an Italian Christmas tree, it’s a pyramid, a wooden
pyramid and it has four shelves in it and each shelf has a meaning. The first shelf is the manager, God’s
gift to man baby Jesus and the shelf above that is man’s gift from earth. It’s your wheat, pasta and your
wine and your fruits all of that goes on your shelf. On the third shelf are gifts from man to man. These
are special gifts. My cousins give me gifts from Italy. That goes on that shelf and on the top we have a
pineapple which is; maybe you’ll have to come next Christmas to see it. I had all of my great nieces and
nephews come this Christmas and I introduced them to it.
MZ: Where is it at?
MC: At my home. My husband and my son put it together, labor of love. So that’s one thing we keep
constant. All of the holidays, we are all aware of those and we just keep on. The traditions go on and on.
MZ: Have you talked to Emily since she has been in Italy?
MC: No, she won’t be back until next week. I talked to her she was at the house getting some
information on a relative about two weeks before she left and then we had her graduation party. We went
to her graduation party and that was it.
MZ: Are there any hopes that you have for your children and grandchildren?
MC: Oh I certainly do. I feel as though America is made up of all immigrants. It’s how these immigrants
accept us and remember how they [unintelligible.]. As I said my father knew that he wasn’t here on a free
ride. He knew he had to work and he worked very hard. He wasn’t part of any group that was
demonstrating which you get today. He wouldn’t demand or ask for things. He went out and pulled his
boot straps up and he worked for it. You can’t give them that. They’ve got to earn that and he was very
proud to be a citizen. I’m working very hard right now to see if I can find out when he got his citizenship
papers. I have so many things at home but the children know this. The children know all of this and the
stories are endless and even now I will talk to them and I didn’t know that. Well, I have a wealth of
knowledge and that’s all I’ve got. I cling to it. I changed when I went to Italy. I saw my father and what he
went through and what he left. His father never saw if after he was 27 years old. He lived to be 72 and
�they didn’t come here and we didn’t go there. Money was a big factor when we were growing up. They
couldn’t. Today I would have done it different; I would have begged, borrow or do something to get him
there to see them but my mother never had the desire to go there. Yeah she didn’t; not that that kept my
dad from going but I don’t know what she was afraid of going there but she didn’t want to go but after I
went in 1990 I came back and I told my family, my children I’ve got to go back and I don’t know why. Now
Sicily is where our roots and relatives are I named on tape. Many of my pictures are on video and I call it
roots and relatives and I said I’ve got to go back and I couldn’t tell you why. Well then we went to Sicily.
We went to Milan; we met cousins. They left San Cono for the reason my dad did and they we have
cousins in [Brasia]. They’re all first cousins and it was wonderful meeting them and I am so happy my
children got introduced to them. But in 1992 for the first time one cousin and his wife did come and they
were with us for only two days because they traveled from New York to California and came back to
Chicago to leave and we went back to Chicago to meet them when they were leaving for back to Italy. It
was wonderful but they invited us to their son’s wedding in 1993 so my husband and I the two of us went.
MZ: Where was that wedding at?
MC: In [Brasia]. It was wonderful. Just when we got into the Italian wedding where all of the relatives
happened to be there from Italy and Milan. I get the chills just talking about it and everybody was so
happy to see everybody and we had never met and it was great.
MZ: What was the wedding llke?
MC: It was very similar to ours. It was a beautiful mass. They don’t have a bridal party like we do and
they had a witness, a girlfriend and something for the male. They aren’t dressed up in finery like our
bridesmaids are but they have that but their weddings are beautiful and this wedding was at the church
and it was very nice then we went to a very nice, it was way up in the mountains over Lake [Garda] in
[Brasia] and the food was excellent. It was a 4 hour dinner and in between you took time out and then
went back to finish eating and then we all went to the groom’s house and finished the party there and I’ve
got that on tape and I go over that; I’m there when I do that so yes I don’t think that will every die because
I get excited about Italy and I think how much I talked to my father and I wish I could talk to him even
more now but I was very fortunate to have him as long as I did.
MZ: So you said you guys ate a lot of Italian food. What’s your favorite Italian food?
MC; Well my husband was an excellent, excellent cook and we tried everything. We didn’t stick to Italian
food though. We did many things. One year at Italian Festa, have you ever been there?
MZ: Oh yes.
MC: we demonstrated how to make [milke], spinach [milke] and we did the basic part at home on video
and then finished them at the festa and my grandchildren passed out samples. That was one and we
were great for trying anything Italian and any other good food. That’s what we enjoyed doing,
entertaining and cooking for friends and relatives. I had a lot of friends.
MZ: So do you feel like you made Italian food more often?
MC: No we did it and when I was getting married my sisters-in-laws, my husband’s sisters said you are
going to have pasta at least twice a week but then I thought we didn’t do that. Sunday dinners were
usually pasta but we varied that. We didn’t do that. Not that we didn’t like it because we loved it. We
were game to try anything. I must have 5,000 recipes at home. We did a lot of cooking.
MZ: What about the current debate about immigration that’s going on in this country now do you have
any opinions on that?
MC: I have. I was born during World War I. I was born in April and the war ended in November. I lived
through Desert Storm and all of these and Viet Nam. World War II is very vivid because I was working
�downtown and I feel it I know what it was like, I had 4 brothers that went into, not all during the was
but even in peace time. One of my brothers was at Iwo Jima and it was very close to home. He was gone
for three years and two days and I wrote him every single night. I still remember his dog tag numbers.
The other boys went into the service and again my brother [Cono] did play his instruments during war
time so it was very difficult then. But my other brother, my one brother worked on RR they called it for
soldiers that had been in service and they came back and put them on at Puget Sound in Washington
and they would be on water and he would be in the band and they would play for them and at night they
would play for dancing for the soldiers. That’s what he did. My other brother was in the Marines and after
boot camp he did nothing but travel around with the Marines playing for the Marines. They were all
musicians.
MZ: What instruments did they play?
MC: Well they all four played base. My oldest brother, [Cona] plays everything. My other brother Vince
plays only base tuba, my brother [Ange] played clarinet. He sang. He had a beautiful singing voice. My
brothers all played the base. They didn’t all play together. They played with different orchestras. Our
house was always filled with music.
MZ: Do you still play the piano?
MC: Yes I do. I don’t have a piano now. My piano is at my daughters but if I get a chance I play. I don’t
play for anybody else but me though. The boys play for people; I don’t.
MZ: During World War II did you feel that being Italian affected you?
MC: No. We were Americans and that was it. You see I worked downtown at that time. We were
effected greatly by it we had to have these stamps that we had to give out because we couldn’t buy
coffee; we couldn’t buy rubber products but the whole I use the word timber because it’s shaking, nothing
was like it is today. We were very proud if our boy was in the service. We never heard of anybody going
out and complaining about it nobody marching for this. They march for everything now and everybody
was on the same page. We honored them when they came home and we had Gold Star Mothers. They
had gold stars in their windows when they lost a son in the service. It was different. The joy that we
experienced when the war was over was another great thing and when the boys were in the service the
USO use to have dancing for them; it was great. I use to sing in church. My greatest recollection is
Christmas Eve singing Ava Maria at Camp Grant with all of these soldiers at midnight mass. It was the
most dramatic thing that I have ever been that. The choir from St. Anthony’s church sang and I was part
of it and I sang sol and I will never forget that. The Second World War is very vivid to me. I think the
country today is in terrible shape. Nobody can do anything right. No matter what they do it’s the wrong
thing. There’s greed. There’s lies; people cheating all of the time and the worst part is that it doesn’t
bother them. Today it’s not good I feel very badly because I’ve lived through it. Now a lot of people
haven’t lived through it don’t know the difference. I can see the difference, absolutely I can. The
demeanor of the people and the way the media is wrong so many times. It’s sad to see what they did to
New York and 9/11. It’s terrible. We shouldn’t have to live that way and today everybody depends on
somebody else for something. Everybody’s got their hand out. Nobody seems to work for anything or
they work and they are spinning their wheels. I don’t know which.
MZ: It seems that when you grew up everyone was so unified.
MC: Yeah but you know as I said before we were poor but you know what all of our friends were poor so
nobody was trying to keep up with the Joneses. What we had we enjoyed it and that’s the way it was. But
it was a better time. I don’t know who I was telling very recently I feel badly and now when I went to Italy
in 1990 new cousins. No they weren’t new cousins they were old cousins I just met them and they wanted
to know all about how I liked President Clinton and how about Chelsea and what’s his wife’s name?
MZ: Hillary.
�MC: Hillary, yeah that’s right. I said you know I didn’t vote for the man but I said he’s my President and I
will stand behind him. They don’t do that today. If you can knock them down, you knock them down. You
can’t do that. You can’t do that. They are still all human beings and I always feel if I can go to bed at
night with a clear conscience and not have a bad thought in my mind I’ve had a good day.
MZ: Overall living in Rockford
MC: My children are all living in Rockford and now at this point my siblings, I was the oldest, then I had a
sister. The sister is two years younger than I and she’s living at River Bluff. She’s been there six years
and doesn’t know anything. It hurts me so much to even think about it because we were very close and
then my four brothers my next one will be 85 in August and he’s still trying to play his music like he’s been
for 70 years he’s been at it. My brother Vince passed away. My brother Angelo passed away and then
my brother Sal is still here so it’s my brother Sal, my brother [Cono] and I and my sister and now we see
each other and we embrace and we are just happy to see each other. We’re very close and their
grandchildren are mine too. Yeah, we are all one.
MZ: So you’ve had an overall positive experience?
MC: I had a wonderful growing up during the Depression. I remember a lot of things about that. Yes it
was hard and I say things that the younger ones didn’t see but we were united. We all stuck together. I
had a wonderful marriage. I had a terrific husband, just a terrific husband and 3 great children and my
grandchildren I have 7 girls and 1 grandson and all of these people I just love them all and I think God
gives them to us for a very short time but I say they are my prized possession. I don’t mean possession
in that way but I love every one of them. Now I have 2 granddaughters living and working in Chicago. I
have one going to law school at Carbondale and Mark is working in the theater and he’s in Pennsylvania
right now, a dinner theater where he does the staging of it and so they are all finding their little niches and
it’s interesting to see all of them.
MZ: They’re going to keep their culture.
rd
th
MC; Yeah, it will always be there. Eventually I think by the 3 and 4 generation it might leave.
MZ: I hope not.
MC: I hope not too but you see my family the six of us we all married somebody of the same ethnic
background and the same religion. Those are two things that cause problems so many times in
marriages. Well that didn’t happen because we all married the same so we didn’t have to explain those
nd
rd
things we lived them. And we all lived it together. Now when the 2 and 3 generation who’s married
here and who’s married there. I don’t think it’s bad. They bring their culture in with ours. Now when we
have our picnics you don’t know who is going to bring who. It’s fine; come on up.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Megan Zuba
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Maria Cavallaro
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Maria Cavallaro
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
June 28, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Maria Cavallaro was born in Calumet City, Illinois. Her father immigrated to the United States from Sicily in 1907. The family moved to Rockford, Illinois in 1940.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Aurelio De La Rosa
Interviewed June 28, 2007
By Megan Zuba
Midway Village Museum
�Megan Zuba: What is your name?
Aurelio De La Rosa: Aurelio De La Rosa
MZ: And are you married?
AD: No.
MZ: Where do you work?
AD: I am a detective for the Rockford, Illinois Police Department.
MZ: How long have you been working there?
AD: 17 years.
MZ: Where did you originally come from?
AD: From Allende, Coahuila, Mexico which is somewhat of a border town.
MZ: What did you do before you came to the United States like what was your life like?
AD: I don't recall a whole lot of it; I was real young at the time age of four and did what any
other four year old would have done, just hang out.
MZ: So you came with your parents, why did they decide to come here?
AD: Rockford back in the early, early 70s or late 60s, early 70s there were a lot of manufacturing
jobs here and that's what drew my parents here.
MZ: So when you made this decision to come do you remember anything about the traveling
process?
AD: I recall having to go to Mexico City, Mexico to get our visas in line to make the journey
over here and then I also recall bits and pieces of the different locations that I lived in around the
city of Rockford.
MZ: So had you ever been to the United States before you came?
AD: No.
MZ: And then you mentioned you were in other cities before you came to Rockford?
AD: The only other city that I have lived in as a child was Houston, Texas and then that was a
real enjoyable time also.
�MZ: Did you live there before Rockford?
AD: Yes.
MZ: So how come your family decided to come Rockford?
AD: The manufacturing industry was just that much greater here and jobs and wages were better
here than they were in the South.
MZ: So how many people were there in your family when you came?
AD: Three or five total. Both of my parents, I'm the oldest, and then my younger sister and
younger brother.
MZ: Did your family know anyone else living in Rockford?
AD: Yes, to be honest with you, my family was one of the first original families that migrated to
the city of Rockford so the people that we knew, we knew the true friendship and just becoming
acquainted with those individuals.
MZ: Did any of them help you get settled in, get used to the United States or anything?
AD: Some families did that, yes. They helped to make the transition a whole lot easier.
MZ: Were any of the families from Mexico?
AD: Some of the Mexican families that were here had ties, family ties to Texas to cities such as
San Antonio where I had other family members and that's where the link came around.
MZ: So where did you stay when you came to Rockford? Do you remember?
AD: I lived in a home that used to be at the southwest corner of South Main and Loomis. The
structure is no longer there. It's been replaced by a Laundromat and then I used to live down
further on Main by St. Elizabeth and that structure is still there but we made another move over
to the area of West and Morgan and our home is still there and then I grew up in a home at
Loomis and Church. So we made quite a few moves.
MZ: What about now where do you live?
AD: I live in the city of Rockford. I live in the area known as Knightsville historic district area.
I have a nice home there.
MZ: Do you live by yourself or with family?
�AD: I live there right now with my girlfriend and so we coexist together. It's nice. I have two of
her kids that live with us and I have a son who lives with me but at the present time he has gone
to basic training.
MZ: How old is your son?
AD: My son is 18 years old, no 19 years old.
MZ: Does he live in Rockford?
AD: Right now like I said, he is at Fort Leonard Wood for basic training so upon his return he'll
be living at home and going to school.
MZ: Is there anyone else from your immediate neighborhood from Mexico?
AD: You know, not that I know of. I know the street that I live on I only have neighbors on my
left and right and I have the park directly in front of me so I really don't have any neighbors and
my neighbors to the rear aren’t of Mexican origin.
MZ: So any of the families that were friends when you first moved here do you have any ties
with them?
AD: Yes, we still associate with them. We are still friends. They will be longtime friends.
MZ: So where did you go to school?
AD: I went to Barber Elementary initially and then I finished out the school year there and went
to second grade at St. Anthony's Catholic Elementary School which was part of the St. Francis
Consolidated and went through two through four at St. Anthony's, five through six at St. Peter
and Paul and then seven and eight at St. Stanislaus and finished there and went to Boylan Central
Catholic and that's where I graduated high school from.
MZ: In school, how did you feel like you were treated by other kids?
AD: You know my first year in school was real difficult for me. I got picked on a lot because I
wasn't able to respond to people's questions. I wasn't able to interact real well with other kids
and so I got picked on a lot and that was part of the reason for me going from Barber to St.
Anthony's because St. Anthony's was more controlled. There was more disciplined manner. The
nuns there, if any other kids would lash out, they would put them in place and I didn't have that
kind of environment at Barber. It was difficult times.
MZ: Did you ever feel different from anyone else because of where you came from?
AD: No, as a child I really didn't look at the issue of race. I knew kids picked on me because I
was not able to speak English at the time but I didn't find racism was a huge thing, not in the
neighborhood that I grew up in because I grew up in southwest Rockford and growing up in
�southwest Rockford you had Mexicans or Hispanics and then you had Italian population and then
you had your African American population and there were some Polish there, so there was a
good mixture are. I don't really think racism was a huge thing.
MZ: So when did you learn English?
AD: You know what, it was actually one of these things do or die. I had to learn and, I needed to
advance in my school studies so I actually picked it up throughout the year that I was at Barber I
picked up some stuff. Then my first year at St. Anthony's is when I locked it in. I was able to
communicate effectively with the teachers and other students.
MZ: Do you remember what grade you were in?
AD: At St. Anthony's, I was in second grade. I learned it from a young age. At times I keep
learning it hasn’t changed.
MZ: So how was high school?
AD: You know I had a real positive experience at Boylan. There wasn't a huge Hispanic group
that went to Boylan. I would say two to 3% of the population there but it was a positive
experience. I participated in football and I participated in wrestling. The staff there was great.
The rest of the students were real good students and it was because the environment than
everyone was real outgoing and real athletic and things fell into place.
MZ: Why did you decide on Boylan?
AD: Actually my dad decided that for us. My dad had been the traditional head of the household
who in my culture makes all the decisions for the family and being that we went through St.
Anthony's, St. Peter and Paul and St. Stans it was just a regular transition from Catholic grade
school to Catholic high school and environment. So he made that decision for us.
MZ: Did your parents attend church?
AD: Yes, we attended church at St. Peter and Paul.
MZ: So were you guys involved in any other organizations in the community at all?
AD: You know what; growing up as a kid I remember my parents were somewhat involved with
the patriotic Mexican club down on south-central. Nowadays my dad runs the club down there
and so we did things along that nature, things in the community that had ties to Mexican
heritage. So those were the kind of things that we were involved in.
MZ: Do you remember any specific things that you brought over from your culture, habits or
anything?
�AD: You know one of the cultures that we still do practice to date whereas most Americanized
families during Christmas usually have a turkey for meal for our Christmas dinner is real simple.
The same meal that has been served for years and years and what that involves is the ladies come
together and they make a huge batch of tamales and that is the actual meal that has been served
for generations and we kind of kept that tradition, that's one; midnight Mass is another. The
birthday parties, the whole piñata thing, it's still with us that never left. Others haven't but for the
most part that's about it.
MZ: Will you pass it down to your kids?
AD: Oh yeah. I'm not a very good maker of tamales. I just hope that my mom is able to pass it
on to my daughter and that she picks it up and that when she has her own family that she
continues on with that tradition.
MZ: I know that you didn't speak English when you came here but did your parents speak
English?
AD: They didn't speak any English for a long time and part of it being that they were proud and
they wanted to keep their own culture and the other part it was difficult for them to interact with
other adults who weren't of the mindset and weren't real willing to, or were not open to change.
So really they didn't. Really they just hung out with their own friends and that's how it was.
MZ: Did they eventually learn English?
AD: Oh yeah, my dad learned English and my mom actually went through English as a second
language years back but she actually took the initiative to become educated in the English
language and get her vocabulary down so she could communicate effectively with people and my
dad being the man that he was just picked it up. So they don't have a problem with it anymore.
MZ: You mentioned that your family wanted to keep their culture do you feel that they kind of
held off from integrating a little bit to the United States?
AD: You know, I don't think so. My parents have never been one to say as far as you’re talking
the mix of race now, my parents were never that way as far as you are Mexican you will marry
Mexican. My parents were real open with that. All their biggest concern was that I was happy
and my siblings were happy in the choices that they made and that they had a good lifestyle and
that they have a good life together with the other individual.
MZ: Do remember if you guys had a car when you first came here?
AD: You know I don't remember. I can't say that we had a car but there was a car available to us
but it was a car that my dad and my uncle who also migrated here went in on together and we
used to share the car because that was the thing to do. We lived below the economic level and
therefore we had to make things work and that was one way we made things work.
MZ: So after high school what did you decide that it was you wanted to do next?
�AD: Actually it was back in grade school that I wanted to become a police officer. But when I
was in high school my junior year in high school, I made a decision, but given the economic
status of my parents that I was not going to burden them with paying for my education and
college so what I did was I took it upon myself and enlisted in the United States Army and so I
enlisted in my junior year of high school and then upon graduation from high school then I left
and went to Fort Benning Georgia to the infantry training brigade there where I did my basic and
advanced training and I was stationed out Fort Bragg which was a home for elite and special
forces unit. I was assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division working in a reconnaissance unit, a
scout unit. So it was a fun, fun time for me.
MZ: How many years were you in there?
AD: At Fort Bragg, I was there for four years and then I got out and did another four years
combined time between the National Guard and reserves.
MZ: Would you say that was a positive experience?
AD: My time in service was very positive. I got to do a lot: I got to see a lot. I was involved in
the invasion of Panama which took place December of 1989 and during actual invasion in the
fighting I was caught in an ambush and got hit with a hand grenade and so then I had to spend
some time recovering from those wounds.
MZ: Where did you get hit?
AD: I got hit in the lower extremities, my legs and whatnot but through the miracle of medicine I
was able to recover safely and quickly and was back at it again.
MZ: Did you meet a lot of people there?
AD: I made friends in the military that are still my friends today and I'm talking I got out of the
regular army in 1990 and we're into 2007 and I still communicate with some of the guys that I
served with. There is absolutely nothing in this world that compares to the bonds and the
friendships that you make when you serve alongside another individual who is working toward
the same common goal and that's for the freedom of certain individuals and just laying their life
on the line for this country.
MZ: So, now your sons doing that?
AD: Yeah, what happened with my son is last year before he graduated he was going to go enlist
in the regular army and I was a little taken back by it having been a veteran of combat. He is my
one and only son and I was afraid that he would be deployed and then maybe succumb to the
same type of incident that I came to and to lose my son and that part of it is just that I am his
father and I’m dad. I risked my life for country and on a daily basis there were times that I put
my life out there for the community and he sees that as a real selfless act and at times as officers
we put ourselves in harms way just to get the job done and there is no other profession like it. I
�didn't want to lose my son to an act of war but when he came to me that he was going to enlist I
was a little taken aback and became a little upset but we had a conversation, my son wants to
follow in my steps. He went and joined the Illinois National Guard and enlisted and I'm going to
serve my country dad. I've got to be my own man but I will meet you halfway and I'll do this.
So he enlisted for six years in the Illinois National Guard
MZ: It really sounds like you have a great love for this country; did you always feel like that?
AD: You know I am Mexican, born there and I am a proud Mexican but I am American and this
is where my roots are at and I will defend this country to the last. One thing that really, really
upsets me is when people speak in a negative way of our brothers and sisters that are serving
actively in the armed forces or that have served because nobody knows what it's like until you
were there, until you have spent the 36 hours without sleep working your body to complete
failure so that you can get the job done. Nobody knows until you see your brother next to you or
your sister get hit and fall down, nobody knows.
MZ: Did you ever get discouraged?
AD: No, when it initially happened I went through a stage of some hard times but I have to tell
you that when this happened to me it was more of a newer thing so the U.S. Army was real, real
good on treatment all the way around, physically and in having to talk to somebody. I can't say
anything bad about the U.S. Army. It was good.
MZ: After you got hit by the grenade were you scared to go back?
AD: No. What I wanted to do as I lay there in the hospital I wanted to recover and get back to
my guys because I was a sergeant in charge of the squad but I wanted to get back and be there
for the rest of my guys. That was my first concern, the guys that work for me but my injuries
were such that I had to learn how to walk again and how to get through and have used my legs
again so at the time it was quite dramatic.
MZ: How long did your recovery take?
AD: It took about four months. It was four surgeries and four months of therapy and I was back
on my feet and had the means to run. The first thing I did once I was released from therapy, I
went out on a run because I wanted to prove to myself that I wasn't one to be held back by an
incident that I didn't have any control over because I knew I had control over my actions and
therefore I pressed on.
MZ: So the whole overall reflection sounds like it has been a positive experience for you in the
United States. Is there anything that stands out as the best part of the experience like the Army?
AD: Growing up into my manhood the experience that stands out is my overall experience in the
military and I think that it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. It made me the
person that I am today. There are some things about it that I would change but I wouldn't change
�anything. I love the military and if it was possible for me to still be in the military I would still
be there. The one thing that did come to light, I got married while I was in service and my son
and my daughter are the result of me being in service and to my wife who I am no longer married
to but you know one of the things that drove me to want to recover with the ability to get back
and see my kids because at the time I was stationed in Panama when this happened and have not
seen my kids for quite some time so that's what I wanted to do was to get back here and have my
family life with my kids and whatnot. But there were other things in the works that I didn't have
any control over and that happened. Such is life
MZ: So when you came back from the military how old were your kids?
AD: I got out in 1990 my daughter was born in 87 and my son was born in 88 so they were little
still.
MZ: So after you came back is that when you decided to become a cop?
AD: I came back and I was recovered more or less I still had some small injuries that were
healing but they were good enough that I was still working out and running and what I did was I
applied to the Rockford Police Department. They gave me a test date. I showed up for that test
date down at RVC along with 600 other people and went through the physical agility. I passed,
came back for the written exam. I pass that and came back for a psychological, or written and
oral psychological exam and interview before the Board of fire arms police, passed that and was
given a start date on.
MZ: How long did that process take?
AD: It took about seven or eight months. I took the exam in August or September and I got hired
on the first week of April of the following year. It was rather quick.
MZ: So how has your whole experience with Police Department been?
AD: You know what, as far as my experience on the Police Department my experience has been
very, real good. I had some bumpy roads and mind you everybody does but for the most part I
love what I do, I am a full-time instructor for the police department where I teach everything on
the subject matter of fire arms through police tactics as far as entries, I teach use of force, I teach
other law enforcement related subjects but I also serve on the SWAT team so I work actively
with the SWAT team. I am an instructor like I said. I am also a departmental armor that fixes a
weapon when they breakdown. I am department translator so I assist on different interviews
were there is a need for a Spanish-speaking officer. What else do I do? I serve on the awards
committee. I am also the union president and represent the sworn officers for the Rockford
Police Department in bargaining sessions. I teach my own martial arts school in the evening and
I am also involved in the community, I help out with other officers that are involved with the
Special Olympics and I also help out with United Way campaign and just different things that
take place.
MZ: When do you become involved in martial arts?
�AD: I started studying martial arts when I was back in seventh grade and my instructor back then
was a black male by the name of Leonard Smith, just a great, great instructor. Leonard has since
passed on but he was one of these individuals Rockford was fortunate to have and I actually
learned a lot from him and he was key and instrumental in my desire to want to learn more about
the martial arts and throughout time I have studied under Leonard. I studied from John Allen at
the Rockford Karate Academy. I have also studied under other instructors away from Rockford
but those are the two names that stand out here in the community.
MZ: You have a black belt?
AD: Yes.
MZ: Do you teach kids that?
AD: I used to teach kids with the previous group that I used to train with. I don't have the kids
class right now that's actually in the works I am putting that together and it will probably be
about a month before I start taking young students again and I have taught kids from the age of
four on up. Little kids are tough at times you have to make it interesting for them. The kids I
have taught have turned out to be real productive citizens.
MZ: You are going to stay in Rockford?
AD: You know I don't know if Rockford for the rest of my life is in my cards. I know that at
times I deal with some pain as a result of my injuries from the war that I was involved in and so
part of it I live with a level of pain on a daily basis but most of that I can control by working out
an and an Advil here and ibuprofen there. It's just that at times in the winter it does get a little
bad so I suck it up and drive on but I think that I may end up somewhere in Texas in my
retirement.
MZ: Why is that?
AD: I have a lot of family there and I am big on family. I look forward to spending time with
my parents. I look forward to spending time with other family members whenever there is a
holiday of some sort and I think that Texas would be the ideal spot for me, down in the San
Antonio Metro area. That's where I would like to end up.
MZ: Did you say you lived there?
AD: Houston, but Houston is just a little too big for me nowadays so San Antonio Metro area is
looking real good.
MZ: When did you move to Houston?
�AD: You know we moved to Houston back when I was still in grade school it was for a period of
six months. My dad was offered a position down there that he took and then after being there he
decided it wasn't quite what he was looking for and we moved back
MZ: Do your parents live in Rockford?
AD: My parents live in Rockford, yes they do.
MZ: Do you have other family here?
AD: Yes, my brother lives here, my younger brother lives here, and my youngest, littlest sister
live here also.
MZ: So what was the most difficult or hardest part of living in the United States?
AD: You know I don't think there has been any huge, huge obstacle. There have been some hard
times but you know I wouldn't compare them as anything that would have been defeating. It just
so happened that we moved on.
MZ: Do you think that you are going to go back to Mexico?
AD: You know I have actually been looking to purchase land down there. I would like to have a
summer home in Mexico and then a home here in the United States. If I stay in Rockford it will
be one of these things where I will live here six months and then live down in Mexico
somewhere for six months.
MZ: Have you met anyone in the Police Department that is from your hometown?
AD: There is nobody in my department that is from my hometown. No, not really. I'm hoping
that one of these days other Mexicans apply and get hired. We do have some turn around.
There's other agencies that are looking for some qualified individuals and sometimes we lose
individuals that way but you know on the other hand there is some distrust between the Mexican
community and police and we are hoping through time those gaps are bridged.
MZ: What do you do for fun?
AD: I do a couple of things, martial arts is one of my escapes. That's what I do for fun that's
what I do to de-stress but I also have a Harley Davidson. I like to go on the motorcycle rides and
I have an old antique car that I like to tinker on and go on rides as well and I like to shoot my
handgun as well. So those are the kind of things that interest me so I kind of stay in that area.
MZ: Is there anything that was hard for you to adjust to, military or anything?
AD: You know I think that one of the hard things I guess coming back was just dealing with the
undisciplined behavior of the average person whereas in the military yet we work at a level of
�discipline but on their off time we let loose but we still never completely let loose when we were
on base. The adjustment was a little different but that was just a matter of time.
MZ: Are you a naturalized citizen?
AD: Yes, I'm a citizen. Some years back I really couldn't tell you off the top of my head. Here's
the funny thing I actually started into it when I was in service and was never able to finish the
process because of my deployment to Panama so all that paperwork was lost in transition so
when I came back to Rockford I had to restart the whole process again and it was a rather
lengthy process and real bother some with some of the agents that are in the city of Chicago but I
got it some years back and had to go over here to the federal courthouse to do my swearing in
and what not
MZ: Was that exciting?
AD: Yes it was very exciting. It was a huge load off my shoulders to get it. It made it official;
everything that I was feeling, everything I believed in was now official.
MZ: Do you have any feelings or opinions about immigration that is going on now?
AD: You know, I just think that if people would have listened to Greenspan they would have
been educated as far as on what statements they've made on the issue of immigration and I will
just leave it at that.
MZ: So how American do you feel now?
AD: I feel more American than some of the other individuals that I happened to come across on
a daily basis because I look at people here that are born and bred here and I see this antiAmerican actions that they put out and I'm just taken aback and how could you? There are men
and women in the service who are out there putting their lives on the line so that you can display
that behavior because they gave you that right to do so and I am just taken aback by it. But I feel
very American and I would be more than happy to step up to the plate and prove my actions
again.
�
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Megan Zuba
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Aurelio DeLaRosa
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Aurelio DeLaRosa
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
June 28, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Aurelio DeLaRosa was born in Mexico. He immigrated to the United States with his parents and siblings in the early 1970s. After living in Houston, Texas for a short time the family relocated to Rockford, Illinois.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Xuan Dinh
Interviewed 7/28/2007
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Xuan Dinh
Holly: If you can state your first and last name.
Xuan: My first and last name? Okay. My first name is Xuan and my last name is Dinh.
Holly: and could you spell it?
XD: X-U-A-N and D-I-N-H.
HC: Again if you could stay your first and last name.
XD: Well my first name is Xuan, X-U-A-N and my last name is Dinh, D-I-N-H.
HC: And are you married?
XD: Yes I am. Oh I'm sorry. Yes I was.
HC: Okay. And do you have any children?
XD: Yeah, I had three children.
HC: Three children. And educational backgrounds. From child to now, any schooling?
XD: Well, let me remember that. I am too old now you know. Let’s see from the fifth grade to
the first grade in my village, in [unintelligible] in [Shantoa] the center of Vietnam. And then I
spent about two or three more years over there but after that I went to the south. And I studied, I
started from sixth grader in junior cadets and I spent about seven years over there until 1969. I
graduated from that school and also I went to the Air Force, the [VNAF]. And then a year after
that I, in 1971 I came here to study at Sheppard Air Force Base. And when I came back there I
served in the Vietnamese Air Force and at the same time I took classes at the Law University of
Saigon.
And when I was on, in the last year of law, and then the [communists] came to the south and the
south collapsed I was taken to concentration camp and spent about six years both in
concentration camp and on the state farm than I was forced to labor every day without anything
at all okay. And about 10 years under probation of communist regime, until the day I left
Vietnam.
HC: Wow. Where do you, I'm sorry that was just like, I wasn't expecting that right there, sorry.
X D: That's okay.
HC: Where do you work now?
XD: I am working in Rock Valley College Library.
�HC: Okay. And how long have you been there?
XD: I have been working there for five years.
HC: And then where are you from?
XD: I am from Vietnam.
HC: Vietnam. And you mentioned a village outside of Vietnam? Were you...
XD: The Village?
HC: Does it have a name?
XD: That's the..[Lakuei??] village in [Harei??] city. It's the Central of Vietnam.
HC: What did you do before you came here?
XD: Before I came here? In Vietnam? Well it's a funny story. I did a lot of careers over there.
You know after I was released from concentration camp I couldn't do anything at all. Because
they consider us as just like enemy. So I applied for different kind of job like labor job but
never, never accepted. So finally I found myself a job that's suitable, by that time when they
have the open policy. I don't remember exactly what year; it's about 1986, something? And then
I run a private school by myself. And I taught mathematics and English grammar.
HC: Wow. What made you want to come here?
XD: Excuse me?
HC: What made you want to come to the United States?
XD: Okay. First of all, that freedom. And the reason I came, I come here because by that time
we are living under the communist regime. The people over there are just like animals. And
they control every thing. Even they still say very good thing about their regime but in fact very,
very bad thing happen over there. And especially about the freedom of speech, the freedom of
religions, you know I mean the basic rights, human rights. There's nothing there. That make me
coming here.
HC: Okay. When did you decide to come? Was there a point, was there a time, was there “I'm
doing this.”?
XD: Well, let's see. In 1995 I think. By that time there was a policy that anyone who was in
concentration camp can apply to come in here. And I applied. By that time. But I didn't have
money. So my applications still there but they never issued a passport to me. Until one year
after that one of my friends from California came back to Vietnam and see me and he ask me
�“why you still here?” A lot of your friends in America now. I say “well, I have no money to pay
for them.” Then after the talk you know, before I left his house I, he gave me $100. “I hope this
will help you to get the paperwork everything here.” I took it and you know from that point got I
the passport from them and them I came here in 1996. January 28 I remember that day.
HC: The day before my birthday!
XD: Ah!! Okay.
HC: Why did you decide to come to Rockford?
XD: Because one of my friend living here. So he asked me to come here so we can, you know,
at least he know something about this town so he can help me with that.
HC: Sure. Wonderful. And did you know anyone before you came here? In the United States
or Rockford?
XD: Well, before coming here I had an American girlfriend. She's in Texas. Because I came
here to study in 1971. And she would like to be my girlfriend at that time you know and she
asked me to take her back to Vietnam but I say no. It's war time over there. You cannot live
there without that's, you know, environment so. But also I had a lot of American friends here
and that made me upset when I was a concentration camp. Remember about one of my friends
here and especially at that time I dream of the lawn in here you know. Because under the
communist regime nowhere they you can see the lawn. They just plant some kind of vegetable
or whatever for food you know. No lawn like this. I dream about that lawn if only I can see
them one time that I can die it's okay. You can see that. So a lot of people living here they don't
know that this is heaven. They never recognize that one. You know?
HC: The lawn. So many people complain about mowing it! And you dreamed of coming to a
lawn! I love that. Okay. How we've talked about this before, but if you could just describe
again, how long did it take for you to make arrangements to come here and what was involved?
XD: Okay. I think I was lucky because by the time I get interview, I got interview with
American delegation over there. At that time they already normalize the relation between
American and Vietnam over there. It's difficult. And I was, I think my family was the first one
when they got interview. Because usually everyone just get about 10 or 10 minutes or 15
minutes then got out of the office and you know the results. But my family got about 40, 45
minutes. And because of the translator I think she was the security from [inaudible]. And she
asked me “were you in America?” “Yes.” “Can you speak English?” “Yeah, sure.” “So go ahead
and speak English to her.” And I said “sure why not.” And you know I spoke English with the
one who interviewed me and then she asked me if anyone in my family could speak English and
I said “yes.” And she asked everyone in my family she interview in English. All of us.
Although my, our English not as good as American people here but you know at least she could
understand.
HC: Did you teach your family English because of your schooling?
�XD: Yeah.
HC: Okay. And your family, and the family that was being interviewed, what did that consist
of? Who was there with you being interviewed?
XD: My wife, my three children.
HC: Okay. Sorry continue then. So once you've done the interview, in English, which was
probably pretty interesting....
XD: Very interesting you know, because once she asked me about everything I didn't have any at
all. You know why she asked me about the paperwork. I said well the paperwork that the
police, they already took it from me. And this is the copy. And she asked me about the, she
asked me why, why you want to come to America? I said it because I need freedom. And asked
me if they do any bad thing over there for our family. I said yeah sure you know they forced me
to labor without nothing. Paid nothing and then when my children go to school and they say
because your father was working with American side so they give a bad, very bad point to you
know our children. That main even our children's study very good, very smart, but still get low
points. You see. But anyway, I think I was lucky because most of my children, they were very
smart. Even in that condition they still got you know rewards and everything. That mean very,
very tough for them.
HC: One: of the questions I think we answered, have you been to this country before?
XD: Yeah. In 1971 to study management and analysis because at that time I was an Air Force
officer.
HC: And how... did you come alone when you came to America or did you come with people
that you knew?
XD: You know when, what time?
HC: Oh I'm sorry. When you came over to the United, not with the Air Force, but in 1996.
XD: 96? With my family. Yeah.
HC: And how long did it take to make the arrangements to come over here? Like once the
paperwork went through and you were coming over, did you have to make more arrangements?
XD: No. Just after the interview they say okay to our family then everything just go you know
about three months. Very fast.
HC: Okay. And how does you travel here, airplane...
�XD: Airplane. We traveled from [unintelligible] in Saigon to Thailand, to Bangkok Thailand,
and stayed there over there for about 10 hours or something like that and then to Seattle Port and
from Seattle to I think O'Hare and from O'Hare we took another plane to Rockford. See...
HC: Fun! So you actually flew right into Rockford interesting. Let's see... what was the journey
like, like on the plane who did you meet, what did you say, did someone travel along with your
family or you just like “See Ya!”
XD: Well, you know, I don't know how to describe my emotion by that time when I, the first
time when I see the foreigner because you know that's the, the time that I can speak English
again you know. Because in Vietnam if I speak English to foreigner they consider me as an
agent of CIA. And in fact they kept check on me until the last day I left Vietnam. There's a one,
he's major in communist army, kept track on me all the time. And it was his wife who told me
about that. You see how nice because you know a week before I left Vietnam I made a small
party and I invite everyone in our [quarter] area to come and have dinner with our family. And
also before I left Vietnam I had to give the government our house so they can sign the paperwork
for us to go to the airport otherwise they didn't.
HC: Okay so you gave over your land and house?
XD: Yes. That's their requirements. Because you are living here and you are, you was you
know something, whatever, and then you had to sign this one give it to us and they said that they
would manage our house, our property. That's what they said but in fact they took it and sold it
to another one.
HC: Now what did you bring with you? Did you pack? What did you bring?
XD: We brought with us just clothes, something like that. Nothing else.
HC: Did you have bags of stuff?
XD: Yah.
HC: Or a suitcase?
XD: A suitcase. Each of us. With you know some clothes that our friend give us.
HC: And so when you got on the plane, you actually talked, spoke English to the stewardess and
thought wow look at me.
XD: Yeah oh yeah you see!
HC: that's exciting! Let's see... in your stop in Taiwan did you...
XD: No, no in Thailand, Bangkok. Then from Thailand we stopped by Japan, Kyoto or Tokyo, I
don't remember. But the newest airport over there. And then from that to Seattle.
�HC: Any of those stops did you actually transfer to another plane, did you spend some time in
any of these locations? Especially like, in Seattle?
XD: Just like in Thailand, we stopped there for 10 hours to transfer to another airline. Then,
when we stopped by Japan, we transferred to another airline and Seattle we transferred to another
one. And then O'Hare.
HC: What did your family think when they got out at Seattle and they were transferred, were
they like “wow”. . .
XD: Wow, everything you know big for them but for me I used to that size and so, okay. Good
to see all of this again.
HC: Let's see... did... how did you get settled when you first came here? You said you came to
see, came to see a friend who got you here. What happened when you got here then? How did
you get settled? You were picked up at the Rockford Airport?
XD: Yeah. He picked up us at Rockford and then I stay one night over his house, before that he
already had contact with the church you know and they get some, an apartment for me. And
everything so the day after that I went to the apartment and then lived there and it was nice
because the government give us I don't remember, eight months or one year of food and...
HC: Rent? Like foods and...
XD: Rent, the food, though what they call?
HC: Utilities?
XD: Yeah. Whatever. Just like public aid you know. They give us like that one.
HC: Sure. Yeah.
XD: And we just took it about three months. After three months we, my wife and I found a job
you know and we called them to cancel all. Because it's interesting, one of the ladies asked me
why. I say, well because we just got a job so I just want to let you know that cancel please. This
just use it for anyone else who need it. And the answer is, wow will you please say it again! I
said would you please cancel my...
HC: Public aid or...
XD: Yeah or whatever. I don't remember now. But she says you surprise me. Why? I never, I
never heard anything like this before. People are always asking for more and more and you are
asking for cancel. I said well because we got a job now we don't need that anymore. Save it
there for someone else. And you know what she said because you are so good, so we continue to
�offer you Medicare for the whole year and also if you have a car you need to fix it or something
just bring your car here we it's better we give you a check to fix it.
HC: Wow. That's wonderful. That's a great, that's great. When you give you get. Okay. Did
you know any of... let's see... now we get that answer. Did you know anybody... is anyone you
knew when you came here, especially in Rockford, were they from your country or were they
from even your village and your community? From Vietnam to here?
XD: Yeah, I, I have known a lot of people around here that from Vietnam, not from my village.
HC: Sure. But not from Vietnam. Let's see... what is your current living arrangement? You had
an apartment that was set up for you the first year that you got here.
XD: Not first year but first six months.
HC: Six months. And did you stay in that apartment you and your family?
XD: Yeah. But after six months I change to another apartment. Because I found another
apartment that more convenient, cheaper and also...
HC: You got a job...
XD: I got a job. And I continued to go to school to get some, I mean I, at that time what... the
setup machine, Mills and Lathe and programming something like that.
HC: And where did you work?
XD: The first year I worked for... I can't remember that name right now... but that company for
the first year and after that I apply for another job at Ingersoll. And I worked for Ingersoll
almost from four years and a half until the day they sold you know and they laid off all of us.
Then I came back to the school again and I spent about three years, two years and a half, to study
and I graduated and got another associate it here. And then I applied for another job until now.
HC: And what are you currently doing? At the library?
XD: Library. I am working in serials. I am responsible for periodicals, microfilm, or something
like that. Helping people. And interlibrary loan.
HC: And... let's see... did or does, and this question you might have to reword for me... did or
does your visa limit you to the kind of jobs you can do? Are you, you're not here on a visa
though is that correct? Are you on a Green card or a visa or are you becoming a citizen?
XD: I am an American citizen. My whole family.
HC: Your whole family. And when did you become a citizen?
�XD: Right, five years after we came here.
HC: And did you go through like class, paperwork and then a ceremony? How did that work?
XD: We just applied for the US citizenship and then we just learned about some question about
that because it was very, very easy for us to know everything. Just, you know American history
we already learned that when we were in high school and especially read about three branches
you know it's something like that. It's very popular all over the world you know. So nothing.
HC: You just knew it like that! Let's see... where you see yourself in five years?
XD: Excuse me?
HC: Where do see yourself in five years?
XD: In five years? Where? From now or what?
HC: In life, where, here, physically. What do you see yourself doing and where will you be in
five years?
XD: In five years? Okay. You know that, if you know that before we came here there's no
Vietnamese Buddhist temple in Rockford. And after we came here and we asked our my friends
and our community then we collect money and we build Vietnamese Buddhist temple here. And
my job is now is to try to help people and also to help our community in here to make it better
and better. So in five years I can see that I still in Rockford and helping people doing whatever
they need that I can do for them. And also we try to transfer on our knowledge and Vietnamese
culture onto the younger generation so they can continue to keep that one and mix with
American culture so we enrich American culture here. And also we try to maintain the moral
and civic order the young generation to keep its better and better in here.
HC: Quinn was telling me about what the Buddhist, what the temple is doing, the Vietnamese
temple and it just sounds so wonderful. She's like, were teaching Vietnamese language with
those who were born here and we have a service but we have Sunday school, she called it. So it
just sounds so wonderful. And so when you hear of people coming from Vietnam over here, do
you try to then make relationship with them to be a part of the temple as well? Like if you've
heard coming to Rockford may be another family that was coming over here? Would you try to
bring them bring them into that community? As like as an immigrant?
XD: In fact we try to help anyone that needs and we don't convince them to become Buddhists.
Never. Never. We just convince them to do the right thing, to do the good thing, keep their
religion. You see? We never convince people to become Buddhists unless they want. They ask
me, okay now I want to become Buddhists how can I do something like that? Then I can help
them. Otherwise we just encourage them to do the good thing, avoid doing bad thing, purifying
their mind everyday to make everything good to create the heaven right here. Right now. That's
what we need.
�HC: Yes it is it is. Your knowledge of English, how does it affect you and your family when you
first came here?
XD: Well I tell you what; I think that's the best we have. We consider. We don't need money we
don't need anything else except knowledge. And especially living in America we need English
to contact with people. And with that we can do everything. We've got everything.
HC: Are there any other organizations or community that groups you belong to besides the
Vietnamese temple? Is there anything else?
XD: No. I don't think so. Because with us the Vietnamese Buddhist temple just a place to help
people to make people better and better. And that's what we need, we don't need anything else.
HC: Okay. How did it feel to come to a foreign country?
XD: Excuse me?
HC: How did it feel to come to a foreign country when you got here?
XD: For me? Well, because you know that we were in Vietnam just like the bottom of the hell.
Okay. So any, any kind of foreign country with us consider heaven.
HC: I'm not to get anything bad out of you about America I can tell that one right now you're all
over it. Okay. How did people treat you when you arrived here?
XD: They are so nice. Yeah they were so nice. And they've been so nice to me. And so far you
know wherever I live people around me become my good friends. Even that's American
Mexican or whatever. They become my closer friends immediately.
HC: I can tell that you make it very easy. Were there any people that you didn't get along with in
your neighborhood or ever felt unwelcome once you had been here for awhile? Anything like
that.
XD: Not so far.
HC: Not so far. Okay. And our last question, it's a group of questions, but it's a reflection.
What did you think about the country before you came and has your ideas changed on that?
XD: This country? Or my country?
HC: This country. Like you had been, you've been saying you thought of it as heaven. Have
your ideas changed at all?
XD: Well still America where I living now. Still the heaven. Because people who living here,
they may make it different but for me it's still heaven. And I've tried to help people to improve
their knowledge about the life about how to contribute themselves to the community. Do not ask
�the community what the, the community do for them. Just ask them what they haven't done for
the community? Continue to provide for community to do their parts to keep it better and better
and you know that heaven or the hell just come from your mind. If you do the good thing this
thing will be heaven. If you did a bad thing it could be the hell immediately.
HC: That's very true. Has your move here turned out like you thought it would?
XD: Yeah. You know what the last thing living in America is you can see whatever you will be
in the future. You can see that.
HC: What has been, I know we've kind of said this, what has been the best part of what you've
done coming over here, what's been the best part?
XD: My part or what?
HC: Yeah what's been the best part of coming here?
XD: The best part of coming here? As I told you the best part of coming here is that you can do
whatever you want to be. If you have ability to do so.
HC: What has been the hardest were the most disappointing part?
XD: So far I haven’t seen anything like that.
HC: Do you miss anything from your former home?
XD: Well, I miss a lot of my friends the friendship over there and I miss my country sure. But
when I just talk about the way that communist regime treat people over there then everything
disappear. Now I just want to try to do the best that I can so I can support the people over there.
And I will do the best I can to help them get the human rights and to build our country better and
better without communists that's what I want.
HC: Have you gone back to visit since you moved here?
XD: Yeah. I think three times.
HC: Three times.
XD: Yeah but at every time I came back there it was nice to see my friends again but I just want
to get out of that as soon as possible because of the way that the police and the government over
there treat the people.
HC: Were you there for to visit family?
XD: Yeah. I just came to visit my family and my friends and my students over there.
�HC: What you like to do for fun?
XD: For fun? Well if I can do anything that make people happy that’s my fun.
HC: Has there been anything difficult to adjust to while living here in America or Rockford?
XD: I don't think so. At least for myself.
HC: And were you at all nervous about thinking to move here and settling down? Before, in
Vietnam, were you nervous about it at all?
XD: No. The reason is because the way use to live under communist regime so we consider
always that we be ready to move anywhere. Anywhere that grass can grow we can live that's
what I think.
HC: And for your children, what you want them to know about your culture of your homeland?
XD: I want them to know most of Vietnamese culture and to get along with our moral civic that
mean respecting people, helping people, doing a good thing, not doing any bad thing at all.
Always consider about people's happiness do not consider about yourself because it that the
selfish way. And if, the more you consider about people's happiness the more, the happier you
are. That's the way we do.
HC: How old are your children?
XD: They are 34, 27, and 23 I think.
HC: And you said you were married? You're not married anymore?
XD: In fact I still have a wife and children but since I became a monk I give up everything. I
give up everything. Now that mean even they are my wife or they are my children but because
I'm a monk I never got back with any relation with them. Then I consider them just like any
member of our temple.
HC: And today lives in Rockford with you?
XD: Yeah. And you see the hardest part of being a monk when you were married, that mean
they know that you are husbands or wife of this one or this one but because you're a monk. So
you give up everything. And you have to use your mind to control everything. And if you
become a good monk or a bad monk depends on what you control. And that's the best part in
Buddhism. That mean no one control you at all. You control yourself. And if everyone can do
that we can make this world heaven here.
HC: Everywhere can be heaven.
XD: Yeah. Everywhere.
�HC: How do you feel, two more questions, how do you feel about the current debate in this
country about immigration and immigrants?
XD: Well I think first of all, in order to come here you should have a permit, permission from the
government just like your house okay. If you get a very big house and someone have no house
just come to live because you love them you let them live there. But what happened if they lived
there for a while and then they say oh this is my house and then they went more and more and
then ask you to give them a part of that one. What do you think? Without your permission?
Any country anywhere should have their own law. You have to follow the law. Just like when I,
we come here, we had to speak English. We had to learn how to speak English. I cannot come
in here and ask you, you have to speak Vietnamese. You have to learn Vietnamese order to talk
to me. No.
HC: Okay. Good answer. And then what year were you born? And when's your birthday?
XD: My birthday is March 3.
HC: And what year were you born?
XD: In fact I was born in 1950.
HC: 1950? Good. Well that's it. Is there anything that you want to add to your interview, just a
reflection on anything you've said or an elaboration or add any stories that you want to put in?
XD: No because I am here for interviews so it depends on your question okay. Anyway I just
want to tell people that this is my advice. Knowledge is power. Try to get as much as you can.
Improve yourself every day. And once again, in order to create the heaven anywhere, you
should avoid doing any bad things. Try to do every good thing, even if tiny thing. And always
purify your minds. That's it. That's what my last message.
HC: That's perfect. Thank you.
�
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Xuan Dinh
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Xuan Dinh
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
July 28, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Xuan Dinh was born in Vietnam. He immigrated to the United States and Rockford, Illinois in 1995.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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8f5e32cf83ca51591174c5ea356d1a86
PDF Text
Text
Quynh Do
Interviewed July 28, 2007
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Holli Connell: If you could state your first and last name.
Quynh Do: ‘kay. Quynh Do.
HC: Okay, and could you spell it please?
QD: Q U Y N H and the last name is D O.
HC: Great. Okay if you could please again state your first and last name.
QD: Quynh Do.
HC: And are you married?
QD: No.
HC: Do you have any children?
QD: No.
HC: What is your educational background?
QD: Well, I came here when I was two so I started school in the US and, however, while I was
learning English I, my mom also taught me Vietnamese so I'm fluent in Vietnamese and I can
read and write.
HC: Wow, that's exciting. Do you work?
QD: Yea.
HC: Okay, where do you work?
QD: I work at the Great Wall restaurant? It’s a Chinese restaurant and I work as a hostess.
HC: And, how long have you worked there?
QD: A little over a year.
HC: Fantastic. And where are you from?
QD: I am from Vietnam.
HC: Vietnam. And when did you come over here?
QD: ‘91. 1991.
�HC: 1991 and, what is your birth date?
QD: January 17, 1989.
HC: okay. …one moment… perfect. Um, let’s see, what was your life like before you came over
here - though you're only two years old, do you have any information maybe your parents told
you about your family life before you came over?
QD: Well my dad was a dentist and my mom a seamstress so we were pretty middle-class I
guess. But we lived in a small village outside of Saigon in the South.
HC: And the name of the village?
QD: Um, well like the smaller? Cuz there’s a lot of, I guess, like the bigger then the smaller that
you don't really know but it was called Thungheap, so…
HC: Wonderful.
QD: Yeah.
HC: That's fine. And, what made your parents decide to come here?
QD: Basically the freedoms that they know that they’re gonna have because, at that time the
whole like, backlash of the war and everything so it was a bit of oppressive.
HC: Okay. Can I just have you push your hair back?
QD: Oh, sorry.
HC: Oh, that’s okay, you’re fine. You’re fine. Um, when you came here, did your parents decide
on Rockford, to come to the United States?
QD: We originally came to, Dallas-Fort Worth because my parents had friends there, because we
were delayed. We didn't go directly from Vietnam to the US. We went to the Philippines for
seven months.
HC: Wow, and was that for a reason? Were you held up there or were you just visiting?
QD: Uh, yea…Ah, no, it was like a stop, like we were detained there for a while to maybe like. .
. cause they learned English and went to school there so that they understood like the language
and so there was like, it wasn't just our family it was a very large group.
HC: Uh, your parents learned English in the Philippines?
QD: …in the Philippines.
�HC: …before they came over.
QD: Yeah.
HC: That’s fantastic.
QD: Yeah. To help adjust I guess.
HC: And how was that set up? Is that through immigration of the United States that…
QD: Yeah, because my mom, her dad was American from the war. And so that's how we had a
chance to come over here.
HC: Okay. Fantastic. Wow. Had your parents ever been to this country before?
QD: No.
HC: Okay. Your, your grandfather then, did he stay in Vietnam?
QD: No…
HC: …with your grandmother?
QD: No, he, he died.
HC: Oh.
QD: Yeah, he passed away.
HC: Okay. So your parents had never been to the United States before?
QD: No.
HC: They had just heard or had an understanding of what the United States was like . . .
QD: Yes.
HC: …through media of newspapers?
QD: Um, I guess just everything. How and also they just kinda wanted to get out.
HC: Sure.
QD: …so…
�HC: Okay. How long did it, do you think, if you think you can answer this, how long did it take
to make arrangements to come here?. . . Not sure?
QD: Um, I’m not sure. But it did take a while and a lot of, I remember they had to be questioned
and interviewed before they could even go like, arrange their trip to the Philippines so. It was
quite a bit of effort.
HC: With seven months in the Philippines added onto that . . .
QD: Yeah.
HC: …maybe possibly over a year or something it sounds like. Wow.
QD: Yeah.
HC: Um, and again, did you stop or stay anywhere very long before coming to Rockford?
QD: The Philippines for seven months.
HC: And then to…
QD: Dallas and Fort Worth for I think three weeks.
HC: Okay, did they know anybody when they came here?
QD: Well through immigration I guess they got a few contacts that would help them adjust and
help them find jobs and homes and what not, so.
HC: And is that what brought them to Rockford is those contacts?
QD: Yeah, because we had another man from the, our same village, and he went to
Chicago and then he had a contacts here in Rockford and so he moved here and then he said that
it was really nice here and so my parents decided to come to Rockford because, it was my
parents, me and my grandmother. She lives with us.
HC: Oh. Fantastic.
QD: Yeah.
HC: Let’s see. And of course the question is did you come along with friends or family
members?
QD: With family.
HC: Did they, did they have any description of what the travel was like coming here? Did you
fly to the Philippines?
�QD: We flew.
HC: You flew.
QD: Yes.
HC: Let’s see, have you met anybody here who was from your village or even country then since
you've been here?
QD: Yes, there is a medium-sized Vietnamese community here so. But yeah there have been a
few people in the village or in the area but a lot more people are from the city.
HC: Okay. Where did you first stay when he arrived in Rockford?
QD: Um, one of the contacts one of the, one of my parents’ friends. So we stayed at his house I
think for like a week or so and then we moved into an apartment
HC: Okay, and what area was that?
QD: It was by Kishwaukee, 6th St., that area.
HC: What is your current living arrangement?
QD: We live um, right, it’s like the corner of Perryville and East State. Like that area. Like
around here. It’s like 5 minutes away from here. So, and it’s a home.
HC: You own a home?
QD: Yeah. Right.
HC: Or your parents…
QD: Yeah…
HC: …own a home, sorry. And you live with who in your home?
QD: My parents, my grandmother, and my sister. She was born here.
HC: She was born here. Okay. And is there, we already asked that question. I kind of went into
it. Did your parents have a job or did they go to school when they arrived here?
QD: Um, well, they had to find a job. They went to Anderson Packaging because there was no
way my dad could go back and get a dental, like an American dental degree so…
HC: Okay. Did both of them work at Anderson?
�QD: Yeah, for a while and then my dad found a job at a tool factory. Elco? And my mom started
working at restaurants and she works at Nippon right now.
HC: Yeah, let’s see. Do, when you came over to with your family and this is specifically about
you is, did you have a visa when you came over? How did you… was there paperwork involved?
Did you become a citizen? How did that come about for yourself?
QD: Yeah, yeah there was paperwork but it wasn't until my parents tested and became citizens
that I became a citizen as well.
HC: You automatically?
QD: I think they filled out some paperwork and then I went into Chicago and had to take like an
oath and everything but I personally didn’t take a test because I was 11 or 12 years old at the
time.
HC: Okay. So when you came over here you weren't, were you, you weren’t on a visa or
anything. You were on a permanent…
QD: I think we all had green cards if that’s …
HC: Yes. And your family works outside the household. You have a job as well. Where do you
see yourself in five years?
QD: Well, after Yale, I am premedical so I, plan to go to medical school.
HC: Anything specific?
QD: Well maybe continue with the Ivys. I don’t really know.
HC: That’s the whole reason to take the classes ‘pre’ so you can figure out what you want to do
there I guess. Okay, how did your family first get around when they got here? Bus, car, friends?
QD: Car, but friends. So it wasn’t a while until they got a car.
HC: Okay. Was it hard do you think finding your way around Rockford at first?
QD: I think because, even though Rockford’s not like the biggest city it still is a shock because,
well, I, like, I’m speaking for my parents but, in Vietnam the roads are still like dirt and so,
coming here everything’s very clean and very nice and just very big so. Much on a larger scale I
guess.
HC: Great. Did it take, how long did it take before maybe your family was comfortable in
Rockford, do you think?
�QD: I think maybe, because also the climate, they, they wanted to see what snow was like that's
why wouldn't stay in Texas. They wanted to come here because there was snow here and it was
colder I guess. It’s different and so and they were looking for something like that.
HC: Nice. That’s fun and I’m sure now he thinks “I’m shoveling all the time…”
QD: Yeah
HC: But, yeah….
QD: They want to move to California now! So we'll see…
HC: So funny! Okay, so we determined, did you or any of your family speak English upon
arrival in Rockford?
QD: Well, the little that they learned in the schools in the Philippines.
HC: How did they learn English then after? How did they continue learning English?
QD: Through working I guess. But they also took classes. I don’t, I'm not sure where but it was
like an ESL class and so, yeah, they learned through that.
HC: Okay. How did, how did your family integrate itself, themselves into the community? Did
they join anything did they become part of groups or anything like that?
QD: Well, we were one of the, well after we got established I guess, around maybe 2, 2000 we
started. . . well we always had contacts with other Vietnamese families here. It’s a relatively
close group I guess, and we, there was no Vietnamese Buddhist temple. And so we kind of
started like an organization for it. And it used to be from like out of our house and the finally we
got more and more people and, so then we started the, we were one of the main families I guess
that started the temple in Rockford, so.
HC: Wonderful. I didn’t realize that. Fantastic. And, the temple is again, the name of the temple
and what it is?
QD: Well it’s the Vietnamese Buddhist Temple of Rockford but the Vietnamese name is the
[Thaplam] Temple.
HC: Okay. And the temple, would be, equivalent to like your church? Or is it more like, in
layman's terms, a lodge? How is the temple used for your community?
QD: Well every Sunday there is service so, kinda like the church. Then there's also a Sunday
school where, we teach the kids, the various kids now, here, that are born here, like Vietnamese
and how to read and write so it's basically oh, a community place that everyone can get together,
and, while learning about religion also, keeping our heritage alive.
�HC: That's fabulous. Wonderful. Are there other organizations that you belong to in the
community?
QD: Well, through school I’m I am a part of National Honor Society, Key Club, student council,
I’m officers in those clubs as well and we, we just, we do a lot in the community. Last year when
I was NHS vice president, we, I don't know if you know the Walk a Mile in my Shoes?
HC: Yeah,
QD: Well we raised I think about $2800 for it. And we, and since they changed the date, cause
it’s originally February, but they changed it to November. And so that was kind of a struggle but
like we all like organized it really well and so that was really like I was really proud of our group
for that.
HC: That's fantastic. Now what high school do you go to?
QD: Guilford High School. I graduated from Guilford.
HC: You graduated from Guilford. Okay. And, let’s see. How did it feel to come to a foreign
country? In your own words. I know you were only two but how did it feel with your parent’s
perspective maybe?
QD: Well for me, I guess I was still with my family but I really didn't know anyone else and it
was just totally different. Not, it was hot, but, I mean in Vietnam it's very hot and so coming here
it’s just everything’s cleaner. So I definitely felt different even though I was only two. But from
my parents and grandmother's perspective …
HC: Were they, did they struggle with it?
QD: They were happy. Yeah, there were a lot of struggles I guess, finding, just having a stable
life. Because they knew that, we came here with the clothes on our backs and nothing else. So
they left quite a lot in Vietnam since he was, my dad was on like one of the main dentists in the
area. So, we did leave quite a lot but coming here there, there were struggles. The language
barrier, but, they’ve, they managed to persevere through, so.
HC: Well it seems like they've done very well. Through you, it seems like they did. Let’s see.
How do people treat you or maybe even your family? Were there any conversations about how
people, how they were treated when they first came here?
QD: I think everyone was, extra like trying to be helpful because it wasn't just our Vietnamese
connections here. There were, there was a family that would come through the immigration
offices I guess, I'm not sure where, but they were American and they would try to help us. We’re
still in contact with one of the families and he's been very, very nice to us. Like when we first got
here I remember going to parks and what not and like for my birthday he got me a cake, so. It
was very nice. Everyone was very helpful trying to make the transition better.
�HC: That's fantastic. Let’s see… la la la… Were there any people that you didn't get along with
or in your neighborhood or your workplace that your family, didn’t, that didn't get along with
them?
QD: Well, in the neighborhood we were living in, it wasn’t the nicest of neighborhoods and so
there were like gang kids, or you know, around, so I didn’t play outside a lot, because, one, we
were in like a totally different environment, and two it was just not a very nice neighborhood.
HC: Sure.
QD: So…
HC: Okay. Were there any places that you didn't feel or that you felt unwelcome ever?
QD: Unwelcomed? I don't think so because, I was a child and so it was probably different. But
for my parents probably when they first started working, it was different. But I guess after a
while you kind of get used to it, so…
HC: Okay. Again, you were only two, but what did you think about this country either before
you came, which probably wasn’t [for you] or maybe when you were younger what did you
think about this country and what did you think about this country, actually?
QD: I think there are a lot more luxuries in the United States than in Vietnam since, even though
my, my parents were I guess relatively well-off when we were in Vietnam, just the little things
like for my birthday I would get like new slippers because those, I needed new slippers so. But
here I got a cake and a new dress so it was very different. I definitely don't take things for
granted.
HC: Got it. Have your ideas changed when you look back at your idea of when you were
younger you got a cake and you got a dress. Now that you’re older, you've been through school,
you’re moving on to new things in your life, has that idea changed little bit?
QD: I definitely appreciate the freedoms given here because, I have cousins or, basically the rest
of my family is still in Vietnam and, it is better but it is still very limiting and if I had stayed in
Vietnam I wouldn't have had as good of an education as I got here. And especially because the
system here and, just the public school and how we can receive financial aid and everything, and
so…
HC: When you had said it was better but limiting did you mean living here or living in Vietnam?
QD: In Vietnam it's more limiting, because of the government and everything so it's not; you
must have a lot of money to get higher education such as going into a university, so…
HC: And when you do, do you talk to your family who live in Vietnam still? Or is it...
QD: Yeah,
�HC: How do you correspond?
QD: . . . I have visited two times and my parents just went back this February so… It does take
quite a lot because it's quite expensive and, yeah, but we, correspond through phone and e-mail
now since in this technological age, so, yeah.
HC: Now, may I ask because we talked about you coming from a small village, does that…
QD: Oh…
HC: …family live in the small village or the city…
QD:…my cousins…
HC: I didn’t know if they moved into the city…
QD: …yeah my cousins are in the city now. My cousin, I have on my mom's side, she has, my
aunt has five children and so they all live in the city working in like offices and hospitals so. It’s,
they’re well-off.
HC: And the city’s name is again?
QD: Saigon. Yeah, I guess, yeah.
HC: And then your father, does he have siblings still in Vietnam?
QD: Yeah. He is one of 10 boys and, there’s, my one uncle lives in Houston. And I have another
uncle that lives in Australia but the rest are in Vietnam.
HC: Wow. Have you visited the Australian-Vietnamese uncle?
QD: No. no.
HC: Is, so he moved to Australia is he Australian then? Did he become a citizen of Australia
may I ask?
QD: Yeah, so he’s, he has a family there.
HC: Okay.
QD: But we haven’t had a chance to go visit yet.
HC: And on your dad’s side are there, you have cousins in his family too then all over?
QD: Um,
�HC: In the same area of Saigon, I guess…
QD: Yeah, in that area.
HC: Okay. And so you've gone to visit them.
QD: Yes.
HC: …and enjoyed that?
QD: Yes.
HC: Um, through conversation with your family then when you’re visiting in Vietnam is there
talk about your different lives and is there discussion on, better or worse as well? You know, you
had just talked about it. . .
QD: Yeah there is. Amongst the kids there’s definitely like comparisons. You know like, I did
this at school. And I would tell them stories of I guess like American life and they would all be
in awe of like all the things that I get to do. But in the same sense they, it is a lot better in
Vietnam so it’s, they're not like deprived, you know.
HC: When you talk about schooling in Vietnam do they go through the same system that we do
in the United States where there’s a grade school, junior high, and high school and then
University?
QD: Yeah. There is.
HC: And then after, but usually families of higher wealth you say usually go off to university?
Are any of your family members in Vietnam ever going to go to University or have some of
them?
QD: They, my cousins have because its, if you go into a university and you're from a even
middle-class family, all my cousins have received top marks and so from that they, they’ve had
their schooling paid for. So but . . .
HC: Through the government?
QD: Yes. So. But only a few have the like absolute top. That’s incentive to work hard.
HC: It must run in the family. It, just because it's a very interesting story, I love to hear you that
you get the perspective even at your own age, as you’re growing through in different countries.
When you're here though, you receive financial aid as well. . .
QD: Yes.
�HC: . . . To go off to school which is fantastic. Do you guys then also discussed simple things
like fashion or, you know in our area the media is very big in an explosion of media right now?
Of people who, I don't know what's going on with them. Which isn’t really have anything to do
with political views or anything like that. Do they know of these same stories or do you even
discuss that kind of stuff? You know like, Lindsay Lohan? I mean that’s what I’m wondering. . .
QD: Oh yeah. Oh no no, not Lindsay Lohan . . .
HC: . . . you know really bizarre things like that? Or do you guys talk about. . .
QD: They know about like Britney Spears and all that stuff and my cousin just got married in
like February so we kinda consulted her and like helped her just like pick out dresses online. I
would say “Oh, I like this one and just have a look,” and so it's definitely not just all political. No
way.
HC: Okay. That's good. And with the Internet how could it not be. And that's the question. I
find it very interesting that you know I've been interviewing quite a few people who were
growing up in the 50s and 60s, 50s more so, 40s as well, and so to hear how you’re
corresponding with your family back home is so different than them. I love because it's such a
different world back then but now you have pretty much blended these worlds. Just how you live
is different.
QD: yeah. And so through the media they know of the pop culture here and I know, like the
modern Vietnamese artists there. And so it's, yeah, it's definitely the mixing together.
HC: Is there in their country, is it as popular to have these stars and be followed around with
cameras? Do they watch TV like E! and stuff like that? I'm just curious...
QD: Not so much. There are, I guess, like TV stars and like bands and whatnot but not, not as
crazy as here because of the government.
HC: Sure. Cause it's so crazy. I'm watching CNN, I'm learning about Lindsay Lohan. I thought
what am I watching Lindsay Lohan on CNN for! I was watching this for real news! Anyway.
Okay back to more some more fun questions. What is the best part of living here, in Rockford
maybe in the United States?
QD: In Rockford, I like Rockford. It’s accessible to like Chicago but it's also a smaller
community and it’s nicer. And there, it’s very clean. I like Rockford. And the public school
system, I guess there are flaws but I've received a good education, you know, so. I do like it and
just the US, America in general. I do appreciate all that I have been given through, just through
the government, through friends and family and through what my parents have learned and
experienced. So, definitely rewarding.
HC: What has been the hardest or most disappointing part?
�QD: May be that not many people, I mean people know the Vietnam War but they just know that
it was something bad that happened. Maybe in the older generations there's more knowledge but
in my generation not very much so, I definitely teach my peers about the war and my culture and
a lot more. It is kind of disappointing that you don't, you see a lot of the kids in this generation
without that knowledge and, which they should have.
HC: what kind of stuff do you find that they don't know about the war that you want them to
know about may I ask?
QD: Well they know that it was like the Americans and then the communists but there's also a
very large struggle from the, I guess like Confederate and the Republic and they don't know.
They think that we were all part of the war. We were all part of the Vietcong and that's not true.
So, my family were very against that. We still have dinner conversations about that so.
HC: Sure. That's an important point to make to most people. It's nice to hear that you're pushing
towards that, so. Do you miss anything from your former home?
QD: Well whenever I go back, I've only been back twice, but the food’s very good! The fruit I
just, that's all I eat when I go there. And just the cooking. I mean my grandma and mom, they,
we eat Vietnamese food every day. Rice and whatnot. We have like a garden but, it is, yeah it’s
different.
HC: What are some kind of the foods you like that they make there, even though your parents
might make it here, that you love to go back to? Like the fruit for instance.
QD: Yeah, the fruit. Because it's a tropical climate you don't get that much fruit like those kinds
of fruits here.
HC: what kind?
QD: I don't know if you know like lychees? They’re, yeah, they’re just like abundant. Here it's a
bit harder to get really fresh ones. And I guess rambutan and just all those tropical fruits. And
like the mangoes there are just amazing and here they’re a bit like blander, so.
HC: yeah, that sounds yummy. What other kinds of dishes actually does your family make that
are from your home? Like food, you said rice, but are there any specific dishes that are like
comfort food to you?
QD: Yeah. We have, like, noodles. It’s called like [Fah Ha]. Its like with like a beef like broth
and like the noodles and just like everything, like all different flavors in there so that’s kind of
like the comfort food. We just, like a lot of pastries and that kind of stuff so, because we were
really influenced by the French, so.
HC: Fabulous. Do you ever find, going back actually to just one quick question. We were talking
about your friends and maybe this culture about the Vietnam War. Do you ever find your friends
�or your peers also confused that Vietnam, that they're different . . . how am I going to try to
phrase this. . . That you're not Chinese, . . .
QD: Yeah.
HC:. . .or that you're not Japanese, you’re . . .
QD: well, ...
HC: Do you know what I'm saying? Or Laos. You know, you're not from Laos you're not... I
know this community of Laotians as well here and stuff like that. Do you find that to be
something like, “No”. You know even geography instead of history...
QD: it does depend. My group of friends are more I guess knowledgeable.
HC: And they grew up with you maybe, you know?
QD: yeah. And, because I have friends that I made in like third grade and were still best friends.
But I guess the different groups of kids in high school, because there are like, I mean I take
honors AP classes, so all of the kids that I'm surrounded by our more knowledgeable, are more
understanding. But there are definitely, like when I walk down the hall it's like, “oh look at that
Chinese girl!” “It's like no, I'm not Chinese.” So, you know...
HC: are you looking behind your back like “Where? Do we have a new student?”
QD: yeah. And so I guess I was, like the people that didn't know me were pretty stereotypical.
She's smart, she get straight A's, she's Asian. So, you know.
HC: Got it. Just curious about that. Let's see... do you think you'll spend the rest of your life
here? Either Rockford or United States?
QD: Yes. Because once, I've been taught the value of like an American citizenship and just the
freedoms, I guess, that come with it. So like, I want to study abroad. And Yale has like so many
opportunities for you to do that. But my mom says “you know you can study abroad and
whatever, but just come back to the US.” “Come back to the US.” So. And yes, I do. But I do
plan to go back to Vietnam may be like a year, for a year after Yale and before med school to
maybe volunteer at like a local clinic or something. Because that way I can, basically give back
from, like my community, from like, what I've learned in this community here so.
HC: That's fabulous. That's lovely to hear. What do you like to do for fun?
QD: I played volleyball in high school and that was pretty intense but I really enjoyed it. I
played the violin. I'm very into, well I call it football, but it's soccer. So, I'm hard-core into that.
I'm very into fashion. I, like for dances I would make like my own handbags and just alter my
own dresses and stuff like that.
�HC: so what do you think of the Beckham craze in the United States?
QD: He's very, just the, it shouldn't be you know, that much, like $250 million you know for a
year. That’s just way too much. I liked him when he played for Real Madrid and Manchester
United. So I don't know. We'll see. We'll see.
HC: That's the only thing I know about soccer!
QD: that's okay.
HC: [Unintelligible]. I wasn’t going to ask you “Hey, what's that guy,” I was thinking about his
name while you were talking. I was like, “what's his name?” He's married to somebody, I don't
know, but anyway. Are you, that is question again, we've asked this but I need to ask it this way.
Are you a naturalized citizen?
QD: Like, how so?
HC: If not, do you plan on becoming a citizen?
QD: Well I am a citizen. Yeah. Through my parents.
HC: And you became a citizen…?
QD: When I was little... fifth-grade... maybe like 11? When I was 11? So maybe like 2000?
HC: And you became a citizen through your...?
QD: Through my parents. After they took the test and became citizens they, I'm not sure what
they did, but I guess there's an option to have your kids be citizens as well.
HC: You know is there a difference between you and your sister than of, because your sister was
born here, though you are a citizen, do you have opportunities different than your sister’s, does?
Just curious because. . .
QD: Oh well she makes fun of me because she says I can't ever be President because I wasn't
born here and she can't even though she doesn't even want to be President so! That's the only
thing I think.
HC: Good stuff. That's funny! What has been the most difficult thing to adjust to? Not
disappointing or hardest, just adjustment.
QD: Just adjustment.
HC: You were so young. I can see where this might not actually be possible to answer. Is it
difficult to adjust when you go back, the two times you've gone back to visit your family?
�QD: It is different. Probably because I am a lot lighter skinned than everyone else there because
I am not full, I have European blood. But also because you’re, you're the one from America. So
it is different. And like, I wasn't, although I was born there, I didn't grow up there, so I’m
basically American to them. So it is different but because I can read and write and speak that, it's
not that different so. Yeah. But you definitely get treated more special I guess, you know.
Since you're like, you know, the...
HC: The American coming to town?
QD: Yeah. So.
HC: Interesting. That has actually been set in most of my interviews when they've gone back to
visit. The, you're treated differently because you’re American. It's good and bad.
QD: yeah.
HC: Let's see. One question and again, if you're comfortable answering it great. If not, if you
don't feel like you want to, you don't have to. I hope I'm asking you okay questions here. How
do you feel about the current debate in this country about immigration and immigrants?
QD: Well, I haven't I guess like, been too involved in that because I've been offsetting biology
and whatnot. But I do think that we are a bit crowded here but it's like, because it took my
family a really long process to do it that if someone else were to want to become a citizen or
want to come here that they should have to go through at least some sort of the process. That
they can't just, you know like, cross the border and then become like a resident here. Maybe.
Since you know like through my own experience, it was a difficult, like, way of getting here so.
HC: Okay. Well is there anything else you want to add on reflection, of anything you'd like to
save in your interview of either a story of your family you wanted to share or just something that
you want to put as a notation in here?
QD: Well we're, we are a very close family because that's just how my parents raised us. And
because my grandma lives at home and so part of the reason why I am still like fluent in
Vietnamese is because I talk to her. And so we are very close and that's, I think that is more like
the Asian culture. Some of my friends they come you know they hardly talk to their parents.
And I talk, like my mom’s like my best friend. So I think, I do keep up a lot of my culture alive
and my heritage. And I'm not like so-called like “whitewashed” or anything. I, I mean I excel in
you know like just my life here but also I am very Vietnamese.
HC: okay. That's lovely. Your grandmother when you mention her, if you don't mind me asking
the very end here, how old is she?
QD: She is 72, he out.
HC: And so when you came over here she also learned English with your parents. Did she work
outside of the house?
�QD: No she's...
HC: So her English is more through you guys then?
QD: Yeah.
HC: Does she speak it a lot?
QD: Not really. Yeah. She is not, she knows like I guess the main stuff. Like hi, how are you,
and just like, she would understand stuff but you couldn't really have a conversation with her in
English.
HC: Sure. But both of your parents probably at this point are English-speaking.
QD: Yeah. They are efficient I guess but they have like little slip ups were they say something
like backwards I guess because how Vietnamese grammar is organized it is backwards. Like you
say the adjective afterwards and so sometimes they would say that and my sister and I would
correct them and make fun of them.
HC: Like Yoda, a little bit? I guess the Star Wars term...
QD: Well it's like, what, oh, like one time we were talking about like stuffed animals or whatever
and my dads like, “Oh where's that? Like animals stuffed?” And I was like “what are you
talking about?” So we, but they learned through us and they're happy to learn from us you know.
HC: That's nice. Well this was fabulous. It was so great to talk with you.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Quynh Do
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Quynh Do
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
July 28, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Quynh Do was born in Vietnam and immigrated to the United States in 1991 at the age of two with her parents. They came to Rockford, Illinois within a year.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Teresita Endencia
Interviewed November 6, 2007
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Holli Connell: If you could state your first and last name please.
Teresita Endencia: Teresita Endencia.
HC: Are you married?
TE: Yes.
HC: And your husband's name?
TE: Jerome.
HC: Do you have children?
TE: Yes.
HC: And how many children do you have?
TE: I have six children.
HC: What is your educational background maybe just pretty much from birth till now?
TE: Oh, I have been a teacher. My educational background is teaching and I got my education
from the Philippines then I came here in 1956 to continue my education at DePaul University.
HC: How long have you been in United States?
TE: Well, when I first came here I came here in 1956 and then I got married in 1958 but I went
back to the Philippines in 1961 and that's where I raised my family there. I had to go back to the
Philippines because I had to take care of my mother and aunt in the Philippines and then after I
took care of them there I came back here in the states in 1990. So since that time up to now
that's where I am.
HC: And when you first came to the United States in 1956 where did you stay then? What city
and state?
TE: I was in Chicago.
HC: And then when you came back in 1990 what city and state did you come to?
TE: I came back to Rockford.
HC: What work did you do here in Rockford?
TE: When I came in 1990?
�HC: Yes.
TE: I was retired already so I didn't do any work except to volunteering to visit nursing homes
and visit the elderly in their homes because I belong to our church the Legion of Mary and that is
our apostolate. We visit all those who are lonely and those who need help and so that has been
my work up until now.
HC: And where did you come from originally where were you born?
TE: In the Philippines.
HC: Was there a town?
TE: Vigan, Flocos Sur.
HC: Deciding to come here: what did you do before you came to the United States the first time?
TE: I was a teacher.
HC: And what did you teach?
TE: I taught math and algebra.
HC: What was your life like in the Philippines?
TE: It was a simple life, happy. I was brought in the tradition of our Catholic family because
they were Catholics ever since they were been born and they brought me up that way so I am
very glad that I have that religion in me.
HC: What made you decide to want to come here?
TE: I was sponsored by an American missionary in the Philippines and he told me oh, you go to
stay with my brother in Chicago. They have three sons and my sister-in-law would love to have
you so I didn't know them at all but I was sponsored by father[ Kolb] [not spelled out in
interview] that's his name and he arranged for my papers, my passport, my visa, my admission to
DePaul University. I did not do anything on my own except to just follow the instructions and
they just met me at the airport, at O’Hare and they didn't know me. They just saw a picture;
father described how I look like with a picture and my customs; our culture was very simple so
he told his sister-in-laws you take her out shopping and get acquainted with the culture.
HC: And how old were you when you came here?
TE: I was 26.
HC: How did you make the decision to come here, through him or were you deciding gosh, I
should go forward?
�TE: Well, I would think at the time you know I thought that was a good decision so I went along.
And my parents, I'm so glad that they allowed me to come because my parents took care of me.
I was their only daughter; they did not want to part with me but because father gave an assurance
that I would be well taken care of here so my parents agreed.
HC: And were you well taken care of when you arrived?
TE: Yes, very well taken care of. They treated me like their daughter so I was very, very blessed
to have a wonderful family.
HC: Had you ever been to this country before 1956?
TE: No.
HC: How long did it take to make the arrangements to come here and what was involved?
Were you a part of anything and what were the arrangements?
TE: Well, there is the form that you have to fill with DePaul University so he had a friend who is
a teacher here and it was this teacher who arrange and for the form to be sent to him so it was all
by mail you know, to send the form and then we filled it out and so that’s all.
HC: How long did that process take when he first said you should go to the states to when you
actually did arrive here?
TE: I would say six months.
HC: Did you come alone or were there any family members or friends that you traveled with?
TE: No, I came alone.
HC: And how did you travel here, what was your journey like when you left what did you take,
did you meet anybody?
TE: It was an adventurous journey for me being alone.
HC: You were alone, okay. Did you fly, take a boat?
TE: Yeah, we flew from the Philippines. It's a 36 hour flight from the Philippines to Chicago.
HC: Were there any stops in between?
TE: We stopped in Alaska, I think; just to do fueling for the plane but that's all, the regular
stopover for the plane.
HC: Did you speak English?
�TE: Yes, the medium of instruction in the Philippines is English.
HC: Did you meet anybody on the plane trip that you talked about anything special?
TE: Maybe just acquaintance but nothing that I remember in particular.
HC: When you finished here where did you land in Chicago; do you know what airport?
TE: O'Hare Airport.
HC: And then did you know anyone here before you came?
TE: No.
HC: You knew nobody. Where did you get settled in; where did you live?
TE: I lived with this family who took care of me as their daughter that's where I lived.
HC: Did you live in a house or apartment?
TE: It was in a house.
HC: Was it in Chicago or the suburbs?
TE: In Chicago, in the suburb of Chicago and they taught me how to take the subway, how to
take the public transportation which was all new to me, all new but the boys you know were glad
to escort him me, the boys of the family. They would tell me oh I will take you to the park; I
will take you to this place. They taught me how to do that and they had to teach me how to take
the subway because DePaul, it was downtown and then from the suburb I had to take about two
bus transfers and then go to the subway and then go downtown so it was really a lesson for me to
learn. But at 26 years old, you know, I was still strong; I was able to take I and a. I enjoyed it.
HC: That's fun. An interesting experience. I'm sure that was a big deal at first. How different
was that transportation from where you came from?
TE: Oh, in the Philippines we walk to school.
HC: What about like a car ride when they picked you up did you ride public transportation or
was there a car involved?
TE: Yeah, the car ride that's what I remember. They ride the car? We didn’t even have a car.
So how did they get there? Oh, by cab.
HC: What did you think of Chicago when you first saw the city or even the airport when you got
off the plane what you think?
�TE: Oh, it’s a really so modern and so how would you say it, I don't know the right adjective for
it but it's really amazing. Like visiting the Sears Tower at the time it was the tallest tower so the
boys took me there for a ride. They took me to all of those good places and it was really a very,
very new experience for me to see this big shopping mall like Marshall Fields and Sears Tower.
Those are what I remember. The boys were very thrilled to see how excited I was.
HC: Did any of the members of your family come after you did?
TE: Yes, only after oh that was in the 80’s already.
HC: So they came much later?
TE: Much later yes.
HC: You weren’t even here yet because you went back?
TE: Yes.
HC: Were there other people from your country that lived in your immediate neighborhood when
you first came here in 1956?
TE: No, there was nobody and I felt at home though with everybody because the one with whom
I stayed I called her my mother and she introduced me to all of her friends and cousins and
relatives so they were all like my family. I call them Aunt Ann; I call them all by their names
and I called her my mom you know. In fact when I got married. I got married here. He was the
one that gave me away. The couple was the one who arranged for my wedding because I got
married here.
HC: Okay, now when you first came to Rockford, this is coming back, going ahead in a time in
1990 had you been to Rockford before?
TE: No.
HC: And why did you come to Rockford?
TE: Because my husband had a job here and so this is where I came.
HC: And where did he work?
TE: He was with the Knights of Columbus Insurance Company.
HC: How did you find a place to stay when you first got here in 1990?
TE: I stayed with my husband because he had an apartment already.
�HC: And did your husband live here and you came here or was he in the Philippines with you
and came in 1990?
TE: My husband was with me in the Philippines. We raised a family but he came here earlier
about two years before to prepare the way for the transition because he had a job here and the job
opportunities here were better so he came here.
HC: So he came here first and then you and your family followed in 1990?
TE: Yeah.
HC: What part of town did you live in?
TE: He was in Machesney Park and then as soon as I came here we decided he was waiting for
me to buy a home so we bought a home right away as soon as I got in.
HC: And currently you own your home and we are in Rockford?
TE: Yes.
HC: And did you raise your children here as well; how old were they when you moved here?
TE: No, my children were already grown up.
HC: So they were all raised already. Did they travel with you back here or did they stay in the
Philippines?
TE: One of them traveled with me. The others came earlier. We came here, my children came
here at different times except the last one my youngest daughter came with me already.
HC: Now is there anyone from your home country that lives in your neighborhood now?
TE: Oh yes, we have many Filipinos here.
HC: In your neighborhood or in just your community?
TE: Just the community.
HC: And do you visit with those people or did you know any of them?
TE: No, we know them here because we have a gathering every Christmas to fulfill the tradition
of [listen to tape, interviewee names the tradition but does not spell it] preparing for Christmas.
It’s a novena of masses to prepare for Christmas.
HC: When you arrived here in 1990 you were already retired?
�TE: Yes.
HC: And so your work now since 1990 you came here has been what?
TE: It's been mission work I would say. It has been voluntary work.
HC: And that's work that you're working with the church?
TE: No, come to think of it as a now I work part-time in some nursing homes; that's why I have
the insight into what is going on in nursing homes.
HC: And the name of your organization now that you are developing nursing care is called?
TE: This is not nursing care that we are of this home this will be a family home. We are not
going in to give them nursing care. The name of this organization is Grace Homes because our
purpose is to help the elderly age with grace and dignity.
HC: And how did you go about working towards that; working towards Grace Homes? What
was it that you thought you needed to do to develop Grace Homes?
TE: Well, somebody gave me the inspiration to start to take care of the elderly because she has a
friend in San Francisco and so she gave me the idea and I went to visit that family in San
Francisco and when I came here to Rockford I made inquiries at the city hall but they said there
is no such thing as a group home for the elderly and so from our church I made inquiries about
how to go about it and they recommended that we form a not-for-profit group and have a board
and have a name, pick up a mission so that we will get incorporated. So therefore, with the help
of my husband and a friend of who is the lawyer,[listen to tape for name; interviewee does not
spell], the three of us got incorporated and after six months it was accepted.
HC: And now you have property and architectural design for your home and it's been about 10
years and we have that paperwork on that.
TE: Yes.
HC: Now when you came here in 1956 or 1990 you’ll have to answer this question for me by the
year did you have a visa to allow you to work and what kind of visa did you have to go to work
or school?
TE: To go to school I had a student visa, to come here because my husband is an American I had
a green card so with a green card you are allowed to stay for, you have to wait for five years
before you apply for citizenship so as soon as I was in here for five years I applied for
citizenship.
HC: So in 1956 you had a student visa?
TE: Yes.
�HC: And then when you got married in 1958 and so at that point because your husband was an
American you had a green card?
TE: Yes.
HC: So then when he went back to the Philippines in 1961 did you then apply while you were in
the Philippines to become a citizen?
TE: No, I applied for my citizenship when I got here.
HC: And are you a citizen now?
TE: Yes.
HC: What was that kind of process for you to become a citizen then when you came here in 1990
what did you have to do?
TE: Oh, you have to study the Constitution, you have to take the exam and that's all.
HC: Did you have any special ceremony that you are part of?
TE: Yeah, we had a special ceremony for all these citizens at a certain time. They gathered all
those applying for citizenship and then we got citizenship.
HC: Where was that ceremony held?
TE: I think it was Rock Valley College.
HC: How long was that process; how long did it take, a year, two months?
TE: I had to follow their schedule. We were going along with when it will come so about a year.
HC: Were your children considered American citizens because your husband was?
TE: Yes.
HC: But were they born here or the Philippines?
TE: Two were born in a there and four were born in the Philippines but whether they are born
here or the Philippines they are still American citizens because they follow the citizenship of
their father.
HC: So really the two born there and the four born here were all American citizens?
TE: Yes.
�HC: When you came here to Rockford back in 1990 and your husband was already here did you
get a drivers license to drive?
TE: Yes, I had to get a drivers license.
HC: Was it hard to find your way around?
TE: A challenge.
HC: How long did it take you to get comfortable in Rockford?
TE: Six months.
HC: Six months sounds good and again I know I've asked this question before but did you speak
English upon arrival?
TE: Yes.
HC: Did your children also?
TE: Yes.
HC: Did you attend church or temple or synagogue when you first got here?
TE: Yeah, my church, regularly.
HC: And your church's name is?
TE: Holy Family.
HC: How did it feel to come here to a foreign country for you? How did it feel even in 1990 or
1956 how did it feel when you got here to a foreign country?
TE: I felt coming here is, I am on a mission to come here.
HC: How were you treated by people upon arrival both times?
TE: Very kind, very kind.
HC: Where there any people that you didn't get along with in your neighborhood or workplace
because you were from another country?
TE: No, I didn't feel that way.
�HC: What did you think about the United States before you came here the very first time and
how did that change or did it change?
TE: I would rather not answer that. I don't know how to answer that. I cannot explain that in
words.
HC: Was it a positive feeling?
TE: Yes.
HC: And has that positive feeling ever changed?
TE: I still have a positive feeling but now I feel sorry for the United States for the way it is. The
morality of the nation is going down. I wish we had good dedicated leaders to uphold our
morality, especially against abortion.
HC: Has your move here to the United States either time turned out like you thought it would be?
Has your mission been fulfilled?
TE: It's beyond my mission.
HC: What has been the best part of coming to the United States?
TE: Best part, I enjoy everything. I like the community. The community is very good.
HC: Has there been a hardest part or disappointing part coming to the United States?
TE: No.
HC: What do you miss most about your former home in the Philippines?
TE: The Catholic traditions.
HC: Have you gone back home to visit since you moved here?
TE: No.
HC: Since 1990 you have not?
TE: No.
HC: When you went back in the 60s, when you went back after the first time what was it like
after being here a few years?
�TE: It was nice to be home, yeah. See I'm a person who is very critical who likes change you
know. I wish there would be a change for the better whenever I go to a place I feel frustrated
when I see things are not being done as how I wish it would be.
HC: So things were the same after so many years?
TE: Yeah.
HC: Do you think you are a will spend the rest of your life here in the United States?
TE: I think so.
HC: What do you want your children to know about the culture of your homeland? I know four
of them were born there but they moved here what you want to keep with them in hopes that they
will keep with the culture of your former homeland.
TE: I want them to keep the culture of our Catholic traditions.
HC: This is an odd question I'm going to ask you but what do you like to do for fun?
TE: I play the piano. I love music.
HC: What kind of music you play?
TE: I play classical music, yeah.
HC: What has been the most difficult thing to adjust to in the United States either time that you
came back just something weird something you were not used to or still not used too. Any foods
that you think are strange that we eat or something like that or music, anything?
TE: I don't want to waste too much waste here. There is too much waste around. That's it that's
my disappointment when I hear and I read about many people who are homeless and they don't
need to be homeless in this rich country. It's so rich but there is so much waste. If only the
people will think about ways and means and how to recycle the things that are wasted and give it
to the poor, give it to the homeless
HC: Were you nervous at all about moving here?
TE: No.
HC: Either time?
TE: A little nervous maybe but not that nervous.
HC: Last question; this is a big one you can answer, you don’t have a, whatever you want to say;
how do you feel about the current debate in this country about immigration?
�TE: What are they debating about I still don't understand what they are debating. I wish they
would allow immigrants; they have been allowing immigrants for all these years they just put
their laws in place then there won't be any illegal immigrants. I think it's all up to whoever is
enforcing the law they could enforce it and at the same time I think they are helpful to the
immigrants you know so but there are some who are not obeying the laws so therefore those who
are not obeying the law I don't think they could be immigrants. That's what I feel. You have
many good immigrants here. In fact United States is built from immigrants from all of the
different countries so if they all follow the law. Immigrants are following the law so we are all
united together.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Teresita Endencia
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Teresita Endencia
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
November 6, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Teresita Endencia was born in the Philippines. She immigrated to the United States in 1956, coming to Rockford, Illinois in 1990.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Gudrun Ericson
Interviewed 11/6/2007
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Gudren Ericson
Holli Connell: Okay if you could again state your first and last name?
Gudrun Ericson: Gudrun Ericson.
HC: And are you married?
GE: Yes.
HC: Do you have children?
GE: Yes.
HC: How many?
GE: I had five and one is deceased.
HC: What is your educational background?
GE: I was born and raised in Germany. I was born and raised in Dresden. My father lived there
for about 2 1/2 years and was transferred to Berlin. He was a minister and as such he had to go
to different churches and this way my sisters and brother were all born in different cities. Most
of them, we were actually seven children, and three of passed away and they were all born in
different cities.
Now my next sister and I we were the ones who were born in Dresden. That's where the
Meissen porcelain factories are and the beautiful dome and anyways I was about 2 1/2 years old
when my father was transferred to Berlin and I don't remember much about Dresden at all. And
we lived in the inner city of Berlin because that was the areas that needed that the folks to be
brought to God. And spread the Word. And so we were not in a good neighborhood. But we
were happy and we were playing with the neighbors and there was a boy down the street and he
was a bully. And I went up to him and I said, and I was going to fight him, and he started and I
said to him, “shame on you; you don't want to hit a girl!” And that was the end of that. I started
it, but anyways.
But then we moved from one street around the corner to [unintelligible] Strasse [unintelligible]
where in the back of the property was a dance hall that was used in the 20s, you know, from the
turn-of-the-century up to the time when my father, when the church, bought it out. And you
could still see on the walls in those days they had the you know in those days they had the
paintings of the girls in those days with the hats and then the short skirts and they had, the
flappers, and I remember seeing those. And then of course shortly after the church took over the
building, they had it repainted, because that wouldn't go in the church. But it had a second story
that was open with the railing where the orchestra would sit. And we used that for the organ it
was up there and had a little, when you went the side of it, it had a little area where they use to sit
and drink and could waltz around and walk around.
�We were lucky because we were the only one on the whole street who had a postage stamp
backyard. And there were some trees in there, a chestnut tree. And so we were lucky, we were
able to have a little green where we lived. And then they tour this part off where the people were
sitting and, I don't remember, made it into a little garden or something for the people to grow
vegetables or something.
Let's see, now my father was a minister from the Evangelical United Brethren Church from the
missionaries from this country went over to Germany and were recruiting new members for to
build a church there in Germany for the United Evangelical Brethren Church. And that's how
my father became acquainted with them. They were handing out pamphlets to the people and so
that's what happened. He and my mother got married and his sister was a little, little strange.
Shouldn't say that. But when they got married, my father forgot the key to their apartment. And
you know the funniest thing is that Paul did the same thing. He had to crawl in the bathroom
window to get in the house and open it from the inside. Anyway my father forgot the key so
those two young people sat on those hard chairs because his sister, Louise, was a nurse; she was
sitting there watching them the whole night with glaring eyes. So they couldn't do anything, they
couldn't even kiss, you know. I mean they were newlyweds, they just got married! Until the
next day when something happened that my father sent someone to get the key or whatever. I
never heard the end of that, but anyways that's what happened.
HC: So she just sat right there and waited and watched them?
GE: Yes. Now she had no business being with them they were adults they were not scared of
monsters or going like that and they were married. Well that's the family. There’s another sister
on my father's side who was also a little strange, but, I mean it goes through generations.
HC: Now did you go to school in Berlin?
GE: Um, yes I went to grade school for four years. I walked there and it wasn't that far to walk,
maybe five or six blocks or so and went there from first grade, there was no kindergarten. They
did not have kindergarten, kindergarten in those days was for the latchkey kids where the parents
worked and they were in a nursery-type setting. And then when the parents came home from
work the mother would go pick them up or the kids would go home because they knew that the
mother was back so anyways I didn't go to kindergarten and kindergarten was not a regular part
of the school. So I went there for first grade, second-grade, third grade, and somewhere between
third and fourth grade I took an exam because in order to go to high school you had to pass
certain standards. And I passed the standards and I started, I think it was at age 10, to go to high
school. And the nice thing, I must say, that is the one nice thing that Hitler did, he helped the
mothers and the fathers to educate the children like the first two did not get any financial help,
the third got half and I went for free. The government paid the school so that was pretty neat.
So anyways I went there and I took the exam and I passed that to go to high school and then I
went to high school for eight years. And I learned English right, and I don't think it started in the
first grade but maybe it did. But way back we had English and I remember that they had those
old-fashioned seats and the tables came down sort of and they had an ink pot in here, you know,
and then you pull the girl in front of you and mess with the ink, well I did that, too. Not just
�boys. And one of my teachers said “now don't do that!” “Look at Gudrun, she's a bad girl.”
And you know that was very detrimental to my self-esteem. For her to say that I was a bad girl.
That's terrible. Well anyways I went into high school and then we started with English, oh yeah
and she said I must've started with the first grade of high school, the grade school kids went up to
eighth, and then they went to a trade school to learn a trade, like hairdressing, plumbing, you
know, that kind of trade. Where the people who went to high school went for eight years and
after the fifth grade, I started with the first, second, third, fourth and then I had to make a
decision about which branch I was going to go into; they had three branches. That was just like
college you know. One was for scientific branch, one was a language branch, and one was the
domesticated type, the domestic branch where you learn sewing and knitting and all this and of
course I picked the scientific branch because I liked science. But you also learned languages
besides. So I started with French and I had French for three years and then Latin the next year I
had that for about two or three years depending on when we started. I had about two or three
years of both of those.
And then Berlin was bombed and we were shipped out of Berlin, out into the country, into areas
that were not bombed or endangered, endangering children. So my sister went into the woody
part of (name) and (name) and spent a year or two there and I was shipped out to the Baltic Sea
with my class. And we spent a year or two there away from the bombing.
HC: Were you out there with parents or teachers?
GE: Yes the teachers went too. The parents did not.
HC: How old were you when that happened?
GE: That was in 1941 or 42 so that's when the bombing started. The British started to bomb
Berlin in 1941. And I think shortly after that we were sent out so that we would not be in danger
of losing our lives. We would be safer.
HC: Where in the Baltic Sea?
GE: Right on the coast. In one of the, they took all of these resort hotels and let the kids, I don't
know what they did with the owners, but they confiscated the resort hotels and filled them with
kids. They were trying to keep the schools together. But somehow I got separated. And I was
in a different hotel with different kids I mean the kids that went to a different school. And I
didn't know what they were talking about. They were either a year behind or two years ahead or
something. I wasn't matched properly. So I have a terrible time especially with math. They
were doing stuff. I’m still not good with math but anyways I think we were there for the summer.
And then we were shipped back.
In the meantime my father and mother celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary. And I wanted
to go home. I wanted to be there and I was crying and crying and carrying and carrying on and
finally whoever had the decision to make let me go, HS: put me on the train and I went back to
Berlin for the 25th anniversary celebration.
�So your parents stayed in Berlin?
GE: Oh yes.
HC: During the war than?
GE: Right. Not during the whole war, my father did, and my oldest sister, they stayed in Berlin
for the entire length until they were bombed out. My mother and my sister and I we went to my
aunt in Saxony. The sister of the aunt that was glaring. So we stayed in her house and she had a
beautiful dining room, living room, whatever with Oriental carpeting and beautiful furniture and
you know what, she kept it locked. Nobody could use it, it was just to look at and drool, you
know and “Oh my gosh how beautiful!” Well one time she let me use it because I was trying
algebra and for some reason I couldn't get it and I couldn't get it and I couldn't sit in the kitchen
where we almost lived in Germany. Everything is played in the kitchen the whole home life.
Anyway I couldn't because they were yackity, yackity and laughing and giggling and all this and
so she finally opened up the door and “Now you don't touch anything.” I said, “No I won't, I
won't.” I sat down and I looked at this and I worked on it and I worked on it and all of a sudden
a light bulb went on in here that's what it is! Okay. So, I finally got it.
She had one daughter Krista and arranged the wedding to Fritz. Fritz was a redhead and he
drove a motorcycle. And he invited me “You want to ride a motorcycle?”, and I said sure. I sat
behind him and I was never as scared in my life. I hung onto them and he went GGG up and
down the road. There was a little village, a string of villages in they are not mountains in that
area but they are rolling hills, something like out in Pennsylvania, only not quite as high. But
there were valleys, and there were rolling hills and they were covered in woods. They were
beautiful woods and we used to go mushroom hunting in the wood and we would smell and,
even now when I go by fresh mushrooms I have to eat one or two raw in order to get that smell
back. It tastes just like it smelled. Oh it was beautiful.
So we stayed there I think it was from 43, I think we got there in the summer of 43 or the
summer of 44, no, we stayed there from the fall of 43 until the spring of 45. And I went to
school there in a little town not as big as Rockford but the cute thing was, you know, being in a
valley she lived in one of the on one of the little hills and she could overlook the little villages.
There was a choo choo train I mean it was actually a little choo choo train went down the valley
and picked up the kids for school in Sweikow and it was a little red wagon with a type of
caboose and went to choo, choo, choo. It was the cutest thing and we took and we took that one
into the city.
HC: And did it run on the tracks?
GE: It ran on tracks and it was really cute and we took that and went to school there in Sweikow.
And then of course they stopped that because the war was coming too close and the Americans
had the dive bombers and they would shoot anything moving on the ground and they stopped
that and so we had to walk home. They were endangering anything that moved on the ground.
�And that one time my girlfriend and I stopped because they were coming overhead and we
looked down on the ground and there were these little frogs, like little tree frogs or something
like that. And they were all hippy happy hopping and I just stuffed them in my pocket. Oh
they're so cute I'm going to take them home. My mother had a fit. But that was actually a nice
thing you know what a happy occasion. I didn't care about the bombing or anything. Like when
the bombers came over from England to bomb Dresden I was lying in bed and you know we
could hear them there was a stream of them, thousands of them. And I was lying in bed and I
was singing away and my sister my next sister was under the bed and she was shivering and she
was crying. I said what’s that matter they are not going to drop any bombs on us. They do not
even see us. She was crying and shivering and I was singing up there you know it didn't mean
anything to me at that age. And afterwards we looked out the window and when we could see
the whole horizon was red from the fires in Dresden. That was a long ways away. Sweikow was
over here and Dresden was way over here. Was at one end of Saxony and Dresden was at the
other. You could still see it that well.
HC: Wow that was close.
GE: Yes that was close so we stayed there until spring of 45. And my father and my older sister
stayed in Berlin. Well, our house was bombed one night and they had precision bombing. They
stopped at that house and the next night they came and finished it from that street on over. It was
really I mean it was really fantastic accuracy. But they were trying my father and my sister who
was handicapped walking tried to help get the people out and there was no sense and they were
almost sucked in do you know they called that being sucked into a firestorm? It has the oxygen
rushes and it pulls you in if you are not watching and my father was pulled back by some of the
people in the building, in the house and then my brother’s ammunition, he was in the army. He
had ammunition in his roll and it was starting to go off. It was just like fireworks! They were
exploding inside when the fire reached that. I wasn’t there I mean my sister was telling me.
And then my sister came to visit us and she has guts really, she was rough. I mean she went with
her head through the wall you know I’m going to do this or else or not. She hitchhiked to Berlin,
laid in the ditch when the bombers came over and didn’t pull her skirt up but “Can I get a ride”?
HC: Is she the one that is handicapped walking?
GE: Yeah and she got to [name of town] where we lived with my aunt and if those bombers
didn’t come over the house one time from the back and dropped a bomb right down at the farmer
down the road just maybe 300 yards or so down the way and killed someone but that was the end
of us being bothered by bombers except one day we watched a fighting fight in the sky where
German fighter planes and American fighter planes putting on a show. I’m sure that it wasn’t a
show for them but they were this way diving down shooting and it was most interesting for me
and then one American fighter plane was shot down not too far. Boy we were getting our shoes
on and running down there. It was a tall black guy. I don’t know the rank or anything, whoever
and I went up and I asked him in English “What is your name?” He just straight forward. He
didn’t even look at us. He didn’t say a word. And then he was captured and taken away but in
another village the same valley one guy wasn’t so lucky. They captured him and they beat him
�because they were so angry at him. They beat him but he wasn’t killed. It’s war but shortly
before that a German, not a tank battalion but one with guns, guns mounted on…
HC: Tanks?
GE: Maybe they were tanks they were going through the valley and past our little village and
went two or three villages, one village was right next to the other. Bombers came [yack] bomber
we called them, fighter planes and shot them up.
HC: American shot up German tanks?
GE: Yeah, no the American bombers, fighter planes, bomber planes shot the whole battalion up
and it exploded and what not. In that village the people were so angry that’s when one of them
landed, poor soul, they grabbed him and I mean it wasn’t his fault you know. You can’t blame
them for trying to give steam out for something they had to hold in and tried to forget and they
can’t. They couldn’t forget it so that’s what happened to them but that fight in the air was most
interesting. Like to me it was interesting, not my mother and my sister…
HC: Frightening. Big age difference between you and your sister?
GE: No, two and a half years but she was a different temperament than I. She was very timid
and quiet and …
HC: And you seemed more curious and adventurous.
GE: Yeah and now she completely turned when she fell in love. She completely turned. She
met her husband in England as a nurse. She was working as a nurse At Oxford University and he
was a Rhoades Scholar from Chicago of all places and they met there and they fell in love and
they got married and they came across it’s a channel and went to Berlin and then my father
married them again in church because they got married at the courthouse. He married them in
church and I was there at that time. I happened to be there to visit from over here.
HC: How did you meet your husband?
GE: Well if you want me to tell you that’s a long story.
HC: That’s okay. If you’ve got time I do.
GE: It’s a long story. My father being a minister of the Evangelical United Brethren Church in
the United States and sent missionaries to Germany received money just like the Marshall Plan
was given money to rebuild Germany. The church gave money to rebuild the churches and for
some reason being very, had a great ability to handle finances and to be an organizer. Somehow
he got elected I’m not sure how he was elected to handle the money for West Germany to build
up the churches and so they had conferences every four years in Dayton, Ohio where the seat is
of the Evangelical Unite Brethren Church which is now United Methodist. They combined with
the Methodist and so when he was at the first conference in Dayton, Ohio that was I think in
�1948 because he came back in ‘46 no it wasn’t ’46. It must have been ’48. He saw a list of some
of the colleges; we had two colleges in the state. One was in Dayton, Ohio, the Albright College
and the one in Naperville is North Central College and he saw that both of those colleges were
asking for one exchange student from the German country, from the defeated Germans so he
wrote my name down as a possibility. He noticed that both of those colleges were offering a
place for a student to go to college over there so he wrote my name down and one of another girl
from our congregation for the other college, the Albright College. They both agreed we had to
write letters, I had to write letters, she had to write letters, put our grades on, send our final
grades which came after the eight years of high school you went through a week of written
examinations and then a week of oral examinations and if you passed you got a certificate. It’s
like a college graduation, abtiur they called it ABITUR, a special honor if you make it and if you
don’t you can repeat it again except one girl in my class we all made it and I had to write the
letter to the college and send my grades in. And the problem is in the scientific branch there was
no typing. We didn’t learn how to type. I don’t know if they had it in the domesticated
whatever so I didn’t know how to type. I wrote this letter long hand. I didn’t know anything
about margins so I started here and then I went over there and then I went over there, long hand
and of course the grades were differently written down in Germany than they were over here.
Like the “A” was a “1” in Germany, “B” was a “2” and so forth and sometimes the “1” is just
like and “F’ over here, you know you have a little flag that brings me to another one then I wrote
it in long hand what it meant fortunately.
HC: So they’re thinking you’ve got “F’s” and it’s one and it’s highest grade?
GE: Yeah, and so on and so forth I had half A’s or seven A’s and four B’s or something so they
accepted me and coming back to the ‘1” I had an experience in my first physic’s test, qualitative
physics, qualitative chemistry sorry. The teacher was sort of picked on his nose all of the time,
had a problem with his whatever with his teeth but he was talking like this all of the time. Well I
couldn’t understand him for one thing so the first test I wrote everything “1” well he understood
it was a “7” see and so I had an “F” on the test or a “D” or something. I thought what so I
marched up to his office and I said this is not an “F” this is a “1. Huh, what? Well that’s when I
explained we make a “1” like this and a “7” is like this with a cross through it. Oh, okay I’ll
have to re calibrate it, regard your test and he did and I passed it with a “C” or “B” or something.
But nobody explained to him I was the first one from Germany so he had no experience. There
was nobody at North Central College that would explain what to expect.
Third Person (husband)?: unintelligible comment.
GE: I don’t know he might have…Paul be quiet, what to expect from these foreigners.
HC; Now how old were you when you were admitted to North Central College?
GE: I had graduated from high school at eighteen and it was spring of ’49.
HC: So when you, I just want to get this right because this is part of here, arriving here. So you
came through the church?
�GE: Yes.
HC: And your father, it was through the United Methodist now and that was based in Dayton,
Ohio or in Naperville?
GE: Yes.
HC: And so you came over here through that to go to college here?
GE: Yeah.
HC: I just wanted to make sure that I am right on that. When you came over like what was it like
traveling over here to get to that school?
GE: It was a nightmare.
HC: What happened, where did it start like after your dad said you can go to this college, you got
to fill out paper work and you did it, you were accepted, what happened then?
GE: I had umpteen different meetings so go to because I had to have a visa, immigration, not
immigration, a student visa. I had to be examined by the military, the government in order to get
a visa. I had meetings to go to be examined if I had any political whatever in the background and
I was trying to be non-committal and so when they went out of the room I was sitting at the table
and you know at a round table or something and I was sitting like this you know, a real nice girl
smiling. They left the papers in front of the head man where Paul was sitting and went out for
whatever a cup of coffee or something and I sneaked over and looked and I could see the
impression, one sentence anyways, is non-committal and her character seems to be what is that
word the lizard that changes color – chameleon. I thought gee that’s what they think of me, as a
chameleon. If that’s serves the purpose I’m okay. I went along with it. I wanted to come to the
States. I wanted to have experience with English in the country to become a missionary nurse to
go to Africa and so one man from the church apparently a wealthy business man donated some
money for my trip here and …
Third person interrupts with unintelligible comment.
GE: Paul, never mind. That’s the way you met me over here. You just be quiet and listen.
Okay? If you have a question you raise your hand. So he donated the money I think to the
church for this kind of thing to happen for students to come to college over here and I tried to
pay the money back in donations to North Central College because I felt I owed them a great
debt and anyways that’s how I came over. It was through the donations of the business man.
HC: He paid for your way and for the flight and for the paperwork?
GE: Right and then the church decided to give me a total scholarship because well that’s what
they wanted me to do was to come over as an exchange student. Where would I get the money
�for them? I seemed to be worthy of the scholarship and they even gave me an allowance. That
was really nice.
HC: Was it for the whole time that you were in college?
GE: I got it for one year and then I wanted to go another year if possible but I didn’t have any
money and I couldn’t expect Paul’s parents to pay. I met him in zoology down the road and so I
went to the administration of the college. I wrote a letter to the head office in Dayton and I
asked if I could please have an extension of the first year and they did. They gave me a total
scholarship for the second year. So that was neat. I met Paul in the second year, no in the
summer of the first year and we wanted to get married but we didn’t know what to do or where
to go and nobody in Naperville new. This was something different, something new. They didn’t
have any experience. So they said well, go to the immigration people in Chicago so I went to the
immigration people in Chicago.
HC: Because you were on a student visa.
GE: Right.
HC: So you were from Germany, you were going to school, you guys met and fell in love and
said we’re going to get married and it was like how do you do it?
GE: How do you do it? And I asked one of the people in Chicago. We went twice. The first time
we went and he said are you planning to return to Germany after the school year. And I said not
really; I want to get married. I don’t want to have my husband here and me there. Well he said
you signed a paper in Germany that you would return after the one year and we will hold you to
it. So I said I didn’t know that and he said ignorance is no excuse before the law. So okay I had
a deportation notice to leave at the end of the month so Paul and I tried to find out what to do.
Nobody knew at the college, nobody. So we went to Chicago to the immigration office and we
talked to the head of the immigration office, Mr. Taylor, very nice, very personable man. He
said I know what you are going through. I have a daughter in college too. I know what it is to
fall in love and this and that and he said I’ll tell you one thing, don’t worry about how to cross a
bridge until you get to it and that’s what you did. You should have gotten married and nobody
would have done anything. I didn’t know that and nobody knew so he said I will extend your
first semester to the end of it and in the meantime you told me that you are getting married by
your father, wonderful he said, no worry after that. You see one nice, friendly, understanding
person can change my whole life. I mean things fell into place. It was just amazing so my
education in Germany didn’t cost me anything. My education in this country didn’t cost me
anything. I went into training at Rockford Memorial to become a registered technologist; that
didn’t cost me anything in fact they gave me an allowance. I mean I am a lucky person here I
am.
HC: Here you are. Wow, that’s amazing.
GE: So that is really fortunate, very fortunate person.
�HC: Now can I ask you a question not to go back on something but I want to actually understand
after you filled the paperwork out, you saw your paperwork, you’re a chameleon and okay they
are going to let you go to the United States, how did you travel to get here?
GE: My father made arrangements with one of the church members in Frankfort to have me stay
overnight and then bring me to the airport in Frankfort and put me on Pan American Airlines so
that’s what I did. I said goodbye in [unintelligible] airport. My teacher was there from high
school, Miss [unintelligible] was there and I went from [unintelligible] to Frankfort whoever it
was I can’t remember. They picked me up. They brought me home because my flight was the
next day, Pan American go to New York, fly to New York and I stayed overnight. They got me
up in the morning. That was the 24th of September 1949. School already started for two three
weeks, the early part of September and then I flew with Pan American. I got sick, oh flying …it
just…It was a propeller plane and it was thirty some hours or twenty nine hours or whatever.
We first went to Heathrow Airport, no to Shannon, Ireland and we had a nice meal there
Shannon Ireland and then we flew to [name of city unintelligible] in Iceland because it was a
long flight from [name of city unintelligible] Iceland to Gander, Newfoundland and I saw the
aurora borealis and I saw it. It’s waves like this and then we flew into Gander and I was still
getting sick and a neighbor next to me said now you better eat and oh no, you try to eat if it takes
you all day and they served Canadian bacon and fried eggs and I thought oh the smell of it made
me sick. He said no you eat one bite at a time and sure enough after I finished that breakfast we
were landing in Gander, Newfoundland by the time I finished that breakfast. It took me all the
long. It felt good. I felt better so we landed in Gander and they found out because of the storm
over the ocean, you know it was in September they had to [unintelligible] the plane, go up higher
or go this way and that way. They were almost out of gas so another miracle of God, she’s going
to college I’ll make this last and I don’t believe what the guy said, the neighbor next to me said
he flew all of the time and he said they had only thirty gallons left but it couldn’t have been. It
must have been three hundred gallons. That’s what sticks in my mind. It had a small amount of
fuel left so phew. I thought well here we go and we landed in New York Airport, I don’t
remember which one it was. And the lady from our church in Dayton met me there and took me
to a hotel overlooking, oh when I saw the lights. We were approaching in the evening look at the
lights it was just unbelievable. You know there was a blackout in Germany. You couldn’t see
any lights and there the whole sky was burning with lights and that was the most exciting
moment to see all of those skyscrapers with their lights blazing. I mean it was just like fireworks
like they turned it on for me. It was so beautiful and back there was darkness and I said oh
what’s that and they said that’s the ocean and I said oh that makes sense.
HC: So you stayed at a hotel in New York with someone from the church?
GE: Yeah.
HC: And then what happened?
GE: She took me shopping the next morning. My mother had tailor made me a fitted suit, a
travel suit. That’s what you wear in Germany and a new hat, new purse, and shoes. I mean I was
decked out to kill the world but I mean I needed some modern clothes so we went shopping and
�she bought me a dress that was plaid which I loved. It was a pleated skirt and the whole works
and then she put me on the train to go to I think, I don’t think I changed trains in Chicago, no I
went all the way to it was the Burlington Railroad to it must have been the Naperville station and
it lasted it must have been seventeen or nineteen hours and I was in a cabin with a bed in it all by
myself and when dinner time they gave me a menus and well I never read a menu in English. I
didn’t know what this meant, what hamburger was or steak what is that? But I recognized the
fruit names like apples and melon and oranges and so I ordered a dinner just with fruit. At least I
knew what I was getting.
HC: When you got to the school a school had already started and you started and kind of jumped
right in how were you received by your fellow classmates? There must have been touchiness at
the time because the war was still on like this was ’48 or ’49. How were you perceived by
American students or people who were born here was there a connection with you being German
or was it like for them I’m not sure.
GE: They were wonderful. They loved me.
Third Party: They gave her a nickname.
GE: Yeah well the first night of course I had a late lunch in the dining room. The administration
was sitting there watching me and I had my ate with a fork and a knife and I had my hand on the
table because that’s what you do in Germany and I was told how to behave at the dinner table.
Anyway they brought me to the dorms. I had a room in the dorm and in the evening the girls on
my floor they all congregated in my room. They sat on the floor and I was with them and of
course I could speak English. I had eight years of English but they spoke so fast my ears weren’t
assimilating to the sound of American English and also to the speed so I said slow down I cannot
understand you. I spoke real spoke because I had to think. I had English but not conversational
so they said we cannot pronounce Gudren or however they pronounced it then. What should we
name her and they went from Gudren to blah, blah to Gudy which is almost Judy. How about we
name her Judy? I said that sounds good.
HC: So that was your name Judy? Do you go by Judy now?
GE: Many times, no I use my real name on official papers like test results or something or
government issue but in college and my work I went by Judy. Not that I particularly like the
name but it was close and my mother wanted to call me [Yuta] which is almost like Judy so she
got her wish in a way.
HC: I actually should ask some of these questions you have gone along and done so many of
these, very interesting story. Okay, how did you, let’s get back into this how did you get to
Rockford? Like how did you end up in Rockford?
GE: Good question. Some of the classes I took like from Dr. [Eigenbruch] whose ancestors came
from the area my father was born and he was a foundling or something and he could speak
German and I had a class with him he was teaching zoology. I happened to sit next to Paul with
one seat in between and I thought oh is he cute so I tried to talk to him and he wouldn’t say
�anything and I thought what a snob and then after several weeks in the German Club or the
Chemistry Club I attended I found out that he was hard of hearing that he didn’t hear me ah ha so
that made a big difference but anyways my first birthday that year in ’49 which was a couple of
months after I came over the maid of honor I had at the wedding she had an aunt and uncle in
Naperville and he was a teacher or professor in college and she invited me to make a pie, would
you like to learn how to bake a pie? Pies are very popular in America and I said sure what kind
would you like me to make and of course I had to pick pecan pie which is expensive to make so
we made pecan pie at my birthday and then the doorbell rang and there was this character
grinning from one ear to the other, my blind date Martha Bead knew that I liked Paul and she
invited him to come to my birthday party and so actually that’s how we met.
HC: And so how did you wind up in Rockford though?
GE: Paul’s parents lived in Rockford. His father was a physician and he had his practice here in
Rockford so that’s why we got married here and then I started my training at Rockford Memorial
and that was in Rockford so after that I stayed here. Paul was actually born in Chicago while
Grandpa was at Northwestern in med school and so I invited everybody from my college days to
come to my wedding and some people did and one I don’t know how did you became acquainted
with Maurice [Vanlandinghan]?
HC: I know, his daughter Carol [Tuck]. His daughter is Carol [Tuck] isn’t that right? Mr. Van
[Landinghan] I think has two daughters or two kids. One of them is a girl. Is he a doctor in
town?
GE: He’s not a medical doctor. He went to the seminary in Naperville. He became a minister.
HC: No there’s a doctor in town, Dr. [Van Landinghan].
GE: Oh no, that’s not the one. I know [Van Landinghan] he’s a neurologist. No this young man
went to Rockford every weekend or so he had the cutest little car, a rumble seat so we sat there
in the rumble seat and he would drive us to Naperville and then back again and since Paul’s
parents lived here we wanted to have the wedding here. Some people did come from college and
attended the wedding. Now of course my father was over here again during that conference time
in 1950.
Third party, probably interviewee’s husband Paul: That’s how we happened to pick the date
because they could set it up during vacation from school and he was here in the country at the
time.
GE: He had to travel with a group of ministers to the different churches in the different
countries, states in the union but he was coming back in the winter time and his train got stuck
because the snow was so deep. He made it in time and he and Maurine [Van Landinghan] gave
the ceremony or held the ceremony. My father in German and Maurice in English.
HC: What about your mother was she able to come over.
�GE: No not then. She came over with my father’s second trip four years later when he baptized
Barb the one that was killed and she stayed in my house for about seven, eight months and shewe were poor as a fish mouse or whatever, church mouse that’s it and I was working days at the
hospital and then weekends at the restaurant to make money because Paul was a pharmacy
student or apprentice or something and we made like $25 a week or something; anyways we
couldn’t afford to go out to California and my sister came over in the meantime and settled down
in California so she hasn’t see my mother since 1951 and my mom has since passed.
HC: Did any other family members come over after you?
GE: I was the first one and then after that came my sister, the handicap sister and she met her
husband on the boat coming from England and so they got married and then my other sister, my
next sister was the Nurse at Oxford University Clinic and met her husband there. He was a
scholar, student and then they came back to the States. He was from Evanston, Illinois so we all
three girls wound up here and nobody with my parents. My brother went to med school and was
a physician in Munich, in Augsburg in southern Germany and they had four children and they
couldn’t afford to travel all of the time.
HC: Did your father come over to the States then every year.
GE: No he was here twice; one time for a conference in 1950 and the next conference in 1954
and after that he retired.
HC: And your mother only came here once?
GE: Yeah the one time.
HC: So you spoke English upon arrival but could you read English?
GE: Oh yes.
HC: You could read some English and you could speak some English.
GE: I could read quite well.
HC: You just needed to catch up with the American dialect?
GE: Right and the speed if somebody talked half way slow I could understand what they said
but I couldn’t answer that fast.
HC: In Germany did you speak English in your home?
GE: No that was just a language that you learned in school like French or Latin you didn’t speak
French at home either.
�HC: While you were in Germany before you came here you attended church and now when you
came here did you also attend church?
GE: Oh yes.
HC: Were you in any other community groups or at college or when you came here to Rockford
actually? Like when you came to Rockford did you join a church and any other community
groups?
GE: Yes we joined St. John’s United Brethren Church it used to be on West State Street. It’s now
a different church. We got married there then we went from there because we lived on the east
side we went to a church that was closer. We went to Bethesda. Paul grew up in Bethesda
Church. He was one of the first kindergartners there. We bought a house close by and we went
there and my oldest daughter was married there and then after a few years the other kids came
along and there wasn’t much to do there for the young people’s groups so they heard about I
can’t remember now.
HC: Not First Assembly?
GE: No.
HC: First Lutheran?
GE: No, well anyways it was the church First, no. They’re on Wood Road and we went to that
church and they had a beautiful arrangement for teenagers and so Heda made a lot of friends so
after that she got married in that church. So after that we went to First Free Evangelical. First
Covenant was the one on Wood Road and I painted that and I have a picture hanging somewhere
in the house. I painted that. I dabbled with water colors. You see we couldn’t do that in high
school because there was no water color to have. Everything was burned out and broken down
all I had was what was from a dime store like these little water colors and I painted the paper and
I got an “A” in art. At least I had the initiative to do something to get what I wanted. I wanted
and “A” and I said what do I have to do and here they are and they were black and dark red. I
must have had a lot of anger in me because I didn’t paint any flowers or pretty sunsets, dark
clouds.
HC: Did you join any other groups when you came to Rockford?
GE: Well, I jointed bowling and I went to a ladies circle at Bethesda Church and at First
Covenant and then I always wanted to play golf. I played at two golf clubs and I sang in the
church choir for many, many years and then I lost my voice. I was yelling at the kids too much,
the octave between low and high. So I can go down to the base easily but not too much high so I
sing base and the one above, tenor. I try to and then oh I joined the Rockford Symphony Choral
and I sang in that for several years and that was beautiful; that was interesting. We presented
Elijah and you know those oh it was gorgeous and one other one, one other works well where a
drink was…. It was a German piece that had and I could sing the German but they didn’t want
me to. I had to sing it in English and there’s one song where the students in Germany were
�[unintelligible] and beer steins and drink so that was kind of neat then they changed hands, the
director of the Rockford Symphony Choral changed hands. There was somebody else taking
over and he didn’t want me to sign because he said you as a woman tenor will destroy the quality
or sound of the men’s tones so I couldn’t.
HC: So you retired from that.
GE; Well I retired from that and I have a very loud and a very deep voice and I would have loved
to sing in that after this other guy quit but he said no I’m sorry we can’t sue you. Another words
you destroy the sound of ten or fifteen tenors, come on give me a break. Maybe I should take that
as a complement.
HC; Well you have a strong voice.
GE: Well my father always sang hymns in church you could hear him over the whole
congregation. I have the voice like he had-loud.
HC: No microphone.
GE: No microphone. They asked me to sing a solo in church in Naperville in my first year and I
sang a Christmas song the one that my mother sang to me when I was very, very ill as a child. I
was comatose for about six weeks. I had a combination of pox diseases. One was mumps, one
was chicken pox and the third one I don’t know maybe encephalitis complication. Anyways I
was comatose for six weeks and she had to carry me and sing to me that song and so in her honor
I sang that song as a solo in church.
HC: What was the name of that song?
GE: [Unintelligible] No I can’t sing it. From heaven above …it’s a Christmas song. It’s a
German Christmas song. See I can’t reach the high notes.
HC: It’s a Christmas song.
GE: And so that’s what I sang. I sang it in soprano. See I was still singing soprano and then I
went into alto….
Paul (interviewee’s husband): Nice to meet you.
HC: Nice to meet you.
GE: Yeah he has to go to the doctor. He fell off the bike and has a big blood clot in his leg and
has to have it looked at. Anways, I practically sang all different kinds except base and I could
sing base many times. I had a wide range and my youngest daughter, Heda came to me one time,
she went to Moody Bible Institute, before she went to Moody Bible Institute they all played
instruments. I all had them take violin and when Pat and Barb they had spinal deformities from
what somebody told me sleeping probably on foam rubber mattress. They didn’t get the proper
�support so their spine went like this outwards and they were in body braces you know like plate
here, leather and all the way around the hips and we had to screw them so they wouldn’t go up
because they were going like this, one shoulder was going down and the back was getting more
and more crooked so they were playing the bass fiddle because they could play while they were
standing up. Otherwise my daughter played violin. My daughter had Mrs. Armstrong as a
teacher, Helen Armstrong. Do you know the family?
HC: I recognize the name.
GE: Yeah their daughter is a famous violin…well she took lessons from her and Heda was
singing and she said I want to take voice lessons. I said why don’t you just concentrate on that
because you can play it all of your life but singing you can’t sing all of your life. “Mama let me
give it a try,” so I said okay I was finally worn down. I’ll give you voice lessons, I’ll let you take
voice lessons for one year and thank God I did that because she has the most beautiful soprano
it’s like a metso soprano and it’s just…She went to Moody and she sang in the Moody Choral
and oh at home where she lives in North Carolina she is often the soloist and it’s just wonderful
to hear and the older she gets the more beautiful her voice gets because she is in her mid forties
now, my baby and so she is at the height of her talent. Yeah Heidi tried it but she kept breaking
the reeds, she wanted to play the trombone or whatever, no the clarinet. She kept chewing on the
reeds and they finally told her forget it kid and Pat well after the experience and the body brace
she didn’t play the violin anymore but now she sings and plays the guitar. So they all learned to
play at least one instrument and then we have the spinet organ in there that Paul had a coin
collection and she said the coin collection isn’t going to do us any good. I’m going to sell it and
buy us a piano so he bought us a spinet piano. It was used but it was from Jackson Piano but it
was a nice piece and there it stands there. It was blond furniture in those days, everything was
blond. Well we had it stained to be walnut like this this is walnut so we played on it and I had
some lessons on it. I had piano lessons. I played the violin, the flute, the piano and I sang in the
choir and my father made me go to theory type classes of learning the music, how to write it,
how to compose, which part, the different chords and the clef and all. I hated it. I think I only
went once or twice. I hated it I couldn’t stand it but my oldest sister she just plays…My father
he had a little organ where you pull out the stops and then you pump it. He had never had a
music lesson but he could play the black keys, the white keys with his ten fingers. He would
accompany the choir or we sang a lot, before the meal and after the meal and he would play a lot.
We were bombed out and we got an apartment sharing it with two other parties, one bathroom,
one kitchen and it was a stove where you put wood and coal in it.
HC: Just like a big wood stove?
GE: Yeah right and he would sit in the evening by the wood stove and sit and write his sermons
because it was warm so finally those two other parties moved out and we had the whole
apartment to ourselves.
HC: Was it like a one bedroom?
�GE: It was well they used two of the rooms for each and then we had two other rooms and the
kitchen so we expanded. My father then had then his office and then my mother saved from her
household money she saved a long time and she bought us a piano. She said it was
a thousand marks and she saved it from her household money and that was one of the nicest
things that she ever did because we played on it and then my older sister has such a talent that
she just plays. It was wonderful. It was real nice.
HC: Wow I love music I mean I thinks it’s so great. I don’t play an instrument. I can’t sing.
You see where it can add quite a bit to your life.
GE: Oh yes. The same with painting. I love to paint. I did some water color, took some lessons
and did some water color. I exhibited one and I got third prize at the hospital art fair and I made
a picture for each of the girls and when Eric was a little fellow, the daughter of Louise. I painted
him a picture of Hansel and Gretel where the bad witch is out there and the wolf is running and
trying to get them, chasing away. He just gave it back to me last year. He didn’t want to have it
in his college dorm room anymore.
HC: How sweet, you know I only have a few more questions here because I think we totally
talked these questions into really good stories which is nice. I haven’t really had to ask you a
thing. You filled it out perfectly.
GE: I’m sorry; I should have waited for you.
HC: No, it’s fine; you’ve hit all of these points. One thing I am going to ask before I ask the last
little bit is we didn’t touch on it. When you came here did you drive? Did you have a car?
How did you get around the college?
GE: I stayed in the dorm and the college was a campus like Rock Valley. You had to walk to the
different rooms, library, dorms. It wasn’t that far. You didn’t need a car. I took the train from
Chicago to Naperville when I came over. They picked me up and I think we did go to Chicago a
few times but it was with another college roommate or friend who had transportation so we went
with him but not very often.
HC: So when did you first drive? Did you drive in Germany?
GE: No
HC: So when you came to Rockford it was the first time you drove?
GE: Yeah, Paul inherited or bought for ten dollars or something his dad’s car. It was a
convertible, a Pontiac convertible and it was a stick shift and here in Rockford he showed me
how to move the stick shift the “H” and how to stop and I said okay let me try it and it was a
dead end street like a circle and I couldn’t stop. I said I can’t stop and I went “woom’ right into
the curb. Oh thank God I didn’t hit the tree. I was scared to death so move over and let me drive
so little by little I learned to drive and you know I drove for four years before I had insurance, I
mean a driver’s license. I never knew I had to have one. No one ever told me that I had to have a
�driver’s license. I go four years and then finally I heard about that and I said gee you know what
I drove for four years Well you better get down to the motor department and get a driver’s
license. I said yeah, okay, okay.
HC: I’m going to ask you these last few questions but the other one thing I want to hit on is you
came over on a student visa.
GE: Yeah
HC: And then you got married here?
GE: Yes
HC: Your visa was extended.
GE: Right, for the second year.
HS: When did you and if you are become a citizen?
GE: I married a citizen so the time length in between applying and becoming was just two years
or five years. I don’t remember exactly. It wasn’t that you automatically became a citizen. That
was in the twenties or thirties or something when you married. You had to leave the country, go
across the border wither to Mexico, Germany or to Canada in order to apply for an immigrant
visa. So that’s what I did. I took a flight to Detroit and then up to Winnipeg or Ontario where
there was a bridge that crossed the border between the two countries and I went across the bridge
and I was in the immigration building for about a half an hour.
HC: Across which to countries again?
GE: From the United States to Canada. It was either from Detroit or Ottawa or Winnipeg. I
can’t remember now the exactly where everybody goes to change their visa. It’s just across the
river. I applied for it I don’t know if they gave it to me right then and there or if they mailed it to
me and then I flew back to Rockford and I got my visa.
HC: So you never went back to German?
EG: Not as yes, no I was a citizen in ’54 I became a citizen. I was going to deliver Pat at
Christmas time and I was like this and the guy said you know Mrs. Ericson if you find out that
you are having contractions you feel free to come up front and I will swear you in right then and
there. I said thank you.
HC: Where did you have your swearing in?
GE: Here in Rockford.
HC: Do you remember where?
�GE: At the court house. I think it was the Winnebago Court House if I remember right. I had to
have one or two witnesses who knew me for x amount of time and I did and I did not have
contractions. That was in November and she was born just before Christmas but I thought that
was so cute, if you think it’s time you just run up here.
HC: How funny so what did you think about this country before you came here and have your
ideas changed?
GE: I thought America was, you know in Europe the United States is America. Everybody calls
it America not the United States. They call you’re going to America. That means the United
States. I think that it is a wonderful country with all of these different opportunities but I wish
they were more geared to fulfill God’s laws of loving they neighbor as thyself and helping and
having a little bit more honesty and integrity especially in the politician range and I think it was
wonderful the way the country was pulled together when the war broke out, Afghanistan or the
other wars and especially when the United States became involved in the Second World War
how they said goodbye to their loved ones and how they came back and embraced and loved. I
thought it was wonderful. When our soldiers came back from the war many lost them with their
legs around their feet swishing, crawling on the streets because they didn’t have any shoes
because their legs were shot off. My brother had to walk home from Italy over the Alps. They
had no transportation. They were not welcomed back. They were the reason they lost the war.
You know you guys didn’t win it for us and there was nothing that grew because the tanks
plowed across the fertile land and no agriculture could be. In fact we ate dandelion greens. We
went out in the fields. I picked nettles, the fresh sprouts and my mother cooked them like
spinach and so we ended up getting sores from not getting any vitamins and I have one down
here. It evolved into a [German word] which was a boil. It was this big full of pus and they
lanced it and the guy was half in another world. His knife slipped and so it’s a jagged. It was
not a nice clean cut but all the stuff came out. The pus came out. It had to or I would have died
of peritonitis and my mother had one on her arm. It was this big from not having any immune
system and not getting shots to be able to come over here that it got infected. And no kidding it
was this big of a sore on her arm.
HC: So before you came here you did think positively about America?
GE: Yeah.
HC: And that actually hasn’t changed except that now you have been here…
GE: I have seen the dark side of America which every country has but they have so many
opportunities to do good and so many helpful people here that it is a privilege to live here. It
really is. I mean they bend over backwards my neighbors to help. They say can I help you if they
see I was doing something like raking or lifting, can I help you? In Germany nobody would do
that.
HC: Has your move here turned out like you thought it would? Like when you left…
�GE: Oh it’s better than that. I have children; I have a family, a home, a husband. I have a car I
mean what else could you want? I’ve got a wonderful church to go to, nice minister, I have
friends so it has been really a wonderful thing for me, an opportunity that not too many people
share that I was how I was able to come and the people I met and the husband I met in college.
When I stop and think I really have been very fortunate, very blessed.
HC: What has been the best part?
GE: The best part?
HC: You have quite a few.
GE: I do, to have wonderful children, to give birth to them, to live in a wonderful house to
furnish it and decorate it. I have a wonderful husband who allows or makes it possible for me to
go over there, take some cruises, who loves me and wonder friends and a wonderful church. I
don’t know there’s so many great things.
HC: What has been the hardest or most disappointing part of you coming here?
GE: Of my coming here? Well I don’t want you to print that.
HC: We could ask you that later if you don’t want that on the record.
GE: One of my children has been very disappointing. She has a lot of problems, emotional
problems. The most beautiful one of them all and that has been the hardest thing in my life.
Other than that I don’t know.
HC: Missing family?
GE: That’s another thing I wished I could have them live closer. They are so sweet. They call
me, Heda the one there, the youngest one calls me every weekend to find out how I am doing.
Pat calls me at least two or three times a month and Louise in Cleveland calls me every weekend
and that’s just three of them and the other one doesn’t call me which I am grateful for which is
not nice to say but there is so much pain involved with her that I would rather not even talk to
her and it’s so hard that that is the millstone around my neck. I mean I have so many wonderful
things and so fortunate to have them but there is always one little glitch in the computer.
HC: What do you miss most about your former home?
GE: The food, speaking German, driving through the countryside. You know Germany has
everything, mountains, the big mountains and then there are smaller mountains, then the plains
and then the ocean and I was in all of them. The wine country where my nephew lives. He took
me to show me around. It’s the most picturesque. You know when they show the advertisement
for Werther’s candy, that’s what it looks like. I mean it’s the most beautifully country in the
world, those areas. But there are some beautiful areas here but they are so far apart that you
can’t see them all the time.
�HC: What kind of food do you miss?
GE: Sauerbraten and potato dumplings and red cabbage and certain too I make it sometimes but
it’s a lot of work the roll-ups. My husband decided that was his favorite dish. You take flat
steaks you know the little ones like sandwich steaks and you paint them with mustard and you
sprinkle chopped onions and bacon and you roll them up dip them in flour and fry them on all
sides, put a little juice in it and put a little wine in it maybe and make the gravy with ginger snaps
and sour cream, have [German term] and my mother used to take a lid from her pots and chop up
with a knife and the little pieces would fall in boiling salt water and they are like home made
noodles and red cabbage. I wanted that for my graduation from high school dinner and if she
didn’t do it. I do that every so often because you have to marinate a good rump roast and you
have to marinate it for almost a week in liquid of water and vinegar and different spices and you
turn the thing once a day for about four days or so. It’s really good.
HC: Have you gone back to visit since you’ve been here and if so what was it like?
GE: Since we moved to this house?
HC: Since you’ve moved to the United States.
GE: Oh, yes.
HC: Have you gone back to Germany?
GE: Yes, several times not very often in 1957 is the first time I went there and I stood out like a
sore thumb. My clothes were …I had bought a matching sweater outfit with a skirt and turquoise
and it looked beautiful but people they could tell I was an American from three blocks away. I
mean they were so different the clothes that I felt almost conspicuous. The funny thing I do if I
am in a streetcar and I bump somebody I say excuse me. I mean it just comes out normally,
[unintelligible] and pardon me that’s English too. But they were nice; they were friendly to me
and I was just glad I lived here and not in Berlin at the time. There are still quite a few ruins
there and the next time I was there was in ’66 when my mother was so ill and then she passed
away three months later. She was in the hospital with a stroke and a heart attack. I think she
recognized me. I think she did. That was the second time and that was in close to the area where
my father was raised and retired to after Berlin. It was in the middle of a beautiful countryside
too but my mother hated it. She was a city girl. And these were farmers and people that spoke
this low German and she didn’t understand half of it. But she loved pastries and if they had a
pastry shop in that little village. She just made a bee line for it every afternoon and talking with
people that were on the same level of education not that the others weren’t. But she had sort of
an [German word]. They had a charisma that they matched.
HC: She was kind of talking with people at her level that had the same kind of interests.
GE: Yes she had several…
�HC: What did you call it?
GE: [Oustshouse]
HC: And what doe s that mean?
GE: Why did I say [oustshouse]?
HC: I don’t know that’s what you said [oustshouse]. From the pastry she would go and meet
with them at that level and you said…what did you say again.
GE: I don’t remember.
HC: Does that mean anything.
GE: [Oustshouse] means to change something for another thing. I give you this and then you
give me back what I want.
HC: Maybe in a sense the conversation was the exchange.
GE: That must have been and she was there every day. That was the highlight of her afternoon
bless her heart and once we made arrangements over here, my sister in California, my sister in
Boston and I to talked to her three party telephone call and we got together and they had to run
from the post office where the phone was over there, run to the little house, drag her out and we
talked and it was so nice. She was so thrilled because you know you don’t have telephones in
each house. The post office did and the mayor did but nobody else.
HC: When was that?
GE: That was in the, must have been in the late sixties maybe or the middle sixties maybe and
she lived in the house my father was born and raised in where all his sisters and brothers lived
and it was very damp and cold because it was stone and when I visited her in the hospital it was
in July and I had a corduroy suit on and long stockings, knitted stockings it was so cold and
damp. The weather was not very pleasant maybe it was that year they had a summer that was
kind of cold but the people loved me. Oh the farmers there and the same with my sister the one
in Boston She went there with her two little boys when her Rhodes scholarship husband got a
scholarship to go to Russia to write his thesis on Letters of Tolstoy and so she stayed at my
house with the two little boys. They carried those kids on their…this is Pastor [unintelligible]
grandchild and Edith was liked too because she is a bubbly person now she was. She was always
quiet as a child and so they had a hunting fest in the fall where they will dress like foresters. The
[unintelligible], the beard from the wild boar or something on their hats.
HC: Feather, a piece of tail?
GE: No it’s something that they got going here growing.
�HC: A goatee
GE: A piece of the beard that they put on a hat. It’s a show that they might be hunted down la
wild boar that’s how it started and he was made the king. He was made the king of the hunting
people and they had a wonderful time and they learned in German schools, German grade
schools. They learned pretty fast and then when they came back the younger ones wrote the
English words the way they sounded you know.
HC: Like phonetically?
GE: Yeah. He wrote it that way because we had completely different spelling because in
German we pronounced the words the way they are written hunter here would be [hunta} you
know. This would be [papia] not paper. Now telephone is the same. [milche] is milk and [zana]
is cream so [butta] is the same. My father was able to read a little bit of English because he was
raised in that Saxony where they went to conquer in 1066. You know, William the Conqueror
and some of those originally words are the same, was the same in Low German or English and
different things that hadn’t changed so much but he couldn’t speak the Low German. But he
could read it and he could read English a little bit that way.
HC: Do you think you will spend the rest of your life here?
GE: I hope so. I have my family here. That’s why I became a citizen as soon as I could because
of what happened in the Second World War with the Japanese they rounded them up and put
them behind bars in California, separated the families. I never wanted to be separated from my
family because I wasn’t a citizen. I became a citizen as soon as I could.
HC: Understood, that makes sense. I could see doing it as well. If you have children which you
do what do you want them to know about the culture of your homeland?
GE: I would like them to know the history of the country, the beautiful songs that the country
songs that the different areas have, the gorgeous churches that are left with the gilded ceilings,
the traditions, parades where they all come in their native clothes, the [German word] costumes,
keep that up.
HC: Here’s a funny little question. What do you like to do for fun?
GE: Well right now there’s no bowling so I can’t go bowling. I used to golf but I fainted twice
in the heat so I couldn’t do that anymore. I love to have flowers and plants and I love to read. I
read all of the guess what kind of books. I like to read.
HC: Are they good ones.
GE: Well books that mirror the type of life I grew up, the blood and guts and fighting. I use to
dream a lot that I was a soldier or lieutenant in the Army that I was going to shoot people down.
HC: You like to read military or war stories.
�GE: Yeah and also medical dramas. I don’t’ read too many beautiful books I should read. That I
had to do in college. That’s not nice to say because that’s not a Christian way. My minister
would go like this. My daughter would go MOM!
HC: What has been the most difficult thing to a adjust to in America?
GE: Well I don’t know. I am totally adjusted. When we went back to Germany in ’72 for my
brother’s 80’th birthday and he said this is my American sister. They called me the American
because I totally changed even my mouth, my English and German teacher said that my mouth is
different when I talk now. It moves in a different way so I am pretty much totally adjusted to
here and I would miss the freedom, the choices that I have here and nobody telling you you can’t
do this or that’s not right or you don’t say that. They leave it up to you to use your discretion
whatever you do and guide you or give you suggestions towards a decision you make but they
leave it up to you. That kind of freedom I would miss and it’s not that way in Germany.
HC: What were you most nervous about when thinking about moving here and settling down?
Is there anything that you were nervous when thinking about coming over here?
GE: I was so excited that I didn’t have time to worry about it. Well when I moved to Rockford I
was a little nervous about people accepting me because I was from Germany because it was still
very close after the war. You know the war ended in ’45 for us and this was within five years so I
was a little bit apprehensive about how they would treat me or what they would think of me so I
tried to do everything right, tried to hit the highest notes and do the best I could and finally then
we had a chance to make a friendly exchange, get along okay not that I didn’t get along but I had
more of a sisterly exchange with my fellow students at the hospital.
HC: And again you are the first person I interviewed from Germany and especially around that
time and I asked before if you were accepted right away but you were nervous of that coming
into a new community.
GE: Yeah.
HC: Even though you had been accepted at your college you had been in the United States
probably for a couple of years but that still was there.
GE: Well we got married in ’50 and then we moved to Rockford in ’51 and then I started
training in my profession in ’51 but I was still being a new town I didn’t know anybody. I was
kind of afraid and apprehensive that I might not be accepted that I might be looked down on as
being a Nazi or things like that but I never had really any experience that anyone called me that.
They might have been thinking that but I tried not to act in the way that they would have a reason
to call me Nazi. Now when my daughter called me you’re a foreigner she was pretty mad at me
because she had a bike in the back of my car and I drove backwards because I didn’t see her bike
and it ended up like a figure eight. She said oh you are a foreigner. I said well thank you. We
were all foreigners coming to this country sometime. She was a little snot. She’s very
determined a very head strong girl, typical German and Swede. There’s a combination that you
can’t beat!
�HC: Oh funny! There’s one more question and I promise to let you go. I have probably talked
your ear off as much as you’ve talked mine.
GE: Yeah probably.
HC: How do you feel about the current debate in this country about immigration?
GE: I feel that they have to stabilize the immigrant law, stabilize the amount of people they let
in because if they let in the whole world there is not enough food to feed the whole world for
what’s here but they should also come to a better agreement with Mexico. I think there are a lot
of Mexican people that could serve and benefit the United States with their knowledge, with their
work and not make it so hard for them to come to the United States so they would not have to
crawl over fences and under fences at night, relax and stabilize the immigration laws. They have
certain numbers for other countries I think but the problem with Mexico is this is a land of
opportunity of gold growing on trees they must think. They expose themselves to such danger
some times. There was something again on the news last night where so many and they find
their carcasses or skeletons and that’s terrible that should never happen. They have to do
something and I don’t know if a fence stretching all the way from one ocean to the other would
do it but it was just like after the war when East and West Germany were divided by the wall and
nobody could cross either way and the Russians and the German Gestapo, not the Gestapo, the
German Army under the Russian leadership would shoot their own people trying to crawl all
over the fence, over the wall and reach their loved ones on the other size. That is terrible. That
should never have happened. It’s a border between two countries or a border in a city or
whatever separation should never happen.
So many patients came and they wouldn’t be able to speak English. Their husbands barely
talked but a lot of the wives didn’t and yet they are all on public aid, or most of them and they
should be able to learn or to be made to learn the language of the country they live in. I think
that goes together, to have the benefits of living here with having to speak the language. That
goes for Chinese, for Russians, for anybody.
HC: That’s also a very good point that has been brought up.
GE; I mean I had to be able to speak English.
HC: I hope that they will be able to figure something out. Being bilingual is a good thing but if it
has to be a bilingual country I think is very difficult.
GE: Yeah, they are trying to have street signs now in both Spanish and English...
HC: There are many places that you see it. Hospitals do it now. Hospitals use both Spanish and
English in some of their literature.
GE: Well the thing is there are a lot of people fresh to this country that haven’t learned English
yet and haven’t managed the language they need that but after they’ve been here awhile I think
that you should be able to speak English.
�HC: Well thank you this has been great. I just have some paperwork for you to fill out.
GE: Oh no.
HC: It’s not too bad.
Interviewer gives instructions on how to fill out paperwork.
HC: Is your husband a painter? I see your truck out here.
GE; Paul is a painter. He had so much trouble hearing in college that he had so many holes in his
earlier education because of his hearing loss he couldn’t make it in pre-med and so it was the
same there and then he started to work with Sundstrand and after a while one of the Presidents or
top guys ask if he wanted to be a corporate painter and Paul says oh yeah. He was at Sundstrand
a corporate painter for I think fifteen years and he was befriended by one of the … at Sundstrand
Company and had to paint for him and went [German] and founded his own company.
HC: Do you do that a lot use German words?
GE: Well it’s coming easier as I get older. You know we had a patient at the hospital that was
Norwegian and she spoke English but when she got into her senior years she reverted back to her
mother tongue and seems like I’m going that way.
HC: It’s funny I’m seeing what you are doing and I laugh because my mother will do it and she
will say you know what I’m trying to say but she doesn’t speak another language. You speak
German first because you know what you mean. You’re going to revert back to German I think.
GE: Sometimes it’s easier see German language has more words than English I think for
descriptions of items. There’s feelings and emotions. There are so many words in the German
language. Now when I had French in college that was something. I had French in high school
but I had forgotten quite a bit. I had French in college and I would read the French and then in
my mind I had to translate that into German and go back to English and then say what it said.
You know miss so and so.
HC: Funny, three languages just to get one word out.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Gudrun Ericson
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gudrun Ericson
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
September 14, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Gudrun Ericson was born and raised in Germany. She immigrated to the United States in 1949 and came to Rockford, Illinois in 1951.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Ellie Etminan
Interviewed February 2, 2008
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Holley Connell: If you could state your first and last name please.
Ellie Etminan: Ellie Etminan.
HC: And are you married?
EE: Yes.
HC: And do you have children?
EE: Yes, I do have two children.
HC: What is your educational background?
EE: I got my B. S. degree in mathematics from Rockford College and I am currently a student at
NIU. But I don't pursue anything yet; I don't know which field I will end up.
HC: Where do you work?
EE: I am a part time MAC instructor at Rock Valley College and Rassmussen College.
HC: And how long have you been there?
EE: For Rock Valley, about eight years and Rasmussen College since they started which was two
summers ago. At the moment I'm teaching one course in campus and one course on line for
them.
HC: And where are you from originally?
EE: Originally, I am from Iran.
HC: What place and country of origin? Like a city and town.
EE: It is a province of Baluchestan which is southeast of Iran and the name of the city is Zahdan.
It's very close to Afghanistan and Pakistan.
HC: What did you do before you came to the United States?
EE: I was a student and at the time that I was in university the Iranian revolution happened. The
university had been closed for three years, I got married and I had my daughter and I was a
housewife at the time when we moved to the United States.
HC: What was your life like then?
�EE: Mostly ordinary, nothing different from any other mother’s life that I see around the world
right now on TV. But the difference is that we were in war and that would make it difficult for
everybody not just because it was my life as a housewife.
HC: What did your husband do?
EE: My husband was engineer from the United States, getting his degree from the United States.
He was in the country for three years before we got married and the reason we came to the
United States was that he pursued his master’s degree and that we came as students.
HC: What made you want to come here to Rockford?
EE: First when we got to the United States we went back to Alabama, that was where my
husband got his B. S. degree and that was the same university that he applied for masters degree.
After he got his master’s degree government had one year permission work for everyone who is
finishing master’s degree to work so he applied for everywhere in the United States for the job
and Rock Valley College granted us a job. After we moved to Rockford they applied for a
permanent residency for us.
HC: When you came here it was on a student visa?
EE: That's right
HC: And then after the degree you were given permission.
EE: Permission for one year to work and after that Rock Valley applied for permission for us to
stay.
HC: Had you ever been to this country before you came?
EE: Yes, two years before that I traveled with my uncle and my dad. We had been in Europe and
we came for a week and a half to America and I visited Boston, Massachusetts, New York and
Washington, DC. We went to the White House and it was a week and a half. It was very short, a
week before Christmas.
HC: Was it like a vacation?
EE: It was a vacation that we had, the university had been closed and I have a brother living in
Europe so I was off of school and my dad was visiting. My dad is a businessman who was still
in Europe and he was traveling to Europe about twice a year and in that because I was out of
school he took me with and when we came to the United States. In England it was a big hoopla
that the United States don't give a visa to anybody and dad said let's go and try and see why not
and we tried that and we got it. At the time it was interesting. It was standby tickets I don't
know if you remember or not. You could stay at the airport and at the last minute they would tell
you if you get in the airline or not, if the airline had any opening and it was like 1/10th of the
�price of the ticket so we stood one night at Heathrow and the next morning we came in the
airplane to the United States for a visit. If it wasn't that cheap we couldn't afford it.
HC: How long when you were coming over here with your family, your husband and your
daughter and for the actual move to the United States how long did it take to make the
arrangements to come here and what was involved?
EE: It was a long arrangement because at the time the United States closed its embassy in Iran.
We had to go to Switzerland to get a visa. I went to Switzerland with a seven month old baby
and don't know if we would get a visa or not. We stayed in Switzerland for 40 days in a hotel
room and it was the hardest part. Switzerland is a beautiful country but I couldn't enjoy it
because we didn't know what is tomorrow for us and as soon as we got our visa we flew to New
York and my daughter took her first step in New York airport. It was the only open space she
could find.
HC: Did you travel with your husband to New York?
EE: Yes, we all went together to Switzerland and we all came to the United States together.
Interestingly, the same day that we travel from Switzerland to New York we had a flight to
Atlanta and the same night he flew to Birmingham. So it was like 28 hours with a baby in your
arms.
HC: I'm glad I didn't have to go through that but I bet you did it well.
EE: I was 24 at the time. I don't think I can handle it right now. It was part of youth that was
helping me.
HC: Did anyone come along with you besides members of your family, any friends or any other
extended family?
EE: No.
HC: Did you stop or stay anywhere for very long before coming to Rockford?
EE: We stayed in Huntsville, Alabama for almost 2 years and during that stay my husband was
a full-time student and I started to at the University of Alabama part-time but after two years he
graduated with a masters degree in industrial technology and we came to Rockford.
HC: Did you know anyone here before you came?
EE: No, we didn't know anybody and when we came, when we moved to Rockford in one week
we had two trips with a car from Alabama coming to Rockford. The first trip we took it was for
the interview and we didn't know if he was going to make it so we say if nothing else we are
going to go and see Chicago. So we came to Rockford and they offered the job and it was
Tuesday that they offered the job and they told him you have to be in the classroom on Monday
so we rushed back there, I sold everything we could and put the rest of it into car and drove all
�the way back to Rockford, stayed at Alpine Inn because it was the only hotel that we could park
our car and use it as a closet so we used the car for a month until we found Mulford Park
apartment. The first time we came for the interview the college paid for Red Roof Inn which
was new but we didn't want to be there because it was dead and there was nothing going on. I
said let's get closer to downtown perhaps we can see more people.
HC: What year was that?
EE: It was 86. It was September 86.
HC: Did anyone help you settle in once you were here?
EE: Nobody helped me in any way and that's the reason that I am helping people who move to
Rockford. I invented the wheel, not everybody is supposed to do that. I find the library by
myself. When I was in the hotel I had to go and find the Laundromat and there was nobody
telling me and nobody helping me. I asked for Literacy Council but they didn't have any. I
could read and write but they didn't have any classes for me. Fortunately I had a chance to sign
up for Rock Valley College classes. It's an asset for the community and I always treasure that.
HC: Did any of your family members come here after you did?
EE: Yes, my brother came and stayed with us for two years, he attended Guilford High School
and he graduated here. He went to Georgia Tech and now he is the head of ITT Institute in the
South.
HC: Very cool.
EE: Very cool.
HC: Where there others from your home country here before you arrived and did you meet
anybody from your country once you arrived here?
EE: After a year passed, I met some people in the grocery store. It was cool that we were
speaking the same language and we introduced ourselves. I was with my husband and from then
on I know a few people, the people I know, about seven or eight families that are living here.
HC: Are any of those people even from your town?
EE: No, nobody. I don't think any of them are from the same town.
HC: What are your current living arrangements?
EE: After Mulford Park apartment we moved to a townhouse and after the town house we bought
our house that we are in for 17 years now and we are very happy about that.
HC: Is there anyone from your home country living in your immediate neighborhood?
�EE: There was a time that there was but not anymore. They moved out of state. Not in the
neighborhood, in the next subdivision.
HC: Did you have a job or school waiting for you upon arrival to the United States?
EE: No. I came here as a dependent to my husband's student visa.
HC: How did you go about finding a job in Rockford once you moved here?
EE: For 18 years I have been a mother, I didn't do anything. I did some math tutoring and one
day, the week that my daughter moved to Chicago for school UIC, I received a call and someone
said would you like to teach one course at Rock Valley and I said I didn't apply for it. They said
we know you can do it, Monday morning come here and that was it; that's how we started.
HC: Did your visa limit you in anything while you were here in the United States?
EE: Yes, my husband had permission to work when we were in a student visa for 20 hours a
week. I didn't have permission to work. The year that my husband had permission to work
again full time was for him, not for me and after that when Rock Valley applied for permission
for us for permanent residency until it happened a few years after it was him who had permission
to work not me.
HC: And when did that happen when you became a permanent residence?
EE: We had that five or six years after; I'm not exactly sure.
HC: Where do you see yourself working in five years?
EE: That's a very interesting question. I'm going to be part-time and hopefully with Rock Valley
and Rasmussen. I am very comfortable with the position that I have right now.
HC: When you first got here to the United States how did you get around town?
EE: Map and prayers.
HC: Did you have a car?
EE: That was the first thing that we purchased the car.
HC: Was it hard to find your way around Rockford?
EE: When we got to Rockford it was two years that I was driving in the United States and we
had two cars so it was hard because the Laundromat is not some sign wherever you go. Yes it
was hard. But Rockford has huge streets.
�HC: Did it take you long to become comfortable with getting around town?
EE: No.
HC: Did you speak English upon arrival in the United States?
EE: If you have a second language in high school you can answer that. You can't say this is a
book but then you want to talk on the phone and nobody wants to know it's a book, asking
questions that you don't know the answer and if you were living in Alabama with that accent that
helps you. No. I knew how to speak English but I couldn't carry on a conversation and I would
look at all the words in the dictionary of what I want to tell the pediatrician when I visit but I
didn't know what he was going to say so I wouldn't look at those so it was hard but I survived
and I'm happy that I could do it. The dictionary was my best friend. I would carry that with me
all the time.
HC: Did anyone in your family speak English?
EE: Yes, right now?
HC: No, when you arrived.
EE: My dad as I said he was traveling to Europe and I am the oldest one. My brother was in
Europe in England living there but it's not helping you if your brother is speaking Spanish. It
doesn't mean that you speak Spanish too.
HC: How does your knowledge of the English affect you and your family now?
EE: Do I have any?
HC: Or how did it affect you with building your family as you grew here in Rockford?
EE: Like every mother if you know more you would do better but I tried to educate myself. I
think that is really important for children to know Latin before they learn English. It's supposed
to be root not everybody is supposed to memorize every word in the dictionary. You are
supposed to know the root of the words and from there you know a bunch of the words but no,
nobody emphasizes those anymore.
HC: Getting on the English your daughter was so young when you came here did you speak the
native language in the home?
EE: She was at the beginning speaking English and I never enforced my language at home but
she is reading and writing in our language. She has a very good conversation and I wanted my
children to look at our language as an asset not something that pulled them back.
�I think they are American first and then Iranian American and I am proud that my daughter
writes eloquently, her vocabulary is broad and she doesn't have any problems speaking both
languages.
HC: How did you integrate yourself into the community when you moved here, were there any
churches or organizations or not for profits?
EE: Nobody, nobody helped me. I made every relationship that I have and I have a good set of
friends right now. I don't pick my friends because of their ethnicity, because of their wealth or
not having wealth. I have friends from every different denomination from hardliner evangelists
to Buddhists, to Jewish people and a few Muslims and everywhere in between. My friends are
mostly people that I can communicate with. Most of all they are people that we raise children
together and now the children are mostly gone we connect with each other more.
HC: Are there any activities or community organizations that you were working in now that
reflect on you as an immigrant?
EE: I had always been from the beginning, I thought that this community is giving a lot to me
and I have to give back in any way that I can. For 18 years I have been volunteering in the
public school. Before that I would volunteer in the Discovery Center and the Rockford Public
Library. Both of my children since they turned 11 have public volunteer work, St. Anthony. My
daughter worked in Alma Nelson every summer since she was 11 years old and public Library,
my son and my daughter both worked there and I am proud to say that I am working with the
Literacy Council now and I am a member of the Rockford Interfaith.
HC: How did it feel to come to a foreign country?
EE: It was like walking in the dark. I didn't know where I was going. I knew where America is
but when I came for a visit I came as a tourist. I didn't know what a hardship I have in front of
me when I moved here but I was happy that I had my family with me and from the beginning I
knew that I was not going to go back, even when we didn't have a permit to stay. My country
was at war and it wasn't something that I want my family to be exposed to. I want peace and I
couldn't have it there and so when I was coming here I was walking in the dark as I said. I didn't
know where I'm going but I carried lots of hopes as long as there's not war I can make it. That's
what I was telling myself. Then my husband says maybe we can't find a job. I said we can make
it as long as there is hope there is a way to find.
HC: How do people treat you when you arrived?
EE: I love the people of Rockford as much as I heard that they don't accept outsiders in. I never
felt an outsider. I think you are outside as long as you want to be outside. I consider myself
Rockfordian. I don't think that the problem of Rockford is separate from the problem of me or
my problem is different from Rockford's problems so I don't let people ruin the day for me. If
they have a bad day it's bad for them. I just take it that you had a bad day not that you want to
ruin the day for me. So people treat me the way I treat them and I am respectful to everybody.
�HC: What did you think about this country before you came and have your ideas changed?
EE: As I said, when I came here I came as a teenager and I loved to see the freedoms that
teenagers have here but when I came with a family, now I'm a mother and I don't like those
freedoms children and teenagers have. I think that parents should have more respect and that
they should have more authority and that's how I was feeling at the time I came. And now that I
look at it years after I see that it's not one size fits all. What I see in America is a spectrum of
colors so I can't say who is doing what and what do they expect. I expected freedom and I see
freedom is here.
HC: Did your move here turn out like you thought it would?
EE: I was looking for a better life and I think I have a good life.
HC: What has been the best part of living here?
EE: I don't have any answer for that. Everything is going so well. Are you a mother?
HC: I am not.
EE: Okay, so if you see as some mother your children are happy, your children booming, so you
feel that I did a good job and that's the good part of any life.
HC: What has been the hardest or maybe disappointing part of moving here?
EE: I am not disappointed with my move in anyway. It could be anywhere else and it would be
the same thing. It's you that makes connection with your society. Society is not as responsible
to make connection with you.
HC: What do you miss about your former home?
EE: My family and friends but as I visit I see that I don't have that much connection anymore.
Lots of memories that I made here, at the same time they've been making memories with each
other so I'm not part of those memories anymore but the childhood I miss that are the memories
that I could share with my family and my friends.
HC: You've mentioned that you've gone back to visit?
EE: Several times.
HC: Do you think that you will spend the rest of your life here?
EE: I think so.
HC: If you have children, which you do, what do you want them to know about the culture of
your homeland?
�EE: You know culture, as I said is a spectrum of colors. I want them to have my family's values.
Not every American home has the same values so every child is coming from a different home,
they carry their own values and it is the same for my homeland too. So I want them to have a
value for their family life and that's what they would get from home it's not getting it from
culture.
HC: What do you like to do for fun?
EE: That's interesting. I start with my friend, we started a book club two or three years ago and
now we have signed up for dancercise. We’re going to go for that this Wednesday. What else
am I doing for fun? I love to do different things from shows to walking outside and we take
short trips to Wisconsin. I like that very much and to Chicago, Chicago is very interesting.
HC: It sounds like you enjoy the adventure of doing something new.
EE: Yes.
HC: Are you a citizen of the United States?
EE: Yes.
HC: Has there been anything difficult to adjust to in the United States?
EE: Cultural way. I can say it would've been better if I had a mentor and somebody took time to
show me around as I said I discovered world all by myself. It would be much, much easier.
When I see these young girls I take them to the library. I take them to Borders I take them to the
apple orchard. I say it took me three years to do this and now it takes three weeks. So yes I wish
I had a mentor who was helping me out.
HC: Your struggle has made it much better for others. You know it's like you had to go through
it and you're like not only have I gone through it now I'm going to make it better for someone
else.
HC: Were you nervous in thinking about coming here and settling down?
EE: No. I am a very logical person. I let the event happen and then I deal with it. Before it
happens I don't know if it's good or bad so how can I be nervous about it.
HC: How do you feel about the current debate in this country about immigration?
EE: I very much agree that we should not have open door policies. I mean I am looking at every
country like a home. You can be a very good host and invite people to come and have dinner
with you but you should know how many people are coming and how long they are staying. So I
think that America is supposed to change that we don't let anybody get in. They should have a
good process of who we want in and stay in line if not this year next year will be your turn. If
�we give them that number to stay in line in five years it would be your turn they don't put their
life on the line to come and pass our borders to come here. The other thing is why they want to
come here especially when we are talking immigration with Mexicans. Why do they want to
come here because there are no resources left there why don’t they have a big company put there
and they will have a job. I don't think they're coming here to help people clean houses so you
know as much as I want people to have a good life I don't think keep the doors open is helping
anybody. Maybe helping one country you are looking for cheap labor instead of sending it to
China send to Mexico and then you don't have to deal with that immigration policy.
Actually I just read a story about Hershey has built a plant in Mexico and is doing that they're
sending it there, labor is less expensive and they are still producing the same thing. .
Labor is less expensive, land is less expensive. Resources are more available and you don't have
to ship it by boat or airplane, a truck could do that. So you have to see what is the source that
they want to come here. Are they coming for jobs and definitely give them jobs and they won't
come. Nobody wants to leave a comfortable home for two nights hiding under the bushes.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Ellie Etminan
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ellie Etminan
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
February 2, 2008
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Ellie Etminan was born in Iran. She immigrated to the United States around 1984 and moved to Rockford, Illinois in 1986.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Maria Fabiano
Interviewed March 26, 2008
By Jean Seegers
Midway Village Museum
�Maria Fabiano
Jean Seegers: Would you give me your name please.
Maria Fabiano: My name is Maria Fabiano.
JS: And you are married?
MF: I am a widow.
JS: When did your husband die?
MF: My husband died the 26th of January of last year, 07.
JS: Do you have children?
MF: I have six children.
JS: And do they live here?
MF: None of my children live here in town. No.
JS: Where do they live?
MF: Well they are kind of scattered. I have two in California, one in Michigan, one in Texas, one
in Arizona and one in Gurnee, Illinois.
JS: So you don't see them very often; do you see them often?
MF: I see the closest one quite often. She thinks that she is responsible for me because she is
the closest.
JS: Okay, do you have grandchildren?
MF: I have nine grandchildren. We just had a granddaughter born on my husband's death
anniversary, 26th of January.
JS: What is your education?
MF: I have an Italian high school education and I got a GED here in Rockford and then I went to
Rock Valley for a little bit.
JS: So your education was in Italy?
MF: Yes, mostly.
JS: Where are you from in Italy?
MF: I am from Palermo, Sicily.
JS: Have you worked since you've been in this country other than in the home?
MF: A little tiny bit, I worked more on a dare then a need. My husband didn't want me to work
ever but it was like there was a job posted in the newspaper from in those days it was called
Weise's which is Bergners and it's like you know I was telling my 16 year old daughter who was
very timid to go and apply for it and she said well if you like it so much you apply for it and so it
�was like a dare and I said okay. I did. I got the job and I worked in the housewares department
which was downstairs in Northtown.
JS: How long were you there?
MF: I was there maybe a year but it was strictly part-time in the evening. I would go for just a few
hours.
JS: Did you enjoy that?
MF: I enjoyed that.
JS: How long have you been in this country?
MF: I've been in this country almost 50 years, almost 60 years.
JS: How about in Rockford?
MF: Always in Rockford.
JS: You moved to Rockford originally..
MF: Right.
JS: So what year did you come do you remember?
MF: I came in November of 1948.
JS: What brought you here?
MF: I met this beautiful boy who was a soldier with the U.S. Army. He came with his group to
occupy my little bitty town of 5000 people and I met him then.
JS: Where did you meet him? How did you meet him?
MF: It was kind of a little bit of a story prior to him the American army invading Sicily we had a
sick little brother. He was maybe about nine years old. He was sick with typhus. We were you
know during the war things were really, really nasty. We had very poor very, very poor. We
couldn't take care of ourselves. We had very little to eat and we ate anything we could get a hold
of. Things were very tough during that time right during the war. So my brother got sick and so
there was the doctor in town was taking care of it, his illness as malaria which was almost the
complete opposite of typhoid and that's what he had was typhoid and so he was practically dying
so there was we had met an Italian lieutenant in the Army. He suggested we would bring our
brother for the Italian Army doctors to see him to see what they could do for him and they
immediately knew that he had been he had typhoid but he was dying so they told us just leave
him so we stayed at this a little Army Hospital. It was a very small Army Hospital, Italian Army
Hospital so we stayed there just to take care of my brother and this is when we got invaded by
the Americans and they felt they had to take over this Army Hospital which like I said was totally
nothing and one of the them they left three soldiers to stay and watch over this hospital and one
of the three was the guy that became my husband.
JS: And his name?
MF: His name was Nick Fabiano. I met him; he came down with malaria where he was in my little
town and we kind of took care of him.
�JS: Your family?
MF: Well my family and the hospital. He was in the hospital. We took care of him. We became
friends and he started visiting us at our house and that's how I met him but at the time there was
absolutely nothing you know nothing.
JS: Romantic?
MF: Romantic with him. He was 12 years older than I was. I was 13 so that fall he moved on
with his with the Army. They moved him on their way to Italy and I moved with my family to the
city of Palermo so I could go on to high school. This little town was so small it was only
elementary and junior high. It was no high school so we moved to the city and I went to high
school in Palermo and my husband's family was able to trace us. I guess he told them about this
wonderful family that he met and we started corresponding and I guess they waited until I grew
up so when I was 18 they asked me if I would consider coming to the United States and marry
him.
JS: Did you remember him?
MF: I remembered him you know like I said he was gorgeous, look at him he was gorgeous.
JS: Very good looking.
MF: But I didn't know if I was ready to get married. Those days the United States had a program
where this military people that had they that were in Europe could bring to this country girl or wife
they met and they called it I don't remember what they call that. It'll come back and where we
these ladies they met could come to the United States for three months and see if we like it and if
we wanted to stay we only had three months to do that and he of course at the time he was not
my husband then. He had to put a deposit and a guarantee, money guarantee that I could go
back if I chose not to stay so he did he put a deposit. I see him and I wasn't going to go back so
we got married. I came in November; we got married in January.
JS: So where did you live at that time than?
MF: I lived with his mother who had been hoping to have maybe a commune or an extended
family in her house, just a plain House in North Winnebago like her daughter was married, was
living there, she was hoping that I would marry my husband and then live there and all and it
didn't happen. It didn't happen. It was horrible.
JS: Oh you didn't live after you're married?
MF: I'm married and I lived with her for about three years but things got very sour. I mean she
was a wonderful, wonderful person and I think I was a wonderful person but you just can't live
together, just doesn't work not when she felt that it was her son and I felt he was my husband so
it didn't work too well.
JS: So you came to Rockford. What did you think of Rockford when you got here?
MF: When I came I came in the wintertime and the thing that really got me most probably the
most wonderful thing was the cold weather.
JS: You liked the cold?
MF: I loved the snow. I had never, I grew up in Palermo and we never, once in awhile it would
snow but you see it fly and you see there's no flying. It just melts, never accumulates, never and
�so I was absolutely; I just went crazy over this whether I could go outside behind the door and the
snow was up to my knees. I loved it, loved it so I loved that, loved the weather.
JS: How did you acclimate yourself; did you like living in Rockford?
MF: At the time, at the time things were I came from a large city at the time; Palermo was like
500,000 people and over there we don't live in houses like we live in Rockford. You live in
condominiums; you live in apartments so you go up to the we lived in a third-floor in an apartment
it was a big apartment but it was an apartment it was not a house.
JS: You had no yard?
MF: No yard, absolutely no, no and in a way when spring came I loved that too I loved the idea
that you could go out and that's your yard and my father-in-law would make a garden and I liked
that. It was different.
JS: What was your life like before you came here?
MF: Before I came here it was still Italy was still in the economy was very, very poor still because
when I left I came here in 1948 and I think we had just barely the Americans had just barely
gotten rid of the Germans because the Germans even though they made us feel that they were
our friends; they actually occupied Italy. We were occupied. I mean Germans were everywhere
like the Americans were everywhere when they came so our life was still very, very, very tough. I
mean you couldn't go to a store and buy the food that you want. Meat was totally out but then
necessary things like oil, pasta we ate pasta, bread. We had to get those things with coupons.
We had to go to the bakery and they would cut the coupon off for the day they would give me the
certain amount of pasta so things were not the economy was very, very bad and so when I came
when I arrived my mother-in-law new that I was coming so she had all this all this should be doing
all this canning specially for me. I don't know if you ever heard of this it's called Caponata which
is an eggplant appetizer which we loved. It was a Sicilian recipe and all that good stuff and then
you know I was starving. I mean I came and all this stuff it didn't take me long to put on a lot of
weight because I wasn't used to that eating that much so that's what it was like.
JS: Did you have to, you told me that before you came here you may be were a little unsure
about coming until you saw him?
MF: Right, I wasn't sure actually one thing I knew for sure I was coming back and this is what I
told my boyfriend. I had a boyfriend and that was that; I'm coming back. I had this golden
opportunity to come to this country and you know you go to America and I wasn't going to pass it
and yeah I wasn't sure I was going to stay but I think if you would've seen my husband I think you
would've stayed too.
JS: Had you ever been you'd never been in America before had you.
MF: No no I hadn't been to any other country but Italy.
JS: What did your parents think about you getting married and moving away for good?
MF: Well my father was not in favor of it. My mother was my, mother my mother had nine
children. There were nine of us and so like I said those were difficult days so I think my mother
hoped that I would come and I would be able to call some of my brothers and sisters and that
never happened.
JS: They never came?
MF: They never came. I think I did apply for two of them and never came even close.
�JS: Did they want to come?
MF: At the time they did, at the time both of them were unemployed and they would have loved to
come but as it turned out I think it was best for them to be in Italy. One, the one that was going to
come became a dentist and my other sister then married.
JS: So they're still in Italy?
MF: Yes yeah.
JS: Do you have many that are still living siblings.
MF: They're all living. There were nine of us. They are all living except for the oldest sister and
the youngest brother.
JS: What happened to the one that had typhoid?
MF: He's the dentist.
JS: Did it take a long time for you to make arrangements before you came?
MF: I don't know how long of a time it took. I think it was in Italy things move very slowly. It's not
like this country. Anything illegal it seems like it takes forever. Yeah I had to have documents and
papers and all this. I had to go from-- it took awhile; it took a few months.
JS: What was your; did you go by ship?
MF: I came in with a ship named Saturnia. It was a sister ship to the Vocania; Vocania and
Saturnia. What's neat about this is that my youngest son was able to go back in the records and
found even my paper when I got on the boat where I had to sign so I put my signature and I’m
looking at this thing and it's unbelievable what you can do on the Internet today.
JS: Was it a difficult journey?
MF: No I was full of adventure. I loved it. Everyone was sick around me except me. Everybody
was seasick, everybody because November I think it was the 10th of November the sea was not
very nice it was and it was not like you go on a you know on one of those trips where you sit on
the deck and sunbathe and stuff like that; no it was bad it was pretty bad.
JS: How long did it take?
MF: I think it took every bit of 10 days.
JS: Where did you come in then?
MF: I came in in New York. I didn't come to what is it, Ellis Island; no they did all these
documentations they did it all on board all the, whatever they needed to do. They did it all on
board so when I got off the boat my husband to be and his mother and his brother were waiting
for me right there at the bottom of the stairs.
JS: And what year was that?
MF: 1948.
JS: And how did you get from New York to Rockford..?
�MF: They came in a car. They actually came and got me in a car big humongous Oldsmobile. In
those days they were monsters and then as we’re getting out of I think we were in New Jersey I
think we're going through New Jersey; we were waiting at some stoplights and somebody behind
us wasn't going to wait for it so he ran right through us and we ended up in a hospital. That was
my first encounter in this country in an emergency room.
JS: Were you badly hurt?
MF: No, my mother-in-law got hurt a little but we didn't. The car got hurt very badly. We had to
leave it behind and then we came to Chicago by train.
JS: You didn't know anybody in this country other than your husband?
MF: No.
JS: Did they make you feel welcome?
MF: They made me feel very welcome. Yeah, I'll never forget my especially my father-in-law he
just went totally banana over me. He loved me. Maybe it was my Italian. I don't know what it was.
JS: Were there others besides your husband; did he have brothers and sisters?
MF: Oh yeah. He had three brothers and two sisters then.
JS: Did you know was there anybody from your country in the neighborhood?
MF: No, no. Then my mother-in-law before I came my mother used to live in South Rockford so
she…
JS: Your mother-in-law?
MF: My mother-in-law used to live in South Rockford among all the Italian people but she had
bought a house on North Winnebago the 1000 block so there were no Italian people. So my
closest neighbors were all American.
JS: And you said you lived there for a couple of years and then you and your husband did you
buy a house?
MF: No, we just rented not too far from my mother-in-law. We rented an apartment. I lived with
my mother-in-law about I think I lived with her for three years and then we moved into an
apartment.
JS:
Did you have children by that time?
MF: I had two children. I had my two daughters.
JS: And you lived you said you lived close by?
MF: Very close, oh I don't know maybe a block and a half.
JS: Did you see a lot of them then?
MF: Not at the very beginning. We left and I told you the situation was pretty rough so we didn't
speak to each other but gradually yeah it improved yeah.
�JS: And where do you currently live?
MF: Now I live on Knox Drive which is not too far from here it's right up to Perryville and Spring
Creek.
JS: How long have you lived there?
MF: A long time. We bought that house in 1972.
JS: Do you have anybody living with you?
MF: Nope, my dog.
JS: Anybody from your home country in the area?
MF: Nope actually I have a friend but they didn't come from Sicily. We became friends when our
boys were playing soccer and we became very good friends and but they are from near Naples.
JS: Now we talked a little bit about the job that you had in school. Did you go to school you said
you got your GED?
MF: Here in Rockford.
JS: Did your visa limit you did it limit you to any kind of work at that time?
MF: No.
JS: When you got here how you did get around? You didn't have a driver's license?
MF: No, no actually the only one that had a driver's license I think in those days was just the man
women especially I know there was no women in our family that drove.
JS: Were you close to shopping?
MF: No we had to wait until like my husband his day off was on a Thursday so Thursday was
shopping day so everybody piled up in the car and we went grocery shopping.
JS: Did you take the buses?
MF: I, you know when I was pregnant with my first child which was in 1949 I used to go see my
doctor who was Dr. Mamalia and he had his office in the Talcott building so I had to catch a bus
to go but I couldn't speak English so my sister-in-law came with me and she did all the talking for
me. Dr. Mamalia spoke English but he also spoke a beautiful Italian. He was from Northern Italy
and after I came the first three months or so he got me in the other room and said to me next time
you come by yourself otherwise you going to end up like all those people in South Rockford.
You're not going to be able to speak English so I said to him I was afraid to tell my sister-in-law
that so I said to the doctor you tell her and so yeah then I started catching a bus. I'd come
downtown to see my doctor and then I would shop. The only thing we had in those days there
were no shopping centers in Rockford the only thing we had was downtown. We had a
Walgreens downtown and it was on North Main. I think yes North Main and we had Osco Drug
which was on the corner of Church and State right on the corner by the Talcott building so I took
my chances not knowing any English and I did go out. I did shop I don't know what I told those
people in those days so I begin to venture like that but.
JS: Was that pretty scary for you?
�MF: No no no no. I was an adventurer I think. It didn't scare me but you know prior to that I have
to say that we did not have a car because we left it in New Jersey doing that so we, my husband
and I walked like to the Coronado for a movie. In those days we had the Coronado and the Times
Theater. What was the name of the other one the palace...midway...Midway was on Auburn I
think? I think it was palace maybe so there were three theaters. Anyways he took me to the
movies a lot no less then I would say no less than twice a week and so between the movies and
between newspaper and between me, I loved to read like detective magazines. I love that kind of
stuff in Italy so I did my very best I try to understand it. In Italy I did have two years of English but
you know what you learn in school is not the same so I think I was able to kind of figure it out as
I'm reading a house for example I would see a house and I would say only gosh that's that means
a house that's how you spell it and so and then with the arrival of my babies and sending them to
school and someone had to help them with homework and it was only in English so I think that I
was able to to learn English pretty quickly pretty quickly.
JS: Did your husband speak Italian?
MF: The best that he could. He was not, this is so strange I think he learned a lot of Sicilian with
his mother, his mother maybe would translate his mother lived with the Italian people in South
Rockford so they would ask her to translate for them and I think my husband picked up a lot of
the Sicilian through his mother but he never spoke maybe he would try to explain things to me
maybe he would try to tell me in Sicilian we spoke Italian.
JS: There's a difference between Italian and Sicilian?
MF: Absolutely, Sicily was all Sicilian until Mussolini took power and then it was a law that in
school we learned Italian the Italian language. Sicilian is a dialect. In fact it's the farthest thing
from Italian you don't understand that but I was Sicilian to begin with so I knew Sicilian and then
we learned Italian in school and so I could understand him when he would speak to me in Sicilian
but then little by little he didn't anymore than I became more you know affluent with English and
he didn't but you know it's so strange that in his dying days last year maybe a month or two or
even three before he died I would go in the morning by his bed and I would say hi Nick and he
would talk Sicilian to me and I would say Nick why are you talking Sicilian and he would answer in
Sicilian.
JS: He was in.
MF: He was in bed.
JS: Yes but he didn't have any mental problems or anything?
MF: Yeah, he had dementia little by little yeah it got worse and worse and by the time he died but
it's so strange that this man was speaking perfect Sicilian. I never spoke Sicilian to him. I thought
if I went in the room and I said something in Sicilian well okay but I didn't hi Nick how you doing
and he would say and the people they would come in to help me the aids they would come in to
help me get him out of bed and he would tell me things in Sicilian against them. I dare not to
make them understand what he was saying but it's so strange that’s strange.
JS: How did you integrate yourself into the community was their clubs, church.
MF: No, no I think I think it all happened through the school system children were going to St.
Peter's I got involved you know with all the school doings and all that.
JS: Before that time though you didn't?
�MF: No no I am met a neighbor and it's so cute because now she said to me Maria I remember
those days when you would come to the house she didn't speak Italian; I didn't speak English but
I would go to her and with my hands and the little English that I knew we managed fine we
became best friends.
JS: Is she a neighbor now?
MF: No she's not a neighbor now, now she's got Alzheimer's. I still go pick her up even now and
then take her out to lunch but she still she is still a good friend of mine.
JS: How about church what church did you attend?
MF: Church we belong to St. Peter's and that's where my children went to St. Peter's.
JS: Did you belong to any other organization?
MF: Nope.
JS: How about your husband?
MF: Nope, I’m trying to remember, no my husband came back from the war pretty, pretty mentally
hurt those days they had no I don't know if you know but they didn't have any thing to give these
young guys. He came back he was severely, severely wounded.
JS: Where was he?
MF: He was severely wounded in Italy twice.
JS: No I meant on his body.
MF: Oh all over, all over, his kneecap was gone, his shoulder was gone severely wounded so
when he came back mentally he was pretty, pretty depressed and in those days you don't go to a
psychiatrist. He needed a psychiatrist badly but there was not such a thing and not only that but if
you did that it had to be oh you don't let people know that you went to a psychiatrist.
JS: Was that difficult for you?
MF: It was very difficult because he was doing I was very young and I never seen people do
what he was doing and I did not understand so I'm sure that we argued a lot.
JS: Did you know that he was having these problems before you came?
MF: No no I knew that physically he had been wounded, mentally no I didn't.
JS: Did your mother-in-law help with that.
MF: No, I think maybe was the opposite is true those days I mean she was you know from the old
school so she didn't understand it either she dare not to say that mentally he wasn't you know.
JS: What did your husband do for a living?
MF: He worked at the post office but because he was wounded twice he had a what do you call it,
he had a pension from the VA and he was able to function fine. He was you never knew that he
was so severely wounded. He really remarkably he was able to work full-time at the post office
inside he was a clerk at the post office but mentally like he would tell me he was going he would
�go to work and if I needed him during the day I would call the post office and they would say he
didn't show up this morning and he would just go to a park and spend the day in his car.
JS: That must have been difficult.
MF: It was very difficult yeah it was.
JS: Was it hard on your children too?
MF: I don't know if it was hard on the children and I was able to take on his role. I was almost like
a mother and a father to the kids. I would always make sure that he played a role in the family. I
would say oh my god wait till your dad comes home and I'll tell him. Dad never did anything; he
never disciplined them so I was the disciplinary one. We did okay. We did okay. It was hard; it
was very, very difficult the first years it was very difficult and then.
JS: Well you were very young.
MF: Yeah and then my youngest brother-in-law at the time was in college and then he went in to
law school. He's a lawyer in town and I remember the years passed before, he's the guy that
suggested that Nick needed to go to a psychiatrist so he introduced us to a psychiatrist here in
town and we went to him regularly.
JS: It helped?
MF: A little bit maybe I think it helped me more than him because I went with him and I learned all
about his problems you know I would say yeah a little bit..
JS: Were you or your husband were you active in politics or community actions of any kind?
MF: Never been what you call involved with anything serious no we've always been very much
Democrats. We talk about politics a lot. Now my children are very involved because..
JS: Let's step back a little bit here how did it feel to come to a foreign country especially how did it
compare to Sicily?
MF: Like I say I was very much an adventurer in those days. I was very excited I was excited
about coming. I was excited about the boat.
JS: When you saw New York?
MF: Well we didn't see too much of New York. We came out pretty that's why we got hit it was
nighttime when we came out of the boat we didn't see New York I seen the statue through my
little window in my room I seen that. I didn't even understand it then I don't even think it meant
very much to me then.
JS: Have your ideas changed about America since you came?
MF: Oh absolutely. I love America. I always love, I'm an American. I love America; I’ve always
been a patriot and my children of course they're like me and my husband was also very
American. I mean I bought my first foreign car and he told me he wasn't going to put a foot in that
car. He was very, very much an American.
JS: Did your move to the United States turn out like you had hoped it would?
MF: Yeah I would say yes, yes it did.
�JS: What was the best part?
MF: The best part I don't know I think I felt I had all this freedom that I didn't have in Italy. In Italy
because maybe the way we live and the condominium before you go and do anything out you
have to really you know dress up clean up you know you always lived in fear of what your
neighbor if they hear you if they see you, you wanted to you know where now sometime in the
wintertime I’m in my pajamas, I put my coat on because I'm running out of milk and that's the
mental freedom you know the freedom of thinking the way you want to think ,doing what you want
to do and I always did do my own thinking it wasn't like you know I was always free to do what I
wanted to do.
JS: Your husband didn't restrain you in any way?
MF: No not at all, no he encouraged me. He encouraged me to drive.
JS: When did you get your license then?
MF: I got my license if I'm not mistaken when I came back I had gone to Italy I think in 19 I want
to say it was 1961 and there was that was the first time I think I went back and when I came back
he insisted that I would take driving classes and I didn't want to so he started teaching me how to
drive and he wanted me to drive oh he was he gave me moral support and physical support
always and maybe that's the way I feel you know you may find somebody that came from Italy
that may didn't feel like I do. Maybe I had the right person next to me. He was very, very, very
proud of me very...
JS: What was the hardest thing and the most disappointing thing when you came here?
MF: Well all this the problems I had with my in-laws, those were very difficult times and then
coping with his mental illness which was not that you could see it. People never understood.
People never knew what I was going through because he looked normal, he acted normal all the
other things I was the only one that could see it all.
JS: Depression?
MF: Yeah, I think those were the most difficult times.
JS: How about disappointment, were you disappointed about anything here?
MF: No I don't think so; no I've never been disappointed.
JS: What did you think of Rockford when you arrived?
MF: Well like I say Rockford was a town compared to my town. I came from Palermo at the time
it was like 500,000 people and we were right on the sea I mean I would walk actually maybe six
or seven blocks or so and we were right on the sea, I mean I would walk actually maybe six or
seven blocks or so and we were on the sea, right on the beach and so we went to the beach all
the time. Our summers were spent on the beach and so I don't think I liked that Rockford did not
have a sea; that was disappointing and in the summer the man in those days the man of the
house in the summer they would go to a lake. The women didn't go.
JS: Why is that?
MF: In those days I don't think women went to the lake may be in the Fabiano family I don't know
and I couldn't understand that I wanted to go to the beach. I was pregnant and I wanted to go to
the beach.
�JS: What lake did they go to?
MF: Oh I don't know maybe Lake Delavan in Wisconsin. They would go to some lakes in
Wisconsin nearby and I do remember that there were arguments about that that I wanted to go to
the beach and that I wanted a bathing suit and my in-laws were oh my gosh oh my gosh what are
we getting into and finally I bought a bathing suit and my sister-in-law told my doctor that; can you
imagine Dr. she wants a bathing suit ,she wants to go to the beach and he said you let her go to
the beach so that's and I was the only woman that went with the guys. There were at least three
or four brothers they would go and I was the only lady.
JS: And the sister-in-law didn't want to go?
MF: No they thought it was so immoral I think they felt it was immoral especially a pregnant
woman and you know those days we weren't wearing what they wear today we were wearing the
one piece that covered you know.
JS: What did you miss most about your home in Sicily?
MF: I think at the beginning I missed my family. I think I still do a little bit. In fact we talk all the
time, all the time.
JS: How many are still over there?
MF: Well in Palermo which is my, my hometown Palermo there are two brothers and one sister.
JS: And extended family also?
MF: Right and then there is I have a brother, I have a sister in Rome a brother in Terino and I
have a brother in [Brindase].
JS: Do you get home often back to Italy?
MF: I was yeah; I went to Italy I was in Italy this past fall. I was there for my birthday. I was there
from September last two weeks of September first week of October of this past year.
JS: And then do you stay with family?
MF: I always stay with family yeah and when my husband was alive he came with.
JS: Did he enjoy it?
MF: Oh he loved Italy he really I think he was more Italian than I am. He loved Italy. He loved
Italian food.
JS: Do you think you'd ever go back there to live?
MF: No not to live no. I couldn't, no I couldn't, I couldn't lose my freedom not
JS: This is home now?
MF: Oh yeah this is home absolutely.
JS: Have you your children do they know a lot about your culture?
MF: Yes yeah they do them do especially the oldest ones you know they do.
�JS: Are they interested?
MF: They are interested and they feel very much Italian my children.
JS: Have they gone back?
MF: Oh yeah, yeah.
JS: Do you through the time they were growing up did you introduce those cultural things and the
food and all that into their life?
MF: Always yeah right, right.
JS: What kind of Italian cultural things?
MF: Yeah, we yeah we were always in fact my youngest son just had a child. I told you my
newest granddaughter and he actually corresponded with his cousins in Italy, sent the babies
pictures with the what do you call it the e-mail by e-mail he sent all the pictures so they do you
know my children are.
JS: What kind of traditions did you keep up in your home when they were growing up?
MF: Oh we kept up if you remember no you're not going to remember in those days the night
before Christmas the night before New Year’s you couldn't have meat so we made everything
without meat you know and I did this all the time and even though now I might add some sausage
or something I still go with the old-fashioned so when they come for Christmas they practically
know what we're going to have and I still make the cookies the Italian people we don't even do
that in Italy now anymore nobody, nobody does that I'm doing what my mother-in-law did before
Christmas you know we sit down and make all these Italian cookies. I still does that and I cook
very much Italian you know a lot of pasta.
JS: Do you think all of this, are your children doing this as well?
MF: No, no, no. I have one of my nieces last year ask me could you teach us to make those fig
cookies and so they came maybe a week or two before I left for Arizona and they brought all the
ingredients and I show them exactly you know to grind I don't know if you know what I'm talking
about the fig cookies those Italian fig cookies you don't know that no that's too bad you should've
told me I would have brought you some. Well anyway they came and my kids don't even know
how to do that, my daughters don't know how to do that and now my nieces do.
JS: Maybe the next generation will try to pick up more of that.
MF: Yeah, you know it's strange but my youngest son is very much into that very much into the
cooking the Italian cooking and the Italian cookies and going to church and so he is I don’t know
what maybe because he was with me the longest I don't know.
JS: What do you like to do for fun?
MF: You really want to know? I stretch myself very, very thin. I am a gardener. I make I still make
a big garden and I know what to do with all this stuff make a big garden so I'm a gardener. I was
into quilting. I was into patchwork and I love to read. I love to read. I'm never without a book
never ever. I loved to cook everybody knew me as oh a great cook now since my you know since
my family is gone away and then my husband would eat none of that slowly I'm becoming more
like my old hundred-year-old friends.
�JS: Not cooking so much.
JS: Yeah trying I'm desperately trying to go against Mother Nature which is you know pick up
something, pickup a frozen dinner at the store and just throw it in the microwave. I'm fighting it.
I'm fighting and I want to get in front of the stove not because but I don't like it but yeah I'm still
cooking for myself.
JS: Do you have outside activities? Do you do a lot of clubs or anything?
MF: I go to the gym yeah; I go to the gym regularly. I was at the gym this morning so I exercise. I
do that what else I do.
JS; Do you belong to any clubs?
MF: I belong to some support groups. When my husband was when I was taking care of him by
the way I never put him in a nursing home never even to the point where we had to get a
(unknown word) to lift him up because his body was totally shot so we had this humongous
machine to pick him up out of the chair and put him in a wheelchair and then from the wheelchair
put him in bed. We had to use all of that but I kept him at home. I was able to do that to the end..
He died at home. Actually he died in my arms really because I didn't know he was dead so I was
like you know.
JS Have you had trouble adjusting to his death?
MF: It's beginning to now he's been gone over a year and it was okay. My children thinks that of
course you know that I'm going through this adjustment but I keep on going to the support group
even know I had a you know a caregiver support group I was going to a couple of them. I still go
to those. I go to entertain them those poor people. I do so I go to the support groups than I join a
couple of support groups for grief support and I graduated from that. I was in grief and I think I
did my grief. I think I did my grieving because my husband was in that condition for years and
years and years.
JS: How long was he bedridden?
MF: Bedridden, I would say within maybe six years before he died then it was strictly a lounge
chair, in bed and wheelchair but prior to that my husband was sick for a long, long, long time. He
had shunts we had to put because he had enlarged ventricles in his brain and so at the very
beginning of the sickness he was shuffling his feet and then eventually he had to have a walker
and then eventually he had to have a wheelchair and then lost the disease just practically crawled
up to where he lost all his body functions so we had to put him in diapers and all that stuff.
JS: He was bedridden?
MF: Well between bed and a lounge chair that's why we had to get all these machines to get him
out of bed so I had these groups which I still belong to so I go to a couple of caregiver support
group. I told them last time I went that I am taking care of myself so I need to be there right and I
also told them that I come back for the cookies.
JS: You don't make them?
MF: No, they have been there. I go to Swedish American Hospital and they have a beautiful tray
of cookies. I don't go for the cookies you know what I'm talking about but I have those places and
then every last Saturday of the month I go to a club that meets at St. Anthony's Hospital and this
is all a widow and widowers club and I go just to get out you know go to church get out of there
something like a potluck and they do other things we go to the park in the summer have
picnics,you know so yeah I have a few.
�JS: This is the last question how do you feel about the current debate in this country about
immigration and immigrants legal or illegal?
MF: I tell you I tell you I was just coming back from Arizona where the problem is more severe.
We don't see anything here like they see their over there they'll stop a van on the highway and 40
people will get out and they run everywhere and they go hide everywhere and it's happening it
was happening when I was there. I feel really terrible about the situation because I am an
immigrant but I went through the legal channel I applied for citizenship.
JS: How long did it take for you?
MF: It wasn't that short I bet it took me from the moment I applied it took me a good two or three
years before I became a citizen.
JS: And then you took the test?
MF: I took the test and I had a little flag.
JS: How did you feel when you.
MF: I was proud I don't know I always felt American .I think I felt American from day one totally
with the culture totally and I feel bad about the situation that we have right now because with
among the illegal immigrants first of all your going to find even other people from other countries
they come in here through Mexico. It's not just the Mexicans there are people we don't even know
who they are there coming even from Iran and Iraq and South America and everywhere but I feel
real bad because a lot of this illegal immigrants are real honest people like we are and they come
to this country and they're kind of caught where they are afraid to speak up for themselves
because they are illegal and they feel they're going to send them back so they have no really no
real protection but then we have the bad people who come in who are wanted by the law in
Mexico they're able to come in you know you don't see much of it over here but especially in
Arizona all the workers like people who were doing my lawn they can't speak English talking to
them and they have to turn to somebody else and somebody else and I'm sure they're all illegal
and what do we do if they send those people back who was going to do their work let me assure
you Americans don't want to do that. They’re not going to want to do that so it's too bad I wish
they'll find a solution for that because there are some very good people who can't come legally
they cannot come legally so and they come illegally I wish they would find a solution for that I
really do because they do have some really good people among them.
JS: Okay, thank you.
MF: Well, you're welcome.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Language
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English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
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Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seegers
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Maria Fabiano
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Maria Fabiano
Date
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3/24/08
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Maria Fabiano was born and raised in Sicily. She immigrated to the United States in 1948 and came right to Rockford, Illinois.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Gustave Gilg
Interviewed June 27, 2007
By: Megan Zuba
Midway Village Museum
�Gustav Gilg
Megan Zuba: What is your name?
Gustave Gilg: My name is Gustav Gilg G-I-L-G
MZ: How old are you?
GG: How old I am, that's personal
MZ: Are you married
I
GG: I am married. I have been married almost 56 years
MZ: Do you have any children?
GG: I have four children. One lives near Chicago, one lives near Philadelphia and one in
Machesney Park and the youngest one is in Rockford.
MZ: Where was your country of origin?
GG: I was born in Haiti, Port-au-Prince, Haiti. Swiss origin so when I came to this country they
gave me a visa on the basis of where I was born, not of my nationality. It would've been a lot
more difficult to have a permit from Switzerland. There is a long list waiting list but for Haiti it is a
lot shorter.
MZ: So when did you decide to come to the United States?
GG: Well that was why I came to the United States to go to college because I needed to get out
of Haiti and go on with my education.
MZ: What was your life like in Haiti?
GG: It was fairly good. We had a good situation. My dad had a business and we had good
friends and I went to school there for high school and after high school I worked for my father for
two years and then I came to the United States and studied business in college.
MZ: What kind of business did your dad have?
GG: My dad had an import and export business. He imported some products like pharmaceutical
products, office, machines, etc. Then he exported coffee and that's why he was in Haiti originally.
MZ: So when you came to the United States, what city did you come to first?
GG: I came to Washington because I had my older sister was in Washington and then I came to
Harvard to find myself around and since I was in Washington they told me that Georgetown
University was good so I went there and they accepted me and I started studying there.
Something that attracted me there is because they have the wartime schedule and I could
graduate in three years rather than four years and I did it in two years and nine months.
MZ: Did you know anyone living in the United States around your area that was from Haiti?
GG: Well no I didn't know they came in once in a while in New York. In Washington I didn't know
anybody.
�MZ: So when you were living in Haiti did anyone else influence your decision to come to United
States? Had any of your friends been to the United States?
GG: No, well we had many friends who were Americans and we were close to the United States
and we often talked about the United States and I had relatives in California my mother's family
was there and I had two uncles and aunts and cousins over there and I had visited them in 1932
when I was only six.
MZ: So you had made a trip to the United States before?
GG: Yes and in 1939 I went through New York to go to Europe and the war came so I came back
to New York again and down to Haiti so I was familiar with the United States. We studied a lot
about it in school. We were neighbors.
MZ: So what did you do right after college where did you go?
GG: Well I went the way for me I meant to mention that yesterday that from Haiti, New York was
the United States we only spoke about New York people went through New York so I went to
New York looking for work and I ended up working in an export business thread forwarding for a
couple of years that was boring to work filling out paper's all-time. Then I went on to the
international division in a bigger corporation and then I went on to work as an export Sales
Representative for a factory and I started to travel.
MZ: So but when you came to Haiti did you have your family with you did your family moved back
with you to the United States or was it just you?
GG: No what family my parents stayed in Haiti.
MZ: Your parents stayed in Haiti?
GG: Yes I have four sisters. They were all scattered. I had two in Canada at that time, one in the
United States and one got married. She went with her husband other places
MZ: So starting out in New York when you are in college in Washington where did you live?
GG: Well I lived in a boarding house and that was very good. I'm glad I did not stay on campus
which is what attracted me in the first place. On campus there is a lot of kids I was not used to
unruly life like that. I was too old. I was 20 years old and the other kids behaved like they were in
their teens. It was better in a boarding house where I had two meals a day. I did not have my
privacy like I would like to but it was okay and when I got tired of the food I moved. I went to
another boarding house.
MZ: Was it an all boys boarding house or was it co-ed?
GG: The boarding house was full of girls oh it was but we had the first floor was for the men and
then the girls were upstairs. That's the way they divided.
MZ: So where else did you travel in the United States after you moved to different places after
when you were living in New York? Where did that take you?
GG: Well okay when I started travel in 1957 I went through Latin America for two months living in
New York all the way down to Chile and back through Central America and came back home for
two months and I enjoyed it very much. I met many people on the trip who knew my family
indirectly or directly and very coincidently and then in 1958 and went to Europe starting in Ireland
and went down to Belgium and England and all that and it went all the way to Iran and came
back down to the Congo and went all around Africa and back through Germany and Denmark
�and back to New York in 60 days and after that I was getting ready to go to Asia and my boss
went to Asia instead and by coincidence I started a business in Puerto Rico so I moved there.
MZ: What kind of business was it?
GG: It was office machines and supplies that we had in Puerto Rico.
MZ: So it's still there you established it there?
GG: No, it lasted 10 years and I had to go look for work and a friend of mine invited me to
Arlington Heights and that is where I got in touch with National Lock and I started working for
them.
MZ: So then when did you come to Rockford?
GG; That is in Rockford National Lock?
MZ: When was that then?
GG: That was in 1972.
MZ: And you came because a friend told you about it?
GG: Because of the job yes. I met the person who knew about an opening and I came to
Rockford. I applied for the job and I got it.
MZ: So how was living in Rockford? Where did you end up? Where did you stay first?
GG: At first I had well it was very nice I had rented a room for a couple of months and one of my
sons came up from Puerto Rico and I looked around and got an apartment on Fairview Blvd. and
from there the rest of the family came up and I looked for a house and I got one where I live now
since 1973. Yeah, it's a very nice neighborhood.
MZ: So did you ever meet anyone from home from Haiti that you still keep in contact with?
GG: I've got that Dr. Dubois. I did not know him in Haiti but I met him here and he has a picnic
every year so we meet there and he has some patients I don't know. Some I had to help when
they first came. I taught them English then I counseled them too because they had children in
school and they were raised a little bit differently than Americans here, very strict with a belt they
corrected them anyhow so , but I did not keep in touch with them. I have friends that I met in
Puerto Rico who are from Haiti. My Neighbor in Haiti was also in Puerto Rico and I met some of
them but otherwise nobody here.
MZ: What about do you see any major differences between the culture and Haiti and Rockford
and the United States do you brought any of your, I don't know, anything you used to do in Haiti
that you brought over?
GG: Not really I lived I am the same person and I married a Swiss girl that I met in New York but
here I lived exactly the way I want to. It’s very comfortable and I got and because of my Spanish I
got involved in the Spanish community first with the Catholic Church we had the meetings for the
Hispanic community. We had meetings at their home every week and I kept in touch with them
like that.
MZ: Where were you living at that time?
�GG: Same place in Rockford. Yes in Rockford they have a big community then I started working
with the Department of Health because I had Spanish so I accompanied nurses who visited the
new mothers to offer them their services so I went there to translate.
MZ: What languages do you know when you came to the United States?
GG: Well when I first came to college I had a background in French and of course I studied
French but in that school I had eight years of English, seven years of Spanish, six years of Latin
and I forgot most of the Latin maybe two words. When I went to Puerto Rico I expanded my
knowledge of Spanish and when I came to Rockford I speak Spanish and I talked to the
Hispanics and then after awhile I worked with National Lock and then they closed their office so I
had to look for something to do all kinds of work and I ended up with the Department of Health,
Winnebago Health Department and from there I started to want to expand my knowledge so I
went to school at DeKalb University and started to become a counselor. So I got a masters
degree and while I studied that I worked in different places in Rockford and I started to counsel
people the Hispanics because I had contact with St. Mary's Church and I could use one of their
rooms there to counsel couples and families and then I worked with the Department of
Rehabilitative Services because I spoke Spanish so I had the Hispanic community. So when I
finished my work there when I retired I expanded my work as a counselor for the Hispanics and I
have clients of DCFS. They gave me families to counsel for awhile and that dried up by now but I
had a few families and that was very interesting work. That is what I should have done from the
beginning of my life.
MZ: So what other groups did you teach English? I know you said you taught Hispanic people but
what other groups have you taught?
GG: I taught English to the refugees from Yugoslavia, from the Congo they had a few families
here who spoke a bit of French and from there I could teach them English.
MZ: And how did you get involved in that?
GG: The Catholic charities gave me one because I had seen a paper in the Observer that is he
Catholic paper that announced the arrival of an Asian family and Catholic Charities was taking
care of them. So I called them and asked if I could help and while I was teaching them English
their neighbors were refugees from Yugoslavia and they asked to help and then I explained it like
that.
MZ: Are you involved in your church a lot in Rockford?
GG: Well right now I'm retired but I'm with the Holy Family and get involved in the church there
but I'm no longer outside very much. In the Knight of Columbus we have very few activities.
MZ: Were you involved in any political organizations?
GG: Political, no. I had a job as, politician gave me the job as a how do you call that a GED
Examiner. I was a GED examiner for a while. That was quite interesting.
MZ: You had quite a lot of jobs.
GG: Yes it was very nice.
MZ: So when did you become a citizen of the United States?
GG: Alright when I came to the United States when I became a resident that time because I
came here as a student and my visa expired when I'd finished school so I had to do something so
I decided to become a resident and there was a school for residents for that in Washington in
�immigration school that took care of all the documentation and when it was ready I had to get out
of the country and then come back because my passport had to have the stamp of residents and
the immigration officer told me that I had all the rights of a citizen except that I could not vote and
I could not run for office. That was the limitation and I was quite satisfied with that. I could do
anything I wanted and then when two of my children were born they were American citizens and
then I decided to become a citizen so I'd wait five years and in 1954 I became a citizen.
MZ: Was that really exciting for you?
GG: Oh yes of course. It was very great when I travel I was a citizen I could go anywhere. People
respected Americans at that time.
MZ: So what other jobs did you have in Rockford?
GG: One other job I had was with the Epilepsy Association. It was a volunteer job but I had to
translate movie films that they had on epilepsy and when I showed it was in English and I showed
it to Hispanics and so I had to translate it for them.
MZ: So you just said what was going on in the movie to them?
GG: Yes, I translated what they were saying and show them what was going on, yes.
MZ: How many years did you do that for?
GG: I did that for a short time, maybe for a year or so.
MZ: So you're saying that you wish you'd done counseling your entire life. Why do you like it so
much?
GG: Well because it's easy to do that, to listen and to try to help somebody solve the problems
and I had while working with Dors, the Department of rehab I had many people that I helped.
Ten years later they call me to thank me again. I don't even remember them you know and that
is very unusual and in one of the clients I helped on my own. The woman had a lot of problems
with her husband and I helped her and she told me once that she could not have done it without
me, how how much it had helped, I don't know exactly. It helped her to be able to talk to
somebody when you have a problem otherwise you explode. I wanted to mention that DCFS
contacted the Epilepsy Association and even then without working with her once in awhile I did
get in contact for that to present a film on epilepsy. That was good.
MZ: So are you still doing any of that currently, teaching English?
GG: I only teach English because the Catholic Charities call me and I’m helping them with the
family who arrived from the Congo and the man speaks French. It is difficult to understand his
French. but he does and I'm able to teach him English. He says he knows the English in writing
but he doesn't know how to pronounce it. I would like to repair one of my dictating machines so
that I can put on the tape and he can repeat it gradually.
MZ: Do you have any plans of going back to Haiti any time in your life?
GG: No, I left Haiti in 1945 and I went back a couple times to visit my parents. I have no desire to
live there and I left Puerto Rico in 1972. I have no desire to go back there either.
MZ: You're happy with living here?
GG: Yes, I pick up my roots and I move.
�MZ: So did you ever miss your parents when you were living in the United States?
GG: I miss them for sure. I would write them regularly and I would see them once in awhile but
not since I'm in Rockford. It is very difficult because that's when they died when I came.
MZ: Did you keep in contact with any friends that lived in Haiti?
GG: We had a couple of friends. We would call each other once in a while or write and the other
day I had a call from a friend from Haiti and I realize hey wait a minute that was 62 years ago.
We are not chickens anymore we; are not kids anymore.
MZ: What do you think about the weather difference from Haiti and the United States? How do
you like that?
GG: One reason why I didn't go back to Haiti is because it's so hot and I didn't like the heat at all.
MZ: It sounds like you integrated yourself really well in the United States. Do you have any
trouble doing that, adjusting?
GG: No, well I did not enjoy living in New York because New York is too crowded. You don't meet
anyone. You're crowded against each other. I lived in an apartment. I never met my neighbor. It
was a big apartment building and I never met my neighbor. It was too busy; people are too busy.
We would take the train, an express train from Natchez Street down to Wall Street half an hour
nose to nose collected people touching each other, you never meet them, I didn't like that always
running. You didn't have time to live life, you just have to rush, rush, rush work and then I moved
to New Jersey and I had to take a bus to New York and from the bus to the subway and then
back to the bus every day. Yes to go to work and I started working in New Jersey too and that
took me 45 minutes by car to drive all the way to Hoboken and I never met friends in that route
only ones from Hoboken New Jersey. We had my job was in a building course it was a factory in
old section of Hoboken but going to Puerto Rico was good because there we have a different life
style. Neighbors talk to each other. You have time for that.
MZ: How was your experience in Puerto Rico?
GG: Very good.
MZ: You were there 14 years you said?
GG: Yes in Puerto Rico I had a business. I joined the Chamber of Commerce and the Better
Business Bureau and they were very good people. I was amazed because coming from New
York where the impression was that Puerto Rico wasn't nice and they would fight there are
beautiful people down there. The president of Lions International is from Puerto Rico or at that
time was. The president of the Junior Chamber of Commerce was Puerto Rican too so Puerto
Ricans are very much up to date.
MZ: So you lived with your wife in Puerto Rico right? When did you end up getting married back
in New York?
GG: We married in New York in 1949.
MZ: When did you have your children?
GG: It happened well I'll tell you the story my wife is Swiss and she had an aunt who had met a
Swiss who was from Haiti. They traveled together on a ship going to Europe and coming back
and there was a Swiss party in New York and they invited me to go to that party and I met the
�aunt and when my wife came to New York the aunt invited me so I met her and that's how it was
so. That's how it all started.
MZ: So do you have any stories from Puerto Rico?
GG: The moustache, well when I started to travel to Latin America and decided that it was better
not to be taken as a gringo completely so I dressed correctly like an American would, a jacket and
neck tie all the time and I let myself have a moustache so people never knew exactly if I was a
local or a stranger. Except one time when I went down to the dining room in a small hotel and I
decided it was so warm I didn't put my jacket on. I didn't put a necktie on. Somebody came to
me talking to me in Spanish addressing me as a captain. I said well that's too much too
dangerous so I kept my mustache.
So what did you do for fun? Did you have time for yourself to do anything?
GG: Well in Puerto Rico I went back to play tennis. I used to play tennis in Haiti when I was
younger and I never developed any special aptitude to be a professional player but I was enjoying
it very much and in Puerto Rico I met a friend who was interested in playing tennis too and we
played tennis quite often especially at night when it's cooler. That was very good and here I try to
play too with the kids and it's a very good sport.
MZ: Did you play any other sports other than tennis?
GG: No, in Puerto Rico I used to play soccer with the Swiss team. They were the cooks at the
Swiss chalet. We would play at night; that was fun.
MZ: So was tennis a really big sport in Haiti?
GG: Well for us it was because we were members of the country club and tennis was available
which was a nice group of people and very good courts. So we played very well.
MZ: Did you have a lot of American friends in Haiti?
GG: No, I did not have American friends in Haiti. They were all Haitians or French or half but no
Americans because they were very secluded. They had the American club and we didn't belong
to the American club.
MZ: So how is the schooling there and everything?
GG: The school was excellent. My school was run by the French Christian Brothers and they
were all Frenchmen from Brittany so we had a thorough school. A very good school,
MZ: Was it a public or private?
GG: No, it was a private school but it was inexpensive enough that anybody could go to that
school buy they were very strict, very orderly, very, very strict so we were well-trained and I
learned a lot about the United States a that school you know about Europe of course.
MZ: So what you think has been best part about coming to the United States?
GG: The best part is feeling at home and being free not to worry about who's going to spy on me
except lately that's a different story again. I don't know who's listening to my telephone.
MZ: So you really feel like right when you came here did you feel an automatic sense of being an
American or did you have to wait for your citizenship?
�GG: No when I came and went to school I was with guys who were older. I was 20 and the
average age was 35. They were all veterans from World War II and they were so nice, so open,
so friendly. I decided by golly I'm going to stay here. I had more contacts here than ever in my
life so in a short time so it was fine.
MZ: Did you ever feel unwelcome?
GG: No not at all. As a matter of fact seeing how much trouble some of the immigrants have
nobody has ever stopped me to find out if I had a green card or not because of my color I guess.
So unless I talk when I talk then they question me where do you come from ,where do you have
an accent from?
MZ: What do you think has been the most disappointing part, the hardest part of living in the
United States?
GG: The most difficult is work. It is very difficult to find a job that you like and that you want.
MZ: But you felt like you've found that eventually?
GG: Eventually working with the Department of Rehab was the best because it was something I
enjoyed doing except that it was not necessarily the most pleasant. You have a lot of problems,
dealing with problems and people who have problems but otherwise when I was traveling I didn't
mind going to Latin America. It was fun because I met people; sometimes I met people from
school. I bumped into them or some Swiss who knew about somebody else I knew. It was fun.
MZ: So how did you raise your children through traveling going everywhere throughout the world?
Where did you raise them?
GG: Well first of all we went to Puerto Rico when the youngest one was born so until then they
went to school, parochial school in New Jersey and then we went to Puerto Rico and they went to
parochial schools there and that was very good too, excellent schools.
MZ: Did you tell them a lot about your life in Haiti? Was it important to you to tell them?
GG: Well when we were down there we went to Haiti once in a while to visit.
MZ: Show them where you grew up and stuff?
GG: Yes. So they knew the family and then you where I lived and whatever. They’re fine.
MZ: Do you think that they'll go back to Haiti someday? Do you think that you growing up there,
being born there is important to them at all?
GG: They do feel like I have one especially who would like to go and visit but I don't encourage
them to go to live there now. It's very difficult, a very difficult situation.
MZ: So you said you have one child living here in Rockford?
GG: Yes
MZ: Do you guys do a lot together?
GG: Well he's married so that's a different situation. He takes care of his family.
�MZ: Yes that's true. Do you have any friends that you've kept close ties with since college that
you still talk to now?
GG: I have one friend from Georgetown University. He lives near Washington, DC so we write to
each other at Christmas that's about all. Yes that's difficult in life to be pulling my roots out and
starting. It’s not easy to make friends when you are past 50 years. You're settled. You go to your
neighbors, your nice neighbors.
MZ: So you have free time now right what do you do for fun?
GG: For fun what is fun? Right now I spend a lot of time reading the newspaper which I get. It
gets me very upset because I don't like the paper at all, the Rockford paper and then I get the
Tribune, also the Chicago Tribune. It takes good care of that and then I teach English that takes
care of one or two days and then only an hour and a half each time I keep busy like that at home.
MZ: So being an immigrant to the United States how do you feel about the current debates and
issues?
GG: I am not interested in what's going on really. These people are here and frankly you would
not know the difference if they are illegal or legal. They come and they work. That's what they
want. They want to work. Now some of them bring drugs too I guess but the main idea is that they
come here to work. Now if you want to give them a visa then they have to go back to Mexico for
10 years before coming back, forget it. They are not going to do it like that because they are
hungry. They need a job. There is no work over there. That's the problem now to do it well maybe
we should set up more factories over there to attract them back to work but after a while the work
goes to China so I am happy to be here in Rockford. It's very nice here. I remember walking
down to National Lock from Fairview Blvd. You know where it is I walked down to 19th Street and
7th Ave all the beautiful yards. They have birds, squirrels running around, rabbits, that country
living compared to Puerto Rico where it's so crowded and fast people are always fast, fast. It's
very different. It's very pleasant, very nice. In 1957 when I was visiting Latin America I stopped in
Colombia, first I stopped in Venezuela. My sister knew a Swiss couple in Venezuela when she'd
been there so we got together and they gave me the name of their family in Santiago, Chile so I
left there and went to Columbia and I was to the city of Cali which is a very large city but I was
walking down the streets and I saw her name of a business (unknown name) and I said well that
Swiss because in New York we had a Swiss council by the name (unknown name again). So I
walked in and I introduced myself and I told him that my dad is Swiss council in Haiti and they
said well come back we'll have coffee together. So we did. He introduced me to Mr. Souter who
was vice consul of Switzerland for Cali who told me I should go and talk to his brother who had a
bakery store right next to my hotel. I got there, gave my card to the wife who was at the counter
and she gave it to him at the back and he called do you know somebody Gilg in France? I said
yeah have my uncle (unintelligible word). Well he had a business with him for 25 years. So that
was fantastic and then I went to Ecuador in Guayaquil I came down for dinner one night and right
there at the elevator was a friend from school. He was from Ecuador we established contacts
there he was very friendly. I got on the plane there was an officer from Columbia going to Chile as
the military attaché but I didn't know that and on the plane he had three or four kids and I called
one of the girls sat next to me so I taught her English, to count in English and she thought it was
so funny she asked me if I would help her sister so they changed seats. So when we got to
Ecuador and he was going on and staying he gave me his card and told me that I should call
him when I get there and I did and I saw them and they were so happy to see me and yet it was
five minute deal . You know that's nice. I really enjoyed that very much
MZ: It seems like you've traveled so much. What's your favorite place you've ever traveled to?
GG: It’s home yes.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Gustave Gilg
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Megan Zuba
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gustave Gilg
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
June 27, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Gustave Gilg was born in Haiti. He came to the United States in 1945 and to Rockford, Illinois in 1972.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
John Ianni
Interviewed 12/28/2007
By Jean Seegers
Midway Village Museum
�John Ianni
Jean Seegers: What is your name?
John Ianni: John Ianni
JS: And are you married, widowed, divorced...
JI: I'm widowed...
JS: And how many children did you have?
JI: Two...
JS: And their names...
JI: Paula and Marilyn...
JS: And your wife's name...
JI: My wife's name was Mamie...
JS: Your children are they both in the area?
JI: Well Marilyn died. Paula's in Greenville, South Carolina.
JS: Do you have grandchildren?
JI: Does she have children?
JI: Yes.
JS: Do you have grandchildren?
JI: Yes
JS: And their names?
JI: John and Sarah
JS: What about your education? Were you educated in Rockford?
JI: Yes high school.
JS: How long have you been in this country?
JI: Since 1927...
JS: And you came from where...
J: Italy...
JS: Whereabouts...
JI: I came from a town on the Adriatic side the Mediterranean called the Montagali.
�JS: What kind of town was it was it a small town?
JI: Yeah it was a real small, small hilly town I think I told you the story about tying a bandanna
around the chicken’s rear so the egg wouldn't roll down the hill.
JS: It was very hilly there?
JI: Yeah.
JS: And you came in 1927 you said?
JI: Yes and I got put on Ellis Island
JS: Who did you come with?
JI: Well I came with my father and my mother...
JS: And your sister also?
JI: No she stayed in Rome she married the postmaster in Rome and she stayed there and that's
why I have three nieces in Italy yet near (Imbratia?)...
JS: She was quite a bit older than you...
JI: Yes she was the oldest.
JS: How many children?
JI: Who?
JS: How many siblings did you have?
JI: Me?
JS: You had your older sister and was there another one was it just the two of you?
JI: It was my brother and my sister and me.
JS: And how old were you when you came here?
JI: Five
JS: Do you remember anything about your life in Italy before you came here?
JI: No not very much...
JS: Why do you think your parents wanted to come to the United States?
JI: Land of opportunity.
JS: Were they poor? Did they have trouble making money?
JI: Yes, yes we came from a poor family.
JS: How did you come to come to the United States did someone sponsor you?
�JI: No I came with my folks.
JS: I meant your family did someone sponsor them did you have relatives in the United States?
JI: .Um yes my mother had relatives here in Rockford.
JS: And they encouraged you to come?
JI: Yes well we stopped when we came we stopped at Ellis Island then we went to Pennsylvania
and from there we came to Rockford.
JS: How long did you spend in Pennsylvania?
JI: A year
JS: How about Ellis Island?
JI: Just a jump off place.
JS: Did you not like Philadelphia?
JI: We didn't go to Philadelphia...
JS: Where did you say that you were?
JI: Pittsburgh...
JS: You didn't like it there?
JI: I don't remember my dad was a coal miner...
JS: Was there work for him here in Rockford
JI: My dad...
JS: Was there some work for him to do?
JI: Here in Rockford no we went on Cunningham Road and we went on a little farm a little farm
house and we lived there and we had some cows and my dad would take the milk and make
these little cheeses, round cheese and we had cheese all over the basement and up in the thirdfloor and that's why I hate cheese. I can't stand cheese.
JS: So he was a cheese maker that's what your father did he was a cheese maker?
JI: He was a coal miner.
JS: But in the United States...
JI: Yes on the farm he made cheese...
JS: Is that what he did to make a living or did he have some other job?
JI: Well we had some acreage there and we farmed the acreage.
JS: Did you own the property?
JI: No
�JS: Do you remember why your parents decided to come to America was it because they thought
they could do better here?
JI: Yes
JS: And you had relatives in Rockford?
JI: Yes
JS: You had never been in this country before had you?
JI: No
JS: Did you come with other people besides your parents and your brother was there a group of
you that came?
JI: I don't remember. I imagine there was
JS: Do you remember your trip here across you took a boat I imagine.
JI: Yes
JS: Did your family know anyone before you came here other than that sister?
JI: Well we had two uncles that lived here, Joe Rossi and Carl Ross.
JS: They lived in Rockford?
JI: Yes they were both plumbers.
JS: And did they help you get settled then?
JI: Yes
JS: Did you live at that address most of your growing up years on Cunningham Road you said
you lived on Cunningham?
JI: Well we lived there for a while yes.
JS: And then where did you go?
JI: Then I bought a house on Dresden Avenue by Rockford Memorial.
JS: Your parents did or...
JI: I did...
JS: That's when you grew up?
JI: Yes 2409 Dresden Ave.
JS: Where did you go to school when you were living out on Cunningham?
JI: I went to West High School. I was the first graduates from West High School.
�JS: Was it your mother's brothers that were living here?
JI: Yes.
JS: Did they live out on that same area?
JI” Yes they lived in Rockford.
JS: Did your mother work?
JI: No.
JS: What was it like in your home did you have a lot of Italian customs that you kept alive could
you tell me some of them please?
JI: Well Christmas time we made cannoli and stuff like that and then we'd have fish before
midnight and stuff like that.
JS: That was the custom?
JI: Yes then go to church.
JS: Any other besides Christmas customs that you had?
JI: Well Thanksgiving we always had Thanksgiving at our house on Dresden down in the
basement.
JS: What was your neighborhood like when you were out on Cunningham Road was at all Italians
or was it kind of a mix of people.
JI: No know it was a mix.
JS: Did you associate mainly with Italian people?
JI: No our neighbors were named Garrett they were Catholics but very nice people.
JS: Did your parents speak Italian most of the time in your home?
JI: Yes.
JS: And you understood it?
JI: Yes.
JS: When did you start speaking English?
JI: When I came to the United States.
JS: You started school maybe?
JI: Yes.
JS: Did they learn English pretty fast or were they kind of reluctant?
�JI: Well my mother never learned it too fast neither did my father.
JS: They were more comfortable with Italian did they speak any at all when they came any
English when they came to this country?
JI: Very little if any.
JS: Was English your first language or it was just something you spoke at home?
JI: We spoke mostly Italian at home. I went to school here. I went to O.F. Barber School on
Montague Rd. there and you know as a joke I never did learn how to cut hair. It's a barber
school.
JS: Did your folks encourage you to speak English and become more Americanized?
JI: Yes.
JS: What did they say? What did they do?
JI: Well they said this was a land of opportunity we should live with what their customs are.
JS: To learn to speak English huh?
JI: Yeah
JS: How about the rest of the neighborhood did you find a lot of different languages in your
neighborhood?
JI: Oh yes there were all kinds of people. There were colored people; there were white people
some were nice some didn't care.
JS: How much schooling did your parents complete in Italy?
JI: I don't think very much neither one of them.
JS: What was their attitude about school?
JI: Well they know you have to have an education to get by.
JS: Did they encourage you?
JI: Oh yes very much so.
JS: Beyond high school did they encourage you to go beyond high school?
JI: Well yes but I never got above high school.
JS: I just wondered if they talked about you going to college.
JI: Well yes they believed in education.
JS: And you went to Barbour School you said and then you went to West High?
JI: Yes.
JS: How about church where did you go to church?
�JI: Well actually I went to St. Bernadette's over on the west side.
JS: Were you pretty involved with the church?
JI: Yes.
JI: How about your parents?
JI: Yes we were the originals there.
JS: So your parents were pretty involved with the school?
JI: No.
JS: What did your mom do you said she didn't work and she wasn't involved with the church did
she have some kind of hobbies or something that she did that occupied her time?
JI: No she had troubles she had rheumatism and arthritis and stuff so she couldn't do too much.
JS: So she just kind of stayed at home?
JI: Yes.
JS: Did the Italians in your neighborhood or those that you knew your relatives did you get
together at a club or anything like that did you belong to any organization?
JS: No I didn't.
JS: Your family?
JI: No
JS: What was your first job?
JI: I worked at Barber Colman.
JS: That was your first job?
JI: Yes I took an apprenticeship there.
JS: And what did you do?
JI: I learned to become a machinist.
JS: How long was your apprenticeship?
JI: It was supposed to be four years.
JS: Is that what it was?
JI: Yes.
JS: And then you are on your own doing it what did you do tell me about what you did?
JI: I became a tool and die maker and I became a lead man in tool and die on the fourth floor of
Barber Colman.
�JS: How old were you when you started that?
JI: I don't know.
JS: You were out of high school?
JI: Yes.
JS: And were you living at home at the time?
JI: Yes.
JS: How did your parents feel about you working there?
JI: Okay.
JS: Have you done any other kind of work besides working at Barber Colman?
JI: Well I took up a hobby fixing lawnmowers and snow blowers, vacuum cleaners and stuff like
that. I got a garage back here which I still do that.
JS: Did you do that all through your working years?
JI: Yes.
JS: Now when you moved to Dresden you said is where you lived Dresden that’s a street in
Rockford right?
JI: Yes.
JS: In addition to regular jobs did you do that all through the years?
JI: No.
JS: It was a hobby more or less. Who were your friends when you were young?
JI: Well I had a lot of friends. I don't know who they are.
JS: Have you kept in touch with them?
JI: No.
JS: No one from the old neighborhood okay do you remember your friends back then what kind of
kids they were?
JI: No.
JS: You don't remember them?
JI: No.
JS: Do you think most of them were from different places maybe not born in the United States?
JI: Yes there was a mixture.
�JS: You don't remember much about the kids or what you did to play what kind of things you did?
JI: No I don't.
JS: How do you feel about how your parents accepted our American culture did you agree that
they wanted to remain an Italian?
JI: Yes.
JS: Or did you encourage them to try to be more American?
JI: Well we wanted to go with the flow.
JS: Can you think of any instances where your mother or father didn't accept the American
culture they wanted to keep things as they were?
JI: No.
JS: Were they open to new things new ways of doing things?
JI: Oh yes very much so.
JS: How about their clothing and that type of thing did they dress like Americans?
JI: They dressed regularly.
JI: Were you ever embarrassed that they were a little different?
JI: No.
JS: Did anybody ever pick on you or your brother or your parents for being different?
JI: Well yes they picked on me at Barber Colman. They told me I was in the Mafia and everything
else. I had nothing to do with Sicily because I came from northern Italy but they would still pick
on you you know.
JS: Do you think it was done in a mean way or were they just teasing you?
JS: No, no they meant it.
JS: Did they ever get angry or get physical with you or anything like that?
JI: Yes I worked in a tool gang you know and then I got transferred to the die gang at Barber
Colman and I asked the guy there his name was Oscar Bolander if I could get in the die gang and
he says oh my no; we have nothing but Scandinavians here so I got thrown out.
JS: Because you were Italian?
JI: Yes.
JS: How did you feel about that?
JI: Well I felt slighted but you have to take it as it comes.
JS: Were there any superstitions or customs or traditions that you continued to do in your own
home after leaving your own home did you keep up some of these traditions?
�JI: What kind of traditions?
JS: Whatever Italian traditions.
JI: Yes we cooked a lot of Italian food and we kept a lot of customs.
JS: Now what was your wife's name?
JI: Mamie.
JS: Was Mamie Italian also?
JI: Yes.
JS: Did she was she second-generation in the United States were her parents born in Italy also?
JI: No she was born in America.
JS: Did she bring customs and things into your marriage too from her family?
JI: No she was Sicilian.
JS: Were there any Italian superstitions that you can tell me about?
JI: Not really.
JS: You don't know any Italian superstitions? Okay. Did they celebrate any other holidays or
anything Italians then we celebrate in this country?
JI: No well they celebrate St. Lucy Day or something which was a holiday
JS: Is that shortly before Christmas?
JI: I don't remember before or after I don't.
JS: Were you involved in that then?
JI: No.
JS: Did your parents think it was important for you to remember your roots?
JI: Yes sure.
JS: What did they say about that?
JI: They didn't say much about it but everybody likes to remember their heritage.
JS: And they encouraged you to do that?
JI: Yes.
JS: When you were young did you have an interest in knowing what your parents life was like in
Italy did you ask them questions?
�JI: Yes I had a grandfather that was from Italy. He came over to this country. My two uncles
brought him over. He was hard of hearing; he liked to play cards and we lived out on the farm like
I told you and he'd walk on the farm and play cards. He would walk back but then they sent him
back to Italy and he died out there at a ripe old age.
JS: Was he just here visiting?
JI: Well he wanted to go back.
JS: He missed Italy?
JI: Yes.
JS: How long was he here?
JI: I don't know maybe five years I'm guessing.
JS: And then he wanted to go back home?
JI: Yes.
JS: Did you have a lot of contact with him?
JI: Yes.
JS: What did you do together?
JI: Well we played cards.
JS: Anything else?
JI: No.
JS: Do you think you became more interested in knowing about your previous life in Italy or your
parent’s life as you got older as you got older did you think more about your roots?
JI: No not really.
JS: Have you been back to Italy?
JI: No I'm not going back either.
JS: You're not interested in going back?
JI: No.
JS: Now why is that?
JI: I'm happy here.
JS: How about your children are they interested?
JI: Well Marilyn went back and she visited with my nieces while she was there in Venice but since
then she died. Now my other one I think they went back there but I don't think I'm not sure if they
made contact with my nieces or not.
�JS: Are there quite a few relatives there than you said nieces and nephews do they come and
visit?
JI: No.
JS: Never?
JI: No I never hear from them.
JS: Did your parents ever go back?
JI: No.
JS: You keep in touch do you write do you write to your nieces or nephews?
JI: No.
JS: Are there friends or relatives that you kept in contact with in that country?
JI: Well I got an aunt that's down in St. Anne's. She’s come from Italy I see her quite a bit and
keep in touch with her.
JS: She came here at a younger age also to this country?
JI: Yes
JS: Did your parents encourage you to help other people to come to this country to immigrate?
JI: Not really, no.
JS: Do you feel close to your original country or do you just feel...
JI: America is my country.
JS: When did you become a citizen?
JI: Well basically I was a citizen before I came over.
JS: How's that?
JI: Well my father was a citizen when he went back and then I was born so I was automatically a
citizen.
JS: You had dual citizenship?
JI: Yes
JS: You were a citizen of both America and.
JI: Well I was born in Italy but I had American citizenship.
JS: Why is that?
JI: Because my father was a citizen.
JS: I see okay so your father was really an American.
�JI: Yes.
JS: How about your mom?
JI: Her also.
JS: She's an American also?
JI: Yes.
JS: And then you were born in Italy?
JI: Yes.
JS: Why did they go to Italy?
JI: To take care of my grandfather then when he died they came back.
JS: So how long were they there?
JI: I don't know four or five years.
JS: Did they live in Rockford also before they went back to Italy your parents?
JI: I don't remember really.
JS: You don't know where they came from okay so you lived in the United States and Italy and
then back in the United States?
JI: Yes we lived in Pennsylvania and then we came to Rockford.
JS: I have one other question I just wondered how you felt about immigration in this country now
the immigrants that are coming in a d there's a big debate now about the legal immigrants on and
letting so many immigrants come into this country how do you feel about that?
JI: Well I don't believe they should have illegal immigrants but it's fine to have legal immigrants.
JS: Open doors?
JI: Yes.
JS: Is there anything else you'd like to talk about?
JI: No
�
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
John Ianni
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seegers
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
John F. Ianni
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
December 28, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
John Ianni was born in Italy. He and his family immigrated to the United States in 1927. He came to Rockford, Illinois in 1928.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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f19fb67011d9f21740c950781c866ea7
PDF Text
Text
Maxine Jensen
Interviewed 9/8/2007
By: Jean Seagers
Midway Village Museum
�Maxine Jensen
Jean Seagers: What is your name?
Maxine Jensen: My name is Maxine Ginazi Jensen.
JS: And are you married?
MJ: I am widowed, have been for 24 years.
JS: What was your husband's name?
MJ: My husband's name was Edward Carl Jensen.
JS: How many children do have?
MJ: We have four children, four girls, Anita, Linda, Kay, and Diana.
JS: Are they living here?
MJ: Yes the three are living near me; one is living in South Carolina.
JS: Growing up where did you grow up first of all?
MJ: I was born in Beloit, Wisconsin and moved to Roscoe Township when I was six months old
and we lived down Dearborn in South Beloit.
JS: Where did you go to school?
MJ: I went to school at Wheeler School for my first eight years then to South Beloit High School
for four years.
JS: And where did you work?
MJ: I've worked so many places.
JS: What was your first job?
MJ: My first job was at Kreske’s Five and Dime Store then I worked at JC Penny's in Beloit then I
worked at Fairbanks during the war. I worked at Litman's refrigeration during the war.
JS: What was your last job?
MJ: My last job was working with my husband. We had a machine shop I worked there for 10, 11
years in South Beloit in Roscoe Township and we had a grocery store in 46 to 57 just a
neighborhood grocery, Jensen's grocery. We were there 12 years.
JS: And you've been here in this area all your life?
MJ: I lived in this area all my life.
JS: Where did your parents come from?
MJ: My parents came from Arezzo, Italy and that is in the central part in the Tuscany area.
�JS: Did they meet here?
MJ: No they were childhood sweethearts I think from the time they were about 15. They're from
the same town in Italy.
JS: What did they do before they came?
MJ: My mother was domestic work that's what they did in those days. She lost her mother when
she was 12 and when she was 14 she’d go out to work and my dad was just a laborer and he
started working when he was 10 and he worked in a blacksmith shop to begin with, lost some of
his hearing and then went to Germany and worked labor and then he went into service in Italy
went to the war in Tripoli in Africa and then came home and then he heard they were going to call
up his regiment or whatever so he went to France and from France he came to America. He had
brothers here, two brothers and he and his sister came and came to Beloit.
JS: Where did they enter the United States?
MJ: At Ellis Island, he's got their names are on the roster at Ellis Island both of them.
JS: Was his bride-to-be your mother somewhat younger than he was?
MJ: No just a year. She was a year younger and he left her over there and he and his sister
came, well he came in 1914 and stayed with his sister until 1919, and then he called her or wrote
to her and said to come and marry him or he was going to find another wife so she came.
JS: Did he help her with the cost of coming?
MJ: I would imagine. I don't know that I know he met her in Rockford when she came in
Rockford.
JS: Why do you think they wanted to come here?
MJ: Oh of course to get jobs and work. At that time in 14 America was known as really booming
as far as industrial and so that's why they came and my mother just wanted to be a wife.
JS: Why do you think they came to this area?
MJ: Because his brothers were here.
JS: Had he ever been here before?
MJ: No neither one of them had ever been outside of other then my dad going to war had been
outside of Italy.
JS: He came with his sister?
MJ: Yes he came with a younger sister.
JS: How about her did she come alone?
MJ: She came with somebody from the same area that had family here and I'm not sure what his
name was.
JS: So they didn't go anywhere else first?
MJ: No they came here
�JS: And was anybody here to help them when they got here?
MJ: Oh yes they had to in those days. You couldn't come unless somebody signed for you that
they would take care of you if you needed care and so he had these two brothers. They were
Sam Ginazi and Vittorio Ginazi. They lived in Beloit.
JS: Were there other friends or was it just …
MJ: Well there were friends I'm sure from the area.
JS: Did they all settle in the same area?
MJ: Yes, yes a lot of them yes but there were a lot in Rockford; Rockford and Beloit were kind of
a commute place where that's where they went because they stayed in their own group you know
they couldn't speak so they stayed within themselves.
JS: So they lived in the Beloit area and the Rockford area?
MJ: In the Rockford area my dad drove a taxi between Beloit and Rockford.
JS: How did they find a place to live then?
MJ: They just bought nine times out of 10 they just bought a place.
JS: And they wanted to be by other Italians?
MJ: Yes.
JS: Did they have jobs when they got here?
MJ: No they had to look for jobs and my dad started with Fairbanks Morse and Company at that
time and he worked there 33 years.
JS: What type of work?
MJ: Just labor foundry work that's what they got just like the Mexican people now they get all
those hard labor jobs.
JS: You mentioned he drove a cab.
MJ: He drove a cab I don't know how long and I think it was his own private car. I don't think it
was a company.
JS: Did they both work outside the home?
MJ: My mother worked a little while. There was an overall factory in Beloit, Rosenblatt. It was
called Rosenblatt and she worked there but she got pregnant right away so then she didn't she
only worked a short time.
JS: How many children did she have?
MJ: She had four two boys and two girls.
JS: Did they speak any English your parents?
�MJ: No, no no, no not at all.
JS: Did anyone in the family?
MJ: Not in their family but they always had somebody in the town in their group that could, either
a child from an immigrant that would help them with whatever and some of them charged a fee
and some of them didn't.
JS: So they eventually learned to speak?
MJ: Yes kind of they never spoke well in fact I didn't speak English when I went to school until I
went to school.
JS: Everyone in your family just spoke Italian?
JS: We spoke Italian. We had moved from Beloit to South Beloit and out in the country and we
had no neighbors so all we had were our parents.
JS: They didn't want you to speak English necessarily?
MJ: Oh no, no that's not true. No my dad was for education. He insisted that we go to school
although he taught us how to read and write Italian also.
JS: Do you speak it now?
MJ: Oh sure I'm out of practice because I haven't spoken to anyone for so many years until I go
to Italy and speak or they call me or something. .My sister and I kind of jaw back and forth about it
but we don't carry on a conversation.
JS: How about your children do they speak?
MJ: They understand everything but they are ashamed to try and speak because they don't
pronounce the words well and they shouldn't. Now Linda my daughter, Linda she can speak if
she wants to in a pinch because she took some courses in school in the University of Wisconsin.
JS: Now you mentioned you were out in the country but did you associate with mainly Italian
people?
MJ: Yes for awhile until and we had some neighbors who were maybe a block or so away and my
mother would talk with them and of course people would come and you would learn and they had
a little house that they rented out and there would be in later years it was rented out and there
would always be English-speaking people there.
JS: Where did you go to church?
MJ: We were not churchgoers. My dad was not. He was an agnostic. He believed in a higher
power but he did not believe in organized religion but he was very honest.
JS: How about other organizations?
MJ: Mostly Italian [Alegamuta] Club and the Humanity Club. There was a prejudice in the Italian
people too the southern versus the northern and they kind of grew and had their own little clubs
and stuff.
JS: So they kind of separated themselves?
�MJ: They separated themselves not just like United States was you dealt with them but you didn't
associate with them.
JS: That was pretty common?
MJ: Pretty common I think at least I know it was in South Beloit.
JS: You say they didn't get along. Did they argue; did they ignore each other?
MJ: I don't want to tell you because I think a little prejudice goes in there.
JS: Were your parents active in politics or community actions?
MJ: No they had their ideas what they believed in and what they wanted but they didn't actually
get into the activities any the political.
JS: Do you think that they were avoiding doing that or just weren't interested?
MJ: Oh no they were interested. They read the papers and the radio when the radio when we got
a radio both of them were very, very - in fact I think my mother was more than my dad but he had
definite ideas.
JS: Did they vote?
MJ: Every time, as soon as they became citizens. My dad went in the service in the United
States. In those days you made your first papers and then if you went in the Army for service you
automatically got your second papers so he went in service and got his second citizenship
papers.
JS: How long was he in?
MJ: We’re not real sure but about a year.
JS: Where was he stationed?
MJ: In I think Atlanta, Georgia I've heard him.
JS: Do you remember him being gone?
MJ: No, t is was before my mother and he married.
JS: Okay when he was in this country by himself?
MJ: Yes he was in 1917 or 18.
JS: Did he talk much about that was in the service?
MJ: Yes but not very much. He talked about it and being down there being hot and eating
watermelon.
JS: So he was in the Italian Army in the United States Army is that correct?
MJ: No he was in the United States Army.
JS: I thought back in the other country?
�MJ: In the other country he was in the Italian Army.
JS: Did they ever get back to Italy?
MJ: Yes of course they had to go through the war without knowing what was happening to family
and stuff but they went back after 43 years. They went back for six months.
JS: All of you?
MJ: No just my mother and dad. In 1946 we bought a grocery store well we had never had any
money but my uncle helped and we bought this grocery store. We did really, really well and in
1946 I’m not sure of the date anyway after awhile we sent them to Italy. They stayed for six
months.
JS: Where did they stay?
MJ: With family, my mother's sister mostly but my dad had relatives too so he stayed with them
too.
JS: Tell me about their reaction to going back home.
MJ: They had a good time mostly with family the changes of course in those 43 years were had a
lot of changes. The people lived better after the war of course Americans helped rebuild and so
they saw that.
JS: Were there quite a few of their family living there?
MJ: At that time there were except of course the parents were gone but sisters and brothers
cousins were all.
JS: Do you think they were glad to get back?
MJ: Oh yes they went back to visit but they had no intention of staying.
JS: Did any family follow them back here?
MJ: No, no I can't think of anybody.
JS: So that was the one and only time though that they went back to Italy?
MJ: That was the only time.
JS: Did they encourage their children to help other family members economically that came to
this country?
MJ: No we never, they helped but it was like $10 at a time in an envelope to send just like at
Christmas time it was nothing financially. I think my dad did he was more to give to his family but
after the war actually I don't know what happened before after the war they did pretty well by
themselves.
JS: With the grocery store?
MJ: No we did well because after the children got older and helped but my dad did pretty good he
did pretty good anyway even though with the kind of job that he built a house in 1925, started to
build and then of course the depression came, the crash came in 29 and it was rough hard times
couldn't find a job. I remember he'd get up at four o'clock in the morning and walk way up to
�Fairbanks to be told that there was nothing so he'd walk all the way back in the winter. I
remember so cold and four children to support. He did everything to; he’d go out and work for
farmers. I remember one time he worked for these two brother farmers and they paid him with
corncobs for heat but they burned so fast they give good heat, hot heat but they burned so fast.
JS: So they didn't last long?
MJ: No and we had some rough times.
JS: How old were you then?
MJ: Well in 29 I was eight, seven, eight.
JS: So you remember those times?
MJ: I remember them very well, very well. We always had plenty to eat because my dad had a
big, big garden all the time and my mother canned everything and they raised chickens and they
raised rabbits and we always had seemed like we always had plenty to eat .We never had any
clothes it was made but my dad always had a nice outfit in case of a funeral so he could go. My
mother never had much in those days you know the man was the breadwinner and he got the
privileges and being Italian that's a little bit…
JS: What kind of food did you have it your house in an Italian home?
MJ: Soup mostly, lots of different kinds of soup. My mother made her own noodles and on
Sunday we had spaghetti or noodles, some kind of noodles and vegetables and lots of lots of
vegetables I remember.
JS: Did they bring a lot of their Italian cuisine too?
MJ: Oh yes my mother that's all my mother knew. I remember her trying to bake and she was not
very good. In her domestic work. When she was in Italy she was the main first course cook
because she worked for countesses and very, very wealthy people consulate to Norway; she
worked for them and so she could really cook and made wonderful, wonderful noodles and ravioli
and all of those...
JS: Desserts?
MJ: No desserts. She was not a desert cook. She could make vanilla pudding and that kind of
stuff but no cakes. She wasn't very good at it.
JS: Do you think when they came here your parents that they planned to stay here for the rest of
their life or was it just I'm going to do this for a while?
MJ: I don't ever remember them talking about ever going back to live. I never remember that.
JS: Do you feel that they missed their home country?
MJ: Oh they missed it, oh yes, oh yes. They missed their family. I don't know that they ever
missed the country because I remember my dad not ever saying it was wonderful because they
remembered when they were there until they went back to see their progress it wasn't good
memories you know things were rough. I don't think my dad was as poor as my mother being
that she lost her mother so young.
JS: What you think was the most disappointing part of moving here for your mother and your
dad?
�MJ: Not being able to find a good paying job that they had to do all the hard labor job. My dad
was a very smart person. I think he could've learned to do most anything.
JS: Did he take any classes?
MJ: No there were no opportunities to take classes like there is now. I remember him being so
happy when they built a vocational school in Beloit but he was at that time he never thought of
going back for himself.
JS: What do you think they thought about American culture?
MJ: We were always, America was always more liberal than my folks ever saw when they were in
Italy. They disapproved of the drinking. We had neighbors who over drank and I remember them
talking that they never approved of people abusing whatever it was, alcohol or anything. My dad
made wine every year and gave it away mostly because neither of them drank much. They drank
with their meals but they never drank in between. Maybe if they had a party they would have it
some but we had a lot of people come into our home. They were always welcome. My mother
was always a lot of fun and they played cards and my dad had at one time had built a bocce ball
alley in the backyard .We had people coming from all over the place.
JS: Do you think they were open to new ways when they got here?
MJ: Oh yes my mom was very progressive, very.
JS: Did they make some of their own traditions? Did they bring over their own traditions from
Italy?
MJ: In the beginning they brought their own you know whatever traditions they had but as we got
older and we formed our own like we never had a birthday party when we were kids but when our
children were born and we were married and had children then we would have birthday parties.
My mother and dad thought that was great.
JS: Why do you think they never had them for your children?
MJ: We didn't have money. We didn't have any money to do anything. I know my mom would
make ragdolls out of socks and things for us but we had I remember only having one doll when I
was a kid.
JS: So what happened on your birthday?
MJ: They were just remembered it was just teasing you and give you a spanking for your birthday
6, 7 spanks whatever it was and that's about it.
JS: But in Italy they did celebrate birthdays?
MJ: I don't know that they did. I don't know about that.
JS: Were there other customs or traditions that they brought over?
MJ: Music although my folks, my mother was a great opera buff. She loved to listen to opera. We
listened to it every Saturday morning. It would be on the radio and she’d think she could sing
every song.
JS: She had a nice voice?
�MJ: Nothing spectacular. My dad had a better singing voice and they sang their traditional songs,
story songs.
JS: They taught them to you?
MJ: Only through osmosis. They never sat down. My dad taught us to read and write Italian and
my dad was a reader. He had read all the Divine Comedy and all those good literature.
JS: How about superstitions?
MJ: No my dad did not believe in anything superstitious.
JS: Or your mother?
MJ: No.
JS: How about celebrations, Italian celebrations are there special days?
MJ: The only day I remember is May 1 that was Labor Day.
JS: Labor Day?
MJ: Yes, in Italy.
JS: And what did they do?
MJ: Just got together with the other families and not really anything much that I can remember I
don't know.
JS: Do you observe that day in your family?
MJ: No, no.
JS: Did your parents think it was important that you remember your roots?
MJ: Oh absolutely, absolutely. My mother especially, she always spoke of family and having to go
back to visit I know she always said someday you should go back to visit. My dad was more
detached.
JS: Did they leave a lot of family?
MJ: Yes my dad had nine brothers and sisters and my mother had three sisters; there were four
girls.
JS: Some came here and some did not?
MJ: My dad's family, my mother's family never came.
JS: When you were young did you have were you interested in finding out about all these
relatives?
MJ: Yes we had always had heard about them and knew everything from over there. In fact when
we went back to visit they were amazed that we knew so much about their history.
JS: So it was the histories too that you learned about then, the customs?
�MJ: The history mostly. The customs, we never only whatever my mother and dad had on their
own and I can't remember anything definite but…
JS: Say, when you were a teenager were you more interested in what was going on in America
than you were or what was going on in Italy?
MJ: Yes because we were taking history and stuff in school and you get interested in that but my
dad would tell us about Italy and of course he was against Mussolini and talked against them and
the fascists because they were so brutal in those days. I know my mother telling about her father
being beat up because he wouldn't go along with them and my dad I don't think his dad took part
in anything too much and they were older. I think my dad's dad was older and he died in 33 I
think. We never knew too much about him.
JS: I didn't ask you this before but what did his father do?
MJ: His father was I guess you would call him a peddler. He would peddle, he would have a mule
and a cart and he would go and peddle merchandise in the area. In fact my cousin is still doing
that but now he has a truck, more stuff.
JS: What kind of merchandise?
MJ: Oh it could be pots and pans and vegetables and whatever. People made sort of a living.
JS: Now what about your mother's?
MJ: My mother's dad bought and sold cattle but I don't know too much about what he did.
JS: Did you find that the older you got the more interest you had?
MJ: Yes much more. It was just with my mother we would talk a lot and she always insisted that
we should go and visit so after my daughter Linda grew up and Linda went back she was the first
one my daughter Linda and she went back and spent time with the families and then a few years
later 11 of us went and spent three weeks.
JS: When you were growing up were you proud that your parents were from Italy?
MJ: You didn't dare in those days that I can remember when we were younger you didn't know
the difference but when you got to be the war then you didn't dare say that you were Italian. We
also weren’t very proud because there was a lot of prejudice in those days. You didn't dare. I
was kind of a rebel and I didn't care. I'd speak Italian if I felt like it or if I met some of the oldtimers like downtown or something I spoke to them in Italian but a lot of the Italian children didn't
because of the prejudice.
JS: How were they treated?
MJ: They weren't, they weren't treated too good. We had an element that were always outside
the law would be at that time we called them bootleggers. They would make liquors and sell
them and it was prohibition at that time and they would sell that and it would be against the law of
course the Mafia was in…
JS: Even around here?
M: Oh yes South Beloit was quite notorious for Mafia doings.
JS: Were there a lot of your Italian not your family but Italian people that you knew that were
involved?
�MJ: Oh yes. We didn't know families we knew who they were because there was where that
prejudice that was separated from…
JS: How about when you were in school though like grade school did they did people?
MJ: I don't think, there were some but I felt I remember as kind of an outcast because there were
only three families that came from the area that my folks came from. The rest all came from the
southern area so I always felt kind of outside because of the prejudice even in my parents we
weren't more or less allowed to associate not because they said you can't it was just kind of a
built-in thing that you didn't want to be with them although my girlfriend was of a different from
southern Italy
JS: Now what about your four daughters are they interested in their culture?
MJ: Oh yes, oh yes and they've all gone back. We have all gone back to visit.
JS: Do you, did your parents and you keep in touch with people in Italy?
MJ: Oh yes we still do. Oh yes of course you have to realize that during that war period there was
no communication or even up until the war even a little while before the war you didn't
communicate.
JS: Did you have family that was affected by, were there any people killed in your family?
MJ: Well my one cousin, the son to one of my dad's brothers that was here he was born here
and then when they talked of the first world war then my uncle thought he would never be able to
get back to Italy so he went and took his family back to Italy so then the World War II they were
talking about it and so my aunt sent this boy back he was 12 at the time to get a better life in
America and so she had a sister here and she sent this boy back here to get an education and
the aunt died during that time before the boy was grown up in the uncle kind of raised him and he
went in service and he went to Japan in that conflict was killed there.
JS: Was your family in Italy your Italian relatives how were they affected by the war?
MJ: Oh it was right in the middle of the war lot of bombings and my grandfather a bomb hit his
house and he was elderly and so lost his mind over it and that's another big story if you want to
hear it. Okay he lost his mind and my aunt took care of him she was not married and she
strapped him to her wrist for two months to drag him back and forth as a front would come
through then she’d have to run for the hills and hide and she had to drag him along and it got so
bad that they had to put him in a rest home run by the Church in a little town that was way up in
the hills and she couldn't get to him. They got him there but she couldn't visit. Well he died while
the war was on. They couldn't have a funeral because of the war so they buried him in the crypt
of a church in that little town where they stored all their stuff down in their mattresses and stuff
they would hide. They had hidden stuff and so they put him down on a mattress down in his crypt
and then cemented over the floor and it's right in the middle of the Church and so then years later
when my younger cousin was 14 they were playing around and they heard about this in the
church and so they dug it up they took the mortar out and there was my grandfather perfect
condition and they brought him up and they had a funeral then and this was probably 20 years
later.
JS: So when you were growing up we’ll go back to that for a little bit here you said the fact that
they were Italian it didn't embarrass you did it the fact that they spoke a different language didn't
embarrass you?
MJ: You mean English and Italian, no.
�JS: Did they give you a hard time about things that you wanted to do that were maybe more
American than their traditions?
MJ: Oh sure well like I said I was kind of a rebel. I did what I wanted to do.
JS: Were you the oldest?
MJ: I was the oldest and I always had my own mind about what I wanted to do.
JS: What didn't they like that you would?
MJ: Well going away from home to play outside your neighborhood, outside your home and I
would forget to come home and be playing across the tracks with the kids over there and I don't
ever remember having any prejudice in my mind as far as who I played with I played with other
Italian children. I played with black children; it didn't make any difference as long as we were
playing. I loved to play baseball and so we would always have a baseball game.
JS: How about your parents did they not like it that you played with a certain?
MJ: No, no my folks were not other than this prejudice this because of the different cultures in
their own Italian no they never cared about that.
JS: How about when you got in high school did they have trouble kind of letting you go if you
were the oldest?
MJ: Oh yes we were not able to date or anything like that everything you did you had to sneak
because your parents although my mom was probably quite progressive. She wasn't because I
met my husband when I was 17 and they took him right in and they were very, very good to him.
JS: Did you do school activities like going to ball games?
MJ: Some, I met him at a football game but no we couldn't because we lived out in the country
and I tried and tried to be in plays but I could never quite finish because I had no way of getting
back and forth . We lived on the other highway and we had to come over here to South Beloit
High School and we just had no ways of getting there and it was dark in those days you didn't go
out after dark.
JS: Would they have approved though would it have been all right for you to be in plays?
MJ: I think so I don't think they understood all of it, why we should have to do that because I don't
think they had anything like that in Italy.
JS: Do you try to tell your children a lot about the culture that you grew up with?
MJ: They kind of know because my mother helped me raise them because we had a grocery
store at the time and I had these four little girls and they spent a lot of time with her so they know
the culture.
JS: Your parents were naturalized citizens?
MJ: Yes
JS: What was that like when they became citizens?
�MJ: Well I don't remember my dad becoming one and I'm not real sure about my mother whether
she became a citizen because she married a citizen or if she it seems to me she had to take
some kind of a test but I don’t remember that.
JS: So they didn't make a big deal?
MJ: No they were just, they were talking about you know this was after the depression and
Roosevelt got in and they were talking about Social Security and that's when they really got
interested because being that they didn't ever make any money and weren't able to save then
they felt that Social Security would help when they retired and it proved to be so. They had a
wonderful life after my dad retired and the few years that they lived my mother lived until she was
72 but in those 6,7 years from the time they were retired 10 years maybe they had a wonderful
life.
JS: Did she pass away before your father?
MJ: Oh yes, yes she had a stroke, severe stroke.
JS: How old was your father then?
MJ: My father was 85. My husband and I after she passed away and our girls were already grown
and gone we moved in to take care of him and he lived 12 years.
JS: Do you think that they had any regrets about coming to the United States?
MJ: Other than leaving family I don't think they had any regrets as far as the country. I can't ever
remember them ever saying that they regretted it. My mother was pretty family oriented, our own
family and wherever her children were that's where she wanted to be. She missed her sisters and
that.
JS: So you don't think they ever regretted coming here?
MJ: Probably during the Depression they probably might've had some regrets but they never
spoke of it that I can remember.
JS: How do you feel about the current debate in this country about immigrants legal or illegal?
MJ: I don't know I have mixed emotions. I wish they could do it easier. I think we need
immigrants but they should make it easier for them to be able to come without having to be illegal.
I don't have any anti-immigrant feelings. I really am for them but I wish they could do it legally
rather than illegal.
JS: You mentioned earlier that you had a brother that was in the war?
MS: Yes he was my oldest brother and his name was Bruno Nicholas Ganassi and he went into
the service when he was 17. My dad and mother had to sign for him and he went into the Navy
and took his training in Chicago and then the war broke out and he could speak and read and
write Italian so they got them into the Secret Service and he was an OSS. Office of Strategic
Services and they sent him to Italy and he was a radio man and he jumped behind enemy lines
and went through the war and he was at Anzio and went through the war and while he was there
he was behind the lines so he went over to see the relatives at that time.
JS: Was this at the time that Italy was liberated?
MJ: Yes well it was liberated soon after in 47 and I think he went over there in the latter part of 45
�JS: Had he met this these relatives before?
MJ: No, no he went, it’s very emotional because my brother is gone and all. He went back to the
little town where they came from which is called Porta Chino, little bridge and my grandfather had
died two weeks before he got there.
JS: So he connected with his relatives?
MJ: Yes he went to this house and my aunt came to the door and he said I am Bruno. I am
Teresa’s son and she passed out. But they had a good reunion and had a lot of laughs and of
course he told her about over here and how my mother how tough it was and he met a lot of the
relatives of his. His grandfather had just died but they couldn't get up there to where he was
buried that was another big story that little town where he was buried in front was right there and
somebody the partisans my brother worked with the partisans which were against Mussolini.
Somehow a couple of the German soldiers got killed and the Germans came in and took it out on
the whole town. They killed 129 men and boys and they were in church that Sunday morning and
they came in and killed them all in this church and there is a big you can see the wall is all where
the shots where the bullets hit and there's quite a story in that little town.
JS: And this is where your grandfather was buried?
MJ: Buried yes he didn't come from that town but that was where the church had the rest home.
JS: You have a lot of happy memories and a lot of sad memories?
MJ: A lot of sad when I think of my brother.
JS: Did he live to be quite old?
MJ: Well I don't remember exactly how old he was the date kind of leaves you know but he had
cancer of the lung. He smoked, cancer of the lung but he was quite a person he was he had
definite ideas and he was very, very strict.
JS: Did he live in the area also?
MJ: He lived in California. He had eight children, beautiful children so nice they're such nice, nice
children. He would be so proud of them.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Language
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English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
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Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seegers
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Maxine Jensen
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Maxine Jensen
Date
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September 8, 2007
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Maxine Jensen was born in Beloit, Wisconsin and has lived in the Rockford, Illinois region all of her life. Her father immigrated to the United States from Italy in 1914; her mother followed several years later.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
William Johnson
1/19/2008
Interviewed by Jean Seager
For Midway Village Museum
�Jean Seager: Can I have your name please?
William Johnson: My name is William Gustav Johnson.
JS: And where are you from? Originally?
WJ: I'm originally, I was born in [Isborna], Sweden and I came to Rockford when I was three
years old.
JS: Are you married?
WJ: Yes I am.
JS: Okay. And your wife is living?
WJ: Yes she is.
JS: Okay. Do you have children?
WJ: I have two daughters.
JS: Okay. What's your wife's name?
WJ: My wife's name is Lavetta Johnson.
JS: And your children?
WJ: My children’s, my two daughters’ names are Arduth and Lori.
JS: And you have grandchildren also?
WJ: I have two grandchildren.
JS: Where do you live?
WJ: I live at one of the duplexes at Wesley Willows.
JS: You were educated in this country?
WJ: I was educated in Rockford.
JS: What schools did you go to?
�WJ: I started in PA Peterson School. Then we went to. . . I ended up at Kishwaukee grade school
and then Lincoln junior high school and I was in the last class that graduated from Rockford
High School.
JS: And did you go on to college?
WJ: No, I didn't.
JS: Where did you work then?
WJ: I took an apprenticeship at Ingersoll Milling Machine Company in the pattern shop and I
would stay with the pattern trade until I retired.
JS: How many years was that?
WJ: Oh I, I spent about 40 years roughly, I think, in the pattern trade. I worked in Ingersoll's for
seven years, but two of those years of course I was in the service. And then I was in a job shop
Rupp Pattern Company and when I left there I started my own shop, Rock Valley Pattern. I was
there until I retired.
JS: And so what year was it when you came here?
WJ: 1924.
JS: And that was from Sweden?
WJ: Yes. And we got off, we got off the train at the depot there on 7th St and Fifth Avenue. I
had an aunt living here in Rockford on 8th Ave and 8th Ave Court and there was a Swedish
policeman at the depot when we got there, this is what I was told of course, and when he found
out where we were supposed to go he helped my dad with his luggage and stuff and helped him
carry it over to 8th Ave.
JS: So who came, you and your parents?
WJ: My parents, my brother was three years older than I, Leonard Johnson, and myself. So there
were the two, the four of us.
JS: Why did your parents decide to come here to the States?
WJ: There was a lot of different reasons for it that we were, that was talked about. But I think
the main reason was my dad wanted to buy land, he wanted, because land was scarce in Sweden.
He came from a large family, so he figured if he left it would be easier on the rest of them. And I
think his dream was to go to Texas and because he understood there was a lot of land in Texas
that you could get. But he never got out of Rockford. He finally ended up buying a farm in New
Milford and he farmed that after he retired from Barber Colman.
�JS: Why did you come to Rockford?
WJ: My aunt, my mother had an aunt here and that was the only relatives or the only connection
we had. So the idea was to come to Rockford and get a job and make some money and then
leave here and head to Texas but we never got out of it. The depression came and that took care
of a lot of plans.
JS: Did you come over on the boat?
WJ: We came over on a boat.
JS: Do you remember anything about that?
WJ: Not at three years old.
JS: Okay. What's your first recollection? Of Rockford?
WJ: Being at my aunt’s house. And of course when she died then I dad and family, we moved in
there when I was, oh I must've been 10 years old when we went in 8th Ave and that's when I
went to Kishwaukee. I spent fifth and sixth grades at Kishwaukee School and of course to
Lincoln and Rockford High School.
JS: When you came here, where did you live? When you were first. . .
WJ: With my aunt in a place on 8th Ave and then we move down on 9th St between, well just off
of Broadway.
JS: And then moved back into your aunt’s home after she died. . .
WJ: After she died.
JS: What did your father do in Sweden?
WJ: In Sweden he worked at the [Isborna] factory where they made, and he was in the
department where they made the bicycles so he was working, worked on the bicycles. Of course
at that time they made motorcycles and there was a big gun factory there too. But he didn't work
at either one of those departments that I know of. He also had a family store that was more like
a, oh it had everything in it, you know, from groceries to the meat market to whatever.
JS: Did your mother work?
WJ: She worked at the store.
JS: At the store.
WJ: She didn't work in this country.
�JS: And they sold all that to come to America?
WJ: No, the family took, it was all family. It wasn't just theirs. I don't remember how many there
were. Now in my dad's family but there were several brothers and sisters.
JS: Was there, did you ever hear that there was one particular reason why they made the decision
to come to the United States?
WJ: I think things were just rough in Sweden and they heard that the United States was the land
of opportunity.
JS: Had, had they, they'd never been to this country before?
WJ: No.
JS: Did it . . . You knew an aunt, your family knew an aunt that was here. Was there any other
friends or other. . .
WJ: There were other friends in the area from the same location in Sweden that my dad and
mother grew up in.
JS: Did they help you settle here?
WJ: And I think, but I'm not too familiar with that, with them, because I knew that my folks
knew them but I never did figure out why they knew them.
JS: Your aunt helped you get settled then pretty much?
WJ: Oh yes.
JS: So when they first arrived here, did, where did, your father went and got a job right away at
Barber Colman?
WJ: No, he worked at Mattison Machine Works first. And then of course he was laid off there
during the Depression and we went up to Lake. . . yeah, where did we go. . . up by Edgerton. He
went to work there at a factory in Edgerton. Fruhoff I think it was. And he would just work there
for a summer and when he came back to Rockford he started at Barber Colman and he stayed
there til he retired.
JS: The neighborhood you lived in, was it an ethnic neighborhood, was its mainly Swedish
people that lived there?
WJ: Well I think it was ethnic in the sense that I think it was both Swedish and Italian. I think I
had as many Italian friends as I did English or American friends.
�JS: And what area of town was it?
WJ: That's off of Kishwaukee Street, Kishwaukee School, 8th Ave.
JS: What was your life like at home? You mentioned that they spoke Swedish?
WJ: Well of course, yeah, my mother was more comfortable in the Swedish language as long as
we lived here really. So it was just as easy to speak Swedish of course as it was not. I never
learned how to write it or read it because I never went to school in it but I use it all the time and
speaking it.
JS: Was it a difficult thing for your parents to learn English?
WJ: I don't think it was too bad. My dad of course had to learn it right away and my mother used
it when she had to.
JS: She resisted?
WJ: Yeah.
JS: And you said she didn't work when she came to the United States.
WJ: No.
JS: So what was your home like? It was just two boys you had, two sons. . .
WJ: Two boys, yeah. It was just a normal, I think just like any, anybody else in the
neighborhood.
JS: Okay. And the neighborhood was Italian and . . .
WJ: . . . and Swedish and of course there was, one of my best friends was of course American, as
American as you get, he grew up, lived right across the street from me.
JS: Did they, either of your parents, go to school to learn to speak English or was just through. . .
WJ: I think my dad did. My mother never did.
JS: How did she learn?
WJ: Just from going out to church and neighborhood and whatever. And of course my brother
and I helped.
JS: Were they pretty fluent in English after awhile?
WJ: After while they were, yes.
�JS: Would you say English was your first language at home or was it Swedish?
WJ: At home I think, at first it was Swedish but it developed into English.
JS: And your mother became more comfortable with that?
WJ: She became comfortable with it.
JS: Did your father have a job waiting for him when he came here, that you know of?
WJ: No.
JS: No, so he just came. . .?
WJ: This is what always amazed me. How they had, they could pick up not knowing the
language and not knowing anything else but just having faith and . . . of course my dad could do
anything. And the rest is history I guess.
JS: How much school did your parents complete?
WJ: In Sweden? I have no idea.
JS: Were they, do you think they were educated beyond. . .
WJ: I don't think they were educated beyond high school.
JS: What was their attitude about school and education? Did they talk it up?
WJ: They talked it up. They thought it was real important. But with the Depression and
everything else you know going to, going to further education that was kind of . . . and then the
war came on, so we were in a kind of a . . . what should I say, I don't know. I was, I was real
happy to get my apprenticeship as a pattern maker cause I was handy with my hands. My dad of
course taught me that.
JS: How about your brother?
WJ: Well my brother, he graduated from correspondence school. Was one of the chief engineers
at Ingersoll.
JS: He had a college degree then?
WJ: Well through the . . .
JS: Through the school, at work . . .
�WJ: No, the school.
JS: Did your parents emphasize getting advanced learning?
WJ: They did, but of course the apprenticeship was the best, yeah that was the best deal.
Correspondence school was what my brother got.
JS: You went to public schools?
WJ: Oh yes.
JS: What church did you attend?
WJ: Well first we were in the Mission Covenant Church and then I started going with the fellow
that I told you that lived in the neighborhood to the Methodist Church. I met my wife there at
the Methodist Church. And we've been in the Methodist Church ever since.
JS: Which church do you attend?
WJ: Centennial United Methodist Church.
JS: You did not go to college then.
WJ: No.
JS: What was your first job?
WJ: What was my first job. Well I think the first job I had was getting furnaces out of freight
cars for one of the furnace companies here in town and that just lasted for a couple of months in
the summertime and then I went, right away I went to Ingersoll.
JS: How old were you when you did that?
WJ: 20.
JS: You didn't work before you were 20?
WJ: No not really. Of course I had an uncle that had a greenhouse in Chicago and I spent
summers working for him ever since I was 14 and then of course I went in and worked for him
on holidays, Easter and Christmas and things. But really that was the only paying job I had until
I started working at Ingersolls.
JS: And you also went into the service for a couple of years?
WJ: I was in the Navy for two years.
�JS: So what did you do for the, at the, for your uncle? At the nursery?
WJ: We delivered plants, and I transplanted plants and cleaned the place up. Just a little bit of
everything.
JS: So who were your friends when you were growing up?
WJ: Had a friend across the street like I mentioned and we were real close and just . . .
JS: Was he the Italian . . .
WJ: No he was just a regular American.
JS: Did you associate with all kinds of . . .
WJ: And then of course when I started going to the Methodist Church there were young peoples
there and there was four or five of us that always went to ball games and went out together.
JS: Was your wife Swedish also?
WJ: No.
JS: What nationality is she?
WJ: Well she was born in South Dakota and her parents were English. So she was about as
American as you can get I think.
JS: Were the people that you hung around with, were they mostly Swedish?
WJ: No. I think when, when we came here, in fact my dad discouraged us to get involved in
anything Swedish. We came over here to become Americans and we were supposed to get rid of
our Swedish. So I spent the first 40 years of my life getting rid of my Swedish history and
interest, and spending the next 40 trying to get them back.
JS: So you didn't, you didn’t, your father discourage you from hanging on...
WJ: Hanging on, or joining any Swedish things. Actually the closest Swedish thing we went to
was the Mission Church and at that time there was quite a bit of Swedish involved in that.
JS: Was there ever any fighting with any other ethnic groups or disagreements with . . .
WJ: Well not necessarily with, fighting with ethnic groups but that that was one way I think we
just got acquainted when we were going to grade school is to have a scrap with this one or that
one and become real good friends afterward.
JS: But there was no, Italians against the . . .
�WJ: Not really. I think probably if there was any, discrimination I guess you could call it, if there
was any discrimination I think it would be, looking back at it now, that some of the teachers
objected to having some of us Swedish . . . so many of us. Turner School is the one I spent some
time at. And I think a couple of those teachers resented the fact that there was so many Swedes in
the school. Thinking back at it now I feel that way, I didn't realize it at the time.
JS: Why would they object?
WJ: I don't know.
JS: What did they do? What did the teachers do?
WJ: Well I think they just spent more time or took more interest in the ones that weren't
Swedish.
JS: How did you meet your friends?
WJ: Just through school and church.
JS: Neighborhood?
WJ: Neighborhood.
JS: How do you think your parents accepted the American culture?
WJ: They pursued it. They figured once they got here they were going to become American.
And they . . .
JS: What did they do?
WJ: Well I think they avoided anything that would, should I say hamper them learning or
becoming American.
JS: You mentioned your name was changed.
WJ: That was changed in the school.
JS: When you came to this country how was your name spelled?
WJ: J o n s s o n...
JS: Pronounced?
WJ: Yoon-sun.
�JS: Why do you think it was changed when you came here?
WJ: Well they, the way I understood it is it was changed because it would be hard for people to
pronounce it and to find it in a telephone directory or then directories and then because you’d
have to pronounce it Johnson and then I would look for it the way it's, American spelling of it.
That was my understanding of it when I questioned it.
JS: Were you upset about that?
WJ: Not really.
JS: About your brother?
WJ: No. Never mentioned it.
JS: How but your parents?
WJ: They just accepted it as part of becoming American.
JS: Do you remember when it happened with the teacher said?
WJ: Not the faintest. I didn't realize it until I was in high school I think. That our names were
different. It just never occurred to me. Spelled different.
JS: But was okay with you then, by then . . .
WJ: Yep.
JS: Were your parents open to new ways of doing things, other than to break from the traditional
way that they used to . . .
WJ: I think that they were, yes. When they came here they came with the idea that they were
going to be as Americanized as they possibly could be.
JS: Did they keep any of the traditions?
WJ: Oh we did you know on Christmas and holidays, we had the food . . .
JS: What kind of food?
WJ: Well, oh for one thing we had the rice pudding, always had the rice pudding in Swedish.
Regular, oh I don't know what all exactly, but it was just the Swedish smorgasbord. Whatever
you do have, the cheeses and the herring and the siltas and whatever else that was available. Of
course it's been a long time now since I've been involved in any of that but. . .
�JS: You mentioned Christmas. Was Christmas celebrated differently at your home than may be
other homes?
WJ: Well I think it was about the same. I would say it was about the same.
JS: Was there a tradition in . . .
WJ: Well the only thing is probably we celebrated our Christmas, Christmas Eve and probably a
lot of the people would spend it Christmas day instead of Christmas Eve. I know that gave us,
when I got married, my wife's family always meant Christmas for Christmas Day and my family
always celebrated it for Christmas Eve so we had no conflict there, so we could take care of both
sides of the family.
JS: So they were open to new ways. What did they think about the traditions here? They were a
little different.
WJ: Well I think they really look forward to becoming part of the American . . .
JS: What about superstitions? Were there any superstitions that they brought . . .
WJ: Not that I can recall.
JS: Did you ever disagree with your parents about how to do things in this country, like what to
wear?
WJ: Not really I don't think.
JS: Or music. . .
WJ: We were kind of, we just went with the flow.
JS: So they didn’t have, there was no conflict as far as the old way and the new way?
WJ: Not really. My, when I decided to get married I was 21 years old and when I told my
mother that I had planned on getting married, because I had been going with Lavetta for quite
awhile, she asked my brother if he thought was a good idea being the youngest, still excepting
the fact that I was old enough to get married. 21. So she asked my brother if he thought it would
be a good idea you know, that I decided to get married. So my understanding, this is what my
mother told me. Is my brother told my mother, “Ma,” he says, “Don't you get involved in that,
he said. You've been worried about him for 21 years it's time somebody else worries about him.”
JS: And she accepted your wife . . .
WJ: I think so. We've been married for 65 years now. So I think it's a pretty solid . . .
JS: But did your mother accept her?
�WJ: Oh yeah. They thought, I think they probably thought more about it, of her than she did me
at the end there.
JS: For you ever embarrassed that your parents were different from other parents?
WJ: Not really because most of the people that I knew as I was growing up were in the same boat
really. I mean we were, they weren't necessarily Swedish but they were Italian or whatever else.
JS: New to the country.
WJ: New to the country or maybe a second-generation to the country.
JS: Did anybody ever pick on you for being different.
WJ: I don't know if they picked on me for being different but we all, I've always been big so
there was very few people that picked on me.
JS: Can you think of any specific Swedish celebrations may be that your parents observed in the
home country that they brought over here with them?
WJ: I don't know if it was my parents so much but Rockford of course had the group, and we did
participate in the Midsommer festival as a rule. That was about the big, the big point. And then
of course Christmas the churches had the early morning Christmas service at six o'clock in the
morning. What they call Julotta. And we tried to get to that every Christmas.
JS: You mentioned that as you got older you became more interested in the Swedish culture.
Why did you . . . when did that happen?
WJ: After I went over and visited Sweden and visited some of my cousins over there and then I
realized that there was people over there that I should be more involved with and, and in fact
right now one of my second cousins is over here in the United States. They’re 30 years old and
they've got a six-month-old baby with them so we've had some good times with them and we
wouldn't of had that if I hadn't made those couple of trips over.
JS: How many times have you been over?
WJ: I've been over there three times and the last time was seven years ago when I went over for
Christmas. I was there for two weeks over . . .
JS: Did your wife go also?
WJ Oh yes. . . .over Christmas. And the people over there speak English better than I do so we
have no trouble with the language.
JS: What impressed you about Sweden? Where you lived in Sweden. . .
�WJ: Oh I don't know if I was impressed with anything. It’s pretty much the same as it is here I
think. I think probably their taxes are higher. But nobody seemed to complain about it.
JS: When you were younger, or when you were young, did you have a desire to go to Sweden to
see where your roots were?
WJ: Not until I was, well let's just say, until after, after I was 30 anyway. Before that I just
never. . . and I never had any connection with anybody over there.
JS: And your parents didn't . . .
WJ: My parents did.
JS: But did they encourage, did they encourage you at all to go over to Sweden?
WJ: Not really. I think they were more concerned about us becoming Americans than they were
about making any ties with Sweden. Which I don't think was, which I regret but I think this is
what the whole deal was. Because my dad of course corresponded with his brothers and sisters
over there. Of course all my relations are over there. The only relation I have here is my
brother's children now because my brother passed away seven years ago.
JS: Did his, both his parents were there . . . your father's parents never left Sweden?
WJ: My father's parents, no, they never left Sweden.
JS: Did they visit?
WJ: Never.
JS: Did he go back to visit them?
WJ: My dad, no.
JS: So when he came here he never saw them again?
WJ: Never, well his one sister came to Chicago and they were here for maybe, maybe a year or
two. I don't remember because it was before 1929. And of course when things got bad, his sister
and her husband went back to Sweden. First time I went back to Sweden she was the only one I
had any contact with until I got there and found I had other cousins and relatives there.
JS: And that's when you decided you wanted to know more about . . .
WJ: That's right. That created an interest.
JS: How did you go about doing that? Did they have records, a lot of records the . . .
�WJ: Well, my, I had another cousin over there, she's dead now, that knew that I was over to visit
my aunt and she got in contact with me. And then another of the cousins found out that we were
around and he and his wife now are the ones that have been coming back and forth to Rockford
about once every five years. He's real active in the Salvation Army in their music program and
it's his son now and daughter-in-law who are here right now that we’re visiting with. And I think
that family is the one that has kept us the closest in Sweden and of course my other cousin that,
who died, her children I still correspond with.
JS: What, if you could think of, what drew you to, what did you find that all of a sudden it was
important to do this? Was there any particular. . .
WJ: No, I just, I just was... I just liked to know who they all were and we got along so well when
I went over there that we just kept, we've kept it up.
JS: How about your children? Are they interested in doing that?
WJ: My youngest daughter has been over to Sweden a couple of times. My oldest daughter's
been there once and we had a big family reunion just last week because of this cousin being over
here at my brothers boys, that would be my nephew’s home. So the people here now are
connected.
JS: Do they, do your daughters keep up with the traditions of Sweden?
WJ: Well, some.
JS: Are they interested. . .
WJ: . . . as much. They are interested in and of course we have a lot of Swedish things around.
We have the glassware and the different the [dalahäst] and some of these other things that all of
the family has. And we have a, all of the people in this country now, my grandchildren, my
daughter, and my brother's family all have pictures of the old homestead in [Isborna] where I
was, came from originally. And I think the interesting part of it is, that's gone now of course,
there's something else there, but the other relative-- Kurt Dahlquist is the name of the fellow, that
comes to this country and it's his son is here now. Him and his wife are real interested in keeping
up our connection because he has friends here in Rockford too because of his connection with
the Salvation Army. So that is a big connection there that we try to keep.
JS: Do you belong to any Swedish groups here?
WJ: I have belonged, I still do, I belong to the Swedish Historical Society, I was president of the
Swedish Culture Society for about 10 years, which is disbanded now because people who have
belonged to it have just gotten older. . . and then I, since I went to Sweden that first time I joined
the [Vasa] Club too, especially for their herring breakfasts and some of the other activities that
they have.
�JS: Do you think the younger people now from Sweden have lost interest in doing that, being in
these groups?
WJ: I don't think so. I think, I think the world is getting smaller all the time and I think that if
there is any connection, I think everybody's concerned to keep them up. That's what I, I mean
kind of . . .
JS: Do your children belong to any of those groups?
WJ: Really, no. I don't, but. . . of course, no they don't belong.
JS: When you were involved with the Swedish groups, did you have programs, did you try to
continue like the food from Sweden, and all those kind of things?
WJ: We did.
JS: You didn't tell me, what kind of food you had?
WJ: Well. . .
JS: Is that [Lefse] country?
WJ: Yeah that too. But really I don't know what, it's not much different I guess than any food
that we have here. We have meatballs of course you know and. . .
JS: Herring for breakfast?
WJ: Oh yeah, herring and all kinds of herring and fish, you know canned fish and stuff. And of
course your hard-boiled eggs and things. But you have them here too so it's not that much. . .
JS: Desserts?
WJ: Desserts. . . well of course if you have lingonberries that's the big thing and of course the
Swedish pancakes are the must. The big thing. I think the Swedish pancakes are more popular
in this country than they are in Sweden.
JS: Stockholm Inn?
WJ: Yep. Stockholm Inn, you bet.
JS: When did your parents become citizens?
WJ: My dad became, my dad definitely became a citizen before I turned 16, I think it was.
Because I became a citizen through his becoming a citizen, nationalization.
JS: And your mother also. . .
�WJ: Yes, at that time.
JS: When you were about 16. . .
WJ: Oh I don't remember, 14, 15, somewhere in there.
JS: Did they, was that something to be celebrated? Were they pleased about that?
WJ: Oh yes, they were, definitely.
JS: Do you remember that day?
WJ: No, I don't remember that day. But I remember, my dad never missed a time to vote and I
don't think I've ever missed a voting time neither.
JS: That was important to them then.
WJ: That was important. They weren’t into politics at all but. . .
JS: Were they in, no, you said they didn't belong to any groups. . .
WJ: No.
JS: Did they keep in touch with their family or friends though in Sweden?
WJ: My dad did. And of course my mother's only relatives came to this country. That's the
cousin, that's the relative I had in Chicago. So that was the only connection that she had with
relatives, that I know of anyway.
JS: How do you keep in touch with them?
WJ: Telephone a couple of times a year. And of course sometimes with Kurt and his family
making trips over here we always get together with him.
JS: Letters. Right?
WJ: Some letters. But it’s most, it's easier and it's almost cheaper to make a phone call and it's
nicer to hear them and visit with them than it is to write something down on paper.
JS: Are there, are there people coming, family members coming even lately, immigrating here?
WJ: Not immigrating, no. There hasn't been any immigration here.
JS: Would you ever consider moving back there?
�WJ: No. No way. It's beautiful country but I think if I have any regrets I have a regret that I
never really talked to my dad and thanking him for making the move, having the intestinal
fortitude to make the move, not having to know, not knowing that language, not having any
connection here except my mother's aunt and not knowing the language. It just amaze, with two
little children, it amazes me that they could do something like that. And I never really talked to
him about it. I guess we just accepted it.
JS: Do you feel that he cheated you out of knowing about these things?
WJ: No, I think if I would choose one or the other I'm glad he did what he did when he did it.
JS: Did you tell your own children about, did they know their grandparents?
WJ: Oh yes.
JS: Did you tell them about their culture?
WJ: Well I think it was, not so much, I mean we had the smorgasbord and things you know at
Christmastime and but that was about the only thing that we did as a family with the culture.
JS: Okay this is the last question. How do you feel about the current debate that's going on in
this country about immigration? Whether it be illegal or legal?
WJ: Well I think if it's illegal it's against the law. There's no question about that. But in a way I
feel that some of these people that are coming over here are coming over here for the same
reasons that people went through Ellis Island, they knew that this, for their own families and not
necessarily for themselves, but for their children and maybe their grandchildren they would have
a better opportunity in this country than they were in wherever they came from. And really you
can't fault somebody for wanting to do that although I think it should be done legally.
JS: Okay. Is there anything else you want to add? That we haven't talked about?
WJ: I guess not.
�
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seegers
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
William Johnson
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
William Johnson
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
January 19, 2008
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
William Johnson was born in Sweden and immigrated to the United States and to Rockford, Illinois in 1924 with his parents and brother.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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57030a0689982b68c11ad9cc748e2b7d
PDF Text
Text
Erwin Konrad
Interviewed August 22, 2007
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Holli Connell: Okay your first and last name please.
Erwin Konrad: My first name is Erwin Conrad.
HC: Okay and what year were you born in?
EK: I was born in Stettin, East Germany which is now Polish or I should say belongs to Poland.
And we fled from East Germany in 1945 to West Germany and my dad he was in the Army and
then he was captured in the eastern part and he was in a Russian prison camp for six months.
HC: Okay, but we will start from the beginning that was just a little test to make sure I got you
okay.
HC: Okay, could you start by stating your first and last name please.
EK: Okay my first and last name is Erwin Konrad. Okay. I was born in Stettin, East Germany
October 8, 1940.
HC: What was your life like when you lived in Germany?
EK: Are you talking about when I grew up in Germany?
HC: Yes.
EK: The early part or the later part? Well I was five years old when the war ended so I don't
remember hardly any of that. And I think I've mentally blocked it out because there were terrible
things while we were fleeing from East Germany that my mind just doesn't want to recall or I
blocked it out or whatever.
HC: What about later then after the war?
EK: After the war? Well we fled to West Germany and my dad was in a Russian prison camp
and my sisters and my brother, he led the wagon to West Germany, a horse and wagon like you
see in the old West. And we fled to West Germany where my mom's sister was living. So then
when my dad came to East Germany and asked where the family was the people told them that
we had fled to West Germany. So then he put two and two together and figured we were at my
mom's sister and so he met up with after.
HC: How many brothers and sisters do you have again?
EK: I have five sisters and one brother. One of my sisters is deceased.
HC: When did you come to the United States?
EK: I came to the United States February 7, 1957.
�HC: And how old were you then?
EK: I was 16 years old.
HC: Why did you decide to come to the United States?
EK: Well we had relatives in South America and Brazil, and I had an uncle here in Illinois. By
Harvard Illinois. And they had a farm there. And my cousin who was a registered nurse came to
Germany in 1953. She wanted to look up her dad's relatives which is the Konrad family and she
talked my brother into coming to the United States and he was a cabinetmaker and I went into
cabinetmaking at age 14 1/2. And then my brother brought me over here.
HC: And how did you travel to get to the United States?
EK: I came over here on a big ship the MS Berlin. Out of Bremenhaffen(sp?), Germany. My
brother picked me up in New York.
HC: So your brother was already here in the United States then?
EK: He came here in 1954 and I came in 1957.
HC: What was the process for you to come to the United States?
EK: Well first of all you have to have a sponsor you know so my brother worked in a cabinet
shop and he was a foreman, and he worked for a fellow who sponsored me. And it took about
nine months for all of the paperwork to go through and then I had to go to the consulate in
Frankfurt, Germany and once I was checked out and approved I got the clearance to come over
to the United States.
H: And that then allowed you to go and get a ticket to travel then? Like with clearance papers
or did they say here’s now how you are going to travel?
EK: No my brother paid for the ticket and then as long as I had the papers that I could go the
U.S. then it was okay.
HC: So you came over here and you have to correct me again in 1957?
EG: Mhhmm. (indicates yes)
HC: And where was the first place you stepped out onto, was it New York?
EK: New York, yeah. Then my brother took me to the Empire State building and me having
lived up in the country I was hardly ever in a big city when I was a kid and so this was a big step
and a big trip and New York was so impressive you got to go up in the Empire State building and
see the whole city you know it was just awesome.
�HC: Did you stay the night there in New York and the travel the next day?
EK: Let's see now, I believe we went there in the morning, my brother picked me up in the
morning and then we went to the Empire State building so I got to see the city of New York from
way up there and a then we went to the airport and flew to Chicago from New York.
HC: And then your final destination was it Harvard?
EK: No, my brother lived here in Rockford so we came to Chicago and then we flew in a
smaller airplane from Chicago to Rockford and then a friend of my brother's picked us up at the
Rockford Airport. So I have been in Rockford ever since.
HC: Really? Yes. Wow! Okay, well that's interesting.
EK: When you came to Rockford what was your first job?
EK: Well my brother was a foreman in a cabinet shop and since I had two years experience in
cabinetmaking experience in Germany I started working at Highland Lumber and Fuel on
Charles Street, they are no longer in business. That's where I started working. And at that time
it was a matter of me either going back to school which would've been high school not knowing
the language so I would have had to go to school and try to learn stuff or get a job. So Highland
Lumber and Fuel had to get a special permit for me to work in a cabinet shop at age 16.
HC: Really?
EK: Oh yeah.
HC: Because of the labor laws?
EK: Exactly.
HC: Now in Germany what was your educational background before you came over?
EK: I had eight years of public school and after that you either go on to high school for people
that want to be educated or get government jobs like working for the railroad system or the post
office or office workers or you take up a trade. So I took up my trade as a cabinetmaker at age
14 1/2. So I've heard since then that they go to school until they are 16 which I think is a lot
better. Because you're just a kid going out and trying to get a job in the world at age 14 1/2.
HC: So when you came here you felt like I have two years under my belt being a cabinetmaker
so you were able to go right into that kind of job? But the language was a barrier?
EK: Oh yes.
HC: But your brother you could communicate with?
�EK: Right. And I went to night school for three years learning English. The Board of
Education and the YWCA, I started out at the YWCA and they stopped teaching English for
foreigners and the Board of Education had classes so I went there.
HC: When you were at work did the language barrier either work for you or work against you?
Were you only able to communicate with your brother or was there anybody else that you could
communicate with including your native language?
EK: We had a Swedish fellow there, he was from Sweden and we had my sponsor there who was
American and then my brother was foreman and I worked there so I had to slowly start picking
up the language because we had one American and one Swede well they were not talking
German so I had to learn the language and then I took like I said night classes for English for
three years.
HC: When you came here to Rockford where did you stay?
EK: I lived with my brother until he got married.
HC: Where was that what neighborhood did you live in?
EK: Let's see that is near Broadway and 12th Ave I believe.
EK: Was there anybody else in your neighborhood that you either knew from your country or
even the town you lived in Germany?
EK: No.
HC: Did you know anybody in town beside your brother who was maybe German or maybe from
your home?
EK: My brother had a couple of friends that were from Germany actually they both were from
East Germany. And so he would visit them and I would go a long. So I still talked quite a bit of
German the first few years.
HC: Once you sort of adapted and have been through your classes and maybe even your
environment of learning English, did you communicate with your brother in German even
though you could speak in English?
HC: Yes, I always kept talking German with my brother, you know. And he is still amazed to
this day that I can still speak German pretty good, you know because he more or less dropped it
which I couldn’t understand. But he did and I told him I was not going to do that. So I speak
with my sisters once in a while. You know every three or four weeks I talk with them on the
phone.
HC: Do you have any other family members that live in the United States?
�EK: Well except for my cousin that’s still living, she lives a half a block from my house. ]
HC: Everyone else still lives in Germany?
EK: Yeah, I have four sisters over there and lots of nieces and nephews.
HC: When you came here and started working at as a cabinetmaker at age 16 did you ever find
or did you have any issues with saying I am German? Were you comfortable with it or were you
not comfortable with it.
EK: You always try to leave a good image because of the bad past, you know, because people
say, “Oh yeah he’s German”, you know, so you always try to, you know, be polite. So that's all
that I can say to that.
EK: Once you got here, when did you become a citizen?
EK: I became a citizen, my wife and I got married on February 12, 1966, and I became a citizen
in November of 1966.
HC: How did you meet your wife?
EK: Skiing.
HC: In Illinois?
EK: No, we went on a bus trip up to Wisconsin. We met on the bus.
H: Were you both from Rockford?
EK: She lived in Rockford. Of course, she was born and educated in Wisconsin. She lived in
Rockford, so.
EK: No, when he got married.
HC: And then did, did you move to another neighborhood?
EG: Yes, I've always lived on the east side.
HC: And then, when did you first learn to drive?
EK: Well, I took my drivers license, I think when I was 17, it took me three times to pass it. But
I finally did, I think it was the language barrier problem.
HC: So you were still working on that, it was about a year?
�EK: Well, see, they were going to change the law, at one time there was rumor it was going to be
18 and so my brother and his friend said to me, “you better take your license this year yet and so
I was working on it but I think it took me a few months till I finally passed it the third time.
HC: What was your first car?
EK: I had a small Volkswagen beetle.
HC: What color?
EK: Blue.
HC: Those are nice. My husband actually had a van and a [inaudible].
HC: How different was climate here compared to where you grew up?
EK: It's a lot warmer here in the United States. See Frankfurt only gets to be 72, 75, if they have
an extreme hot day it might get to be 88, 90, but they don’t have air conditioning over there so
that is an extremely hot day for them. So for older people it's very hard because no airconditioning. But you don't get those kind of hot days very often, but it can happen. Now my
sister told me that for the past few years they sometimes have had hot days several days in a row
close to 90 degrees and she says all the fans are bought up in the stores and people just ain't used
to that, you know, they don't have air conditioning.
HC: So here where we have a lot more warmer days it’s not typically warmer for them at all?
EK: Right. And over there you get a lot of fog and rain and rainy days, too, you know and stuff.
It's not as clear weather as it is here for the most part, you know, we get real nice hot and warm
weather. You might get a few nice days and then it could get rainy and damp and cool, foggy.
But they say it's starting to get a little bit more warm. I don't know if this is happening through
the global warming or not. Even in the wintertime when it gets extremely cold here, you get a
cold but not to that extreme you know.
HC: Before you came here at 16, what was your life like there, like how was your life, living
with your family in your environment and your trade, what was your life like?
EK: When I was still living over there? Well, I would say I had a very fun kind of youth because
played soccer in the summer and the ski hill was about a hundred, 150 yards from my parent’s
house so in the wintertime I was always on the ski slope so I had a lot of fun growing up. And I
wasn't that interested in school for which I had to pay a price later on because I ended up going
to night school trying to catch up and to learn a lot of things and I would say that I have learned
and developed by doing this a lot more than if I would have just stuck in one trade and not done
this but what I did went to the United States.
HC: What did you think of the United States before you came over here?
�EK: I was always fascinated by it, I had this wild imagination about Indians, you know. So
when I came to the Rockford I asked my brother where are the Indians here. You know, I saw
cowboy movies and Indian movies and stuff and I had this way out the imagination being just 16
years old that there were still sections where the Wild West was and all the Indians and all this
kind of stuff.
HC: That's funny. So how did your perception of American change when you got here?
EK: I like the freedom in the United States and I also like the opportunities that are given to you.
You can go to night school and better yourself if you want to do all this, you know. The
opportunities are there. You can go out there and do it and I think the freedom of this kind of
stuff to develop yourself and learn what you want to learn, you know. Over there, while I was in
the cabinet making trade I probably would have either stayed in there and I would have been
about the way you go down to life, and here I have a lot of different kind of opportunities,
including when traveling and stuff and I saw a lot of different things of the world and I got to go
back and forth between Germany and the US and, so I got a lot of opportunities in the United
States.
HC: That was going to be my next question, have you gone back to your native home and what
was it like?
EK: I went back 13 times. I would go every three years as long as my folks were still living.
Once they passed on then it wasn't quite so important, even so I am very close to my sisters, but
it wasn't as important to me as when my parents were still living.
HC: When you got a visa to come here what kind of visa was it? Was it a student visa?
EK: No, it was immigration papers is what it is. What they were. No it was only a little green
card I had to report to Washington once a year where I was living.
HC: Really, so you had to report every year until you became a citizen?
EG: That's why I don't understand how all this stuff got so liberal out there; they had a lot
stricter rules back in those days. Every January you had to fill out a card and you got it at the
post office where you lived and you had to fill it out blah, blah, blah, send it in to Washington so
they could keep track of every foreigner that was in this country, now they are just walking in
here and they can do everything and they have got such have chaos there they don’t know even
how to handle it anymore, so somewhere along the line something got way out of whack here. I
even tell that to other foreigners, that's just the way I feel about it. You know they come in here
and they want all their rights and they want and march around and all that. Years ago if you did
not have papers you just did not come into the United States. That's the way the law was, you
know.
HC: I do have to read up on the law now; ha it changed? That’s a big question mark I have, has
the law changed?
�EK: I would say that the law has changed because people are coming in here illegal and hiding
and they still get jobs, no one seems to be getting on them, you would think that immigration
would be getting on them and say hey, you don't belong here you get deported, you know. Back
in those days the US let only so many people in from Europe, so many from Sweden, that's a
quota, that's right, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, whatever. Asia has the
smallest percentage I remember that when I came here back in the 50s and 60s. That's what they
talked about; Asia was a small percentage of the part that could immigrate to the United States.
Well, Europeans probably had the most percentage of being able to come into the US. But, I
think it's changed quite a bit. Now Washington doesn't even know how to handle this stuff
anymore. So far out of control. You had to have a job and a sponsor. Well they would ask you
like they asked me in Frankfurt what would you do if you got laid off and my brother said if they
ask you that question just tell them that you will wash dishes. They had to know that you were
going to take care of yourself and that you are willing to work. Basically what it boils down to.
HC: Well, your sponsor is liable for you, right?
EG: Well he was supposed to be but I was living with my brother so it was just a formality for
him to sign the papers, that's what that was all about.
HC: What was of that process of citizenship like? Why did you decide to do it and what did you
do?
EK: Bonnie and I got married in 1966; see back in those days even foreigners had to serve in the
armed forces, that's another part of my life that I have to get into here. So when you're in the
Army you had to write down the foreign registration number that they had in DC because you
are not a citizen, okay. So the number I had from Washington is the number I put in when I
applied to the armed forces and they would've either drafted me or I had to volunteer to serve in
the reserves, which I did for six years. So I get my Army duty out of the way and I switch from
cabinet making over to tool and die, so I wanted to pick up a new trade and also take care of my
obligation to serve in the United States. So I was six years in the Army reserve.
HC: Still when you joined them is that when you became a citizen?
EK: So I put my immigration number in there when I applied to be in the reserves or you had to
be a citizen. So when you apply for citizenship it gets very easy because you or to get some duty
for serving this country, so when I Bonnie and I got married, I thought it was best to become a
citizen. So nine months later I decided to take my citizenship.
HC: So did you have to take a test?
EK: Well I had to go down to the courthouse and I had to have two witnesses and they had to
testify about my character and then a lawyer from US immigration asked me a bunch of
questions and then I had to write one sentence, they wanted to see if I could write, and then I was
approved.
HC: Was that a diploma that you get your high school diploma?
�EK: Yes it's a GED, that's what I took the Constitution test. Because I was in the Army and so I
already knew a lot of stuff you're supposed to know about the flag and the different stuff and I
passed the test first time. I took the test and the teacher says to me I can't believe this. He said
students going to high school can't hardly pass this test, he says and you've passed it the first
time. I don't know, I had 21 out of 24 or something like that.
HC: So now when you took classes you said you get your GED? Did you do that right away he
or how old were you?
EK: 50 when I took my GED. But you see I went to tool and die school for four years so I did a
lot of things from my 20s all the way to my 30s.
HC: So you got here when you were 16 you became a citizen 10 years later you were 26 you had
joined the reserves as well, were you already in the reserves or did you join the reserves when
you got married?
EK: I went into the reserves in 1964, it was October 1963 and I got out in 1969.
HC: And then you were in tool and die?
EK: I was in tool and die from 64 to 68/69.
HC: Once you were married and you are out of the reserves you said you worked in tool in die?
EK: I was seven years in cabinet making and I've been 45 years in tool and die.
HC: Do you work for a company locally?
EK: Yeah, I'm still working.
HC: Where do you work?
EK: At Rockford Tool Craft.
HC: What kind of stuff do you do there?
EK: We build the dies in the stamping department or the stamp out parts and I'm in the die repair
shop, so I help maintain them, repair dies. I used to work at a stamping place to put in the part
and then jump back before the stamp came down it was a summer job. Yeah, a lot of people use
to lose their fingers before they had more of the safety equipment on that stuff.
HC: You work on the big machines and stuff like that than?
‘
EK: See, we maintain the dies that go in these presses, you know. My boss he has all over 40
presses up to 1000 tons, so these are big presses that we put guys in there from here up to 18
/20,000 pounds of steel and those. So it's quite a complicated trade, you know.
�HC: So you went to night school to get your GED and you said, “ Hey I'm just going to do this?”
EK: Yeah. Yeah, I thought I might not need it anymore but it's nice to know I went through with
and did it in five months, so it wasn't too bad.
HC: What kind of stuff do you do for fun?
EK: What kind of stuff? We still ski my wife and I. Sometimes in the summertime we still play
a little tennis and I play my accordion. When I was a kid I used to play soccer. Also play table
tennis. I used to play for Rockford Table Tennis Club years ago. Five or six years or something.
Then we had kids and stuff and other things became priorities.
HC: How many children do you have? Three boys. They all went to Rockford College. My
brother’s son he is a neurosurgeon. Down in Nashville, Tennessee that's where my brother
moved to after he left Rockford. How many years now, eight? Seven years? He had only that
one son so he wanted to be near him.
HC: You know, I really don't have any more questions I think we got them all answered this I
don't know if you have anything you want to add at all, your experience of coming over here.
EK: I just want to say I like this country, love this country, I am happy to be here, you know. I
like Rockford and it's been a good town for us. I love my family, our kids have all done well,
you know they all got good jobs, they all went to Rockford, College, so Rockford's been my
home.
HC: Thank you, I appreciate it.
EK: Is that it?
HC: That's it.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Erwin Konrad
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Erwin Konrad
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
October 20, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Erwin Konrad was born in East Germany. He immigrated to the United States in 1957 and came to Rockford, Illinois to live with his brother.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Chung Lee
Interviewed February 2, 2008
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Holli Connell: Okay if you could say your first and last name?
Chung Lee: My name is Chung Lee.
HC: Are you married?
CL: Yes.
HC: Do you have children?
CL: Yes, I have one son.
HC: What is your education background?
CL: I graduated from the university in my country.
HC: Where do you work?
CL: Here? Yes. I’m still at Rock Valley College.
HC: How long have you been in the United States?
CL: Over 7 years.
HC: And where are you from originally?
CL: I am from South Korea.
HC: Where in South Korea?
CL: You mean born in city?
HC: Yes city, village
CL: I was born in city Gunsan, South Korea and I grow up in Seoul.
HC: What did you do before you came here to the United States?
CL: Teacher
HC: What kind of teacher?
CL: Music.
�HC: What was your life like then in Korea before you came here? Were you married?
Did you live with family? What was it like; how did you live?
CL: Why did I leave my country? My son was studying here.
HC: So you came here for your son.
CL: Yes for my son’s education.
HC: What was it like before you came? How did you live before you came to the United
States? Let’s see how can I ask this question. Were you married?
CL: Yes.
HC: So you were married in South Korea?
CL: Yes.
HC: You were a teacher?
CL: Yes.
HC: Did your husband work?
CL: Yes, my husband worked as a mechanical designer you know making mechanical
designs in a company.
HC: And how old was your son would you moved here?
CL: 2000 years. 11 years old.
HC: Were you happy in South Korea?
CL: Yes, of course.
HC: And again what made you want to come to the United States? What made you
decide to come here again?
CL: My son was studying, the education.
HC: What steps did it take to get here? What steps did you have to take to travel here and
live here?
CL: First time we had to travel and the next time I was sponsored by the church. I was
music director for the church and they gave a green card last year.
�HC: And it was through a church?
HC: Last year, 2007.
HC: What made you decide to come to Rockford?
CL: My sister lived in Freeport.
HC: Did you have any other family that lived in the area?
CL: Just my sister.
HC: Had you been to this country before you moved here? Had you ever flown to the
United States or come to visit before you actually moved to live here?
CL: Oh, a few months later we just decided to stay here that year is 2000 and a few
months later my husband came back to my country to sell house and everything and he
come back to the United States just to spend time one month.
HC: Can you describe to me the journey of when you left South Korea and went to the
airport and came here? How did you feel about the idea of going to America when you
had been here before? What was your journey like and your thoughts like on the journey.
CL: I just wanted to visit my sister’s house and think about the USA. USA is a good
country and I hoped if it is possible I wanted to live in America.
HC: Did you stop or stay anywhere between leaving Korea and coming to the United
States? Were there any stops along the way before you got to Rockford?
CL: First I lived two months at my sister’s house, next we moved to Aurora, for three
months at that place and then we move here to Rockford. We still live in Rockford.
Rockford is the hometown. I like the hometown.
HC: Was there anyone here to help you settle in?
CL: My sister.
HC: Did any members of your family come after you?
CL: No.
HC: Had you met anyone from your home country after you arrived?
CL: Of course, I met a lot of Korean people in Chicago and Rockford. Yes.
HC: Were there any people from the same part of your country?
�CL: No.
HC: How did you find your first place to live in Rockford?
CL: My sister introduced us to this place because I decided immigration in 2000. People
I visited two times in the United States and I decided on immigration the third time and I
visited Rockford a lot because of my sister, showing me the city, Cherryvale Mall and
any place. It’s a cute city. I am very impressed with the city.
HC: Did you have a job waiting for you upon arrival?
CL: I’m not sure about the question but my first job was music director in Chicago. I live
here and drive to do the church Sunday and Friday and Wednesday. I just visited the
church in Bartlett.
HC: When you finally decided to come here did you have a job waiting for you or did
you have to find a job once you moved here?
CL: I wanted a job because I need money. My second job was at Rockford Memorial
Hospital as a housekeeper and my third job sometimes I had to waitress in Chicago and
here. Now I’m at Rock Valley College.
HC: When you moved here in 2000 you had a green card?
CL: Yes.
HC: Did that limit you at all on finding a job? Did it make it difficult or anything?
CL: Of course, because the problem is my English. My English is low but I can explain
everything that is the reason I want to really study English. I just started last semester.
HC: I can understand what you are saying but I can tell it is hard for you to understand
me. I can tell it is hard for you to understand me but I know that what I am saying maybe
isn’t very clear. I’m trying to think of how to say things right.
HC: Does your husband work?
CL: Yes.
HC: How is his English?
CL: The same to me.
HC: Do you speak your native language at home?
�CL: Yeah, of course all the time.
HC: How about with your son does he also speak your native language?
CL: Yes, of course. My son’s English is very well.
HC: Is that because he went right into school?
CL: The school is an Aurora. The Mathematics and Science Academy. His grade is now
a senior. He is smart.
HC: Where do you see yourself working in five years? Your future in five years?
CL: My plan is the course of music, my voice. I really want to be a music teacher in this
place.
HC: Do you sing?
CL: Yes. My real major is voice.
HC: Do you do stuff local here?
CL: I have joined the Mendelssohn chorus and Artisan and St. Mark Lutheran Church,
the choir team.
HC: When you first got here how did you get around town? Did you drive a car or did
you take a private transportation?
CL: Yes I had a car I could drive.
HC: Do you own a car?
CL: Yes.
HC: Was it hard finding your way around Rockford at first and what were the
challenges?
CL: My husband and I at the time my job going to Chicago was interchange near the
place I was looking for the interchange place it was very close. My first house was a
Halverson and Mulford and a new townhome and we moved in 2006 September to this
place.
HC: Do you own now?
CL: Yes.
HC: How long did it take for you to feel comfortable on your own in Rockford?
�CL: Yes.
HC: How long, a year or did it just happen? Are you comfortable on your own in
Rockford now?
CL: Yes.
HC: Were you when you first moved here?
CL: 2001, July 30.
HC: Were you comfortable than in Rockford 2001?
CL: Yes.
HC: Were you able to get around on your own?
CL: Yes Rockford is like a hometown.
HC: Did you speak English upon arrival in the United States?
CL: Yes, I can read English before the first time I came here nothing. I can read every
word and understand but speaking is different.
HC: Did anyone in your family know how to speak English or understand English, your
son or your husband?
CL: My son very well and my husband’s same to me.
HC: Has your son tried to help you with your English?
CL: Of course.
HC: Does your knowledge of English affect you and your family in a positive way here at
Rockford? How did you integrate yourself into the community? Did you join any club’s
or churches or groups?
HC: Yes.
HC: What were those?
CL: I joined Mendelssohn club and St. Mark’s Lutheran Church and we have a good
Korean community but I know if just one church and Artisan member one time a month.
HC: Are you active in politics? Voting? Mayor’s politics?
�CL: I’m not interested in politics.
HC: How did it feel for you to come to a foreign country and become comfortable? How
did it feel to integrate into this country was it confusing or easy or what was it like. I’m
leaving this country that I know I’m going to make this my home.
CL: I think it’s okay.
HC: How did people treat you when you arrived? How do people act towards you when
you arrived here was any one mean or happy or sad to you? People were nice?
CL: Yes, I think American people are very nice, very good people. They helped a lot to
me.
HC: Did you have any problems or differences in your neighborhood?
CL: No, my neighbor was very nice for my family. America’s help my family a lot.
Neighbors are good, so kind and so nice.
HC: Is that your neighbor now?
CL: Yes.
HC: What did you think of this country before you came and have your ideas about
America changed?
CL: I’m not sure how can I explain. I don’t think it really changed almost the same
because my sister in marriage with an American guy and my brother-in-law is a very nice
guy, good people.
HC: Has your move here turned out like you thought it would? Did you have an idea of
how you would live here and are you living that life?
CL: Yes.
HC: What has been the best part about moving to the United States?
CL: Education.
HC: What has been the hardest part?
CL: English.
HC: What do you miss most about your former home? What do you miss about your
country?
�CL: I don’t think I miss nothing. We are living very well in my country, no problem,
good business, nice house, no problems.
HC: Have you gone home to visit since you have lived here?
CL: Yes just one time.
HC: What was it like?
CL: My country? Like nice people, nice society and I really miss my country but if I
choose two countries to live, I’m here. Because my country is too small and very busy
and sometimes bothering people. Korean custom is bothering people. I can’t explain.
HC: Do you think you will spend the rest of your life here?
CL: Yes.
HC: In Rockford?
CL: Yes if impossible. Rockford is good.
HC: What do you want your son to remember about your culture from your home
country?
CL: I think my son remembered everything, my family, school and I don’t think he will
forget it.
HC: Is there any one thing from your culture that you want him to keep it in his life either
a tradition that you do or the way that you are because of where you are from? Is there
anything you want him to keep from South Korea? Do you celebrate traditions or
holidays?
CL: Yes of course. New Years, everything.
HC: Is there something you want your son to celebrate that we don’t celebrate here?
CL: Yes, February 7 is Korean New Year, at the time we eat rice cake and popcorn.
HC: Will you celebrate that this year?
CL: Yes, we celebrate at that time and Korean Thanksgiving.
HC: When is that?
CL: Same season as American Thanksgiving.
HC: Do you have turkey?
�CL: Of course I like that. I like that two times a year, at Christmas and Thanksgiving I
really want turkey.
HC: Are there any foods that when you came here you didn’t like?
CL: No, I think the food is very nice.
HC: Are there any foods that when your came here you were like ugh?
CL: No.
HC: Are there foods that you make here that are from your home country?
CL: Yes.
HC: What kind of stuff do you make that you don’t traditionally see in America?
CL: Pasta, spaghetti.
HC: Anything else?
CL: Green beans. I like green beans and” hamburg”.
HC: What do you like to do for fun?
CL: My life is fun music.
HC: Are you a citizen now?
CL: Not yet. I’m just a green card. Maybe five years later.
HC: Is your husband and your son going to be the same steps?
CL: Yes.
HC: How do you feel about the current debate in this country about immigration?
CL: I think it’s very happy. I’m really happy.
HC: Are you concerned at all about going through the steps to become a citizen that the
immigration laws might change and make that complicated or are you happy with the
steps?
CL: Maybe if they stop my green card I go back to my country but there is sorrow, makes
me sad.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Chung Lee
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Chung Lee
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
February 2, 2008
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Chung Lee was born in South Korea. She came to the United States and to Rockford, Illinois in 2000.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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491375bf00ce5a9c80b5aae35dda6d32
PDF Text
Text
Puja Mediratta
Interviewed March 12, 2008
By Jean Seagers
Midway Village Museum
�Jean Seagers: And can you tell me your name?
Puja Medhiratta: Yes, Puja Medhiratta
JS: And you are from where?
PM: I am from India.
JS: Where specifically?
PM: Oh, I in India I am from northern part of India which is a little bit south of Agra where the
Taj Mahal is a, a places called Chan Si.
JS: Are you married?
PM: Yes I am.
JS: And your husband's name.
PM: His name is Deepak.
JS: And children?
PM: I have two children. My son is 12 years of age. His name is Neil and my daughter is nine
years of age and her name is Megan.
JS: Where were you educated?
PM: I finished my high school in India and then I was educated in Rockford itself. I went to
Rock Valley College. I received my bachelors in nursing from St. Anthony's College of nursing.
JS: When was that?
PM: That was in 1995 and I went into my school nursing and further went ahead and did my
master's in educational leadership.
JS: Where do you work?
PM: I work for the Durand public school as an Assistant Principal and school nurse.
JS: 2 jobs?
PM: Yes, that is right.
JS: How long have you been there?
�PM: I am finishing up my 10th year there.
JS: Do you like working there?
PM: Yes it is good, it is a small facility.
JS: When did you come to the United States?
PM: I came to the United States in 1990, 18 years ago.
JS: And you were how old at the time?
PM: I was 18.
JS: What was your life like in India?
PM: Well, I was much younger, a kid in India. Comparatively to the United States or just in
general?
JS: I guess you would have to compare it to the United States.
PM: In general I was growing up a teenager, I had friends. We did not have facilities like the
United States. In India we had cars but we didn't drive cars every day. I had a moped. And we
had a lot of people in India who were working in our house. It was a cultural shock when I got
here and I saw oh, I had to do dishes. It was a cultural shock but it's really different. Like the
facilities in the United States are different from the facilities in India. My life was like my
parents took good care of us; I went to a good school. I was in a private school. My sister and I,
there were two of us and my dad had his own business and joined family. My grandmother, my
mother, my uncles, they lived in the same household and I guess one main thing was that we had
about 10 people in and out of our house working and helping out and stuff.
JS: Why did you come to the United States?
PM: I got married to my husband and my husband was here so I moved to be with him.
JS: How did you meet him?
PM: Through family members. It was an arranged marriage.
JS: You said you went to high school before that?
PM: Correct.
JS: Did you want to come here? Was that something you were looking forward to?
�PM: No, I guess in Indian culture in arranged marriages wherever the husband is that's where
you go and parents arranged it so I didn't know I had an option.
JS: And when were you married?
PM: 1990, in India.
JS: How did they arrange the marriage? Was this done a long time ahead of time? Did your
husband ask your parents permission, how does that work?
PM: His parents asked my parents. In arranged marriages that's how it usually goes. There is a
few different versions of our marriage. There is my grandmother's version who says that when I
was eight months old, families knew each other and he was over at our place and I was crawling
around and he was chasing me and my grandmother said you have to grow up and get married
and then take her.
JS: And how old was he if you were eight months old?
PM: He was eight years of age.
JS: Was he from Rockford?
PM: He is Indian too and from India they moved to Rockford in the mid 70s.
JS: So he more or less grew up here?
PM: Correct.
JS: Had you ever been to the United States before?
PM: No, I have not been to the United States before.
JS: How long did it take to make the arrangements? Were there a lot of complicated things that
had to be done before you came?
PM: Like paperwork and stuff? No, it took about three to four months.
JS: So the arrangements were made for your marriage quite a bit ahead of time and you were
married in India?
PM: Correct.
JS: Did anyone else come with you besides your husband?
PM: My husband was already here. So just me.
�JS: You were married in India and then you came back?
PM: Yes, I came later on after our marriage. It takes about three to four months for paperwork to
process and once I had my papers and stuff then I could come.
JS: How was your journey here? Did you fly?
PM: Yes, I flew here.
JS: Did you go anywhere before coming to Rockford? Did you land at Chicago or New York?
PM: Yes, I landed in Chicago.
JS: And what did you do there?
PM: I still remember the day when I had landed. My husband, his parents and his sister,
everybody was there to pick me up. It was a white Taurus that my father-in-law had and we
were driving out of O'Hare and I saw these beautiful huge buildings and I thought oh, this is
beautiful. This is what I imagine the United States to be. This is what I imagine to be living at
and stuff and a little bit later we started coming into Elgin and Marengo, Belvidere and I thought
where are we in this farmland. Are we going into a village or something? And when we came to
Rockford I saw these houses which have slanted roofs and that’s how our huts are in India. I had
not seen homes like these before. So I imagine oh these are huts so we are living in a village.
That was my impression.
JS: Was the town you came from a large one?
PM: It's a mid size town, kind of like Rockford.
JS: Did you stay with anyone when you came? Or did you have your own home when you got to
Rockford?
PM: When we got to Rockford it was my husband's parent’s home and that's where we lived with
them.
JS: For how long?
PM: We lived there for two years with them.
JS: Did you know anyone here other than your husband?
PM: No.
JS: Who helped you get settled? His Parents?
�PM: My husband was settled and yes his parents did help us when we got the new house and we
settled in and stuff.
JS: You bought a home after two years?
PM: Yes.
JS: How about other members of your family have they been to the United States?
PM: No.
JS: Did any of them come afterwards?
PM: Yes, afterwards I did have a lot of my family member’s visit us and right now my parents
live with us.
JS: How did you go about meeting other Indian families?
PM: Through my in-laws I met other Indian families and through my husband.
JS: Are there quite a few of them in the Rockford area?
PM: Yes, there are lots of Indian families.
JS: Were any of them from near where you lived? Did you know any of them?
PM: No, I did not know any of them.
JS: And you said that you lived with your husband's parents to begin with?
PM: correct.
JS: How did you go about finding a place to live after that?
PM: The real estate market, we just went around house hunting and looked at a whole bunch of
homes in the Rockford area.
JS: Were your Indian friends able to help you out with any of that?
PM: My husband new quite a lot about Rockford.
JS: And currently do you still own your home?
PM: Yes.
JS: You said your parents are living with you?
�PM: Correct. My parents reside with me.
JS: And when did they come here?
PM: Actually they came here to help with our second child and that's when they moved here.
That was in 1998.
JS: You must have a fairly large home?
PM: It's mid size home, a decent sized home.
JS: And you said you are working?
PM: Correct.
JS: Did you work for a while when you came here or did you go to school right away?
PM: I started school right away. I went to Rock Valley College.
JS: Did you speak English?
PM: Yes, I did.
JS: Did your visa limit you at all to any kind of work that you could do?
PM: No.
JS: And what does your husband do?
PM: He works for Nicor Gas Company in Rockford.
JS: Do you think you still will be working in the school in another five years or so or do you
have plans to do something else?
PM: Yes, so far I plan on working in a school but I also believe in you know its destiny. I don't
know what my destiny has for me the next five years.
JS: How did you get around when you first came here you didn't have a driver's license did you?
PM: Correct. My father-in-law taught me how to drive right away and my husband already had a
car for us, for me and I learned driving, got my drivers license within like three weeks or so so I
could be mobile.
JS: So you and your husband owned a car?
PM: Correct.
�JS: Did you find it difficult to find your way around?
PM: No, not really. I would have to ask for directions from my husband and it took me a little
while to learn Rockford but Rockford is pretty simple. I mean there's Alpine, and Mulford and
East State and everything else is around it. So no, I didn't have any difficulties.
JS: That must've been difficult when you first came, a new husband that you didn't know before
and a new town and the new school.
PM: It was an adjusting time.
JS: How long did it take you before you felt comfortable being here?
PM: I would say that it took me about a good two years I would say.
JS: Were you homesick for a while?
PM: Oh yes.
JS: Plenty of phone calls to your family?
PM: More letter writing. I think 18 years ago there weren't as much international phone calls.
Every once in a while. I don't think we had a phone in our home in India so it was difficult but
letter writing was quite a lot.
JS: You said you spoke English. Did you learn that in India?
PM: We were in a private school in India. We had English from third grade on.
JS: So you were pretty fluent by the time you got here?
PM: Correct. I had a very strong English accent. England English accent.
JS: Did it make it a lot easier for you that when you came here you could speak the language?
PM: Correct. It was hard for me to understand because of the accent and I think it was hard for
people to understand me because of the accent too.
JS: How did you integrate your self into the community?
PM: You know going to Rock Valley was a self-esteem booster and just seeing other Indian
people, other Asian kids there it was good networking we would be in the library studying
together and talked to them.
JS: Did you attend church of any kind or temple or synagogue or mosque?
PM: Yes, we did go to our monthly prayers which was held in Rockford.
�JS: Do you still do that?
PM: There are other options too and our kids go to Sunday School.
JS: Do you belong to any organizations?
PM: We do the Sunday school.
JS: Any others?
PM: I can't think of any, not formally or informally I guess.
JS: Community groups or schools?
PM: Right, like PTO, school groups, community groups like informally we have Asian club,
Mendelssohn club for my daughter.
JS: Are you at all active in politics?
PM: Not at the moment.
JS: How did people treat you when you came here?
PM: I think they treated me well because I treat people well so they treat me well. It's give and
take I feel. I didn't feel discriminated or anything like that.
JS: You didn’t feel out of place or uncomfortable?
PM: No.
JS: How about in your neighborhood, were there any people in your neighborhood in Rockford
that maybe discriminated against you or were unkind?
PM: No, I never did feel that really.
JS: Was there any particular place where you might feel uncomfortable, grocery stores?
PM: When there were wars and stuff like that, or now that jobs are going to China and India so
every once and awhile I would hear something about it but I really wouldn't feel that people
would discriminate.
JS: What did you think about America before you came here?
�PM: I imagined like what it was like in the movies and posters, like Chicago, the huge buildings
and fast-paced life, lots of cars and bigger and newer cars, neat and clean.
JS: Did you notice here that it wasn't as congested?
PM: Immediately that there were not enough people for me to associate with socialize with.
JS: Have your ideas changed at all as far as what you thought when you first came?
PM: About the United States? Yes, I mean it was a fantasy world and now it's a reality.
JS: What do you like most about this country?
PM: At the moment? Opportunities, if I put hard work and effort into it I get the return, the
response back. I like that.
JS: What has been something hard for you here or disappointing?
PM: I think culture over here if there is an American culture that has been disappointing to me. I
mean I feel that the ethics and the morals are missing and people take this for granted the
opportunities that we have over here. That's been disappointing to me.
JS: Did you notice that right away?
PM: No. It took me a while to notice that.
JS: What's different about for instance food here than it was in India?
PM: I have never had a hamburger, beef and culturally we never did eat beef but over here when
I tried hamburger the food was something new.
JS: Did you like it?
PM: At first I did not and now I like it to a point where like once in six months or something like
that.
JS: Are there spices to it that are different here?
PM: Correct. I think food is bland here.
JS: What do you miss most about your home in India?
PM: I miss the house, friends and family, people. Yes, that's what I miss, the people.
JS: Specifically, your family?
�PM: Correct.
JS: Have you been home to visit?
PM: Yes, last trip was four years ago.
JS: And did you find it different?
PM: Yes, India is progressing too, it’s getting very westernized too and in my mind India is what it was
in 1990 but it has progressed quite a lot since then.
JS: What do you see that it's different?
PM: People are just getting very much westernized and everything that's available here,
materialistic, it's available in India too. People's outfit that’s a big thing, they are not really
wearing traditional outfits anymore, they are getting more westernized and short skirts and shorts
and stuff which we never wore when we grew up.
JS: You wore the saris?
PM: We wore like pants, long skirts and suits and stuff.
JS: Do you think you will spend the rest of your life here?
PM: Once again, I believe in destiny: I don't know. The way the world is moving it is getting
globalized, who knows, we might end up in Switzerland or Italy or somewhere, who knows.
JS: What do you want your son and daughter to know about the culture of your homeland?
PM: Family is one big thing and respect, loving, loyalty, good ethics.
JS: Did the children go with you when you went back four years ago?
PM: My daughter did, yes.
JS: Has your son then back?
PM: He has only been there once when he was one year of age. He hasn't been back since.
Someday.
JS: What do you like to do for fun?
PM: I like to read. I belong to a book club, talk to my friends, socialization, watch movies.
JS: Be with your family?
�PM: Yes.
JS: You are a naturalized citizen?
PM: Correct.
JS: What has been the most difficult thing for you to adjust to after coming to this country?
PM: I never thought about it that way. Probably the adjustment of not knowing the neighbors
and I think in India people are very upfront and over here it's looked at as nosey. I mean
everybody is into everybody's business and people would ask people questions which over here
are considered very private and not knowing that and learning and I'm still learning; I learned a
lot and I'm still learning and that's really difficult for me where to draw the line. If somebody
tells me that you know this is my time I don't want to be bothered it's like oops I get very self
conscious and say how many times have I violated other persons rights here. So that's difficult
for me to not be brought up in this culture not knowing about when I communicate where am I
crossing the line here? At times I am too cautious I feel and I probably do not approach more of
myself to the other person.
JS: How about adjusting to a marriage when you did not know your husband ahead of time was
that difficult?
PM: Yes. It was difficult but we worked through; we brought up that there was no other option
and we had no other option so we worked through.
JS: What were you most nervous about when you were thinking about moving here?
PM: Family, family, family. How will it be, how will my husband be, my in-laws and how will I
adjust.
JS: Do you like Rockford do you like living in this town?
PM: It is a good family town. Initially I did not like it I thought it was too small, like Chicago is
more fast-paced and I wanted to be fast-paced and stuff but once I had my kids it was a very
good family town. It has lots and lots of facilities for all different age groups. We belong to
Coronado, season passes and stuff. It’s a beautiful place. We just love it now. There is a
JS: One last question. How do you feel about the current debate in this country about
immigration and immigrants coming in? Legal or illegal
PM: I have heard more about illegal immigrants and if something is illegal it's illegal but for
legal immigrants things are getting globalized. I know lots and lots of countries are bringing
people from other countries to work in the company because they are hard-working people so it's
give-and-take. I cannot understand that America, the original people are American Indians.
Everybody else's immigrant. So I don't really think that America is losing its culture. This is
how America is. Now if Americans start going to India that's different because Indians have
�originally been there in India or in some other different countries. If they are legal and people
are coming in then that's how it is, they are coming in and they have a right to be here.
JS: What about illegal?
PM: Anything that is illegal is illegal.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seegers
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Puja Medhiratta
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Puja Medhiratta
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 5, 2008
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Puja Medhiratta was born and raised in India. She immigrated to the United States in 1990 to join her new husband Deepak Medhiratta.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Deepak Medhiratta
Interviewed 3/12/2008
By: Jean Seagers
Midway Village Museum
�Deepak Medhiratta
Jean Seagers: What is your name?
Deepak Medhiratta: My name is Deepak Medhiratta.
JS: And you live in Rockford?
DM: Yes I've lived in Rockford since 1976.
JS: Whereabouts do you live?
DM: We live in northeast Rockford right now.
JS: Are you married?
DM: Yes you met my wife; yes.
JS: Her name?
DM: Puja Medhiratta.
JS: And do you have children?
DM: Yes two children, Neal and Megan.
JS: They have American names.
DM: Well we got to change a little but I suppose.
JS: How old are they?
DM: 12 and nine.
JS: Where were you educated?
DM: Well I started my schooling in India Delhi, India and I've been in this country since middle
school and high school and I want to Rock Valley too here locally.
JS: So how old were you when you came here?
DM: 12 years old.
JS: What brought you here?
DM: My parents, my parents moved here so here I am.
JS: Why did they want to come here?
DM: To seek a better life for our family.
JS: Did you come right to Rockford then?
DM: Yes.
JS: You must've known someone here.
�DM: My uncle which was responsible for bringing all of us here. He was in Rockford at that point.
He's in Ohio now but, yes he was the one. He came here so my dad came here. We came later
on my mom and my sister.
JS: You gradually came all of you?
DM: Yes he came like a year earlier and we came later.
JS: Where do you work now?
DM: I work for Nicor Gas Company.
JS: Have you been there for a while?
DM: Almost 20 years next month.
JS: You said you're from Delhi?
DM: Delhi it’s the capital of India big, big city.
JS: Millions?
DM: Yes definitely, definitely.
JS: What did your parents do there that they wanted to leave India?
DM: Well my mother was a housewife. She just took care of the house and the kids and the
family. My dad had his own business which wasn't going that well at the end so he wanted to try
something different and see how we could improve the family.
JS: That's a big change.
DM: Definitely yes.
JS: So you had your early schooling in India?
DM: Yes, which was an English school.
JS: Did you know English when you came here?
DM: Yes I did.
JS: Where did you go to school then?
DM: I went to Lincoln Middle School and graduated from Jefferson.
JS: Did you say you spoke English then?
DM: I spoke English when I came. I'm sure I've improved since I came.
JS: What was your life like in India?
DM: Well I was just 10 years old. Kids go to school, play, have fun really, no responsibility.
JS: Did you have a middle-class upbringing or what level there do you think?
�DM: I was middle-class. We weren't high and we were safe and middle class I would say.
JS: Did you have brothers and sisters?
DM: I have a sister she lives in the Chicago area now but she came originally too yes.
JS: It was just your father and mother and sister then?
DM: And then my uncle and his family lived in town. My other uncle lived in town but they both
live in Ohio now so my dad is still in town. My mom passed away so my dad lives in town yes.
JS: And that's the reason you came to Rockford itself?
DM: Yes my dad came here 12 years old from somewhere that far away he's going to go with his
parents.
JS: You had never been to this country before visiting or anything right?
DM: No never first-time.
JS: What about your dad?
DM: No.
JS: Did it take a long time to make those arrangements for your uncle to bring you over?
DM: It didn't take that long back then but I know now it takes a long time. I mean an immigrant
can go to India and get married and bring his spouse takes five years right now but when I
married Puja I was a US citizen so it only took her like four months. I believe but now even that's
a longer process now and when my uncle sponsored my dad it took like 3, 4 or five years maybe.
Now you would be lucky if the brother can come in 20 years. The lines have gotten so long just
more and more people are sponsoring so it takes longer 20 years to be reasonable then so you
don't know why that person might be not living anymore.
JS: Do you remember anything about traveling here the journey here what it was like?
DM: Well it's a long way. It wasn't the first time I was in an airplane. I've flown before it’s a long
almost 18 hour flight time a long flight yes.
JS: And where did you land Chicago?
DM: Yes I came from Delhi to London from London to Chicago.
JS: What did you think when you landed in Chicago?
DM: Well that was the first time I saw snow which we have plenty of this year, too much.
JS: You came in the winter then?
DM: I came in November. Yes as a matter of fact I came November 1976 wasn't that the election
day when Jimmy Carter was I think it was the 200th year of the United States 1776 too... I think.
JS: Jimmy I think he became president about that time yes.
JS: Did you stay in Chicago for a while or did you come right out of Rockford?
�DM: No we came to Rockford.
JS: Who was there to meet you?
DM: My dad and my uncle and aunt.
JS: And what you think of Rockford?
DM: I don't know everything was big big, big, big cars, big homes, big yard. We had a house in
India too but the yard and stuff we have here now we have a big lot right now. Again, we came
from a big city just like in this country if you were in a big city you know your yards are smaller
and stuff. Here everything is bigger, a little cheaper to buy compared to bigger towns.
JS: You said you had uncles here did they have children; were there any other children?
DM: He had two children. He came here in 1969 originally so he was here much earlier than all of
us.
JS: Who helped you get settled then?
DM: Well my dad had already my dad had initially come and stayed with my uncle for awhile and
then he got a job and then an apartment. When we came here we had an apartment kind of a
house semi furnished so we lived.
JS: How did you mother feel about that?
DM: We again we came from a big city in India where we stayed with our grandparents together
like one big family. It's a little different but you know.
JS: Where did you stay when you first moved here then you stayed in an apartment?
DM: We lived off of Sandy Hollow Road, yes.
JS: How did you go about finding a place of your own than with your family?
DM: My dad had an apartment and then a year later he bought a house on Harrison Avenue and
then we stayed there then when I got married and stuff we bought a house over here.
JS: How long have you been married?
DM: 1990.
JS: And you own a home now you said?
DM: Yes
JS: Is there anyone living in the home besides you and your two children?
DM: My wife's parents live with us.
JS: Are there any other people from India in your neighborhood?
DM: Oh yeah a lot of them.
JS: Is it kind of an ethnic neighborhood?
�DM: I wouldn't call it ethnic but it's a prime location northeast everybody around there is
professional people and stuff.
JS: You said you went to Lincoln when you got here was that difficult to get acclimated?
DM: Yes where I came from we had uniforms in India. Here we didn't have uniforms. We did not
call our teachers in India by their names. Sir here I was very it was a hard time getting used to
saying Mr. Miller.
JS: Were they all male in India you teachers?
DM: No but you call her Auntie. You would never say a name in this country saying somebody's
name is not... in India we’re more respectful. I'm not saying it's disrespect here but if I was to call
someone's name and I'm 10 years old and he's 50 years old I don't think you take it very well.
JS: Just a cultural thing.
DM: Yes
JS: Then you went to Jefferson?
DM: Yes I graduated from Jefferson, yes.
JS: And after school then what happened?
DM: Well I went to Rock Valley and got my associates in business and I haven't gone further yet
but I work for NICOR Gas. It's been good to me.
JS: Are you a naturalized citizen?
DM: Yes.
JS: Where does your wife work?
DM: She works for Durand School District.
JS: Is she a teacher?
DM: She's an Assistant Principal/nurse over there.
JS: Where do you see yourself working in another five years?
DM: No I think I'll be where I'm working. I am not going to go and look for a different job or
anything. I'm happy and okay.
JS: What kind of work do you do?
DM: I work in the field at NICOR.
JS: Going back to when you first came to Rockford did you have trouble getting around? Did your
father have a driver’s license or anything?
DM: Oh yeah you have to in this country. I know there are buses out there but they're not very
convenient I don't think. My dad he drove in India before to it wasn't a total... it's a new thing
�because you drive in the opposite lane in the left, here you do the right driving so that something
you have to get used to yes.
JS: Did you get a license as soon as you turned 16?
DM: Yes I did, yes.
JS: Did your family own a car then?
DM: Yes.
JS: Did you find it hard to find your way around Rockford?
DM: Not really. I was here a few years before I started driving.
JS: Right but just getting around the town?
DM: Yes it's a new town yes a little bit you have to get to know the town but it's not a big town
compared to if you had to get used to Chicago or something. It’s a small town and easy to find I
believe in this town north and south east and west so it's not like...
JS: Now how was your English when you came here could you communicate with the other kids?
Did they make fun of you or anything like that?
DM: Yeah they did. I mean that's okay that's part of it.
JS: Did you find yourself hanging out with the kids that were your ethnic group or weren't there
not many of those around?
DM: There were not that many around at that time. There are a lot more now in town. I feel not
back then.
JS: Did you have trouble making friends?
DM: A little bit yeah.
JS: Was it because of your personality do you think or were kids just not as friendly?
DM: Well I'm new and people don't know me that well so it takes time to warm up to people you t
know.
JS: Did you parents speak English when they came?
DM: Yes.
JS : Language was never a problem for your family then?
DM: No, we spoke English back in India too, not as a first language but enough.
JS: Do you feel that you integrated pretty well into the community?
DM: I believe so, yes.
JS: How about your parents?
�DM: I think it's easier for a younger person to get adapted to a society, a new community
compared to an older person. You’re a little more flexible if you're young more compared to
somebody who comes here when they're 40 years old. It's hard for them to you know, you do the
best you can.
JS: Do you attend a church or synagogue or a temple or a mosque?
DM: Yeah we have a Hindu there is no Indian Hindu church what they call a [mundis],[mundis] is
another word for church. There is not one in town at this point maybe someday There is one in
the Chicago area which we went to about a month ago.
JS: How about when you were growing up to two going to Chicago then?
DM: Yes, yes but we do have a monthly Puja service in town church at Spring Creek. I'm sorry
High Crest on Alpine they let us use their church and we have a service there once a month.
JS: Do you belong to any organizations through work or church?
DM: We are a member of the Indian Association of Rockford.
JS: Are you active at all in politics in Rockford?
DM: No, in the Association you mean?
JS: In Rockford are you interested I should say?
DM: No, I think not know we've had some issues and I don't think it's not for everybody.
JS: How did it feel to come to a foreign country leaving something you've always known and
coming to a foreign country?
DM: It's a big change, shock but again our parents came here and it's not like they asked us if we
wanted to or not they were coming for us too it's for everybody. So it's worked out and I'm glad
we came.
JS: So when you decided you were going to get married did your parents, was it your decision or
their decision to go back to India?
DM: To get married? Kind of both we were both okay with it.
JS: That's what the other Indian people in the community that's how they found partners?
DM: I think it's probably done less now I mean I came when I was 12 years old. Like my son he's
born here. He's not going to go to India and get married. Times have changed and I mean I'm
sure he'll get married in this country. We don't know if it'll be Indian or American but whatever
time will tell. He's not going to go back to India and get married that wouldn't be fair because his
outlook on things versus a person over there is different.
JS: Did your parents encourage you to do that to choose a wife from India?
DM: Yeah because I am I feel I'm still...
JS: How did you go about choosing your wife?
DM: Well we had known her through families. I mean I've met her before and parents liked her
parents so that's how it worked.
�JS: How did it take place? Did your parents write to her parents; how did that work?
DM: Yeah I think through a common person in the middle but we knew them too, the distant
families so then we got married and had a big celebration probably 500 people.
JS: In India? You were married in India then?
DM: Yes in Delhi, India.
JS: 500 people?
DM: Yes, if not more.
JS: Is that the way weddings are there?
DM: Depends you know on how my, I guess in our family we do a good big celebration so yes.
JS: What kind of a celebration was it?
DM: Just the traditional Hindu wedding ceremony in like a normal.
JS: What is a Hindu wedding like it is it like one hour or two or three days?
DM: Depends on how much you want to make of it. We had like a spring ceremony the first day.
The second day we had a what they call a (unknown word) and like where, here go to church and
say I do it's like that and then the third thing to go to a secret ceremony where you say with the
priest and do the ceremony and stuff. It's much longer than we do here.
JS: All the friends and relatives come for the full three days?
DM: Some might come for less it depends on how good your friends with, how much time they
have. It's the biggest thing you'll see there. No bride or groom expect to pay for their wedding
which is common here I feel some will some won't or some will help or whatever but there it's not
even a question.
JS: The wife's family or the husband's family?
DM: They all may be the girl's family pays a little more a little bit it's not like they both we had a
pretty good expense at the wedding and I'm sure they did too.
JS: How soon after your marriage then did you come back to the United States?
DM: I think I came 10, 12 days after the wedding and she came, we got married in February. I
came in early March. She came here in July.
JS: Why did she have to wait?
DM: Because of the visa process.
JS: And she came to Rockford?
DM: She flew to Chicago yes.
�JS: When you were growing up what kind of a neighborhood did you live in? Was there a lot of…
DM: Like family, family business entrepreneur, neighborhood people.
JS: Were there any problems between different groups in your neighborhood?
DM: No it's all the same, Hindu people living in the neighborhood. It wasn't like Muslims or
Christians so no problems.
JS: So it really was kind of like an ethnic neighborhood?
DM: Yes back then yeah.
JS: Was there any place around there that you felt unwelcome or uncomfortable?
DM: No, no I will not say that, no.
JS: And you told me that was on the south side?
DM: Delhi India, Northern.
JS: No I'm talking about Rockford.
DM: I thought you were talking about India, sorry.
JS: So when you came to Rockford were you in an ethnic neighborhood?
DM: No it was right off of Sandy Hollow so it wasn't any, no.
JS: When you came here what did you think about this country before you came what had you
heard about the United States?
DM: That it's a good rich good life, prosperity. It's a good prestigious country to be in.
JS: Did a lot of people want to come to the States?
DM: Oh I'm sure yes definitely to get a visa and stuff like I said back then it was five years now
maybe 20 years to get a brother or sister here. So I guess more people are wanting to do this and
people are prospering in India too. It’s not that I think the quality of life that we have in this
country. I mean safety and quality yes it's definitely better.
JS: Have your ideas of this country changed much since that time?
DM: I think the country’s changed but that's the way time and the world everybody's changing
everything is more global now. It's not like look at all our US jobs going overseas at the time you
know.
JS: From the time you brought your wife here has your life turned out in America as you hoped it
would?
DM: Yeah I have no complaints. It's worked out good.
JS: What's the best part?
DM: Just good family, health, gods blessed us with good.
�JS: What has been the hardest thing or something that has disappointed you about America?
DM: I think too much freedom of speech. People can burn a US flag or I mean talk... there's too
much freedom of speech in this country where I think should be a little more respect I feel.
JS: What do you miss most about India?
DM: This year I should say the weather. Weather's been terrible but that's okay. All my
immediate family is here so I haven't gone there in six years now. She went I think three or four
years ago.
JS: How many times have you been back since you moved here?
DM: 5, 6 times maybe in 30 years.
JS: Do you stay for a while?
DM: Usually three weeks, a month maybe it's a long ways yes definitely.
JS: When you go back do you find things are different there than the previous time?
DM: Oh yes there it's changing big-time and everything is more global now you can buy back
then you couldn't buy American things over there now you can buy any American things,
American Levi's or anything you want, Whirlpool appliances which you wouldn't do back then and
people have the money, a lot of people are doing well and you can buy like Ford's got a plant
over there and GM so it’s a lot more accessibility to foreign products now.
JS: Do you miss anything about India?
DM: I can't say at this point all my families here is the main thing is my family is here I really
can't....
JS: Do you think you’ll spend the rest of your life here? Do you think you'd move back to India?
DM: I doubt it I mean. I'm not saying never though we may have a home there and home here
and we might do like people do in Florida here. We might do that; time will tell.
JS: Do you still have some family there?
DM: I have my dad's sister and them not immediate, immediate family but yeah I have family
yes.
JS: How about your wife does she have family there?
DM: No her parents are right here in town. Her parents are in town; my parents are too and her
sisters out of the country over there so both of our immediate families are out of India now.
JS: And India's changed a lot?
DM: Oh big I mean you can't even recognize it's the same country.
JS: Is it more prosperous?
DM: Definitely.
�JS: What do you and your family do for fun?
DM: Well the kids do sports and we take vacation, go to the beach, go up to Wisconsin Dells.
JS: Do you get involved you said your kids were in sports?
DM: Yes my son played baseball. He was on the school basketball team and my daughter does
gymnastics. She's starting some singing group so she's busy.
JS: And you are a citizen?
DM: Yes.
JS: What has been the most difficult thing that you have had to adjust to in the United States?
DM: It's a different culture but I don't know if I can put it on one.. It’s the different people in
America now you have a lot more a different diverse you got people from all over the world in this
country. So it's not like one group.
JS: When you were coming here before you came here was there anything in particular you were
nervous about?
DM: It’s a different; you know leaving your home and coming to a different, this far away new
place and everything new.
JS: How do you feel about the current debate in this country about immigration and about
immigrants legal or illegal?
DM: It's a touchy subject are you saying that people who are illegal should become some kind of
a...?
JS: No, I am saying how do you feel about it. Well let's break it up how do you feel about
immigration and letting more people into our country legally?
DM: Well a lot of people in this country are here illegally already and it's how you want to look at
it. They are here but they're doing odd jobs and you know not paying taxes and stuff. Well if they
were legal but I don't know if you do that then you encourage more people it's a… I don't know
which way is rights I guess the government will decide.
JS: Do you think there should be open immigration though legal?
DM: Probably limited because it has plus and minuses about anything if you bring the world gets
more competitive and if somebody loses their job because somebody else came to their job they
wouldn't... I don't know.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seegers
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Deepak Medhiratta
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Deepak Medhiratta
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 6, 2008
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Deepak Medhiratta was born in India. He immigrated to the United States and came to Rockford, Illinois in 1976 with his parents and sister.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Alene Munyemana
Interviewed August 22, 2007
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Alene Munyamana
Holli Connell: If you could please state your first and last name.
Alene Munyamana: Alene Munyemana.
HC: Are you married?
AM: I am married and the mother of three children.
HC: What is your educational background?
AM: When I was in high school I attended [August Lysee] which was a biology chemistry that
was more what I was doing and right now I am doing my assisted degree in business and
administrative management.
HC: And where do you work?
AM: I work at the Rockford Public Library.
HC: How long have you been there?
AM: Almost 3 years.
HC: And where are you from?
AM: I am from Rwanda which is in Central East Africa.
HC: And when did you come here to the United States?
AM: I came in May 1997.
HC: And then when did you come to Rockford?
AM: I came to Rockford July 2003.
HC: What did you do before you came here to the United States?
AM: I had left my country during when the war was happening in my country so at that time
we left the country and went to live in Senegal without counting other countries we went through
but we went to Senegal for three years before we came here to the United States.
HC: What was your life like them?
�AM: I can say my life was much easy. I had my family around me. I had all my friends. I was
in my country I didn't have to learn new languages which I don't mind but my life was much
easier for me, just being home have real friends and a family around. Things seem to be much
easier for me because of the fact that I was in my country, nothing is like home.
HC: When you had talked about the war going on even though things around you were chaotic
because you had your family it seemed better?
AM: No, any time that you are involved or not involved in any type of war it's a hazardous
situation it's hard to imagine because you fear for your own safety and you fear for the safety of
your loved ones. It's beyond your control so you are hoping for the best.
HC: What made you want to come here?
AM: Actually, I didn't request to come here. Every year the government of the United States has
a certain number of immigration visas is the issue so I guess we can say we are lucky we were
selected in that number of people who were granted the immigration visa so we didn't have to
choose to come here; we were just chosen to emigrate.
HC: Again, how did you make the decision to come? It wasn't a decision you just decided to
make. What were the steps I guess at that point?
AM: There are so many steps that you have to go through and it's a long process because first of
all there is pre-selection, especially for people who have fled the country, there was a war
involved, there were killings involved. So they have to make sure they are taking the right
people not criminals. So in pre-selection they have to go into the background. They have to do
interviews over and over and then when you pass that now you go to the second interview so
now they have to make sure that what you said stays the same or, in the mean time, if they do
find out more information about you because at that time they have to go back and check in the
country to see that we are not involved in some kind of activities. And after that it takes a while
and then you go through the medical tests. So if you have some disease they think that is not
curable most likely you would not be admitted. So they won't take you. For example, if you
have HIV or you have tuberculosis you are not going to go because they don't want to bring
people who have those kinds of diseases into this country. And after that they do the orientation.
In the mean time they go back and check again to make sure they stay the same that nothing has
changed and then you wait for the results and it's a very hard time because you are not sure what
is going to happen. You know we all see ourselves walking but you do not know if you have
some sort of disease and then when it comes and you have a list of people you go to the
orientation which is more exciting. They tell you about life in the United States once you have
arrived. They tell about taking classes for English. Getting in school so it's more exciting phase
because you know you are going to go so then they get the papers done and find sponsors for
you, they get a ticket and then you get to go.
HC: Now did you yourself come here or with other members of your family?
�AM: No, not members of my family because of part of my family was actually killed so there
were not that many outside the country because to be able to get the immigration visa you have
to be in a refugee status so they can't take you out of your contrary you have to be outside of
your country so that's how it works. You have to have a refugee status before you are granted
that immigration visa.
HC: So you came over here alone?
AM: With my children and my husband. At that time I had two children. Two of my children
are Rwandan and one is American.
HC: Why did you decide to come to Rockford?
AM: When we came in 1997 we stayed in Chicago because when you come in as immigrant the
government somehow the way it works, works with the sponsor, a social organization, to have
you coming, to find an apartment for you, to find everything for you. They take you to the place
Social Security to get an ID but because of the life we had before we were not going to sit down
and wait for people to feed us; we had a good life before. I remember when we came in May in
August I started working. I can't wait for these people giving me a check I have to get a check
for myself. I have to earn my own money. So after we were working getting used to English we
decided to move to a better place because we had a one bedroom apartment with two children
and it was real tough so we moved into a two-bedroom.
HC: In Chicago?
AM: Yes, in Chicago. This time we went to Hyde Park which is by the University of Chicago.
So we stayed there three years and then we don't really like this life so much because we wanted
a better place for our children so we moved into the suburbs of Chicago, an area called
Streamwood. So after we had spent three to five years, that's when my son was born. My
husband was offered a job in Crystal Lake. We tried to go nearby but we couldn't afford Crystal
Lake because it's expensive and we were like maybe you know we could find a better place,
more affordable housing so we moved to Belvedere.
HC: Had you ever been to this country before?
AM: No.
HC: How long did it take you to make arrangements to come here?
AM: I can probably say maybe nine months, more than that maybe. I don't remember exactly
because at one time I thought we would totally forget about it because again is not only one
person, it's doing so many interviews with these people and they have to send information to
Washington and they have to wait for that to come back. So there's so many things they do so is
not only for that project but there are there things they are taking care of and if there are other
countries involved in the war sometimes there are other priorities so I can say more than nine
months.
�HC: How old were you when you came over here?
AM: 10 years ago, I was 27 years old.
HC: Did you come here alone or with friends or members of your family?
AM: My husband and my two children.
HC: What was the journey like to come here like what was your travel, what did you travel on,
what was it like on the plane or boat and where did you land?
AM: You know when I left it wasn't so much what I was expecting. I wasn't really sure what the
United States was going to be like. I was trying to find out; it is a country that everybody wants
to go live in. It's a great country, the United States. Is the sky blue? I had some weird things
that I was thinking. It's always dark because you hear some of the stories but I think the people
were referring to Alaska so it makes the whole United States. It's like what am I going to do in
this country if there is never sun. So I remember walking getting into the airplane. We left at
four o'clock in the afternoon so we get on; we don't know language. We don't know anybody.
We have a friend of my husband who at the time was working on his Ph.D. at the UIC. So we’re
that's great were going to Chicago so we will be able to find our friend but when we left Dakar it
was four o'clock in the afternoon and I remember it was on Tuesday so the flight was from Dakar
to Paris so we got to Paris there was no problem because we had been in Paris before and we
speak French and so we didn't have a problem because we were comfortable with the language.
So then we have to make connection to take American airline to come to the United States and
all the people coming were supposed to stop by J. F. Kennedy at New York City so we landed at
New York City and what was my impression everybody was so huge. Everything was so huge.
I see these big old cars. I see the big buildings. It was crazy. It's like this country is crazy. I
was shocked. Everybody seemed too big, big cars, tall men. You see the big cops everything
was so big. It's like how do you live in this country and there was so much drama and everything
was so big. So we waited for immigration agent to let us know what we were going to do next
because we really didn't know and I was actually counting on my husband because he could
understand the English better than I was. We waited and they were calling people and people
were telling them where they were supposed to go. Originally we were supposed to go to West
Virginia, Alexandria. So then they change the itinerary to Chicago so we were kind of glad
because we were going to be able to see our friend. Then we took the flight from LaGuardia to
Chicago O'Hare and everybody got very sick but again it was May we were coming from a
country where it was 40°, a country that is so hot and so we’re coming here and May is supposed
to be nice but for us it was totally different. So I got really sick with a cold and I was shivering
and they gave me a blanket so then we came to the airport and they are talking we don't really
understand what they are saying and I'm looking at my husband. Did you hear what they said?
The agent said that we could wait until the other people were supposed to, they were expecting
another flight and we came in early. So seven o'clock and we were expecting the flight to come
in at midnight so we waited for the whole time we don't have a phone number, we don't know
who they are. We don't know what they look like, it was just waiting, waiting, waiting. I
remember we sat on the bench we were waiting and I said to my husband what are we doing
�here? So I didn't like it or we could be homeless here, we have nowhere to go. We don't know
anybody; we don't have any phone numbers.
HC: And it was dark?
AM: No it wasn't actually dark. One night I got to go outside and it was light and you know I
had seen the sun in New York City it was May. Maybe if I came in January it would have been
dark; I’m not sure. And we waited, and waited, and waited. I said to my husband I am getting;
sick I don't know what to do. We can’t understand what this man is saying so I said to him just
go and I pushed him to talk to him, we have been waiting until everybody was gone. We were
not really happy because we were so confused. We didn't know what was going on so we
approached a gentleman who was very nice and my husband said you know we are supposed to
go to this place but we don't know anybody and they haven't come to pick us up so what are we
supposed to do. So we give him the I94 which shows that we got into this country legally and
the gentleman I remember he said oh, you are American. So he took us to a hotel. So we stayed
there he said you are American no problem we’re going to buy you a hotel if these people are not
coming to pick you up. We will have to be in charge because they were supposed to pick you up
and you're not going to sit here and we went to a hotel for the very first night. So we not only
had to find somewhere to stay in a hotel, come on. It was the best. So that was our journey. The
gentleman who was supposed to come and pick us up, he would let him know where we went
and as we were walking through the lobby we saw him coming and he said you know I am so
sorry I'm late. He explained the situation but we really didn't care. We were tired; we want to
sleep so we are checking in and he said you are here and tomorrow noon you can check out and
you can have breakfast we were exhausted we woke up at 12 so we missed the breakfast and
everything. But it was quite an adventure but the ending was very nice.
HC: Did you know anyone here before you came?
AM: We knew my husband's friend but when we came, when we arrived here he actually had left
Chicago to Miami so we were not able to meet him but when I left Africa in Cameroon I had
talked to some of the people I had met and they told me of some people living in Chicago so they
gave us the phone number of those people. They are like once you arrive contact them and that's
what we did once we found our apartment. I called these two ladies and they came to see us and
they were like what can we do, do you need dishes? Do you need clothes, do you need towels
and it was like not only am I in a foreign country these people are just ready to help me. They
don't know who I am but they just want to care and I was feeling positive and safe in a foreign
country that you don't really know anybody but you just see these people who just want to help
you.
HC: That probably helps quite a bit coming with two children.
AM: Yes.
HC: They were from your country but did you know them?
�AM: No, not really. I didn't know there was anybody here and I didn't know how big the country
was. I just had no idea.
HC: Have you met anyone from where you are from since you have been here?
AM: Oh yeah. But not in the Chicago area, but I've actually met classmates which I had no idea
they were here and it's exciting, I remember being in school now your mom you have children. I
met my grade teacher I had no idea she was here. I went to visit her and she came to visit me
and I was so impressed. She told me how I acted in school and she told me I was smart and all
those things you don't know until you become an adult.
HC: Where did you first stay when you came to Belvidere?
AM: I've been living in the same house since.
HC: In Chicago, how did you find a place to live?
AM: The agency who sponsored us found a place for us so and things like that and they actually
do grocery shopping for you so when you arrive the fridge is full with food. And I was like what
is this thing? This is huge. Everything was so big. I was shocked I was like how can you eat
this much food?
HC: Do you feel like that now?
AM: No, but it was so funny. My cousin said he lives in the native land, he's here visiting and he
said everything in this country is big. I've been here so many years now that it seems normal to
me.
HC: Is there anyone from your home country living in your immediate neighborhood?
AM: In Rockford, yes
HC: Are they a part of your life or is there someone that you talk with on a regular basis?
AM: Actually I just met them, somebody introduced me to them. Yeah, we are talking. Some
guy called me Sunday, this is another and he called me and I came home and looked up my
phone. And I see this name and I can tell is a Rwandan name and I said to my husband do you
know this somebody and he said no and I'm like let me give them a call. So I call the person and
they said you call here he was like yeah and I say who are you? I knew he was from my country
just by his name and he said someone gave me your name to call you because I want to meet
you. I want to meet people from my country. I'm having trouble with English and I want to
meet people from my country. So there's actually three people here for my country. I was the
first to arrive. And I plan to do something to make us get together maybe once a year because
people you speak the same language with more helpful to you than to us. I said you just don't call
people who you don't know them. You can't do that; you can't just grab the phone and call
people and he was like I didn't know. And I feel strongly to help them to tell him in this country
you don't just grab the phone just call because the name seems Rwandan.
�HC: Did you have a job or school waiting for you on arrival?
AM: No.
HC: How did you go about finding a job?
AM: I'm a fighter how can I describe myself. I'm that type of a person who can't sit down, just
don't do nothing. I do believe in my own independence. I do believe in supporting my own
family. I don't believe people helping me when I have two arms and two legs and eyes and I can
talk. So I said to my husband I think I am going to get a job. And he was like how so? There
was a job at this one hotel in Chicago, the Hyatt. I went and took the subway so this is from a
town north which is like by Aurora. So I figured out the line I was going to take, I knew it was
the right line and I had this map out. I was going to get out and then go to the hotel. It didn't
faze me that I could be lost. It didn’t faze me that I could find some bad guys. I didn't think
about that. I didn't think someone would harm me what I'm doing wrong and it was daytime and
I took the subway underground. And the way that the people speak I can't even understand. And
they said Jackson and I didn’t understand and I took my map and every time we stopped at a stop
I would cross out word and at the next stop I would do the same thing so I was so much into that
I didn't want to miss my station. So after he gets the station I think it was that Jackson I got off
and went to find the hotel and somebody had told me if you want to talk to a police officer
because they knew the town. People are shopping for things, walking around with a map so in
my mind I was going to find a police officer and talk to them and ask if they knew where I was
going. So I found one gentleman who was a police officer. I wasn’t speaking clear English but I
could show him that I wrote down where I wanted to go so he actually showed me the way and
he is kind to me and he says come with me and I follow him and I went to this hotel lobby, the
interviews, picking up the application and then sitting in the hallway. At that sitting with other
people who come from different countries and don't speak good English but I was so determined
to get a job and I wrote down my name and they called me in the office. The fun part I called my
husband; I say guess what; he said what; I got a job and he said how did you get a job. I said I
got a job and I am going to be working. So I was scheduled to come for the orientation and that's
another story. I could read but to catch the accent that was hard because in Africa they teach a
British accent so you have courage to say here at what it is you just don't get it out. When you
see it written down you know you understand. So I was I really; don't care what she's saying I
will read.
HC: Did your visa limit the kind of work you could do?
AM: No.
HC: Did your husband work outside the home?
AM: Yes. My husband is a chemist.
HC: What did he do when he first came here though?
�AM: He worked at a company he was working at some sort of company but he wasn't really a
chemist so when you come to this country you can't really get what you wish to get because they
still can't trust you, you lack the experience. You don't have the experience and they have to
make sure they have the qualified employees.
HC: Where do you see yourself working in five years?
AM: I see myself running my own organization. I actually have started a nonprofit organization
and I see myself doing that, helping people because I have been put in a situation where there is
so much opportunity. It is up to me just take advantage and do it.
HC: What is your not-for-profit organization?
AM: It’s an organization to help kids back home or in other countries, Third World countries to
help them because I connect kids with schools here and the reason I did that when you talk to so
many young kids they don't know there is Africa they don't know these other countries. It's not
because they don't want to. It's just because there is no need for them to know. I guess there's so
much going on in every day life that people are busy with their own life and they want to support
their families but to me I am kind of from a country which I know so much was going on and I
was given the opportunity to be here so to me it means I can give back to my people. So by
organization we do collect shoes and we donate those shoes to the children in those countries.
Right now I'm sending them to my own country because that's where I know the people; that's
where I feel like I know what is going on. I can start from there and then I could just expand.
HC: Are you looking for kids from this country to help with the donation or just people in
general?
AM: In general, people and then our organization it’s not only helping but I don’t believe in
people helping themselves so what we're doing, we give them and maybe they can start their own
business and they can improve their life and the economy, give the economy a boost, the
economy of the country. If Mr. So-and-so has a business they can improve their life but then
they boost the whole entire economy for the country so we collect the shoes and send them. We
are very new; we are very young. We started in May but it's been great.
HC: I would be interested in finding out what you need for donations.
HC: How did you first get around when you came to the United States? Did you have a car?
Did you use the subway?
AM: Most of the time in Chicago it’s great there is public transportation, buses, trains so which I
think once we lived in Chicago when you take public transportation you know your way out in
downtown. So the train might be tough especially in winter time. So we decide just have a tiny
car. I drove since I was back home so what I need to do is just go practice and knew the rules,
just because it's a new country and then I went and passed my drivers test and so we bought this
tiny car for 3000. I found a family from Burundi the husband was saying if you want to go on
�the subway he will come and pick you up. He will take you wherever you want to go, shopping.
So I've decided to purchase his car.
HC: Do you have that same car still?
AM: No.
HC: Was it hard to find your way around not knowing much English?
AM: No.
HC: How long did it take you before you were comfortable knowing your way around town?
AM: I think I was right away comfortable. I like to discover new places. Again, I like to find
things. I like to be independent. I don't like to be asking things. If I get somewhere once I
know. If I drive around I can find different streets. Here most streets here are perpendicular
which means one street runs into the other one. So I know if I take one street it will get me to the
main street and then I will find my way out.
HC: Unless they've changed the street name which they do in Rockford.
HC: Did you speak English upon arrival and if you did not did anyone in your family and how
did you learn English?
AM: You know when I was young I was always fascinated by English. I remember in high
school I had an English teacher and he was always asking me things in English. Somehow I was
good in English. In high school it wasn't really spoken much and then after I was married I had a
neighbor who was from Pakistan and I think she had moved from England so she was speaking
English and I remember some of my friends couldn't talk to her because they couldn't speak
English. They were always asking me to speak to her. How good was my English? I have no
idea. But they trusted me. So I always wanted to speak English. I was eager to learn English so
I think that made it much easier because I had that need to speak because I like to make friends, I
like to meet people and I like to know about things so that is the reason it did not take me that
much time to really feel comfortable.
HC: And you said your husband could speak a little English.
AM: Yes, he could speak a little bit of English.
HC: Otherwise you took English classes after you got here?
AM: Yes, we did go to Truman College which is a community college in Chicago so I did take
English courses and then actually I remember the class they put me in and I felt I was wasting
my time because I knew what they were teaching me so I moved up to the next class because
what they were teaching I knew already.
�HC: How long did that take you did you take the classes for a couple months?
AM: Yes it was maybe five months. I think I did two courses of English.
HC: How did your knowledge of English affect you and your family once you were here?
AM: It opens up more doors for you because if you could speak English you can get a job. If
you have something you don't understand, for instance bills you can dispute that. If you are lost
you can ask for directions. If you have children in school you can always go talk to the teacher
and then you can ask them what is going on or what is not going on. So once you speak a
language you have all these big doors open for you and there are so many opportunities because
people, if you don't speak the language, the opportunities are so limited.
HC: How old were your children when they came over here?
AM: One was five and the other one was four.
HC: So with English you started right away with them?
AM: Yes.
HC: Once you were here they were learning English?
AM: Yes.
HC: And the five-year-old did she start school right away?
AM: Yes.
HC: They have always talked English in the home probably?
AM: We always talked French at home and my native language which is Rwandan but then
when they went to school I guess it’s psychological. You want to fit in a group so you want to
speak the language. My children went in right away I think within three months they were
speaking English. So actually they didn't go to any program they went right on and they are
doing good right now. My oldest is 16 and is in honor classes and I am so excited and my other
one she is in honors classes too and it's amazing you wouldn't think back then, we brought them
here they had no word of English but now they are at the top of their class. It's amazing.
HC: When you were in Chicago or Rockford did you integrate yourself into the community and
how? Maybe involving yourself in organizations, churches?
AM: The one thing I did when I moved to an area I go find a church and I like to meet people.
I'm not really involved locally because I haven't found something that I really want. I want to be
involved in something that I want to be a part of. I just don't want to go just because I go but I
want to believe in something and if it's something I don't do, I'm not going to be productive
because I don't like it.
�HC: Are there organizations that you are involved in now like your not-for-profit organization?
Are there any other in organizations that you are involved with right now?
AM: I am involved right now with the French-speaking group so it's an adult group that meets
regularly in a town.
HC: How did it feel to come to a foreign country?
AM: It is somehow hard in a way. You don't know anybody. Especially when they speak a
different language and you've heard all these things before you are talking about a country. You
want to watch and be on a lookout. You want to let your eyes wide open because I am a person
who don't like to hear negative things about countries or about people. I like to find out on my
own. People tend to always focus on the bad and don't focus on the good. I am that type of
person that likes to focus on the good before I see the bad. It was a chance for me to go out and
build a new home and meet new people and make new friends and here I am.
HC: Were there any problems when you got here either with neighbors or in the workplace that
made you feel welcome or unwelcome, problems or good things, welcome or unwelcome?
AM: Really I can't tell you. I don't see the bad even if people are doing it; I just don't see it. If
some people try to be mean to me which hardly doesn't happen I see it as their own problem and
not my problem and I always try to do what is right. If I am doing my job I know that I am
doing my job and I always do my best and I don't focus on the bad. I always think that people
have problems but they're not my problems so that's how I do it.
HC: You had mentioned people that helped you when you first got here with towels and food
and stuff was there anything else that happened like that right away, very welcoming any other
people reaching out?
AM: Yeah, after that I don't remember, I think there was a guy who was from my country we
didn't know about and actually he is from my husband's town so he did tell other people who are
from my country who were living in the suburbs about us. I do remember the next weekend he
came to see us and he took us to eat. So we went to Country Buffet and we were looking at all
these people and seeing all this food and we were like what are we supposed to do because we
were looking for more of a traditional restaurant and he was like to pay here and you can eat all
you can. So we went and got our food and there were people eating and we were just so shocked
and then we eat our meat and when we are done we said thank you but you are so disappointed
and we didn't know why. Did we have bad manners or did we eat too much or what did we do?
Why are you so disappointed and he said you don't eat. We were shocked again.
HC: You only had one plate?
AM: Yeah. I grabbed the small plates. I think I put two pieces of meat on it I think maybe
chicken and beef. One person had a big plate filled with meat only and I thought how can you
eat meat by itself. So we did talk about the all-you-can-eat. And we thought okay one plate is
�enough. We thought with the guy we did something really bad because he was so disappointed
because we didn't eat.
HC: What did you think about this country before you came and have your ideas changed with
your original thoughts?
AM: I think this is a great country. People don't really see it because what they see, especially
when you are overseas is what comes through the news. They show you maybe the news and
maybe what's going on but they don't show what it is like to be a regular American. So you don't
get to see that much and you see like Opra shows, you see the Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson
and you think everybody is rich. You think everybody has a mansion. You think everybody
drives a Corvette and lives by the beach and actually when you came to this country that's when
you see the reality. That's when you see the American people and regular people you see them in
towns, where what you see normal people. That's where you see the people who have a heart
who are caring. You talk to them. You see them eye to eye, they make eye contact, you make
friends and keep them. I can't tell you how many friends I have that are true friends not just
because we met them and they are Rwandan. They call you and ask you how you are doing and
is everything okay. That is something you do not see when you're outside of this country and I
remember coming to Chicago and I was like Chicago they say that you walk in the street and
they shoot you. That's what you see in these movies. You know you see the movies or you have
bad feelings about everything because they don't show that to people. In Africa they show you
the people that are dying from the HIV, people dying from wars, people dying from hunger they
don't show you the normal people which I use in quotes "normal people." We have people that
go to work every day who are working in their land, taking care of their families and people who
have Ph.D.'s. We have a life like everybody else. In every country there is the highs and the
lows. There is the rich and the poor. So we have those people no matter where you go.
Probably not on the same level but we do have it. I wish there was something I could do and tell
these people, show something nice like it is. Show something more positive and not to
discourage people. People come to me and they have said in Africa have you seen a lion? And I
said I don't live in the jungle because that's what they're being told. Africa is just like a big
jungle. Come on, no. It's not a jungle. Or how did you get here? Did you go to Africa for a
weekend? It's like people, where have you been? I don't know if they're being psychotic. I don't
know if they're just being ignorant. I don't know if they want to know.
AM: One thing shocked me when I came to this country is the homeless population. It really
does shock me. I still can't believe this is one of the richest countries in the world but you still
see people struggling. Hungry, they don't take showers. They don't have anywhere to stay. One
time I had an experience that shocked me. I didn't have lunch and I sat down at Mc Donald's. I
think that it was the last time that I went to McDonald's maybe two years ago and I bought food;
I think it was a chicken sandwich and French fries so I don't eat that much French fries. I ate
half and I put half back in the bag and I was coming back from lunch going back into the
business and I had a brown bag with my sandwich and I threw it in the trash can and as I was
going to open the door. I see this man he came and he grabbed the sandwich and he ate and I
was like I was shocked I didn't know what to say. And I talked to the lady and she said they say
people do that. I was so shocked that there is so much food, so much big containers of food. So
much big stores but these people don't have. It just doesn't make sense to me.
�HC: [Interviewer shares her opinion about the homeless problem.]
AM: One time I was joking and I said some of these people have a mental health problem and
can't put themselves together but it is a job that you can give to them, that is productive, you can
make them feel they are contributing to their own society. Everybody who is working we pay
for these people to stay in shelters, we pay tax but they should do something you don't need to be
a scientist to pick up litter on the street. You don't need to be a scientist to wash windows you
know. I think they need to find some programs. Maybe I have totally different views because I
am from a different country but sometimes I wish I just had power to put these people to work
and I think it is the way we approach them. They are human beings like me and we all need to
respect each other. I have a job today but who knows what can happen tomorrow and some of
these people are smart people who just may be made the wrong choice in their life. If I am in a
situation where I don't have a job today I'm not going to come to you and say can you give me
money. Can you give me a job even if I have to come clean your house? You can pay me that
makes sense to me because I am working and I'm earning my money. Then just to come and say
can I have money.
HC: [Interviewer talks more about her views on homelessness].
HC: What has been the best part about moving here?
AM: I think the best part of the whole thing in moving here is a peace. The last time I left my
country I had no peace at all and I remember having nightmares and sleep again and I had a
friend running. I thought it was like a helicopter. This trauma goes on but finally when you can
close your eyes and sleep is the best feeling. When you know you are doing something that is
supposed to be done. You're not doing something illegal, you're fine. Peace is number one.
HC: What has been the hardest or most disappointing part of moving here?
AM: The hardest was when my husband couldn't find a job and he had biology and chemistry
and he couldn't find a job and I was thinking how intelligent he is. I think for my husband was
harder to take than myself because I can very much manage to any situation. If you put me in a
situation where maybe I have to eat rice every day I probably will survive. Or if I don't have to
eat a meal every day I probably will survive but I think it's by nature we manage more easily
than a man because the man sees himself as the head of the household and you have to provide
for the family. When you can't provide these you feel like you are not a man. You have this ego
and pride. Women just go with the flow and we adapt ourselves so easily. Men usually don't
talk about their problems but women connect everywhere. I can talk to about my problems
because we build up trust in each other and we relate to each other. We don't have pride that we
want to protect so you know is there anyone that can do this for me I'm happy to let me know.
But men don't believe that they think I am not a man. So I think it was a hard for my husband to
take. He couldn't provide like he used to. I think that was hardest for him to.
HC: What do you miss most about your former home?
�AM: I miss my family. I was one of 13 children but I miss them tremendously. I miss going
with them, just having fun. I do remember that we had nicknamed dad. So we had a nickname
for him and we would talk about him and he would never know that it was him. So that's one of
the things I missed my siblings so much and sometimes I feel like I just want to move the world
to see them again. So that has been the hardest. I don't really miss so much the country because
the last time I left it wasn't so great and I don't have good memories. The last memories I had
weren’t so great. So you see what I'm saying some of these people took my family and took
their lives away so I don't miss the country, I miss the people, my family, yeah, I do.
HC: And you were one of how many children?
AM: 13, yeah.
HC: Have you gone home to visit since you moved here?
AM: No, I have not.
HC: Do you think you will spend the rest of your life here?
AM: Not really. No I don't see myself aging in this country. I think aging is hard. I see myself
maybe going back home because I am trying to have a closure and I think starting this
organization was more I just had to do something good and just get a good example because
there are people like me that want to change the world just by doing a small thing. I'm not seeing
myself as famous or something but I am seeing myself as changing the world or changing
somebody's life, providing a need for these kids so that's what I'm doing.
HC: Do you think you will go back to Rwanda?
AM: Most definitely yes. I don't miss it generally but I miss my brothers and sisters.
HC: If you have children, which you do, what you want them to know about your culture from
your homeland?
AM: I want to tell them that this is a tragic moment because I won't be able to tell them the truth.
I won't be able to explain to them why they do not have grandparents. I want to explain to them
why you are here. I need to be able to tell them the truth. I don't want to confuse them but then I
need to teach them forgiveness. Because it's very important that people know how to forgive.
The things that happen in our life owes to the time we have no control we do have control about
our behavior so if you don't control yourself there is no way to improve your life and I try so
hard to teach them about the culture. We do eat and cook sometimes the way we do at home. I
play the music. I have so many things from my country so I always remind them that I speak the
language because I want to be able one day to go back. I don't want to say no don't go back. I
want them to go back. I want them to speak the language. I want them to go to villages and
speak to their uncles if they are still living, speak to their cousins. I want to find out really who
they are. When they asked us if we wanted to change names we said no because changing the
name is like saying I don't want to be who I am. I want to be who I am and I am proud. I'm not
�afraid to say who I am. Maybe some people want to say they don't have anything to do with
their country, I do; it's my country. I am the same as somebody that is in the country right now.
We have the same rights. So it's my country, I have the name, I belong to this country.
HC: What you like to do for fun?
AM: I like to listen to music I like to take road trips. I'd just like to drive. Like one time I said to
my husband I think you don't have vacation but I don't think we should suffer from that. We are
going to go somewhere. So we made sure we had food and we said can you rent a car for us and
he did and we went to Canada. I think that was the most amazing idea and I was so proud of
myself. So I drove so many hours. We went to Toronto with the children and we have the best
time. We miss him but then we didn't because we were having so much fun. He kept calling me
and I said stop checking on me. I'm fine. It was interesting just to go because I didn't feel like
because he's home he is working that we are on vacation we don't have to be stuck. It was fine
with him and it was fine with us so he said okay we are going. He's like have fun.
HC: [Interviewer shares her experiences with road trips].
HC: Are you a naturalized citizen?
AM: Yes, I am.
HC: What has been the most difficult thing to adjust to with American culture?
AM: Halloween. I not home on Halloween Day.
HC: Do your children participate in Halloween?
AM: No. They do want to but I said no sorry kids you are still under my roof I can't do that
thing. That's one thing I find about this country people take for granted what they have.
Halloween is an interesting holiday because of where it started and what it represents.
Because of Halloween it's actually the day that people die so I can't see how you can have fun
with that. I don't see why we should have the day. So for me it's a sad day because it kind of
reminds me of family members that I lost. How should I have that evil representing? I think if it
was the day that kids just got free candy it wouldn't bother me but what bothers me is what
comes up with, the darker side of it. I just don't like it. I just don't do the witchcraft. So the first
time I said to my husband look what these people have in their windows. I think that was the
most shocking thing Halloween. I can’t adjust.
HC: Do you celebrate other holidays that you see in American culture and are there others that
you celebrate for your culture?
AM: Not really. We have Independence Day. We do Christmas; we do Pentecost, Labor Day.
We actually have a Woman’s Day but here we don't do it.
HC: Is woman's Day kind of like Labor Day?
�AM: It's more like Mother's Day. I think I could say it's close to Mother's Day. It's Woman’s
Day but it's more like Mother's Day. They give value to women. How women work and how
they take care of their children and how women don't get credit for what they are doing. So it's
more like Mother's Day.
HC: How do you feel about the current debate in this country about immigration?
AM: I can't say because I came here as an immigrant and I came here legally. I don't believe
people should just come in to the country. They should go to the process and everyone goes
through. I don't believe it's not fair for some people. If you want to be in this country it doesn't
give you the right to come in. Don't force to come in. If people come here as legal they should
just be responsible. When I think about it, it sometimes kind of makes me mad because there is
the brother of mine that I have been trying to get here in a legal way and to get a visa and then
you see all these people here. If you come to this country legally you just have to go through the
process. What the law requires. What they do is up to the government but that's where I stand
and I think people should apply to go through the process like everybody else.
�
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Alene Munyemana
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Alene Munyemana
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
August 28, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Alene Munyemana was born in Rwanda. She came to the United States as a refugee in 1997 and to Rockford, Illinois in 2003.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Kaare Nevdal
Interviewed May 31, 2007
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Holli Connell: Could you state your first and last name please.
Kaare Nevdal: Kaare Nevdal.
HC: And Kaare are you married?
KN: Yes.
HC: And your wife's name?
KN: Muriel.
HC: Do you and your wife have any children?
KN: Yes, we have three children.
HC: And their names?
KN: The oldest is Karen Nelson and the next one is Sandra Rogers and our son is Mark.
HC: Do you have an educational background and what is that?
KN: My background is that I was educated in Norway then we were in the war. I was the radio
officer so I went to gunnery school and then coming here without any education I had some
training in engineering and I worked at Ingersoll Milling Machine Company in the engineering
department there for a number of years and then I went into the insurance business and there I
got my CLU degree which is charter life underwriter and in order to get in the College of Life
Underwriters you had to prove that you had a high school education.
So I wrote to Norway and asked if I could have a transcript of my school and I got it and it was
even translated to English and I sent that to the College and they wrote back they couldn't decide
from it so they sent it into the Department of Health and Education and the Health and Education
Department wrote back that it was a high school dropout in seventh grade and the good thing
about it was that nobody at Ingersoll engineering department knew that I was a dropout. So then
before I could get into the College of Underwriting I had to take the GED test and now I guess
you can go to school and learn how to take it but there was no school in those days. I just went
to the Board of Education and sat down and took it and that came out in 98% of those who took
the exams each year so I guess that policy is I have a high school education. I always thought I
had more like some college.
HC: Now some things that I discussed with other interviewees is in Norway it was different than
here. You completed an eighth grade schooling is what they called it and I think, again one of
the other people I talked to said it sounds different than here where in the United States you have
grade school, junior high and high school but in Norway the education is an eighth grade level is
what they say but really it's a high school diploma. So that's interesting.
�KN: In my case I went to school for seven years and then you were done and that's all you
needed but so I went to work and worked for a year and a half or two years than I went back to
school and that was a three-year school but I went to a private school where you could do it in
two years so I finished the three-year course in two years. So I had a total of nine years but it
should be 10 because I did three years work in two years and I even had good grades.
HC: Are you retired now?
KN: Yes, many years.
HC: And where are you from?
KN: I am from a small town called Ytre Arna outside of Bergen, Norway but now it's been
swallowed by Bergen. It's part of Bergen, Norway now but when I grew up it was an hour bus
ride into Bergen so that's where I grew up.
HC: And when did you come to the United States?
KN: 1948.
HC: And did you specifically come to Rockford or anywhere else?
KN: No, Rockford.
HC: May I get your birthday please.
KN: October 9, 1920.
HC: Why did you decide to come to Rockford?
KN: That's a long story.
HC: I have three hours.
KN: I would almost have to tell you then when I lived in Norway the war broke out and the
Germans invaded Norway in 1940 and when I lived there I was 19 years old. I lived there than
so after one year under the occupation I escaped with a bunch of other guys in a fishing boat
across the North Sea to England and the Norwegian government was already there and the king
was there and they had formed an Air Force, Navy and Army and the money that they needed to
keep that going they received from the Norwegian Merchant Marine which was sailing all over
the world. The exile government confiscated the fleet and all the money that they generated was
used by the government for, among other things, to provide for the military.
So then they sent me to Toronto, Canada to train for the Air Force and while I was training there
I came to Rockford to visit my aunt and uncle even before Pearl Harbor I was there in September
of 1941 and then I came back again December the same year before I went overseas and I liked
�Rockford very much and I said to myself that if I survive the war and for some reason I am not
going to live in Norway I sure would like to live in Rockford. So the rest of the story is while I
was training in Toronto I met a young lady and I said goodbye to her in 1942 and went overseas
and flew with the Air Force in Europe and then when the war was over 1945 I wrote to her and
asked her if she would come to Norway and we would get married because I had a job with the
Norwegian Airlines after the war and she came. So then we were going to stay in Norway. I had
a good job of the housing situation was so bad we had to stay in a hotel in Oslo and my family
was in Bergen and then she got pregnant. After she was pregnant we can't have a baby living in
a hotel so we decided we would have to leave so we went to Canada so we came to Toronto,
stayed there for one year and like I said before I always liked Rockford so I came down here on a
visit and check out things and my cousin and my family here wanted me to come. I was anxious
so we came down here in 1948. So that's what happened.
HC: Was your son or daughter born in Canada?
KN: Our daughter was born in Toronto. My next daughter and my son were born here.
So we had a very difficult beginning with her coming over here from there and not able to speak
Norwegian. Most people in those days did not speak English so they didn't think this marriage
was going to last but it's going to be 62 years now in December.
HC: Speaking of the language barrier than, when you came to Rockford to stay you and your
family. You spoke English?
KN: No, not very much. I had a little English but the first guy who hired me in the insurance
business he said don't ever lose your accent and I haven't lost it.
HC: And what about your wife she didn't speak English either?
KN: She's from Canada. As a matter of fact she became Norwegian when she married me see so
she came in as a Norwegian and we had been there a little while and she gets a phone call from
the Board of Education inviting her to come to learn English and she said something to them
well I'm not so sure I need to learn to learn English. The truth is she sounded like a corn fed girl
from Iowa, the middle of Illinois.
HC: So did she help you learn English?
KN: No question about it she helped me a lot because we spoke English between us always. But
she lived in Norway long enough to pick up a little Norwegian. In fact she's pretty good at it. So
we only spoke Norwegian when our kids were around and we didn't want them to know what we
were talking about because we could converse but no she is very good in English. She helped
me.
HC: Your children, they didn't learn Norwegian in the home than, you spoke English and that's
what they learned when they grew up here?
�KN: Yes and then they corrected me. I was reading Bible stories to them and I said “Bengamin”
and my daughter said it’s not Bengamin it’s Benjamin. Whatever I said wrong they corrected me
which helped me.
HC: What did you do before you came here, what was your job in Norway?
KN: Well at that time I had just finished school the second time I was back two years and I took
a job at a factory. There was a textile factory there and I had a notion of maybe becoming a
textile engineer but then came the Germans and that took care of that. So I worked in a factory
until I escaped a year after they came so that's what I was doing, factory work at that time while I
was holding my own.
HC: What was your life like them in Norway before the invasion?
KN: Before the invasion, life was very good in so many ways but we didn't have material things
to speak of but I thought we lived very well and the family situation was good even though I lost
my mother when I was five years old but we were five children but we got a wonderful
stepmother when I was 12 and two more brothers and there was no difference between us and till
this day there is no difference so I had a very good family, very good family life. So that part
was fine but in Norway we weren’t well to do. Nobody was in those days. Today they are rich
over there because they found oil some 20 or 30 years ago and now they are living today they
say it's the best in the world. I don't see how they could live any better but growing up it wasn't
easy but because of the family life we had a good life.
HC: You had been to this country before you actually move to Rockford?
KN: Yes.
HC: You had been here to visit family when you were in Canada?
KN: Yes.
HC: How long did it take you to make arrangements to come and live in Rockford while you
were in Canada with your wife?
KN: I can't tell you just exactly but it didn't take very long. I would say a matter of no more than
three months.
HC: When you left Norway to come to Canada how did you travel?
KN: I flew.
HC: And your wife as well?
KN: What happened was when we decided because she was pregnant and the housing situation I
tried to book passage for us to go but we couldn't get on a plane for months because there were
�so few planes and so many business people. There wasn't any tourism at that time. So I couldn't
get a ticket anywhere and then I told my boss with the airlines one day I said to him you know
I'm going to quit because of the housing situation and we’re going to go to Canada. Oh no, he
says I need you here he says okay I will make a deal with you if you can get my wife over, pay
the ticket and get her over I will stay for six months; a few days later he arranged it so she flew
back to New York and from New York to Toronto and then six months later than I told him I
have been here so now I'm leaving. What they promised me and everybody else was they were
going to build apartments and we were going to be right there at the top of the list but nothing
happens in that six months so that's when I decided I was going to go too so I left and they even
paid half my fare when I left. I worked it out good so that's what happened.
HC: Now when you were in the war you were fighting for who?
KN: The allies. British, Americans.
HC: And what did you do?
KN: I was what you call a radio gunner. I was in the plane I was on the radio for one hour and
than I would go in the top turret in the airplane and I was there for an hour, then in a raider booth
for an hour. You see we were out there 10 or 12 hours at a time and our job most of the time I
was there was to chase submarines in the north Atlantic.
HC: And when World War II was over you went to Scandinavian air and worked there?
KN: Yeah. Then it was flying as the radio officer all over Europe.
HC: So when you moved to Canada after six months you came over to work in Canada before
Rockford?
KN: Oh yes
HC: And what was that again?
KN: What I did?
HC: Yes
KN: What I could find. First I worked in a shop making oil burners and the funny thing was that
shop was owned by a Norwegian woman but I never met her. I never saw her; she never saw me
and all the people who worked there were Polish and spoke Polish. So I worked there for a while
and then I got a job with a company making stoves and my job was on the assembly line making
electric burners for the stoves so I was there for a while and that was it and then I left and came
here.
HC: And how did you travel from Canada to Rockford?
�KN: That's a long story too. You know today when I think about it they talk about legal
immigrants. Do you want to hear how I got here? It took less than three months to get the
papers than the last time we were down there they gave me the paper and said all you have to do
is stop in at the immigration office downtown before you go like a performer it sounded like so
the next day the day before when we were going to take the train and come to Rockford we go
down there in the office, immigration office and we were sitting there looking at the papers and
everything and they go back to their office and I looked over everybody behind there were
sticking their heads together and they called me over and they said you came through Canada on
Scandinavian Airlines? I said yes. You landed in Halifax? I said yes. Well we have a problem.
I said what's the problem? At that time Scandinavian Airlines had not signed what was called the
Atlantic Agreement and the law says that anyone who comes with the carrier whether it be in an
airplane, a ship through Canada without having a signed agreement those passengers have to stay
in Canada for one year before they can enter the United States. So I said well I'm stuck then. I'm
not going to stay for another year so I said I can't enter from here can I enter from Mexico? Oh
yeah. Can I enter from England? You can enter from anywhere except you cannot enter from
Canada. Well than I can enter from Norway? He said yes. I said okay so I went home and right
then I made up my mind well I'm going to go to Norway somehow and I said to Muriel I know
what I'm going to do I'm going to go down to Montréal, I didn't have any money, I'm going to go
down to Montréal and there are a lot of Norwegian ships there and I am going to get my self a
job on a ship and I will work my way to Norway and I have some money over there that I
couldn't take with me and some of the airline owed me had put in a bank for me and I said then I
will buy my ticket and come back to Canada and then you can come from Toronto by train up to
Rockford. I will go right to Rockford and you will come up and we will meet in Rockford. My
father-in-law thought I was crazy but he drove me down to the station and I took off at night and
went down to Montréal and I called a friend of mine who lived there who had been in the Air
Force with me and he said oh my wife is away you can stay here so I stayed with him a few days
and I went down to the docks and looked for Norwegian ships and I went to all the taverns and
looked for sailors and wherever I came I got the same answer. There were no ships going to
Norway they were all going to the continent of Europe and India and South America. And so
after awhile I had to give up. So I called my cousin in Rockford to tell him that because we were
in touch the whole time so I called and told them what happened and he said are you broke
would you fly and I said yeah but I haven't got any money for that and he said how much does it
cost? I said $300. I'll send you the money he said and within two hours I had $400 from him
and my buddy he says it's nice to have a family like that and I said yeah it sure is.
So then he took me down to the airline and in those days it was hard to fly, to plan months ahead.
I came down there and asked how soon I could get a ticket to Norway over England and they
started talking about a month from now, six weeks and I said oh I want to go sooner than that
and they came a little closer and I said I want to go sooner than that and they said there's a plane
going this evening and I said that's the one I want. They thought I was going to try to escape
from somebody. I got my ticket and got on board and flew to England, changed planes there and
then to Oslo Norway. I went to the bank, got my money, went to the airlines, two months went
to another airline the same. They were just loaded and there was no place so that I went up to the
Scandinavian Airline office and one of the guys was a big shot there we flew together during the
war so I went to him and said you know this is a lousy airline you're working for you didn't sign
an agreement and I’m stuck. I had to come all the way here to the United States. Can you help
�me? Sure he says. Why don't you go see your family in Bergen and come back and let me know
so I went to see my folks and my family and came back and two days later he fixed me up. So I
came to the United States and I sat there in a plane before we landed and I said this is so crazy
somebody is going to be suspicious the way this is going. So I was nervous and we landed and
the guy looked at the paper and he shoves it in a drawer and he said you are going to Rockford
and I said yes. Hope you like it there and I said yes. He never knew where it came from or
anything so I could have come from Canada no one would have known it. The whole trip was
unnecessary. Just what you call red tape.
Not only that when I went from Oslo to Bergen to see my folks I went out to the airport and talk
to my old boss and I said I need to go to Bergen how about giving me a free trip to Bergen for
old times sake. He said oh I think we can fix that but I have to check with headquarters and I
said okay. Just sit around I will check with them. So I'm sitting there waiting and then came the
crew and they were going to go on board the airplane and it was a flying boat that I had been
flying hours and hours on before and they said we’re going now and you better come with us and
I said I'm waiting for, and they said come on. So I go down there and the captain says you just
follow me and I go behind the guy who's controlling the tickets and everything and went to the
plane and went up and sat down in my seat, take my jacket off and sit there and somebody called
hollering my name and I didn't answer and one of the crew says they know you were up there so
I had to come down into the dispatcher's office and he said there is a telephone call for you so I
pick up the phone and the guy from headquarters said Mr. Nevdal we have decided you can have
a free trip the only thing you have to pay for is the insurance and I said well that's fine and I said
thank you very much and you better tell the dispatcher so I handed the phone to the dispatcher
and he said yeah, yeah okay and he hung up and he said the only problem is the plane is full we
have no seats. So I said is there any weight problem. No we have plenty of room as far as
weight. I've been standing in that airplane so many times I can stand up to Bergen and the
captain looked so we let him do that and without saying anything they agreed. I hopped on
board. It helped to have connections.
The reason my wife didn't have to do that because remember she went first and she flew to New
York. She didn't land in Canada and then she flew from New York into camp. She was not
affected by the Atlantic Agreement. It was only me. So anyway I got here at a few days later
there she came with our daughter.
HC: You had an aunt and uncle in Rockford did any family come here after you?
KN: No. Visiting but not to stay.
HC: After you and your wife came here you had mentioned the jobs. What was your first job
again?
KN: Ingersoll Milling. I started out as a pipe fitter and worked as a pipe fitter for 2 1/2 years and
then they put me up in the engineering department and I was there for another eight years so I
was there for 10 or 11 years.
HC: Where did you live when he first came to Rockford?
�KN: I lived on the northwest side in a small house that my cousin and his partner built and sold
to me.
HC: And how long did you live there?
KN: I lived there five years and then we moved to the northeast.
HC: In a home as well?
KN: Yes and we were there for 34 years.
HC: And was that something you owned?
KN: Yes.
HC: And did your cousin also build it?
KN: No. We bought one.
HC: How different was your first home here compared to how you lived or the living conditions
in Norway?
KN: It wasn't much different in my first home, no.
KN: How about the second home?
HC: The second home had more room and we were a smaller family with more room so it was
better than what I had there.
HC: With your children they went to school here in Rockford then?
KN: Yes.
HC: Were you insistent on education with them or was that a big part for them to continue
education? Once you came here and you and your wife are building a family was education
important?
KN: Oh yes.
HC: And did you become a citizen?
KN: Yes, as soon as I could.
HC: And your wife as well?
KN: Oh yes.
�HC: When you got here where did you see yourself in five years?
KN: I don't know but I worked hard. I worked a lot of jobs. I did whatever I could do to get
through. That's the thing about being here that you can do so many things and when I worked in
the engineering department at Ingersoll I remember the chief engineer asked me into his office
and reviewing my work and he gave me a raise and I said thank you very much now I can quit
some of my part-time work and he says you do part-time work? I says yeah. He says what do
you do? I sell insurance and I mow lawns and then I work in a laundry, working a laundry I
threw that in, that was with my cousin. I was working there but not for pay. I was helping my
cousin because he started a Laundromat so I was helping him but I did sell insurance and I
mowed lawns on the side. So I worked hard and that's why after five years we could move into a
bigger home. Yeah.
HC: Did you integrate yourself into the community through any organizations or churches or
anything like that when you were here?
KN: Yeah, church right away.
HC: And what church?
KN: Our Savior's Lutheran. I got very much involved there and still am very much involved and
that was very meaningful to us. Later I was very active in Rockford Kiwanis Club. I‘ve been
past president. I've been a member there for 42 years and I was very much involved in the
insurance industry. I was teaching insurance guys at Rock Valley College CLU which was the
degree you could obtain and I was teaching that and I was teaching business insurance and
another group. So I have been involved in a lot of things.
HC: But the church was the first one that you and your wife were involved in?
KN: Yes.
HC: Did you meet people from Norway at that church or people that you might've known?
KN: I've met some but more importantly I integrated because I didn't come here to be with
Norwegians I came here to be with Americans. Of course the church was a Norwegian
background but it isn't anymore because we have integrated. It was started by immigrants but
there are fewer and fewer immigrants coming. As a matter of fact I can only think recently in
our church now I think that two of us may be three who came from Norway.
HC: Is that on Rural Street?
KN: Yeah.
HC: They have the large pipe organ?
�KN: Yes.
HC: Interviewer shares her story about going to an organ concert there.
HC: Were you involved in any political actions here, I mean once you were able to vote, did
stuff like that?
KN: I never miss the vote but I have been really involved. I've given money to them but I'm not
a member of a party or at least one of the parties I think I am.
HC: Politically from Norway to here did that change at all how you were politically involved?
KN: Norway to here? Yes, maybe not. The system in Norway I lived under it but I was not
really in agreement with it. It was more socialistic. It wasn't exactly socialistic but it was
borderline socialistic and I wasn't for that. Here I am a conservative in most areas but not in
everything. I know we have to live together and all that so I'm not a hardliner but I tend to be
free enterprise and as a matter of fact the thing when I came here people would say to me was
how do you like America? You know that was the first question I got for the first three or four
years, how do you like America they have nice cars. Everyone was so car conscious and I said
cars are nice but there are other things that are more important to me and the thing that I found
has been important to me is the freedom, the freedom that we have in the United States. Some of
it has been eroded but the freedom when I came to be whatever you want to be. In the old
country's you didn't have that but here you do. In the old country not only Norway it was very
important who was your dad, what did he do you know, your pedigree. Here they don't ask you
just go ahead and do what you can do and the other thing was to have papers to prove that you
can do this or that. Here you don't need papers. They just let you loose and do what you can do.
Matter of fact when I worked at Ingersoll the best engineers there, some of the best had no
engineering degree and the chief engineer he told me that. So that is the freedom that you have
here and that's a big difference and that's because of the policies so politically I favor the system
here much better than in Europe.
HC: How were you treated when you came here?
KN: Very well, very well.
HC: And did you have neighbors at your first house?
KN: Yes. We got along very fine, no problem. From day one I've been received with all my
accent and everything, I was so well accepted on the job or in the neighborhoods, where ever I
have been. They tease me a lot like in Kiwanis I will never get away from being Norwegian and
I have been there 42 years because every meeting somehow something comes up and they will
tease me a little bit but I love it. They wouldn't do it if they didn't care see.
HC: Are you a naturalized citizen?
KN: Oh yeah
�HC: Was there anything that was difficult to adjust to?
KN: Valentine's Day. For me to adjust I haven't adjusted to it yet.
HC: Were you nervous or your wife and all with the decision to move down here at first?
I know you were excepted once you were here but were you nervous at all?
KN: No. We were both very happy to come. She grew up in Canada but she has always admired
the United States and she was very happy to come here even though she was happy in Canada
too but there was no problem.
HC: When you actually came here you mention cars did you have a vehicle when you got here?
KN: No. I don't know how long it was first few months I didn't have one and then I bought for
my cousin’s dad’s car so that was my first one.
HC: What was that?
KN: I think it was a 37 Chevy coupe and I fixed it up. It hadn't been out of town for many years
and I drove up to Toronto Canada 620 miles with my kids in the back in the coupe but it worked
out fine.
HC: Is there anything else you think of that you want to add reflection of what it was like to be
here to come here to America. You had some wonderful stories.
KN: No, the only thing is how thankful I am for this country. First of all you know I lost my
country there for a while Norway was occupied. I had no idea if I would ever get back to
Norway when I was in exile because it looked like Hitler was going to win. Then came Pearl
Harbor and I was in Toronto, Canada in training when that happened and that I knew that now
the United States would come in and that's the only way that we can win the war over the
Germans is with United States help and that's what happened so I am forever grateful to the
Americans, to all the soldiers when I think of all of those who lost their lives, plus we had a
reason to fight because we had been taken but the Americans went way over there and fought, I
am forever thankful for them and for the United States. I am so thankful for what the country
has done for me. I will be until the dying day.
HC: Were you able to visit your family once you've established life here in Rockford?
KN: Yeah, the first time I went back I had been here nine years and I got such a feeling that I
had to see my dad and my mom and my uncle had just died and I thought that could've been my
dad because he was older so I could afford it. I had the money but there was all kinds of other
stuff we needed. But having a good wife as I did she realized that it was important to me and I
went home to visit them after I had been gone nine years that was 1957 and have a wonderful
time there for two weeks and then in 1965 I was able to take my whole family over before my
dad died and he died the following year and that was really the highlight of my life as far as I
�was concerned and I took the three kids. My oldest had just graduated from high school and the
others were younger and then we flew over and that was because my hard work my family didn't
even know that I had been putting away money and putting away money apart from everything
else and I had the money and the ticket and away we went. So that was great and since then later
when the kids were gone my wife and I went over several times since and I have been by myself
now the last few times and all my siblings have been here visiting me once or twice. So it's been
good.
HC: Has your wife been up to see her family as well then?
KN: Oh yeah. Went back and forth all the time. Nowadays she only has one brother left there
but I had three brothers and sister in Norway. We talk every month at least and now we are have
a computer and it's much easier. I've read the Norwegian newspaper on the computer every day.
My hometown newspaper so things are so much easier now than when we first came here.
HC: When you communicated when you first came here was it just letters?
KN: Just letters. Talking on the phone was very expensive in those days.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Kaare Nevdahl
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kaare Nevdahl
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
May 31, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Kaare Nevdahl grew up in Norway. He immigrated to Canada before coming to the United States and to Rockford, Illinois in 1948.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Marjorie Peterson
Interviewed by Jean Seager
For Midway Village Museum
7/18/2007
�Marge Peterson: My name is Marjorie Peterson.
Jean Seager: And are you married?
MP: Yes I am.
JS: And your husband's name?
MP: My husband's name is John.
JS: And do you have children?
MP: Yes. I have two sons and a daughter.
JS: And what are their names?
MP: We have our oldest son is Tom, and the middle son whom no one ever knows we
have is Jim, and the youngest one is their sister Jane.
JS: And your older son is in Cheap Trick.
MP: Yes he is.
JS: He's a member of that. And where do you work or volunteer?
MP: I volunteer at the Museum Center. It's the only volunteering really I've done for
many years.
JS: The name of the Museum? Midway Village?
MP: Midway Village. They used to call it just RMC, Rockford Museum Center. I always
have to stop and think that it's Midway Village and Museum Center.
JS: And how long have you been here?
MP: I was here when they opened in 1974 so I think I was probably working here in 1973
to get ready for the opening.
JS: What did you do before that? Were you employed?
MP: Oh I’ve employed at various things throughout the years. The last thing I was
employed at before I came to the Museum was the Spring Creek school librarian and
before that I've been a secretary and typist, all kinds of things like that.
�JS: Where are you from?
MP: I was born in Kankakee, Illinois. Came to Rockford when I was four years old.
JS: And why did you come here? Was your father. . .
MP: My father got a job here and we had lived in, after Kankakee we'd moved back to
Fond du Lac where they had gotten married originally. My father moved around a lot
with jobs. He was a baker and he was always looking for one that paid him more I
suppose. I never really asked him why he moved so much unless I think he just liked it. I
think he liked the challenge of a new spot. So they moved back to Fond du Lac and then
they moved to Beloit for a very short time and then, then he got a job in Rockford so we
moved to Rockford and stayed there ever since.
JS: And you said he's from what country?
MP: He's from Germany. Muhlheim, Germany. He was born there and raised there and
he, he learned to be a baker in Cologne, Germany. He grew up without a mother. His
father put him in a boarding school home. He always told me he was an orphan but he
really wasn't. His father was living. I think he liked to dramatize that part of his life
because it was not a very pleasant time in his life I understood. But I think he was in a
Lutheran boarding school, he and his older brother, because his mother had died when he
was an infant and then they, he was sent as an apprentice to Cologne, Germany to, in the
baking trade which is what he learned to be. He was a pastry chef and a master baker and
a decorator when he finished with his education which took three years.
JS: Why do you think he came to the United States?
MP: Well, he probably never admitted it really, but I think that he, he wanted to get
away. He didn't really have much of a family. He was on his own and I think they were
drafting people into the Army in Germany at the time and so he got a job on a ship that
traveled between Germany and the United States, East Coast of the United States, and it
docked in 1908 and I think that he jumped ship in 1909, illegally, and he never contacted
his family for many years. And the only reason I can figure that out is because he would
have been arrested, because he jumped ship, and that was illegal for him to do that. And
he was an illegal immigrant in this country until 1917 when he got his citizenship in
Danbury, Connecticut.
JS: Where, that’s, on the East Coast you said is where he jumped ship?
MP: Pardon?
JS: On the East Coast of the United States is where he jumped ship?
MP: Yes, yes, he got off in New Jersey, Hoboken, New Jersey.
�JS: And how did he get all the way up to Rockford?
MP: He moved around a lot. He wasn't married until he was 34. He came to this country
when he was 19 so he had a lot of years to try all kinds of jobs and move around. He went
to Minnesota and he was in Chicago and then he was in Connecticut for quite awhile and
he just moved back and forth forever wherever he felt like getting a job.
JS: Had he ever been here before, in this country?
MP: In this country, no, he was the only member his family at that time really too.
JS: So he was by himself when he jumped ship?
MP: He was by himself, yes, he was alone.
JS: And did he live on the East Coast for a while before?
MP: Yes I think he lived in New Jersey according to the postcards and things I've seen of
his papers. He lived in New Jersey and in the New York area. I don't know about New
York City specifically, but he lived in New Jersey I know for some time and back and
forth in that area.
JS: Did he know anybody?
MP: There were a lot of foreigners landing in the United States at that time so I think the
matter, the fact that he didn't speak English was not a detriment to him then because there
were so many foreigners then, on the East Coast particularly, that he didn't have any
trouble with that and he was pretty much of a loner. He did his own thing. He was here
by himself and he did what he wanted.
JS: Then nobody was here to help him then?
MP: No, no one helped him. He was all alone, learned the language.
JS: He was an only child you said?
MP: No, he had actually, his family history is a little bit fuzzy to me. He had a brother
who is two years older, was in the boarding school with him, and I think he had a half
brother who was grown and had an auto agency in Cologne and he had two sisters and
I've never been really sure if they were full sisters or half-sisters because when he was a
child they were married with families. And I got the impression that his mother had been
married before and those were either his children before or hers before and these two
young boys were the last before she died. So I've never have gotten that figured out.
JS: Did he try to make any contact with them after he left?
�MP: After he came to this country, no, he obviously did not. Except that there is a small
amount of correspondence, like postcards, from people in Germany which surprised me
because he did not contact his family until the 1920s, until after the war was over.
JS: Did your father stay in the baking business?
MP: Yes, he has always been a baker, very hard working baker, and very talented baker.
You don't see men like him anymore. Beautiful cake decorator and pastry chef.
JS: Germans are noted for that.
MP: Yes. He was very good at what he did and extremely hard worker. I mean his hours
were always terrible, our meals were always at odd hours because he went to work at two
in the morning and you know was, came home at two in the afternoon.
JS: Did your mother work with him at all?
MP: Thad a bakery of their own on Kishwaukee Street in Rockford for a short time when
I was a teenager and they also had one on Broadway when I was in first grade so what
would I have been? Six or seven. And the really unusual thing about that is that it was on
Broadway and 8th St, kitty corner from the furniture store that used to be there and right
directly across the street was an apartment building with a clothing store on the main
floor and that belonged to my husband's father. Of course I didn't know him then, I didn't
know the family, I didn't know anything about them, but that was rather unusual I thought
that he should turn up in my life that much later and it turns out that he was across the
street the whole time
JS: Where did you live when you were growing up?
MP: Well when he had the bakery on Broadway we lived in the hotel over it. I can
remember having measles and whooping cough in a hotel room because my mother was
downstairs helping my father with the bakery. And then we lived in a number of places,
several homes in Rockford before they finally purchased a home on 15th Street. And then
later one on the west side on Independence Avenue, and then after that they moved out of
town. I was grown by that time.
JS: You didn't live in that hotel that whole time?
MP: No, that was just for a short time and then we got an apartment and that worked out
a little bit better and I was a little bit older.
JS: Did you have brothers and sisters?
MP: No, I'm an only child.
JS: Were there, was your neighborhood kind of an ethnic area?
�MP: Mostly, wherever we lived it was because we lived on the east side of Rockford and
at that time the east side of Rockford was predominantly Swedish. So there is a lot of
Swedish immigrants and people with accents and people whose parents had come from
overseas. So that was, it wasn't unusual to be in immigrant or to be from another country.
There were a lot of people around us that were, not many German people that I remember
in our area, but an awful lot of Swedish people.
JS: Did they . . . well no, your mother is not German?
MP: Her father was German.
JS: Okay. Did they speak German in your home?
MP: No. My father never spoke German. My mother could understand it and she could
say a few phrases if she wanted to because her father was German but no, he never spoke
German. He of course was 35 when I was born so he'd been in this country a long time
and he didn't really, although he had a lot of German friends when he was younger after
he was married, he really didn't hang out with a lot of German young men like he did
younger. So no, he never made any point of speaking German at home. He taught me a
few German songs and that was about it. He didn’t make any. . .
JS: So English was your first language?
MP: English was my language and it was his also. In fact I didn't realize he had an
accent. I mean it didn't mean anything to me because I was so used to hearing him.
JS: Why do you suppose that was that he didn't speak any German?
MP: I don't think he was around any German people actually. When we lived on the east
side of Rockford we were surrounded by Swedish people, or Irish in some instances,
mostly Swedish, Norwegian, Swedish, whatever they were there were Scandinavians and
he didn't have anybody to speak German with.
JS: He didn't encourage you to learn the German?
MP: No he didn't and I'm kind of sorry about that. I think it would've been nice if I had
known the language. I can sing maybe one or two songs in German but that's about the
extent of it.
JS: The neighborhood language was probably English mixed with Swedish or something
like that?
MP: Yeah and then there are a couple different kinds of German languages too. There's
high German and low German and since he was from the Cologne area I think his
German was high German. I noticed that when I went over there that there was a
�different, two different languages. It surprised me because I never heard him say anything
about it. But figuring out where he had come from I figured that he'd spoken high
German.
JS: How much school did your father complete?
MP: Well in those days they went through what would be the equivalent of eighth grade
here, although I think they did it in fewer years because he was 14 when they apprenticed
him and he was through school at that time, just short of 14, but he had evidently an
extremely good education. It was a Lutheran boarding school and I think that they really
worked with them and he always knew Opera and classics and he was very versed in
literature and he was really quite intelligent and he did take some classes in the United
States later on when he was in Connecticut. I found some of his school papers and in
addition to studying for his citizenship I think he also went to a school and took a lot of
classes too.
JS: So you think he probably had a pretty good attitude toward school?
MP: Yes he enjoyed the fact that I was good in school and that I could read real well
because he was a reader. He'd love to read and that part was fine except it's funny that
when it got to the point where I was old enough to get out of school and go on with my
life, he was not one who advocated a girl having higher education, that I should get
married. And I think that's a foreign influence. He didn't push it but I think that was his
attitude and my mother was the one who pushed the idea of, you know, extra education
going on to school but he never pushed it and I was kind of surprised by that when I
thought about it later.
JS: Did you go to private school or public school?
MP: I want to Rockford public schools. I graduated from West High School. I went to the
Rockford High School until I was a senior and my folks have moved by that time. For
the first time they had moved from the East side to the West side, so my final year was on
the West side so I ended up graduating from West High School even though I had spent
all my life in the East side schools like Lincoln Junior High and Brown School which is
long gone. And. . .
JS: How did you feel about that?
MP: I didn't really think too much about it. I had friends in the neighborhood I live in
over their and by that time I was 14 or 15 and it didn't bother me too much, except it
came up surprisingly much later, after I married John and all his friends were Swedish
and came from the East side and had all graduated from East High School and graduating
from West High School seem like almost I was from another planet. It was kind of funny.
It's funny now but at the time it really irritated me. I was just a foreigner as far as they
were concerned. You know Swedish people were very strange about the other side of the
�river. Oh yes, I had a really good friend, my dearest, lifelong friend that lived in the
neighborhood and I grew up with. I was in her wedding, she was in my wedding, I was in
two of her weddings, and her mother always hesitated to let her come over and spend the
night with me after we moved to the West side. She sort of regarded it as Indian territory
I think or something. They really were, now those people were Swedes and they were
from the old country and they still spoke Swedish and so on and so I was surrounded by
people like that. So that was kind of interesting
JS: Did you go to church? Were you churchgoing people?
MP: My friend was and the church was right behind our house. A little old Lutheran
church and she was Lutheran and so she went and so I went with her.
JS: But not your family.
MP: My mother and father would go at the usual holiday, you know, Christmas, Easter,
that kind of thing and her parents were the same but the school [church sic.] was right
there so both of us were confirmed in a Lutheran church and my father had been
Lutheran, had been raised in a Lutheran boarding school, so, you know, it was fine with
him
JS: Did you go to college?
MP: I went one year, a year after I got out of high school. I worked for a year and then I
went for one year at the University of Mississippi
JS: Oh. Where’s that . . .
MP: Oxford.
JS: And you didn't stay?
MP: No I didn't stay. I thought it was, well it was
JS: That’s a long ways from Rockford.
MP: Yes. It was during the war and if you go to a school like that, at the time it had the
reputation of being the country club of the South. And I went there because I had a friend
who was a professor there. He had later, he was teaching there, he and his wife were
teaching there. And he had been the coach in the Rockford Park District and my friends
and I played tennis and I played on his tennis team and he said, you should go to my
school if you want to go to a college. You should go there because the out of state costs
are not bad and my wife and I will be there and we’ll look out for you and it would be a
good experience for you. So I thought, okay. So I worked for a year and saved enough
money and my folks paid for my tuition, I paid for my clothes and stuff and I went sailing
off to the University of Mississippi in Oxford.
�It was an education but not necessarily a school education. It was an education being in a
different part of the country, . . .
JS: A different culture.
MP: A totally different culture. And being around girls whose fathers had been the
governor of the state and they all came from mansions, a lot of them came from great
wealth. And they also thought that I was the first nice Yankee they've ever met which I
thought was hilarious. And I said, well you should come back to my town because there's
a lot of them here like me. It was very interesting and they could never understand where
Rockford was. It’s near Chicago, you know, you can figure that out. That’s all they could
ever figure. So it was really an education to be there not for the schooling that I got,
which wasn't all that great because I didn't specialize in anything. I didn't know why I
was there really. And the war was on and everybody else was, my girlfriends were
working in factories and you know in offices and going to Washington, DC and working
there and I just felt like, these girls are just worried about if they're going to get married
and that's all they're interested in and I thought that was kind of boring so I never went
back.
JS: What was your first job then?
MP: I had an interesting first job. I don't even know why they hired me I was only 17. I
had just graduated from high school. I was the proofreader for Bannon Printing Company
and it was fun. I enjoyed it. I was right up at the machines, that’s when they had the big
linotype machines like the ones we've got in the [Midway] Village, or similar anyway,
where they handset the type and then they also had a big linotype machine, but they also
handset a lot of their type too. And I worked right up, you know, with the guys and it was
really fun. I learned to set type and I learned to read backwards. I can't do it anymore but
for a, really a relative kid, and then they had an office where they would, if I didn't have
anything else to do I’d go down and type form letters you know. We didn't have places,
you know, copy machines, and if they sent out form letters for the printing company, we
just sat there and typed them all. So that's how you learn to be a really good typist is
sitting to write form letters. And I worked in the press collating their stuff because they
did a lot of programs and receipt books and stuff for churches and things like that and it
had to be collated and so I would, when I didn't have anything else to do I would go back
and work in that department. That was fun too so. That was a really cool job. I really
enjoyed that but I left after a year to go to school and I didn't go back there.
JS: How did your parents, how did they like you working there?
MP: Oh they thought it was fine. You know anybody bringing in a paycheck at that time
that was kind of, nobody had a whole lot of money then.
JS: Now you said you went back to school. What kind of school did you go to? College?
�MP: That was the school I went to, yeah. I did go to Business College later on. After I
went to, left Oxford my folks had moved to Hot Springs, Arkansas because my mother
had really bad rheumatism and they had the Hot Springs there and that really helped her a
lot so they moved there. They had left Rockford. I never went back home to that house
after I got out of college. I went to Hot Springs and stayed there for a few months through
the summer and then they decided to move back to Rockford so I went back with them.
But while I was in Hot Springs I went to Business College there. My mother didn't know
what to do with me so she said, you got to do something. So I went to a business college
there and met a friend that I have to this day. She still is in Arkansas and I go visit her. I
haven't lately but . . .
JS: Why did they move back?
MP: I really don't remember why they moved back, whether it was my father's job or she
figured that she was well enough to move. I really don't know. But they moved back and
I went back with them and then I got a job at Barber Colman and that was during the war.
That was interesting, boring but interesting because we typed all of the bills that went out
from Barber Colman. They were hand typed and it's funny because we have a lot of
ephemera from Barber Colman here [at the museum], and a lot of the newspapers that
those factories were put out every month, and I was flipping through one when it came in
as a part of our collection and lo and behold, there’s a picture of me in the office! I didn't
know they took it. There I am sitting typing. We typed all of those bills by hand and it
just boggles the mind to think of it now.
JS: Let's talk about your friends and your family, your community a little bit. Did you
have a lot of friends when you are living in Rockford?
MP: I had, yeah, I had one or two special friends and I had neighborhood friends, both
sides of the river I did because I grew up on one side and I had friends from there and
from school. And then when I moved to the west side I had a couple of really good
friends who lived close by in the neighborhood. And the tennis courts, which were, Lewis
Lemon School is now, that's Sunset Park, and I lived a block from that and so they had
tennis courts there and all the neighborhood kids, young people, would go there and play
tennis and that's how I got involved in that. You had your own net, you rolled the court,
and you made your own lines. Yeah. It was a clay court. It was really fun.
JS: Did the kids tend to, just to be friends with people of like ethnic backgrounds?
MP: Not ever that I recall, no. I was friends with the girls that lived in my neighborhood,
the children that lived close by, and they had Swedish parents most of them. And no one
ever said anything, we never paid any, the children never paid any attention to it that I
know of.
JS: There was no ethnic fighting?
MP: No.
�JS: How did you meet your friends?
MP: My friends? They were neighbors. They were in school with me, schoolmates or
neighbors and, children spend a lot of time outside of the house in those days. You didn't
make play dates, you went out in the neighborhood and found somebody to play with. So
you had a wide circle of friends, maybe for several blocks around you that you knew
from your school days and I went to Brown School, which was a neighborhood grade
school, so all those children lived in that area, so that was, everybody would get together
under the streetlight at night and play games which is not done any more.
JS: How do you feel your, I'm going to speak to you about your father since he's German.
How did you feel that they accepted, your father accepted American culture?
MP: Mostly I think he accepted it. You like living here. I think he liked being out of
Germany although he's very proud of his country. As Germans are, they’re very
nationalistic and of course he came from the Germany well before Hitler. It was “Hoch
the Kaiser,” he used to say, you know, “Hail the Kaiser.” And I should read more of
German history to find out when the Kaiser exactly came in because I know there wasn't
much of a Germany before the Kaiser. So he always talked about the Kaiser. He knew
nothing about what came after that. But he was very proud of his country because he
considered them to be intellectually superior, most Germans have that attitude, they are
superior to other people. They let you know about it and he didn't hesitate to let you
know but he never downgraded the United States in any way.
JS: Was he opened to new ways that things are done in the United States?
MP: Oh I think he was because he was so young when he came here and then he had a lot
of friends and he belonged to, he belonged to German clubs when he lived in
Connecticut, when he was getting his citizenship. I noticed that he belonged to what is
called a Turnverein and he was very athletic and he was a gymnast which is what a
Turnverein kind of is and he was a gymnast and he was a good swimmer and a diver.
And so he had a big circle of friends when he lived out east and I think most of them
were probably German. That's how we met them but he never cared much one way or the
other. It didn't matter to him. If they were there, fine, if they weren't that's fine.
JS: Did he bring any of the traditions from Germany that you had in your home?
MP: Not that I know of, no, he didn't.
JS: Did you ever disagree with your parents about the things you wanted to do, or where
you wanted to go, or music to listen to?
MP: No. I don't think anybody did in those days. We didn't have an awful lot of money,
no one did. So most of the things you did were done close to home or through church or
�school or your neighborhood, your close neighborhood, and I don't think they had any
reason to worry about me at all.
JS: Were you embarrassed that he was different?
MP: No, I don't recall that at all. I think that's because so many of my friends had foreign
parents.
JS: Okay. So you really weren't different.
MP: No I don't think so. He just was a different nationality but nobody really paid much
attention to that either.
JS: How about customs or superstitions? Did he bring any of that to this country? Or
celebrations?
MP: No, because he was raised without a family. He came here without a family home
background and he came from an institutional background.
JS: How long was he schooled there?
MP: Well, he was an apprenticed when he was 14 until he was 17 and that was three
years of apprenticeship and he, and it was tough. He said this man was tough on them.
He'd smack them around if he thought they didn't do something right.
JS: What about boarding school though?
MP: The boarding school was also tough. He didn't have too many happy memories of
that either.
JS: When did he start there?
MP: I think he was a lonely child to begin with. He didn't have too many happy
memories of it that's all I can think about there.
JS: You think he was pretty young when he went there?
MP: Yes, he was a year and a half.
JS: When he went to boarding school?
MP: Well it was a home, a boarding school and a home for children because his father
couldn't take care of him. His mother was dead and the sisters lived in Cologne and they
were married and they obviously couldn't or didn't take him either. The one letter that I
read that was translated for me, I have a lot of his correspondence. It's very difficult to
translate in that old German handwriting and there was a gentleman here at the Museum a
�number of years ago who had been born in Germany and he offered to translate a few of
my papers so I did get a few letters translated which was nice and some of his documents
so I knew what they were, but he didn't have time to do too much. He was not well so he
did what he could and I appreciated that and I never have had tried to have anybody
translate the rest of them.
JS: Did your dad think it was important that you remember your roots, that you were . . .?
MP: He never made a point of it.
JS: Were you interested in finding out about your dad's?
MP: I've done a lot in trying to find out about him.
JS: As a child though did you?
MP: As a child I didn't care, I wasn't interested, no, uh uh. And my mother had a German
background and her family was more interesting to me because they had roots back in the
United States, her mother's family had roots way back to the 1700s in the United States.
So to me that was more interesting than the German side. I never knew them. I never
knew my grandparents on either side. I didn't have any grandparents on either side.
JS: How about your children are they interested in their roots?
MP: Yeah, I think they are. I don't think my daughter is as interested in it as, she would
be interested if I presented it to her, but she’s not interested in pursuing it. My middle son
is very interested and I have done some things with him and I think my older son would
be too if he weren't so busy doing other things. But I have tried to look up some stuff and
help do some background. I need to do more but I haven't gotten around to it.
JS: Have they ever gone back for a visit? Your parents, . . .
MP: Have they what?
JS: . . .did they ever go back to Germany for a visit?
MP: No. I've been in Germany with my daughter and Tom lived there for awhile. Both
Jim and Tom have traveled to Germany and Tom lived there for almost 2 years and, I'm
trying to think, no, other than just being a tourist no one really ever looked up his family
there or went to anyplace he had lived except Cologne.
JS: You didn't when you are there?
MP: No I didn't really have much of a chance. He told me where the bakery would have
been in Cologne right around the corner from the big cathedral but we were between
trains and Germans are notoriously unfriendly to Americans anyways, especially if they
�ask directions and they don't want to be bothered with you, and I didn't have a whole lot
of time, so no, I didn't. He had told me where to go and what to do and, he had a
phenomenal memory for streets and locations. He could remember everything that
everywhere, but he never said anything about it that I didn't go look up anything. It didn't
seem to bother him. He just told me if I wanted to go see it I could. But he never showed
any interest.
JS: Did he live to be quite old?
MP: Yes, in fact I was trying to figure out when he died. Isn't that terrible! I don't
remember. It was in the early 1980s I think, he was 91 when he died.
JS: Do you have relatives there yet that you have any contact with?
MP: I think there probably are. He had a brother and the two sisters and they had two
daughters that I know of that he has a picture of, the nieces. And a brother who had
children but I've never been able to trace them back and I never have found, his mother is
a total mystery to me, so I know the town he was born in and what her name was and I
know that a little research would bring that information out but I haven't looked it up.
JS: And none of them have come to the states to visit?
MP: a lot of. . . It's funny because my father always claimed that his name was unusual
and there was nobody in the United States from his family here so ergo no one had that
name C-O-M-M-E-R.
JS: I guess that's something we didn't even talk about. What was your name before you
were married?
MP: Yeah, his name. His name was Commer, Heinrich Joseph Theodore Commer,
always mispronounced, always misspelled. I was glad to get Peterson, that's much easier.
I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand what it is but it is. But there were a
lot of names like that in the phone book when I went through Germany in Cologne. But I
never looked any of them up and they should have done what Rick Nielsen always said.
He says “hey you, just get on the phone and you say what you want in English and they'll
go find someone who speaks English and they'll put them on the phone.” Well I never
had the nerve to do that so I never did it.
JS: Did your parents, or you, encourage other members of your family, of his family, to
come to this country?
MP: No he did not really connect with his family. He didn't connect with any of them as
far as I've been able to tell until after World War I. He sent a food package in the early
1920s to his sister and I have letters from her from 1920 before that and then it stops
abruptly and the only thing that I can remember my mother saying about that, because
that was, that was before I was born that he sent the food package and there must've been
�some communication after that because I understood from her that the family suddenly
decided that here was this rich American and they could send all their children here and
have him educate them and they didn't go for that because he said they never did
anything for me when I was a child so that was the end of it and I never heard anything
more about it and I never asked. So I don't know what happened but he cut off all
communication again and that's all in the 1920s.
JS: And there was never anything more after that?
MP: No, nothing in all of their papers that I ever see again and those letters were
translated for me by this gentleman. So this is the first time, and his father in the
meantime had passed away, and the one sister really gave him “what for” for letting dear
old dad die, you know, without letting him know where you were. And the only thing I
can figure is that he never let them know because he was afraid he'd be prosecuted for,
because he was really, you know, illegal and they would prosecute him for leaving his
job on the ship and jumping ship. So I think that’s why he never contacted them and I
think he didn't really care.
JS: Do you think he was angry with his family there, resentful?
MP: I just don't, he might have been slightly resentful, but he didn't really act that way.
You just acted like he wasn't interested, that they weren't interested in him and he really
had his own life. He made his own life.
JS: When did he get his citizenship?
MP: In 1917 in Danbury, Connecticut.
JS: Was he excited about that?
MP: I don't know, he never said. He never said anything about it. He was promptly taken
into the Army shortly after that, which is of course what he tried to avoid when he left
Germany.
JS: So he was in the service?
MP: Yes he was. For eight months he was in the service. In fact he was, he was. . . what
do you call it when they let them go?. . . out of Camp Grant, because he had enlisted in
Chicago. He was then living in Chicago and he had a lot of friends in Chicago and he
went into the Army, in fact he was he didn't enlist he was conscripted into the Army, he
was drafted into the Army. He was in the Army for eight months and then he was put out
at Camp Grant, he has his papers from Camp Grant and I think it's really rather
interesting that he was a baker and evidently, the only thing I can figure is because he
was German they probably figured they didn't want him near food, so they put him in the
cavalry. There was cavalry in Camp Grant which I wasn't aware of and my mother
thought that was the funniest thing because she was raised in the country and she loved
�horses and she knew all about horses and she said, “He doesn't know one end of the horse
from the other except to bet on them. But they put him in the cavalry?” She never got
over that.
JS: Did he like being in the cavalry?
MP: Well he wasn't in there long enough to really matter, I guess. I think he was a
sergeant for about two months but he was kind of cocky. He didn't submit to authority
real well. He'd been on his own a long time and I don't think the Army with his cup of
tea.
JS: He wasn't in the German army though?
MP: Oh no. That’s what’s. . .
JS: I mean earlier.
MP: No, he left Germany when he was 19, so he escaped the draft over there evidently.
JS: And he got in on it here.
MP: He got in on it here which I think was a kind of retribution after all.
JS: But only for eight months?
MP: Well the war was over. He was conscripted in late 1917 and the war was over early
in 1918 so he was only in there for eight months. And of course anybody who came out
of Chicago was taken out of the army in Camp Grant which seems kind of funny because
he didn't have anything to do with Rockford at the time, I don't know.
JS: Did he stay in Rockford then?
MP: No, no. He went back to Chicago and then he went, well he must've gone to Fond du
Lac because that's where he and my mother were married and then they moved to
Kankakee where I was born and then they moved back to Fond du Lac until I was four
and then they migrated here.
JS: Why do you suppose when they got here, he stayed here?
MP: I don't know. Maybe because by that time I was a little kid, you know, four years
old and was going to kindergarten, and maybe he liked the town, and maybe he liked the
jobs. I don't know. I never asked and he never said.
JS: Did he die in this, living here?
MP: Yes.
�JS: And your mother also?
MP: Yes.
JS: Did they ever talk about, well your mother wasn't from Germany, but your father ever
talk about moving back there?
MP: No. He never even acted interested in going back to visit. Never made any effort
whatever. Even when he knew I was going he didn't, you know, didn't act like, oh gee I
wish I could go. Cause he was old by then. He never showed any particular interest in it.
He was interested in the history of the country and he could talk about it but he didn't act
like he cared if he went there or not. Which is kind of curious really, but that's the way he
was.
JS: Did, do you encourage your children to learn more about their ancestry?
MP: Well they know I'm interested and they kind of depend on me to tell them about it
but as I say my middle son is interested. They haven't shown any real, well they've got
families, and they’re busy and they just haven't gotten into it. I think you get to a certain
age and you do get more interested in it. And they kind of know that I've listed things and
done some along the lines, so they're probably depending on me to finish it. I better hurry
I guess.
JS: You said, you mentioned your husband was Swedish?
MP: Yes, his mother, his mother was an immigrant. His mother was, well she was little
when she came over here, four or five years old. So she, Dan said she was too young to
qualify because he didn't know anything about her and she had a sister and. . . I think it's
curious. I looked up the ship's records for her father. He came here, like a lot of people
came, first leaving the family behind and got settled and then brought the family over. He
evidently left his wife and family behind and brought the oldest daughter with him who
was only six. I've never been able to figure that one out. Until he went back to Sweden
and stayed there for awhile. They had another child and then they all came back to the
United States. And then I think one boy was born here and one daughter died. I don't
know, you know. So her family was Swedish and my, her husband . . . who was Swedish
in that . . .? Oh his father was Swedish, his mother was English, that's right, it was. Okay,
his father was from Sweden so there's Swedish on both sides, half Swedish on both sides.
JS: Where did you meet him?
MP: My husband? It's strange. I knew everybody he knew in school. We had friends who
were our friends but we didn't know one another. And as I said, his family had a store
right across from our bakery, although he didn't hang around there. They had a home in
Linden Ave. He stayed home. I was living over the bakery. He wasn't, at the time. A little
difference in the economic family life, at that time. But he was a friend of all of my
�friends which is kind of interesting and he was a real good friend of the young man that
my best friend from childhood, that had lived near me that we'd gone to church together,
married. And so he wasn’t, hadn't quite gotten his wings yet when he was training to be a
pilot so he wasn't home for the wedding but I was in her wedding. I was her maid of
honor. And his other two friends, one of his friends was marrying my friend and the other
friend was best man so they were all there except for him. But when they came home on
leave a couple months later then he was home. And so they said “Hey,” my girlfriend’s
husband said “Hey, we'd like to introduce you to Blanche's friend and we could go out.”
And he said, famous last words, he said “Oh I don't know. I've met some of her friends.”
And her husband said “No, no, look here look at the wedding picture. Look, you're gonna
like this one.” So that's how it turned out. I thought that was kind of curious it ended up
that we knew the same people all our lives but we didn't know one another, till that point.
JS: And how long have you been married?
MP: Oh goodness. We've been married since, oh geez, since 1949. What is it? 53 years,
55 years? Something like that. Anyway since 1949. Because we didn't marry until after
he'd been out of the service and had gone to school. He went back to college as most
young men did in those days and I moved back to Hot Springs and I didn't see him for
two or three years till we got back together again and got married.
JS: And then you lived in Rockford?
MP: Always lived in Rockford. His family has always lived here. He wouldn't think of
living anywhere else. Typical Swedish background, no this is where they live.
JS: What did he, what occupation did he have?
MP: He was a salesman. He worked for Morton Salt, Miles salt and then he worked for
Lebovitch Brothers when he retired from Lebovitch Brothers.
JS: So, your children are all grown now and you have a lot of grandchildren?
MP: I have five granddaughters and one baby grandson. He came along to kind of
interrupt the flow there. So they range from 25 down to three months.
JS: What do you hope for their future, your grandchildren's future?
MP: Oh my goodness, it's hard to know what children's futures are going to be like these
days. It's just moving so much faster than I can keep track of and I feel very old
compared to them. I don't know, I don't really know.
JS: How do you feel about the current debate that's going on in this country about
immigration?
�MP: It's hard to know what to feel about it. You feel sorry for them in a lot of ways and
yet you feel that our country has let us down by not paying more attention to, to them.
And they feel angry at their country that they don't do more for their own people. I think
that's really a shame. I don't know how they can live with themselves when they know
that they have their own people leaving their borders to go somewhere else because it's
better for them there. Isn't that sad? I think that's really sad. I don't know how it's going to
be solved. It’s going to be a big mess. I know it will be. It's never going to make
everybody happy. There's nothing we can do now to remedy the harm that's been done.
JS: There are many countries that people are coming too. It’s not just the Mexican
community but a lot of other countries too.
MP: Oh yeah. I think it's interesting to what's happening in Europe. The people who are
causing so much trouble over there recently, like in England, I suppose, and they have
such an open policy too, and they’ve always been so friendly to people. When my
daughter and I were there twice, two or three times that I've been there, we were always
amazed at how many Indians there were, everywhere in the stores, in the restaurants.
They were, all the workers were Indians because they had the right to come into England
and be citizens, I don't know about the other people that have come there recently, the
Taliban and all those people. Why do they come to a country if they don't like the way
the country is run? I'm sorry, but I don't understand that and then make trouble for the
people who live there? That just seems to me to be an anomaly in some ways. I don't
know. But the immigration problem, I'm so old it won't be solved in my lifetime, I’m
sure. But it's going to be a mess. No matter what they do they're going to make people
unhappy, no matter what they do. And of course they're immigrants. My father was an
immigrant, you can't, what you say? I don't know how many people came into the
country the way my father did or whether they ever became citizens, I really don't know.
JS: Did he talk about, you mentioned he jumped ship. Did he talk about that incident
when he did that?
MP: Yes, he, I think in the back of his mind he probably was thinking he might come to
the United States and visit and then, they would let them off the ship you know when
they were in port. And also, as I said, he was a very independent and a very feisty young
man and I think he, his story is he had a fight with somebody on board and he just
decided he wasn't going to go back so he just wore all his clothes off and took all his
papers that they always carry with them. Europeans are very much into carrying all their
ID papers with them and he just never went back to the ship and so every time it came
into port he made sure that he wasn't anywhere around.
JS: No one ever came after him?
MP: Well, if they did they didn't find him. He made sure of that. He said when the ship
came into port and you were supposed to be on that ship you stayed out of sight so, that's
all I know about that.
�JS: I think that's about it unless, is there, some other things you want to talk about we
didn't cover?
MP: No. I don't really feel like I'm much of a daughter of an immigrant because he never
really acted much like one.
JS: He's had an unusual background.
MP: Well I suppose, yes, I never thought of it that way.
JS: Have you told your children all the stories about him?
MP: Probably not. He was a great talker. He was a wonderful grandfather and especially
to my sons because they were the first ones. And they spent, my mother and father both
spent a lot of time with the boys. Not so much with Jane, she came along a little bit later.
And they had two sets of wonderful grandparents. John's grandparents only lived a
couple blocks away and my grandparents were in and out of town and lived here and then
would leave for a while and then come back. And they really spent a lot of time with my
children. I think they had a wonderful, wonderful life because of that. I always think that
that's why they've turned out so well because they always had somebody, you know
besides us. And my parents were the people who took them fishing and took them on
trips and John's parents were the kind who kept them at home and fed them and took care
of them, you know, but they never took them anywhere. But my folks were always on
picnics and taking them fishing and stuff I learned to hate because they always did that
with me. I can't tell you how many forest preserves I've spent weekends in.
JS: Your parents did that?
MP: My mother and father loved to go. My father would fish and my mother would pack
a lunch and we'd go to the forest preserve, oh deliver me, I don't care to do that. I don't
like it anymore no.
JS: Did you at the time?
MP: I don't think I knew anything any different at the time and lots of times my mother
would take, and it's interesting that my mother drove, which was unusual for ladies of
that age because a lot of my friend’s mothers didn't drive, didn’t drive a car. And she was
very independent and she drove and so she would take us out to the park, into the forest
preserve, my girlfriends and I and let us run around and climb the hills and do whatever
we wanted to do and I never thought anything about that until a couple of years ago one
of those friends came back from Ohio to visit me, in her 80s, she drove here, bless her
sweet heart, and she commented .She said “I always remember, I loved your mother
because she would take us out to the park,” and I thought my mother would be so pleased
because to me that was, “uh” [sound of dismay] you know. They thought it was
wonderful because she said “Well you know my mother didn't drive.” And I thought
�about it and I thought, yeah that's right they didn't. Very few women, people's mothers
drove but my mother did.
JS: It was your mother that did this more so than your father? Took you out there?
MP: Well together they did, but she took, with the girls you know, she would take us but
when my boys were born it was my mother and father would take the boys and take them
fishing and come back with 8,000,000 pounds of fish that none of us could eat because
they’d go to those ponds where you pay for them, you know, you pay to catch the fish.
They have a lot of those around. You don't know that? Okay well they know it. And so
they would and I would say “Why do you let them touch so many?” “Well they were
having fun,” my mother would say.
JS: Good memories up there.
MP: Oh yes. They have wonderful memories of their grandparents and I really
appreciated that because I know how many ladies, women raised their children with
nobody in town to help them and it's real hard. It's very hard. My daughter-in-laws have
done that and are doing it. When I could help I did. I'm too old now to do much but the
one daughter that has the, my 25 year old granddaughter, I spent a lot of time with them.
They live in Georgia and I went and helped a lot there, and spent a lot of time with them.
JS: Do your children live in town?
MP: Jane the daughter lives here. The two boys, one lives in Tennessee, one lives in
Georgia.
JS: Well thank you. I think we got a lot of . . .
MP: Oh you’re very welcome. I don’t know that you found out anything real. . .
JS: It was very interesting.
MP: Well my father lived in Chicago for quite a while, off and on. And one of the things
that always struck me funny was the pronunciation of Goethe Street. Now most people in
Chicago call it Gothe or whatever they can come up with because they don't know and he
used to get irritated. “It’s Gerta,” he'd say. You know how the Germans have that guttural
sound. And then my name I noticed was misspelled. Well it's spelled the way you would
spell some people's names. On my birth announcements it’s MARGERY because he went
out and had a birth announcements printed for my mother and she was horrified because
that was not the way she wanted it spelled. She wanted it MARJORIE. There's something
about Germans and J. They don't get that letter in their alphabet, That’s not, Maora, he
would call me. He couldn’t get that and I got to be a joke that they would refer to. My
mother would call me Maora just because it was, because that's what he said, “Well that's
not the way, it should be, Maora, because it had a J in it.” I don't know what that is about
the German language but that threw him for a loop. I had a real swell time when I went to
�get a passport a number of years later because my name was spelled incorrectly according
to them and I had to go back to school records in the Rockford school system and prove
to them that when I was enrolled in school I was enrolled with my name spelled
MARJORIE or they wouldn't accept my, wouldn't give me a passport. So that was
interesting. And of course he hated Minnesota. He worked up there one time. What is that
real cold place in Minnesota? Not Bemidji, there's another place you always hear about.
JS: Duluth?
MP: No there's, maybe it's not Minnesota maybe it's another one of those like North
Dakota or something like that.
JS: Fargo?
MP: Fargo! North Dakota. He evidently worked there once and he just, he couldn't wait
to get out of there. He spent a winter there and he never got over it, how horrified he was
over how cold it was there. He also worked in the circus for awhile. He bopped around a
lot. I think he probably was just a roustabout. I don't think he did any baking for them or
anything, he just did it for fun I think. And I unfortunately did not question him enough
about all the places that he went. He never went west, which I think is kind of interesting.
He would've been a good candidate for going to California or someplace like that. But he
stayed pretty much in the East and the Midwest.
JS: Did he talk about his time at the circus?
MP: Not really. I didn't ask him, unfortunately.
JS: I would think that would be something that you?
MP: Yeah I would think that would be interesting too. Dumb me, I didn't ask him. But
the part about the Chicago street pronunciation, that really irritated him that they couldn't
pronounce it correctly. I can't really think of anything else. What else I was talking about
before that you wanted to hear about? I wish I had questioned him more. When he was at
the end before he died, he was in the nursing home, he was out at River Bluff and I would
get him talking because that would keep him happy and he loved to talk and he started, he
did give me a long soliloquy on all the places he had been and I didn't have a tape
recorder, I didn't write it down and I regret now that I don't remember all that he said. I
know he was all over the place and it was just fun for him he had no ties, he had no wife.
He had nobody.
JS: Do you think he felt like talking about it then, rather than when he was younger?
MP: Oh yes, he talked about it any time you ask him. It's just nobody ever asked.
Unfortunately, as we all found out later nobody asked. I think my boys, he was wild, he
told them wild shaggy dog stories. He loved to tell us jokes, long involved jokes which of
course they thought was a lot of fun and when they got a little bit older they had tape
�recorders and they taped him one time. I wish I still had the tape. And they taped him
telling one of these long involved stories of his and then they played it back for him. He
was horrified that he had an accent. He did not know how he sounded and he was old
then and he had never occurred to him that he didn't sound like all the people that he
talked to. He thought he sounded the same. And of course he had a German accent, not a
real strong one, but a German accent. And he later, we had a friend who was a friend of
Tom's, and she spoke German to him because she thought “Oh this is interesting.” She
was from Germany. And he speaks German with some kind of an accent, she said,
because he'd been gone so long and he hadn't spoken in German to anyone in so long that
he really didn't speak very good German anymore. She was horrified too, she said “well
he doesn't speak very good German. He speaks with some kind of a funny accent,” she
said. Which I thought was interesting. I didn't notice it, but she did. So that's all I can
think of.
JS: Okay. Thank you.
MP: Okay.
JS: Tell a little bit about your son Tom who’s a musician. How did your father react to
that? Did he enjoy the fact that he was involved with music?
MP: Well of course both my mother and father were so fond of him and so close to him.
They couldn't understand exactly what it was he was doing but whatever it was if he was
doing it, it was fine with them and they were going to participate as much as possible. So
if he played anywhere locally, which usually would have been the Sinnissippi band shell
that would later on, when they first started of course he played places like that because
they were just starting out. And he went to, he and my mother would go to Sinnissippi
Park and they take their blanket and they'd spread it out and they'd get all ready and the
first time they were scheduled to play there somebody, he was kind of wandering around
and they were setting up on the stage and nothing was going on and he didn't see any of
the members of the band around so he walked over to one of the roadies and said “Well
when is the band going to go on or when is it going to appear?” and this kid looked at my
father up and down and he said “Well you know dad, it ain't Beethoven.” My father
thought that was the funniest thing he ever, he wasn't insulted at all, he just thought it was
hilarious. He told everybody that story. He just thought that was a real good one. They
didn't really understand what he did, but as long as he was doing and it was fine with
them and they would show up as much as possible anyplace that he would play that they
could go.
JS: They would go out of the city?
MP: They would go and see him and so, they were very proud of him and they didn't
understand what the heck it was he was doing, but whatever it was if he was doing it that
was just fine with them.
JS: Well they became so famous that.
�MP: He never really lived to see that. No, that was way past his time. He was old by that
time. And I think he appreciated what he was doing but he didn't really get to see him
anymore. He was in a nursing home for quite a long time. And he was crippled and he
had a stroke and he was crippled after. He stayed alert and sharp to the very end though.
He was always, he never got hazy in his mind or anything like that so, that part was good.
I could still talk to him. My mother was not. But he was still in his right mind at the end.
But I don't think really at that point he really understood what Tom was doing. He
understood it when he played in the park and did the little things that he did.
JS: He was high school age or a little beyond that, your son?
MP: Well he was a union musician when he was 14. He started when he went into high
school. Gosh I can't even remember years anymore, 1950, 19 what did he was, 18, 68,
1968 he graduated. He was heavily into music then and then they went on from there. He
was in different bands. They had their own band and then they started with another one
and of course the big musician in town in that genre was Rick Nielsen and his family had
the music store on 7th St and Tom took lessons there. And he took lessons there for a
year with one of the teachers that Rick's father employed. He actually was a barber I
think and he just taught guitar on the side. And so he taught Tom the music that he
wanted to play. He let him play what he wanted to play and then taught him how to play
that and then when he got about a year, it took them about a year, and he said “You go on
and do your own thing now,” he said, “I taught you all I know.” So he did. He went out
and started a little band of his own that his father called the Tom-Paul-Larrys because it
was Tom, Paul, and Larry and they didn't have a name and Tom says “We're not going to
call our band that.” So his father said “Well I think Tompaullarry’s a real good name.”
And they played their first gig, if you can call it, on the lower side of what is not there
anymore, the 10th Ave. pool. Did you ever remember that? That's way before your time.
Anyway there is a big public swimming pool on 10th Ave off of 7th St, in that area, and
it was aboveground so you went to the dressing rooms on the main floor and the pool was
above ground. So when you were at the pool you looked out over into the park and their
first playing date was in the little park below the pool. So everybody gathered, dripping
water on the drums as I can remember from their suits, you know leaning over watching
the band play. the Tom-Paul-Larrys played their first gig at the 10th Ave. pool.
JS: Was your father or mother musical? Do you think that's where Tom picked it up?
MP: Not really that I know of, no. My father was interested in music but he was not a
musician at all and my mother had one brother who was musical and played something, I
forget what. But no, I don't know that he got any musical talent from either one of us. All
the other members of the band did get musical talent from their families but not Tom. He
did that all on his own.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jean Seegers
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Marjorie Peterson
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Marjorie Peterson
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
July 18, 2007
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Marge Peterson grew up in Rockford, Illinois. Her father immigrated to the United States in 1909 but was an illegal immigrant until 1917.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
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PDF Text
Text
Sunil Puri
Interviewed July 19, 2007
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Sunil Puri
Sunil Puri: Sound great?
Holli Connell: Yes sounds perfect actually
SP: Okay
HC: Well I'm going to ask you on the sheet some of the questions that you saw and we’ll just
start out with the easy ones right now for us to state who you are. Your name first and last.
SP: Sunil Puri. S-U-N-I-L. Last name is Puri, P-U-R-I.
HC: And are you married?
SP: Yes.
HC: And your wife's name?
SP: Janine Cannell Puri
HC: And do you have children?
SP: Yes, three. And they are Ashlin who’s eleven, Chandin who is eight and Angelie my little
girl who is five.
HC: Education. What is your educational background?
SP: I have a bachelor of science from Rockford College with a degree in accounting and I have
continuing education for the last six years at Harvard Business School in executive business
education.
HC: And where do you work?
SP: I work at First Rockford Group which is company I started in 1984, so I've been here for 23
years. It's a company I cofounded and have been the president for 23 years.
HC: How long have you been in this country?
SP: I have been in this country, I immigrated to this country in November 10th of 1979.
However I'd been here the year prior, and two years prior, so I've been here now for 28 years.
HC: And where did you come from?
SP: I was born and raised in Bombay, India which is now called Mumbai. Which is on the
western coast of Bombay, which is the largest city in India, it would be the New York of India,
�which is the commercial capital of India. And I've been there for, I was there, when I came here I
was just turned 19. Was 18 years old, actually I was still eighteen by the time I arrived in New
York and by the time I got to Rockford. So I came here when I was 18 years old and it's been,
came here.
I had a brother who lived here, half-brother who came to this country in 1960 when I was born.
He married a girl from Beloit, Wisconsin during the Vietnam era when he was working at a
defense plant. To not go to Vietnam, he ended up in a defense plant called Fairbanks Morse in
Beloit, Wisconsin and met his wife who is still his wife. They got married in ‘71 so they been
married 30 some years. And so he had lived, he's an engineer, and he had worked all over Iowa
and other places and had just moved here.
So I left, I'm the youngest of six boys in my family including my oldest brother and I was, since
my oldest brother never went back to India as he was supposed to come back and join the family
business the others were never let out of the country. I was the first one. The other four in
between never left the country. In fact some have never left the country yet. But I was kind of the
rabble rouser, and also coming from a traditional Hindu Indian family, my chance to make a
decision was never going to come. The hierarchy is such that with six boys the sixth one doesn't
count and I didn't want to wish any of my siblings ill. So I just decided it was time for me to
move on.
He had been here since I was born literally and I decided to travel. I had traveled extensively
when I was 13. I traveled to Singapore and Hong Kong and . . . Singapore, Hong Kong, Sri
Lanka, Malaysia, India. I went on a cruise by myself when I was 13 years old. When I was 16
and 17, I traveled through Europe and I think it was 17 when I first came here. I think I was 17
years old when I first came to the US and traveled quite extensively from New York all the way
down to Florida, you know and Boston, saw the East Coast. Came to the Midwest and went
around these few states over here, Wisconsin, Iowa and Illinois and stayed with my brother’s inlaws at that time. And went back and a year later had the bug and decided I wasn't really gaining
much at home with four older brothers in the business and it was time to go out on my own and
if I was successful in India it would be probably credited to the family name anyway and the
chances of being motivated were limited as to you get a lot of responsibility without any
authority and it was just better to move on.
So I had $142. I arrived in New York. I remember the Statue of Liberty although I was obviously
not processed there at that time. Stayed in New York with a cousin, a distant cousin who still
lives there, for about 5-6 days. He lived in an apartment with three other people and the four of
them were gracious enough to give me a bed while one slept on the floor just to help the fellow
immigrant to come in. Showed me the city, showed me the ropes. Loved it. And then literally
took a Greyhound bus all the way from New York. I think it was a day and a half, and arrived
here. And stayed with my brother for a little bit. He introduced me to some people and worked
some odd man jobs.
And then through a lot of persistence got admitted to Rockford College which is what I really
wanted to do. When I came to this country, and since this is going down in history, I've got to be
careful, I came on a tourist visa. And at that time I really didn't have any intentions to do, I was
�just going to basically leave home and figure out what the life was all about. I didn't know if I
was going to be a student or not but after I came here I decided that was the right course, rather
than just bumming around it was good to get some avocation, you know get some education and
find eventually a job or do something over here.
So I came here with $142 and a tourist visa and back then, and even now, if you had taken the
SAT or an ACT you could not come on a tourist visa because they would know that you had
intentions of coming here to study and a student visa was almost impossible to get from India
because they also knew that most Indian students who came here did not go back. So
immigration was extremely strict. So since I'd been here once before and gone back and they
were okay with me coming back another time, I was, I went to Rockford College.
I will never forget they would not even give me an appointment because I didn't have my ACT
or SAT, or. . .and sat outside President Norman Stewart's office for I think it was definitely over
a week, about 10 days. Somebody would drop me off who used to work at Sundstrand's, a
gentleman who was a neighbor and I would sit there and basically eat my lunch out of
sandwiches whatever they gave me or are the pop machine and the snack machine and the
secretary wouldn't even let me in the office because I was just a bother I would read the catalog
and every piece of paper they had, literature the college had. And I would wait hoping the
president would give me an appointment. And finally the second week he was tired of seeing me
sitting out there and asked me to come in. He had been an archaeology major himself, so he had
been a foreign student in Egypt a long time before that. Was a kind gentleman who let me in and
wanted to know what my business was and I explained to him I wanted to go to school there. He
said “Why didn't you apply?” I said “They won't let me.” And he said “Why?” I explained to
him and he said “Well you know because of our accreditation we can't admit you if you don't
have all these things.” And I said “Well just give me a shot and if I'm not any good after a
semester I'll go.” He said “Well, we can't do that.” And I'll never forget telling him that I'd read
in the catalog that they had a student teacher ratio of 10 students to every teacher. And I had
walked around the campus and I hadn't found a single classroom that had less than 35 chairs. So
it was not going to bother them. They already had their fixed costs done and their variable cost
was nothing to have another kid sit in a chair and warm it up. And hopefully the deal was if I got
a 3.5 GPA, you know a B+ average they would keep me. And I said “I’ll work very hard to
make sure I get that or better and that will only help the whole class and promote competition
and everything else.” And I'll never forget him, he was quite impressed and he called the vice
president of finance and said, you know, listen to this kid. He knows all about variable cost and
how we should save the college and get more students over here cause that's what we really need.
So that's anyway how I got admitted.
Soon they found out that I didn't have a visa. And I'll never forget the college making a call to
Senator Percy back then, he was a US Senator from Illinois, and going down to the federal
building which I was just at recently and a good friend of mine Judge Kapala, Fred Kapala, was
sworn in as a federal judge. That's the second time after 28 years I've been to that building. And
I went there originally, I'll never forget it, Senator Percy was going to help me with immigration
and get my visa changed from a tourist visa to a student visa and I remember him telling one of
his staffers to go down to the Immigration Department and make sure it was taken care of and
the person who took me along said “Boy, I know exactly what you're up to, no good. You know,
�you knew what you were doing. Senator’s just being too kind to you.” And, but anyway, I got
my visa. The reason I bring that story up is, you know, fast forwarding 22 years, January of
1992, I’m at the mall. I was a Democrat, Senator Percy was a Republican. Very nice senator and
renowned and well-known from this area. We were at the mall in Washington for the swearing
in of President Clinton and we were sitting up in the front area. And I was there with my wife
and I realized that a couple rows behind us and not too far from us was Senator Percy sitting and
then I realized he was with his daughter. And I remember going up to him and telling him,
“Senator Percy, you have no clue who I am. And I met you one time back in 1979 and you
helped me get my visa converted.” And how grateful I am, and how much good you've done for
many people especially me, and how many employees I had at the time, about 200 people and
what that had meant to me and how it had changed my life, and how, you know, I had been able
to participate in the American process because of that. And here we were sitting right at the
ceremony of electing a, inaugurating a new president, and we were both equals sitting in the
same section where there were lots and lots of people behind, we were probably in the 20th row.
And I was very grateful to him and he was very gracious and shook my hand and sat down. I
went back to my wife and about 20 minutes later his daughter came up to us with her tears in her
eyes and said her dad was out there literally weeping how he had been so touched by what I had
said. And he had been out of office at that time may be 6-8 years, and how many people were
friendly to him only because of what he could do for them and how few had ever come back
after all these years, unknown to him, and to thank them and how much that meant to him on that
solemn day. Which was an important day to him too, even though it was another party. And she
came up and that meant a lot to her and to me and to all of us and we were all just kind of blown
away by what had happened. So that was just kind of a sidebar of, you don't appreciate that.
You know, no different than fast forwarding to Fred Kapala’s inauguration as a federal judge for
life and there was Judge Stanley Roszkowski who's our retired federal judge from here, Dan’s
father. You know I know his son Dan who’s an architect at Larson and Darby and I was, I so
desperately decided I wanted to vote in the 1991 election I guess it would be, when President
Clinton was running and John Cox was running and others were running from here, that I wanted
to, and they used to only have an immigration ceremony once a year in this area. There were so
few immigrants. So you applied for your thing and no matter when you got it you didn't become
an immigrant until the judge swore you in once a year. And Judge Roszkowski swore me in at a
private ceremony, so I could register to vote in time to be able to work for the election, in his
chambers and talked about his father coming from Poland and how important that was to his
father. And he shared with me his parents’ pictures and the flag that his father was given when
he got sworn in as a citizen. And how important that was to him and he gave me one, which I
still have, on that day and I met him and he's 80 plus years old. After, literally after 20, 15, 17
years, whatever since 1990, 1991, at Judge Kapala’s swearing in in the federal building after all
these years. So you know this is sort of weaving all these stories of immigration and getting
sworn in and how important, you know, that naturalization ceremony, which you know nobody
really thinks of, and the Daughters of the American Revolution. So I had my private ceremony
and then I went to the public one 3 - 4 months later which was also held at Memorial Hall and
the Daughters of the American Revolution gave us a little flag each and had a little reception
later on with coffee and cookies and stuff like that and my wife of course went to both of them
and it was just an incredible time. And John Cox who is a good friend came to the second one
and you know there was a congressman to come to congratulate us all. And you know these are
�things that the average kid in Rockford whose world is limited from Wisconsin Dells to
Woodfield Mall, who's never seen the world, who just takes this for granted, who doesn't know
what this American flag’s all about, leave alone its constitution or its capital or anything of that
type you know.
As an immigrant you have no idea how much you appreciate what this country has to offer and,
you know we, how open it is. People often talk about the various discriminations you know, sure
there's discrimination. I'm sure the Swedes felt it from the English, and the Irish felt it from the
English, and then the Italians came and they felt it, you know, and then the Poles came and they
felt it and of course the Indians came and after us the Lao, and, you know. The Laotians and the
Cambodians came and the Mexicans. There's always, that’s going to be, that's just part of the
process. What I can honestly tell you that if I, if my wife went to Bombay, my hometown where
I was born, and bought 20 blocks on the main drive of Bombay as an American she would
probably be discriminated against much more fiercely than I could ever even imagine being in
this country. It's the same, people don't like change, they don't like difference. You know it is
no different over there in India or anywhere else. Nobody likes, we wouldn't like somebody
from New York coming and buying 20 blocks over here leave alone from India! I mean that's
just human nature, that you know, your surrounding your neighborhood land is very dear. You
know, we come from the earth and that is very important to people. So immigration is not, you
know when people talk about discrimination it's all relative, it's all relative. We would do the
same. I am totally off-track from what you are talking about
HC: You're not actually. We’re getting to a point where I think that I’d like to ask this next
question.
SP: Yes.
HC: You had said at 13 you traveled and then you came over here at 17. From 13 to 17 what did
you do? How did you, did you have a job, what was your family businesses you said?
SP: The family was in the, they had some factories in the yarn and textile business, yarn and
thread and textile. It's an old family business. They’re still there. Four brothers like I said still
there, still part own most of the family businesses. After all these years my dad left it to all of us
equally. And I went to school and I used to train under my father, go to the office every evening.
And at age 16 in India you, actually it was 15 before I was even 16 years old, you passed 10th
grade and that's kind of the equivalent of what would be the British O levels and then they have
A levels. So in India the education system is 10 plus two plus three. So 10 you pass high school.
Two is kind of like a junior college. And then three is your actual degree so it's 15 years rather
than 16 years. So when I was 15, I passed 10th grade, I started working in a factory running one
of the family factories basically being an apprentice under one of the old managers who had
worked for the family for a long time and I did that and it was reasonably successful, but again I
couldn't make any decisions it was always a brother who was above me who would make those
decisions. And frankly I was just bored, I was just the rebel who was looking to get out and do it
on my own because I realized what I was doing was having very little impact because there were
too many layers that had to approve what I was going to try to accomplish so I just thought it was
time to move on and that's what I chose to do. But I lived at home with my family and collected
�stamps. I was quite, not only collected them but I worked for a dealer who you know, I would
sort them, and I would stay up at night. And I have to add that I still have my stamp collection
that besides my $142 my security blanket was my English and Indian, the old British, and Indian
stamp collections which was quite deep and just valued at about $4 or $5,000 back then.
Probably, I don't know how much, maybe $50,000 now and so I had, you know you couldn't take
any money out of the country either. So you know I had a little catalog, you know a little book
of stamps which I knew what the value was. But I made a lot of my money, you know, for my
travels and things like that by getting lots of lots of stamps, what they call them lots you know
maybe 20,000 of these from different eras and you sort through them and you know which one is
good and bad and what’s what and you literally spend hours and hours at night just kind of going
through them and sorting them and part of the deal with the dealer was who would buy them in
bulk and never had time to, he needed somebody with expertise, was you would get 10% of the
value of what you created as your own and you would get to keep them. So I did that I and I was
entrepreneurial in many ways back in India.
I was quite involved with student politics in India giving speeches to as many as 80,000 people at
one time too. I was a vice president of a National Student’s Union which was a student union
called ABVP, Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad, that was ABVP and they had a national
convention in Bangalore in I think ‘77 where I spoke. So I was very actively involved in politics
back then and then came here and just kind of got down to knitting.
It was working at PA Peterson home at the front desk, occasionally cleaning bedpans downstairs
but I worked there for 2 1/2 years at the front desk. Learned more from, frankly Swedish
immigrants, that was a place for Swedish immigrants. Mr. Arnquist, Ray Arnquist, …boy, I...
Mr. Carlson who had, was one of the cofounders of Rockford Products whose daughter still is
around. Dr. Swanson and his wife, his daughter's Mrs. Swanson. These were people who taught
me more than I could ever learn at any college they had lived the depression, they didn't just read
about it in a book, they had lived it, they had lost everything, moved into their garage and built it
again. They were wonderful people who had so much to share and so much knowledge and
wanted to talk and their families hardly visited them many of them. But I learned from, more
from them than from frankly any college or any professor could ever teach me. They were kind,
they were gentle, they had real life real experience. I must tell you that they were my family.
When I graduated from college they took a, you know we all got along very well. I was quite,
you know, got along well with them. I still have my suit downstairs in the basement. They, I
think it was a collective total of about $450 that they managed to raise when I graduated from
college. Since I was a foreign student I had no student loans. I couldn't have them I couldn't get
any aid or grants or loans or anything of the type so when I graduated I was truly free. I had a
1972 Monte Carlo which we paid $250 for and spent $400 in parts to get it going. I'll never
forget you know you had to lift up the coupe, you know, you had to lift up because the hinge, the
screw in the hinge was missing. My whole world fit in the back seat of my car when I left
college to go in and live at 2917A Halstead with three girls and me. We shared a townhouse in
Rockford. I got a job. But they had bought me two shirts, two ties, I don't have the shirts or ties,
and a blue suit from JCPenney. A pinstriped blue suit and $200. All that was 250 bucks and
they gave me $200 towards my first months rent deposit and that's how I started my life with the
help of those people.
�Rockford's been very kind to me. This was 1982 in the depth of the recession. Horrible horrible
time. We had 26 plus plus percent unemployment. If you think my accent is bad now you
should have tried it back them. And I got a job on 7th St as a straight commission stockbroker.
And you know imagine this 21-year-old pimple faced kid who's going to tell you in the middle of
the deepest recession, you know, Mr. Johnson give me all your money, I'm so smart I’ll invest it
for you. But I was very lucky. I knew a lot of people from PA Peterson home and I was very
fortunate to really be successful at that and so when I graduated from college I really had nothing
and moved in with some people I knew from college who wanted to share an apartment. It was
kind of an interesting experience. You know it was three girls and me. They had Three’s
Company back then as a TV show, we were Four’s company and we had a good time. Eating
pizza from Giuseppe’s.
I was dating a girl up in, at the time, who was going to school in Madison and life was so much
simpler. I mean literally $10, I hate to admit this, but $10 was all I had to spend on the weekend.
Gas money, I’d go up to Madison, we’d buy a case of Blatt’s light beer, $.99 bags of potato chips
from Logli’s which used to be on N. 2nd St back at that time and beer was cheaper in Illinois
than it was in Wisconsin for some reason. And we go up there and we would live off very little
money and lots of fun and happiness and smiles and bright sunshine. You know the sun was
shining in the middle of winter and we thought it was! And there was just nothing at that age to
worry about. The whole world was ahead of us and we just did everything we could to take it in.
HC: One of the questions I have for you and you just mentioned your accent is, your family, did
you speak English in India with your family?
SP: No, at home we spoke Hindi and Punjabi which is another Indian language, w Indian
languages. But at school we were taught English so I mean it wasn’t something we were very
fluent at but enough that you could certainly converse. I came to Rockford College and I spent
literally two years at the Learning Resource Center which was where they taught you
comprehension and remedial reading which were subjects that were taught to foreign students
and I took them all the way to the end. I think I still should have taken some more, I'm not very
fast at reading. My kids, my kid in second grade is faster than me, my kid in fifth grade is far
past me. My teacher is still around who I'm very proud to call my teacher and I honor her every
time I see her which is Mary Ann Wham. You know and she was my teacher who taught me
English at the Learning Resource Center and she is just a delightful wonderful lady and she was
the most prettiest lady I'd ever seen in my life. She was as perfect as could be from a picture and
she still is a beautiful lady. But she was just a doll. I mean she was just so gracious and kind to
us and so sweet to us and taught us patiently, all foreign students. And there were a lot of
foreign students at Rockford College at the time and we all played soccer...
HC: How many in your class?
SP: Well we had probably about 30 foreign students from probably 10 plus countries if not more.
There was only one other from India who was a friend of mine, Aneil Aurora, who is now
chairman of a big company in California, a big software company. He was CEO of Gateway
computers before this, a graduate from Rockford... so I came here on a whim and a prayer and
six months later I told Aneil who was my neighbor and good friend in India how the ropes were,
�you know how to get over here so six months later we got him to come here on a tourist visa and
got everything worked out for him and we graduated together, he was best man at my wedding, I
was best man at his wedding and he is doing very well with a thousand plus employees in Arlo
California, I just saw him a few weeks ago. Graduated from Rockford College and he's got two
little girls, so we both got married a year apart. Like I said I was best man at his wedding. But
Aneil came here and I had the system down so I just handed my jobs down to him you know and
it was just down the food chain you know and he would just hand over the next jobs... but we
both graduated the same day and, still a good friend after many many years.
HC: Well actually you have answered really most of the questions we have here except I do have
to ask you. Reflection, which is the last part of this... you had told us an earlier story of meeting
the president. I don't know if you would want to repeat that story that it's fabulous so. . .
SP: Good story.
HC: Were you... at a private meeting...
SP: Oh, oh you know, talking about citizenship, which is kind of, you know, very personal
private thing, many people become citizens right away. Some don't and I became a citizen in I
believe 1991. And so I could vote in the presidential election, or may be it was late 90 early
1991. It was, it was quite, you know quite an interesting experience. I talked about Judge
Roszkowski but anyway, fast forwarding to 2000. I had been close to President Clinton specially
relating to US Indian affairs, and Janine and I always asked him to visit India because at the time
President Clinton went to India in 2000 the last US president to visit the largest democracy in the
world, from the oldest democracy of the world, was President Jimmy Carter in 1978 when he
went to visit his mother who was a Peace Corps volunteer in India. So for 22 years we had not
visited India, a US president had not and then we wonder why we are misunderstood in this
world.
So I had been really pounding away on that and finally in the last year of his presidency
President Clinton decided to go to India and I was honored. It was truly an honor to be picked as
the only Indian American at that time, there was well over a couple, maybe, at least a million if
not more, a couple million Indians living in this country. People of Indian descent. And he asked
me to come advise him the day before. I went with him on the trip but the day before to the
White House and I'll never forget it was St. Patrick's Day because there were lots of Irish kids
waiting for a meeting to be done. They were waiting outside, they were having a ceremony and
so would've been March. So we, I'll never forget going to the White House we were in the
Roosevelt Room where he had several members of his cabinet and various callers from various
think tanks have been assembled to give him his last-minute advice on what his policy
statements were going to be in India etc. and I was certainly participating in that, the end of
which he asked me to wait and I was not quite sure if I'd said something out of line that I was
being asked to wait.
But I did. And Sandy Berger, Madeleine Albright, and John Podesta, that was his Chief of Staff,
and National Security Adviser and Secretary of State and him, they asked me if I could wait and
then they asked me to come into a door which was right next to the Roosevelt Room or the
�Cabinet room as they call it, which was the Oval Office and I'd been there a couple three times
before for a bill signing and I've seen the office and but this time it was me who was the center of
attention and I remember sinking into the couch, honest to goodness I thought I was on the floor,
and just holding onto the side of the couch because I was so scared of what was going on and
after the niceties were done President Clinton looked me right in the eye, right between my eyes,
and wanted to reinforce that I, and his words were “you are about to give advice to your
Commander in Chief, the President of your country,” and then he looked me right in the eyes and
asked me if I was a citizen? To which of course I responded I was and he asked me how long
and I said “Well I'd been a citizen at that point for about 10 years. That I had just recently felt
that I had truly embraced the country and become truly a citizen only three years prior to that and
then went on to explain to him that I was visiting India and my mother had sent me out on an
errand one-day in the middle of the afternoon, while I was coming back and not too far from the
family home was the state legislature in Maharashtra called [Setchavalia] and this was a place
where there was protest held quite often because of the center of politics and I was walking back
and I remember a demonstration of some kind going on and I always was curious about politics
and decided to walk right up to the front and try to figure out who they were demonstrating about
and that's when I saw the demonstrators put fire, light a fire to our American flag. It was an antiAmerican demonstration and seeing my flag burned in front of my eyes was the moment of
decision for me, it was the defining moment in my life about being an American citizen. I truly
felt that day that that was my flag, that was my home, my children, my country. America was
where they had given me everything I had, they had defended me, they had taught me everything
I knew at that time and that was my flag that had been burned and I never forget coming home
that day, you know, a few minutes later and telling my mother very emotionally that I was not
ever going to say I'd come home to India anymore because this wasn't home for me. My home
was in America and I was just coming to visit her and I truly became a citizen that day. After
relating the story quite emotionally even today as back then, the president I'll never forget looked
me right in the eye and said “Boy, Sunil, that's a story I would tell,” and laughed about it and he
did repeat it when he went on the trip to India. So that was kind of my day of reckoning so to
speak when I think I became an American citizen. Thank you.
HC: Well thank you.
SP: Thank you for taking the time. Sorry to make you wait.
HC: No not at all.
�
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Language
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English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Sunil Puri
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sunil Puri
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
July 19, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Sunil Puri was born in Bombay, India. He immigrated to the United States in 1979 and came to Rockford, Illinois soon after.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
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PDF Text
Text
Ebow Quansah
Interviewed November 17, 2007
by Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Ebow Quansah
Holli Connell: If you could state your first and last name.
Ebow Quansah: Okay my first name is Ebow and last name is Quansah.
HC: Sounds great.
EQ: Okay, Thank You.
HC: Okay. Are you married?
EQ: Yes I am married.
HC: Okay. Do you have any children?
EQ: I have two children, a 17-year-old daughter and a 12-year-old son.
HC: And what education do you have, an educational background?
EQ: I have been to Bible College and then also I have been to the Bradley University and I have
a bachelors degree in Christian education, and a Masters degree in biblical and divinity studies.
HC: Was all your schooling done here in the United States?
EQ: No. I, I did some of my schooling in Ghana which is the country I'm from originally and
then I did some of it here too in the US.
HC: Okay. How long have you been in the United States?
EQ: I've been in the United States on and off for, since 1976. I have gone back home and lived
and worked back home and then came back to the US.
HC: Great. Where exactly are you from, place and country of origin?
EQ: I'm from, my hometown is called Salt Pond in the Southern, South central part of Ghana,
Ghana is the name of country that I'm from.
HC: Okay. What did you do before you came to this country?
EQ: Before I came to this country I worked in a Christian bookstore in the capital city of my
home country, Ghana. The name of the capital city is Accra and I worked in a bookstore.
HC: What was your life like then?
�EQ: I, I was very active. I worked in the bookstore usually eight hours during the day Monday
through Friday. And I've forgotten exactly but I think I worked about four hours on Saturdays
also. And then in my free time I was part of a, of a youth organization and so that, those, those
two activities kept me busy.
HC: What made you want to come to the United States?
EQ: I wanted to come to the US, the main reason I came to the US was to further my education.
Or to get, I wanted to, the way it happened was I wanted to go to a school where I could get
education in Bible, Bible education or Bible training to get a good understanding of the Bible
and its teachings and eventually to be able to go back to my country, Ghana and teach over there.
HC: When did you decide to come?
EQ: It was in 1974 that I, actually it goes back a few years before that, probably 1972, 73. That
was when I started thinking seriously about coming to the US to study but it was 1976 that I was
able to come.
HC: How did you make the decision to come here? What led you to the decision to come here?
EQ: Okay. I happened to be at a conference in Switzerland in 1974 and I met, I met a man who
happened to be the president of a Bible College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and he and I
exchanged notes and I explained to him my interest in going to a Bible school, a Bible college
and getting training in Bible, getting Bible education and he, he encouraged me and he said, in
fact he put some information out about the school where he was the president and he encouraged
me to apply when I went back to my home country.
HC: How did you get to Rockford?
EQ: That's a long story but I was living in North Chicago which is actually a suburb of Chicago
and working for Motorola in cell phones, making cell phones and Motorola built a new facility in
Harvard, Illinois which is about 45 minutes drive from Rockford, east of Rockford. And it got to
the point where Motorola told us, the employees, I was working for Motorola in Libertyville,
Illinois and they asked some of us, the employees working at the Libertyville facility, that they
needed some employees who had had some experience working at Motorola to come and work at
the facility in Harvard and I volunteered to come to Harvard.
HC: And how long ago was that?
EQ: That was in 19, that was in 1999. In June of, June of 1999.
HC: Had you ever been to this country before you came in 1976?
EQ: No, I had not.
�HC: Okay. How long did it take you to make the arrangements to come here and what was
involved in doing so?
EQ: It took me, it took me about a year to make the arrangements to come. I was actually
offered, offered admission to the College in Grand Rapids Michigan in 1975. But at that time it
did not work out for me to come to the US in 1975 and so I wrote to the president of the College
and explained to him the situation I was facing and he agreed that I could come the following
year in 1976 so it took, took about a year. And naturally, at that time I did not have enough
money that I had saved on my own to come and train in the US and so within that year some
friends helped me with the funds to be able to come to the US.
HC: Did, did you come here alone or with any friends or other members of your family?
EQ: I came here alone.
HC: What was the journey if you could describe it, how you traveled, who you left and met and
as long or as brief as you'd like...
EQ: Okay. I came by plane, in other words I flew from the capital city which is Accra in Ghana
to New York City, the John F. Kennedy International Airport. And when, I believe I stopped, I
came on Alitalia flight on the airline Alitalia, which is actually an Italian airline. And so I came
through Rome, we had a stop in Rome. I've forgotten for how many years, probably, I mean for
how many hours, probably for about, maybe about six hours stopping in Rome. And then
continuing to New York City to the John F. Kennedy International Airport. And what was
helpful to me when I first came to the US was I had gotten to know some, I had made some
American friends. They had come to work as missionaries in Ghana, some years before from
1972 to 1974 and I had gotten to know them and become friends with them and so I wrote to
them, informed that I was coming to the US and it was my first time, I didn't know anybody and
so I asked them if they could meet me at the airport and help me get to where I needed to go and
they were very helpful. They came to meet me at the airport in New York.
HC: And did they bring it to school?
EQ: No what they did was one of my friends took me home. She lived in New Jersey and now
I've forgotten the name of the city, New Jersey, not far from Philadelphia in Pennsylvania. So
she took me home and I stayed with her and her parents for a few days, probably about three or
four days before I flew from... and then she took me to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania where I flew
from the airport in Philadelphia to Grand Rapids, Michigan.
HC: And then at that point at the school, how did you then transition into the school?
EQ: I had, I had written to the school and told them the date on which I would be arriving in the
US and the school had written to me and told me and given me information on when I arrived in
the US what to do, they had given me phone numbers of people to contact. I, if I remember
correctly it's been so many years I've forgotten all the details, but if I remember correctly the
president of the College gave me his name and phone number and so when I arrived at the airport
�in Grand Rapids, Michigan I called the president's house. It happened to be a Sunday and they
happened to be at church but one of his children happened to be at home and took my call and
she was the one who came to the airport to pick me up from the airport.
HC: Okay. Let’s see. Did you know anyone here in this country before you came?
EQ: I, as I said before I had met and gotten to know some Americans when I was in Ghana, who
had come to Ghana to live and work as missionaries and so I knew a few, about maybe three or
four people that I knew they had become friends of mine before I came to the US.
HC: Did any members of your family come here before or after you did?
EQ: I had two cousins that had. My mother's oldest sister had two, two of his children had come
to US years before me. One of them had gone to Canada to study in science and then after
hisstudies he'd come to, he gotten a teaching position in a university in the US and so he was
teaching in the US before. And then his younger brother had come to the US to join him. And so
I have those two cousins.
HC: Any after you?
EQ: After me, no.
HC: Where did you stay when you first arrived in Rockford?
EQ: When I first arrived in Rockford, actually in Rockford what happened was because I was
being transferred by Motorola, the company that I was working for in Libertyville, Illinois, they
had agreed, the Company had agreed to contribute towards my family and I being able to get a
house in Rockford. We happened to be, we happened to have a house in North Chicago where
we were staying before and we sold that house to, in order to move to Rockford. And so the,
what happened was we had enough equity in the house that we owned in North Chicago that it
helped us to be able to purchase another house in Rockford. And also the company Motorola
helped us.
HC: Nice.
EQ: Yes it really was.
HC: Let’s see. How did you find a place in Rockford to live? Did you go through steps with
realtors or a group of something like that...
EQ: Yes, we went through realtor. It happened that at the time Motorola asked me and other
employees of the company to transfer to Harvard, Illinois, My wife and I had, were planning on
moving from North Chicago and we had contacted a realtor to help us with that move or
transition. And so when the company offer, made the offer for me to move to Rockford instead
of moving elsewhere or leaving the company, the realtor who was helping us, he was
�instrumental in finding another realtor in Rockford who was very helpful for us locating a house
that we could buy.
HC: Right now is there anyone from your home country living in your immediate neighborhood?
EQ: In my immediate neighborhood, no.
HC: How about in your community?
EQ: In my community presently, no.
HC: Let’s see. When you arrived in. . . when you got here to the United States in 1976 and then
now you’re here, and you moved to Rockford in when again?
EQ: June of 1999.
HC: Within that time, did you have a visa or did you become a citizen during that time?
EQ: I had a visa. What I had was, they called a student visa and so that's what I had until, until
19... I'm trying to remember now... 1986 when I got married and my wife happens to be a US
citizen and then I was given what's called resident permit, or some people also refer to it as green
card. Yes.
HC: Are you a citizen now?
EQ: I'm not a citizen but I'm a permanent resident.
HC: Permanent resident, okay, thank you. Where do you see yourself in five years?
EQ: This is 2007. In five years, what I'd like to do, right now I have a Masters degree and I'm
interested in teaching at the college level. And I have been told by more than one source that it's
better if you have a doctorate degree if you want to teach at the college level. So, from, in five
years time what I'd like to do is get a doctorate degree to help me be able to get a teaching
position at a college.
HC: When you first came to the United States how did you get around vehicle wise?
EQ: I got around by asking some friends for a ride and so that's how I got around.
HC: Did you ever drive a car? At what point did you drive a car?
EQ: I started learning to drive in Ghana, my home country. I believe it was in 1973 when I
started learning to drive a car. And I started with a stick shift car, learning to drive stick shift and
that was difficult. And so it took me a long time it took me many years before I finally was able
to learn how to drive.
�HC: And how about in Rockford? How do you get around for transportation here?
EQ: In Rockford currently, I used to have a car, own a car, but presently I don't. For about a year
now I have not, I have not owned a car. And so during the summertime, spring and summertime
I use a bicycle to get around. And, but then during the winter time I take the bus.
HC: When you first came to Rockford in 1999, was it comfortable, were you comfortable in
town? Did you have, did it take very long to become comfortable in Rockford or not?
EQ: No actually, personally I, and I suspect my wife would probably say the same thing, that we,
I think we both really liked Rockford and I believe the reason is that we were living in North
Chicago where, and if you are familiar with Chicago and the housing, the way the houses are in
the Chicago area, the houses are close together and also there's a lot of development going on,
building and development going on most of the time. And so space is sort of cramped. And then
we came to Rockford in, it was actually in May of 1999 that we first came to Rockford to look
for housing and we found that Rockford is very spacious, in other words, there wasn't as much
building activity going on and there was a lot of empty spaces in Rockford and that was very
attractive to us, that was very refreshing for both my wife and I. And then also another thing we
discovered that made Rockford attractive to us was we found out, how prices of houses, we
found it very reasonable. And we were surprised because in the area where we were living in
North Chicago area, like a three-bedroom house was selling for around $120,000 and even that
was a reasonable amount. And then we came to Rockford and found out that you could get a
three-bedroom house here for about $90,000, and so we thought it was, the prices in Rockford
were very reasonable.
HC: Did you speak English upon arrival to the United States?
EQ: Yes I did.
HC: How did the knowledge of English affect you coming to a new country?
EQ: Actually my knowledge of English was very instrumental in my coming to the US because I
had to take a test in order for part of the admission process for getting into the college that I was
admitted to was that I will pass an English test. And it’s called test of English as a foreign
language. And so I had to take that test while I was in Ghana, and pass it with a good passing
grade before, as part of my admission process.
HC: What language do people speak in your country that you're from?
EQ: Okay. English is the official language in Ghana, and that's because, the reason why it is that
way is was we were colonized, Ghana was colonized by the British for many many years until
1957, just about 50 years ago when we obtained independence so we were granted independence
from Britain. And so the schooling system was put in place during, or the education system was
put in place, during the time of colonization by Britain and so English, English became the
official language in Ghana and it is still that way today.
�HC: Thank you. Did, when you came to United States, and specifically Rockford, did you and
your family attend churches or temples or anything religious?
EQ: Yes we did. Because, before we moved to Rockford we were part of a church in North
Chicago actually Waukegan. Waukegan and North Chicago are two cities that are, they are like
Twin Cities and there was a church in Waukegan that we, my wife and I and the children we
attended and so when we moved to Rockford we wanted to continue with that tradition.
HC: Are there other organizations that you belong to or work with here in the community?
EQ: Currently apart from church no, there's no other organization that I'm a part of, a member of.
HC: Are you active in politics or community action?
EQ: No I am not.
HC: How did it feel to come to the United States from a foreign country?
EQ: There are two parts to my answer to that. First it felt, when I first came to the US it felt,
right away it struck me that I had come to a different culture from the one that I had grown up
knowing and was comfortable with. So it took me awhile to, and what struck me was or what
happened to me, what occurred to me was, it would take time for me to adjust to a new or
different culture. So it, the impression right away was that this is a different place and a different
culture, a different way of looking at life that I had come to and it would take me time for me to
become familiar with the way things are done here.
HC: Did, how do people treat you when you arrived?
EQ: The reception that I got from people was good. My, in my, I was treated well.
HC: Did you ever feel unwelcomed by neighbors or employers or anybody in your community
when you came to Rockford?
EQ: Rockford, no, I didn't feel that way even though I was, both my family and I were cautioned
by some people to be careful. But no, we felt that people were welcoming to us.
HC: What did you think about this country before you came and have your ideas changed?
EQ: Yes certainly. Before I came to the US. . . OK, my experience, I had encountered as I said
before, I had encountered and gotten to know some American friends, some Americans. And it
happens that the Americans that I encountered mostly were Christians and who had come to live
and work in Ghana as missionaries. And one, one of the things that was told to me on a number
of occasions or said to me by those American friends was that America is a Christian nation.
And so when I had the opportunity to come to the US, I came with, with the mindset or the
outlook that, oh I'm going to a Christian nation and of course I had meanwhile, I had become a
Christian and believed in Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord. And so when I was coming to the
US I was very delighted and said to myself, I'm going to a Christian nation, from what I had been
�told. So I expected to come here and see people living the way Christians are supposed to live
and so I came with, with the mind that I wanted to come and see and learn from the way
Christianity should be practiced and, and I have to say that I was in a number of ways I was
disappointed when I got here and found out the truth for myself.
HC: Has your move here turned out like you thought?
EQ: To a large extent yes, it has. In other words, well, my main reason for coming to the US
was to get higher education or to get training in Bible education. And I have been able to achieve
that to a large extent and so my answer to that question is yes.
HC: What has been the best part?
EQ: The best part is, is coming to live in a different culture from the one that I grew up in, in
learning. I have to say I have learned so much from living, from coming to and living in the US
during the years that I have been in the US. I have to say my perspective on life has changed and
one of the things that struck me when I came to the US was to find out the liberties that
individuals have in the US, which of course is enshrined as I later I found out, enshrined in the
Constitution, individual liberties. And so I felt to give people the freedom to be who they wanted
to be and so that, that's one of the things I have cherished about American culture, or society.
HC: What's been the worst part?
EQ: Okay, the worst part has been being discriminated against because of my color, because I
happen to be an African. So that's been the worst part of, encountering some people who did not
like me because of my color, because of who I look like.
HC: What do you miss most about your former home?
EQ: When I first . . . probably, a number of things. . . but one of the, when I first came to the
US, I felt, one of the things I felt so acutely was the, and later on as I realized it’s a difference in
cultural perspective and that is, in Ghana where I'm from our culture is basically communitybased. In other words basically you look out for one another and also people are interested in
who you are, and especially your family members, in your welfare. When I came to the US one
of the things I found out right from the beginning was, here there are, here the emphasis is on the
individual and basically living your life as an individual and minding your own business as some
people might want to put it. Whereas in Ghana the culture I'm from, it’s community-based and
you find that there are other people who are interested in what's going on in your life and, not
everyone, but some, who are genuinely interested in what can I do to help, help you especially if
you are going through difficulty. And so when I came, first came to US I found those two views
clashed and that's where I felt acutely, it was difficult for me to make close friends, become close
friends with people because I found people were too busy living their own lives or doing the
things they wanted to get done, that it was difficult to get the attention that I felt I needed so I felt
lonesome, really lonesome for a long time.
�HC: I never really thought about that, individualism. Cause we talk a lot about communities and
stuff like that. Do you think you'll, excuse me, have you gone home to visit since you moved
here?
EQ: Yes I have done that on two different occasions, in fact I...
HC: And... I'm sorry... well I’ll just ask. What were your travels back for?
EQ: The first time I went back home to Ghana was after I had been in the US for about four
years and I missed, I missed my home country terribly and I wanted to, and I missed my parents
as well as my brothers and sisters who were all back in Ghana and so I wanted to go back home
and touch base with them again and that was after four years I have been in the US. And that
was the main reason why I went to Ghana. And then the second time was, that was in, the first
time was in ‘79 or ‘80. ‘80 rather. Second time was ‘87, 7 years after that. And the second time
I went to Ghana, I had gotten married in the US and my wife had not traveled outside the US
before and she had never been in Ghana because she is a US citizen. And I wanted to take her
with me to Ghana to visit for her to see what Ghana is like and for her to be my parents, my
brothers and sisters, my relatives.
HC: I bet that was fascinating, for both of you.
EQ: Yes, yes it really was.
HC: I'm sorry, were you going to say something on the end, sorry, before I interrupted?
EQ: I was going to say that we, we actually ended up living and working in Ghana both my wife
and I for a year and a half.
HC: Was that, at the time that you went to visit or did you go back?
EQ: We actually, for me it was actually going back and, and fortunately or thankfully my wife
was willing to live, to live and work with me in Ghana for that period of time.
HC: That's amazing. If you have children, which I think you said you did, what do you want
them to know about the culture of your homeland?
EQ: Everything. As much as possible I would like for them to know all there is to know about
the culture of my homeland or my home country. Unfortunately my children, I have not been
able to take my children to Ghana yet. I, it's something that I look forward to eventually being
able to do, because I would really like for them to see my home country where I grew up and
what it’s like.
HC: You think he'll spend the rest of your life here in this country?
EQ: No, I do not believe so because, the reason, or the main reason is because I believe that I,
I’m needed back in my home country, Ghnan. Or there is so much that I can do in my home
�country of Ghana that I look forward to eventually going back to Ghana, and living and working
there.
HC: Really the last question we’re at is, how do you feel about the current debate in this country
about immigration?
EQ: I have heard quite a bit about it in the news, I have not given it as much thought, but when I
came to the US in 1976 I was, I was and I still am, I was very grateful for the opportunity for me
to be able to come to the US and especially to go to college here because I, I believe that the
education that I did receive or have received from coming to the US and going to college here
has been good education. And so I was very, and there were, in fact the school gave me, even
though I had to work and pay some of the amount but, by and large I was given a scholarship,
and so there were a lot of people here in the US who contributed to make that possible and I'm
very very grateful for that. And so it's, it has been a positive experience.
HC: Great. That's it!
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Ebow Quansah
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ebow Quansah
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
November 17, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Ebow Quansah grew up in Ghana and immigrated to the United States in 1976.He has lived in Rockford, Illinois since 1999.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Gunnar Rahm
Interviewed July 24, 2007
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Gunnar Rahm
Holli Connell: Gunnar, just tell me your first and last name.
Gunnar Rahm: Gunnar Rahm.
HC: Are you married?
GR: Yes.
HC: Do you have any children?
GR: Three.
HC: And did you have any schooling here or in Sweden?
GR: Yes, I went to school for two years in Sweden and when I came to this country I didn't
speak a word of English in 1925.
HC: So did you go to school here as well?
GR: Oh yes, I graduated from high school in Rockford.
HC: Where do you work now or where did you work?
GR: I worked for Bartel Engineering for 31 years I think it was and then I went into business for
myself as a consultant for food packaging machinery.
HC: And are you retired now?
GR: Yes.
HC: Where are you from originally?
GR: Sweden.
HC: And the town?
GR: Jarvso Helsingland. That's 200 miles north of Stockholm.
HC: And when did you come to the United States from Sweden? What year?
GR: 1925.
HC: For deciding to come here what did you do before you came here?
�GR: Went to school.
HC: And how old were you?
GR: Seven.
HC: And was that how old you were when you came here?
GR: Right.
HC: What was your life like then?
GR: Well, my father had left for this country two years before we came. Of course we missed
him but I was very young.
HC: What made you want to come here? Some of these questions are geared to I know you were
a child so you could just say why your parents and stuff like that.
GR: Well my father came here and he wanted the rest of us.
HC: Did he decide to come to the United States and choose a location or was he specifically
coming to Rockford?
GR: He was not specifically coming to Rockford. He had an uncle in Minnesota and I think in
fact he did go there but there was no work for him. My father was in construction. He worked on
a lot of the buildings here in Rockford for many, many years.
HC: And then from Minnesota he made his way to Rockford?
GR: Yes.
HC: Had you ever been to this country before?
GR: No.
HC: Had your father?
GR: No.
HC: How long did it take to make the arrangements to come here and what was involved? Do
you have any memories of your mother maybe telling you this?
GR: I was pretty young. I was not involved.
HC: Do you know how you came over? Like how did you travel here?
�GR: Yes. We traveled by boat the name of the boat was (did not spell, check tape for name).
They had four or five liners. They were all from Sweden. At that time they were the fastest way
you could get across the Atlantic Ocean. It took seven days I remember.
HC: Did you come alone or did you come with family and friends?
GR: I came with family, my mother and two brothers.
HC: And did you stop or stay anywhere before coming to Rockford?
GR: The boat stopped in Canada and then we came to New York by boat and took the train from
New York to Chicago and then a train to Rockford from Chicago.
HC: Did your father and your family or your mother know anyone before they came here?
GR: No.
HC: When arriving here how did you settle in? Did your father have a home ready for you or
was there anyone once you got here that he was able to connect with to find living?
GR: If I remember right, the first night we stayed in a hotel on 7th St and then we rented an
apartment or a house, I don't remember exactly what and later my father bought us a home.
HC: And where was that located?
GR: Seventh Avenue between Eighth and 9th St.
HC: Were there other people that you met that were from your country in your community?
GR: Well there were a lot of Swedes on 7th St and we lived close to it and of course we had to
learn to speak English because the schools were not bilingual.
HC: Did you know anyone from your town once you got to Rockford?
GR: No.
HC: Did you go to school right away when you got here?
GR: We came here in the spring and in the fall we went to school.
HC: You said you spoke no English upon arrival. Did anyone in your family speak English?
GR: No.
HC: How did you learn to speak English?
�GR: Well, we learned from the kids in the neighborhood and then of course we started school in
the fall and I had to start over from grade 1 because I didn't speak the language and my parents,
well my father of course he was working, but they would go to the talkies, that's when talking
pictures started and my mother would not allow us to speak Swedish at home because that's how
she learned because we spoke English.
HC: Now I have had a few stories that in the home you would speak your native language and
only speak English outside so that's interesting.
GR: No, my mother she said the only way I could learn to speak English is if you would teach
me.
HC: Did your family integrate themselves in the community and by that question I mean did you
join clubs or community organizations or churches or anything like that?
GR: Well, I went to Sunday School at the Salvation Army. My parents were very good dancers.
My dad was an excellent dancer and they belonged to some of the Swedish clubs
HC: And when you went to school do you remember the name of the school?
GR: White School.
HB: And from there do you know what high school you went to?
GR: I went to Rockford High School. There was only one high school.
HC: How did it feel to come to a foreign country?
GR: Well I don't know. I know a lot of the people when we were crossing the ocean got sick and
my two brothers and I were about the only ones that went to breakfast in the mornings a lot of
times. We got to know all the people on board ship. We traveled all over the boat.
HC: How do people treat you when you arrived?
GR: Well one of the favorite things the kids would say is there goes that [Buckolee] (not spelled
listen to tape).
HC: So you had nickname?
GR: Yes.
HC: Were there any people you did or did not get along with your neighborhood? In terms of
because you were Swedish and didn't speak English were there any conflicts you were from
another country?
�GR: Not really because most of the people in that part of Rockford were Swedish descent or they
came from Sweden.
HC: What did you think of this country before you came? Had you been told about the United
States?
GR: Well I'm sure we were told about it. One of the main reasons my father came because his
uncle came to visit him and it was probably a year after that my father decided to come to the
United States.
HC: Has your move here turned out like you thought it would or maybe through your parents
eyes even you could answer that question?
GR: Well I think that I am probably the luckiest man alive. Here I am. I will be 91 years old
next week or Friday and I'm still alive and I had a very good job where I traveled all over the
world because I was an installation engineer and I've been there. In fact I even spent a month in
Moscow when it was communist and they treated us wonderful.
HC: Did you become a citizen right away when you've got here or did that happen later in your
life?
GR: It took us a while for my older brother and I after my father to get citizenship papers. Well
he didn't get them in time so my brother and I had to take out our own citizenship papers.
HC: How old were you then?
GR: Oh, 17, 18, something like that.
HC: And at that point while you were living here did your parents have to get a visa to travel
here or how did that work?
GR: There was a quota so many people from different countries. It was very much more relaxed
than it is now and I don't remember that we needed anything special. We had to go through
doctors so there were no diseases but that was about it.
HC: So it was about 10 years and then you went to get citizenship so you were about 17 or 18?
GR: Yes.
HC: And it at the same time your brother did as well?
GR: Yes
HC: Did your mother?
�GR: My father took out citizenship papers which made my mother a citizen. It still is that way
you know.
HC: Could you elaborate a little bit about the best part of moving here?
GR: Well she is sitting right over there.
HC: That would be your wife Carol?
GR: Yes. Like I said I am the luckiest man alive.
HC: What has been the hardest or most difficult part of moving here if anything?
GR: None.
HC: Do you miss anything about your former home?
GR: Well, about 30 years ago I was in Copenhagen Denmark and I contacted my aunt in Sweden
and I flew up there for Midsummer Day which is a big holiday in Sweden, well in all the
Scandinavian countries and I got a chance to visit my aunt and she had children the same age as I
was and I remember playing with some of them when we were kids and it was very interesting.
HC: You have gone back then for a visit is that more than once?
GR: No, well I've been in Sweden several times because of business and this house is still there.
HC: Is it in the family?
GR: No.
HC: Who built that home?
GR: I don't know; my father was a stonecutter and dynamiter from the old country and he
became a construction worker here like I said before. He was a labor supervisor at Lincoln
General High School, the Faust Hotel, the Coronado Theater, big buildings.
[Interviewer talks about her trip to the Coronado Theater].
GR: I went to the original opening of the Coronado Theater.
HC: Wow! Did you with your family?
GR: Yes.
HC: I bet that was beautiful.
�GR: It was. It still is.
Wife: Gunnar, tell her about taking lunch to your dad.
GR: Oh yeah, My dad was working long hours and it almost killed him but I went up and took
my mother made us supper because he was working late and they wouldn't allow what we did
because we went up the elevator when there were no walls and they were up on the top floor of
the Faust Hotel and we went and did that several times. We didn't go up that far every time but it
was interesting.
HC: So he was the project supervisor of these large buildings?
GR: Yes.
HC: What you like to do for fun?
GR: I like to read. I have a wood shop downstairs. I will show you some of the things I have
made. I love to read. We play cribbage after lunch every day and we try to do things that make
us think which I think is very important.
HC: What has been the most difficult thing to adjust to when moving from Sweden to here?
GR: Well I think the English language is one of the most difficult languages to learn. There are
words that are spelled the same but don't mean the same and they don't pronounce it the same.
It's like there are so many extra letters that the English language uses for instance the way I
spelled enough is “enuf” which makes sense I think.
HC: Yes it does. How do you feel about the current debate in this country about immigration and
immigrants?
GR: Well, I don't have, one thing we can’t do we have been screwing it up for years and this has
been going on forever and the Mexicans are not to blame because I remember talking to sailors
that were in this country illegally that came from different parts of the world because they
jumped ship and like I say this has been going on forever. Even though we do not have an
official language I think that if you want to live here you learn to speak English just like a
Mexican told me when I was in Mexico installing equipment; he says if you are going to be here
you learn the language which is the way it should be.
HC: Okay, well that’s it. Thank you.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Gunnar Rahm
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gunnar Rahm
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
July 24, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Gunnar Rahm was born in Sweden. He immigrated to the United States with his family at age 7 in 1925.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Rachel Salvagio
Interviewed August 8, 2007
By Holli Connell
Midway Village Museum
�Holli Connell: Could you please state your first and last name please.
Rachel Salvagio: My name is Rachel Salvagio. That is my married name, Salvagio. I was Rachel Lupo.
HC: Are you married?
RS: Widow.
HC: Do you have any children?
RS: Had two. One passed away many, many years ago and I have a son now.
HS: Educational background?
RS: High school and two years of college.
HS: And do you work now?
RS: I'm 85.
HC: Did you have past work?
RS: Yes, I was a bookkeeper for the Rockford Board of Education for many years.
HC: When did you come here?
RS: I was born in Rockford, raised in Rockford, have never left.
HC: Your parents then?
RS: My parents came here from Italy. They both went through Ellis Island and my mother came from, she went directly from Palermo to New
York then she went from New York to Chicago. And my father went from New York to Louisiana because in those days somebody had to
sponsor you and worry about whether you had food, there was no welfare somebody had to say yeah well, we'll feed her until she gets a job or
whatever and in both cases my mother had a married sister here. My father had brothers that had come previously but they lived in Louisiana.
HC: Were your parents married before they came here?
RS: No.
HC: Deciding to come, what did your parents do before they came here?
RS: They were in Italy. My mother was in [Combourgeaille]. My father was in [Mondreaille]. Well, I know he did a lot of landscaping and
garden work. I don't know enough more about my father. My mother was one of five sisters and each one of them had a job they had to do.
They didn't go to work but there was the father and one of the daughters that took care of all the gardening in the fields for their food and there
was the other one who did the cooking in the house and then another one would do some of the housework and things of that nature. I don't
remember what the younger one did. My mother was second from the youngest. She was the seamstress and her responsibility was to take care
of her father's clothes. She would sew his jackets and as a matter of fact when she came to the United States she went to work in that kind of a
factory where they made men's clothing but my father, all we knew was that he did garden type work. My mother talked a lot. My father didn't.
So we know more about my mother than we really know about my father except our life with him, nothing previous, see.
HC: What made them want to come here?
RS: Well, work. This I do know about my father, his brother sponsored him and said there is work here and besides that he had a strawberry farm
that he could work in however, my father, I'll finish with him, he didn't like the strawberry farm so then he had a cousin who had been in
Rockford for a long time and uncle Jack called him, wrote to him I can get you a job either in one of the factories or on the railroad if you want to
come here. My father hightailed for Rockford and never left again. Corresponded with his brothers but never left Rockford.
My mother, her story is a little different. In Italy, the custom there was that of the five sisters they were to marry the oldest first, and you know
down the line. Well, my mother still had two ahead of her and there was a suitor and of course they come and talked to the father and the father
says oh no, no you want one of the other ones you can have one but not her yet. She is not of age yet. My mother kind of liked that man that's
when she thought I'm not going to stand around and wait for somebody I don't like and that's when she corresponded with her sister and she
promised her if she would send her the money and everything she would go to work and pay her which she did. So her sister sent her the fare but
then she was only 14 1/2 years old. They could not come until they were, see I don't remember if it had to be 16 or 18. I don't remember what she
said but she lied. She got the passport with the age that they told her. You know they didn't look for birth certificates or any of that sort of thing.
Then there was the question of how or you can you go there. Women didn't travel alone but there was a man in the village who was a widower
and he had a daughter the age, she was the right age as my mother and so he spoke to my grandfather and he said why don't I take her with me
because I would like my daughter to have company. See the ships that they came in, they used to separate them. The men and women were not
on the same level. They didn't have what we now have on our cruise ships and everything. No, they had like dormitories my mother would
explain it and this was all women and men where ever up or down there were men and for that reason this man was worried about his daughter.
So this made it real nice that there were the two women. They didn't see him very often as they crossed the Atlantic because the men were
�always kept separate, see. And then she got here, she went through Ellis Island and in those days a few dollars you could buy almost anything.
Well they use to strip these immigrants for a physical and this man says they're not going to do that to these two girls you know. He paid
somebody off you know and they scooted them away and away they came they didn't have to strip. Oh yeah, all kinds of things happening. So
she boarded in Palermo. She came to New York and then from New York she went directly to Chicago where her sister called for her was and
then she found a job and she worked there and this one cousin that my mother had here in Rockford had been working with my father. He knew
he was a young single man and my father was a good-looking man and he says I'm going in to go in to see my cousins, come with me and so he
says okay and they went a couple of times and they treated him royally, like the Italian's always have a great big feast if somebody comes in that
you haven’t seen yesterday. And so he went two or three times and then Uncle Chris says, he says do you like Rosa? She’s single. So little by
little they maneuvered it somehow and my mother married him and then she married him and moved right to Rockford.
HC: What was the time frame that that marriage happened, that she met him?
RS: Do you mean between the time she arrived? Let's see, she got married in September. I believe they said it was around the holiday time,
yeah. I think it was around the holiday time so it was not that long but you know in those days you had the recommendation from an older one
and those fixed marriages, which lasted better than today's; you know were okay.
HC: You know how long, you were going to answer it but I asked it a different way, but how long from when she came to the United States until
she got married?
RS: Three years I believe she said.
HC: Now did her father approve the marriage because at her leaving were her older sisters married yet?
RS: Yeah, but see this was not in their country. This was here and he didn't, two things he wasn't sure what the custom was here and the other
thing his older daughter that was here said it's okay, that kind of thing.
HC: About what year was that that they were married?
RS: Probably 1915-1916.
HC: And they came over?
RS: Yeah, that my mother did. My father, I'm not really sure like I said mom talked all the time. My father went to work he says I don't have
time to talk.
HC: But you would probably think before her?
RS: Oh yeah he did come before because she was in Louisiana for maybe a year or even two years because he went through the strawberry farm
you know the time when the strawberry ripens and they had to pack it so he worked in Louisiana for a year or two and then he came here. So I
know that he got here before my mother.
HC: And why did they decide to come to Rockford instead of any other place in the United States?
RS: Well, my father came because he was called by one cousin of his and said that there was work here. Well then when my mother married him
that's how she came to Rockford.
HC: Had they ever been to this country before?
RS: No
HC: And did they come alone or with friends or members of their family?
RS: My father, I can't tell you for sure but I think he came alone because two of his brothers were already here so I think he came alone and of
course you know they would let the man go by themselves but that was not the thing you did with women. But like I told you my mother she
came with this friend of the family that was from the same town with, he was a widower, daughter and that was the companions the three of them
except when they got on the ship the women went here and the men went someplace else.
HC: Did they know anyone here before they came?
RS: Yes, family. Of course I say family but also different people from their same village would be here and they gathered like it was one big
family so it wasn't necessarily brothers and sisters: it was people from their village that had come and they would all welcome them every one of
them with open arms see.
HC: What kind of work did your parents do when they arrived here in Rockford?
RS: My father worked for the railroad for a little while and then went to work for J. I Case Company and worked there till the day he died and my
mother she worked as a seamstress in one of the factories in Chicago that made men's clothing because she was very good at that see and then
when she got married and moved to Rockford she never went to work.
HC: Part two is about your experiences so I'm going to ask you more about more stuff about you specifically. Where did you live growing up?
�RS: South Rockford.
HC: What was your home life like?
RS: Wonderful, wonderful, we had the best of all worlds. We were Americanized but yet Italian in the house.
HC: What was your neighborhood like?
RS: There again, all the Italians gathered in that area and it was wonderful and my mother did not have any brothers and sisters here. She did not
have any brothers at all and so these were the family. We were family with the neighbor next door, across the street, everything. Everyone
congregated in 1 yard sometimes and just talked and laughed and everything.
HC: What street did you live on?
RS: I lived on Morgan St. over by St. Anthony's Church and St. Anthony Church was the hub. Everybody was Catholic and everybody went to
St. Anthony's Church from that area I should say.
HC: Did your parents speak English before they arrived to the United States?
RS: No.
HC: If not, did they learn any after they arrived?
RS: After they arrived they learned a little bit both of them before they were married for their jobs but then after we were born my sister and I we
were the teachers. We went to school. When I went to kindergarten and first grade I spoke no English at all but the nuns, we had nuns, very
patient and they taught us how to speak English than I would get home, or my sister and we’d start to talk to my mother in Italian and she started
from day one no, no, no and we would look at her English, English. We had to talk English to her but she talked Italian to us. You talk about
preserving everything all of their ethnic values that was it. She knew how important it was to learn English and pretty soon my mother was real,
of course, in all fairness they both had what was a good education in those days in Italy. My mother went to the equivalent of the fifth grade and
that probably was as good as our high school here at that time and my dad got as far as the third grade so they both could read and write and so it
came a little bit easier for them to be.
HC: And also exposure from their past jobs.
RS: That's right they had at their past jobs but not the fluency that you would have in a conversation see.
HC: Was English your first language?
RS: No.
HC: And you spoke Italian up to kindergarten?
RS: Fully at home, absolutely.
HC: And then when you started kindergarten you were bilingual?
RS: Oh yes, and it didn't seem as hard. I don't remember it being hard at all. We didn't have any trouble you know what I mean but we did have
the nuns and I remember Sister [unintelligible] God rest her soul. She was the most patient person. She must have been because we were all
children of immigrants and didn't speak very good. Maybe a few of them did.
HC: Do you have sisters and brothers?
RS: I have one sister.
HC: Is she an older sister?
RS: She's younger.
HC: So you were the first one in kindergarten speaking English at home.
RS: I was a lawyer in the family.
HC: Would that influence your sister is so that when she started kindergarten.
RS: She spoke English then.
HC: So what language did your family speak at home?
RS: Italian. It was a Sicilian dialect because they came from Sicily.
�HC: And again you answered this one way but we’ll try another way. Did your parents encourage you to learn their native tongue or continue to
use it as if it were your first language?
RS: No, they wanted us to learn it and to remember it but not continue it as a first language.
HC: What languages spoken in the neighborhood?
RS: The kids all, we all spoke English after you know we got outside playing. That's another thing that helps young people you know is to be
with other children and you speak English. The grown ups, some of them spoke Italian to each other. Once in awhile they would put a word in
their in English you know and then my mother for one she would look at me and go okay like did I say the right word? She's saying it and she
doesn't know for sure they are understanding it. She might be saying something that was not right.
HC: How much schooling did your parents complete again?
RS: In Italy?
HC: Yes.
RS: My mother completed the equivalent of the fifth grade and I don't know how they judge those and my father, the third grade.
HC: And what were their attitudes about school and education?
RS: Oh, there was nothing coming before your homework, absolutely nothing.
HC: What emphasis did they place on your education?
RS: Very high. It was very high. It was necessary because they came here and they were not illiterate but they were because they were illiterate
to the ways of this country and they did not want us to have any of that. You learn everything there is to learn.
HC: Did you go to a private school or a public school?
RS: Went to a parochial school through the eighth grade and then public high school.
HC: What were the school's names?
RS: Rockford High School. That's what it used to be. Now it's gone. Now it’s East and West.
HC: Did you go to church or church school?
RS: Church school, St. Anthony's school, St. Anthony's parish.
HC: And what church you to go to?
RS: St. Anthony.
HC: Did you go to college?
RS: Two years.
HC: How important was that to your parents?
RS: Well, at the time it was expensive because it was depression time and so they thought can you manage if you just don't go on and then by the
same token I had gotten a job and helped out financially so I just dropped it but then later on my father sat there and said that you should have
finished, you should've kept going but you know when there was such a hardship for money and nobody had money and that.
HC: What year was that?
RS: 1941 or 42. In there.
HC: What college did you go to?
RS: Well first started out with Brown's Business College it was. I have to remember these old, they don't exist anymore and then I did some
coursework throughout the country and different colleges because I belonged to the National Association of Educational Secretaries and we
would use different conferences and then there was college courses that we took to, and so I accumulated quite a few.
HC: What was your first job?
RS: My first job was when I was 14 years old, against the law and it was they had in Rockford there was a furniture factory and they called it the
Illinois Cabinet and I went there and applied. But do I have to tell you the rest? I was 14 years old and of course they weren't hiring unless you
were 16. Well, I wrote it down as 16 and so that went along, this was summer work only because I was still going to school. I wrote it down and
�then one of the four ladies and several of us were sitting down eating lunch and I don't know how it came about but well my mother and dad they
got married in 1920. This one started to think. If you are born in 21 somewhere in there and she said oh , did you come before their wedding?
But you know it didn't hurt me for some reason because I went back the following summer and they hired me again, yeah.
HC: What did you do at the job?
RS: Oh, they had all kinds of jobs. Some of the ladies did buffing they would wax the furniture and there was a lot of hard work on that. They
didn't have the machines. The women were doing it you know and then when they did that then on the edges of the furniture you know that
would get white and I was a stripper. I would have to go around on that and strip it with a stain.
HC: Now how did your parents feel about your working?
RS: My father was not happy with my going into place in a factory and on top of it all I was working piece work and all he had a fit. He said that
will kill you. Piece work will kill you because he worked piece work all the time and so he knew what it was. My mother says I don't know why
you want to go to a factory that's not what you are going to go to school for.
HC: And why did you?
RS: Because there were jobs open. They were hiring, everybody. You know all of these people that were running in there they would get a job
and nobody else would hire you just for the summer, very few. They didn't have McDonald's at that time and that kind of thing so I went.
HC: So did you put the money towards the family then?
RS: Oh yeah.
HC: So it wasn't like really you are getting a job to be independent.
RS: The Italian girls were never independent.
HC: What other kinds of work did you do before you retired?
RS: Well, again I worked as a part timer as a clerk in Dixie’s Dress Store selling ladies ready to wear and then I was finished with my business
College and I worked in an insurance office and then I worked at Ropers, a factory that made stoves and everything but I was in the payroll
department there and we worked at the payroll you know with the computers, not the computers we didn't have computers, [Comptometry] and
then after that this job opening came up with the Rockford Board of Education and so I went to work more because I had the children and I got a
job in one of the schools and stayed home in the summertime. Yeah, then when they grew up I went to the downtown office and worked fulltime.
HC: What year did you retire?
RS: I've been retired I believe it was 1982.
HC: From the Rockford Board of Education?
RS: Yes
HC: Friends, family, community these are questions about both topics. Who were your friends growing up?
RS: Growing up, the neighbor girls, girls not too many boys. The neighbor people we went to the same schools. We were always together and so
they as a matter of fact I'm going to have lunch with them that we were together from kindergarten up and those friends, they’re friends. We still
see each other. We are still together.
HC: Were those kids like yourself, and parents from Italy?
RS: Not all of them. Some of them their parents were born in Louisiana and so they did not, your grandparents come before them. I guess
Louisiana was one of the places and Texas, lower Texas that a lot of them would come to because of the climate and the fact that they could work
in the fields see.
HC: Did you ever play or hang around or fight with kids from other for an ethnic groups or different ethnic groups?
RS: Yeah, played. We ha had a black family that lived of course some of kind of a kitty corner thing from our house and George Roger James
would come out and he would come out and we would play baseball. Used to be able to play football in the middle of the street you know and
we played with them all the time and then not too far down we had don't know what they were. They were Swedish, the Wagner's. There were
four children there and we all played together and we enjoyed each other's ethnic. Mrs. James used to make the best; she called them fried cakes,
They were donuts and you know in the summertime there was no air conditioning boy we made sure we played right there by her house. Soon as
they were ready she would come out with this plate of donuts for all of us Mrs. Wegner she made the best cakes you know. .
HC: How did you meet your friends?
RS: Well, like I said school and the neighborhood
�HC: How do you feel your parents accepted American culture?
RS: Oh they accepted it, absolutely.
HC: Where they open to new ways or did they prefer traditional ways of behaving?
RS: You did not do much dating when like now they’re kindergarten and they’re dating so to speak and there wasn't any of that. To go to the
school dances it was something to convince my father that we would like to go.
HC: Did you get to go?
RS: Most of the times we got to go.
HC: Did you ever disagree with your parents about things that you wanted to do or not to do, meaning things that you wanted to do that were
more Americanized or that you didn't want to do because they were traditional or from the culture?
RS: Well, really it was like the dating thing that was something I would want to do for instance and of course they still haven't gotten over this
business that you just don't but other than that we did the church things. Church would have dances in the hall and we were allowed to go there
but not with the date. You went there and dance or whatever.
HC: What about clothing or anything like that?
RS: No, my mother made all of our clothes, yeah, my mother made all of our clothes.
HC: Were you ever embarrassed by your parents because they were different?
RS: No.
HC: Did anyone pick on you for your parents being different?
RS: No.
HC: Were there any customs or superstitions or traditions or celebrations that your parents did in their home country that they brought and that
you celebrated or observed here in the United States?
RS: Sure, several of them. There was no Halloween but November 1 was the all Saints Day and as children you put your shoes by the door and
the Saints would bring you fruit or treats. The best at the family could afford and that if you are good but if you are bad, if you have been bad
you would find a chunk of coal in your shoes so that was the one thing and then Christmas. Our birthdays of course were just a family dinner.
There was no gifts at our young age but Christmas would come and we didn’t have a tree but they had the Nativity set and we would get up and
presents weren’t all wrapped or anything. We would find a doll or one little toy each but it was something they were doing here but I don't think
they did that in Italy.
HC: Christmas?
RS: Gift always, I mean to get presents.
HC: The tree?
RS: No they didn't the tree absolutely.
HC: Did you ever start doing your Christmas tree?
RS: Oh yeah, as we grew up I might've been a junior or sophomore in high school and we convinced my dad that we should have that. Okay,
who's going to go get it? We never had a car. I can't tell you where we got it or anything but in those days you would buy the lights you know
that if one burnt out they would all burn out. That's the only kind that they had. Well you know electricity was hard to pay for also so we would
turn that on and it was so wonderful. The minute we turned it on my father was sitting by the chair and you would unscrew bulb so that he could
conserve electricity. We finally got wise.
HC: Were there any other customs or traditions that you did here?
RS: All of the religious things like baptisms were very, something that you had a big party for baptism, communion, confirmation. You know
what was like you were going to have a big wedding. All the families and neighbors and everybody came.
HC: Any superstition? Did your mom or dad have some?
RS: My dad, no. If he did I don't really remember them. My mother, you know I remember she had some, I can't really tell you what it was it
might come to me. She would say something about somebody would look at you with an evil eye and you would get sick or something but you
know that was about it. It was like a warning to us really you know.
�HC: Would any of those things that we just talked about do you still observe them?
RS: Yes. Oh yes.
HC: Did your parents feel that it was important for you to remember your roots?
RS: My mother did because like I said she did a lot of talking and so she did tell us you know. There was story telling time and she would tell us
all of these things. My dad, once in a while he would put something in but not too much.
HC: As a young person did you have an interest in knowing their home country and customs?
RS: Not as much as I did later on.
HC: And if you are not interested then did you become interested in when you became older?
RS: Yes.
HC: And why?
RS: Maybe because I got to realize how rich our heritage was, but there was so much that we didn't understand as young people, see? And all the
different things that we do like all of church things that we would do and the holidays and everything. I grew to think that this was the richest
thing in the world, didn't have to have money for a lot of this you know and having gathering of people you know, this friends and family. I think
I learned to appreciate it a lot more.
HC: Are your children interested?
RS: Not probably as much as I because they grew up in a different environment completely.
HC: Did your parents ever go back to visit after they moved here?
RS: No.
HC: Did you ever go to your parent’s home country?
RS: Yes
HC: How many times?
RS: Twice.
HC: Do you have relatives that come to visit here?
RS: No.
HC: Do you keep in touch with relatives or friends outside of this country?
RS: No, not anymore. Note that, they have passed.
HC: Did you though?
RS: Yes my mother's, not her sister she had gone but her children so they would have been my first cousins in Italy and some that were in
England.
HC: How did you correspond? Letters?
RS: Letters, yeah.
HC: Did your parents encourage you to help other members of their family come to this country?
RS: No, they didn't do that anymore after my mother got here and when my father after he got here he only had one brother left in Italy and he
had had no desire to come.
HC: How close do you feel to your parent’s country of origin?
RS: Probably much closer than I ever thought I would be because of having been there and having first the background with my parents and all
that, having been there and seen the actual house that my mother was born in France since coming and don't and the way they lived and I was
lucky when I went there. There was a lady that lived across the street from where my mother lived and she cornered me and she says you are
from America she says in Italian and I says yeah and she says I played with your mother and so I had a nice conversation. Me with my broken
Italian. It was not that perfect you know and you lose it after a while, see and she told me all of the different things and a lot of that my mother
had talked about and this old lady you know had just brought it all to life again.
�HC: Did you go there while your parents were still alive?
RS: No.
HC: So it was after?
RS: Yeah.
HC: You mentioned that you went to where your mother lived did you still not know enough about your father?
RS: I went there but his name was Joseph Lupo so they all says to me go to the big church in [unintelligible] and you can find. And so I go to the
church and you know what our telephone book looks like? Okay, that's how it was; it was full of Lupos. I thought what do we do now? I found
a priest that was there and he says my dear lady I don't know. All I know is my father was Giuseppe. His mother was Raphaela, her father was
Salvador. So go down there was a whole mess of them. I couldn't find anybody. Now you wonder how children have such different names.
They don't stay with family names. They have like apple and pear. The firstborn in a marriage if it's a girl she's named after the husband's
mother. The first boy is named after his father. The mother gets her name down to the third child if it's a boy and a girl or if it's two girls they get
right down the line like that. They use the parent’s names. That's how Jasper you know St. Angel. Okay he's the second Jasper that I know of,
you know and he's got a son whose name is Frank. That's after his father. See he's carrying it on a little bit too. His family did. His grandfather
was a wonderful, wonderful man. He sponsored for my mother’s and my father’s both of their citizenship papers. Because you had to have
somebody. They didn't in those days just walk in the door and give you a flag and now you are an American citizen. I remember, I was what
five, not even five, could read and I had to sit and help them with their constitution because the judge would ask them questions on the
Constitution.
HC: And they became then citizens?
RS: They became citizens.
HC: And you were born here so you were already a citizen?
RS: Yes.
HC: What made them want to become citizens?
RS: This was their new land, their new home. It was important.
HC: Would you ever consider leaving this country to live back in Italy?
RS: No maam.
HC: This is the last area questions just a few reflections. Do you want your children or if you have grandchildren to know about the culture?
RS: I have just the one son and he has never married and yes he knows about it because he has to take his turn having holidays.
HC: What do you hope the most for your son's future?
RS: I just hope that he would continue to be a good citizen. He's had a good education and I just hope that he would pass on even though he
doesn't have children but he has nieces and nephews, cousins and that and pass on some of what he has learned from us.
HC: And the last question you can answer however comfortable would you feel about it how do you feel about the current debate in the country
about immigration right now?
RS: I think everybody has a right for a better life and that's fine. What I do object strenuously to is English as a second language. They are never
going to learn and then that's fine like I said maybe it's because of my own background that we had to teach them sort of and that was important
to my parents that they learned English and that's the part that I object to and the fact that they came on a quota. They did not just sneak in. They
couldn't there was no such thing. Of course I use my own parents as an example and that and I think that it's not just fair. We are good hard
workers and I know some of them and I know they are real good hard workers and I feel for them but I keep thinking why don't they learn more
about the English and the ways in this country so that they could be absorbed into it a little easier. But I think they should, I don't think we
should keep them out, no way. Everybody has a right but we want to keep our laws and everything intact.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Holli Connell
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Rachel Salvagio
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rachel Salvagio
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
August 8, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Rachel Salvagio was born in Rockford, Illinois. Her parents immigrated to the United States separately from Italy in the early 1910s.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
-
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PDF Text
Text
Linda Zuba
Interviewed by Megan Zuba
For Midway Village Museum
6/30/2007
�Note: The interviewer had difficulty with her microphone. Many of the questions are inaudible.
Linda Zuba: My name is Linda Zuba. I'm married. I have three children. I have a college
degree. I have a bachelor’s in nursing and a Masters degree in nursing and a law degree. I
work at a law firm with my husband Zuba and Associates. I work as a part-time attorney.
I've been there for six years. I am from . . . I live in Rockford, Illinois. I am originally
from Bogotá, Colombia and I came when I was four years old and that would have been
44 years ago. My, I came here with my mother and my sister. We lived in Bogotá,
Colombia. We had a very, very large extended family there and my mother worked part
time but she was mostly home with us.
And my mother and father separated and she wanted to come to the United States
because of the opportunities that it would provide for her two daughters. She had a cousin
and a sister living in California and she was willing to leave her family behind in
Colombia to make a new start. She left her family in Colombia to make a new start in
California and, but her goal was always to offer her two daughters an opportunity to
succeed in the United States. They, we went to California until I was close to 14 years old
and then we moved to Rockford and the reason we moved into Rockford in the early 70s
was because my sister married someone from the Rockford area and she wanted us to be
close to her when she started a family. So that's why we left California.
My mother had not been in this country before we came. I think I answered it was my
mother, my sister and myself that came here. We lived in California for 10 years before
moving to Rockford and in Rockford we knew, like I said, my sister and my brother-inlaw and they helped us get settled in.
Megan Zuba: Was there anyone else from Colombia in Rockford before you came? Or in
the United States?
LZ: Yes. There were. . .we met a few people actually. My brother-in-law's brother and
sister-in-law lived here and they were both from Colombia. And we met some people
from Colombia through an agency in town [Rockford] called La Voz Latina that helps
Hispanic individuals.
MZ: Where did you stay when you first got to Rockford?
LZ: We stayed with my sister and my brother-in-law.
MZ: Do you remember how you found a place to live at the house or did somebody help
you?
LZ: Well we always lived with them. My mom and myself always lived with my sister
and my brother-in-law and they had children. They started having children so my mother
helped them take care of the children and keep house and that was what was normal in
Colombia having the extended family.
MZ: What about work. Where did your mom work?
�LZ: For the most part she had, . . .as far as work, my mom did odds and ends and a lot of
different kinds of jobs but most of the time she was home taking care of my sister's kids
and myself. She had a day care at home. She also helped different agencies doing
different kind of jobs. But she tried staying at home as much as possible because she felt
very strongly about being present for me and being a stay-at-home mom as much as
possible.
MZ: [Didn’t you say you had to work]? [inaudible]
LZ: Yeah. I started working really young, probably about 14, because she never asked me
to but I just tried to help by working and contributing. I usually worked at restaurants. I
worked at [Sambos] in Loves Park for a long time.
MZ: [inaudible]
LZ: No, I would just drive to different places looking for jobs and I waitressed there for a
long time and then I started working at Logli when I was in high school as a cashier and I
worked there for several years.
MZ: So how did you get around? Did your mom have a car?
LZ: No, my mother or she never had a car but my brother-in-law let me use one of his
cars.
MZ: [She didn’t have a car?]
LZ: No, she didn't have a car. She never got a driver's license and so living in California
we were used to always taking buses and she took buses in Colombia so that was just. . .
MZ: [inaudible]
LZ: Well it wasn't easy because the bus systems in Rockford weren't very good and so it
was difficult getting around. So we were really dependent on my brother-in-law.
MZ: Did you walk a lot?
LZ: Yeah, we walked quite, a bit not as much as in California. But we did, I rode a bike
everywhere.
MZ: Did you speak English?
LZ: When we moved here, we didn't speak English, when we moved to this country and
then, but I wasn’t ever allowed to speak, my mom didn't want us to speak English around
the house once we learned because she didn't want us to forget the Spanish language so.
It didn't take long pick it up in school because everyone was speaking English. My mom
�took English classes and she had a very strong accent but she understood the language
and she could read and write it but she had a very strong accent so sometimes it was hard
to understand her.
MZ: How did you get in with the community?
LZ: In, well in Rockford? The way we integrated into our community, when we were in
California even though there were a lot of Americans in our neighborhood, I’d say mostly
Americans there were quite a few Hispanics at our school. We were at a Catholic school
and church and everyone was very accepting of us, of the Hispanic families, and when
we moved to Rockford, it was very different because there weren't many Hispanics and I
think I went to St. Peters at the end of eighth grade and I don't ever remember seeing any
other Hispanics there at the time. And at Boylan there might have been two Hispanics in
my class so it was different.
MZ: You went to high school at Boylan?
LZ: Yes, I did, I went to high school at Boylan and it was quite different than because
there were less Hispanics around so in a way people I think were more accepting of it
because it was kind of unusual on the other hand we kind of stuck out more. My mom
always spoke in Spanish in front of everyone so, and we ate different kinds of food. Most
people weren't used to the kind of food we ate and. . . What else do you want to know
about?
MZ: Did you belong to any organizations? Did you go to church?
LZ: Yes, we went to St. Peters Church, Catholic Church, we were Catholic and we did go
to church every Sunday. Those were, that was, we didn't belong to any other groups as a
family.
MZ: So are you active in politics in your community? [inaudible]
LZ: I'm active in other organizations now as we weren't when I was growing up but I am
very involved with La Voz Latina, a Hispanic Resource Center. I've been on their board
for probably close to 20 years and it's important for me because I know what it was like
coming here as an immigrant and all the kinds of help that we needed and so it's an
important organization for me to try to provide that type of help for other people who are
coming to this country. We just try to support programs to improve education with the
young kids. When I first belonged to La Voz Latina we were doing more job training for
the adults. We don't have grants for that right now but we do a lot of parenting classes
for, to help parents with their children and get them acclimated to the school systems.
I’ve done things related to health education for the Hispanic community and fitness
programs.
MZ: So back to when you first came here, did you fit in? How did you feel people treated
you? Did you feel any different?
�LZ: I was definitely felt different when we moved here because like I said I was the only
Hispanic of my friends and, you know, we just have different traditions.
MZ: What were your different traditions?
LZ: Probably the types of foods we had and it was, do you want to know specific foods
we ate? Well when we moved, things have changed a little bit because now you can find
a lot of the foods we ate, but we would always have plantains which is a form of banana
except you cook it. Mangoes and papayas.
MZ: They hadn't had those before?
LZ: Well they hadn't when we first moved here in the early 70s and people, friends used
to tease us a lot about the kinds of food we ate.
MZ: Joking around?
LZ: Yeah, I suppose joking around. But also, in Colombia extended families always lived
together and that wasn’t, that was normal for us and people kind of thought of it as being
unusual that my mom and I lived with my sister and brother-in-law and my nieces and
nephew.
MZ: Why did you live with all of them? [inaudible]
LZ: Well we all lived together because, well for one my mom pretty much did
everything. She cleaned and cooked and took care of my sister's children so that my sister
and brother-in-law could work. And so in many ways it was convenience but it was also,
just like I said, a very normal way of life.
MZ: [inaudible] to live with your family?
LZ: Yeah. It was normal to live with your family.
MZ: Did you feel unwelcome anywhere?
LZ: Oh, every now and then people would tease me. I would say, I don't look real
Hispanic. People thought I was Italian and so they just assumed I was Italian. But once
they found out I wasn't Italian then people would, they’d call me a Spic. You know
sometimes they. . .
MZ: [inaudible] [People at schools?]
LZ: People at school once they found out or anyone, anyone I would meet.
MZ: [How did that make you feel?]
�LZ: I didn't like it but I wasn't surprised because I just knew people like that and
especially teenagers can be mean. It didn't bother me as much if they said that to me or
were offensive to me if they said anything about my mom that was hurtful because I
remember them calling my mom a Spic.
MZ: How did your mom feel?
LZ: It didn't bother her at all, at least she never acted like it bothered her, because she
was, she was a very classy lady and she didn't have anything to be ashamed of. And so
she just felt it was their problem or their weakness for being unaccepting.
MZ: [inaudible]
LZ: I know my mother always planned on staying here the rest of her life. She really
missed her family and her sisters although a lot of family members moved to this country,
she had a brother and a cousin that move to Chicago. But she missed just the family life
in Colombia and, but she would never have left it was just, it was just easier to be
successful in this country and she would've never wanted to leave us. My mother was
never disappointed about coming here, moving here, she knew was the best thing she
ever did for us and Columbia can be very hard place to raise a family. Not everyone has
the opportunity to go on to university like we had the opportunity here and that's what,
education was extremely important for my mother. She wanted us to get the best kind of
education possible and I was always very fortunate when I was little living in California,
an older couple were very fond of us and they would, they met us at church and they
offered to pay my tuition at a Catholic school as long as I would come visit them on
Sundays or we, we would go over there after church on Sundays. And so they paid my
way through a good part of my Catholic schooling. And then we just got different help.
I’m just going to go through [may be looking at the list of interview questions and
answering them without them being read aloud?] . . . As far as work I helped, I
contributed by working at home. I worked at the restaurant or at Logli’s so I paid for a lot
of my own expenses to help out. And while I was at Boylan, Boylan helped my mom pay
for my tuition.
It was always important for my mother that we would remember our roots. She would
always talk to us about traditions in Colombia and family. In fact a lot of family members
would take turns flying out and staying with us for extended periods of time and again
that was just something that was accepted.
MZ: Did you do anything else culturally, besides eating other foods, did you do anything
else? [inaudible]
LZ: I can't really think of any specific things. Maybe a lot of the stories we read and we
read a lot of books that were traditional Colombian stories and I probably. . . for
Christmas we didn't believe in Santa Claus. There wasn't a Santa Claus. There is
�something called El Niño Dios which means the little . . . it was really baby Jesus was
responsible for gifts so it was odd. All my friends would be celebrating Christmas along
with the Santa Claus tradition but we didn't have that, we didn't do anything about the
Easter Bunny or Easter eggs and we didn't celebrate Thanksgiving for a long time
because that just wasn't part of what was Colombian heritage. And the music we listened
to a lot of Colombian music, you know, those types of things were different. When I was,
at some point in high school I didn't want anyone to know I was Hispanic or Colombian
because I didn't want to be considered different from anyone else and it wasn't until I
went to college that I started appreciating my roots and where I came from and I wasn’t, I
was no longer really embarrassed to speak Spanish whereas in high school, at some point
I became, I didn't want to speak Spanish. I didn't want to stand out as being different.
MZ: [Did you . . . like . . . American ways, like have you left any of your Columbian
heritage . . .?]
LZ: I think for the most part we tried being, I tried being bicultural as much, I mean I still
think a lot about what my mother said. I've tried to expose my kids to a lot of the foods
that we ate and, but I'm definitely Americanized. I've just been here too long. But I do
believe that the healthiest thing for a migrant is to become bicultural. Not forget their past
but keep the best of both worlds and I think that's what I've tried to do.
MZ: Like what? What do you really want to remember about your culture?
LZ: Well the connection with the family and the importance of always being there for
your family and . . . . my mother always said “Charity begins at home.” So I think it's,
I've always tried to keep my family very close and spend a lot of quality time together
because of the importance of that. Being affectionate. We always, we weren't allowed to
leave the house or go to bed without having kissed my mom and that was, I think that's
really important because you just never know when you may not see that person again.
And so that was something that I remember thinking was very different in my family is
we were extremely affectionate and, you know, in my 20s I could sit on my mom’s lap
you know and she would cuddle me and I wasn't, I didn't feel ashamed of it or, because
that was just the way it was. I don't see as much affection with the kids in the United
States. I may be wrong but I have never witnessed it to the degree that I have seen among
our culture so that’s something I’d always want to keep, telling your children as often as
possible that you love them and showing affection towards them.
You know, that’s something I miss with my relatives. We, both my mother and my father
are dead now so I was, saw extended family a lot more when they were alive and they
would come from Columbia and we would visit. We would have big picnics on Sundays
and my mom was always cooking up big meals. So that's changed. I have not, at some
point I'd like to go back to Columbia. I still have a lot of relatives there but I have some
scattered in California and in Florida.
I was, I do remember, I think I already said this, but I do remember being embarrassed
about my mother being different and, you know, it took her longer to assimilate. Like
�where she came from women would never wear slacks they always wore very nice
dresses or skirts and heels and she did that probably until I was close to the end of high
school, she finally started wearing pants and you would see her outside in a dress mowing
the lawn and I remember kids teasing me about that because they didn't understand why
she wouldn't wear pants but that was just, that was part of her culture and at the time I
thought it was different but she just felt it was proper etiquette to be, for a woman to be
dressed properly every day in a nice dress.
MZ: So your mom basically did everything because she didn't have a husband?
LZ: No, they separated when I was really little. I reconnected with him, with my father
years later. But, yeah she did everything and she would always tell people that she was
both father and the mother because she could be pretty stern. She never became
naturalized. She was, she did have a permanent resident, we were, we all had our green
cards when we came to the United States so we did go through all the paperwork and
when we received our green cards we came, which means you're a permanent resident,
that's when we move to this country. She would have liked to have become a citizen but
by the time she was thinking seriously about it she became ill and she ended up dying of
breast cancer, but she would have loved, she loved this country very much.
MZ: When did you become a citizen?
LZ: I actually became a citizen some time right after college. So probably sometime in
the 1980s.
MZ: How did you feel about that? Was that really important to you?
LZ: It, the only thing that made it important to me was to be able to vote, because I didn’t
feel that I was, I didn't feel there was anything not given to me or any opportunities I
couldn't have. I've had every opportunity during those years, but then I realized in college
I wasn't able to vote so. That was really the motivating factor for me to get my citizenship
and I also I was married by then. I was married to an American so part of me knew I
could stay here permanently but I did want to vote.
MZ: Do you have any good memories of growing up in Rockford or anything?
LZ: Well, Rockford was very different from, my only memories are California because I
came from Columbia to California when I was four. So I don't really have any specific
memories except for that of family in Columbia but, there was a pretty big difference in
California and Illinois and I, well Rockford was probably much more conservative when
I first moved here. It isn't as much now, but when I first came it was. I dressed very
different, I dressed more like people in California just whatever was in style in California
it took about six months or a year to come to Rockford so, I remember thinking that was
very unusual but I, California felt very fast-paced when I would go back there in the
summers to visit family. They just, it's just really a different lifestyle is more of, I'm sure
there are a lot of people who do well in school but the people I knew and family they just
�wanted to get out of high school so they could get good jobs and work, they wanted to
work hard, but they wanted to have fun it was more about having fun and enjoy, this is in
California, whereas the people, there were more people I knew in Rockford that were
more interested in going on to school and getting an advanced degree.
MZ: [Do you think that would be different than in Columbia?]
LZ: Well a lot of people, unless you're in the upper class you don't have the opportunity
to go to college because it’s Columbia, yes.
MZ: So you had a lot more opportunity in Rockford?
LZ: Yes. I think if you put your mind to it, you have, there are resources for people in the
United States to help you. If you want to go to college but you don't know what to do or
how to pay for it there are places you can go and talk to people. I didn’t, it was, I kind of
figured it all out by myself. It took a long time and people weren't offering to help me I
just kept, if one person didn't help I would go to somebody else or I would read, I was
just self-motivated that way but I definitely see how people can get lost in the system if
they don't have counselors at school or someone who's, who’s watching over them. A lot
of migrant parents can't help their kids because they don't know the system and they
don't, they don’t know what kind of suggestions to make. They say “Yeah, get an
education” but from there they don't usually know.
MZ: [Did your mom say that?]
LZ: My mom couldn't help. She wasn't able; she didn't know how to help me. She would
introduce me to people so she’d find out if there is someone out there who could maybe
answer questions but she didn't go to school here besides to learn English so she couldn't
help me sort through the system as far as how to go to school, and even what tests to take,
or what classes to take, financial aid, so I pretty much did that on my own. And I think a
lot of the migrants, immigrants that are coming now, if they're not self-motivated or if
they don't find the right people to help them they just kind of gave up. They don't get the
help at home.
MZ: How do you feel about the current debate about immigration?
LZ: Well, I think it's extremely complicated. I'm glad there's some kind of reform taking
place.
MZ: [What’s complicated about it?]
LZ: What’s complicated is what exactly should take place as far as immigration reform.
I'm glad there's talk and that there's some reform that they're trying to accomplish but
there’s. . . there's so many people that oppose, and probably one of the biggest things I
suppose is allowing the current illegal immigrants, giving them any kind of path to
citizenship, and a lot of people automatically assume that’s amnesty. And I guess I don't
�believe that’s amnesty. There are fines that would be given to these people. It wouldn't
be, they wouldn’t be citizens right away, they would have to go through several loopholes
before they got there but, these people are here to work, and they don't take, you know,
they don't come here to work off of, to live off of welfare, they come here to work. And I
know a lot of American companies and a lot of farmers who rely on immigrants to do
labor and a lot of the labor are, it’s labor that other groups don't want to do.
So, I think we do need to secure the border. I don't think it's right for people to just be
coming by the thousands and thousands every day crossing the border illegally. I think
Mexico should step up and do more about the illegal immigration. But I, I think
ultimately we need to be more accepting of the people that are coming and the
immigration debate has hurt really everyone, anyone who's and immigrant is affected by
it because people are angry and the anger ends up being directed at both legal and illegal
immigrants so its, and it causes a lot of division among the different cultures and races.
So it's got a long ways to go but I do think that we should have some kind of a, ability for
people to come here and work.
MZ: Do you think your personal experience has affected your opinion on this?
LZ: Well my, I suppose part of my personal experience. It was easier then, my mom
applied for a visa and then a green card and it didn't take all that long to get it, where as
now, you know, it can take you years and years before you'd ever be allowed to come
into this country if you want to come work or. So it has made it harder but it's the, for me
it's also a moral issue and I consider myself a Christian person and I have a hard time
believing that we could turn our eyes to people who are in such dire needs and so
desperately looking for a job, of which we do have many jobs for them, and it's hard for
me to turn my eyes to that and think, you know, we’re just sending them back to nothing.
They can't find jobs there, A lot of them have children and families that they're just trying
to support and I think that there should be some kind of system that it could be a win-win.
But there are some racial, I think there are, is some racism involved there also. And this
country’s made up of immigrants. But it's the same thing when the Irish and the Italians
were coming and the Jews, it was the same thing. They were mistreated. So it takes
awhile for the acceptance to take place.
MZ: So do you think you’ll be living in Rockford for the rest of your life?
LZ: I'll have some kind of connection in Rockford probably for the rest of my life. Our
job is here and we have family here and that's important. We probably will come and go a
lot as we get older, as our kids get older and go off to college. But we’ll always have
some connection, some home. Rockford will probably be our home base from whatever
else we end up doing. And I do think it’s a good community to raise your family,
although I’m, it's easy for me to say because I didn't have to put my kids through the
public school system and deal with all that, I, having children in a Catholic school where
I have more control of the kind of education they're having, in a way, and they don't have
to be bused to the other side of town and, it's a very sad statement when you think that
Hispanics and blacks have some of the lowest graduation rates in Rockford, then much
�higher than the national and state average, so. I think that's a very sad statement for
Rockford.
MZ: [Are you in any organizations right now to try to higher the rate?]
LZ: Well we, working with La Voz Latina, you know that’s, of the kids that are in the
youth programs at La Voz Latina, 98% of those kids do graduate from high school
because they have the extra support.
MZ: What do you do at La Voz Latina?
LZ: Like I said earlier, I’m on the board of directors at La Voz Latina and I've been on
the board there for a long time. But, also I'm on the board of United Way and we've
talked a lot about the importance of education in this community in United Way and one
of their priorities is to improve graduation rate. So you hear a lot in Rockford now about
truancy and what we found out is that, that’s, kids that are chronically truant often end up
dropping out, so a significant amount of money is being given to the truancy programs in
Rockford and, my involvement in United Way was, a lot of it has been surrounding it, the
issue of education and truancy.
MZ: Any last words?
LZ: Any last words. I'm glad to have been lucky enough that my mother was courageous
enough to leave her country, even though I know it was hard and I remember her crying a
lot as she thought about her mom and some of her sisters that she was real close to, that
she left back in Colombia, so I'm very, very lucky that she was willing to do that. She
sacrificed a lot in order to make a better life for her children. And not only having left
Columbia but I’m also extremely fortunate that she left California because, where I was
living in California and the friends I was hanging around with, although when I was with
them they were great kids and it was a great community, when I went back to visit in
high school most of my friends were involved in gangs, some had dropped out of high
school, one had gotten pregnant. And so I could've been right in the middle of that trap in
California had we not moved Rockford. So Rockford has been an incredible blessing for
me.
MZ: [inaudible]
LZ: Well there was more stability here. And there was, for whatever reason, the gang
involvement became a huge thing in the neighborhood that I was being raised in in
California and I got away from all that and had a much more stable life in Rockford and
there were more people, more of my friends, particularly my husband was more, his goal
was more getting a good education and I think when you are around people that are
interested in pursuing their goals and making something of themselves then, you know,
it's contagious, so I was doing the same thing. And had I been in California I might have
decided to do what my friends were all doing and get involved in gangs and drop out of
school so, so when I hear people sometimes complain about Rockford, you know, I think
�people can complain about any place that they're living nothing’s perfect but Rockford
does offer a lot of opportunities you just have to look for them and take advantage of it
and so I don't regret it for a moment that we ended up in Rockford, Illinois.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Many Faces, One Community: Rockford, Illinois' Stories of Immigration
Description
An account of the resource
In 2006-2009 Midway Village Museum undertook an oral history project to capture the stories of immigrants who have come to Rockford and contributed to the character of the community. First generation immigrants, as well as the children of immigrants were interviewed with grant support from the Institute of Library and Museum Services.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-2009
Rights
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Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Language
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English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Rockford, Illinois
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Digital Recording
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Megan Zuba
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Linda Zuba
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Linda Zuba
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
June 30, 2007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
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pdf
Type
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Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Linda Zuba immgrated to the United States from Bogotá, Colombia in 1963. She came to Rockford, Illinois around 1970.
Immigration
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.3a
Camp Ellsworth
Chicago Aug 14/60
Dear Mate
I recieved[sic] your letter yesterday and was glad to hear from home. you ask how I like camp
life I answer that I like it a great deal better than I expected Sunday we had a sermon in camp
and in the evening we had a prayer meeting we have commenced to hold prayer meeting in
camp at least twise[sic] a week on sunday[sic] and wednesday[sic] evenings except when we
have preaching sunday [sic] night on sunday[sic] night I was taken with the diaree[sic] which
about used me up monday I was coporal[sic] of the guard never the less my being sick but now I
feel nothing of my sickness I am much obliged to Geo. for my [pipe an] for my finances I am
[tetatally strape] my paying my own faire to Chicago but I guess I shall have to get along untill
[sic] I draw some
[page 2]
of my wages I went to city yesterday for the first time since I have been in camp I found mr
Thorn [folks] I spent most of the afternoon with Mrs Thorn which I found the whole family is
well Mrs Thorn sent her love to all especialy[sic] to Mother and Father I dont dont[sic] know as I
have much more to write since I wrote sunday[sic] If you can furnish me the address of Chas
Bartlet I should like it we have not [had] the chaplin[sic] as yet but expect to soon. give[sic] my
love to all, so good bye for the present
Your Affect Br [sic]
Chas Sealy
P.S. Be sure to direct to
Camp Ellsworth Co. G.
Care T.I. Hobert
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
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Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
Camp Ellsworth
Chicago Aug 14/60
Dear Mate
I recieved[sic] your letter yesterday and was glad to hear from home. you ask how I like camp life I answer that I like it a great deal better than I expected Sunday we had a sermon in camp and in the evening we had a prayer meeting we have commenced to hold prayer meeting in camp at least twise[sic] a week on sunday[sic] and wednesday[sic] evenings except when we have preaching sunday [sic] night on sunday[sic] night I was taken with the diaree[sic] which about used me up monday I was coporal[sic] of the guard never the less my being sick but now I feel nothing of my sickness I am much obliged to Geo. for my [pipe an] for my finances I am [tetatally strape] my paying my own faire to Chicago but I guess I shall have to get along untill [sic] I draw some
[page 2]
of my wages I went to city yesterday for the first time since I have been in camp I found mr Thorn [folks] I spent most of the afternoon with Mrs Thorn which I found the whole family is well Mrs Thorn sent her love to all especialy[sic] to Mother and Father I dont dont[sic] know as I have much more to write since I wrote sunday[sic] If you can furnish me the address of Chas Bartlet I should like it we have not [had] the chaplin[sic] as yet but expect to soon. give[sic] my love to all, so good bye for the present
Your Affect Br [sic]
Chas Sealy
P.S. Be sure to direct to
Camp Ellsworth Co. G.
Care T.I. Hobert
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Sealy to sister Mary Ann (Mate) Sealy, written August 14, 1860 in Camp Ellsworth, Chicago
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Sealy
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
August 14, 1860
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Type
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Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.3a
Camp Ellsworth
Charles Sealy
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.5a
Rolla Nov 24 1861
Dear Sister
The last two letters I wrote I have not as yet received a answer but yet I suppose I must write in
about an hour after I wrote the last letter from Springfield we were ordered to march we left
and marched to Wilson creeck [sic] about 19 miles. on[sic] Satturday[sic] and sunday we [strole]
around to Springfield after vissting[sic] the Battle grouny[sic] on which Gen Lyon was killed on
the 10th of Aug last. after we left the battle grounyd [sic] we camped by one of the best springs
that is in Missouri. the[sic] water came up out of a soled[sic] rock with a covering of rock of
about 20 feet square then after the water run about 15 or 20 rods and then sank in the earth
again it about paid me for traveling the 20 miles that I traveled to look at that
Page 2
spring. on[sic] the 12th we started for Rolla. there [sic] were nothing of interest transpired on
the road we past[sic] through Lebanon on a Tuesday morning we crosed[sic] the Gascunaid[sic]
on a bridge of wagons. in[sic] the afternoon we were wet through by the rain and if we waded
through one creeck[sic] we waded twenty and arrived in a camp about 4 o’clock and here we
have remained until now the next move that we make will be to St Louis which will be soon.
the[sic] boys feel rather provoaked[sic] for having to travel the distance we have and not
see[sic] a fight we have traveled about 300 miles a foot for nothing allmost [sic] now we have to
go where we started from but we do not know wether [sic] we stay in St Louis any lenth[sic] of
time or not we do not know but we rather think that we will go into Kentuckey[sic] but if we
stay in St Louis any length of time I shall try to come
Page 3
home on a furlough we expect soon to get our new uniform also a doubble[sic] blanket which
will add to our comforts wonderfully I suppose that Lill got the Letter that I wrote her from
Springfield if not write me in your next letter and I will write her the next letter I have been told
that the Regiment that Bert and Geo [George] is in are in St Louis if so write me so if they are in
the city when we get there I may find them If they are there when we get there I shall try to get
a transfer so that I shall be more to home give my love to all and write soon direct to Rolla
From Your Affectionate Bro Chas Sealy
US
N.W.B.R.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
Rolla Nov 24 1861
Dear Sister
The last two letters I wrote I have not as yet received a answer but yet I suppose I must write in about an hour after I wrote the last letter from Springfield we were ordered to march we left and marched to Wilson creeck [sic] about 19 miles. on[sic] Satturday[sic] and sunday we [strole] around to Springfield after vissting[sic] the Battle grouny[sic] on which Gen Lyon was killed on the 10th of Aug last. after we left the battle grounyd [sic] we camped by one of the best springs that is in Missouri. the[sic] water came up out of a soled[sic] rock with a covering of rock of about 20 feet square then after the water run about 15 or 20 rods and then sank in the earth again it about paid me for traveling the 20 miles that I traveled to look at that
Page 2
spring. on[sic] the 12th we started for Rolla. there [sic] were nothing of interest transpired on the road we past[sic] through Lebanon on a Tuesday morning we crosed[sic] the Gascunaid[sic] on a bridge of wagons. in[sic] the afternoon we were wet through by the rain and if we waded through one creeck[sic] we waded twenty and arrived in a camp about 4 o’clock and here we have remained until now the next move that we make will be to St Louis which will be soon. the[sic] boys feel rather provoaked[sic] for having to travel the distance we have and not see[sic] a fight we have traveled about 300 miles a foot for nothing allmost [sic] now we have to go where we started from but we do not know wether [sic] we stay in St Louis any lenth[sic] of time or not we do not know but we rather think that we will go into Kentuckey[sic] but if we stay in St Louis any length of time I shall try to come
Page 3
home on a furlough we expect soon to get our new uniform also a doubble[sic] blanket which will add to our comforts wonderfully I suppose that Lill got the Letter that I wrote her from Springfield if not write me in your next letter and I will write her the next letter I have been told that the Regiment that Bert and Geo [George] is in are in St Louis if so write me so if they are in the city when we get there I may find them If they are there when we get there I shall try to get a transfer so that I shall be more to home give my love to all and write soon direct to Rolla
From Your Affectionate Bro Chas Sealy
US
N.W.B.R.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.5a
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Sealy to his sister Mary Ann (Mate) Sealy written November 24, 1861 from Rolla, Missouri
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
November 24, 1861
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Sealy
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Charles Sealy
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
Rolla, Missouri
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2013.70.9
Camp Near Rolla Jan. 13th 1862
44 Regt. Ill. Vol.
Mrs. A.W. Woodard [sic]
I am requested by your brother to write you a few lines I am sorry to say he is now sick
in the hospital though not very bad. The Doctor says he has the Billious Fever but thinks he is in a fair
[way] to get along He appears in very good spirits and hopes to be out again soon.
He requested me to say that he received that express package sent to him The reason why he did not
send home any mony [sic] last pay-day was the Regiment had to settle for their clothing and much of
the mony [sic] was obtained. We will soon be paid off again and he wishes to know how he had better
send it. Whether by mail or by Express.
If he gets worse I will inform you by mail so you will know how he is.
Yours most respectively [sic],
G.M. [Innis]
Chaplain of Regt.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
Camp Near Rolla Jan. 13th 1862
44 Regt. Ill. Vol.
Mrs. A.W. Woodard [sic]
I am requested by your brother to write you a few lines I am sorry to say he is now sick in the hospital though not very bad. The Doctor says he has the Billious Fever but thinks he is in a fair [way] to get along He appears in very good spirits and hopes to be out again soon.
He requested me to say that he received that express package sent to him The reason why he did not send home any mony [sic] last pay-day was the Regiment had to settle for their clothing and much of the mony [sic] was obtained. We will soon be paid off again and he wishes to know how he had better send it. Whether by mail or by Express.
If he gets worse I will inform you by mail so you will know how he is.
Yours most respectively [sic],
G.M. [Innis]
Chaplain of Regt.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.9
Title
A name given to the resource
Chaplain of Charles Sealy's regiment to Charles's sister Mary Ann (Mate) Sealy Woodward on January 13, 1862 from near Rolla, Missouri
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
January 13, 1862
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Sealy
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Charles Sealy
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
Rolla, Missouri
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.7a
Rolla Jan 20 ‘62
Dear Sister,
The last letter that you received from me was written by our Chaplain I my self [sic] not being
able to write. I was taken about ten days ago with the Typhoid Fever with a skilful [sic] Dr. I am now fast
gaining the box you sent by the Major was thankfully received but I cannot eat nothing but chicken at
present but will be able to eat the remainder in a few days we have been expecting to move every day
now for the past two weeks but we have not made out as yet there is not more than 450 or 500 that is
able to march out of the regiment there is not much of interest that I can write so if I do not write you a
very long letter you must
Page 2
complain I should not be a bit surprised if this regiment would be discarged [sic] befour [sic] long there
is considerable excitement in camp about the Ill. 44th when we (are?) the N.W. R.R. I think it is rather
doubtful wether [sic] we get any [pay] until the question is settled and if we wait for that it will be the
first of March before we get any pay. do not direct any more letters to the Ill. 44th but to the N.W. R.R.
so good bye for the present write soon and oblige your
Affectionate Bro
Chas. Sealy
Rolla
Mi.
N.W.R.R.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
Rolla Jan 20 ‘62
Dear Sister,
The last letter that you received from me was written by our Chaplain I my self [sic] not being able to write. I was taken about ten days ago with the Typhoid Fever with a skilful [sic] Dr. I am now fast gaining the box you sent by the Major was thankfully received but I cannot eat nothing but chicken at present but will be able to eat the remainder in a few days we have been expecting to move every day now for the past two weeks but we have not made out as yet there is not more than 450 or 500 that is able to march out of the regiment there is not much of interest that I can write so if I do not write you a very long letter you must
Page 2
complain I should not be a bit surprised if this regiment would be discarged [sic] befour [sic] long there is considerable excitement in camp about the Ill. 44th when we (are?) the N.W. R.R. I think it is rather doubtful wether [sic] we get any [pay] until the question is settled and if we wait for that it will be the first of March before we get any pay. do not direct any more letters to the Ill. 44th but to the N.W. R.R. so good bye for the present write soon and oblige your
Affectionate Bro
Chas. Sealy
Rolla
Mi.
N.W.R.R.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.7a
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Sealy sent to his sister Mary Ann (Mate) Sealy Woodward on January 20, 1862 from Rolla, Missouri
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
January 20, 1862
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Sealy
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Charles Sealy
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
Rolla, Missouri
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.6a
Rolla Feb [3] 1862
Dear Sister
Excuse me for not writing last week as I did not feel able to write since I last wrote I have not
gained much I have been in the hospital ever since and am likely to be the regiment started for
Springfield yesterday morning leaving about 45 besides myself at rolla to recruit [sic] our
health. It is not very likely that we shall see the regiment again very soon as the talk is of their
puting[sic] us in as cooks and waiters as soon as we are able if they should do that my wages
would raised [sic] to 25¢ a day besides my $10 a month which will amount to about $20 a
month which will be pretty good pay I hope that the union men will catch old Price so that we
will not have to travel around in Mo the whole year I rather think that they will catch
page 2
him this time I dare not hardly tell you how we fare now we have been here now a week
tomorrow and I hardly know where I would’nt [sic] rather be than be in the Barracks that we
are in we have had no wood half of the time no water until we raised a fuss a bout [sic] it now
we have to[sic] things as waiters but we have to put up with them we have but two meals a day
one in the morning about nine o’clock consisting of dry bread and coffee and in the afternoon
about four we beef soup beens[sic] dry bread boiled pork and beef just such food as a well man
ought to have we have nothing that a sick man ought to have but never mind it will not last
long we shall fare better by and by but change the subject good times coming war coming to a
close boys all coming home the girl will have a good time then you stated in your last letter that
Nelly Berry was enquirering[sic] after me it makes the
page 3
third or fourth time that I have had similar news if any more of the girls enquire after me you
can tell them where I am and then that I should like to hear from them. Tell Miss Berry that if
she is very is [sic] or feels very interested in my wellfare[sic] that she may write tell her that my
correspondance[sic] is so great that I can not[sic] hardly find time to open the correspondence
but if she wishes to open the correspondence I will try to keep it up but am not very
peticular[sic] about it. what[sic] is the reason that Bert and Lilly has[sic] not answered my last
letter both of them recieved[sic] a letter from me last I hope that they will soon write me I have
written all that I can think of now be sure to write every week wether I write you or not so good
by for the present I will try to write at once a week so good bye
From your Affectionate Bro
Chas Sealy P.S. direct the same as before and oblige
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
Rolla Feb [3] 1862
Dear Sister
Excuse me for not writing last week as I did not feel able to write since I last wrote I have not gained much I have been in the hospital ever since and am likely to be the regiment started for Springfield yesterday morning leaving about 45 besides myself at rolla to recruit [sic] our health. It is not very likely that we shall see the regiment again very soon as the talk is of their puting[sic] us in as cooks and waiters as soon as we are able if they should do that my wages would raised [sic] to 25¢ a day besides my $10 a month which will amount to about $20 a month which will be pretty good pay I hope that the union men will catch old Price so that we will not have to travel around in Mo the whole year I rather think that they will catch
page 2
him this time I dare not hardly tell you how we fare now we have been here now a week tomorrow and I hardly know where I would’nt [sic] rather be than be in the Barracks that we are in we have had no wood half of the time no water until we raised a fuss a bout [sic] it now we have to[sic] things as waiters but we have to put up with them we have but two meals a day one in the morning about nine o’clock consisting of dry bread and coffee and in the afternoon about four we beef soup beens[sic] dry bread boiled pork and beef just such food as a well man ought to have we have nothing that a sick man ought to have but never mind it will not last long we shall fare better by and by but change the subject good times coming war coming to a close boys all coming home the girl will have a good time then you stated in your last letter that Nelly Berry was enquirering[sic] after me it makes the
page 3
third or fourth time that I have had similar news if any more of the girls enquire after me you can tell them where I am and then that I should like to hear from them. Tell Miss Berry that if she is very is [sic] or feels very interested in my wellfare[sic] that she may write tell her that my correspondance[sic] is so great that I can not[sic] hardly find time to open the correspondence but if she wishes to open the correspondence I will try to keep it up but am not very peticular[sic] about it. what[sic] is the reason that Bert and Lilly has[sic] not answered my last letter both of them recieved[sic] a letter from me last I hope that they will soon write me I have written all that I can think of now be sure to write every week wether I write you or not so good by for the present I will try to write at once a week so good bye
From your Affectionate Bro
Chas Sealy P.S. direct the same as before and oblige
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.6a
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Sealy to sister Mary Ann (Mate) Sealy Woodward sent on February 2, 1862 from Rolla, Missouri
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
February 2, 1862
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Sealy
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Charles Sealy
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
Rolla, Missouri
-
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.11
Camp at Cape Girardau [sic]
May 22 1862
Dear Sister
Excuse me for not writing before but I have not had time; the last letter I believe was [written] I wrote at
Springfield; we laid at springfield 7 days and then we were on the road for 21 days before we reached the
regiment on the road we got short of rations once or twice on the road so that we had to shoot a hog or two for
meat but that did not last long we passed [sic] through salem, & West Planes we traveled some [300] miles to
ketch [sic] the regiment and have traveled 200 miles since and only had about 3 days rest & over took the
regiment at Batesville Aks. the next day after I reached Batesville we were ordered to Little Rock Aks and
traveled 7 miles and then ordered back to Cape [Girardaeu] we were on the road 40 days avarging [sic] 20 miles
a day in the 20 days we passed through several [seceed] towns on our way to the Cape and our [Leuit.] Col. who
had the command of the regiment if we saw any thing in the towns that we passed through to take it but there
were no [jayhawking] done as they saw nothing that they [wanted] the boys are complaining about the rations
that they
Page 2
drawed after the battle of [pea ridge] but I have had rations enough until to-day then we drew shorts instead of
flour but that will not last long tonight we will draw either flour or crackers we shall soon be on our way down
the river as we expect to go down in a day or two on the 5th of the month at Greenville of this state we saw a
number of nigro girles [sic] in the field plowing corn if Slavery has come to that I say farewell to Slavery I hope
that this war will emancipate every Slave that is in the U.S. there is one thing certin [sic] that is if the 44th goes
down the river the Secesh will be shure [sic] to be whipt [sic] because the 44th will come out victorious so I hope
that I may come across the 45th there some where down the river you accused me wrongfully when you accused
me of not writing to Mr. Daugherty when I sent him the money I owed him as I sent the money by express and a
letter by mail on the 11th of April both on the same day so if the letter was detained it was not my my [sic] fault
if you will ask Mr. Daugherty the date of my letter he will tell you same I knew as soon as I opened his letter
that my letter been delayed but I suppose it is all write [sic] now you thought that I should not get off very strait
[sic] with my [doing] my duty at Rolla never fear for me when I am on duty, there was no more notice taken of
us
Page 3
when they found out the circumstances of the case than though it had never happened [sic] you must excuse
me if I do not write once a week as I may not be able to write as often but if I can write once a week if I can the
next letter I write I must write to [Geneva] I have written all I can think of no [sic] so good bye for the present
direct to the 44th Reg. Ill. Vol. St. Louis in the field so good bye for the present
From your Affectionate
Brother,
Chas. Sealy
44th Reg. Ill. Vol
In the Field
St. Louis
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
Camp at Cape Girardau [sic]
May 22 1862
Dear Sister
Excuse me for not writing before but I have not had time; the last letter I believe was [written] I wrote at Springfield; we laid at springfield 7 days and then we were on the road for 21 days before we reached the regiment on the road we got short of rations once or twice on the road so that we had to shoot a hog or two for meat but that did not last long we passed [sic] through salem, & West Planes we traveled some [300] miles to ketch [sic] the regiment and have traveled 200 miles since and only had about 3 days rest & over took the regiment at Batesville Aks. the next day after I reached Batesville we were ordered to Little Rock Aks and traveled 7 miles and then ordered back to Cape [Girardaeu] we were on the road 40 days avarging [sic] 20 miles a day in the 20 days we passed through several [seceed] towns on our way to the Cape and our [Leuit.] Col. who had the command of the regiment if we saw any thing in the towns that we passed through to take it but there were no [jayhawking] done as they saw nothing that they [wanted] the boys are complaining about the rations that they
Page 2
drawed after the battle of [pea ridge] but I have had rations enough until to-day then we drew shorts instead of flour but that will not last long tonight we will draw either flour or crackers we shall soon be on our way down the river as we expect to go down in a day or two on the 5th of the month at Greenville of this state we saw a number of nigro girles [sic] in the field plowing corn if Slavery has come to that I say farewell to Slavery I hope that this war will emancipate every Slave that is in the U.S. there is one thing certin [sic] that is if the 44th goes down the river the Secesh will be shure [sic] to be whipt [sic] because the 44th will come out victorious so I hope that I may come across the 45th there some where down the river you accused me wrongfully when you accused me of not writing to Mr. Daugherty when I sent him the money I owed him as I sent the money by express and a letter by mail on the 11th of April both on the same day so if the letter was detained it was not my my [sic] fault if you will ask Mr. Daugherty the date of my letter he will tell you same I knew as soon as I opened his letter that my letter been delayed but I suppose it is all write [sic] now you thought that I should not get off very strait [sic] with my [doing] my duty at Rolla never fear for me when I am on duty, there was no more notice taken of us
Page 3
when they found out the circumstances of the case than though it had never happened [sic] you must excuse me if I do not write once a week as I may not be able to write as often but if I can write once a week if I can the next letter I write I must write to [Geneva] I have written all I can think of no [sic] so good bye for the present direct to the 44th Reg. Ill. Vol. St. Louis in the field so good bye for the present
From your Affectionate
Brother,
Chas. Sealy
44th Reg. Ill. Vol
In the Field St. Louis
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.11a
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Sealy to his sister Mary Ann (Mate) Sealy Woodward on March 22, 1862 while in the field camped at Cape Girardeau, Missouri
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 22, 1862
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Sealy
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Cape Girardeau Missouri
Charles Sealy
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
-
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.8
Camp near Boonville
June 8th 1862
Dear Sister
The last letter I wrote you was written at Cape Girardau to which I have not received an answer
to as yet. the same day that I wrote you last we embarked on the Mettropolitan [sic] for Hamburg
landing 8 miles above Pittsburg Landing we were Three days on the river we laid at the Landing some
two days then moved towards Correnth we went about 1 ½ miles from Correnth laid there one day and
two nights and then ordered to march a gain we marched within 8 or 10 miles of of [sic] the present
place and then laid there three days after which we moved to the present place yesterday we received
orders that we were to be on the reserve which will not very likely fetch us in a fight unless we get
whiped [sic] and they retreat to us and that we aint very likely to be right a way [sic] I have enquired
after the 45th and as far as I can find out they keep about 4 or 5 miles in advance of us all the time so I
hardly think that I shall see Bert or Geo until after the fight we are keeping as close to the enemy as we
possible can [sic] our pickets are with in speaking distance of theirs all the time. We do not have quite so
hard marches to make as we did in Missouri and Arkansas but the marches are just about as tiresome as
we have to go so slow when we do march we do not get so good water here as we did in the states we
just left but I like the looks of country a great better there is a great deal of timber here but what
farming
Page 2
land there is it is good corn here looks well I have seen from a foot to fifteen inches high and it is stout
and healthy we shall soon begin to live on new wheat as they have cut a great deal of their wheat here
they do not have to wait until cold weather before they cut their wheat here plums are almost ripe so
near ripe that they make very good sauce pits as formed in the peaches and I have saw [sic] some
almost ripe they do not only make men plow corn here in this country but the women I have seen
several cases of women plowing some a week ago to day I saw Capt. Boyd and [Chas. Baske] of the 52d
Reg. Ill. Vol and also Bryan Clark Elders Clark son the past week he is in the 36 Reg. Ill. Vol. he stated that
he had a letter from stating that Leuit. [Brainard] was shot if that is the report at Rockford it is false for
he is with his company and in good health I have told all the news that I can think of now so excuse this
short letter as I wish to write one to Geneva to-day ell Lillie that I will write her soon. So good bye for
the present. Please to direct to Chas. Sealy
Co. G. 44th Reg. Ill. Vol
In the field
Cairo
From Your Affectionate
Brother
Chas. Sealy
Camp near Boonfield
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
Camp near Boonville
June 8th 1862
Dear Sister
The last letter I wrote you was written at Cape Girardau to which I have not received an answer to as yet. the same day that I wrote you last we embarked on the Mettropolitan [sic] for Hamburg landing 8 miles above Pittsburg Landing we were Three days on the river we laid at the Landing some two days then moved towards Correnth we went about 1 ½ miles from Correnth laid there one day and two nights and then ordered to march a gain we marched within 8 or 10 miles of of [sic] the present place and then laid there three days after which we moved to the present place yesterday we received orders that we were to be on the reserve which will not very likely fetch us in a fight unless we get whiped [sic] and they retreat to us and that we aint very likely to be right a way [sic] I have enquired after the 45th and as far as I can find out they keep about 4 or 5 miles in advance of us all the time so I hardly think that I shall see Bert or Geo until after the fight we are keeping as close to the enemy as we possible can [sic] our pickets are with in speaking distance of theirs all the time. We do not have quite so hard marches to make as we did in Missouri and Arkansas but the marches are just about as tiresome as we have to go so slow when we do march we do not get so good water here as we did in the states we just left but I like the looks of country a great better there is a great deal of timber here but what farming
Page 2
land there is it is good corn here looks well I have seen from a foot to fifteen inches high and it is stout and healthy we shall soon begin to live on new wheat as they have cut a great deal of their wheat here they do not have to wait until cold weather before they cut their wheat here plums are almost ripe so near ripe that they make very good sauce pits as formed in the peaches and I have saw [sic] some almost ripe they do not only make men plow corn here in this country but the women I have seen several cases of women plowing some a week ago to day I saw Capt. Boyd and [Chas. Baske] of the 52d Reg. Ill. Vol and also Bryan Clark Elders Clark son the past week he is in the 36 Reg. Ill. Vol. he stated that he had a letter from stating that Leuit. [Brainard] was shot if that is the report at Rockford it is false for he is with his company and in good health I have told all the news that I can think of now so excuse this short letter as I wish to write one to Geneva to-day ell Lillie that I will write her soon. So good bye for the present. Please to direct to Chas. Sealy
Co. G. 44th Reg. Ill. Vol
In the field Cairo
From Your Affectionate
Brother
Chas. Sealy Camp near Boonfield
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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2013.70.8
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Sealy to his sister Mary Ann (Mate) Sealy Woodward while camped near Bloomfield, Missouri on June 8, 1862
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
June 8, 1862
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Sealy
Format
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jpeg
pdf
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Bloomfield Missouri
Charles Sealy
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.4a
Camp Rienza[sic] Miss.
Aug 27 1862
Dear Sister
I recieved[sic] your letter of the 5th on the 25th of the present month and was glad to hear from
you and Walter I should of recieved[sic] it a week ago and answered it at the same time had I
not of been at the landing some 25 miles from here on fatigue duty I was there some two
weeks so you see that I am excuseable[sic] for not writing before we had some exciteing[sic]
times at the landing while we were there. thier[sic] was some eight or ten boats came up the
river while we were there and all of them fired into and the last one that was
[page 2]
loaded with comissary[sic] goods and had two barges of hay with her and she was fired into and
she had to cut the barges loose so as to escape she came to the landing and got two field
peices[sic] and 200 Infintry[sic] and [returners] and on sunday[sic] last she came back with
some 50 prisioners[sic] and L. Capt. and a Major. They were [grusellius] and I think that it will go
hard with them. last[sic] evening there was a small battle about six miles from here and the
results I have not heard as yet but I think we came out victorious. I am sorry that mother is sick
so long I think if she had had Dr Dayton in the first place her hand would of been well long
before this tell Lillie that she must hurry
[page 3]
and get well so as not to put off her wedding in Oct as the time well[sic] soon fly round if she
does not get married this time I think she will never be married as for my health it is good so far
I wish that I had the reciept[sic] of that medicien[sic] that the Dr let me have when I left, as I am
all most of my throat when cold wether[sic] comes but let the worst come I think that I can
stand it but if I cannot there is that one alternative and that is a discharged[sic] but I hope that I
shall be able to see the thing through I recieved[sic] a letter from Bert and George a few weeks
a go[sic] and I have answered Geo’s but have not found time to answer Berts[sic] as yet has
Rockford turned out any more field offierces[sic] yet she out to out[sic] a few
[page 4]
more I wonder if I could not get a parish if I should get a discharge but it is about time that I
should close give my respects to all inquireing[sic] friends and Also[sic] to Mother and Father
�you wished me to give you the Brigade and the Divsion[sic] we are in Asbaths Brigade and the 5
Division Direct the same as before in the other respect write soon.
From your Affectionate Bro
Chas Sealy
Co. G. 44 Reg Ill. Vol.
Asbaths Brigade 5 Division
(care of C. Knobledoff) Army of the Miss in the field
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
Camp Rienza[sic] Miss.
Aug 27 1862
Dear Sister
I recieved[sic] your letter of the 5th on the 25th of the present month and was glad to hear from you and Walter I should of recieved[sic] it a week ago and answered it at the same time had I not of been at the landing some 25 miles from here on fatigue duty I was there some two weeks so you see that I am excuseable[sic] for not writing before we had some exciteing[sic] times at the landing while we were there. thier[sic] was some eight or ten boats came up the river while we were there and all of them fired into and the last one that was
[page 2]
loaded with comissary[sic] goods and had two barges of hay with her and she was fired into and she had to cut the barges loose so as to escape she came to the landing and got two field peices[sic] and 200 Infintry[sic] and [returners] and on sunday[sic] last she came back with some 50 prisioners[sic] and L. Capt. and a Major. They were [grusellius] and I think that it will go hard with them. last[sic] evening there was a small battle about six miles from here and the results I have not heard as yet but I think we came out victorious. I am sorry that mother is sick so long I think if she had had Dr Dayton in the first place her hand would of been well long before this tell Lillie that she must hurry
[page 3]
and get well so as not to put off her wedding in Oct as the time well[sic] soon fly round if she does not get married this time I think she will never be married as for my health it is good so far I wish that I had the reciept[sic] of that medicien[sic] that the Dr let me have when I left, as I am all most of my throat when cold wether[sic] comes but let the worst come I think that I can stand it but if I cannot there is that one alternative and that is a discharged[sic] but I hope that I shall be able to see the thing through I recieved[sic] a letter from Bert and George a few weeks a go[sic] and I have answered Geo’s but have not found time to answer Berts[sic] as yet has Rockford turned out any more field offierces[sic] yet she out to out[sic] a few
[page 4]
more I wonder if I could not get a parish if I should get a discharge but it is about time that I should close give my respects to all inquireing[sic] friends and Also[sic] to Mother and Father you wished me to give you the Brigade and the Divsion[sic] we are in Asbaths Brigade and the 5 Division Direct the same as before in the other respect write soon.
From your Affectionate Bro
Chas Sealy
Co. G. 44 Reg Ill. Vol.
Asbaths Brigade 5 Division
(care of C. Knobledoff) Army of the Miss in the field
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.4a
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Sealy to sister Mary Ann (Mate) Sealy Woodward on August 27, 1862 from Camp Kienga
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
August 27, 1862
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Sealy
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Charles Sealy
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.2
Camp at Covington Ky Sept 12/62
Dear Sister
Excuse me for not writing to you be fore[sic] as we have been busy ever since I last wrote you
and you must excuse this short letter for this time as we are now in the line of battle now find I
have not much time to spare we left [Rienzo] last saturday[sic] morning and arrived night
before last I am in good health now so do not fear of me on that [ground] do not write until you
hear from me again my love to all
[page 2]
so good by for the present
From Chas Sealy
Covington
Ky
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
Camp at Coving-
ton Ky Sept 12/62
Dear Sister
Excuse me for not writing to you be fore[sic] as we have been busy ever since I last wrote you and you must excuse this short letter for this time as we are now in the line of battle now find I have not much time to spare we left [Rienzo] last saturday[sic] morning and arrived night before last I am in good health now so do not fear of me on that [ground] do not write until you hear from me again my love to all
Page 2
so good by for the present
From Chas Sealy
Covington
Ky
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.2
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Sealy to sister Mary Sealy, written September 12, 1862 at Camp Covington, Kentucky
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
September 12, 1862
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Sealy
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Camp Covington Kentucky
Charles Sealy
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
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PDF Text
Text
2013.70.10
Camp Big Dick Creek
Oct 16th 1862
Dear Sister
Excuse me for not writing before but I hardly know as I had out [sic] to ask forgiveness as I have
not heard from you except through Mr. Miller since I left Covington but let pass as I have but little time I
can not spend much time on lecturing you Since I left Louisville which was on the 1st of the month we
have been on the march every day since and had one fight which was on the 8th. We were in the
engagement twice during the day and I came out with out a scratch the peticulars [sic] of the battle I can
not give you as I have not time and as time is short I must close excuse my writing with pencil as we had
to leave our knapsacks at Louisville and my paper pen and ink were with it. but it will not be long I shall
be able to give you a better account of the battle and our [march] than now my love to all [engineering
friends?] the 74th has been with us since the 1st
Direct as before [&c]
Your affectionate
Bro
Chas Sealy
Co. G 44th Reg. Ill. Vol.
(Care Capt Saben)
Gen Sheridans Division
Ky
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Description
An account of the resource
The Bittle Civil War Letter Collection includes letters written between 1861 and 1865 by brothers Robert (Bert), George and Charles Sealy, their sister Mary, and another relative, Christopher T. Dunham.
The Sealy siblings - Charles, George, Robert, and Mary Ann - were all born in Castle Cary, Somersetshire, England to Richard Sealy and Maria Louisa Champion Sealy. The family moved to Rochester, New York around 1843, finally settling in Rockford, Illinois in 1855.
When the Civil War arrived, Charles Sealy enlisted in the Company G 44th Regiment of the Illinois Infantry from Winnebago County. Meanwhile George and Robert Sealy each enlisted in the Company G 45th Illinois Volunteers. Charles was injured and eventually captured during the battle of Chickamauga. He was taken to Andersonville Prison where he died June 10, 1864.
Robert and George Sealy were present at the Battle and Fall of Vicksburg and survived to see the end of the war and beyond. George returned to Rockford, Illinois and worked for Emerson, Talcott & Co. He died in 1909. Robert moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1868. He died in 1888.
Christopher T. Dunham (connected to the Sealy family through his daughter’s marriage), lived in Freeport, Illinois starting in 1856 and worked as county surveyor. He enlisted in the 11th Illinois Regiment of the Union Army and served on and off throughout the Civil War. He and Sarah Cummings married in 1862. After the war he returned to his surveying work in Freeport, but was admitted to the Elgin Insane Asylum in 1872 where he died 6 years later.
The letters speak of their experiences serving in the army, of their camp sites, and plans, and are a record of the confusion and stress families back home felt during this time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1861-1865
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Title
A name given to the resource
Bittle Civil War Letter Collection
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Letter
Text
Any textual data included in the document
Camp Big Dick Creek
Oct 16th 1862
Dear Sister
Excuse me for not writing before but I hardly know as I had out [sic] to ask forgiveness as I have not heard from you except through Mr. Miller since I left Covington but let pass as I have but little time I can not spend much time on lecturing you Since I left Louisville which was on the 1st of the month we have been on the march every day since and had one fight which was on the 8th. We were in the engagement twice during the day and I came out with out a scratch the peticulars [sic] of the battle I can not give you as I have not time and as time is short I must close excuse my writing with pencil as we had to leave our knapsacks at Louisville and my paper pen and ink were with it. but it will not be long I shall be able to give you a better account of the battle and our [march] than now my love to all [engineering friends?] the 74th has been with us since the 1st
Direct as before [&c]
Your affectionate
Bro
Chas Sealy
Co. G 44th Reg. Ill. Vol.
(Care Capt Saben) Gen Sheridans Division
Ky
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2013.70.10
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Sealy to his sister Mary Ann (Mate) Sealy Woodward on October 16, 1862
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
October 16, 1862
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Sealy
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
pdf
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Charles Sealy
Civil War 1861-1865
Correspondence
Mary Ann Sealy Woodward
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois -- History
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seventh Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business district and neighborhood of Seventh Street in Rockford, Illinois. From the late 1800s well into the 1900s the Seventh Street neighborhood was the center of Rockford's Swedish community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1930
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
7th St. after Fire, Aug. 2 -08
Description
An account of the resource
People milling in street; Seventh St. Clothing Co. far left; "Dick Yates for Governor" banner over street
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1908
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
76.208.31
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
7th Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
Seventh Street
Seventh Street Clothing Company
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seventh Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business district and neighborhood of Seventh Street in Rockford, Illinois. From the late 1800s well into the 1900s the Seventh Street neighborhood was the center of Rockford's Swedish community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1930
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
People's Pharmacy
Description
An account of the resource
View of outside and inside store, S. E. corner 7th St. and 3rd Ave., A. E. Freburg, proprietor.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Fergason Post Card Co.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1925
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
81.136.166
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
7th Street
Midway Village Museum
People's Pharmacy
Rockford, Illinois
Seventh Street
-
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6f8d2ced8d8650a7e6e08198182b870e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seventh Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business district and neighborhood of Seventh Street in Rockford, Illinois. From the late 1800s well into the 1900s the Seventh Street neighborhood was the center of Rockford's Swedish community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1930
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.25" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rockford Seventh Street Fair
Description
An account of the resource
Street scene with vendors; September 20-25, 1915; "Compliments of The Register-Gazette, Rockford's Greatest Newspaper."
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1915
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109.758
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
7th Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
Seventh Street
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seventh Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business district and neighborhood of Seventh Street in Rockford, Illinois. From the late 1800s well into the 1900s the Seventh Street neighborhood was the center of Rockford's Swedish community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1930
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
7th Street, 500 block, looking south
Description
An account of the resource
Street scene with Boston Clothing House far right.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1908
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109.763
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
7th Street
Boston Clothing House
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
Seventh Street
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seventh Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business district and neighborhood of Seventh Street in Rockford, Illinois. From the late 1800s well into the 1900s the Seventh Street neighborhood was the center of Rockford's Swedish community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1930
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.25" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
7th Street view
Description
An account of the resource
Looking down on street from telephone pole height.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1920
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109.766
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
7th Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
Seventh Street
-
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87e378c6f73fcc473e7b0ab3e4ec07fe
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seventh Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business district and neighborhood of Seventh Street in Rockford, Illinois. From the late 1800s well into the 1900s the Seventh Street neighborhood was the center of Rockford's Swedish community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1930
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.25" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
200 or 300 block, 7th Street
Description
An account of the resource
View from building top with street car.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1920
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109.767
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
7th Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
Seventh Street
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seventh Street, Rockford, Illinois
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of postcard views depicting the business district and neighborhood of Seventh Street in Rockford, Illinois. From the late 1800s well into the 1900s the Seventh Street neighborhood was the center of Rockford's Swedish community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1900-1930
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Postcard
Physical Dimensions
The actual physical size of the original image
3.5" x 5.5"
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seventh St., Looking South, Rockford, Ill.
Description
An account of the resource
Colorized street scene; postmarked Aug. 31 to Mr. K. J. Lundgren
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1909
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Midway Village Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
jpeg
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
85.109.768
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Still Image
7th Street
Midway Village Museum
Rockford, Illinois
Seventh Street